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Too Blessed to Stress with Alli Hoff Kosik · The Read Carpet Report

• Kirsten Baritz: Hi Ali. Alli: got this. Hi, how are you? It's so good to see you. Thank you for having me. Kirsten Baritz: Thanks for being on here as one of our, as our first actual like full author segment. Yeah, you are. Alli: I'm honored. Like what an experience. It's funny because when we talked about doing this, you were like, I don't know when we're going to have guests on. Like we're figuring it out. And it hasn't been that long. So you should give yourself some credit for figuring it out. And I am so happy to be here. I love the show. I actually just finished reading a book that you all recommended on this very podcast and I loved it. So consider me a fan. I just read In Her Defense, which was one of the Reese picks that you talked about. Kirsten Baritz: Which book? Yeah. Alli: I loved it. I gave it five stars, which I don't do very often, and I've been telling everyone about it. Kirsten Baritz: And especially for a thriller, it was actually, it was really well done. And thrillers aren't often like five star material. Alli: Yeah, because I don't read lot of thrillers. Yeah, I thought it was great. thought it was like it's been a long time since I read a great courtroom drama. ⁓ And so I loved that. I loved the, course, like the influencer commentary, the online commentary. I thought the friendship story was beautiful and the writing about Europe. I just loved it. So, you know, listeners, add that to your TBR if you haven't yet. Kirsten Baritz: Mm-hmm. to the Red Carpet Report, your backstage pass to celebrity book clubs, book adaptations, and upcoming releases. I'm Kirsten. And I'm Jackie. And we're your hosts. Jackie: And I'm Jackie. And we're your hosts. Today's episode a special interview with our friend and brand new Ali Hoffkosik. And we are going to be talking to her about her new book, Too Blast to Stress. But before we get into that, we have the red carpet rundown. Kirsten Baritz: Today's episode is a special interview with our friend and brand new author, Ali Hofkosik. And we are going to be talking to her about her new book, Too Less to Stress. But before we get into that, we have the red carpet rundown. why you tell us a little bit about your book ⁓ and a little bit about how you came up with the concept for this book because it is very unique. Lots to talk about in the red carpet rundown. There's been some really fun casting and adaptation news and also we've got some spring break recommendations if you're looking for something to do with the kids. So what do you want to talk about first? talk about the kids. Alli: Yeah, so my book is called Two Bluffs to Stress. It came out about three weeks ago, which feels both like it's been forever and also like I just blinked and now we're here three weeks in. ⁓ It's funny because this is definitely not the book that most of the people in my life would have expected me to write. I've always wanted to write a book, but it I think continues to shock my nearest and dearest that like this was the book. ⁓ Jackie: do you want to talk about first? Let's talk about the kids that the theater right now. Kirsten Baritz: So the first one coming out Friday is the magic faraway tree, which Andrew Garfield of, I don't know, he like Spider-Man fame? But like, I feel like he's known for more than that. But like the Andrew Garfield is starring in this kid's adaptation of the famous book series. It's gonna be so cute. Alli: because it is a book that takes place in the world of the overlap of megachurch culture and the influencer economy, neither of which I belong to. ⁓ I actually am somebody who was raised with two different religious backgrounds, which in some ways made me like kind of not involved in either. I'm pretty agnostic. I was more of like a spectator to religion growing up. Jackie: So the first one coming out Friday is the magic faraway tree which Andrew Garfield of, I don't know, gonna say like Spider-Man fame? I guess so. He's known for more than that. But like the Andrew Garfield is starring in this kid's adaptation of the famous book series. It's gonna be so cute. I actually wouldn't mind to go see Kirsten Baritz: Hahaha! Alli: My son goes to Jewish school. ⁓ So it doesn't really make sense that I wrote this book about megachurch culture, but I just became really fascinated by something that I was seeing out in the world when I was scrolling on my phone, as so many of us do. ⁓ It was like peak lockdown, COVID times, and I started seeing these videos of beautiful young women talking to me about their purity or like how to be more modest while also being hot. And for whatever reason, Kirsten Baritz: the whole concept is there's like this family moves from the city to the country. They have this magic tree. And every they up into the tree, it takes them to like a different ⁓ land that disappears the second they go back down to earth. So it looks really fun and really clever and very like whimsical and fun and it's live action. Jackie: Whereas Alli: I was like, hmm, this is interesting. And I can look back at that now and realize that it was like my journalist self perking up and tuning in because this was like pre-Secret Lives of Mormon Lives. It was before we were seeing a lot of this stuff in the popular discourse. And I think because I was so intrigued by it, I started to wonder about like, Kirsten Baritz: Mm-hmm. Right. Alli: the psychology of it and like this has to be interesting to other people too because these influencers had thousands and thousands and thousands of followers. So ⁓ yeah, I built out this whole story that is told through the perspectives of four different narrators who belong to this social media collective and. Jackie: So the other movie that is already in theaters is the Pout Pout Fish. So that's an animated film, which is obviously going to be better for people with younger kids. It looks adorable. It does, it looks really cute. fan of Pout Pout Fish? Not really. Alli: the way they interact with their church and their pastor. I learned a lot. I had to study the New Testament and watch a lot of sermons, which I certainly did not have on my bingo card for my debut novel. But it was a lot of fun to write, and it's been even more fun to talk about now that it's out in the world. Kirsten Baritz: So the other movie that is already in theaters is Pout Pout Fish. So that's an animated film, which is going to be better for people with younger kids. It looks adorable. It does. Were your kids fans of Pout Pout Fish? Not really. Mine weren't either. There's, I like the later in the series, cause now it's like this epic series, kind of like Llama Llama, know, Pow Pow Fish goes to school, Pow Pow does this, Pow Pow does that. I actually think they're better than the original one. The original one, it's just like, why are you so grumpy, Pow Pow Fish? I know. I don't get it. Well, we could get started with a whole other thing of why I don't like there's certain other kids shows that I also really don't like, like Caillou. Caillou, I knew you were gonna say it. You know how I don't love Peppa Pig? What book did your family think that you were gonna be writing that wasn't this one? Alli: That's a really good question. think they probably thought that I would write more of like a family story because I have a big family. My family has lots of different kind of tree branches. ⁓ And I like to read family stories. And so I think maybe they thought that like my first book would be like the sweeping multi-generational. Jackie: know, Pow Pow goes to school, Pow Pow does this, Pow Pow does that. I actually think they're better than the original one. The original one is just like, why are you so grumpy, Pow Pow bish? I know. I get it. Well, we could get started with a whole other thing of why I don't like there's certain other kids shows that I also really don't like, like Caillou. No, although I do like her accent. Right. Kirsten Baritz: No, I don't. Send that girl on vacation. Like she needs, I don't even know. I do like her accent. Well, yeah. But if you like the accent, just watch Bluey. Right, Bluey. So cute. So cute. But I was like a Doc McStuffins fan girl myself. I loved- Doc McStuffins, Doc McStuffins. I know, but the other kids, the other kids stuff were so cute. The Bubble Guppies. Bubble Guppies were cute. Loved the Bubble Guppies. And then we came as Cloudhouse. Alli: book and I would like to write that book someday. There's a little bit of that in my second book, but in some ways I also think maybe they're relieved that that wasn't the first book because that would have required unpacking more of my own like family history that I don't know that anybody is quite prepared for. I don't think that I'm prepared for it. So yeah, maybe this was like a better place for everybody to start. Kirsten Baritz: Hahaha Jackie: I loved I know but the other kids the other kids stuff were so cute the bubble guppies loved the bubble guppies and the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse Kirsten Baritz: Mm-hmm. You But you have a ⁓ non-traditional road to becoming author, right? So ⁓ I guess ⁓ how did you eventually to that? Because you started off and you ⁓ did podcasting, you've done many other things. How did it lead you Talk adjacent to that as a writer. I mean, they had tried to this roadster racer thing. I'm not about that. I don't like that life. anyway, Minnie has her own clubhouse now too. Did you know this? No. I know. This is the benefit of having nephews that are two and four, two and five. Sorry. I'm a little jealous that you have an excuse to watch these shows. I love them. I'm like deep into Bluey. I really like Bluey because of them. Okay, but let's get into the actual adult movies here. And I want to start with... Jackie: I'm a little jealous that you have an excuse to watch these shows. I love them. Hahaha Alli: Yeah, I like danced around it. I mean, I've always loved to write ever since I was a kid. You both were at my launch, which was so generous of you. But my second grade teacher was also at my launch. And she was the person who really like gave me my love of writing. I have not stopped talking about the fact that she showed up since it happened. I will never get over it. So I've always loved to write. Oh, oh my God, she's. Jackie: Yes. Kirsten Baritz: The Virginia Evans news. ⁓ my goodness. I'm so excited. So not only have they announced that it is the correspondent is going to be made into a movie, but they also announced who is starring in it. And I can't think of anyone better. Bond. Jackie: ⁓ my goodness, I'm so excited. So not only have they announced that it is, the correspondent is gonna be made into a movie, but they've also announced who is starring in it. And I can't think of anyone better who's starring. know that is so exciting. It's gonna be amazing. Kirsten Baritz: Such a hero moment, right? It's like the person that inspired you like shows up for your big moment. It's gonna be amazing. Do you wanna know a fact about Jane Fonda? Yes. Aunt Jan used to work for her. Of course Aunt Jan Aunt Jan knows Jane Fonda. Alli: She's my hero and I didn't know what to call her. I was like, do I call you by your first name? Do I call you by like, is this a Mrs. thing? And of course, you know, at the time I thought she was so much older than I am, but now I'm like, ⁓ like you were pretty, you must've been very young when you were my teacher. So yeah, I've always loved to write ever since I was in second grade. I've always been a reader. ⁓ ended up studying journalism in college. ⁓ Jackie: Yes. Of course Kirsten Baritz: We're like adults now, but... She was like her personal assistant or whatever. She's got videos. She was like in Jane Fonda's workout videos. No, she was not. She was, she was. I've seen the photographic evidence. Jan is something else. was Miss Louisiana. I mean Aunt Jan, she's got a life out there. I need to see this workout video with Aunt Jan. I will make her find it. I need to see it. I will make her find it and bring it to us. Can you imagine? Can I ask? Jackie: She was like in Jane Bond's workout videos. No, she was not. She was. She was. I've seen the photographic evidence. Aunt Jan and something else. No, need... She was in Miss Louisiana. mean, Aunt Jan, she's got a life out there. I need to see this workout video with Aunt Jan. I will make her. I need to see it. I will make her mind it and bring it back. Can I ask for that to be my 50th birthday present? Alli: So again, kind of like dancing around writing, figuring out how I would be able to turn it into a career. I went to school in Washington, D.C. and I think I kind of thought I was going to be a political reporter because I started college in 2008, which was a really interesting time to like also be able to vote. And I realized a couple of semesters in that I don't really like to just like talk to people randomly. And so being a political reporter was not really an option anymore. And I realized that like maybe there was this whole industry Kirsten Baritz: ⁓ wow. Hmm. for that to be my 50th birthday present? Yes. the jam? Yes. Ask her for the Jane Fonda stuff. Yes. Like, I feel like I need that in my life. And she's in like a cleaning mode right now. She could probably dig it up and find it for you. Jackie: from Aunt Jan? Yes. Ask her for the Jane Honda stuff. Yes. Like, I feel like I need that in my life so much. Kirsten Baritz: Hahaha. Alli: around the thing that I loved the most, which was books that I could explore and be part of. So I started interning with a literary agent, which I did for a couple of years in college, or a couple of semesters in college. ⁓ Got a job in the sales department at a major publishing house right out of school, which I think I thought would like, you know, I didn't want to be in sales for me. Good for people who want to be in sales. That was not my path. ⁓ But I think I thought, Jackie: Okay, I'm gonna text Aunt Jan and I'm gonna ask her for that to be my 50th birthday present. And maybe a phone call with Jane Fonda too. ⁓ Kirsten Baritz: I mean, she will happily bring it for you. And maybe a phone call with Jane Fonda too. She's going to be here. It just occurred to me that Aunt Jan is going to be here for one of our filming sessions in April. I think we're going to be having a special guest. I think we need to get Aunt Jan on the pod. 100%. She can squeeze in right here with me and we can co-share the couch. That would be amazing. Aunt Jan's coming on the pod. Should we do this? Right. Jackie: I think we're gonna be having a special guest! Alli: being in that position in a publishing house would give me access to other opportunities. And while it didn't, I am so glad now that I worked in sales because it gave me a chance to interact with so many different departments and parts of the publishing process. So I did that for five years. And for about 10 years since then, I've been freelancing, ⁓ primarily writing and editing, working for different brands, companies. ⁓ Jackie: 100 % That would be amazing. Breaking news. I think that's the best thing I've ever heard. Kirsten Baritz: Mm-hmm. Special guest Aunt Jan. on. Tina Fey coming in hot. Yeah, Tina Fey doing an adaptation. Alli: doing the journalism thing, writing for places like Real Simple and Cosmopolitan. I did have a book podcast for about seven years, which gave me the chance to build like really fantastic bookish community and gain some confidence with the whole like social media self-promotional thing. So yeah, I've kind of been like dancing around this for a long time. And then finally in 2020, I decided that I wanted to take the like the original dream of becoming an author seriously. And I went back and got my MFA at Temple and just sort of was like, Jackie: Tina Fey. Oh, yeah, Tina Fey is doing an adaptation Finley Dove. Kirsten Baritz: Finlay Donovan is killing it. This is gonna be fantastic. Jackie: This is gonna be fantastic. Kirsten Baritz: ⁓ Jackie: it's good it opens up to have a few of them. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ I it would ⁓ do well ⁓ as adaptation. Kirsten Baritz: Yeah, think there's like four or five books in the series. There's a new one coming out this year. It's a fun. It's a fun series. I think it would do. ⁓ wow. Alli: It's now or never I need to figure out how to have some discipline around this part of my life and around my creative practice. And that really did work for me. I don't know that that works for everybody. I think the MFA conversation is a complicated one, but I knew that I just needed the structure. And that's definitely what I got. Kirsten Baritz: So do you think that your background in like all of these other industries from podcasting to sales and publishing helped you steer your characters? Cause you have more insight on what readers actually want. Other big news. This is for the Swifties. God of the Woods by Moore. Alli: I think so. I think I think I have looked at this world of books from every angle. Like I Kirsten Baritz: was announced that it was going to be adapted two days after it appeared on the Taylor Swift documentary. When people found out that Taylor Swift was listening to it as an audiobook, two days later, it got an adaptation. And now there's a casting news update. Alli: looked at it from this very mercenary angle, working in sales and having to listen to hard conversations about what works and what doesn't and the disappointment that happens when a book that everybody loves isn't ultimately marketable or people, for whatever reason, don't like it. You learn that it is such a fickle, sometimes arbitrary industry. Sometimes we don't know what makes a book work and what makes a book not work. And then, yeah. Jackie: It got an adaptation. Now there's a casting news. Yeah. Maya Haack is going to be starring in it and I love her for that role. I think it's going to be amazing. I don't think I've seen her in anything before. Oh, she was in Stranger Things. I'm obsessed with Stranger Things. I love her so much. I think she's phenomenal. Well, I got to see her on screen in this particular adaptation. Kirsten Baritz: amazing. I don't think I've seen her in anything before. ⁓ she was in Stranger Things. I'm obsessed with Stranger Things. I love her so much. I think she's phenomenal. Well I gotta see her on screen in this particular adaptation which I am very excited about. This is one of those books you'd like recommend over and over and over and over again to people. And I think on screen it will actually be fantastic. Yep And I love when people say that they do and then you're like, you had no idea that that book about an octopus was gonna make it to the best seller list. Like, let's be honest. Alli: No. Who could have seen that coming? mean, did not. Did not see Sally Fields getting involved in that one. Jackie: And I think on screen it will actually be fantastic. Alli: And then I think from like the book podcasting angle and really getting close with a lot of authors, understanding more like the emotional part of it and seeing what it's like on the other from the other side of the table when you're like maybe on the receiving end of news that's being delivered delicately from inside the publishing house. Like I think I was kind of prepared to. I don't know. I don't know that anything prepares you, but I do think like I. Kirsten Baritz: Agreed. love anything set in like the 70s in general when it's adapted. just think there's like, I don't know, there's something about that time period that I love to see on a screen. Which is why I'm not surprised that they chose her because Stranger Things is like an 80s thing. she really does that retro vibes. Oh, well, that makes sense then. Yeah. Jackie: Which is why I'm not surprised that they chose her because Stranger Things is like an 80s thing. So she really does that retro vibe so well. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Kirsten Baritz: Right. Alli: was able to at least understand a little bit about a lot of things before I started the actual publishing process. There was still so much that I didn't know, but I think in terms of like steering the story, at least, I hoped that I, if nothing else was well read enough and had met enough authors and heard enough about their processes to be ready for whatever it might throw at me. Jackie: So now it's time for the main We are having an interview with Ali Hoff Cossack. Kirsten Baritz: Yeah, I feel like it must have helped in terms of every part of the book process because we've heard more and more from so many different authors that they've actually had to take on a lot more in terms of getting the word out there about their book and book tours and everything that used to happen automatically after a book was published. Alli: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And I think you'll understand this because of the blog and now the podcast and all that you do on social media. But the practice that I had with the podcast and kind of putting together this brand with SSR, which is my podcast, that was like separate from myself, that has helped me so much in promoting the book and my work as an author, because I am not, you know, in a lot of ways, I'm like the classic author. I'm pretty introverted and I don't love attention. ⁓ So I wasn't comfortable on my personal social media. Kirsten Baritz: Allie worked in publishing for five years before leaving to pursue her writing career. She was the host of the SSR podcast for more than seven years and is now the co-host of, This a Thing? Alli: media feeds, doing a lot of things that I had to do on my podcast, social media feeds in order to grow a following organically. And I haven't been doing the podcast for a little over a year now, but I was able to like, to get a little bit more comfortable doing things like turning the camera on myself to post a story where I share about the book or. Kirsten Baritz: So let's hear Ali talk about her new book, Too Blessed to Stress. Jackie: So let's hear Ali talk about her new book, Too Blessed to Stress. Alli: God forbid going on TikTok because TikTok is scary in its own way. But I am trying really hard to be a cool TikTok author a little bit. So, yeah, I mean, I'm glad I'm glad that I was prepared for a lot of those things. I think it also gave me confidence. And I think being a freelancer has helped with that, too. It's like I've spent the last 10 years, whether as a podcaster or freelance writer, like just pitching myself and like putting myself out there and sending cold emails. And I was really sensitive before I started doing that. Kirsten Baritz: Yeah Tube, let's distress is such a good book for spring break. So if you're listening to this now, you're going on vacation, throw it in your beach bag. But I think you also have another book for us for spring break. I do. I'm so excited that I got to read. Jackie: She lets us stress that such a good book for spring break. So if you're listening to this now, you're going on vacation, throw it in your beach bag. But I think you also have another book for us for spring break. I do. I'm so excited that I got to read No Matter What by Cara Bustone. And it's been out for a few weeks. She wrote Promise Me Sunshine. Alli: I know that the worst that you can hear is no and so whether it's like just pitching myself for an event or like When I was asking for blurbs for the book Now I'm much less afraid to just Send an email send a good email a thoughtful email But I know that the worst that can happen is maybe you don't hear back and then you just move on and try somebody else Kirsten Baritz: It's been out for a few weeks. She wrote Promise Me Sunshine, which was one of our best books of last year. best books. I absolutely love this book. She does an amazing job of writing very emotional romances. So this is a romance where a husband and a wife have been in a really bad accident a year ago and they have Jackie: which was one of our best books. I absolutely love this book. She does an amazing job of writing very emotional romances. So this is a romance where a husband and a wife have been in a really bad accident a year ago, and they have some trauma associated with that. And their marriage has really started to come apart. Kirsten Baritz: Right. Well, I'm shocked to hear that you're so introverted because we were at your book launch and you did an amazing job up there with Joe. You were sick. You were like navigating family there. It's your first one and you were in the spotlight and you totally crushed it. Alli: Thank you. didn't know how I would do with book events just because. Jackie: in order to try and get themselves back together. The husband thinks that it would be a good idea if he were to move out. When the wife finds out about this, she's really, really upset and they're having trouble communicating. And it's just a beautiful romance and slow burn about how they can figure out how to come back together. She decides to take an art class and he decides that he is going to be her model. Alli: I am naturally an introvert. mean, I can I can come in and out of it pretty well, but I don't always do well in big events. But I've really loved the process of promoting the book. I've been on tour for about two weeks. ⁓ I'm home for a week now, which is nice. And then I go back out next week. And I really loved it. I've loved talking about the book. I've loved meeting people, ⁓ meeting booksellers. It's been great. And so I hope to do more of it. But also, I was like up there with Joe Piazza and like, what are you going to do? You kind of have to keep up. Jackie: And so in having that like literally nothing between them is how, and it was so emotional and like such a powerful way. It was a fabulous romance. So if you're looking for a really like powerful, fun, strong, spicy romance, this is the one to put in your beach bag and bring it on vacation. Alli: with Joe Piazza or you you have to try like you have no choice Kirsten Baritz: It's true, it's true. No, she's a force in and of herself. Oh my God, I love We've been doing her book launches for like the past few years and it's just like, who's running this interview? Oh no, it's a hundred percent she is. Right. Alli: Yes. I know, I was like, ⁓ yeah. I was like, ⁓ okay, I'm ready, we're in. So I think she helped, maybe it was good, because I couldn't be nervous when she was running the show, and I really appreciated that. Kirsten Baritz: spicy romance, this is the one to put in your beach bag and bring it on vacation. I love that. Which speaking of vacation, we are off next week. We ⁓ are both to be on spring break, but it's also the end of the month. And we decided last month that we're going to merge the final episode of the month with the first episode of the next month. So there will be no podcast on April 2nd. We'll be back on April 9th. And we will be talking about Jackie: We are both going to be on. Kirsten Baritz: Yeah. No, you can't, because she's also like a one-man comedy show. She is. She is. She makes me laugh so hard. And she's a seasoned pro, so she just like helps bring everyone comfort and just, she feels all awkward silence-ish. She's just great at her job. I actually, I have a question for you, very specific now about the book. Okay, sorry. Because I'm wondering, Alli: Yeah. Jackie: with the first episode of the next month so there will be no... Alli: She's the best. Yeah, totally. Kirsten Baritz: the April, 2026 new releases and Celebrity Book Club picks. Jackie: April 2026 new releases and celebrity book comebacks. How are we discussing April already? I don't know. It is wild. It's insane. This year is flying by. if you guys have any predictions, if you want to send them to us, if you get them right, we'll mention your name Alli: Okay. Kirsten Baritz: I don't know, it is wild. It's insane, this year is flying by. So if you guys have any predictions, you want to send them to us, if you get them right, we'll mention your name As like, follow and subscribe. We can't wait to see you in two weeks. You wrote this book from multiple points of view. And I was wondering if it was hard for you to do that, and especially as a first-time author, and how did you keep everybody straight? And did you write everybody's stories and then divide it up? Like, how did that work for you? Because it was great. You did such a good job. Right. Each character has a distinct voice, and they're very different people and personalities. And yet, you Alli: Mm-hmm. Jackie: See you in two weeks. Happy reading. Kirsten Baritz: You managed to capture them so well when they're together, even from other people's points of view. yeah, that was a feat for a first time author. Alli: ⁓ thank you so much. So yes, the book is written from four narrative perspectives. But fun fact, it was originally five. ⁓ So at first it was actually even more. I don't know that I can say chaotic, but it probably was chaotic in that version. Now it's been rained in a little bit. So the plan was always to have multiple narrative perspectives. I think it's just because that's what I like to read the most. ⁓ And that just felt like the right way to go. It's funny because my second book. Kirsten Baritz: Okay. Alli: which I just submitted the second draft of to my editor, is written from one perspective, and I'm finding it a lot more challenging. Yeah, it's way harder for me. I don't know that I'll do it again. Yeah, think, I mean, it's, first of all, you really start to get. Kirsten Baritz: Really? ⁓ ⁓ wow. Alli: I okay, I would get through a chapter and if it was, if it was, if I was struggling with it, I would know that I would finish it and then I would get to spend time with somebody else. Um, and also when you're writing from one narrative perspective, you really lose a lot of, or at least I do the way I write. I lost a lot of like the tools in my tool belt of like showing and not telling from other people's perspectives. Um, and so I think Kirsten Baritz: Got it. Alli: I had to rely on different things and different strategies to build out a fuller story when I was writing book two. And it's something I'm still working on with that book. ⁓ But book one, it just felt like I could really build out this really rich and layered world because all four of them were seeing it and describing it to the reader. I... Kirsten Baritz: Mm-hmm. Alli: I did not write like each one separately. I wrote the book ⁓ kind of in chunks. So I would outline ⁓ like the first set of chapters from all of the narrators, write those chapters in full, ⁓ review them, and then I would outline the next set. So I was kind of like taking it that way. And for me, that worked really well. I really don't care for outlining and I still don't, but that was like a good midpoint where I could see a little bit ahead of myself and then, but the characters kind of do their thing. And then once I had a finished manuscript, I sort of like reassembled all of the chapters so that each... narrator, I would like read through the complete arc for each of them. So I did do that as an exercise to make sure that it felt like each character was getting equal attention and enough narrative weight, but I did not write them all like consecutively at first. I just sort of gave it a separate read in that order. Kirsten Baritz: Interesting. What was the name of the fifth character and what happened to their storyline? Alli: The fifth character was Ruthie and Savannah, who is one of the four narrators in the finished version of Two Blessed to Stress is a combination of the original Savannah and Ruthie. So there's still some like shades of her there, but she had, there was some, there are a couple of other threads that we lost, but I do think it was, it was a good choice in the end. It was hard for me, but it was a good choice. Kirsten Baritz: Okay. Did you always know where the story was gonna end up? Or you let the characters take you there? Alli: I kind of let the characters take me there. I definitely am a character author primarily. My dream is to one day be allowed to write a book where like nothing really happens and just like the characters are. getting to know each other and like getting to know themselves and maybe some inner interpersonal drama happens. But apparently they don't let you do that for a while as an author. Like you have to earn your way there. So I had a very clear picture of the characters and of the world that they were going to live in. But it took me writing. a lot of the book to figure out where it was all built into. And it also took the encouragement and the advice of both my agent and my editor who sort of helped me figure out how to build to a little bit more of a climactic moment and how to pace the story a little bit better. Kirsten Baritz: So the story from the cover and from the initial description, it looks and almost it doesn't read like a beach read, but it looks like it's going to read like a beach read, if that makes sense. And there is that entertainment to it, of course, and the levity to it. But then there are these like really heavy hitting topics and there that I was not expecting to be diving into. ⁓ How did you Alli: Yeah. It's so tricky and I love talking about this on tour because and it was really fun to talk about this with Joe in the room because, you know, we were looking at my cover and it's like, ⁓ it's so cute. Like, look how cute and girly the cover is. And it is. And it is this paperback that you can just like throw in your beach bag or take on the plane with you, which I love as a vacation reader. ⁓ But it was important to me in writing the book to. while covering these topics that I think are often viewed as silly or inconsequential, I wanted to give them some real weight and credibility with strong, thoughtful writing. I wanted to model my writing after my favorite writers who maybe don't write about influencers, but who have taught me to write just because I love to read their work. And so ⁓ for me, it was just... trying to hold those two things at the same time and hoping that the reader would get it. And it is hard because I think it's really easy to judge an influencer book. And I say that in quotes. Kirsten Baritz: Mm-hmm. Alli: and assume that it's going to be this light, fluffy read. And my book is fun. I'm not going to pretend that there aren't these light, moments. But it is ultimately, I think, or I hope, a social commentary that opens up a lot of great space for discussion with book clubs and with friends. I wrestled with ⁓ the that it won't be taken seriously. And it has been so refreshing in the first couple of weeks since the book has been out there to hear from readers who ⁓ Kirsten Baritz: Mm-hmm. Alli: who get that and who are like, no, you know, there's nothing wrong, first of all, books that are light and fluffy. I think we all need that in our lives. So I'm not here to poo poo that at all. ⁓ But to see that readers are saying, I like that too, but this isn't necessarily that. Kirsten Baritz: Mm-hmm. Alli: It's been really refreshing. And I think a lot of it was more of like a marketing question and a positioning question with my publisher. Like, how do we have this illustrated cover that we know is going to sell well on the paperback table? And how do we make sure we're taking advantage of the buzz around something like Secret Lives of Mormon Wives? But how do we also make sure people know that it's smart and ⁓ not needlessly salacious? And those are like much bigger conversations that I'm lucky I have other people like in the room for. But yeah, it's definitely been like a tricky thing. And it's been nice to actually be able to talk about it with people and to feel like it makes sense. Kirsten Baritz: I loved that about the book because I had a lot of fun with them. I felt like I kind of wanted to see what they were going to do because I feel like you really picked up on their social media influence really well, but then to see also what was going on behind the scenes that is real life. And like influencing in general, people don't understand that it's a business and there are a lot of like real business decisions that are happening behind the scenes. There's a lot of work that goes into the behind the scenes of any of these things that just look like fun and fluffy. And you really ⁓ dived into the that like, these are people that are thinking about what they're saying before they're going on screen. They're thinking about their image, they're questioning everything and they're business people. ⁓ Alli: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I was I'm I'm a 90s kid, so I was raised on like. Kirsten Baritz: Yeah. Alli: The ROM comes with the Andy Andersons of the world and these really ambitious, hardworking women. The Devil Wears Prada. Thank goodness we're getting the reboot of that. ⁓ So I think that that was the version of ambition that I saw in pop culture as a kid and as a teen. And that really drove me to be the kind of person that I am. And I think we need to be honest with ourselves that like, Influencers are that now. mean, it is really hard to make money doing this. There are a lot of people trying it and not a lot of people succeeding at it. ⁓ But for us to pretend that being a successful influencer doesn't make you an ambitious person, the likes of those journalists and... Kirsten Baritz: Yeah. Alli: hard-working assistants that we all loved watching on screens in the 90s and early aughts like we're lying to ourselves. That's that's what it is now ⁓ and I hope that books like mine and other discourse in the same space continues to lend credibility to it because it's not silly and it's really easy to write it off as silly but this is where so many things in our world begin and ⁓ we should be talking about it. Kirsten Baritz: And you see even now like a secret lives of Mormon wives you brought up. And of course it's having this moment right now. But the whole thing about influencers and reality TV stars and this whole thing is it's their real life. And there it's not like a celebrity who's putting on a role and standing in front of a red carpet. Influencers let you into their world for good or for bad. And there is some really negative baggage that comes along with that that we're seeing play out. Alli: ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kirsten Baritz: I always joke with Jo that she has this like beat on the pulse of pop culture that she manages to write these books at the same time that something like Major is blowing up in that same realm. And I feel like you hit that with this. Like were you expecting that you're going to be writing something about Christian influencers as this news of The Bachelorette and Secret Lives and Mormon Lives are coming out? Alli: Yeah, I mean, it was funny. think the announcement about the first season of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives came out like a couple of months after I sold the book and I was like, great, this is perfect. People are starting to get it because when I when I was first shopping the book, there was some concern about like the religious element and whether or not that would be a problem for people. And I was like, OK, this is going to be in the zeitgeist. It's going to be fine. And now, of course, like when I'm at the peak of promoting the book. ⁓ Taylor Frankie Paul is having, I mean to call it a crash out would be insensitive to like what a big deal it is and like how many people have been affected by what's going on. And also, and I certainly don't want to give these people more air time, but it's also, if you are somebody who follows the ongoing saga of the Duggar family, there's a lot of scary, horrible stuff happening with them this week. And so I did an event last night where both Taylor Frankie Paul and the Kirsten Baritz: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. Alli: Duggars came up and I was like this is it's like a weird week to be somebody who wrote this book with both of these kinds of people in mind because I do think it shows that these things are relevant and it can cause real harm and it can also bring people a lot of money and success but there's of course the flip side too. Kirsten Baritz: you're not ⁓ seeing everything, So you're not, and ⁓ like said before, I mean, you did a really good job of showing the difference between the public and what we're showing and what we're saying and actually what's really happening, which is what we've been seeing with these other people. Right, because eventually the curtain pulls back and you see all of what was happening behind us and that. Alli: Never. Kirsten Baritz: to see when you read this book from the beginning. You're seeing the forward face of each of them, but then what's going on behind the scenes and behind the curtain, and then it all kind of publicly comes out together at the end. Alli: Yes, that was the goal and I'm glad that it does seem it seems to have struck that balance for people and the nuances there which was also really important to me. ⁓ There's no punching down, there's no making fun. It really is just an opportunity I hope for people to like read about something that's very much happening in the world. I think it's probably going to continue happening and maybe to talk. Kirsten Baritz: Mm-hmm. Alli: about it more openly and to consider ways that they might be enabling it or missing it. I think those are all valid conversations that we can be having. Kirsten Baritz: Mm-hmm. you did ⁓ a realistic job. Am I allowed to ask if any of your characters are based on real people? ⁓ you don't have to name names if they The pastor is? Alli: The pastor is the pastor is the pastor is based very specifically on a pastor of a megachurch in the Charlotte area. actually don't know that he's still in the Charlotte area, but the book is set in Charlotte and ⁓ I at some point in my early research, I started to stumble on pastors and pastors wives because there's also a pastor's wife in the book who plays a pretty significant role. And I stumbled on this particular couple and Kirsten Baritz: Hey! Alli: he pretty quickly became the inspiration for Kyle Welsh, who is the pastor in my book. His wife is definitely not based on this person's wife, but he has the same like I his the bomber jackets, the hairstyle, the sort of like youthful energy, all of that. Other than that, I think the characters are pretty they're like really hybrids of the influencers that I had found in my research. Kirsten Baritz: Wait. Okay. Alli: because there's just like so much to work with. But yeah, the pastor has a has a pretty clear inspiration point. Kirsten Baritz: Mm-hmm. I love that. need to go do a little Google research. I love a little Google research moment. Alli: Don't we all? we Kirsten Baritz: like, what's the timeline your next book? Alli: It's set to come out right now in May of 2027, which is very soon. Yeah. Kirsten Baritz: ⁓ my gosh, you're gonna be like announcing it with a cover on everything soon. Alli: I know, because I sold it, well, I guess early last fall, and we officially announced it in October. But yeah, I was thinking we're probably going to start having cover conversations in the next couple of months, assuming everything is good editorially. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kirsten Baritz: So much fun! That is really fun. I love this for for next year's beach region. I know! I love Summer season. This, this... We don't want to! Jakes! Alli: I know. You won't be able to get rid of me. Perfect. Perfect. Kirsten Baritz: so Does the book have a name? Alli: Yeah, as of right now, and I don't think it's changing, it's called people please with a comma in the middle. People, comma, Kirsten Baritz: Okay. Oh, I can't wait to I know, I'm really, really excited. Thank you so much for coming on. This was so much fun to talk to you. We couldn't be happier. No, this is great that you were like our first full guest that's an author and this interview felt like chatting with a friend. Very easy. Alli: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Well, I am forever a fan and grateful for any opportunity I have to chat with both of you. So thank you so much for your support for the book. And I'm always around to chat about reading and podcasting and anything else. So thank you so much. Kirsten Baritz: Thank you.