Latest / Speak In Flow / Leadership Strategies For Giving Back, Meeting The Mission, And Contributing To The Greater Good Of Community With Debra Lockwood

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Leadership Strategies For Giving Back, Meeting The Mission, And Contributing To The Greater Good Of Community With Debra Lockwood · Speak In Flow

• 0:02
  Melinda Lee: Hello, everyone, welcome to the Speak In Flow
• 0:04
  podcast, I have a very special treat and amazing leader who
• 0:08
  does so much for the community. Welcome Debra Lockwood, she was
• 0:13
  the former president of the provenance Resources Group, the
• 0:17
  National chairperson for the American Heart Association from
• 0:22
  2010 to 2011. And right now she gives back to our cancer
• 0:28
  patients, as the President of the Emory Proton Therapy Centre,
• 0:34
  or group, centre, centre. Thank you so much, Deborah, it's
• 0:39
  really nice to have you. I've heard so much about you through
• 0:43
  your amazing daughter, Sarah. And so I love to be able to
• 0:48
  share like your experiences with our audience, because I feel
• 0:51
  like they can have so much takeaways from your leadership
• 0:54
  and all that you've done to help the community. And also what are
• 0:58
  some of those challenges that you've experienced to rise to
• 1:01
  the top? And so my first question to you is, in your
• 1:06
  career in your profession, I'm sure you've had gone through a
• 1:10
  lot. But what is one key moment that you felt that that was a
• 1:14
  challenge for you? And what did you do to overcome that
• 1:17
  challenge? What was happening? So first, I was in my late 20s,
• 1:22
  which meant I wasn't very experienced compared to now. And
• 1:26
  I was being challenged by partners and a firm that I
• 1:28
  worked with at apt to bring in new clients. And I was just
• 1:33
  doing a great job as as a CPA doing what I do. Not really
• 1:38
  understanding, well, why do I have to do duck clients just
• 1:40
  show up? And I was then said, Well, you need to go get him. I
• 1:45
  didn't know how that would happen. And so I was asked to be
• 1:48
  on a board, and to test myself to see if I could represent the
• 1:52
  firm represent myself. It was a I had to take a deep swallow
• 1:57
  then and say, Can I do this? Because I didn't know. But
• 2:01
  remember your thoughts that were going on the feelings that you
• 2:04
  had?
• 2:06
  Debra Lockwood: You know, I think I underestimated what the
• 2:10
  responsibilities would be number one, because I did not realise
• 2:16
  what a board was, honestly, that a working board was really
• 2:21
  contributing to their mission, and to get them to achieve their
• 2:26
  goals. And I didn't understand that well, nor did I understand
• 2:29
  that a well run board is one that has people with different
• 2:35
  expertise to provide what a full board needs, whether it's
• 2:39
  something specific, specific with a mission, whether it's
• 2:43
  accounting, arts, legal, or it could be government relations,
• 2:47
  all these things. And when you start realising that a board
• 2:50
  really is made up of a lot of individuals with certain
• 2:53
  expertise, when you put them together, you have a full
• 2:56
  company basically running, right. I mean, yeah, it was not
• 2:59
  what the teams are, when you're in, if you're thinking about the
• 3:02
  leaders, and you are all leaders of a part of a team, and you
• 3:05
  have your specific niche or expertise, you're providing the
• 3:09
  well rounded that view of where you're going in a project. And
• 3:14
  so same thing with a board. And so but you went in there, not
• 3:17
  really knowing the full scope, and then you went in, sometimes
• 3:22
  not knowing everything. Well, I did. But I also understood that,
• 3:26
  you know, if you're a CPA, they're almost always going to
• 3:30
  tattoo you as treasurer, immediately. And that puts you
• 3:33
  in a leadership role. Again, not sure whether I could do it, but
• 3:37
  I was, I was actually in my wheelhouse because I knew how to
• 3:41
  do what I was being asked to do. But I also felt a greater
• 3:44
  responsibility to do it in a better way, or whatever. But I
• 3:48
  found that that was really, once I knew my craft, in this case,
• 3:54
  I'm a CPA, once I knew my craft, I knew a lot more than a lot of
• 3:59
  people who did something in another craft, right, and
• 4:03
  putting them together made all work better. So that helped me
• 4:07
  have more confidence. I don't walk into any group talking
• 4:11
  right away.
• 4:13
  But I wait to hear I like to listen first to hear what is
• 4:17
  expected of the members. And sometimes there's more to it.
• 4:20
  And then I'm suggesting now, but you learn very quickly, where
• 4:25
  you can help or not, or what you enjoy doing or not, and which
• 4:30
  boards you like or not, which all of that has happened to me
• 4:33
  over the years. But when I do hit a home run, and I am in a
• 4:39
  place where I'm actually contributing to the health of
• 4:42
  the organisation and helping them read the meet their
• 4:45
  mission, and at the same time collaborating with other
• 4:48
  business people or non business people that just kind of broaden
• 4:53
  my perspective. And those people I still see to this day 40 years
• 4:57
  later and I you know remembering you on this board. Yeah, I
• 5:01
  remember that it was fun. Or it wasn't, there was a difficult
• 5:04
  time. And we all work through it. So that's really, I think,
• 5:09
  understanding what is needed before you walk into it. Right?
• 5:13
  Not not pigeonholing yourself, per se, because, right?
• 5:18
  Connected to being a leader, right? Just because I want to be
• 5:23
  a CPA and I can do finances doesn't mean that I'm also not
• 5:27
  capable of being the president. Yeah, no, you said something
• 5:30
  very key here. So you went in with your specific craft a CPA.
• 5:34
  But then once you got in, you really listen to other people,
• 5:38
  and found some secret nasty, maybe some interconnections?
• 5:42
  Yes. And no moment? And where can we all together? Create
• 5:47
  something, but that is scary sometimes. Because all a lot of
• 5:51
  the times we want to go in all prepared and know exactly what,
• 5:54
  what the conversation is gonna look like. And so you're
• 5:57
  encouraging us like, just go in no your crap. But then listen,
• 6:02
  listen to what's going on. I have a question that have you
• 6:05
  been in a conversation and one of those meetings where someone
• 6:08
  doesn't agree? So it sounds like you were able to build
• 6:11
  alliances, collaborations? And what about when someone doesn't
• 6:15
  agree with you? Well, first, it's about being professional at
• 6:19
  all times. Yeah. And I, if I know that it's a controversial
• 6:23
  subject, I do a homework, I do homework, I come in with my
• 6:27
  facts, and what I view something being and if I'm outnumbered, I
• 6:32
  am out number two democratic society, and I then make a
• 6:35
  decision whether it is still in my in the in the organization's
• 6:40
  best interest to stay aligned, or if they're going in a
• 6:43
  different way, and I don't agree with it, then it's best for me
• 6:46
  to move on and let them do their thing. And so I've been in both
• 6:49
  situations, you know, in a hospital and one case where I
• 6:53
  did not understand why they were doing what they were doing, in
• 6:57
  terms of alliances, and, you know, they went on did their
• 7:00
  thing, and they're doing great, but I was uncomfortable. So it's
• 7:03
  about it's a, it's an evaluation both ways, they're evaluating
• 7:08
  you, but you're also evaluating them, if you can rest, when
• 7:12
  you're finished the day, and just go home and say it was a
• 7:15
  nice day, or it was a difficult day, but we all are on the same
• 7:17
  page that works. But if on the other hand, you go home, you
• 7:22
  don't feel well about the whole deal, and you continue to feel
• 7:24
  that way, then it's time to make make a change and allow someone
• 7:28
  else an opportunity. Because as a nonprofit, there are lots of
• 7:31
  people that are looking for those types of opportunities. So
• 7:33
  I think it's also you know, appropriate to let other people
• 7:37
  have that opportunity when you've already done some and
• 7:40
  decided it's not for you, right, and then let go of the need to
• 7:46
  have a way or prove yourself and in what if it falls back on you
• 7:51
  though? What if, because that's ultimately the decision if you
• 7:54
  let them do something, and then the repercussions fall back on
• 7:58
  you. The only decision that I thought I really needed to walk
• 8:04
  away from was really a strategic decision, which was where was
• 8:10
  the organisation going. And it was a very volatile environment
• 8:14
  all around. And I just didn't, I didn't appreciate the direction
• 8:20
  it was going. It was relative to mergers and other things. So I
• 8:24
  been through two of those. At this point, one I was
• 8:27
  appreciative of, and the other one I was less. But the bottom
• 8:30
  line was learning that I'm not helpful if I'm not enthusiastic,
• 8:35
  right. I'm not helpful. If I'm just sitting there trying to
• 8:39
  question why are we doing this? If in fact, everybody has
• 8:43
  decided something different,
• 8:45
  Melinda Lee: right?
• 8:46
  Debra Lockwood: I'm the oddball. It's still I believe in a
• 8:48
  democratic society. And I do believe organisations go in
• 8:51
  different places and have different cultures, depending on
• 8:53
  who leaders are. And if it's not my thing, it's not. It's okay.
• 8:58
  Melinda Lee: Have you had How do you communicate some of these
• 9:01
  difficult communication expressions? Uh huh. But well,
• 9:07
  Debra Lockwood: I think I think you don't necessarily you
• 9:10
  express yourself that this is not something that you think is
• 9:13
  a great idea without belittling anybody else's thought process.
• 9:18
  And then you know, at the appropriate time, you don't make
• 9:22
  a deal of it. You don't do it that night and say, I'm off the
• 9:24
  board, I'm out. I don't want to be here anymore. That's never
• 9:27
  happened to me. I've never done that. You wait until the
• 9:30
  appropriate time decide I'm not going to renew my I'm not going
• 9:33
  to go to the next step level. And that's how I do it. Because
• 9:38
  it keeps everybody in tact and you're still working and
• 9:41
  everybody's doing things but you know, I I look for things that
• 9:44
  are fulfilling to me as well. And building my energy and not
• 9:49
  taking my energy.
• 9:50
  Melinda Lee: Right. And I think that's our decision. Yeah, yeah,
• 9:53
  yeah, going in and like you said, what fulfils me if it
• 9:56
  doesn't feel good and what I'm what I'm in alignment with and
• 9:59
  holding that to be true and saying that you might be the
• 10:02
  oddball, but at least you're saying it, because you know
• 10:05
  that, hey, there's something that didn't sit well with you.
• 10:08
  And so you're saying it and saying in the appropriate time
• 10:11
  doing the research and saying not belittling people caring
• 10:16
  Yeah. And, and then so once you were on the board, and then what
• 10:20
  happened after you you found your way in the board and with
• 10:26
  the board
• 10:28
  Debra Lockwood: in a board or just in
• 10:30
  Melinda Lee: the last one that you're talking about?
• 10:31
  Debra Lockwood: Where where there was dissension?
• 10:33
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah,
• 10:35
  Debra Lockwood: there was actually leadership change with
• 10:38
  management, too. So there were a lots of changes going on at the
• 10:41
  time. So it was just, it was all came unglued a little bit. But
• 10:45
  it all got back together. So it was good. It's all but you know,
• 10:50
  we're still all still, you know, community that I'm in favour of
• 10:55
  and hospital I'm in favour of and people i i appreciate, and,
• 11:01
  but I'm not having to stress about it.
• 11:03
  Melinda Lee: Right,
• 11:04
  Debra Lockwood: made that decision.
• 11:05
  Melinda Lee: And you saw you do a lot, you're in the nonprofit
• 11:09
  industry, what made you decide to do that,
• 11:13
  Debra Lockwood: you know, I, I was spending a lot of time on
• 11:16
  boards, all sorts of boards, and really felt it was great for me,
• 11:23
  I enjoyed it. But I also had a practice that I was trying to
• 11:27
  maintain. And I decided that I was going to sell my practice
• 11:32
  and to one of my partners and go into industry, but chose
• 11:37
  nonprofits, because I felt that I was going to marry both right
• 11:43
  building, I don't have to build a practice anymore. But I can
• 11:46
  give back and be part of a mission and go forward and
• 11:50
  whatever. And so I did that. And that has been the right decision
• 11:53
  for me all along. I'm certainly still I, I was I was CFO at
• 11:59
  provident for a number of years, 20 years or so. And still did a
• 12:03
  lot of accounting, but it was more strategic in the last 15
• 12:08
  years or so. Then detail. But everything I learned at all the
• 12:12
  elements before then contributed to my being able to be in the
• 12:16
  role that I was at provident.
• 12:18
  Melinda Lee: Mm, got it. So you're able to take it with you.
• 12:22
  Yeah, good choice for you.
• 12:23
  Debra Lockwood: Yes. And all those relationship building. So
• 12:27
  in Providence case where we may be dealing with university x,
• 12:32
  and then another university y, and there's a project for
• 12:34
  classroom space, and one and there's housing on another, our
• 12:38
  we're building a hotel for a convention centre, you got to
• 12:41
  build relationships with people you don't know, some of whom are
• 12:45
  questioning, why are you here? Because none of whom are saying,
• 12:48
  oh, gosh, you're a wonder for us because we need you. And we have
• 12:52
  to learn how to explain ourselves, in a humble way to
• 12:56
  make sure that everybody understands that we're here to
• 12:59
  serve them, and, and provide whatever we need to provide at
• 13:04
  the time. And that is, so learning those smaller tasks in
• 13:09
  smaller boards taught taught me how to work in a team that is
• 13:15
  made up of attorneys and developers and universities and,
• 13:19
  you know, government entities and so forth at the table, same
• 13:23
  table, all with different perspectives, all with different
• 13:28
  objectives. But trying to remember why are we here, if
• 13:32
  it's the university, we're here for the students, whatever you
• 13:35
  do, you're here for the students, I don't know what
• 13:38
  you're dealing with on your desk, but you're here for the
• 13:40
  students. And if we know that this housing, that safe and
• 13:44
  sound and comfortable is a better learning environment than
• 13:48
  you are doing your job as an administrator to make that
• 13:51
  happen. Using all those tools,
• 13:55
  Melinda Lee: but what happens in larger stage? Yeah, yeah, I
• 13:59
  mean, that's so important, reminding people of the reason
• 14:02
  why we're here because so often, we can just be on the position,
• 14:05
  I want it this way, or I want it this way, and just keep talking
• 14:08
  about that. And then, and then sometimes we might forget, what
• 14:12
  is the real reason that we're here and try to find that
• 14:15
  commonality.
• 14:17
  Debra Lockwood: And not make it personal,
• 14:19
  Melinda Lee: not make it personal
• 14:20
  Debra Lockwood: when we realise that you're here as a servant to
• 14:23
  help a mission, get accomplished. It is a public,
• 14:27
  you're serving the public. And when you're serving the public,
• 14:31
  you don't necessarily know Joe Smith or whomever, you just know
• 14:37
  that in general, you're going to move the needle a little bit.
• 14:40
  That's what your goal is. Just keep moving the needle over
• 14:43
  time, it becomes a big needle that gets moved, but just
• 14:46
  knowing that and how we do it when you're discussing tactics.
• 14:52
  That's just really not important. At the end of the
• 14:55
  day. If you have different people with attitudes, I mean,
• 14:59
  take Technology, you know, people that do not want
• 15:03
  technology Absolutely. Do not want it. Right. But others see
• 15:08
  technologies as a solution. right things done faster, right?
• 15:12
  It can still get done. It's just a matter of how quickly how
• 15:16
  quickly and, and how we can work together to do this. Yes.
• 15:22
  Melinda Lee: Whether you use technology or not, and keep our
• 15:25
  eye on the prize to keep your eye on why we're here. Yeah, I
• 15:29
  mean, that very clear. And being that underpin to move us through
• 15:33
  it was was specially when there's challenges because we
• 15:35
  know we're always gonna face those challenges, and hurdles
• 15:39
  and obstacles. How do you do so much? How do you manage your
• 15:43
  your energy and your your passion? What are your Yeah,
• 15:47
  what do you do for yourself?
• 15:48
  Debra Lockwood: I have this insatiable, insatiable passion
• 15:54
  to do things. Honestly, I like to, I like to work. And I mean,
• 15:59
  it could be whether I'm, you know, coming up with a new
• 16:02
  recipe. And I like to cook and I like to play with young
• 16:05
  grandson, I like to hang with my kids. I like to, you know,
• 16:09
  dance. I like to be on a board. And you know, I like to be
• 16:13
  challenged with very technical financing options and solutions
• 16:18
  and coming up with operations. I just, I like projects, and I can
• 16:23
  come up with a project all day long. So and that energises me
• 16:28
  feel connected. And so why am I almost 70 and not retired?
• 16:33
  Because I don't want to stop. So that's kind of where I am.
• 16:37
  Melinda Lee: And what are you excited about? The next decade?
• 16:40
  Debra Lockwood: You know, I'm excited about trying to smell
• 16:44
  the roses.
• 16:45
  Melinda Lee: Yeah,
• 16:46
  Debra Lockwood: you try and enjoy my faith. I'm trying to
• 16:50
  really offer more in my faith and try and get closer to things
• 16:55
  that are important to me and people that are important to me
• 16:58
  and seeing a softer side and I you know, just had my 50th class
• 17:01
  reunion this goodness, every show relaxed. I went, it's about
• 17:05
  time. You know, but that that's what I'm just trying to smell
• 17:09
  the roses. Enjoy that. Enjoy my new grandson. And hopefully,
• 17:13
  Sarah will have a grandchild for us soon. Oh, I hope so. I hope
• 17:17
  so. How was your dream really important? 2022 was a big year
• 17:22
  for us. We have a son and a daughter both got married? Yes,
• 17:25
  I've had a baby. So we've had a big 22. So
• 17:27
  Melinda Lee: how to smell the roses now. Oh, those babies will
• 17:31
  stop us. Stop Us and force us to smell the roses. And appreciate
• 17:36
  all those little things. Right when there's, they're curious.
• 17:39
  And it's so fun to see the world from through their eyes. Yes.
• 17:44
  And so it's a joy. That's awesome. So what? I had a
• 17:49
  question, what, What advice would you give to these heart
• 17:57
  centred our audience out there? Mainly heart centred leaders
• 18:00
  there, they're doing the best they can they want to do the
• 18:02
  right things. And they may have some doubt of what they're doing
• 18:05
  and do it Do I belong here? Does what I do matter. And they may
• 18:11
  not speak up as much. And so they're here to gather all the
• 18:15
  tools, the techniques, what are some things a piece of advice
• 18:18
  that you would give to these leaders to unleash that voice?
• 18:21
  And let
• 18:21
  Debra Lockwood: you know, I think I think number one, they
• 18:25
  need to find something that's going to make them happy in
• 18:29
  terms of mission, a connection to the mission, or a connection
• 18:32
  to the people who have a connection to the mission, which
• 18:35
  if you don't have a connection to the mission, but you have a
• 18:38
  connection to the people. And it's just another social
• 18:41
  opportunity that you can do something together and do
• 18:44
  something good, like Habitat for Humanity, humanity, right?
• 18:48
  People aren't necessarily on board, but they like doing that
• 18:51
  they need to build a house. But they still get involved. But
• 18:54
  it's about finding something that is a talent you don't mind.
• 18:58
  So if you I'm not very good with a hammer. So that's not my
• 19:01
  thing. But but you know, but I do I have gone out there to
• 19:05
  bring water but I don't do that. But finding something that you
• 19:08
  can connect to. And if you don't connect it, there are so many
• 19:14
  nonprofits out there. Just find think about something that you
• 19:18
  enjoy doing and find a nonprofit that fits it right and see if
• 19:23
  there's that culture there the leadership that's there and I
• 19:26
  mean, the management team, if you relate to them and feel
• 19:29
  comfortable then you are good to go. I have people that I know
• 19:32
  recently who started they were parents who liked a certain kind
• 19:36
  of international school and things went wrong with the
• 19:39
  school that was there before and the parents decided we're gonna
• 19:43
  do this ourselves. And they did it it's an fabulous school now
• 19:46
  so it's it's just about finding the right thing to do that that
• 19:50
  you relate to.
• 19:52
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, when you do for them like so they're not
• 19:54
  they don't have the right thing they don't know what do you
• 19:56
  think that will do for them when they do find it? What is it
• 19:59
  Debra Lockwood: I believe that you will find a burning in your
• 20:02
  soul that you didn't know you were trying to find. Yeah. And
• 20:07
  Heart Association for me was that, honestly, from a from a,
• 20:12
  from a civic perspective, it was the best civic thing I was
• 20:16
  involved in. And let it's still going. It was started in 96. And
• 20:21
  it's still going today. And for me, provendent helped me there
• 20:27
  too, because I was able to feed the beast of my, my profession
• 20:32
  and be challenged. You know, that way I be in Louisiana and
• 20:36
  speaking to, you know, bankers in New York, or attorneys in San
• 20:40
  Francisco, or wherever, and I'm still here. And but so I felt
• 20:45
  very challenged that way. And I enjoyed it. And at the same time
• 20:49
  making certain I mean, our motto is building communities. And
• 20:53
  community is a very generic term, a community can be defined
• 20:58
  as your classroom, it can be defined as a whole school, a
• 21:02
  whole community, a state, all the universities, XYZ, it can be
• 21:07
  defined a million ways. And that's what it is you find the
• 21:11
  community that you want to make a difference in and see how you
• 21:14
  can do it. And don't necessarily think that the first bite at the
• 21:19
  apple is going to work. You just finding them, you know, a lot of
• 21:22
  papers, a lot of there usually a lot of ads that talk about
• 21:25
  nonprofits that have things going for the next month, and
• 21:29
  you can just drop in and see what you thought. And try that
• 21:32
  interesting.
• 21:32
  Melinda Lee: And then when you have that fire, the difference
• 21:34
  between having the fire and not, when you find out then one
• 21:38
  thing, right and you have that fire, and you and you realise
• 21:42
  just how much you can push through. Because it's not going
• 21:45
  to work, although it's not going to work right away, but you
• 21:47
  realise and you see how much we could push through with that
• 21:50
  fire. You then get this look back and say, Wow, I did that.
• 21:54
  That was me. And I really feel that.
• 21:56
  Debra Lockwood: And so when you do it in a nonprofit world,
• 21:59
  yeah, yeah. Hence to make you feel more confident, because you
• 22:05
  don't necessarily when you're younger, push to be a leader,
• 22:11
  when you're 25, maybe not even when you're 30. And then at 40,
• 22:15
  you start realising Wow, to do something. But when you've got
• 22:20
  the experience in a non threatening way to take charge
• 22:26
  of something, then you realise, oh, I can do that in a work
• 22:30
  environment. It transfers, it's just skill set that can transfer
• 22:35
  and can do it in a way that does not make you feel that you're
• 22:40
  putting yourself at risk, financially or otherwise.
• 22:43
  Melinda Lee: Right. Awesome. And one last question. This is what
• 22:46
  I remember, I was gonna ask you, how has your faith supported you
• 22:51
  throughout this journey?
• 22:52
  Debra Lockwood: You know, the one thing about faith is
• 22:56
  trusting God, and to let it go. If something is we talked about
• 23:01
  difficult situation, and if that is not working for you, you have
• 23:05
  to know that it's bigger than you, and you do what you can and
• 23:10
  then you have to allow others to do it. i My faith has helped me
• 23:14
  to understand I can't control everything. I just can't. I have
• 23:18
  to allow it to be handled by others when it needs to be him.
• 23:21
  Melinda Lee: Right. Right. Right. So we do the best we can
• 23:25
  and something that when it doesn't work out what's bigger
• 23:27
  than us? It makes sense. That makes sense. Because there's a
• 23:30
  bigger plan, there could be a bigger reason than right. And I
• 23:34
  don't know that we don't honour. It always is when I look back at
• 23:38
  some of the things that I've gone through. I was like, oh,
• 23:40
  that's the reason why that happened. It's like, no, no, no,
• 23:44
  no, that's not supposed to be this way. But when you know,
• 23:47
  thinking back, and we can all reflect that all the things that
• 23:50
  we've gone through, you realise, you hope to realise that that
• 23:53
  was a reason. You connect the dots. And then they can also
• 23:58
  help us for going forward, what fires what lights or fire What,
• 24:01
  what's our path?
• 24:02
  Debra Lockwood: And just just I think just understanding that
• 24:07
  you're having an experience today, doing XYZ, because that's
• 24:12
  what you were expected to have is planned all along. You didn't
• 24:15
  even know that. You're having that experience. All those
• 24:19
  experiences add up and over time, you end up in a job like I
• 24:22
  did at provident and oh my goodness, I had no idea. This
• 24:26
  was even here, or this could be we created a company that I
• 24:28
  love. And so I think it's trust and it's also about well, I like
• 24:35
  a lot of projects and I don't mind doing hard work. I have to
• 24:39
  stop myself from doing too much. I really have to stop myself.
• 24:43
  I'm not really good at loud metal on its own. But my age has
• 24:47
  helped me to understand that I'm I'm taking away opportunities
• 24:52
  from others yes by trying to do it myself. So I really in the
• 24:57
  last several years 10-15 years just really, I enjoy being that
• 25:03
  servant here again, I want to be a teacher. I would love to do
• 25:07
  that, you know, to just show what I know not so much sure
• 25:10
  what I know, to help explain in a non threatening way if I'm not
• 25:15
  their boss anymore, it's easier. You know some, huh?
• 25:20
  Melinda Lee: Isn't that interesting when you're not the
• 25:22
  boss? It's a little different. But well, going back to what
• 25:25
  you're saying saying noticing Sarah, you're amazing powerhouse
• 25:29
  daughter was also on our podcast and we dig deep into that which
• 25:32
  was really cool. She She really has honed in when to say yes
• 25:37
  when to say no listening to our bodies. And because that is a
• 25:42
  sign of leadership when we can do that with, with certainty,
• 25:46
  saying no, and, and because like you said, when you say no to
• 25:50
  things, you're actually opening up opportunities for other
• 25:51
  things that are that are more in alignment right now with what
• 25:55
  you need. And so check out that the amazing podcast with Sarah.
• 26:00
  We're gonna dig into that. And, and so I think that's it. How
• 26:06
  old is your grand daughter or son?
• 26:08
  Debra Lockwood: It's a grand son, and he's six months old.
• 26:11
  And we are taking care of him four days a week. Right.
• 26:15
  Melinda Lee: Wonderful. Wonderful. What a blessing.
• 26:18
  Congratulation.
• 26:19
  Debra Lockwood: Thank you. We're very happy. Very blessed. Yeah.
• 26:23
  Melinda Lee: I think that's any last words.
• 26:26
  Debra Lockwood: You know, I would just as I was You were
• 26:29
  saying something, just now I thought there were a couple of
• 26:33
  everyday things that I think helped me keep myself in line
• 26:38
  when I tried to overdo. One of them is when you're on an
• 26:42
  aeroplane, you're supposed to put the oxygen on yourself
• 26:47
  before you put it on your child, right? So you have to take care
• 26:52
  of yourself, you have to learn how to take care of yourself.
• 26:57
  And the other is, you know, I I can remember just working myself
• 27:02
  to death. And I had two small children. I said, I don't want
• 27:06
  this job anymore. I literally walked away. I don't want this
• 27:11
  job because I thought I was only going to work an eight to 10
• 27:16
  hour day, not a 15 hour day. And I just walked out one day of the
• 27:21
  executive office and I said, You know what, there's nothing on my
• 27:23
  Melinda Lee: Right, right.
• 27:24
  Debra Lockwood: No, and that was that was 30 years ago. Mm hmm.
• 27:26
  headstone is gonna say Deborah Lockwood, X, Y, Z of y, z, z.
• 27:29
  Melinda Lee: Am I going to regret this? Am I going to
• 27:31
  It's just gonna say, wife, Bill, mother, Sarah and Adam, why am I
• 27:32
  regret this decision when I die? And most of the time that the
• 27:36
  doing this? And it really stopped me in my tracks.
• 27:36
  small decisions at work are not right. Or I mean, they're not
• 27:41
  the lifetime decisions. That that we're going to take to the
• 27:45
  grave and regret. It's usually more of the time we spent with
• 27:49
  our family the the meaningful conversation and learning how to
• 27:54
  say no using our voice to say no to things cultivating a lot of
• 27:59
  us are not speaking up. So cultivating the times that we
• 28:03
  need to just say no need to lead with our heart need to lead with
• 28:08
  compassion for yourself and for others.
• 28:12
  Debra Lockwood: Yes,
• 28:12
  Melinda Lee: yeah. Voice to do that. Awesome. Thank you so
• 28:15
  much, Deborah, and putting the oxygen mask on ourselves. That's
• 28:20
  key, right? And so how do we once we know what we need? How
• 28:23
  do we communicate that to others?
• 28:26
  Debra Lockwood: Right, right. Well, when you're in leadership,
• 28:28
  you get to say things like, I want to have HR policies that
• 28:32
  have a balance of a family and work period. And I did that
• 28:36
  years ago, and I had someone call me just the other day says,
• 28:40
  you mentored me, I was the best thing you ever did. And we do it
• 28:44
  now. And now we're, you know, one of the best places to be
• 28:47
  employed. So
• 28:49
  Melinda Lee: thank you so much for your help with helping us
• 28:53
  today. And also the community to the people around you, and
• 28:56
  sharing your knowledge with us.
• 28:58
  Debra Lockwood: Really appreciate it. Enjoyed it. Thank
• 29:01
  you