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STSE# 63: Behavioral Euthanasia · Sometimes There's Side Eye

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Welcome to Sometimes There's Side Eye, a podcast about two
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friends having real and unfiltered conversations about
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dogs and people listen as we talk about our lives with dogs,
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training, behavior, share some laughs and a whole lot of
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banter. I'm Heather.
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And I'm Christy. So this week we're going to talk
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about a difficult subject. So we do want to give a little
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bit of a trigger warning before we get started.
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We are going to be talking about behavioral euthanasia.
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So if that is something that is difficult for you, please feel
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free to, you know, wait till our next episode for for something a
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little happier. But I would encourage you, if
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you are up to it, to listen so that you can have some different
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insights on behavioral euthanasia, why it happens, how
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do you support your friends through it, things like that.
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So, Heather, you want to get us started?
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Do I want to get us started? Thanks so much, Christy.
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I suppose it's only fair because I thought this was, this was an
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important topic to talk about. And although you agree, you were
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not, neither one of us yet. We've been excited.
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We've, we've not been excited about, we've been putting it
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off. But it is something that both of
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us have experienced on different levels.
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And so I guess I'll start off kind of telling my personal
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story and we're gonna try to keep this episode brief 'cause I
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think it's gonna, it can be heavy at times and it can be
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heavy for people to listen to. But it, like I said, I think
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it's something important for people to kind of consider and
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think about. My personal story is about our
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lovely Rottweiler, Cash. And we adopted Cash when we
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moved to Arizona in 2010. He came to live with us and he
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was a young dog, probably around nine months old.
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And he was a lovely, lovely Rottweiler.
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Super social humans and dogs just like a really happy go
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lucky guy. I think I've described him in
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other episodes where he woke up every day and he was like, it's
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gonna be a great day. And that was Cash.
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I mean that is truly was his personality.
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And I have had people tell me over the years that Cash was the
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first rattler they really got to know and that he really endeared
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them to the breed. And that like just really kind
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of squeezes my heart a little bit because he, he was that dog.
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Cash lived safely and beautifully with our Pitbull
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girls over the years that had kind of come and gone.
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And he even was actually OK to be with Lucy, although Lucy was
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not OK to be with him. And so throughout the years, we
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just had like such a wonderful relationship with him and he was
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my husband's dog. Now when Cash was about 7 years
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old we had started to notice, I started to notice some things
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and this happened very quickly and I had a couple incidents
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with him where I was in close physical proximity to him and he
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was a very cuddly dog. He was if anybody knows male
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rottweilers like generally they are pretty cuddly and he fit the
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bill. We his nickname was little spoon
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because he loved to spoon with you.
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But I had noticed that he was starting to feel uncomfortable
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about close proximity with humans and I thought that a
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little strange. And having said that, you know,
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route Wheelers can get a little grumpier as they get older.
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And, you know, I can't we all. And so I just kind of took it in
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stride. He did have valley fever, which
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was in remission. But, you know, just take a note.
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Hey, he's not loving maybe being really cuddled or whatever.
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But I had a couple incidences within a couple weeks time where
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he did actually try to bite me and I wasn't doing anything that
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was overtly offensive. You know, it's not like I was
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coming on too strong or whatever.
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He just really was asking for space and it was an A pretty
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extreme reaction and very different than his normal
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personality. So that had happened.
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I talked about it with my husband.
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My husband wasn't really seeing that, but I was explaining to
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him when it happened that like he had this different look in
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his face. I it's hard to explain, but he
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just didn't seem right. And so then I think it was
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probably in the next couple weeks time he actually did go
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after one of our girls. I believe it was Layla or Remy,
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which they were like such benign dogs, like they were just like
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standing there and he was like out of nowhere.
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It was such an odd thing. And I saw it happen.
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And that was also very, very strange.
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And that was really the thing that made me say, no,
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something's going on here. So we took him to the vet.
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We ran blood work. Sometimes people say that if
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thyroid is off in Rottweilers, you can see some sudden
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aggression. We ran all the panels, we did
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full thyroid hoping that something would be off.
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In the meantime, we had a couple little small incidents and we
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found out that the blood work came back normal.
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We had our good friend who is also a vet come to see him and
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she agreed and just sort of said to us like it's not the same dog
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and we made the decision within a couple days to let him go.
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I truly believe in my heart of hearts that he had a brain
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tumor. I have no proof of that.
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We chose not to CT him because it wouldn't have changed the
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outcome for us. But I do believe that, but
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without knowing that, what I know for sure is that the dog
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that I knew was now showing aggressive behavior towards
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humans and dogs and that he was no longer safe because he was
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unpredictable. And so while I consider it a,
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you know, something that medically I think probably went
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wrong, I do say that he was a behavioral euthanasia.
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And I guarded that for a while because I didn't want anyone to
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remember cash that way. Right.
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Yeah. I wanted them to believe, to
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remember the dog that he truly was for the majority of his
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life. And so we really didn't talk
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about what happened to him for quite some I, I want to say it
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was like 6 months except for a few select people because one,
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it was really hard and it was really sad.
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Sure, but. Two, it just it felt like it was
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marrying his memory somehow. Yeah, tarnishing who he.
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Was yes, yes. And we just really didn't want
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to do that to him. Yeah.
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So that's like my personal story about a dog that we did end up
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having to euthanize. And so I just want to share that
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because I think that while there is a medical element, like
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that's not what pushed us to do it 'cause we didn't actually
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know we we did it because his behavior was unsafe.
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Yeah, absolutely. And my story is a little
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different because I think everybody knows about Jenny.
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And she black devil. For her, black devil for her.
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So she came as a Hospice dog to me, but she came with mammary
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tumors and what was believed to be bladder cancer.
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She didn't have bladder cancer. She just had memory tumors and
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so in the end, that's not actually what what got her.
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So I ended up euthanizing her because of her anxiety.
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As she progressed in my home, we we tried so many things.
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She was on quite a few medications, including
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medications for her anxiety. And then it was getting
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progressively worse to the point if I went in a different door,
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she would have meltdowns for days.
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Any, any small change in routine really threw her.
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And it got to a point where she tried to get something off the
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table and ended up moving the entire table.
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And I have a large table, you know, a tall table.
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And so she moved the entire table and she knocked down.
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I had Easter candy up there that oh.
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My gosh, I forgot about this. Yeah, and so the Easter candy, I
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mean, I had like 2 bags of Reese's peanut butter eggs, the
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good stuff, you know, for Easter baskets and things and some
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other chocolates. And she ate an entire bag of
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Reese's peanut butter eggs with wrappers on I'm, I believe.
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And then Lucy, thank goodness, took her Reese's Peanut butter
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egg and buried it Outback. Yeah, which it really saved her
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'cause she spent her time Outback burying things rather
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than eating it. And so at that point I realized
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that Jenny wasn't just like a danger to herself, she was also
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a danger to my own dog. Not, not in a mean way, but
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just, she couldn't be confined and she couldn't be trusted out
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at this point. And there's only so much you can
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do to, to provide a safety net and, and things happen.
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And so I, I felt like if something happened to Lucy
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because of Jenny, I would never forgive myself for that.
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Also, I do remember talking to our friend who's a vet and she
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gave me the kindest advice and she said she's she's not well.
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She's just not well in a way that you didn't expect.
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And she said it's just different.
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It's just a different, not well. And that was actually very
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comforting in knowing, OK, I am putting her down because she's
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not well. It's just not the health issue I
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expected to get in the end. Yeah, But it was still a really
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tough decision because I love Jenny.
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I mean, I had accepted that Jenny was mine, even though I
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never officially adopted her. She was 100% mine.
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And yeah, so when I did talk to the rescue, they they felt like
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I was making the right decision as well as we went through that.
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It's hard to sometimes when you are making this, the decision to
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euthanize a dog that has anxiety, you know, or has an
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issue like that because it feels different than oh, they have
11:38
cancer or oh, their legs go out and they can't stand up anymore.
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But I actually think that when we make the choice for a dog
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like Jenny or a friend who had a dog who had high level anxiety
11:57
as well and, and couldn't be trusted, she just, she was
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outside her own head, you know, she just was.
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So she was tortured. It it's in some ways more of a
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gift. Like, I feel like it's this
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piece that they do not have as a living, however you want to
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think of it as a living soul on earth.
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And there is something to be said for giving a soul piece,
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you know? Yeah.
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And I would say I 100% agree with you on that because in
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fact, the vet, you know, they checked, they put them down, but
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then they checked to make sure that they're really gone.
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And then they tell you and I said she's gone before.
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The vet said that. And the vet said, well, oh, no,
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I don't think. And then they go, oh, she is
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gone. And they said I could tell
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because she was finally at peace.
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And the vet said, oh, it's been a while then.
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And so, yeah, it's been a long time since she's been at peace.
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Yeah, and that's tough stuff, you know, because we want to fix
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our dogs. We want our dogs to be well, we
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want to give them everything we want to make give them the best
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life possible. But you know, I was just re
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listening to one of our episodes and we had a guest on that said,
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you know, there are far worse fates for a dog than a peace,
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peaceful euthanasia. And I mean, sometimes that is
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the sad, sad truth of it. And we as humans struggle with
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that way more than the dog does. The dog is at peace.
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The dog is quote, UN quote gone or however you want to define
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that. But we struggle with the
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aftermath and the what ifs and the what could we have done?
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And that's really tough stuff for us to live with.
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And that's why I wanted to do this episode because I know
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that's hard stuff. And I I know that like the what
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ifs are sometimes very difficult to handle.
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There is always another. I could have, I could have, I
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could have. Could have I should have?
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Yep. But at what point do you also
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matter? At what point does your life
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also matter? And at what point are all of
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those I could have, I should have possibly prolonging
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something that that could really have a peaceful end and the dog
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could not have to live with anxiety or, or whatever, you
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know, whatever different issues are going on.
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Yeah. And I know our, our experiences
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are different than some other demographics of behavioral
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euthanasia for sure. Because there are people who
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have a dog who has bitten 4 times in four years or, you
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know, four times in three years. And then they're thinking, OK,
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but there's this unpredictability and how bad
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does the bite have to be before you think it's dangerous for
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society or dangerous for yourself or unpredictable
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enough? And in those situations, what I
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do want to say, I think something that's lost in those
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situations a lot of times is even if a dog has bitten someone
15:23
once, a. Year.
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Every year of. Its life that means that every
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other day of its of that year, it hasn't done that.
15:33
Like it's, it's a beloved family member.
15:35
A lot of times it's part of the family.
15:38
It's, it's this cherished being in our life.
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And so sometimes we hear things like that where we're like, the
15:47
dog has four bites, the dog has five bites for the bites.
15:50
Like how? Could you not just do it, do
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something about it, Yeah. And I hear a lot of people say
15:56
they just need to put that dog to sleep.
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What I would say if you are somebody who is hearing your
16:04
friend out on maybe they're venting to you or they're
16:08
revealing the struggle that they have, if you are not directly
16:13
impacted by their decision and they are not asking for your
16:17
opinion, please don't give it. Just listen.
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Just listen. I have found in so many
16:23
different areas of life, people want to give their opinion when
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it has no bearing on their life directly.
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And I would say maybe this is a time that we step back and say,
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you know what, What are you feeling?
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What would you like to do? What are your thoughts about it?
16:40
How can I support you? Yeah, how can I?
16:43
Support you. Yeah.
16:45
Absolutely. And and if you don't feel like
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you are a person that can be supportive, then just listen.
16:51
And you don't need to give like you don't need to give feedback.
16:56
You can literally just listen and say something as simple as
16:59
I'm really sorry you're going through this.
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Yeah, yeah. And, and it is interesting
17:05
because I've always been somebody who says, oh, if my dog
17:08
bit someone, I would immediately.
17:10
I would put that dog down immediately.
17:12
But it's funny because Jenny, actually, when I picked her up
17:16
one day, she snapped around and tried to bite my face and she
17:20
nicked my face because of the angling.
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She didn't go to get a good bite on there, but she bit me in the
17:26
face. Yeah, and immediately I was
17:30
like, well, what can you expect? Like she didn't mean it.
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She's sick. She's making I.
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Wrapped her wrong, yeah. I, you know, I put her in.
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I should have done it this way. It's my fault immediately for a
17:40
doc like that. I haven't had its whole life
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that had only been with me, I think a year or six months when
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it happened. And so we kind of have to expect
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that from other people too. Like, OK, here are these these
17:55
unusual circumstances. So it only happened because of
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these things. And then it happens a year later
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and it's like, well, but these things happen.
18:02
But this? Time.
18:03
It was these circumstances, yeah, yeah.
18:06
Because it's our, it's our dog, Yeah.
18:09
And the nobody is debating over a dog who's bad 100% of the
18:15
time, who's violent, maybe not bad, but violent 100% of the
18:20
time or 98% of the time. Where that battle comes in is
18:23
when they're this amazing dog. 99.
18:27
Percent of the time and then this 1% there's just a switch
18:32
that. Happens because that
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unpredictability is, is the problem, is the true problem.
18:38
And I mean, we have been, I was on a board of directors for a
18:44
local rescue when we had two situations with dogs that we had
18:49
put through our rescue. And one of them was truly a 99%
18:56
of the time dog. And I was truly in love with
18:59
this dog. And he had had a rough start in
19:02
life. And not that that matters.
19:05
It's not an excuse, but like it does endear us as humans to make
19:10
to make us feel even worse, right?
19:12
And I was super involved with his adoption, with his
19:16
acclamation to his new family. These people did everything
19:21
right. They were patient.
19:23
They spent hours upon hours upon hours visiting this dog doing
19:30
parallel walks with their own dog to to acclimate their the
19:34
dogs together. I mean there was so much that
19:38
was done to set this dog up for success.
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We truly believed this was it, like this is it and it was it
19:47
for a long time until. It and this is a whole I would
19:51
personally choose my dog to go to.
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Yeah, this is not just a like, can you please?
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These are like people who don't get dog behavior.
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I'm like, no, how do you feel about my dog going to you in a
20:04
will? Yeah, exactly.
20:06
And so unfortunately, the 1% of the time happened and he bit
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someone and it was significant enough is what we will say.
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And the decision was made to euthanize him.
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And I stand by that decision day after day after day.
20:27
It was the right thing to do, but that doesn't mean that it's
20:32
any less difficult. It doesn't mean that it hurts
20:36
any less for anyone who is involved, especially the family
20:40
that fell in love with him and worked so hard to integrate him
20:44
safely. And not even safely because he
20:46
wasn't unsafe. We didn't know this was going to
20:48
happen, but integrating him seamlessly into their lives.
20:52
At the end of the day, though, he was unpredictable in those
20:57
moments, and that was something that was discovered once he had
21:02
consistency. It's really unfortunate how it
21:05
sort of came out. A dog who had been shuffled
21:08
around and had inconsistency his whole life.
21:12
Once the consistency was there and people who actually
21:15
understood his behavior, that is when the problems truly cropped
21:20
up and were, I think because then we could actually see
21:24
patterns. And so that was a situation in
21:31
some ways that was harder than cash, not only because cash like
21:38
lived a really long life with us and we knew how good his life
21:43
with us was. It was cut short for sure for.
21:46
Sure, yeah. But with this other dog is like
21:50
damn like he had just found his soft place to land like.
21:56
It he had just hit the lottery. He had just hit the lottery.
22:00
Yeah, yeah. It was really sad, but it taught
22:03
me a lot. It did.
22:06
It taught me a lot about talking to people about this subject and
22:13
supporting people in this subject that sometimes no matter
22:17
what we do right, we have no control over what is wired in
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that dog's brain. We just don't, and ultimately
22:27
that's what's going to show. It's such a sad subject, but I
22:33
think it's also, if you have someone in your life that's
22:37
going through it, be available to them without judgement as
22:41
well, because it feels really lonely I think for people.
22:45
I was very lucky in that for two reasons.
22:48
One, everyone was expecting that Jenny was going to pass, so
22:52
nobody questioned me about her passing.
22:55
It just added up that a foster, a Hospice foster would
23:00
eventually be euthanized, yes, but I also by that time had safe
23:05
outlets to communicate what was what actually happened without
23:09
feeling judged. So I feel very lucky in both of
23:12
those ways to not be judged and to to have people to talk to
23:17
about it. So being maybe that person, if
23:21
hopefully you don't know anyone who has to go through this,
23:25
hopefully you never have to go through this yourself.
23:28
But if you are of that small percentage that knows someone or
23:32
has to go through it yourself, then be that kindness that you
23:36
want to. I would also say like, God
23:39
forbid you do after ever have to go through this, you don't owe
23:44
anyone anything. You don't owe social media an
23:49
explanation. You don't owe anyone in your
23:54
life an explanation. And if there was ever a time to
24:00
skirt the truth or omit something, I would say it is
24:07
this time because I think a lot of people, we share so much in
24:12
this day and age. And so people feel compelled,
24:15
right, to say like what the illness was or what the
24:20
circumstances were or how did it happen and everything that you
24:24
did to, to try to save them, right?
24:28
I personally think that simply saying that Fluffy, shall we
24:35
say, had an illness and Fluffy succumbed to that illness in
24:41
whatever wording you want to use, I think it is absolutely
24:45
appropriate because it's not a lie.
24:47
It is true. A dog that is in the state that
24:52
requires A behavioral euthanasia, no matter the
24:55
circumstances, I don't care if it's a bite, anxiety, human
24:59
aggression, like whatever the reason, if you are to that point
25:03
and you're making that decision, that dog is ill.
25:06
And like you said earlier with Jenny, it might not be cancer or
25:11
whatever the, the, the way you think it's going to happen, but
25:15
it is still an illness. And it's OK just to say Fluffy
25:19
had a long illness and we made the decision to euthanize her,
25:24
and she has. Passed.
25:25
Yeah, or I had one friend who it wasn't even of behavioral
25:30
euthanasia or anything like that, but she did put she had to
25:34
be euthanized or we lost her. I can't remember how she put it.
25:37
She said it, it, it was a very traumatic situation for our
25:41
family and we would not like to talk about it at this time.
25:44
And then when I saw her about a month later, we were talking and
25:49
I said, did you do you want to talk about what happened or, or
25:53
would you like to not you know what, where are you at?
25:56
And she said, no, I'd like to talk with you about what
25:59
happened. Like I'm OK talking through it
26:01
now. 'Cause you're a safe space.
26:03
I was a safe space and and it wasn't a behavioral issue.
26:06
It was just it was truly an unexpected death of their dog.
26:11
But also give people the freedom to say, you know, as time goes
26:16
on, did you need somebody to talk to you about that or do you
26:20
want to keep that close to your heart?
26:22
And that's OK? Either response is fine.
26:25
Yeah, I would agree. I think it's also important if
26:29
you are potentially going through making this decision to
26:33
have a veterinary team that can support you.
26:37
And I think that sometimes that requires some boundaries because
26:44
that staff want to save everybody, right?
26:46
They didn't get into to being a vet tech or being a veterinarian
26:51
to do anything but try to help dogs.
26:53
And sometimes it gets lost on this subject, right?
26:57
Because they're just so compassionate.
26:59
And so I would, I would trust your gut on that and, and make
27:04
sure that you have a good support system if this is a road
27:08
that you have to go down and, and make sure that you can have
27:11
some boundaries there to keep your keep your heart as safe as
27:14
possible because that can also be a tough Rd.
27:19
Another thing we want to share is that if you are going through
27:22
this, you're not alone. There's actually, it's called
27:25
Losing Lulu. It's on Facebook.
27:27
Is that right? Yeah, yeah.
27:29
And that's a group of people who have lost their dog to
27:33
behavioral euthanasia. So it is a community of like
27:37
minded people who are willing to support and who have been
27:41
through the same same experience, a different probably
27:44
experience, but the same end outcome.
27:47
And so that is a really safe, supportive place.
27:50
If you're finding that you're without support in your
27:53
day-to-day life, or if you need additional support, that is a
27:57
safe space. It's a really, really good group
28:01
of people that has unfortunately grown really quickly over the
28:05
last 10 years or so, but they do a really good job of moderating.
28:11
You know, you're always kind of unsure about recommending a
28:14
Facebook group, but they do an excellent, consistent job of
28:19
clear moderation and you cannot discuss on that group if you are
28:24
thinking about doing it. This is purely a place for you
28:28
to get support after the fact and have people around you that
28:32
understand the process and and what it, the decision making
28:37
process and then the aftermath. I find it to be.
28:41
I'm a member of the group, I participate and I have for many
28:45
years and I continue to find it a supportive place for people to
28:51
go. I would advise if you want to
28:54
join that group, make sure you answer the entrance questions
28:56
because you will not get in if you don't answer them.
28:59
So I'll just put that that in there.
29:01
Make sure you answer the questions or they won't let you
29:04
in. But it's very easy.
29:06
And once you're in, I think you can find, find a community of
29:10
people across the world who have been through the same
29:13
experiences, just different details.
29:16
And it can be a really good place to find some support and
29:19
and some people. Yeah, and losing a dog,
29:23
regardless of the circumstances, is always difficult.
29:27
Yes, and always traumatic. And I would say that grief is
29:33
grief is grief. And when grief is coupled with
29:36
trauma, in some ways it is more difficult.
29:40
And so if you find yourself in a position where you are truly
29:45
struggling, get help. You know, go to a professional,
29:50
do not be embarrassed. Find a therapist or counselor,
29:54
support group, whatever works for you that can get you
29:59
through. You are not alone.
30:01
This stuff is heavy and it's difficult.
30:03
And the more we love our dogs, the harder we love our dogs, the
30:07
more difficult it is. So never feel embarrassed.
30:11
Yes, if you've enjoyed this episode, subscribe, rate and
30:19
share us wherever you get your podcast.
30:22
Also come on over to Instagram and engage with us at Sometimes
30:26
Their Side Eye. Thanks for listening everybody.
30:28
Talk to you next time. Bye bye.