Latest / The Jon and Marc Podcast / The $6 Million Signal: Analyzing the Social Media Addiction Verdict

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The $6 Million Signal: Analyzing the Social Media Addiction Verdict · The Jon and Marc Podcast

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  Their playbook I I don't feel like is very defensible.
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  Yeah, I, I don't think it played well in front of the jury and I
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  don't think it will in future trials.
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  It was the playbook we always see, right?
• 0:10
  It's it's blame the victim. And then when that didn't work,
• 0:13
  it was throw their hands up and say, hey, these experts that we
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  paid to tell us we were doing everything right said we were
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  doing everything right. Welcome back.
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  To Tort talk. Today we are talking about the
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  social media addiction trial that resolved last week.
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  We finally had a verdict. We're going to be talking about
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  Bard power port, hair relaxer, talc, and NEC.
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  And to kick things off first, let's start with Bard Power
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  port. We have the first bellwether
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  trial starting April 21st. Ton of activity going on in this
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  MDL. Joe, can you tell us what people
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  can expect from this first bellwether trial and what's been
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  happening over the past couple of months?
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  Like you mentioned, John, we're a little over three weeks out
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  from this initial bellwether trial.
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  It's like everybody knows a crucial moment in this MDL.
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  We have about 3000 cases pending.
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  The litigation's been going on for a couple years.
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  We just heard from the judge on the all important Dolbert
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  rulings. Most of our experts were able to
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  get in and they survived. We challenged one of the
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  regulatory experts for the defendants and what they always
• 1:16
  like to try to do is say that the device was approved by the
• 1:20
  FDA, therefore it's safe. But really that approval from
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  the FDA doesn't say it's safe. It's just saying that it it can
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  be used and that it's met the FDA requirements.
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  So we have the initial rather that the final pretrial
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  conference coming up, that's on April 9th.
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  Then we have everything teed up for the trial.
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  We'll have a couple days for the jury selection.
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  We'll get things started. I think we're looking at about a
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  two to three-week trial here. So come mid-May we'll have a
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  result. Hopefully we'll get a positive
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  ruling in this case. These cases can be challenging,
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  but a lot of attention obviously towards the first bellwether
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  trial. Clicks and web traffic don't
• 2:00
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• 2:04
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• 2:10
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• 2:13
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  level distance, visit rrdigitalmediacom For more
• 2:27
  information. Now back to the show.
• 2:29
  Some more trials coming up too in NEC.
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  We've got trial in Cook County with four families who had a
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  necrotizing enterocolitis with their newborn children.
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  What can we expect in that trial?
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  Yeah, we're about a month into this trial.
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  So this was a joint plaintiff trial.
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  So there's four different families that all unfortunately
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  have their children develop the NEC.
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  We know these trials are really long, so we probably have at
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  least another two weeks or another month to come in this
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  trial. We started recently hearing from
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  some of the mothers testifying. Obviously this is very traumatic
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  for them. It talks and the defendants are
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  trying to focus on blaming the mothers for some of their
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  medical conditions, some of their history that led to these
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  conditions. So we're getting some really
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  impactful testimony. We still have to get through all
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  the experts to connect that specific case causation, but
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  this is in state court where we previously had a $60 million
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  verdict in Illinois. So we're hoping for another
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  positive result with multiple plaintiffs.
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  We could see some really big numbers, not any great
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  developments recently out of the MDL.
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  So hopefully we can turn the tide and get momentum on our
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  side with the positive ruling in this state court action.
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  Are you? Still seeing people acquire NEC
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  cases. People are still getting NEC
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  cases, not not a huge amount of activity in the MDL.
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  There's still under 800 cases pending there.
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  So most of the action really is centered in state court, but not
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  a huge case that people are acquiring right now.
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  Let's move on to a case that has the opposite a ton of potential
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  claimants that are involved in that MDL with Hair Relax there.
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  We've got almost 12,000 cases currently pending in that MDLA.
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  Bunch of crucial developments going on.
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  What's happening in the Hair? Relax litigation, Joe.
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  Yeah. So the first thing is the
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  Dahlberg hearing. So like everybody knows besides
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  the bellwether trial, this is the most important part of the
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  any litigation. So we're going to have the
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  Dahlberg hearings coming up and then we should expect a ruling
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  from the judge, I'd probably say 60 to 90 days.
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  So what's unique about this litigation is we have three
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  different injuries, 3 different cancers that we're trying to
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  proceed. We have ovarian, uterine and
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  endometer metrial. So we want to make sure that the
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  experts get through in each one of those.
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  So that's going to be huge for the outcome.
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  We have about 80 to 85% of the inventory involves uterine and
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  endometrial, 15% ovarian. So we're going to hear from our
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  experts. Hopefully we come through,
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  survive that. As long as all the cancers are
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  intact, we're looking in a good place.
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  And what's going on simultaneously, as initially we
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  had a group of 32 bellwether plaintiffs that's getting
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  chopped down to 10. So how the judge is doing it in
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  this case is 2 plaintiff picks, 2 defense picks, and then 6
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  picks from the court. So we'll have those 10 cases get
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  worked up. Depositions, expert testimony,
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  Dr. Deposition all the way through, hopefully get us to the
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  first trial, this time in 2027. And then one that's even bigger
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  than hair relaxer. We have talc.
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  Which has, I believe currently the largest mass tort in the
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  country, correct? Yeah, that's correct.
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  Over 65,000 cases. A ton and people are still
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  acquiring talc cases. There's been a flurry of
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  activity over the past month. What can you tell us about talc?
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  Yeah. So talc, it hasn't been great
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  for the plaintiffs, to be honest with you.
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  We we had a huge punitive damages award that was struck
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  down. The compensatory damages still
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  stood in that case about 16,000,000.
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  And then also there's been the fighting between Beasley, Allen
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  and J&J in this litigation. Initially, they got stripped of
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  their leadership position in New Jersey State court, and then
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  more recently, the MDL judge as well stripped them as their
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  leadership position in the MDL. So it's unfortunate we're having
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  this fighting between law firms, really not focused on the
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  plaintiffs as much and those injured.
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  But what we do have is a positive development.
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  There's supposed to be a settlement meeting going on on
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  April 13th. So settlement negotiations and
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  mediation have been ongoing for a while.
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  But anytime we have a date scheduled for that, we're
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  excited about it. Hopefully we can get some more
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  momentum going. I don't think we're going to get
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  a global right now, but if we can start making some steps
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  towards that, that would be great for everybody involved.
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  Yeah, what a coincidence. The day before the start of
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  MTMP. Yeah, I bet people will be
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  talking about it. Yeah, I'm sure.
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  I'm sure one of the other items that people are going to be
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  talking about at MTNP is definitely this huge verdict
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  that we had last week in the social media addiction trial.
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  We had a $6 million verdict after about a week of
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  deliberations by the jury, 3 million in punitive.
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  It was I, I think, a win for the plaintiffs.
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  What's your take on it? Oh, definitely a win for us and
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  we got both, like you said, compensatory and punitive
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  damages. Obviously we would have liked
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  the higher number for the plaintiffs.
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  She's been through so much. But what I think this showed us
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  is that we can win these cases. The 230 immunity that's done,
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  that's not an issue and the jury agrees with us the conduct of
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  their defendants was willful. It's it is going to result in
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  punitive damages. So I think there's going to be a
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  lot of momentum building here. I also think that the number was
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  what I'll call reasonable from the defendant's perspective.
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  It's not a nuclear verdict like they like to say of $950
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  million. It's going to stand up on
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  appeal. So this is a number and a jury
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  verdict that's going to stand. And this is what a case of a
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  similar situation. We know we can get that number
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  at trial. So a lot of people are acquiring
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  these cases. Everybody's going to be talking
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  about it. There's more and more pressure
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  coming on these, you know, big tech companies.
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  I think we could get a settlement sooner rather than
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  later. Still probably a year out
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  because of the complexity of these cases and how many plans
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  there could be. But it was a great day after the
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  trial, the year we've been hyping up for months and months
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  and months to to see that plan of.
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  Verdict. You were.
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  Talking earlier about how we could use this as a way to
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  understand what the defenses playbook is going to be in
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  upcoming trials. We've talked about that in Uber
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  and now we're talking about it in social media addiction and
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  their playbook. I, I don't feel like is very
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  defensible, right? If you, you breakdown, but well,
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  let's take a step back here, right?
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  There were actually 4 defendants.
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  We had two that settled out right before trial snap and
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  TikTok settled out. So we don't know how they would
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  have handled it, but we know that YouTube's claim was, hey,
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  we're not a social media network right now.
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  Maybe that helped get them the, the 3070 split that wound up
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  resolving in the split of the damages.
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  But the reality is that YouTube Shorts is you're really similar
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  to TikTok, very similar to Reels on Instagram.
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  And YouTube, being a part of Google, actually has a ton more
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  data about people than the other social media networks do.
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  And I think we heard from the jury that defense doesn't make
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  sense. It doesn't make sense that
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  YouTube isn't a social media company.
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  It is maybe it's a little less, but but it definitely is.
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  So I I think that defense is out and really all we have left is
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  what matter was trying to do at the trial.
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  How do you think that defense stands up like their their
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  claims are that we did what we could do to protect.
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  And you know, we we follow the guidelines of the experts that
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  we brought in to help us protect people.
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  And they they really didn't have anything to push back against
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  when Mark Lanier was you're putting papers in front of
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  Zuckerberg's face. Saying look here.
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  Here is the proof. Yeah, I, I don't think it played
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  well in front of the jury and I don't think it will in future
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  trials. It was the playbook we always
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  see, right. If it's it's blame the victim.
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  It was blaming the the young girl who was using the platform
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  at six. It was blaming her mother.
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  It was blaming her family. And then when that didn't work,
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  it was throw their hands up and say, hey, these experts that we
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  paid to tell us we were doing everything right, said we were
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  doing everything right. Don't mind this study that we
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  could have done 15 years ago, Don't mind this alert, don't
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  mind this internal e-mail saying that this was a problem.
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  So it's a playbook we see time and time again in these mass
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  torts and it just doesn't play well because they could have
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  done something back then. They could do something right
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  now. They could do something tomorrow
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  to end this and change it. But they won't because they're
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  making so much money. So they're going to need any
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  time to implement these changes and make business decisions
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  before they ultimately and come to the table and settle.
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  I don't want to throw out a number right now for how much
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  it's going to cost them, but we're looking at billions of
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  dollars, probably 10 plus billion to get out of this at
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  the end of the day. More or less than the market cap
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  that was wiped out last week after the verdict.
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  Well, much less because they lost 200 billion in about a day.
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  So, you know where plaintiffs are only going to walk away with
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  what, 10 billion. So that's nothing to them
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  unfortunately. But it's, it's more about
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  getting the money and then making the changes to these
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  platforms. And we're really going to hold
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  our line on that and see that both of them are done.
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  But it's it's going to take a little bit of a while to get
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  there. For those of you who don't know
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  what I'm talking about, last week, the day after the the
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  verdict came out, Joe was on LinkedIn talking about the meta.
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  Stock drop. And the financial impact of the
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  decisions that Zuckerberg and his team have made over the past
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  decade about how the platform is evolving.
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  How much of that do you think is is directly correlative to the
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  verdict and how much is related to just the broader market that
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  we're seeing right now due to the political climate?
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  Oh, I would say at least half, right.
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  It came, it came out the very next day and you didn't see
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  those similar type drops from the other ones TikTok snapshot.
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  So definitely big text taking a little bit ahead in the
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  environment. But it was the day after it
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  happened immediately it was more significant than we seen with
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  anybody else. And unfortunately, that's what
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  drives these settlements is not what's happening in the
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  courtroom, but what happens in the boardroom.
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  So they'll start getting pressure from there.
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  We'll keep going in the boardroom, boardroom, try to get
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  some legislative pressure as well.
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  Then ultimately we'll see a change.
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  But it's, it's not going to happen tomorrow.
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  We we still have a little bit while to go in this case.
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  It was also interesting the day. After that verdict.
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  I noticed that there were many, many lead generators who all of
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  a sudden are starting to to attempt to acquire social media
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  addiction cases. They were everywhere.
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  They're everywhere. So just be careful if you're
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  looking into that, be careful. Make sure you know where the
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  cases are coming from. Make sure you're using the real
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  criteria. So reach out to John, reach out
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  to me if you guys have a question about it.
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  We've been involved for a long time, John longer than me, so he
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  knows it really well. Because what we want to do is we
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  want to help the kids at the end of the day.
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  So don't get taken advantage of. There's plenty of time left, but
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  reach out to one of us and and we'll give you some honest
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  information. Yeah, I was talking to the
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  Lanier team the day after the verdict and they were just
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  inundated with inquiries from people who saw it on the news,
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  saw Mark Lanier, you know, read the articles in the newspaper
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  and they said, wow, like now really, I can actually do
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  something about this. It was kind of a pipe tune for
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  people for a long time, right? Like, oh, your, your children
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  may be addicted to social media. You blame social media, but now
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  it's a reality, right? So there are a lot of cases that
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  I think are coming out of the woodwork so to speak that are
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  there. This is a nationwide, you know.
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  Epidemic. So to speak.
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  I definitely encourage anyone you know, you could reach out to
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  me directly. I can connect you with the
• 14:23
  linear team. If you do have cases in your
• 14:25
  local market, that is who you want betting these cases.
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  And then I think with any litigation like you, Joe is
• 14:31
  right. You want to make sure that you
• 14:32
  have the right partner on other litigations.
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  Reach out to Joe Joe can help you get cases placed if you find
• 14:38
  them in your local market. And you need to know who the
• 14:40
  best the best firms are for cases to go to.
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  No better man than the man sitting right next to me, Joe
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  Fantini. Yeah, it's an important issue
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  and we want to help the clients so that that's what we're trying
• 14:51
  to do at the end of the day. But it's important topic and
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  it's been proven now, so we've got to keep wishing and and get
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  it finally resolved and change is implemented.
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  Yep, Yep. Absolutely, definitely prime for
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  for any of the Pi attorneys out there who are watching this,
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  talk to your existing client base.
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  It's great for newsletter, it's great for some social media
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  posts. Maybe you won't get hundreds of
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  cases or dozens of cases, but you may get may be able to find
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  people who have had some of these issues who are already
• 15:19
  past clients of yours. You can get them retained and
• 15:21
  then refer them over whether it's a linear or the firm of
• 15:25
  your choice. And you can really do that with
• 15:26
  many different cases types when, when things hit major news
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  cycles, look to your existing client base first and you will
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  find that there are people who have been affected.
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  The larger firm you are obviously the larger past client
• 15:37
  base that you have. It's always a great marketing
• 15:39
  pool for you. Yeah, that that's a good tip
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  because those people know, like and trust you already.
• 15:44
  You're sitting on a ton of cases I'm I'm sure.
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  All right, Joe, anything further to add on the social media
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  addiction verdict? Now looking forward to seeing
• 15:51
  everybody at mass toward made perfect.
• 15:53
  We'll we'll be there live. So we'll be bringing you guys
• 15:56
  the latest updates, kids, on that case and any other
• 15:59
  developments between then and what we're hearing on the ground
• 16:02
  there. I've already.
• 16:03
  Got some great episodes lined up for MTMP.
• 16:05
  You know, there's there's a couple of big announcements that
• 16:08
  are coming at the conference who will be sure to cover those and
• 16:10
  share with you all as quickly as possible.
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  As always, Joe, thank you again. Normally the best 10 minutes in
• 16:15
  mass towards we went 7 minutes over this week.
• 16:17
  We will see everybody at MTMP and we'll catch you next week on
• 16:20
  Tortalk.