Latest / The Business of Alignment - Powered by The E1B2 Collective / Unpacking Employer Branding #1 w/ Cameron Cooper of Unite Us

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Unpacking Employer Branding #1 w/ Cameron Cooper of Unite Us · The Business of Alignment - Powered by The E1B2 Collective

• 0:02
  There it is. All right, Cameron, I appreciate
• 0:04
  you joining this podcast. It's been a long time coming.
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  We had some technology issues here on my end, which I realized
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  for the listeners, there's a USB cord that's connected to these
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  plasm TV's that people do now to kind of like have like multiple
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  computers all set up. And I didn't know that one of
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  them had to come out so I could actually hear what was happening
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  because they don't have, they don't have what do we call these
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  things, microphones or things that things for sound to come
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  out. But anyway, I appreciate you
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  coming onto this podcast, would love to know a little bit more
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  about yourself, your background, what you do.
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  And then we'll hop in and and I'll share my thoughts and ask
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  you a few questions. Yeah, for sure.
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  Thanks for having me. Anthony Cooper.
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  I manage recruiting, operations and employer branding for a
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  company called Unite US. We're kind of in the social care
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  tech realm, helping communities get linked up to social care,
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  and in my background's a little bit untraditional.
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  I started out in management consulting and kind of worked on
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  the research side, eventually moved into agency recruiting
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  agencies, sometimes call their sorcerers research analysts,
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  especially. We do executive search so.
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  Kind of having that research background and understand how to
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  find things. Kind of applied to finding
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  candidates, So kind of fell into recruiting, did that for a few
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  years and then eventually wanted to go in house and that's how I
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  came across United US. I started out as just a
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  recruiter, kind of like working on different roles, whether it
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  was sales or OPS or technology, and then became a tech recruiter
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  fully there and then eventually moved up into the recruiting
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  operations, employer branding side because I really liked.
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  Operationalizing things, turning strategies into like actual
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  concrete things and also understanding like how we can
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  maximize on can experience and town attraction overall.
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  Let me ask you this. This is outside the box here and
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  that's what happened a lot. I'll just start randomly asking
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  questions. My ADD will kick in, which I
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  actually do have. Not a joke, you shouldn't joke
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  about it anyway, but for the listeners that know, I actually
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  do have a DD, so it may pop up throughout this conversation.
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  So my first one do you feel wet back when you were recruiting?
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  Do you feel that having an experience in product or having
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  an experience in sales or having an experience in marketing
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  should be a prerequisite or should be some sort of
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  expectation if you're going to be excelling at recruiting for
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  those type of roles? Or do you find a good recruiter
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  has the ability to learn things enough to be dangerous at a high
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  level to be able to speak, you know confidently about it and
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  they can really just blanket any role?
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  What are your thoughts on it? That's a great question, I
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  think. I think you can go either way.
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  I will say sometimes you do see salespeople pivot to recruit and
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  they're kind of sick of kind of like the whole sales grind and
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  they want to get into something else that's still very, like
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  communicative towards people. But I think, I think it can help
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  because you know the function, you know what happens in that
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  particular realm, and you can articulate that to a candidate
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  like. For example, like when I was in
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  management consulting where we worked with a lot of companies,
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  a lot of department team kind of know how business works.
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  So you kind of have a general overview things are.
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  But like any granularity, let's say like it is a product
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  management role, not everyone knows what that is.
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  It's very typical for just a SaaS company and so understand
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  kind of like the nitty gritties and what happens day-to-day.
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  I think can really help tell the kind of like what we're doing
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  specifically at an organization. But I definitely think like a
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  lot of conversations with hiring managers, with the people that
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  they're supporting can get them up to speed, maybe not as
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  quickly, but almost at that same level in a timely fashion.
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  And it can probably also could probably also increase the
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  likelihood of closing on a candidate right where if you're
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  able to, if you're able to confidently speak about
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  something tactically and strategically and and from a
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  sales perspective and empathize with a particular scenario you
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  might throw at that candidate. It might make them feel more
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  comfortable speaking to you which may inevitably show the
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  best version of themselves. Right.
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  Because I think And then this next another question to you, my
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  one of my last ADD random questions because it's not on
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  the agenda. But I've always felt that it's a
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  recruiter's job to try to make that candidate feel as
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  comfortable and as psychologically safe as
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  possible. Because I feel like and maybe
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  you've done this. I feel like there's been a lot
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  of recruiters that have turned down applicants based off of how
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  they performed during the interview when if you were
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  really to just get a get a cocktail after hours with that
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  with that recruiter, they probably would have said this is
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  a really good candidate. They were probably just super
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  nervous and I couldn't get past that.
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  But if you really were just like sit back, have a cocktail,
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  really get to know that person, they probably would have crushed
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  the interview. So I don't know if you have
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  thoughts on that from the perspective of learning more
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  about what you are, the business unit you are recruiting for, to
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  make that person feel more psychologically safe so that you
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  get the best version of themselves throughout that
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  interview to give yourself and that applicant the best chance
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  to land the role. What are your thoughts and all
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  that? Yeah, I think, I think it comes
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  down to trust and credibility. You have to be credible enough
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  to really speak fluidly in in terms of like what we're doing.
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  Like, can you constantly talk about what we do, what our
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  values are, what this position actually is going to do, and
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  like how this person's going to impact the organization if they
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  join. But I also think like.
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  I think recruiters, there's there's a lot of things you hear
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  in the press like ghosting and just like not hear anything for
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  weeks and I think you lose that trust with.
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  They can't lost trust in you to rebuild that.
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  But I think you from the first time you speak with them, you
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  always need to keep that communication going and they're
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  going to feel confident in you. They're going to feel like
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  you're supporting them throughout the process and you
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  know, always giving tips like not telling them like too much,
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  but. Being able to say, like, you
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  know, maybe this is what you should do, maybe you maybe
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  rambled a little too much during our call, but just keep an eye
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  on that. Make sure you're not doing so
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  much of that in, you know, interviews, but kind of being
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  like an ally to them almost. And I really appreciate it.
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  Yeah, 100%. I guess from more of a direct
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  employer branding perspective. What do you think is a good
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  question actually? What do you think the the world
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  of employer brand, how do you think it's going to change over
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  the next, let's call it five years and when?
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  And and I'll give you a little bit more caveat.
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  That's question. What do you think employer
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  branding means to you now in a 2024 world, 2023 world and I
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  think 2024 is almost there, should have put it the other
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  way, but then over the next five years or so, right?
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  How do you feel it, it will evolve because I think it's in a
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  very interesting spot. Now we are organizations are
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  finally to a certain degree leaning a bit more into
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  authentic storytelling, communication and not so much on
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  the commercial type atmosphere that I think used to be in,
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  right? You know how products kind of
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  make it seem like this is the best product in the world?
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  I feel, I feel like companies are starting to do that a little
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  too much. So.
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  So what are your thoughts on both of those?
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  Yeah, I mean, I think, I think it's going to be the most
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  critical thing when we move into 2024 and and also as we keep
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  progressing through the years, I think.
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  Candidates now are going to just flock to organizations that have
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  a positive presence and can speak about what they're doing
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  and really the impact that they have and in terms of like what
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  they're doing for the customers they serve and reputation is, is
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  everything as well. It's so easy to find information
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  on organization and and you know, who knows?
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  We're kind of like in this AI era now could.
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  Someone just asked chat TBT like hey like tell me a little bit
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  about this company and and you know should I work for them and
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  who knows how smart it would be it's like give them a
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  recommendation. So I think we we have to really
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  companies really need to reload in and and be like how do we
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  want to position ourselves how do we want to really appeal and
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  and look to be a good company out there because the other
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  thing. What's happening is you know you
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  do hear press on like the whole like we're going back to hybrid.
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  We're going back to five days a week.
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  But remote companies still exists and and there's many
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  choices and and things that candidates have now is choice.
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  They can easily work for any company if there's no
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  geographical constraints before used to be, well, I'm going to
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  weigh out these two organizations because one is a.
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  A little bit less of a commute than the other, but now it's so
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  much more than that. And it's gonna involve to where
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  people are really gonna look at what is this kind of experience
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  like, what is your employee experience like and are we being
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  able to tell those stories on social media platforms, on other
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  platforms and talk about. Our values.
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  And I think that's one of the other things too, that is really
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  just going to impact someone wants to join you or not.
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  Is you our values aligned with their values and are we
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  providing enough and do we look like a supportive organization
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  that will help an employee flourish and and meet their
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  desires? Really.
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  Yeah. That's interesting.
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  What do you, let me ask you this then?
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  What do you think about? And I know the glaring like the
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  legal element of it, right? Like there are certain things
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  that you shouldn't say because they can have legal
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  ramifications. But what are your thoughts on
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  things that are in the Gray area and or things that you just
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  honestly should say to connect employer branding to retention.
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  So my direct question is, I've always had the thesis that more
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  organizations should create employer branding content
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  contextual to a department. I think I told you a little bit
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  about this. We are.
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  You have more of your macro content that you put out about
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  the organization and then whether that's in video form,
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  whether that's in written form, whether that's there's a lot of
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  different ways that you can do it creatively.
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  But then you should kind of have your, your content that speaks
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  to certain pockets of departments inside of your
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  organization as well as teams. So for an example, a marketing
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  team in my opinion should if they're hiring for certain
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  amount of roles in the marketing team, they should have content
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  that's put out just to describe what it's like to be a part of
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  that team. And frankly at a very like
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  authentic level, things that may be a little bit scary to admit
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  things that may be a little bit uncomfortable to admit.
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  What are your personal thoughts on that?
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  Obviously moving away from the the the reality that legal, you
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  know, you have to be, you know you have to be careful with
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  that. But like, like, I'll give you an
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  example that maybe is not so legally threatened.
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  Like, you know, explaining how decisions are made or explaining
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  how explaining how if you're an applicant joining this team and
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  if you want to present a new idea to me, here's the best way
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  to do that. Or like do you have any thoughts
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  on like little micro pieces of content that time managers can
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  put out to make applicants feel comfortable joining that
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  particular team? Yeah, That's a great question, I
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  don't think. I don't think it's unrealistic
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  like some of these things. So for me, my philosophy around
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  you know, job postings like the advertisement that the candid
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  see is, you know, let's talk about the team they're joining,
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  what is the mission of this team, how does it operate?
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  Who do they work with and what is their impact across the
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  organization. And and then you can get a
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  little more granular. I think it's kind of understand
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  you know what? What does get said in the job
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  posting verse the conversations they have with.
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  The hiring manager and the interview palace, because
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  sometimes it could be duplicative and sometimes just
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  having that conversation, whether it is with the recruiter
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  or whether it is with the hiring team, they might be able to
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  articulate it a little better verbally than it would be in,
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  let's say a job posting because you can only say so much.
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  There's a lot of real estate in that.
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  So I think it's just a good balance, but I do believe
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  organizations can be a lot more transparent and what putting out
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  there. And I've, I mean I've seen some
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  really cool creative job postings that you know newer
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  organizations are thinking outside the box are doing just
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  to kind of stay competitive. But some are still like sticking
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  to the old way of doing things. I really think you have to
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  constantly reiterate and and look how you can be more
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  attractive and and I think that's a glimmer of like your
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  company is, is your job posting and you really need to leverage
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  that to your fullest advantage. Does do you feel employer
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  branding and onboarding or like cousins to each other and and
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  what I mean by that is like do you believe what is shared
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  through employer branding content to have someone attract
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  to the company then kind of the same communications that are
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  that are that are communicated throughout the the the
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  recruiting. Do you think that then carries
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  on to the vibes, the feelings, the excitement, the nervousness
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  they may feel heading into onboarding?
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  Do you feel like they're all synced?
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  Absolutely it should be all synced because employer branding
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  the employer brand should be consistent not only externally
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  but internally. Like we should be speaking the
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  same language no matter who the audience is.
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  And you know, onboarding is like the first gateway into seeing
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  employee experience like. How do we prime our new hires
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  for success? And if the onboarding process is
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  terrible, remember that and they're probably if they're
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  going to refer people, they might even say that like, hey,
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  just an FYI, like this onboarding process wasn't so
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  great. So you really have to give that
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  good first impression to when they actually join your company.
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  So you need to have like flesh out.
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  Content needs to go smoothly and the processes need to be able to
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  be just very seamless. But I absolutely agree that
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  they're both tied together, but it's that consistent messaging
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  too that also needs to be on point.
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  Yeah, what are I'm rattling a bunch of questions at you.
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  Sorry about that. For those that you're listening
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  to, I'm barking on a new initiative where I'm trying to
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  try to collect thoughts, perspectives, learnings from a
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  lot of people and the employer branding sector right now for
• 15:17
  those that are listening. You know sometimes I go down the
• 15:20
  human capability rabbit hole, the BE and I rabbit hole the
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  internal comms rabbit hole. So right now I'm I'm in the
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  employer branding one and Cameron unfortunately or
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  fortunately has to answer all of these fire these these questions
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  are firing at them measurement of employer branding.
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  What does that look like now? What were you taught and then
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  where do you see it starting to develop Because I believe this
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  might be A and this is kind of connected to what we were just
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  talking about. I believe that first 90 day, the
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  first six month retention number should be.
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  It's a hard case to make should be somewhat connected to
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  employer branding, but it's tough to like fully lock it into
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  that and hold those employer branding executives and team
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  members accountable for the lack thereof or aura the strength of
• 16:12
  the retention. But what are some metrics around
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  how you measure the impact that that that you were taught prior
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  to getting into this work and then now that you've developed
• 16:21
  as you're getting now that you've been in this work for a
• 16:23
  bit of time now? Yeah, it's a great question I
• 16:26
  think and we go get a few things right.
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  You mentioned department specific or team specific
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  content unite us. We're a Ruby on rail shop.
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  So we would be ideally attracting engineers with that
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  background and I think one of the things that.
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  Would be a good measures are the people that are applying to
• 16:47
  these roles or following our company are these engineers that
• 16:51
  have our tech stack and are they ones that, you know maybe if
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  they don't have that are they willing to learn the tech stack
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  and you kind of get that through the conversations that you have
• 17:02
  with them to understand what they're willing to kind of get
• 17:04
  themselves into. But I think the other thing too
• 17:08
  is, you know. The top two places I think can't
• 17:13
  look for when they're seeking out companies or coming across
• 17:17
  companies is 1 your website and very specifically your careers
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  page and also LinkedIn. So with your careers page, how
• 17:25
  how is it performing? Where do people, how are people
• 17:28
  trying to navigate through that? Are they looking through jobs?
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  Like where are they clicking? Are they looking at blog posts
• 17:35
  that are associated with employee experience here?
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  Are they looking at any testimonials in them?
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  You know, with social media, what kind of posts are the
• 17:45
  audience like? The majority of the audience are
• 17:47
  actually engaging with. Are we seeing more engagement
• 17:51
  on, let's say a tech blog posts and maybe a sales blog post for
• 17:55
  whatever reason? So it really just is like think
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  about what we are trying to gauge.
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  I think everyone has their own metrics that they're targeting
• 18:04
  within an organization. But I think the other thing too
• 18:07
  is. Kind of like the can of quality
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  or the quality of hire because it's almost like following a
• 18:13
  trail. Did our inbound or outbound
• 18:15
  messaging target the right person and and do we have an
• 18:19
  interview loop that have the same consensus and results?
• 18:22
  Great, Higher. But maybe we didn't target the
• 18:25
  right person and maybe we didn't have the correct content that.
• 18:29
  Really was attracting the right person to the organization
• 18:32
  because you don't want it. Like the goal is not to attract
• 18:34
  everyone, it's it's to find the person that connects to your
• 18:37
  values. Yeah, mission mishires happen.
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  But you know, that's it's kind of like figuring out what is
• 18:46
  actually the most impactful pieces of content and and like
• 18:51
  how are we using that day-to-day to attract this talent?
• 18:54
  Yeah. And would you say I guess in in
• 18:58
  a, in a in a in a world where some folks are leaving after 90
• 19:01
  days. Do you all currently have
• 19:04
  systems or do you feel be important to have systems in
• 19:07
  place where as they're exiting they can kind of whether that's
• 19:11
  in a survey format, whether that's in a one-on-one where
• 19:14
  there's a few questions that's that's pointing back to employer
• 19:17
  branding. And I would probably suggest
• 19:21
  we're the question is based around and framed what you
• 19:25
  experienced during the 90 days. Is that indicative and
• 19:28
  reflecting of what you were, of what you were taught and what
• 19:32
  was communicating to you via via website, via the job
• 19:36
  description, via the the any sort of visual content that was
• 19:40
  put in front of you. Any videos, testimony was like
• 19:43
  was there a different experience and a different vibe and energy
• 19:46
  and realities that was felt during these 90 days that that
• 19:48
  obviously inspired you to leave that were different than what
• 19:51
  was put in front of you early on.
• 19:53
  What are your thoughts about that?
• 19:54
  Yeah, I think it's those are questions that should be asked
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  because it needs to be a feedback loop.
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  You know, what didn't quite click or what didn't kind of be
• 20:03
  In Sync when the person was going through the process.
• 20:06
  And now they're experiencing that actually in the weeds.
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  And we have measurements in place like we have verbal, you
• 20:13
  know, exit interviews, we have form surveys that people can
• 20:16
  fill out and we're always analyzing feedback.
• 20:19
  No company is perfect. So we're always looking to see
• 20:23
  where can we find ways to maybe remedy this or on this.
• 20:29
  But I think it definitely needs to be something where we get the
• 20:32
  information so we know how to evolve from that.
• 20:35
  Yeah, no 100% distribution. What are your favorite platforms
• 20:42
  that you feel some of this content should be put out on?
• 20:48
  And I'll and I'll ask you a pretty strategic question.
• 20:50
  So I've always been a fan of like let me see of a really
• 20:55
  interesting example Like I used to think about this whole this
• 20:59
  is years ago too, trying to find to hear my EDD like I'm trying
• 21:02
  to like do the pattern recognition in my mind.
• 21:05
  I think I found it all right. So if you are, if you're a
• 21:11
  sports brand, right? Let's say.
• 21:14
  And you decide to put out some employer branding content to
• 21:19
  attract and recruit applicants. Do you feel that it's important
• 21:23
  from a distribution of that content to maybe be on a?
• 21:29
  I don't know on a bar stool, podcast or a if you're a big
• 21:34
  company, you have enough budget, you know, try to get some
• 21:36
  promotion via ESPN and some of their online distribution
• 21:41
  channels. They have or like do you feel
• 21:43
  like what your brand is? Should you get outside the box
• 21:47
  and try to market? On channels and distribution
• 21:50
  platforms that are also geared towards whether it's your
• 21:54
  consumers and end users or just the overall same industry or
• 21:59
  should it just be your normal channels like Twitter or
• 22:01
  Facebook, Instagram, you know, TikTok if you will, LinkedIn,
• 22:07
  things about nature. What are your thoughts on that?
• 22:10
  Yeah, great question. I have an example to give
• 22:12
  actually that we've actually pursued recently, but I think
• 22:15
  you need to do both. There's definitely some major
• 22:18
  social media channels that would not make sense.
• 22:20
  But I will say like I have never seen LinkedIn like in the way it
• 22:27
  is now compared to how it was years ago.
• 22:30
  Like, I think there's so many people using LinkedIn to its
• 22:34
  fullest advantage. I there's so many new companies
• 22:36
  out there, some new, I would say LinkedIn influencers, if you
• 22:41
  will, that are just pointing out content that we've never seen
• 22:44
  before. It's not boring content anymore.
• 22:47
  It's not this business jargony stuff.
• 22:49
  It's gained the most engagement but talking about real things
• 22:53
  and I think you're all you're seeing that across the board,
• 22:55
  whether it's sales influencers, tech influencers and it's just
• 23:00
  amazing to see like how creative they are.
• 23:02
  But I think you need to figure out where your audience is and
• 23:06
  and who you're trying to target. We, we recently worked with a
• 23:10
  organization called Purpose Jobs.
• 23:12
  And Purpose Jobs is kind of like a small hub.
• 23:16
  I think they started in the Midwest and they're trying to
• 23:18
  expand nationwide. But they only bring on and what
• 23:23
  we call purpose certify organizations that have a straw
• 23:26
  mission that are doing good in the world.
• 23:28
  And it's very selective and it's not pay to play.
• 23:32
  Sometimes the pay to plays are a little bit but this is how
• 23:36
  authentic are you as a brand and any people are looking for
• 23:40
  mission driven companies that are doing good impactful work.
• 23:44
  They would hopefully go to purpose jobs and find this
• 23:46
  company, see what we're doing, see the jobs we're hiring for
• 23:49
  and maybe apply through there and.
• 23:52
  You're making me think of something.
• 23:54
  Purpose jobs. Purpose jobs.
• 23:57
  The CEO of that. Purpose jobs.
• 24:00
  So I'm sorry. Sorry.
• 24:01
  Listen, listen. Oh, purpose jobs.
• 24:04
  Do you, do you know any folks there?
• 24:08
  We know a couple of people, I think.
• 24:09
  I think we're working with someone by name of Ryan.
• 24:12
  Ryan Land, Landon or Lando, potentially.
• 24:16
  I have to look up the last one, LAN.
• 24:18
  DAU maybe. Maybe maybe.
• 24:22
  Anyway, I'll share it after after this.
• 24:25
  He was on my podcast, actually, Yeah.
• 24:28
  I've done, yeah. I've done contact with him a few
• 24:30
  times. I did an event with them in
• 24:32
  person one time. Yeah, I'm very familiar with
• 24:36
  them actually. When you said the guy was like
• 24:38
  purpose, why does that sound like familiar?
• 24:40
  Yeah. So yeah, keep going.
• 24:41
  If you had any of the thoughts, I didn't mean to cut you off,
• 24:43
  but no purpose jobs. That's interesting.
• 24:46
  It does connect. It's a real story.
• 24:48
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 24:48
  Small world, right? Yeah, yeah.
• 24:51
  I think I would say there's a lot of these newer, I don't know
• 24:55
  what you wanna call them like hubs, but they're kind of like
• 24:58
  going outside like the traditional social media
• 25:00
  platforms. I think you're kind of starting
• 25:04
  to see like these hubs, think tanks, whatever.
• 25:07
  But like there's also like a lot of like sales communities,
• 25:11
  right, Like enterprise SAS, like sales communities out there
• 25:14
  where they're kind of like doing the same thing.
• 25:16
  Like people are posting their jobs on there.
• 25:19
  There maybe maybe like a making a company landing page that are
• 25:22
  like showcasing some content that the company's put out, but
• 25:27
  it's just really trying to find like where are these audiences
• 25:30
  gravitating towards and leveraging them.
• 25:32
  Cuz sometimes you might not get all you need through LinkedIn.
• 25:36
  As recruiters we always need to rely on it because like that's
• 25:40
  like the main tool. But that doesn't mean there
• 25:42
  isn't other avenues you can take to find who you're looking for
• 25:45
  and attract those individuals. And I think, and this is also
• 25:49
  what you're probably alluding to, is like the job or circuit,
• 25:52
  right? That's really what.
• 25:53
  You know, finding the right job boards that can really fit your
• 25:56
  brand. Your messaging has the, you
• 25:58
  know, so there's a ton of job boards that are connected to the
• 26:02
  LBGTQ community. There's a ton of job boards that
• 26:04
  that are connected to your diverse candidates.
• 26:08
  You know, there's a ton of job boards that are connected to
• 26:10
  just your your product folks, your marketing folks.
• 26:12
  So to your point, there's a ton of different.
• 26:15
  Job boards in areas, communities online where you can go as an
• 26:19
  employer, brand executive, as a recruiter and be a part of those
• 26:23
  communities and extract potential applicants and
• 26:25
  candidates and kind of get your messaging out there for sure.
• 26:28
  Yeah, it's kind of like because back in the day like for agency
• 26:32
  recruiting, we used to look at this site called Meet Up and
• 26:35
  they were these like little tech developer groups when we were
• 26:39
  looking for software engineers, like there was a job and meet up
• 26:41
  in like the Philadelphia area. But you can kind of think of
• 26:44
  these now as like very established like groups that are
• 26:49
  kind of evolved from like the typical way it used to be.
• 26:53
  Yeah, no, 1000%. And and you said back in the
• 26:56
  day, is that you and I are super old like which is like 8 years
• 27:00
  ago, it feels like it, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 27:05
  My next question. So I believe from a, so I'm
• 27:09
  looking at some things here. We have a ton of questions here
• 27:11
  I can ask you, but we'll have so much time.
• 27:15
  How do you feel employees should get involved internally as it
• 27:18
  pertains to employer branding? From a different angle that you
• 27:22
  probably would expect from the angle of sitting down and having
• 27:27
  focus groups internally share the positives as well as maybe
• 27:31
  even like the Gray areas of their experiences thus far that
• 27:35
  they feel should be communicated through recruiting and through
• 27:39
  employer branding so that when that applicant.
• 27:43
  Turns into an actual employee and joins that team.
• 27:46
  They're more familiar with the realities of that team and that
• 27:48
  organization as well as your employees are happy because now
• 27:52
  your employees are like you hired someone that already knew
• 27:55
  they were getting into so they can kind of hit the ground
• 27:57
  running a little bit faster. I was, I was doing some advising
• 28:01
  and coaching a few years back for that company beyond brand I
• 28:05
  was telling you about. And that was one of the pieces
• 28:07
  of that consulting that I would do is like look, we need to
• 28:10
  learn and talk to some of your employees.
• 28:13
  And get their points of views on some of the information and
• 28:16
  content that they feel should be put out, if not for anything
• 28:20
  just to make them happy so that when that person joins the team
• 28:24
  they can kind of hit the ground running and they feel like that
• 28:26
  that that the employees have been heard a bit.
• 28:28
  So what are your, what are your thoughts on talking to some of
• 28:31
  those employees that help you with your employer branding
• 28:33
  strategy? Yeah.
• 28:34
  We actually did something like this I think, I think a couple
• 28:39
  years ago where we were looking at candidates that were brought
• 28:43
  on board and they were not advocates, but they were sourced
• 28:47
  like what what attracted them? They were they were passive
• 28:51
  candidates. What attracted them to our
• 28:53
  organization, what made them want to have a conversation.
• 28:57
  And I think it Lava was attributed to like our brands,
• 29:00
  like a lot of it was about our messaging and and what we were
• 29:04
  doing and how we talked about what we were doing.
• 29:07
  But I think it can be very granular from there.
• 29:09
  Like that was just like 1 portion of them interacting with
• 29:12
  us. I think you know we always want
• 29:15
  to think about ways of you know like the onboarding experience,
• 29:18
  right. We are always serving and seeing
• 29:21
  like you know what did you like about this, what didn't you like
• 29:23
  about this and and how what are your recommendations for
• 29:26
  improving and sometimes those are like group think tanks that
• 29:30
  are happen over zoom or they could just be survey based.
• 29:33
  But I think like other ways to bring people in is having them
• 29:39
  be part of like the testimonial, having them be part of any sort
• 29:44
  of video that you want to put out or maybe a quote that you
• 29:47
  want to put out that's directly from them.
• 29:49
  I think also too kind of like checking ourselves having like a
• 29:53
  checks and balances in place where you know, we think this
• 29:57
  sounds on brand, but do you think it's on brand and just
• 30:01
  having like a, I wanna say like a third party.
• 30:03
  But another perspective on how does it sound and what would you
• 30:07
  do to tailor this if we were working with them or with this
• 30:10
  department, having those folks chip in and then say, does it
• 30:14
  sound on point? Does it sound like what you're
• 30:16
  trying to accomplish and what you would want talent to see?
• 30:19
  Yeah. No, that's percent.
• 30:23
  Maybe a final question that we can end with and then I'll get
• 30:26
  you out of here is the following.
• 30:30
  You've been in your career for a bit of time, but you're still
• 30:33
  young, you're still thriving. You look 19, but that's a
• 30:38
  compliment. It's not a bad young man.
• 30:42
  What would you advise? And I think this is important
• 30:46
  because I so I've done a lot of speaking at like Sherm chapters
• 30:49
  at the university level where a lot of young HR folks are coming
• 30:54
  into the industry. And what I've tried to do, and I
• 30:57
  think I want to start it back up because I've spoke at probably
• 30:59
  about 15 or so different universities at the term
• 31:01
  chapters. And my main purpose of doing
• 31:06
  that was to try to teach and show them that hey, being an HR
• 31:10
  generalist and getting in the administration and and and and
• 31:13
  benefits part of the job. Which to my admin HR folks out
• 31:17
  there, not to you, we need you. But I will go to sleep and pass
• 31:21
  out if I ever have to do that because.
• 31:23
  It is very boring to me, but I love you all.
• 31:25
  We need you. And I was explaining to that you
• 31:27
  don't have to just do that, right?
• 31:29
  That's not you can jump right into employer branding, you can
• 31:33
  jump into strategic recruiting, you can jump into internal cons,
• 31:36
  you can jump into DNI. You can jump into change
• 31:40
  management and get into consulting and go down that path
• 31:43
  if you like. So what advice would you give to
• 31:46
  anyone looking to maybe? I don't want to say skip the
• 31:50
  line a bit, but take a different approach early in their career
• 31:54
  and jump into employer branding versus taking the more
• 31:57
  potentially traditional path of going into this as a generalist
• 32:01
  or maybe getting into fast-paced recruiting and then eventually
• 32:04
  finding out burnt out they need to make a little bit of a
• 32:07
  transition. What what are your what are your
• 32:09
  thoughts on that? Yeah I think one of the biggest
• 32:12
  things in that it's really impacted how things happened in
• 32:15
  my career was networking it. It's having those conversations
• 32:18
  and and don't be afraid to reach out to people on some of these
• 32:22
  channels that Linkedin's definitely the main hub.
• 32:24
  But more often than not people are going to respond.
• 32:27
  I I feel like there's a whole notion of no one's going to
• 32:30
  exactly, exactly. People are willing to talk about
• 32:33
  what they do and and are more than willing to help people
• 32:37
  excel their career find or help someone pivot into a different
• 32:43
  area that they are interested in.
• 32:46
  But I think also too there's just so much constant out there
• 32:48
  like research a ton and and and see if this resonates with you.
• 32:53
  Like employer branding could be something that someone heard
• 32:56
  about one day maybe that hasn't done the research yet but but do
• 32:59
  the research it's it's definitely a different
• 33:02
  specialty. It's very exciting now and I
• 33:04
  think it's going to be the thing that is always going to stick
• 33:07
  with organizations moving forward.
• 33:09
  But I think with anything it's do your research, reach out to
• 33:14
  the experts, try to have those conversations and try to mark
• 33:18
  yourself. I I think like personal brand is
• 33:20
  a big thing too. Like what is your personal brand
• 33:23
  and how can you really impact an organization that might be
• 33:27
  looking for someone that's ambitious, that's has a good
• 33:31
  understanding, a good foundation of whatever they're trying to
• 33:34
  get into. And I think that's could be just
• 33:37
  as good as someone that might have all this experience.
• 33:40
  It just really depends on like great she was looking for.
• 33:44
  Bonus question. I know you said you like to chef
• 33:47
  it up a bit. Your favorite dish, your
• 33:53
  favorite. I was going to try to come up
• 33:55
  with some crazy scenario that's it's too complicated.
• 33:58
  Just your favorite dish to cook. Like actually, no.
• 34:01
  Your favorite dish to cook. Whether it's a birthday for
• 34:04
  someone you care about. Special occasion Like what's?
• 34:08
  Like a favorite special dish, not just your.
• 34:11
  Hey, it's a Wednesday night. I need to eat so I can have
• 34:15
  energy. What's your favorite dish?
• 34:17
  That's a great question. I mean, I'm half Italian, so
• 34:20
  pasta dishes are something that I usually try to be creative
• 34:23
  with. But a good penny alla vodka, It
• 34:25
  could be chicken. Penny Alla Vodka is something
• 34:27
  that I would make, but I'm also trying to get into kind of like
• 34:33
  the Indian Pakistani cuisine too, like attempted chicken,
• 34:37
  biryani many times. It's not perfect, but we're
• 34:40
  there. I'm trying.
• 34:41
  Yeah, very cool man. Very cool.
• 34:44
  Well, I appreciate to having you.
• 34:45
  It's been a great conversation. I threw a lot at you.
• 34:48
  You handled it very well. So I'm very appreciative of
• 34:50
  that. And as always, man, like I said,
• 34:53
  we'll, we'll keep in touch. I know we have a couple meetings
• 34:56
  lined up for me to be able to get to know your company a
• 34:59
  little bit more, which I'm very appreciative of and but.
• 35:02
  Here I look at you as a friend. Now we'll share thoughts,
• 35:05
  resources, perspectives. You're not too far from me, so
• 35:08
  hopefully maybe one day we'll be able to grab a beer or something
• 35:10
  and connect in person. But thanks for being on the
• 35:13
  podcast, man. Yeah, absolutely.
• 35:14
  Anthony, thanks for having me.