Latest / The Marketing Brief / Errol & Brian Open Up on the Current Job Market and How to Navigate Unemployment
Transcript
- Brian Aucoin: Hello and welcome back to the Marketing Brief. I am your host, Brian Aucoin, and this is the podcast where we briefly touch on topics across the marketing landscape. always, we're joined by industry expert and we're very excited to be joined by Errol Firestone today. Errol, welcome in. Errol Firestone: Brian, thank you for having me. Happy to be here. Brian Aucoin: That's great. We're happy. We're happy to have you. Would you like to introduce yourself? Kind of talk about what you're what you're working on. You got a new gig going. Errol Firestone: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I'm a 15 plus year industry of the media machine. I have worked across multiple big agencies, a couple of more mid-sized agencies, and had a lot of different experiences throughout the course of the evolution of our industry over the last 15 plus years. Brian Aucoin: Yeah. Errol Firestone: I recently joined WPP Media, in the pharma space and excited about the new role. But I go through ⁓ a pretty and unexpected ⁓ job search So, you know, got good feel for the market and the sentiment and, know, what our kind feels like right now, almost from the outside, so to speak. Brian Aucoin: Absolutely. Well, congratulations on the new role. We're excited for you. Yeah, I would love to talk about your journey because I've been out there as a consultant. I'm always looking for business. So in a sense, I'm always out there trying to not try to feast, not famine. ⁓ You, how long were you unemployed? Errol Firestone: Thank you. You It was nine months, almost to the day. Brian Aucoin: Okay. And I kind of, I've got a similar background where I work at agencies and I've spent time unemployed and this time kind of feels different. What do you think is, or what to you feels different right now about the market and trying to find a job? Errol Firestone: Yeah. And my past experiences being out searching for a job, in some cases with the job and searching and in other cases, you know, being out there nothing. It feels like there a force field of kind surrounding the industry that much less penetrable than it used to be. Brian Aucoin: Mm-hmm. Errol Firestone: You know, there's a just sheer volume and the layoffs hitting hitting the news the real people that you and I all know really good people that are finding themselves quickly and unexpectedly out of work. And there's just a, a glut of talent and economy is in a place where it is unsure. so companies ready to take bigger risks and expansion. There's a lot shifting of accounts from one agency and whole code to the other as there always is, but it just doesn't feel like anyone's willing to invest in people right now in the way that they once were. Brian Aucoin: Yes, completely agree with you. From my standpoint, yeah, economically driven, right? ⁓ Companies hit with tariffs. Middle of last year, I guess, starting in April, almost a year ago now, right? Those tariffs were introduced. ⁓ Companies were okay, we don't know how to do business now because costs have gotten higher. We're uncertain in how to invest in ourselves. And... No matter how we prove it out of marketing and advertising as a place that the businesses usually cut first. So they're usually hit kind of first and they're like, can scale back on that marketing. Even though we know year over year, if you do invest at a time when everybody's cutting back, you are going to increase your brand share. You're going to increase your awareness. Um, and it's proven to be a way to build your brand, but I agree with you. we've got economic factors. I think the other thing we're, we're seeing is people are staying in the workforce longer. Errol Firestone: Yeah. Brian Aucoin: Right? So, so people aren't aging out and leaving their jobs that they have a nice savings. They're ready for retirement. Like they're staying in their positions, which is squeezing overall ⁓ workforce as well. Yeah. And then I think thirdly, we've got AI, you know, kind of just putting itself in the conversation, right? ⁓ I companies are trying to navigate. Can I do more with less? Right? Can I. Errol Firestone: No question. Brian Aucoin: Can I not invest in someone a bigger number and someone who's a smaller number and then with technology get them up to that level? I don't think that works, but I do see companies that are trying it, right? And thinking, ⁓ maybe this is a place that we can save on ⁓ ⁓ in the technology at the same time, keep our payroll down. ⁓ that something that you're seeing in the market as well? Errol Firestone: Yeah, it's a varying degrees depending on the people in charge and their commitment to a technology or a change in their process and a rethinking of their business. And I think that's the key thing that has challenged companies up to this point is they've tried to kind of slot AI in to their existing infrastructure. And it does have applications, right? Low value, repeatable work that can be automated and just free up some time on a week to week, day to day basis. I don't think organizations are doing is taking a, you know, a zero sum approach or, or just, you know, how would we construct our operations, our company if we had AI at the core and native? And, and I, while it's not realistic for any company of a certain size to kind of. know, hit the reset button and rebuild. I do think it's a valuable exercise to understand where AI can fit best in your organization. And that helps you kind of get to, well, what's practical and what can we execute now and test and what can we execute later? ⁓ really challenging because I don't, you know, ⁓ my experience, I haven't seen it kind of figured out yet. And it's going to take a lot more time and a lot more, ⁓ know, test and learn iteration until it really takes hold in the way that I think the bottom lines of some companies ⁓ it will. ⁓ Brian Aucoin: Yeah. Yeah. And it's going to take buying in too, right? And I think something we talked about on this podcast is that AI has a brand problem, right? Like there aren't, people aren't like giving themselves up over to it. Like, Hey, let me figure this out. I spent a lot of time with it. We talked on this podcast where it's somewhere in between a tool, like the calculator of our times right now to full backbone of an organization, right? It's infrastructure that you can build around. Certainly you can build a marketing system around it. So yeah, I agree. A lot more to be figured out. Well, we talked about, ⁓ go ahead. Yeah. Good. Errol Firestone: I would add one thing. I am an AI optimist. I think there's a ton of potential and I am deeply invested in ⁓ up ⁓ the changes evolution across all the different LLMs and new companies that are spawning every day ⁓ that super specialized. And so I'm optimistic about the impact on the world. And I do think that There is a world where AI helps us to expand the business and what we can achieve, right? And not contract it to replace, but really be additive. I'm ⁓ that that will happen sooner than later because ⁓ now it feels like ⁓ impacting a lot of ⁓ human people in significant ways. Brian Aucoin: and Yeah. And that's why I do like the calculator analogy because it does take a good operator, right? A calculator on its own is not doing anything, but if you have the right inputs, if you have the right programming, if you're prompting in the right fashion, certainly a lot of positive things can come out of it and efficiency can be seen. ⁓ kind of talked about a little bit about like what's going on in ⁓ job market right now. I'd love to get from you kind of like, Errol Firestone: Totally. Brian Aucoin: do you get through that? Right? I have my own thoughts on this because it's a roller coaster. It's an emotional roller coaster when you're dealing with, my God, I don't know where my checks coming from to I have to stay confident as I'm going into these conversations and having conversations. Is there something that kind of helped you kind of as you went along? Figure out or to keep you sane. Errol Firestone: You know, when I look back on that, on the period of time, and I think about it in kind of phases, right? That first, that first really weak ⁓ know, you're, you're, it's a gut punch, you know, ⁓ it's unexpected. Most people's reaction is, I just need to decompress. need a few days, right? It's a process. Brian Aucoin: Mm-hmm. You're numb. Yeah. Errol Firestone: the change in life that's just so sudden and complete. And so many of us identify with who we are and work as a big part of that. you know, I think that was, that was important to be able to kind of step away ⁓ then, ⁓ know, reality sets in. ⁓ It's like the reality bites phase and you got to face it. I think you come out of that. I came out of that at least with this ⁓ and energy, right? I'm all go get them and let's hit the, let's pound the pavement. And some that phase doesn't last very long and they're fortunate enough to kind of find themselves in another role quickly. I think right now you're finding a lot more people are taking a lot more time than they anticipate. to land that next role. it's a, you don't know where the ⁓ is, when it feels like the horizon of your life and the industry is very hazy, then it's a on a day-to-day basis. The other thing that... Brian Aucoin: Yeah. Errol Firestone: really impacted me was, so I have a wife, I have a son, my wife works, my son is in school, there's a disruption ⁓ the routine that you feel, right? But everyone else's life goes on. ⁓ it... Brian Aucoin: Mm-hmm. Errol Firestone: It just kind of underscores, know, when everyone leaves for the day and you're sitting there facing your computer screen, you know, it's, it's, where we go from here? And so it takes, I think a lot of mental toughness, really, ⁓ just to be able to keep focused use your time wisely. Brian Aucoin: Mm-hmm. Yeah, agree. ⁓ think that first step, like you said, you ⁓ get the gut punch, you get through that. I immediately went to that. I'm going to send, I'm going to apply to a thousand jobs, right? Like just go swing the whole other way. ⁓ And we talked a little bit about when we, before we started recording, like you're not getting feedback. Errol Firestone: I may have applied to a thousand jobs, yeah. You can get it. Brian Aucoin: Right? Like I think it used to be like, well, at least I'd get some meetings. I'd start some interviews. I'd start to some feedback from people, but it seems like now it's really hard to get to person feedback. You're usually getting a reg, like a form rejection letter of you just, you know, we had other candidates that were, yeah, even sometimes nothing if you get absolutely nothing. Errol Firestone: If you're there's a lot of professional ghosting happening, no question. that kind of field image feels really real. And when there are so many people fighting for so few open roles. Brian Aucoin: Mm. Errol Firestone: the just the volume of applications you see when you go to like a LinkedIn ⁓ job was posted two hours ago and there's over a hundred applicants. You're like, did already miss it? I don't know. ⁓ I off so many resumes, ⁓ you ⁓ digitally, through LinkedIn, sometimes through, you know, their applicant tracking system, Greenhouse and, you know, all the systems that they ⁓ that they use manage those candidates. And a lot of times you just you just aren't going to hear back. you know, I would say 15 % of the jobs I applied for, I received some kind of rejection ⁓ It's Brian Aucoin: Yeah, it's really low. I think the hard thing when that happens too, is that you start to look inward and you're like, ⁓ what do I need to change about myself? And you start kind of changing yourself for every role that you are applying to. And I've had these conversations with people like, ⁓ certainly be reflective, know, live a self reflective life and understand your awareness in the situation. I think one of things you have to do is just persevere. And you did mention persevere, but it's like, Errol Firestone: Yes. Brian Aucoin: You can't react to non reactions all the time. So it's a kind of kind of keep hitting the pavement, keep doing what you're doing. And I think the other thing we've seen is that timing is so important here, right? There are hiring cycles. Have you seen that in your recent journey as well? Errol Firestone: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We talked about the economy a little bit and just a macro kind of lower level we're living at right now. But know, it's, hiring has always been seasonal. And so when I was let go, was July. And, you know, I looked ahead of me and I said, well, it's July. I mean, people are basically out of the office for another six weeks, so I might as well get comfy and get prepared. fall hit and you expect things to pick up and they did. That lasts up until about Thanksgiving. And then, ⁓ I'm you're aware as... Brian Aucoin: Mm-hmm. Errol Firestone: many people in your audience are, there was a massive merger that finally went through after a long time with significant volume of layoffs. so the market, you know, that's another piece that that is unique to right now, which is every so often there's a kind of a restocking of the of the the unemployed. ⁓ Brian Aucoin: Hmm. Yeah. Inventory. Yeah. Errol Firestone: group. so, yeah, and you see that you're going through a day to day and you're not getting the positive feedback trying to adjust and change things like you mentioned. It's like, well, that's a whole other group of people that on the one side, I deeply feel for because they're in the same situation I am and they're going through that tough moment right now. And on the other hand, I'm like, that's a lot more candidates out in the market that everyone's going to be competing for the same roles. Brian Aucoin: Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you. Well, you know, looking at the seasonality of things, understanding the market, you know, approaching this as a marketer, I think was the right way that you did it. I kind of do that in everything I do, because that's what I do. So I've written some content and people can check it out on LinkedIn about the hidden job market and how to kind of persevere through this how you should kind of approach it. But I really appreciate you sharing your your time with us. I always like to ask my guests what's something they're excited about coming up. I know you just started a new job, so this could be in your professional capacity or your personal capacity, but is there something that you're excited about right now? Errol Firestone: Professionally, I would say I'm excited about AI. Despite its collateral and unintended consequences, I'm excited about it. And personally, summer. I'm excited for summer. It's been a long winter in New York. ⁓ Brian Aucoin: Yeah, lot of in New York. great. got any summer plans for the family? Errol Firestone: know, atypically, we usually do, but, but not big ones. because I in such an unknown ⁓ space we didn't make our usual summer plans, but it is our anniversary in, ⁓ at the end of June. So we'll do something for that. And, ⁓ you know, we'll, make the best of it. Just I'll, I'll take nice weather, good health. That's all we need. Brian Aucoin: Yeah. Absolutely. Great. Well, Errol, I feel like people have, or I'm hoping that people have really resonated with your story and with us talking about how to navigate this job market. So thank you for being open and for sharing with it, sharing your story. ⁓ Errol Firestone: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I will add one thing, because on a positive note, know, it does give you the opportunity to, when you've been in the industry for a while, like I have, even if you haven't, to connect or reconnect with folks that you haven't in a long time. And there were a lot of people, they knew who they are, just... brought a lot of kindness my way. And that didn't mean, that doesn't mean that they referred me at their company for a job. And it doesn't mean, you know, that they even looked at my resume and gave me feedback. You know, they may have just taken the time to have a conversation and hear me out. You know, a couple of folks who offered to take me to lunch and those little kindnesses are meaningful and they do help to keep you going. So, so the folks out there who are going through it now, you're recently or have been in a stretch, it dated. day keep pushing along you're gonna have days where it where it feels hard and experience those days feel those days and then come back stronger. Brian Aucoin: Yeah. I agree with you. Those, those just coffee meetings are so big. mean, just having something on your calendar makes, gives you some worth, right? So yeah, people, people who can certainly keep reaching out, ⁓ offer those coffee meetings, offer those lunches because they are really, they go a long way. They certainly go a long way. been great having you for a conversation, Errol. ⁓ can people reach out to you on LinkedIn if they're, ⁓ Yeah. Errol Firestone: Thank you for having me. Yeah, absolutely. Brian Aucoin: We'll put that in when we post the content. ⁓ Thank you. Thank you for joining me. Everybody. This has been a brief conversation on the Marketing Brief podcast. I'm your host, Brian Aucoin. And stay curious. Errol Firestone: You're welcome.