Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Mega Edition: Tova Noel And Her Transcript From her Congressional Testimony (Part 1-3) (8/25/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: Tova Noel And Her Transcript From her Congressional Testimony (Part 1-3) (8/25/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. Now that we finished up with the Sarah
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Kellan transcript from her visit to Congress, we're going to
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: begin diving in to Tova Noels, who of course was
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: one of the guards that was tasked with watching Jeffrey
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Epstein on the night that he died. And the person
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: asking the questions this time around is Ms. Feyerabend. This
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: is a transcribed interview of Tova Noel conducted by the
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: House Committee on Oversight and government reform granted to it
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: pursuant to House Rule X. Accordingly, House Rule X grants
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: the committee broad jurisdiction for the committee to conduct investigations
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: of any matter at any time. This interview was requested
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: by Chairman James Comer as part of the committee's investigation
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: into the circumstances and subsequent investigations into the crimes of
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, the operation of sex trafficking rings,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: and ways for the federal government to effectively combat them.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: The ways in which Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell sought
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: to curry favor and exercise influence to protect their illegal
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: activities and potential violations of ethics rules related to elected officials.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Can the witness please state her name and spell her
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: last name for the record? Ms. Noel. Tova Noel. N-O-E-L. Ms. Farabend.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: I want to thank Ms. Noel for appearing here voluntarily today.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: My name is Emily Feyerbend, and I'm counsel for Chairman
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: James Comer. Under the Committee on Oversight and Government Reforms Rules,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: you're allowed to have counsel present to advise you during
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: this interview. Do you have counsel representing you in a
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: personal capacity present with you today? Ms. Noel, yes. Question.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Will counsel please identify themselves for the record? Mr. Foy,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Jason Foye. Mr. Brioche, Rudy Brioche. Ms. Fierabend, thank you.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: And for the record, starting with the majority staff, can
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: the additional staff members please introduce themselves with their name, title,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: and affiliation? Billy Grant, Deputy Chief Counsel for Investigations, Chairman Comer.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Jack Emmer, Chief Counsel for Investigations for Chairman Comer. Mr. Ashworth,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: General Counsel for Chairman Comer. Ryan Giacchetti. Chief Counsel for
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Chairman Comer. Will Harnese, Professional Staff Member for Chairman Comer.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Hannah Cathay, Professional Staff Member, Chairman Comer. Ellison Tolan, Counsel,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Chairman Comer. Brittany Brignac, Senior Counsel for Chairman Comer. Ashley Vineyard,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Deputy Staff Director for Chairman Comer. Mr. Spector, Peter Spector,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Director of Oversight for Chairman Comer. Mallory Koger, Director of
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Operations and Chief Clerk. for Chairman Comer. The next group
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: of names, all redacted. So we're just going to skip them. Ms. Fierabend,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: thank you all. And I also see that we have
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: a member that just joined us. Would he please identify himself? Mr. Walkinshaw,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: good morning. I am James Walkinshaw from Virginia's 11th District. Question,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: thank you. Ms. Noel, before we begin, I'd like to
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: go over the ground rules for this transcribed interview. The
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: questioning will proceed in rounds. The majority will ask questions
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: for up to an hour, and then the minority will
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: have the opportunity to ask questions for up to an
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: hour if they choose. To the extent the members have
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: questions for the witness, they will be propounded during the
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: side's respective rounds. The clock will stop if you need
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: to confer with counsel, your counsel is speaking, and when
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: members of staff are speaking during the opposing side's round
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: of questions. We'll alternate back and forth until there are
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: no more questions. Do you understand? Ms. Noel, yes, ma'am. Question.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: There is a court reporter taking down everything I say
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: and everything you say to make a written record of
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: the interview. For the record to be clear, please wait
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: until the staffer questioning you finishes each question before you
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: begin your answer, and the staffer will wait until you
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: finish your response before proceeding to the next question. Further,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: to ensure the court reporter can properly record this interview,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Please speak clearly, concisely, and slowly. Also, the court reporter
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: cannot record nonverbal answers, such as nodding or shaking your head.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: So it's important that you answer each question with an
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: audible verbal answer. Exhibits may be entered into the record.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Majority exhibits will be identified numerically. Minority exhibits will be
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: identified alphabetically. Do you understand? Ms. Noel, yes ma'am. Question 2.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: We want you to answer our questions in the most
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: complete and truthful manner possible, so we'll take our time.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: If you have any questions or do not fully understand
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: the question, please let us know. We will attempt to clarify,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: add context to, or rephrase our questions. If we ask
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: about specific conversations or events in the past, and you're
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: unable to recall the exact words or details, you should
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: testify to the substance of those conversations or events to
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: the best of your recollection. If you recall only a
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: part of a conversation or event, you should give us
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: your best recollection of those events or parts of conversations
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: that you recall. Do you understand? Ms. Nova, yes ma'am. Question.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Although you're here voluntarily and you will not be sworn in,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: you are required by law pursuant to Title 18 of
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: the U.S. Code Section 1001 to answer questions from Congress truthfully.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: This also applies to questions posed by congressional staff. In
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: the interview, do you understand? Ms. Noel, yes ma'am. Question.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: This includes both knowingly providing false testimony, but also stating
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: that you do not recall or remember something when in
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: fact you do. Do you understand? Furthermore, you cannot tell
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: half-truths or exclude information necessary to make your statements accurate.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: You're required to provide all information that would make your
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: response truthful. A deliberate failure to disclose information can constitute
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: a false statement. Do you understand? Ms. Noel, yes ma'am. Question,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: is there any reason that you're unable to provide truthful
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: testimony in today's interview? Noel, no ma'am. Question, please note
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: that if you wish to assert privilege over any statement today,
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: that assertion must comply with the rules of the Committee
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: on Oversight and Government Reform. Pursuant to that, Committee Rule
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: 16c1 states, for the chair to consider assertions of privilege
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: over testimony or statements, witnesses or entities must clearly state
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: the specific privilege being asserted and the reason for the
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: assertion on or before the scheduled date of testimony or appearance.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Do you understand? Ms. Noel, yes, ma'am. Question. Ordinarily, we
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: take a five-minute break at the end of each hour
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: of questioning and But if you need a longer break,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: or a break before that, please let us know, and
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: we'll be happy to accommodate. However, to the extent that
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: there is a pending question, we would ask you finish
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: answering the question before we take the break. Do you understand? Ms. Noel,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: yes ma'am. Question, do you have any other questions before
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: we begin? Noel, no ma'am. Question, I understand you have
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: an opening statement. Would you like to read that now? Noel, yes.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Good morning, my name is Tova Noel. and I'm 37
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: years old. I appear here today voluntarily in response to
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: the request of the House Oversight Committee to answer questions
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: about the circumstances and subsequent investigation of the death of Mr.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein in 2019. Before I begin my opening statement,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: I would like to take a moment to say that
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: my thoughts and prayers are with the victims of Jeffrey Epstein,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: and that my decision to voluntarily appear before this committee,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: in part, is influenced by my desire to to provide
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: clarity for the women harmed by Mr. Epstein and his co-conspirators.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: I emigrated from Antigua to the United States when I
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: was 12 years old. At 16, I graduated high school
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania. When I turned 17, I attempted to enlist
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: in the United States Army, but was unable to do so.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: I was a minor, and my mother refused to consent
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: to my enlistment. When I turned 19 years old, I
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: enlisted and served in the Army National Guard for six years,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: receiving an honorable discharge in 2014. During my military service,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: I was deployed during Operation Enduring Freedom and stationed in Kuwait.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: While serving our country, I became a U.S. citizen in 2009.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: During my final year in the Army, I finished college-level
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: courses and earned an Associate of Applied Science in Criminal
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Justice in 2014. I went back to school to earn
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: a bachelor's degree in Criminal Justice from John Jay College
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: in 2017. After I earned my bachelor's degree, I briefly
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: worked at the United States Postal Service until the opportunity
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: to work as a federal correctional officer for the Federal
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Bureau of Prisons. I decided to pursue the role because
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: it was in the criminal justice field. On June 24, 2018,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: I began working for the Federal Bureau of Prisons. I
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: was assigned to the MCC in Manhattan. Around March 2019,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: during my first year as a federal correctional officer, I
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: sustained an injury on the job. While on leave, I
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: missed training classes that were required to be assigned to
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: the SHU. These training courses were specifically related to the
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: duties and responsibilities to work in the SHU. When I
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: returned to work in June 2019, I was assigned to
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: work in the SHU, even though I never received the
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: required specialized training. Prior to June 2019, I never worked
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: in the SHU. When I was assigned to the SHU,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: I was instructed to sign a document that indicated that
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: I received the SHU training. When I advised my supervisor
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: that I did not receive the training, I was told
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: not to worry about it. I was instructed to sign
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: so that the facility could pass its program review. When
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: I was placed in the SHU, I was assigned to
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: the 4 p.m. to midnight shift most of the time.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Due to understaffing issues, my colleagues and I were required
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: to work overtime on a regular basis. To avoid being
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: mandated a work, a second consecutive shift at midnight, I
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: would often volunteer to work the 8 a.m. to 4 p.m.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: shift and then work my regular shift from 4 to midnight.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: When Mr. Epstein was lodged at the MCC on or
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: about July 6, 2019, I did not know who he
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: was or anything about his past. I had limited interactions
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: with Mr. Epstein. because he spent most of each day
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: downstairs in the attorney conference room. I wasn't aware of
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: the public's interest in Mr. Epstein until shortly after the
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: July 23, 2019 incident when he was placed on suicide watch.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: I wasn't working the shift when the July 23 incident occurred.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: On August 9, 2019, I was scheduled to work my
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: 4 p.m. to midnight shift. Because I had a personal
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: obligation that day, I could not work the 8 a.m.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: to 4 p.m. shift. As a result, I was mandated
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: to work the August 10, 2019 midnight to 8 a.m. shift.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: It was also my first time that I worked in
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: the SHU with Officer Michael Thomas. It was my understanding
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: that Officer Thomas was working the midnight shift in addition
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: to working his assigned 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. shift.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: On August 9 and 10, 2019, I acknowledged with full
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: candor that I did not execute the counts and the
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: rounds properly. I admit that there were tasks that I
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: failed to complete which resulted in the improper execution and
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: inaccurate documentation of the counts and the rounds. The failure
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: to execute my duties and my responsibilities properly and the
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: submission of inaccurate documentation were not related to Mr. Epstein
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: or his death in any way. The inaccurate documentation were
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: executed at the beginning of each shift and were not
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: done to cover up my conduct or the conduct of
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: my colleague. At the time, I considered what I was
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: doing as the MCC way. I use the term MCC
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: way because it's a phrase I heard countless times from
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: multiple colleagues while learning on the job prior to being
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: assigned to the SHU. There's only one problem with this
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: opening statement. It doesn't match up with what we've heard
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: from the other interviews with the OIG. In other words,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: I was trained in a way that suggested that the
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: policy guidance and operation protocols set forth in writing by
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: the Federal Bureau of Prisons may be applied differently at MCC.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: My conduct regarding documentation and execution of the counts and
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: rounds was based on what I observed experienced officers doing.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Because I believed that video surveillance cameras inside MCC were
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: working properly, I was not attempting to get away with
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: something that I believed to be a crime. It was
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: a surprise to me to learn months later that the
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: video surveillance system was not working properly. Again, my failure
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: to complete those duties were not because of Mr. Epstein.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: My inadequate job performance was due to my inexperience, inadequate training,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: and being overworked. Due to understaffing issues, the amount of
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: overtime I was required to do resulted in me earning
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: my full base salary and approximately six months time on
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: the job. As a result, my inadequate performance on the
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: shoe on August 9th and 10th of 2019 was based
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: on the dysfunctional culture at MCC, which was well documented
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: in multiple reports and issued by the Department of Justice
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Office of the Inspector General. The same report that didn't
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: say that he tried to commit suicide three times? That report?
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Got it. My responsibility was to conduct counts and rounds,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: was improperly executed because of severe understaffing, a lack of
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: adequate training, inadequate communication between management and frontline correctional officers,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: and other systemic failures. The systemic failures at the MCC
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: were documented by the Office of of Inspector General, and
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: multiple journalists long before the death of Mr. Epstein. The
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: systemic failures were communicated to the Federal Bureau of Prisons
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: leadership by the Correctional Officers Union leadership long before Mr.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Epstein's death. The only connection I have to the death
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: of Mr. Epstein is that I happened to be mandated
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: for overtime when he died. No, you were responsible for
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: making sure that that didn't happen. And you see what
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: they're doing here, right? Everybody's coming in with the same story.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Let's blame the system so nobody is held responsible. And
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: then we can all just get away with it. My
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: life has drastically changed since August 10th, 2019. Since that day,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: my life has been extremely difficult. This situation has been
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: one of the hardest things I've experienced in my life. Well,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: if you didn't fall asleep. For over two years, my
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: freedom was in jeopardy. After the case against me was
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: dismissed in 2021... With the unwavering support of my family, friends, co-workers,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: my attorney, Jason Foy, and God, I thought that I
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: would be able to privately rebuild my life and my career. Instead,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: I have been consistently the subject of threats of my life,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: conspiracy theories, and outrageous rumors impacting my mental and physical health.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: I have received threats from strangers. I have witnessed strangers
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: pontificate about whether I'm a murderer or that I'll end
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: up dead. I am consistently harassed at my residence, place
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: of employment, in emails, and on the phone. Every few weeks,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: there's a new article based on a new theory with
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: little to no factual basis. When Congress passed the Epstein
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Files Transparency Act, my personal identification information was released to
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: the public without proper redaction of my date of birth
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: and other personal information. Sorry, you're a government official. You
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: were being paid by the American taxpayer. How can we
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: hold anyone accountable if your name is redacted? And now,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: I've been asked to come before you to speak for
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: the first time publicly and answer your questions related to
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: the investigation and death of Mr. Epstein. My goal today
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: is to be honestly, my goal today is to honestly
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: answer the committee's questions to the best of my recollection
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: and finally put this behind me permanently. I would like
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: to ask the world to allow me to heal and
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: move on with my life. I'm not a criminal. I
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: didn't conspire to cause Mr. Epstein's death. It's my desire
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: to be left alone after all of today's interview. Thank you.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: And in the next episode, we're going to pick up
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: where we left off. All the information that goes with
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone?
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to dive right back in to
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: the Tova Noel transcript from her meeting with Congress. Question.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Thank you. I see we have another member of Congress.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Would he please identify himself for the record? Mr. Submarinian, Representative,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Suhas Submarinium, Virginia's 10th District. Question, thank you. All right,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: my time reads 10.18, and the majority's time will begin now. Question, Ms. Noel,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: thank you again for appearing here voluntarily today. I'd like
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: to start this interview by discussing more about your background.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I know you mentioned it in your opening statement, but
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: where are you from originally? Answer, Antigua. Question, Antigua, and
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: when did you first move? to New York. Answer, I
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: first moved to New York about, I first moved to
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: New York, I want to say about 2011. Question, what
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: made you decide to move there? Answer, when I came
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: to this country, I first lived in Pennsylvania. And after
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I graduated high school, I moved to New York because
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: I like New York better than Pennsylvania. Question, I know
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: you just did so, but can you briefly again, for
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: the record, walk us through your professional career? Answer, I
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: graduated high school at 16, went on to the military.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: When I turned 19, I gained an associate's degree in
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: criminal justice. I went on to gaining a bachelor's degree,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: also in criminal justice, and a minor in law. I
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: completed six years in military, one tour in Kuwait. I
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: worked for the United States Postal Service, and then, later on,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: went on to work for the Federal Bureau of Prisons,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: along with other employment. Question, when did you begin working
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York? Answer, June 2018. Question,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: you mentioned your job right before that was working for
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: the U.S. Postal Service. Answer, correct. Question, okay, what years
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: did you work at MCC? Answer, 2018, June 2018 to
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: August 10th, 2019. Question, how was it that you ended
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: up working at MCC? Answer, while working at the United
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: States Postal Service, I received a call from the MCC
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: to gain employment there and I accepted. Question, so someone
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: reached out to you Answer, correct. Question, okay, and why
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: did you make that decision to start working there? Answer,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: because I had the background in criminal justice and I
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: wanted to pursue my degree field. Question, what was your
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: first role or position at MCC? Answer, correctional officer. Question,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: were you ever assigned to more than one role while
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: at MCC? Answer, no ma'am. Question, can you describe what
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: your responsibilities were in that role? Answer, no. My role
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: as a correctional officer was to oversee inmates, to make
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: sure that they're performing their daily tasks and the functions,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: and to make sure that they're accounted for. Question, and
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: at what point were you assigned to the special housing unit? Answer,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: I was assigned to the special housing unit in June
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: of 2019. Question, and for the purposes of the record,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be referring... to the special housing unit
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: as the SHU, spelled S-H-U. Who first told you that
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: you were going to be assigned to the SHU? Answer,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: I don't recall exactly who told me that I was
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: going to be assigned to the SHU. Question, okay, were
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: you ever told that why you were being moved to
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: the SHU? Answer, so based on seniority. You get to
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: bid for your post. And the only post that was
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: left was the shoe. Question, how did you feel about
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: being moved to the shoe at the time? Answer, I
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: didn't want to go to the shoe because I wasn't
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: familiar with working the shoe. When I shadowed, I shadowed
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: on regular housing units, not the shoe. Question, okay. Miss
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Fiera Bend, we have a new staff member that's entered
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: the room. Will he please identify himself? Robert Edmondson, Staff Director,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Ranking Member, Garcia. Question. Was working in the SHU considered
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: a promotion to the rest of the staff at MCC? Answer. No. Question.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Why not? Answer. Because it was a housing unit. Question. Okay.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: So there was a difference between a correctional officer working
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: the SHU or any other area at the MCC? Answer. Correct. Question. Okay.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: What was your salary while working in the SHU? Answer.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: I don't recall exactly. Question. Okay. You worked at MCC
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: for over a year? Answer. Yes. Question. No. Was that
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: your only job during that entire time, or did you
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: have any additional sources of income outside of your salary? Question,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: additional sources of income was VA benefits. Question, were you
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: receiving those the entire time? Answer, yes. Mr. Emmer, question,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: in your opening you referenced, was it a workplace injury?
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: When did that occur? Answer, March. Question, March of 2018. Answer, no,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: March of 2019. Question, excuse me, thank you. And then
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: when did you return? Back to work. Answer, June of 2019. Question,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: thank you. Miss Fireabend? Question, so we're going to discuss Mr.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Epstein's death and that night more specifically in a little bit,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: but I'd like to first get a better sense of
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: the structure and the staffing roles at MCC. Answer, okay. Question,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: so you never mentioned that you were first assigned in
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: June 2019 to the SHU. Can you describe how the
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: SHU specifically differs from other units at MCC? Answer, so
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: for a regular housing unit, the inmates are let out
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: and they can move around, whereas in the SHU, you're
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: locked in for 23 hours and you're only out for
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: one hour, and it's a more secure area. The only
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: inmates that out would be like the orderlies. Question, what
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: are those? Answer, the orderlies are inmates that are considered
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: to have privileges. They're allowed to, like, come out, to clean,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: or the law library. Question, okay. I know you touched
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: on this in your opening statement, but was there any
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: special training that you had to undergo in order to
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: be assigned to the SHU? Answer, yeah. Question, and did
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: you complete the special training that was required? Answer, no. Question,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: why not? Answer, because I was out with an injury. Question,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: you mentioned, going back one question, that there were orderlies
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: in the SHU. Was Mr. Epstein considered an orderly? Answer, no. Question,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: why not? Answer, I don't make the decision on who
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: becomes an orderly. I don't know. Question, okay, do you
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: know how it was decided? Answer, of who becomes an orderly? No,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: I don't. Question, okay, back to the special training. Were
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: you ever directed by supervisors to say that you have
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: completed the training when you had not? Can you provide
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: more details about what happened there? Answer, when I came
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: back from the injury, I was told to report to
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: the supervisor. When I went to her, she asked me
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: to sign the training log to say that I completed
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: the SHU training because that was my assigned post at
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: the time. So I informed her that I did not
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: complete the training. She told me not to worry about it,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: just to sign it because they need to pass program review. Question,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: do you know if there were other correctional officers that
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: she told the same thing to? Answer, I don't know. Mr. Foy,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: may I have a word real quick? They go off record.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: They go back on. Noelle, oh. And when she asked
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: me to sign, she also asked me not to date it. Question,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: why was that? Answer, I guess because the date where
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: I was signing would have, would have conflicted with the
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: time that the training actually took place. Question, and who
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: was the supervisor? What was the supervisor's name? Ms. Noel,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Kimberly Shivers. Question, do you have any idea whether that
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: was an ordinary practice by supervisors for the shoe? Answer,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Question, understanding that you did not complete
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: the training. Did you know what the training entailed? Answer, no. Question, okay.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Did you ever hear anybody talk about the training? Answer, no. Question,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: when you were in the SHU, what was the breakdown
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: of your team? Answer, like how many people? Question, sure.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: How many total people on staff in the SHU? Answer,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: so the SHU had myself and two other correctional officers
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: on the 4 p.m. to midnight shift. On the 12 p.m.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: to 8 a.m. shift, it was two people. Question, did
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: you have people working over you? Answer, could you clarify? Answer, sure.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: When you were on shift, did you have any supervisors
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: that were also working at that time? Answer, yes. Question, okay.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: How many of those were there? Answer, the supervisor would
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: be considered the lieutenants. So there's about, I want to say,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: four or five lieutenants, all not on at the same time,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: but rotating their shifts. Question, okay. So when you were
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: on shift from 4 p.m. to midnight shift, it would
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: be one, One other correctional officer and one to four lieutenants? Answers, no.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: So on shift four to midnight, it would be me
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: and two correctional officers in the shoe. In the building,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: it would be the lieutenants downstairs. In the lieutenant's office,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: about two or three maybe on a shift. Question, okay.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Going back to the training, were you ever told to
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: complete the training after you started working in the shoe?
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Answer for shoe training, no. Question, okay. So you signed
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: and then began working? Answer, correct. Question, okay, thank you.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Did you know if the number of the people on
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: staff in the shoe was typical? Or were you guys understaffed? Answer,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: we were understaffed. Question, how understaffed would you say? Answer,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: it's supposed to be four people, not three, but it
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: was three. Question, okay. What kind of problems or issues
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: did that cause, the understaffing? Answer, a lot of mandated overtime. Question,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: so the overtime hours were not voluntary? Answer, no. Question, okay. Answer,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: can I clarify that? Question, sure. Answer, the overtime is
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: not voluntary, it's mandated, but we volunteer because when you volunteer,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: you get to pick your post when they mandate you.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: They put you where they want you to go. So
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: because we know we're going to get mandated, we volunteer
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: on the front end, like I explained in my opening statement,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: versus getting hit with the mandation on the back end
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: to where they need you to go. Question, who is
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: instituting the mandatory overtime hours? Answer, on that day, Lieutenant Kanata. Question,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: and how often would you or other correctional officers in
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: the SHU have to work overtime? Answer, every day. Question,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: how many shifts would you work a week? Answer, five
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: days of double shifts. But on your last day, you
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: can't be mandated. So it would be four. Question, was
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: every shift that you worked, did that include an overtime shift? Answer, yes. Question,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: so eight hours plus gets interrupted by TOVA. Answer, another eight. Question,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: so 16-hour total shifts. Answer, correct. Question, what were your
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: shifts like when you were working in the SHU? Answer,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: my shift was 4 p.m. to midnight and I had
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: one day where it was 2 to 10. Question, how
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: would you describe working a shift in the SHU? Answer,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: when you come in for your shift at 4 o'clock,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: counts are being done and immediately after that you're getting
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: ready to feed inmates. And after that, I kind of
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: always wait on the directive from the senior officer that
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: I'm working with Because I don't really know how to
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: work the shoe. So whatever they ask me to do
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: or tell me to do, I kind of lean on
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: the senior person. Question, was Michael Thomas, was he a
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: senior officer? Answer, yes. Question, okay. On a typical shift,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: you said that you would feed the inmates. Were there
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: any other responsibilities that you had on every shift? Answer,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: giving out toiletries, for example, toilet paper, rounds. Question, were
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: those responsibilities expected of you on every shift or do
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: they differ? Answer, in the shoe, yes. Question. Okay. Did
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: they differ by the time of day or the hour
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: or the shifts that you're working? Answer. No. Question. Would
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: you always complete all your duties? Answer. To the best
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: of my recollection, not all the time. Question. Okay. Why not? Answer.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Because sometimes we don't have enough people. So depending on
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: the task, it probably can't get done because there's not
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: enough people to get it done. Or sometimes it is
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: enough people, but because they're tired, it doesn't get done correctly. Emmer.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Did you prioritize which tasks were most important when you
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: decided or when some certain tasks weren't completed? Noelle, no.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: I just kind of went with the flow of whoever
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: I was working with at the time. All right, we're
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: going to wrap up right here. And in the next episode,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: we're going to pick up where we left off. All
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: the information that goes with this episode can be found
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: going to pick up where we left off With a
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Tova Noel transcript from her meeting with Congress. Question. You
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: mentioned that you worked with a senior officer and then
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: there were also people above you while you were on
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: your shift. Did you have a good relationship with those
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: people that you work with? Answer yes. Question. Have you
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: ever had any issues with any of your colleagues? Answer no. Well,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: that's not what the captain told us. Remember in the
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: OIG interview that we did with the captain, what he
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: said about Tova Noel? That's interesting. Question, would anyone else
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: ever instruct you on how to do your role while
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: in the shoe? Answer no. Question, what kind of authority
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: did you have to make a decision? Answer. I would
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: say I didn't have authority to make decisions. I was
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: just a correctional officer. Question. Okay. I believe we have
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: another member that's entered. Would you please introduce yourself for
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: the record? Good morning. I'm Melanie Stansberry. I represent New
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Mexico's 1st Congressional District. Thank you. Question. While you were
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: in the SHU, what cell blocks or areas were you
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: responsible for overseeing? Answer. All of them. Question. Okay. How
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: many cell blocks total were in the SHU? Answer. Six. Question,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: who can access the shoe? Answer, from the outside. Question, uh-huh. Answer,
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: anyone can access the shoe from the outside if control
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: pops the door and lets you in. Answer, or question,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: by everyone do you mean MCC staff? Answer, correct. Question, okay,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: so it's not closed off to shoe employees? Answer, correct. Question,
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: could you walk us through the procedures required for conducting
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: cell checks as an officer in the shoe? Answer, a
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: cell check. Question like rounds, doing your rounds. Answer, okay,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: so during the rounds, there is an officer that opens
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: the grill, which is the door of the tier. And
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: then the other officer goes down and checks on every
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: single person and come around, check on every single person
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: and exit. Question when you say check on every person. Answer,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: seeing an alive breathing body. Question, would that require you
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: to enter the cell? Answer, no. Question, okay. Would you
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: look through a window? Answer, a window. Question, would you
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: talk to them? Answer, sometimes. Question, okay. Can you describe
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: how you would access the shoe when you would start
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: your shift? Answer, when I get to the door, control
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: has to let me in the first door. Then, when
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: you come through the door, there's a second door, and
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: the officer on the inside has to let you in
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: the second door. Question, so you would say that's two
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: layers of security to be able to get in. Would
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: you have to scan in? Did you have a badge
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: or anything like that? Answer, no. Question, I understand MCC
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: is a high-rise building. Answer, correct. Question, would you go
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: up an elevator to get to the shoe? Answer, correct. Question, okay,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: what floor was the shoe on? Answer, the ninth floor. Question,
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: out of how many? Answer, 10. Question, do you think
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: there was any reason why it was as high up
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: as it was? Answer, I don't know. Question, okay. Could
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: you explain to us the layout of the shoe block
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: or the shoe unit at the MCC? Answer, so when
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: you enter the shoe and you walk towards the center,
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: the common area, there's a desk with computers. Before the desk,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: there are two tiers up and down. Then to the,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: if you're facing the desk left in the middle, there's
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: two more tiers up and down. And then off to
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: the far left, there's the last two tiers up and down.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: So it's really like a circle. It's like the desk
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: and then two tiers, two tiers, two tiers. And then
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: going up the last set of tiers, you could go
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: up the 10 south wing. Question, so does that make
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: it two or three tiers total? Answer, well, 10 south
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: is technically not connected. So in SHU, it's still six.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: But you can access the door there that goes to
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: 10 south, which is another unit. Question, okay, that's not
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: included in the SHU. Answer, correct. Question, how many inmates
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: are typically housed in the SHU? Answer, shoe, it varies.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Because the shoe doesn't have to be full because people
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: are placed in the shoe for different reasons. So it
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: could be any number. Question, why would inmates go to
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: the shoe? Answer, some inmates go to the shoe. Answer,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: some inmates go to the shoe for disciplinary segregation. Some
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: inmates go because they have to be separated. Some go
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: because they're high profile. Question, would they ever go for
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: mental health reasons? Answer, I'm not sure. Question, how long
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: did inmates typically stay in the shoe? Answer, I don't know. Question.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: You mentioned some inmates would go to the SHU for
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: disciplinary reasons. Some would go for the fact that they
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: were high profile. Why was Mr. Epstein sent to the SHU? Answer. Mr.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: Epstein was in the SHU because he was a high
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: profile inmate. Question. And not because of his mental health
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: issues at the time. Answer. Correct. Question. Okay. Is there
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: any reason why SHU inmates would be assigned to a
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: cell in the upper tier versus lower tier? Answer. No. Question. No.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: So like a high-profile inmate, wouldn't go to an upper
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: tier versus a lower tier? Answer, no. Question, okay. Where
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: was Mr. Epstein's cell located within the shoe? Answer, as
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: soon as you enter the shoe, the first two tiers,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: he was on the top tier, the first door to
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: your right. Question, do you know the name of the
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: staircase that he would have been next to? Answer, I
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: can't remember. She gets cut off. Does L tier? He
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: gets cut off now by her. I was going to say,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: I think it's L. Where was Mr. Epstein's cell in
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: relation to your station? Answer, so the cell block, when
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: you go up the stairs, the desk is like right
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: off to the left. As far as feet go, I
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: don't know. Question, was your station on the same level
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: as Mr. Epstein's cell? No, he would have been up
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: the stairs. And the desk would have been on the ground.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Answer is Noel. Question, would you estimate about how long
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: it would take for you to walk to a cell? Answer, oh,
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: to walk, like two minutes. Question, I know you mentioned
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: them previously. but who is Officer Michael Thomas? Answer, Officer
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Michael Thomas is the materials handler officer that worked with
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: me on August 10th, 2019, from midnight to eight in
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: the morning. Question, did he work the 4 p.m. to
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: midnight shift on August 9th? Answer, no. Question, who worked
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: that shift with you? Answer, Davis and Bonhami. Question, how
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: long had you and Officer Thomas worked together in the SHU? Answer,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: that was my first time working with Officer Thomas. Question,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like there was that many correctional officers
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: working in the SHU. Was it just happenstance, happenchance, that
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: you work with them? Answer, yeah. Question, okay. Had you
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: guys worked together before in any other MCC unit? Answer, no,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: we never worked any units before. Question, you mentioned he
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: was a senior correctional officer. Answer, yeah. Question, would that
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: make him technically your supervisor? Answer, so he wouldn't be
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: my supervisor. He was a correctional officer before, and then
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: he got promoted to materials handler, but not making him
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: my supervisor. Question, so you both had authority to make
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: your decisions while on shift? Answer, yes. Question, did you
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: consider him? I know you say you only work with
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: him one shift with him, but in that time, did
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: you consider him to be a good employee? Answer, no. Question,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: why not? Answer, because he was tired. Question, from working
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: long shifts? Answer, correct. Question, overtime shifts? Answer, overtime shifts. Question,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: mandated overtime shifts? Answer, yes. Question, did you and Mr.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: Thomas have a good working relationship? Answer, that was actually
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: my first time working with him, so I would say
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: we didn't have any relationship. Question, okay. Did y'all speak
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: during your shift? Answer, yes. Question, do you remember what
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: you discussed? Answer, I went to him to conduct the count,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: and he expressed to me that he was tired. Question,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: so because he was tired, he wouldn't do the count? Answer, correct. Question,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: so what was your response to that? Answer, okay. Question,
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: so did you in fact do the count by yourself? Answer,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: at 10 p.m. Question, okay. Answer, improperly. Noel, just to clarify,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Thomas goes on at 12. That count that I did
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: at 10 wouldn't have been when he was there. When
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: he was there, I didn't do any. Question, when did
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: you leave the MCC? Tova Noel, August 10th. Mr. Grant
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: jumps in. You mentioned that you did 10 p.m. count improperly.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: What about that made it improper? Noelle, because I did
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: it by myself. An account is supposed to be conducted
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: with two people. Mr. Grant, thank you. Noelle, you're welcome.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Questions again now by Ms. Fireabend. Question, so you left
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: August 10th, 2019. Why did you leave? Answer, that was
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: my morning. My shift was over at 8 a.m. Question, okay.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Maybe I should clarify. Leave MCC, meaning when did you
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: stop working for Metropolitan? Answer, as in, so the last
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: day I was in the building was August 10th. When
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: they terminated me? I don't remember the date. Mr. Foy,
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: but that was... It was years later, though. No, well, yeah,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: years later. Question, were you terminated from MCC as a
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: result of what happened the morning of August 10th, 2019? Answer, correct. Question.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: Was there an internal review that was conducted by MCC
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: following the incident of Jeffrey Epstein's death? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Was there one conducted by the Federal Bureau of Prisons? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Were you interviewed as part of those reviews? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: What were the findings of those? What were you asked
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: about in those reviews? Do you recall? Answer. I was
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: asked about the culture of MCC, the mandations, the counts,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: the rounds. Question. And what did you tell either MCC
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: or BOP about the culture and everything you just mentioned? Answer,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: I spoke about how often we were mandated to work.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: As a result of that, the job was not performed
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: accurately because people were tired. And I attempted to do
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: the count and the rounds, but it has to be
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: conducted with two people. So if the other person is tired,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: then it cannot be carried out accurately. I also took
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: accountability for performing my job and duties inaccurately. Question, thank you. Answer,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: you're welcome. Question. why was Mr. Epstein moved to the shoe? Answer,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Question, when did you first learn that
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein was being moved to the shoe? Answer, when
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: Epstein came in, he went straight to the shoe. So
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: moved like cell block or moved like into the shoe. Question,
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: into the shoe. Answer, he came into the shoe. Question, okay,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: do you remember the date of that? Answer, he came
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: in July of 2019. Question, were there any discussions amongst
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: the MCC staff, or specifically the shoe staff, that Jeffrey
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Epstein was going to be incarcerated at MCC? Answer, no. Question,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: was he known to you or to others, to the
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: best of your knowledge, before he was incarcerated? Answer, so
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: for others, I don't know. For me, no. Question, so
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: for the record, did you know who Mr. Epstein was
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: at the time? Answer, no. Question, had you ever personally
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: spoken to Mr. Epstein prior to him being moved to
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: the shoe? Answer, moved? He came to the shoe in July,
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: and I worked in the shoe from June. So to me,
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: he wasn't moved. He was always in the shoe. Question, okay,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: I'll rephrase it. So did you ever speak with Mr.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Epstein prior to him being in jail? Answer, no. So Mr. Epstein,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: as we all know now, was a high-profile figure. That's
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: why he was moved into the shoe. And his case
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: was pretty widely known and reported on before he was
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: incarcerated at MCC. Were any aspects of his case or
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: any of his crimes discussed amongst MCC staff? Answer, no,
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: not to me. Question, no one to your knowledge spoke
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: about Mr. Epstein? Answer, to me, no. Question, okay. How
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: long was... Mr. Epstein and MCC before his death on
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: August 10th, 2019. Answer. He came in in July to
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: August 10th. Question. And you were assigned to work the
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: shoe for the entire time that Mr. Epstein was held there.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Is that correct? Answer. Correct. Question. Roughly how many shifts
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: did you work during the time Mr. Epstein was in
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: the shoe? Answer. I don't know. To give you an
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: actual number, but from June to August 10th. Question. June
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: is when you started working in the shoe. Answer. Correct. Question, okay,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: but Mr. Epstein didn't get there until July. And you
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: said earlier that you worked four or five times a week? Answer, uh-huh. Question,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: shifts a week? Answer, correct. Question, 16-hour shifts? Answer, 16. Question, okay.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: While you were on shift, were you directly responsible for Mr.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Epstein's cell? Answer, no. Question, how so? Answer, I was
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: responsible for all the inmates in the shoe, not Mr.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Epstein's cell. Question, sure, but Mr. Epstein's cell was included...
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: In all of the cells that you were responsible for? Answer, yeah. Question, okay.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: How often were you required to check his cell when
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: you were on duty? Answer, the standard required time, conducting
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: irregular 30-minute rounds and counts. Question, so could you kind
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: of help me explain this a little bit? So you
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: did rounds that were every half hour? Answer, yes. Question,
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: but then the counts were different than the rounds? Answer, yes. Question,
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: how so? Answer, the counts were conducted, so like I
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: started for... There's four, there's a 10, midnight, 3 a.m.,
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: and 5 a.m. And you're responsible for each of those counts? Answer, yes.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Let me just clarify. So on the four, there's three
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: of us working, so there's two people that have to count.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: So I don't necessarily have to count. It just has
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: to be two people. Question, and this was the same requirement,
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: the counts in the rounds, for all inmates that were
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: housed in the SHU? Answer, SHU, correct. Question, okay, what's
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: the difference between a count and a round in terms
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: of what you were actually doing or looking for or
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: your responsibilities at the time? Question, because a count, you're
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: counting and also making sure that you're seeing a live
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: breathing body, but a round is just seeing a live
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: breathing body. You're not necessarily counting how many people are
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: in there. Question, so the rounds were a bit more relaxed,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: so to speak? Answer, correct. Question, so what were the
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: goals or purposes of a round and a count? I
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: know you just mentioned it, but answer around would be
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: to make sure that everyone's okay. Account would be to
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: account that the amount of people that are housed in there. Question. Okay.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: They go off the record. Then they come back on.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: And in the next episode, we're going to pick up
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: where we left off. All the information that goes with
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: this episode can be found in the description box.