Latest / The MOOD Podcast / How to Transform and Heal through Creativity - Matt Costello, E045

Transcript

How to Transform and Heal through Creativity - Matt Costello, E045 · The MOOD Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: My story in life is, like everything I love, leaves.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: It sounds like you've been through some stuff.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Photography is for so many people almost like a saviour.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: People turn to the camera if they're going through stuff, or to find something else, or to connect with people.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: I kind of got kicked out of school.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Funny enough, the only class I went to at school was photography.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I had a real chip on my shoulder because teachers told me I would never be anything in my life, and so I always had this burning desire to prove them wrong.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: If you keep that passion and you share that passion all the time, whether you're broke or not, people recognize that.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: What's your dream now?
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: How do you see yourself making money from what you do?
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: How am I going to eat next week?
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: How am I going to pay my rent?
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to keep struggling, you feel like the photography industry, or the art of photography, gets a little bit shrouded in things like social media influencers, content creators.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: I feel trapped in it now.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: When should I post?
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Does this look good on my feed?
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: What will this person think?
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Comparison is the thief of all joy.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: You mentioned, you didn't want to be good, you wanted to be great.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: What's the difference?
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: I wanted to start with a question that I saw in my research of you, just kind of how you explain who you are and what you do.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: You mentioned your photography and kind of people.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: You wanting people to join you on a visual and artistic journey.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you mean by that and why?
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: It's more for myself, like a personal, like something that I can reflect back on as like a visual diary from a journey that began like four years ago.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: But the body of work is I'm trying to keep it where the experiences are real and it takes me to like vulnerability with people and sadness and beauty and feminine energy.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: All this but to keep it in a candid, real vibe, like if I'm going to shoot with somebody, I want it to be like we meet for coffee before, like a few days before even, and I get to know who this person is, like their fears and worries in life and if I can relate to this person.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: So then when I shoot it can be like an open experience.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: But it's changed a lot since, obviously, being in Bali, but pre-Bali it was about entering these different worlds, the camera taking me to these different places that I'd never thought I'd be, and then just like documenting these things and then trying to make it kind of like editorial portrait, like, but this was like real crazy cool.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Where did I feel like when you're talking about that?
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: There's some.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: It's almost a reflection of your emotions and your your state of mind where describe that a little bit more?
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: um, I guess I'm just for me, it's okay.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: So I'm like I think I'm searching for like in every form of the world, I don't know love and authenticity and compassion is something that's inspiring me.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: I've been through my story in life is like everything I love leaves.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: So that's been like a battle and that's kind of how I ended up getting into photography a little bit a battle and that's kind of how I ended up getting into photography a little bit.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: So I want to try and translate that into my work and use that as the inspiration, like a feeling, and I'm.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's a reflection of, of where I'm at.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: So when it becomes all lost and and funny, then that's because I'm in a place where I'm just like where the heck am I?
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: And I can morph around into different groups and I can get a bit like influenced and but the main thing for me is to try and stay like no ego and just like focus on if I enjoy the work and there's a love in this, I don't know.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: I've started to like yeah, I feel like being in Bali.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: It's been quite profound with this because there's a lot of surface level things going on here that I struggle with and I just really seek like authenticity and and like just honest feeling.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: But there's all these agendas going on and different vibes that I get quite lost in and yeah, so I'm trying to find how to bring this way.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: I was shooting in europe and in new zealand before I left to bali.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, I don't know if that answered the question or not yeah, it does, I mean it sounds like jabbering around it's all good, man, it sounds like you've been through some stuff, so you know, open up if you want to.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: But before that let's rewind a little bit and talk about your roots in New Zealand, where kind of cameras and photography came into it.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, photography is for so many people almost like a savior.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: People turn to the camera if they're going through stuff or to find something else or to connect with people, whatever it might be.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: Where, where does the photography camera kind of fit into your background?
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: so come, well, I'll go back before a little bit before that.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: So I started, uh, I was kind of just drifting around the world just like traveling pre-anything, and I was just a bit of like a bum and I kind of got kicked out of school.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Funny enough, the only class I went to at school was photography.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Mr Moon, shout out, he was a legend.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: He was the only one that believed in me.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Sorry, mr Moon, mr Moon, daniel Moon, yeah, I would wag school.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: I had the worst attendance in history at Garron College, like I would just never go.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: And then there would be like my one photography class and I would go to that.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: And this was before.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: I was like knew where this was going to end up.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: But so then I ended up getting kicked out of school and drifting around.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: I moved to Australia and came to like Thailand and was kind of in Aussie for quite a while and just a bit lost, and I came back home and then my dad passed away.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: And that was really hard because I kind of grew up with my dad, like I was a bit of a dad's boy, because when I was little my mum did leave and like, not fault, she was just like in a situation where she left to the North Island and it was quite hard for her.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: And then I stayed with my dad.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: She thought I'd go with her, but I don't know.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: I stayed with my dad and then he became like he was a rock for everyone in the family.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: So then when he passed away, had this, um, this uh kind of like a drive to make him proud, because he only kind of knew me as like he was always like you gotta get a job, like what are you doing?
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Blah, blah, blah and uh.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: So then I ended up going to fashion school.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: I got a degree in fashion and started doing this and I thought that was my passion.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: So I was doing this for three years back in New Zealand, like with this, like Conor McGregor like attitude, where I was like fucking, had a huge ego, like I'm gonna be great, I'm gonna be the best, and then, uh, I made a clothing line.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Then I went on a reality, uh tv show project runway.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: It's like a fashion show.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: I came to new zealand and then I ended up on tv and how?
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: So how long ago?
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Was this 2018?
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, so I was on there and that kind of changed my whole mindset and like, um, what like in my life I'm like what I want to do and not working a nine-to-five, and like I'm seeing all these people like I'm going to like these crazy parties and like opening parties, and I remember watching like our little famous tv shows and then they're there watching our like opening night.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, like these are the shortland street stars and blah, blah, blah.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: And so I thought I found, like this new world, that I was like man, but my ego was like through the roof.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Not through the roof.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: I just was like on a, had a real chip on my shoulder because my teachers told me I would never be anything in my life.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll be a ditch digger, and so I always had this burning desire it was to prove them wrong.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: So this whole fashion thing was more from like a, not a humble kind of real passion.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: It was like a fight to make something To everyone.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: And then, um, so then that was happening.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: And then I met a girl and we were dating for four years in New Zealand and through this time I just I brought a camera.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: I really enjoyed doing photo shoots for my brand, right, and I was enjoying that.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: And then I bought a Sony and I was just like, uh, playing around with this, like just trying to learn and whatnot.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: And then, um, I don't know what happened.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: I just I went on this trip with her.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: I took this one photo that's like super profound for me, that like pretty much just changed my life.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: But I took this one photo of my ex-girlfriend.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: She's like running through, like the Milford sounds, in this open field, and it was like a real freeing, beautiful photo.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: And then this girl, lena Alice, shout out amazing photographer from Germany, cologne, that comes from a really cool crew of people and they're like this little like a crew.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: You know they're all I don't know.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: She just liked the photo and then reached out.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: And then I talked to her and I was going through this weird stage in my life because I was falling out of love with the fashion brand and, uh, I randomly put ten thousand dollars in the stock market and then suddenly had a hundred thousand dollars in like four months, no way so I was like now I fell out of there, I've got this camera, I'm I'm like exploring this.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: I've suddenly now like feeling like I have no stress or worries in life.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Going to buy a phase one, yeah man, I bought a Jeep Wrangler and that was pretty cool for the time and I kept the rest in the stocks.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: But to get back to the point, this girl reached out.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Now I feel like it was like an angel man, like somehow God sent me this girl, but we started talking.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: I was going through my breakup, she was going through a breakup and we just started talking.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: She was teaching me about photography and I was like in love with her style and learning so much more about that world and like the levels it can be and what.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: What's like her and what is all this cologne?
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: What's cologne like?
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: well, it's spray, isn't it?
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: that's smelly, yeah exactly so when like sprayed that on, and that was, it was all she wrote, and then, uh, so then she was from cologne, yeah, but she was living in australia at the time.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: And then, um, we just started facetiming man like every night we're drinking wine, just chatting.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: It was just like a cool friendship.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: And then you were still with your girlfriend at this time no, we'd broken up right.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: And then it was like covered, I had all this money.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: So I'm kind of like in my room every day, feeling quite like depressed, laying in my bed over the clothing line thing and then just chatting with her and then thinking about I have all this money, I've got the camera.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: And she just gave me random little tips, like something so simple.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: She said stop shooting in the day.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: She's like just shoot.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Like blue hour, like people go sunset.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: She's like try blue hour and I was like, okay, interesting, so sunset and blue hour, and then just play around with these tips she was giving me.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: And then I was like, damn, like there's this cool style that I was getting that kind of looked like Leica in a way, the colors and this like emotion to the photo that I really like, enjoyed, that, wanted to do.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: But I was only just touching it at this point and then I was like fuck it, I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave and I'm gonna move to Cologne.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Because within this period I became, became obsessed with people's work and with Leica, the brand Leica man.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: I'm so dreaming for this idea to be an ambassador for Leica one day.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: This is kind of like the driving force.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: And I was inspired by a guy, also Andre Josselin, amazing photographer, and she is childhood friends of this guy.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: So I was like there's some weird thing going on here.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: That's just like it seemed too perfect.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: It made sense of, like, how can we connect it?
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Um, to the point then where I just decided to book a ticket and move overseas to cologne.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: I was like, okay, if I want to really do photography, I want to die for this art.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Like I'm gonna, like I just sacrifice everything I could have.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: I had this money.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Everyone's telling me buy a house, uh, settle down, whatever.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: I was like, nah, fuck it.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Like I'm gonna, I'm just gonna go use this money to kind of get around, settle in, and I want to immerse myself in, like this German culture.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: And, man bro, like the fuck, I sold my jeep 30,000, chucked it all back into the shares everything's in the shares so I'm around.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, it went up and down a little bit, so I probably got like 89,000 now, kept some in my bank, and then we're flying to America first.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: So I was going to do a bit of a trip around europe.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: So I'm like cool, like I'm going to fly to america and, uh, stupidly, like I'm like I'll buy a leica maybe when I get to germany.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Wait a few months, learn, and then I'll get my, my leica that I've been because I spent the two years in covid learning to shoot, teach myself, while talking to this girl, lena, and then the night I flew out man on the plane.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: I lost like all of it almost, and because I'd left New Zealand I needed to sell, so I went from 89,000 to 15k overnight.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: So then that whole idea got like changed pretty bad there's some volatile stocks you're talking about.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: No, but I was just Tesla bro.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: I was was right, okay, I was in tesla for like two years and I don't know.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: I got lucky because and spoiled like I had did it before.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Everyone was jumping in the stock world.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: But I had watched elon's stuff some like 2011 and I seen like man, that's really cheap, like maybe if I just chucked 10 in and then it just like took all that six, four to six months, I had like a hundred K.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: It was ridiculous.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: And then you make money that quick, though You're going to lose it just as quick, and I'm we could lose it yeah.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: And that was part of my story for that, like I had to go for that.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: So then I've I'm like in America, going to Italy, croatia, london and then Cologne, and I'm just like broke at this point.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: So I like moved to Cologne, germany.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: I have like 4,000 left in my bank and I was like, fuck, okay, this is where I don't know anybody.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: But then so, lena, let me.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: When I first moved to Cologne, I lived with her family for the first month and then that was amazing.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: So like it's crazy that and I hadn't even met her yet, like we've just been online talking.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Now I'm with her family and then through the wall, I meet, um, I meet her brother, who introduced me to this guy who lives through my wall, uh, zani chris.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Um, this like german guy that just then they introduced me to their friends crew with my most amazing people I've ever met, and it was like the first time I felt real love and friendship, like a family and friends.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: These people like brought me in.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: I ended up like finding a flat.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Um, I just started shooting, struggling the whole time, but, uh, just keep shooting and then go chill with these people, listen to music, have after hour, do ketamine, fuck it like have a good time.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Learn like these, uh, these german ways, bro, there's something about germany, cologne, that is just like the world needs to go here.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: If you need to like look in the mirror, just go there, because they will never tell you what you want to hear.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: They'll tell you what you need to hear and it the mirror.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Just go there, because they will never tell you what you want to hear.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: They'll tell you what you need to hear and it's a mirror, because they're so like honest and caring in the right way.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: That's biblical to me.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: I read the bible.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: I'm not like religious, but I love to read the bible just because the, the message on love is so like authentic and real and that's what resonates with me.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: It tastes good to read and say so when I reflect that to the ways these people are living.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: It's so like honest.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: I I'm like drawn to it.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: So then, yeah, I like I learned a lot from this whole experience there about love and connections, and that's where my work started to develop into like this is what I want it to be, and I still think to this day, my body of work is about trying to tell the story of like Cologne, germany.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: I want to do a photo book.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: I wanted to share all these stories because I was in this tiny little town and all the people here are like making amazing music producers, artists, photographers, like the most open, creative people I've ever met, and I don't know man.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: It's like some special, something special going on in the water there, like far out there, rhine, I don't know what it is Rhine's, like this dirty ass river through Cologne, but they must be drinking that.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: But yeah, so I'm like in there.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Sorry, am I like chatting too?
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: long.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: No, it's great Good story.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: So I'm chilling in Germany learning this whole way, and I fall in love with a German girl.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: Not.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Lena, no, so I actually she ended up coming over.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: I met her finally.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: That was amazing.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: We're still like she's kind of just like blown away by the fact that it was an idea to come move here.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: I met on Instagram, facetiming to the point where I'm like I'm integrated into all her childhood friends.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: She's just like what the heck?
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: You know Cologne better than me.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: So the way like as the way I was surviving there, I started to enter the techno world.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: I was just filming techno DJs and that took me to some crazy places.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Man Seen some crazy shit and I got lost in drugs a bit, because you're doing it to stay awake and film and I need money.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: So I'm in scarcity constantly because I'm now broke and I'm trying to pay my rent and I'm trying to eat and people are looking after me and it's just like it's been crazy.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Should I just keep going to the point where I ended up in bali?
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so that I'm like floating around germany.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I'm starting to reach out to like some cool models that are like in berlin.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: I'm going up and shooting with these models with the money.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: The money, your income at the moment, or any income that you can get, is coming from techno like like crazy techno promoters that are just like paying me like three, four hundred euro for for the night shooting and then this dj want to pay that and some weeks nothing.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Uh, when I first arrived I got to shoot, this girl invited me and I got to shoot with some 41 simple plan.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: That was fucking cool like I just arrived and I listened to their music as a child my sister and that was kind of how I formed into this like musician, musical, concert photography.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: I started going with DJs traveling around a little bit, went with a really cool band, some like rock metal band we went down to like the border of France and it was like that's why I love this camera.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: It saved me in a way of putting me in the world of things that I just like.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: I hate rock music.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: But then the camera.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: I'm there on stage with them filming while they're screaming and the crowd's going crazy.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: I'm just like fuck Pretty insane.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: I'm like I find myself just stuck by the drummer, just losing it.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: I'm like this is like drugs, this is insane.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: So it's like, and then I have a appreciation and love for this art, so I think it comes down to me really loving to shoot people with a passion, because this is like the best thing, like people with passions are the best, and I want to not just judge.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: So many people are so quick to judge things.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: It's just off the bat because they don't know or don't understand.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: It scares them, it's fearful.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: You know, I chilled with boy racers in new zealand with my camera, to the point where I hated boy racers.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: And then I did, I did the shooting with them and I was like, fuck, like in cars, like this is a cool feeling to the point where I bought a boy racer car before I got the jeep.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: I bought this boy racer car just because I love the feeling of like the turbo kicking in and the culture of like racing and it was just like I can't understand now why they do this.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: This is like yeah, so that's anyways, I'm jumping all over the show.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Um, so back to cologne.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I'm chilling, I'm in love with like.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: I meet this girl, absolutely in love with her, like it was like a movie.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: Every day I wake up I'm like having coffee in this like street european culture, and I'm uh thinking about how I just come from this tiny little town in new zealand.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: It's sheltered from the world, you know, and uh, and you see it only on netflix.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: So like I'm there now, like I'm feeling like I'm in my own little rom-com.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: I meet this girl, I stop her in the on the street and we fall in love and she was like yeah, I still struggle with this today.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: I feel like that was like the first time I ever felt love.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: She taught me a lot that inspires my work today and it will for a long time, such as just like, like love that's honest and open and real man, without like game playing or egos, and just like communication.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: It's so important that I never really had this and she taught me, instead of just being angry and giving up, she taught me how to be and then so that I'm like, so grateful for that.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: It's like the healthiest thing and so I was supposed to go through this with her.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: So it's too too right and uh, well, it just does.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: It's just like everything was just like fitting into this world of cologne, like I was supposed to be here, the opposite place where I'm from, in new ze.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Cologne, like on the map, literally the other side of the world, yeah, and so then, yeah, we end up.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: This girl says there's a girl in Cologne, she's an influencer.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Sveenja, sveenja.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: I keep saying I think it's Sveenja.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Sveenja, sveenja.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Sveenja, no, I mean.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: But yeah, sivinja, I just say this.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: And then she is taking me to Bali.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: She wants to go to Bali and offers to take me with her.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: She'll pay for my trip and I'll do photography for her.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: We go for a month and then me and my ex at the time girlfriend, we all had dinner together and everything was all cool and like this is fine, blah, blah, blah.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: And then, um, just before leaving, we broke up.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: It kind of wasn't fine.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: I did some shit that obviously upset her and uh, yeah, but it wasn't intentional, but that kind of.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Then I'm coming to bali, I'm kind of broken and I end up here and then, uh, okay, cool, the only reason I took the job is that one of the german guys, chris, he was uh living in bali for a little bit, kind of when we met we talked on this couch about things and you know he wanted to go and see the world and he took off and came here.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: So I'm like, fuck, I get an opportunity to go see my bro.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: I really miss them.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Um, so then I was like I'm gonna do it.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: And then, yeah, so I came here, I slept in his room and chilled for the month had the time of my life, met some really cool people that I had.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: This fear of going back to cologne, of this heartbreak, was like quite damaging on me because now you're identifying Cologne with yeah, yeah, and I'm not gonna see her and it's gonna be hard and she's struggling and I know she was like really in love as well and she struggled a long time.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: But I think, yeah, everyone's like waiting for me to come back and I'm at the airport.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: I have like $50 in my bank account at this point, and then I'm at the airport and we're putting the bags on checkout and then I grabbed the bag before it was like rolling down the thing, and then I stopped it.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: I was like ah.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: And then I decided, no, fuck it, I'm staying, I want to see what happens here, I want to see.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking, yeah, fuck it, I'm staying, I want to see what happens here, I want to see.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking, yeah, chris is still here for a bit, but I didn't even realize he leaves in a week back to Germany.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: I'm just like he was going to Japan and then back to Germany and in my head I'm like, oh, it's all good, chris is here too, so I can chill with the homie.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: And then I stayed, stayed and I had, um, yeah, 50 bucks.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: And then I thought I had a place for two nights that I could stay for free in a bud.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: So I just spent the 50 on a taxi to a bud from the airport and then got some food and I just sat on the bed, bro, and just started hitting all the barley chats like one mil shoot, one mil shoot, one mil shoot.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: And then the next morning some girl like uh, hit me up and she did a two mil shoot.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: I took this and then I came back to uluwatu.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: I got a room, paid like half of the room, and then just started doing the same.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: And ever since that moment I've just been fighting, fighting for my survival here up and down man and uh, yeah, it been crazy, crazy year here.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: So far there's a lot of shit that's in between this whole story that I'm like jumping through, um, cause I'm a bit nervous so I'm just kind of don't know how to chill.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: But yeah, um yeah, it's been pretty crazy man, thanks for sharing.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: I know that was a long.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: I don't even know what the question was.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Interesting story.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: I think it was just something like how did the camera come into it?
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: So there's another part of this that started that too, before I met Lena.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: No, I had just met Lena and she had given me that advice with the blue light hour and I wanted to try something.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: And then there were these two women as kind of came into play Maddie and Ange.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: They're like quite powerful, strong women.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to shoot them in this kind of vibe and we ended up going out.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: But they were kind of good friends of mine at this point with just kind of becoming friends, and it ended up being a real vulnerable time, like talking about how I've just broken up with this girl that also thought I'd probably marry her and we'll get a house and whatnot, and we're shooting.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: But the girls are teaching me this whole, uh, appreciation for, like, how healing woman can be and the energy of a woman is something that I've lacked my whole life because, uh well, my mom when she left, she, yeah, I just didn't have that kind of nurturing from this a younger age how old were you when your mom left?
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: maybe like seven, wow.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: And then I moved in with her when I started college.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: But in there I'd see her like in holidays, but uh, she had like a crazy husband, uh partner, who was like sas, soldier, fucking, did everything.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Man, he was a monk and I'd go there and he would like, uh, it was like mental abuse but he was pushing me to be great and uh, so I kind of liked it.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: But the stuff that was going on was pretty intense which, um, I don't know I just had built this like hate for men as well, growing up and and like strong men can kind of scare me a bit.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: But also I like like it when it's like a push.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: If I'm pushed and inspired and like fucking like soldier vibe, I'm like kind of drawn to that because of this like traumatic experience in my life.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Um, so I'm like with these girls and they are showing me this like healing through everything in my life, which then like sparked this whole thing where I just like realized like just opening up and becoming vulnerable is like a feminine energy.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: But it's like, not of, like woman, it's just being feminine strength and I wanted to, and being feminine's, just being open, communicating, just being honest, not trying to pretend you're something you're not just I don't know and have compassion and love, and there's a reason.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: There's like this reason women give birth.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: There's like this whole thing where after the shoot, I went home and had this crazy dream and I couldn't sleep and I'm like spasming out.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: So I like I made a group chat and I there was like four girls that really impacted my life at the time, in this moment that I just like put them in a group chat and told them a paragraph of like what you've done for me just this whole week, and then they all became like really good friends and had this group chat and I don't know, maybe there's like a part of that that was a ego, I don't know, but it was authentic to me in this time and and real and that sparked this whole um like loving to connect with women in a healing way, kind of like a personal therapist, you know, and then using the camera to have these like vulnerable talks and then shoot and be like thank you, here's a beautiful photo of like your soul.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: You've just healed me a little bit more yeah, so if we were to you know, know, I'm looking at your photos.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: It's clear to me that the emotion that comes through, certainly the openness and the exposure, excuse the pun of your subjects not just in a physical way, but in a figurative way as well.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: How do you get that out of them?
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: How do you make them feel so comfortable and open with you that they are willing to maybe take some clothes off but also open up on a on an emotional level?
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: um, I think it's just talking like this, telling the story I'm not gonna take my clothes off, no damn, okay, I'm gonna leave, uh, nah, but just being an authentic man and the fact that I don't know, I don't have a sexual desire for this stuff, just because I have this weird anxiety with this and just from traumatic experience and breakup and I know what I want and how I want to go about it.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: So then it's these experiences from the girls I talked about before, maddie and An and ang, teaching me this power of a woman and then trying to capture that essence without it being too like um corny, I guess, but it's not talk to me through the actual process like I'll just you meet someone.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so like you reach out.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: I, um, I'll reach out and we do a shoot, and then they'll say, yeah, what did you have in mind?
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Got any mood boards?
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: I hate that.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: I hate like just let's maybe like get coffee and talk if there's a vibe, and then I want to build a safe space where you feel comfortable, and then they will kind of come up with ideas that they want to do.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: And a lot of girls.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: This stuff only started in Bali.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, this is what I'm actually battling with.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: I want to get away from this.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: A little bit why it's so good.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know, man, I don't know.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: I want to get away from it being just go to the beach and do some nude stuff, unless it's like I have a real experience with somebody that is deep and connected and it just feels nice and there was something of substance in it.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: But I don't know, it's hard.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Bali is confusing me because I'm trying to use this in a way of business now.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: The whole time I've been in.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Bali.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to now learn the business side.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: I was working around Stephen and then he was showing me a lot of this business side and the and campaigns, and I've learned a lot from this.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: So, like, shout out to that dude for sure, um, but I struggle with it too, like I feel like, oh, this is just, there's nothing in it for me.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: But it's finding that balance of like doing what you love and it's been true to your style, and trying to survive because I don't have anything to fall back on, because the key, because I don't want to give my energy to anything else other than this, and I am obsessed with this idea that I want to be great.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be good.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: I my favorite movies whash like all time.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: It's like the one movie, man, that captures someone, depicts someone with a passion that isn't is like what you have to die for this fucking art and I watch it every month.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Once a month I watch this fucking movie.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: I literally am going to watch it tonight.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: I was supposed to watch it last night.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: I'll watch it tonight because it just like I was supposed to watch it last night and I'll watch it tonight Because it just like it relates to me in a way.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: That drum teacher was exactly like my stepdad.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: I was going to say there's a parallel there, I'll show you a photo of the two.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: They look the same Bald, bald, yeah, like macho, yeah, but just the face and everything and the charisma and the tight black shirt and the privado attitude he got the Oscar for for that didn't he?
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: oh, it's the best fucking movie.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Is that an interstellar?
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: it's like oh interstellar as well.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Um he's in so much I can't remember like birdman bro oh so good.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Here's a story.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: This is explaining germany.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Man, I go to germany, I meet this dude, chris, and it's like let me.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: He's like gives me an experience of like come to my house, we sit on this blue couch, mean tv, sound system, and he's like have you seen?
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: He's like, gives me an experience of like, come to my house, we sit on this blue couch, mean TV, sound system.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: And he's like have you seen Birdman?
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Cause he, he loves Whiplash.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Fucking brilliant.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: I remember showing you that You're like oh, this is weird.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: Never, never seen it you got the Oscar for that as well.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a hundred percent, all of the acting in it.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Movies are second to photography, and well, I consider it all the same kind of.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, I love movies like good movies, yeah, equally, I fucking hate shit.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is 95 percent, yeah, yeah that's why I'm like bro, yeah, that's so true.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: I'm so like, like it's a.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: I need music, really good music that inspires me, before I make like film editing stuff.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: So I always start with music.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: But then movies inspire me so much, man, and because the way I shoot I kind of I love landscape style, invasive angles where it's like a cinematic still, like a still from a movie.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: This is.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: You know it's a lot in common.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: This is the best, the best fucking thing.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: So like I'm inspired by like uh, jasper, nor bro this, I don't know if I say I butcher his name that crazy director with like climax, the movie love irreversible into the void, is it all?
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: He's like the quentin tarantino of like um, I think he's russian, I'm not sure, I don't know him, or italian, but he's uh, I don't know, I don't know him, or Italian, but he's.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: You don't know these movies.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: No, I know the movies.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that he I hadn't heard of him.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: He's a French man, he's the director, yeah, and they're just all very fucking fucked up, but so beautiful in the same sense, and it triggers me every time I watch, like every time I watch, like Climax, have you seen this?
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: No, watch it, watch it tonight.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: So good man.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: And it's like coming back to the Birdman, like, yeah, zani's like my first time ever, try ketamine and watch Birdman.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, you watched Birdman on ketamine, oh my.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: God, first time ever trying it, and it was a journey where I have so many epiphanies about life in this whole moment.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Let's rewind, let's go back to Whiplash and the Paradise with his stepfather.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: Do you think that approach by the patriarch, do you think that helped?
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: the student, the drum student in Whiplash, to kind of come out of his rebel a little bit, just to push through that.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's where I kind of liked the whole experience too.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: I'm so grateful it happened because you know he'll take me up into the bush hunting and I'm like quite young and he'll be like I'm not gonna, you're not gonna, eat unless you do this task and it'll be like we're going through crazy flooded rivers where I'm nearly drowning and I'm like holding on to his gun belt by my finger and then he's's like okay, we can't cross here.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: He's like I nearly let you go, you would have been dead.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: So then we were like climbing this cliff face to get out of this flooded river.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: That's around the way to get out.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: He's like pushing my ass up the hill and I'm just and he's just telling me to grab onto the shit hold.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: So he pushes me up, I grab on.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: He's got a bull mastiff dog that then he's picking up, putting on.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: He's got the gun like it was insane shit to go through as a kid as this all the time just pushing, pushing.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: You'd be having dinner at the table and is that healthy?
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: I think it's not healthy.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: But you need to like, you need to go through the shit to become either you just become like 90 percent of the world and a safe environment.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: You need discomfort and you use that.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: I could go one way or the other, but yeah, I don't know.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: I think people need to, that there's not enough and I say this in the nicest way there's not enough suffering in today's world.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Right, we live in such a world of abundance and comfort and everything's easy.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: You don't have to be bored.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: If you don't want to be bored, I mean, that's a beauty to being bored anyway, which is another conversation, but it's the whole like people don't go through most, the most world-changing and beautiful art, whether it's photography or painting, sculptures or writing, whatever music, yeah is born from suffering.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah is born from trauma or is born from difficult times, not necessarily suffering, but just going through, yeah, life, and that's what makes a person interesting, their work interesting, um, and that's, I think, that's why I gravitated towards your photos as well yeah, so I don't really want you to stop doing those photos, but it's interesting to hear.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: I'm just trying to where would?
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: you turn to what, what where would you go next?
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: I know I still want to do these photos, but I want to do less of the bali vibe that.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: It's kind of gone down like man.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: I'm probably the end of this week.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: I'm just kind of at this point where I'm like, um, well, how am I going to eat next week?
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: How am I going to pay my rent?
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: I have these amazing german people that I met recently and they've brought me into their house, beautiful house.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: They've given me an amazing room, comfort, security, safety, um, to a degree you know, not to where I abuse that, but they're trying to help me win.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: They see my story and uh, benny, regina, josie, these, these three people are like my angels of bali, you know.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: And uh, I've from the struggle, I'm doing things out of scarcity, man.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: So like, yeah, I'm having these vulnerable moments and and and beautiful shots.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: And then I've like made a Patreon that I'm like trying to use this as well to then like, uh, create some sort of security on the side.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: But it's nothing crazy, it's just an uncensored photo that you can't put on Instagram for such.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: But a part of me still was just I don't know if it's like am I supposed to do this or not?
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know, because I loved when I was in Germany and it would just I'd be out and I'll meet a group of people and then we all go back to my place and we're just having a crazy after hour and I just bring out the camera and I'm just taking like these invasive shots and I have this visual diary.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Uh, this stuff, it's it's.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: It's a beautiful thing for me but I'm I'm balancing the two, because to be around like a beautiful woman and in that and she's vulnerable man, that's like a healing power, like that's very it is powerful and to have that respect where they trust you, makes me like, feel better, and then I trust myself more and it becomes like this very delicate beauty.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: You know it's like, I don't know there's like, and love and beautiful woman are like the most amazing thing on earth, most inspiring thing at the moment and where I'm at now, I find this so inspiring for me and this ability to I don't know learn more about myself, and I've had some crazy conversations and I've met some crazy cool people along the way in this environment.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: It's the age-old um dichotomy of having kind of a purist point of view.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: I just sheer passion and love for the art, just wanting to do that and being a pragmatist on the other side was like fucking I need to eat, yeah, like so.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: You know, and often and and you know I don't want to patronize you at all, but you know you're not the only one, like most people, including myself, like I have this thing that I love doing and I just want to do that.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't want to do multiple, I don't want to do all the other shit that comes with it that you have to do to pay the bills and to get get money coming in.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: So but then I feel your pain, but it's a.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: It's a battle that all, all creatives kind of go through, and I don't think it's a battle that all creatives kind of go through and I don't think it's ever really reconciled unless you are top.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Echelon, like 1%, is where you don't have to get out of bed if you don't want to as a photographer.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Right it's like you, just call the shots.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: I feel like I'm living that life sometimes, even though I can't, you know, and that comes to this little bit of a struggle with having the wet money.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: At one point I forget I'm like man.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: I used to feel so fine.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: I used to pay for people, I used to be able to help.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Now I feel like I'm just a fucking street dog.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: I am a street dog right straight up, deep down.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: I'm a street dog and I'll never lose that and that's why I can relate to so many people in Cologne too, like this crew.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: They're just like the best man.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't know even.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Just, I always hear like but sometimes you gotta go do the things you don't want to do.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: I just don't, I want to just be like nah, I'm just gonna keep struggling until it happens, because crazy shit is happening.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: I have been shooting really cool brands and it's starting to.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: I'm feeling this momentum right now and I feel like I'm at this point where it's going to switch and I just I got to believe in myself.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: If I don't, no one else will, and if I die, then fuck I die.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: Trying Like.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: That's straight up how I feel, you know.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, good for you, man.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: Well, it's easier said than done.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's so many people that don't do it and have the same demons in their head.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: Trust me, I've been there and it's.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: You're just waiting for you know.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: But keeping that belief and keeping that pursuit, it, it comes, and not only does it just come with time, but people recognize that if you, if you keep that passion and you share that passion all the time, whether you're broke or not, yeah, people, people recognize that, whether they're your friends or clients or collaborators or just anyone online right who might reach out, they might change your life like lena did, yeah, you might get the next that might happen, whether it's a financial thing or another thing.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: But yeah, you're right does that, that the fact that you had all that money one time.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: Does that still play on your mind, like I?
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: had 100k in my bank account one day and then, yeah, man, I think now, like literally just the last five months, I've just got over it.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: People kill themselves over shit.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I was always struggling my whole life.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: So I was like man, like god is great, like glory to dad thank you're watching out for me Like it was just like the perfect storm that I could feel.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: Good, you know.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: But the weird thing is I have nothing now and I'm so much more happier than I was.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: I was so much more happier than I was when I had that money.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: I had that money and I was driving my Jeep Wrangler thinking fuck, but like it was just empty.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: And I was driving my Jeep Wrangler thinking fuck, but like it was just empty, but it was.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: It is hard to to reflect back on like not worrying so much.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: What's your dream now?
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: How do you see yourself making money from what you do?
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: Is there a pathway that you see, okay, I'm targeting these couple of avenues.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so right now I'm in this phase where I have, like I've met a really cool girl, luca um she's and I kind of teaming up and just doing like a setting up cool campaign ideas, building my elevator deck, my portfolio, and I'm really trying to land like just to network and land brands in um in Europe and try and just get cool campaigns and use this kind of other style that I have that I've learned in Bali, with like brands and models that I can use to make money in Europe and get back to Europe and and see what happens with that.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: And, yeah, balance my style that I love to do and then the business side and the style that I can infuse with a brand that they have a vision and what?
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: they want.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: So I'm really trying to break in here and I have some leads going at the moment and I'm on Raya.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: It's so handy Maybe I shouldn't share this.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: Is that the agency Raya is like that celebrity dating Raya.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: It's so handy, like maybe.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't share this.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: Maybe people don't.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: Is that the?
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: agency Raya is like that celebrity dating app bullshit.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay, I don't know.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: And you can.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: I go on this and I ain't no celebrity.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: You just get referred and you can go into it.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: You're on Project Runway.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but fuck man C-list, yeah, d-list, man c list yeah, yeah, d list, bro d list for sure.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: And um, I just go on and then look at because it's all kind of like people with passions and businesses and brands and models.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: So then I'll go on like location and just search all through europe and then you can actually look through like the people that have owned brands or whatever, and then you go, oh cool, I grab the instagram.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: Hey, I just seen you on raya and here's my portfolio, boom.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: And like they respond.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: It's quite cool, interesting tactic yeah.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Raya.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: I mean majority are on there looking for some Poonani, Poonani Yahoo.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: We all love a bit of no.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: That'd be in the trailer you talked earlier about and this is something I really want to kind of dive into.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: A lot of people, but you mentioned you didn't want to be good, you wanted to be great.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what's the?
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: difference.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Man In photography.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: In photography, I think, being good, like it doesn't matter how well you take a picture at all at all.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: It's uh, it's about your heart, where your heart is, how you feel, um, about this body of work and I don't know really leaving an impact on yourself and the person or whatever experience you had with this.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: I believe it's uh, it's just, I don't know, man, it's just really aligning with an authentic self that you know, this is my true body of work.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: This is something that I'm really like, uh, proud of and uh, people then being inspired by that too, and then you're changing lives with this inspiration because you're on a truthful energy I don't know, attracting this.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: I think this is like a, a great like.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: I mean on, andre jocelyn like to bring him up definitely has this kind of vibe.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: You know he's inspired so many people around the world.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Same with lena man, she's inspired me so much, so it's like that is greatness for me.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: And then being able to eat and pay my rent, I'll be happy.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: You know I all I want is to pay my fucking rent on time and eat some nasi gore whenever I want and I'll be happy.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: You know, then I've reached greatness and get a leica, and so this is the other, this is the other thing, and a jeep nah, fuck the jeep.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: Uh, there was like a hundred dollars to fill that bitch up.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm swearing, you got me.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: No, it's good.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: The thing that started everything is this goal to be an ambassador for Leica.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: I want to do this.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: I have like….
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: Why.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: Status.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: No, I feel like this camera and my style was built for me.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: I shot with it for the first time two weeks ago.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: A girl had it which one?
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: The Q2.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: It's just an experience, the feeling can just, I'll be shooting more, I'll be doing more with my.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: I hate pulling out my clunky Sony out of the bag and it just feels like mechanical and a tool, whereas I want it around my neck and I want to just, like every day, start shooting.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: I want to tell my story through a visual book, photo book.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: I'm going to have Lena help me do this, you know, because, uh, she started the whole thing in a weird way.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: But I just feel like I there's so many people that have like her and want like her and they just buy it.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: But like I feel like I come from this tiny town and I sacrifice so much.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: And I moved to Germany where I understand Germans, man, on like a level that many don't.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: Everyone's like why Germany, we're so ugly, the people are so, but it's like you're so wrong, man, germans are the best.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: And there's this, I don't know, infusing myself in, that I feel like I've deserved the right to shoot with this brand.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Now In my head, this is just me in my own little world.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: This is your pitch to Leica right now.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: Well, man, I've been hitting.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: They're annoyed, bro.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: I hit them up all the time.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: They've liked the main Leica page and they're like we love your work.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if anything happens we'll reach out.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: That's good.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: At least you get a response.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they respond every now and then it's quite cool.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: And actually I got.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: I went to the Kuala Lumpur Leica store, met a guy there and he's trying to sort me not an ambassadorship but a Leica sponsorship where they'll send me a Q3 or a Q2 to shoot with for a bit and maybe I can tell some sort of story with this and then I feel like that could be a really cool foot in the door.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: But I don't know.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: This is like a conversation that I have with him and they had Chinese New Year and he's like, because the big manager of the area said okay to it, and now I'm just waiting, like, is this going to happen?
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: And I believed it was happening, and so then I will never get excited until it's just gonna happen.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: And I believed it was happening, and so then no, I will never get excited until it's like done and actually in my hands.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: So this could be a thing, but I don't know how's your approach to the personal branding side of it?
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: we're talking about reaching out to potential clients and doing pitch decks and media campaigns.
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: We we talked a little bit off air about your instagram name oh yeah where does silly duffers come from, and how does that play into your brand?
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: um.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: So it first started off the silly duffers um, I just made it because, uh, my dad always used to call me a silly duffer, like are you so?
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: And my dad used to be like, oh, you silly Duffer?
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: Um, as a kid and it was just a really cheesy name and, uh, I never really worked out what, like what, where he got that from.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: Um, so then one like 25 years later I went back to my hometown where life was my mum, my dad and me, my sisters, where it was like normal, and uh, it was really weird.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: I went back to the house where I was like that one time I could remember like normal family life and I wanted to walk through the house and the lady that brought us off up, the lady that bought the house off us, was still there, like 25 years later, whatever.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: So I went back and I'm walking around the house and I'm just like man, this is so crazy like remembering like the little slat in the wall that you could pull off, and it was like.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: I remember when we first were there, when we're younger, we it just fell off the wall and there was guns and drugs in there and my dad's like what the fuck?
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: And they just bought the house it was.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: It used to be a drug house.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: It was crazy like I'll take those yeah, yeah, I mean it was a little country town, I'd be the cop, the cops are probably in on it too.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: But, um, so I'm walking around and then it was just like this weird cool experience where, um, I'm walking out and I look across the road and there's this little sign it said duffers creek.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: And I was like fuck, like no way.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: And then I went through this whole thing in my head where I was like man, my dad would have been like waking up in the morning, going to the same job he's a stock agent traveling around like checking farms and cattle stock, so he's waking up early.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: I could picture him like having his coffee get in the car, like here we go another day reverse, and he probably every day would see this fucking sign duffers creek.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: And he would probably speak to himself like oh, certainly in his subconscious, it's not in his conscious and then at night I do something stupid.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: He's like oh you silly duffer.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: So I don't know, it was just really weird.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: I named it before I even knew that, which was like a really cool thing.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: And then the other funny thing about it was that Duffer is like the ugly friend in America.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: So if you've got a Duffer, it's like the ugly friend, it's like a TV show.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: In the UK, duffer is like if something's broken it's a Duffer, right yeah, broken, same thing Ugly.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: But I mean everyone's beautiful.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, let's be honest, we're hit and miss.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: But I mean, let's be honest, we're hit and miss, but yeah.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: So I thought it was kind of a funny play on words.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I read a fact the other day.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: I was reading an article in the news about UK's health problem, which is at its biggest crisis ever, as I think it is with most of the globe.
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: Three quarters of the UK population is either overweight or obese.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, what the fuck?
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Well, because about 10 years ago it was a third yeah right, three quarters as obese three, it's like america, right and you do recognize it.
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: I mean I'm very privileged, I travel a lot to the us and europe and stuff, and you do, you just walk it.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: Walk along the streets now and compare it to your memory 10 years ago yeah, yeah and there's, like everyone, especially in the uk and the us, everyone, you see, is, as is, overweight yeah, yeah, yeah, um, I understand everyone's like yeah, no, but you know, just let them be and everyone's beautiful?
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: no, they're not yeah, that's true, it's unhealthy.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a drain on the the tax system it's a drain on the health care system.
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and have some more fucking self-respect yeah, yeah, that's very true anyway, no, this is true, man.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: It's something that I'm like super feeling myself.
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: I'm in this state where obviously I'm surviving and I'm like falling into the.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: I feel like I'm getting fatter and I need to start looking after my health a lot better.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: Especially mentally, I mean, I agree with you on a mental standpoint.
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: It's certainly where I've matured in my reach 40.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: Like everyone is beautiful in their own respect up here, yeah, maybe apart from pedophiles and rapists and murderers, but maybe they have other conditions that we don't know about.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: Anyway, have you seen that Nickelodeon doco about that.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: No, I want to.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: Actually, we just started watching again.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: So I watched a film called Scoop about a week ago.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: It's a British production.
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: It's got Gillian Anderson.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: It's basically a take on the.
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you knew about it, coming from New Zealand living in Germany.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: Uh, the Prince Andrew scandal with Jeffrey Epstein.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah and he did an interview 45 minute interview with Newsnight, which is like a big BBC news production.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: It's, like you know, serious news, serious interviews, and he went on there in 2000, 16, 18, something like that.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: Anyway, they've just made a film about how they got that story.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: So I watched that.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: It was okay it's like a six out of 10 thing but it sparked my interest again in the whole debacle.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: Fuck me that guy.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: So anyway, we started watching the Jeffrey Epstein documentary on Netflix.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: If you haven't seen that, it's very good.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: The Jeffrey Epstein one.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein, yeah, you know who he was.
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, and some of the stuff he did was insane.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: I've seen that one and he had the Miami and the massages and the island and yeah thousands of underage girls.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: I don't even.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: I don't think he's dead, to be honest really nah, I don't think he's dead.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: To be honest, really, nah, surely not?
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: I think that fucking hope he is yeah, but I think it's like fake death.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe I have no idea, I can't really comment, but it's just fucked up what's going on yeah bro, everyone like all these rich people, I think just get bored and then they're just like what can I do?
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: for some thrill, yeah, and curious much power.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: They can actually get away with anything and they, yeah, they, they, yeah.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: You got like the ryan garcia stuff happening, yep, um that whole world, the p diddy thing oh, the p diddy thing.
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you just don't know what's going on with these people.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man, so many heroes, just like fucking full weinstein, yeah all the yeah.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, god knows what's going on with trump.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm actually not here over I've been around girls that I've shot that know that world even more, and yeah, it's just this whole….
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: Well, models, you mean like models in the….
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can imagine it's….
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: I mean that goes back to my question about how you really get these females to feel truly comfortable in your presence without… you know, and I can't't.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: I find it.
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: I've been in a photo studio one-on-one with women before, and I feel like uncomfortable and I break the idea and make a whole kind of thing of it.
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: I don't meet them before yeah coffee and stuff.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: But I'm just, I don't want to put a foot wrong.
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's a very sensitive space yeah between us.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: So I'm really curious to how like I know, you meet them and talk to them, but you know when you're, when you're shooting with them you want to give us some tips, basically, if people want to kind of follow that that I think you just got to be a authentic person, that you trust yourself enough in that space.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: Um, it's hard to say like there's no formula, because then it's trickery.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: You know it's not natural and it's not.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: I don't seek that.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: It will be like I can just meet a model and have a conversation without even wanting to shoot.
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: It's just I like I love woman, company, man, I feel safe around it, and then that leads to shooting and like I don't know, I think they just have.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: I always do get the compliment that you make me feel very comfortable, blah, blah, blah.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: But I don't want to abuse that power either and I don't want to like I don't know, as a, as weird as you could get judgment from this.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: But at the end of the day I don't care what people think as long as my heart is right.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: And this I try to read the bible, man, that's it like.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: So you read the bible but you say you're not religious.
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: I grew up, I was like raised catholic and then I went christian and then I went spiritual and universal and then nothing.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: And then some movies made more sense to me than anything.
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: But just now I'm just in this place where it resonates with me to just wake up, go to the beach in the morning and just read like scripture on love, like romans 12, if anyone will, even if you're not religious, just read romans 12 and it's like love is not self-seeking, it does not boast, it's humble.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: You know, feed your if your enemy is hungry, feed them, like jesus sitting with the prostitutes and the homeless, the less fortunate.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: You know, I think deep down I crave.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: Someone would see me in this light and, you know, not judge me because of like I have nothing, because a lot of that's happened in bali.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: Fuck, that happens, man yeah, but fuck those people yeah, I know, but we're like it took me so long to find, uh, really authentic people.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: Man, actually it was such a such a mission.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: I keep getting used and abused here and so why do you?
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: think that is because it's all about status.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: Everyone comes here because they're lost in some way.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: Even I'm lost, but I'd rather be lost in Germany, that's for sure.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: But I just feel like there's a lostness here and a clout and who's going to survive?
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: And I know the owner here and I do this.
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: In the expat circles, not with the local people.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: No, not Indo, so opposite not.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: I mean I guess there's the um.
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: I mean I guess there's the definitely not regarding any of the Indonesian culture or any of that.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: That's beautiful stuff.
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: I just think there's a.
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: I agree with you.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: There's a whole.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: There's like level, there's like the tourist and there's like the fresh expat, and then there's like the expats that are opening things, that are kind of hiding away, keeping to themselves.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: I was trying to break into that level was harder.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: It's us.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you're very authentic, yeah.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I have no interest in that world at all.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: We've been expats for 12 years and there is definitely a status immediately when you become an expat, especially if you're young Like I'm an expat.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: Or like you know, they come certainly to Bali and influences that come to Balii or tourists that come to bali a.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: They treat the island like shit and then, like you said, it's like oh, who's doing this?
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: And you go.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: I just think honestly, I think that is the world we live in today and it's we have a microcosm of it here, so it's a little bit more.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: It's a little bit more in focus to us yeah but I also think um the whole status thing is endemic in the west yeah, yeah, we're seeing it here.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: People come bring it over here as in like it's, it's everywhere okay, it's pervasive, it's like it's in it's just everyone is chasing.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: Interesting how you talk about your parents and what they wanted for you.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: Mine were the same.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: It's like we want you to go to school, then we want to go to university, get degree, and then we want you to get a stable job yeah that pays well and it's you know, that's your road to basically kids just conditioning, and then retirement at 65, 70, because that's the societal construct we want to put you in yeah, and we're so we're bred to like breed status games and competition and ego, and I've got a bigger house than you and I've got a better car than you and it just stinks it's just toxic yeah and so I think we have a little bit of that here, but in a different way.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Like you said, it's a bit more um, it's a bit more instagrammy yeah look at me and look where I am.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, um, but you know, we moved away from the uk for a reason yeah, that was a big part of it.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just don't want to play these games yeah yeah, people, it's life's more.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: Everyone has their own journey.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone has their own ups and downs, and everyone has their own struggles.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: But you know if you're authentic and real about it and the battle is not caring what other people think and that's that's true power yeah, that's true freedom that is man, that's, that's that was.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: There's another thing I'd like to point out.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: As good as like the, there's love and fear man and the once you, it's like, seek the truth and the truth will set you free right and truth is love and anything that is fear-based.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: If you just push past that fear, you realize that's just nothing, it's fake, it's fear, it's an illusion um how does you know?
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: talked about your dad a little bit and and your mom leaving you at an early age.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: I want to know how that that formula of your early lives now transpires into your photography and your style and kind of what you put out there in the world, because, as we talked about earlier, a lot of it's a reflection of yourself.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: But yeah, you know is there anything specific you can think of in terms of your upbringing and and not necessarily traumas, but those kind of yeah, I think life experiences?
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: it's like lacking this.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: Uh, I think I'm always shooting with women.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: I'm safe around women because I lacked that right at a younger age and I feel like I'm just like gluttony, a little bit like taking it all in.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: And my mom's a fucking legend, like I love her, but she didn't just like she didn't willingly do that, it was just a very crazy circumstance, brainwasheryhery from someone and moved away and thought I was coming with her, you know, and I was like what the fuck?
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: I'm staying with my dad.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: So it's not like I don't want her to see this and think she did bad, because I've forgiven her for all of that and she's like an angel.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: But I think that reflects into my work for sure with, uh, with what makes me just feel comfortable and safe and this journey of I don't know man.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: You just sit with a woman and talk and you'd be two guys in a room and then a woman will sit down and you feel this like oh, that's like it's exciting, and you feel this energy you can bring out, it's important to be around, that you can say anything, can be vulnerable Not all women but you find your crowd Energy attracts.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: It's unfortunate that.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: I totally agree with you.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: It's a completely different energy.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: Women are 10 times better than men.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: Let's put that out there.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: I give men sympathy because of evolutionary makeup yeah right, we, we were.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: You know, for tens of thousands of years we've been out there hunting and scavenging and protecting and fighting against other men to, to protect their family.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: And so there is the, there is this ingrained ego, this ingrained machoism this ingrained masculinity, but if that can be directed in the right way then it can be only positive.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: But yeah, for people to to find men and friends that you can really honestly like 100, be authentic with, is rare, yeah, and that's, that's whereas for women it's you, the.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: You know I could think of a few off the top of my head that I could sit and have a very honest conversation with Like pour my heart out.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: So you mean like finding this with men that same value?
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: More difficult.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, 100%.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: Probably more difficult, but that's why I love Germans man, because I found that there.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I have two very cool best friends back in New Zealand but they have kids and kind of in their world.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: But I had this open spirit with them where we could talk about anything and it was really nice.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: And then I found this just whole new level of it in Cologne and, like the people I live with now are the same, found that here in Bali in this house and just like super, I don't know, it's just like the most authentic.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: It's like they're all autistic but they're not.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: It's just.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: German.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: They just say what they want.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm like, fuck, I stayed in Bali.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: And my friend Chris is like, yeah, that's your problem, bro.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: Like what, what do you get yourself out of there now?
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, that's so true.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: If I ever have issues, he doesn't just say things to reflect on what I'm saying, it's just there to be heard.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know that.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: As artists, do you think we have an ethical responsibility to what we do, what what we create, how we show it and how we share it with?
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: sorry, yeah, 100.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: I think the bigger you go and the more influence you have.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: For sure that would be like super important, I think, for myself right now.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: I'm definitely like you have to have this, but I'm still figuring it out for myself, like where I am.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: It's hard, I don't know.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: Man, it's a confusing world.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: If you start worrying about everyone else and what they think too, then you just become not doing what you want to do.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: Do you feel like the photography industry or the art of photography gets a little bit shrouded in things like social media influences, content creators?
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: I feel trapped in it now.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: I never thought I would and I didn't care about it, but now I'm like man, when should I post?
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: And does this look good on my feed?
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: Like what will this person think?
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: Or whatever, and I'm trying not to try to like comparisons.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: The thief of all joy man, it's like the best quote and it's like so true.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: But I really think, yeah, social media is definitely damaging a lot, but it's also doing a lot of good, and I just think maybe there's just no such thing as good or bad.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: It's just, it's just is and it's your perspective on how you want to do this and all I can think of.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: No matter what, whatever issue, if you can just find a way to come at love with this then.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: It sounds so cheesy, but like love will always conquer darkness.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: I feel like we need to go on a retreat and just go on a retreat and speak love.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: But even on.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: That's the other thing, bro.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: This Bali thing is so messed up Like that's not love for me, that's a Bodhian thing.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: All these spiritual fuck boys, man, they manipulate a woman into doing things and they're just, it's all sexual gain and not all.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: But there's really good, I'm sure very good life coaches and things out there.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: But you know, you can go do a two-month course or a four week course and then not just like capitalizing on this and and, uh, I don't know, letting loose on the world and I just don't feel like there's a genuine.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: I just struggle all the time like I feel like whenever I'm around these types of people, they just want to tell me what's wrong with me and I'm like I'm.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: Did I ask for this?
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: No, you should do this and you should do that, and this would be really good for you.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just like projecting yeah, and like I don't know.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: And they're always like I'm so happy and abundant and I manifested this and I'm like, fuck, what the heck?
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: What's going on?
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: It's okay to hate, it's okay to fuck up, it's suffering.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: All this is you can admit that.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: It's like they don't want to admit that, because once you face that ego death, it's really like a dark and scary place for people.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: So we'll end our conversation with conversation cards.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: These are just, I guess, life questions, life hack kind of topics, yeah, so what I'll do is I'll ask you to pick anyone hand it to me, but, like cards, I'll read it out to you.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: And who wrote these.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: I'll read it out to you and who wrote these?
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: the guests, any guests that Stephen Bartlett had on?
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he wrote.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: Sorry, they wrote a question for the next guest so every question is from a different guest.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: This question is from Rochelle Humes.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: If you could turn back the clock on one day this year and do it differently, what?
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: day would it be, and why one day this year?
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: fuck I mean we've only had three and a half months of this year, so I guess in the last 12 months in the last 12 months, one day your time in bali.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: There we go.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: You've been here a year I think I would, uh, I took, I mean, it's like a lot of things that I've done that I think, oh, why did I do that?
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: I don't regret it because of the experience that I learned, but it's true.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: It's cliche but true.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: But I think I regret taking I won't name names, but uh a certain uh campaign for a certain big brand that I just shouldn't take because of the fact that I got the opportunity, based on my scarcity and a lack of assertiveness, to be like this is my worth and then just ending up in a fucking shit show of um, all sorts of crap so you, so you did it for not enough money Not enough money at all than being pushed into more work and like what the heck?
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: to the point where voice notes got sent that are just like.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: I'm just in shock that people were just like this.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I won't name names, but yeah, man, intense stuff.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: Name some names after this show yeah, yeah, for sure mate, it's been such a pleasure having you on thanks for sharing your story.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: It means a lot.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: I'm glad that you can feel safe enough in this space to chat, and I'm sure we'll have plenty of other chats.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: So thanks for taking the time to come up and spend this time with me.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: Appreciate it the time to come up and spend this time with me.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: Appreciate it, thank you for having me.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: You're welcome, man Cheers brother.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: Pleasure, Pleasure.