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Guaranteed Income for Peaceful Retirement - Tom Wall #6220 · Financial Survival Network

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You know, generally speaking, no matter how much you're able
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: to save, you will show up a retirement having earned
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: your last dollar in the working world, hypothetically, and you
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: will be terrified to spend your money because that's the
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: last of the money you're going to earn. And I
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: think that is creating an epidemic in our country where
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: people are under enjoying their retirements, spending far less than
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: they could because of all the possible what ifs that
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: come along with retirement.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: You are listening to Carrie Lutz's Financial Survival Network where
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: you get valuable information you just can't find anywhere else
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: to thrive in today's trying times. You need the Financial
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Survival Network now more than ever. Go to Financial Survivalnetwork
• 0:42
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• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Survival Network now more than ever.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: And welcome.
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: You are listening to and watching the Financial Survival Network.
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: I'm your host, Carrie Letz.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: Will feel like me.
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: You're getting on in your years. You're thinking about retirement.
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: Even if you're not going to retire soon, you should
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: be thinking about retirement planning. We've got a real expert
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: on with us now, Tom Wall. Tom actually coaches other
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: people to help you.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: Figure out how to retire.
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: You can find his book over at Permission to Spend
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: dot com. Tom, it's great to have you on the show.
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: So if there's one piece of advice then you give
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: to somebody in their say, mid fifties, looking forward to
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: the day that they one day might retire, what would
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: that be?
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: My advice or my caution to you would be that
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: you will be afraid to spend. You know, generally speaking,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: no matter how much you're able to save, you will
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: show up at retirement having earned your last dollar in
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: the working world, hypothetically, and you will be terrified to
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: spend your money because that's the last of the money
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: you're going to earn. And I think that is creating
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: an epidemic in our country where people are under enjoying
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: their retirements, spending far less than they could because of
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: all the possible what ifs that come along with retirement,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: and you know, in terms of how long you're going
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: to live, what kind of health shocks there may be,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: does World War three breakout in three years?
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: All the things that keep us up at night. Yeah, sure,
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: And that's that's really the crux of my work.
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: So how do you get past that, how do you
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: like give yourself permission to spend?
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: It's a good question.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: So in the past, you know, and you think way
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: back when people just worked at companies for thirty years
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: and got their pension and the pension took care of them.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: That was what you did and someone else kind of
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: handled it for you. So we now live in a
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: world where the majority of folks don't have that arrangement anymore,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: and they need to take a pile of money and
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: basically be their own pension fund manager, you know, manage
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: that for the rest of their life. So there are
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: you know, time tested one hundred and fifty two hundred
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: year old strategies, you know, with life insurance and annuities
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: and very unst products with names like that that actually
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: their sole purpose is to help people do that, to
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: transfer risk to major insurance companies so that they can
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: spend and enjoy all that they've been able to accumulate
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: rouring their lives.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: So you think you still think insurance the time all
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: tested product is the way to go here.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: I think for a lot of folks it is.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: You know, I want to look at my planning, you know,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: the reason I own permanent life insurance is you know,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: people talk about buy term and invest the difference right,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: So usually.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: So relatively savvy folks will say, I'm just.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Going to own cheap term insurance while I'm in my
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: working years and then I'm going to cumulate my millions
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: in my investment accounts and then i won't need life
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: insurance later on, which is true, you know to a
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: large degree.
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  Speaker 3: That's that should work that way.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: But the problem is if you don't, if you don't
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  Speaker 1: continue to have, you know, a guaranteed legacy to the
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: ones that you love, and you don't have a liquid
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: source of capital outside of your investment portfolio, and you
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: don't have something that guarantees an income stream for.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: As long as you live.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: You know, you're always going to be investing and managing
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: your money based on probabilities and those employees you know,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: may not be accurate, and they're based on what the
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: last one hundred years gave us in terms of returns
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: and volatility. But there's absolutely no reason that the next
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: hundred years needs to look the same. So that's where
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: where it fits is guarantees and predictability, not necessarily performance.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: It's just it's just a matter of putting in that
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: predictability into the plan, right, So.
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: So maybe it's not your whole retirement, but it's kind
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: of no pun intended uh an insurance policy if you will.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think there's there's there's some bad
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: actors in the business that have given, you know, some
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: of these strategies of bad names. And I say bad actors,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I think most advisors are trying to do the best
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: thing for their clients. So it's not always unsc unscrupulous individuals.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just uneducated folks. So I think there are
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: people in our in our space who will tell clients
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: just put all your money here, it's all guaranteed it's
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: going to go up like it's a triple A rated company,
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: and that's that's that's not a good idea either, you
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: know it putting all your eggs in one basket and
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: regardless of safe, that less it is.
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: So yeah, absolutely not. It's it's a balance of the two.
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: So what kind of insurance companies you look at.
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: You're looking at mutual life insurance companies.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, my preference is the big old mutuals.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: So you know, it's just some names that people might
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: recognize is like Northwestern Mutual, New York Life Mass Mutual,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: you know, guarding those kind of companies. You know, they
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: all date back to the eighteen hundreds, you know, and
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: they've they've been paying dividends reliably to their to their
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: policy owners since that time. And I think the big
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: the big reason that I say that is because they're
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: mutually owned, so you know, they are not necessarily owned
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: by their policy owners. But I'm ready for the better
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: policy owners. You know, the stock the stock companies that
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: you can trade in the open market.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: They are serving two masters.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: They are trying to provide value for their policy owners,
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: but also you know, pay quarterly dividends to their investors.
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  Speaker 3: So it becomes hard.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: To sit on the same side of the table as
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: your clients and deliver value over long periods of time
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: when you're at the same time trying to extract value
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: for others who are not part of that contractual arrangement.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: So that's that's big reason and why I personally think
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: that the big mutuls are the place to go. That's
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: really what you want to build in your portfolio.
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: Okay, so you know what about commissions that you pay
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: for life insurance? I mean that comes out of your return,
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: right it does.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: So this is another knock against you know, insurance based
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: products is typically their commission based product, So there's an
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: upfront commission that comes out. It's not it's not something
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: that directly is paid by the client, but it comes
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: in the form of you know, the early the early
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: years in these contracts tend to have lower values because
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: of that. That said, you know, if you work with
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: an investment manager who's managing a portfolio of investments for you,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: there's fees and charges on that as well, much lower,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: but on an ongoing basis, and based on the calculations
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: I've done, that'll actually cost you more over the course
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: of your life in terms of fees and expenses than
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: a typical insurance contract that's well designed.
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: So I think that's overplayed.
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  Speaker 1: I think that's there's a there's a space that tries
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: to paint the industry as a bunch of salespeople that
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: are trying to to pull one over on you. But
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: all financial products that you acquire, no matter how you
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: acquire it, have a fee structure that you're paying and
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't think that's necessarily at odds with
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: with the client success story.
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there's no free lunch. It's here right, exactly right.
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: But there's fees and then there's fees. How do you
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: judge you whether you're paying a fair fee or not.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Well, again, that's where it comes down to mutuality. So
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: these companies are operating for the benefit of their policy owners.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: So you know, there's when these these companies will put
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: products in place that are guaranteed. They'll guarantee a death benefit,
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  Speaker 1: they'll guarantee cash values, they'll guarantee that premiums can never
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: change on the annuity side, which guarantees an income stream.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: They'll guarantee payouts for as long as you live. And
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: typically they do as they control the expenses through the dividend.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: The dividend payout, so you know, to the extent that
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: the insurance company is profitable. In generating profits, they really
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: can only do two things. So they can make they
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: can make strategic investments to make their general investment account
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: perform better or and or they can give that back
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: to the policy owners in the form of a participating dividend.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: You know, they these policy owners essentially you know, own
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: the company indirectly. So when there's profitability, it comes back
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: to you. So again, these these contracts tend to have,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: you know, high, high guaranteed cost structures. But because they're
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: sitting on the same side of the table as you,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: they're operating for the benefit of the policy owner. It
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: all comes back. It all comes back in the form
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: of a non guaranteed dividend. When I say non guaranteed,
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  Speaker 1: it's not like the market where it goes up and
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: down and can be taken away from you. You know,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: it's really just the rate at which they enhance those guarantees.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: So it's it's hard, I would say that's that's probably
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: the hardest part about these participating whole life contracts is
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: there they have an opaque fee structure. You can't actually
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: see exactly where every dollar is going. Uh, they just
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: kind of give you. They just give you the performance
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: and you have to interpolate, you know, what performance you're
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: not getting, you.
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: Know, to kind of come up with with what those
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: fees are.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: But like I said, over over a long time horizon,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: it's typically less than be paying inside of an investment account.
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: So in today's modern world, you got cryptos, you got
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: a lot of competing investments here, Uh, is the amount
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: going into these uh insurance contracts. Is it still increasing
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: where these companies at now.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always increasing, you know, as as the consumer
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: base grows and the population grows. I think where it's
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: going toward is you know, there's there's a few different
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: markets in this space. There's a there's a market known
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: inside the industry as like the infinite banking crowd, and
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: these are people that are using the unbelievable tax advantages
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: that life insurance has and they're they're overfunding these policies
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: and using it as a separate, you know, investment if
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: you will.
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: There it's it's not an investment, it's an insurance contract.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: But they're they're funding these vehicles to the point where
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: they look like you know, alternative to savings and bonds
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: and some of that stuff. And then there's the other
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: side of the spectrum, which frankly I think I live
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: closer to, which is really death benefit focused.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: For me, you know, I've got two boys that I love,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: and you know, my future spouse in retirement, like these
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: people are, I'm going to be obligated at the very
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: least to provide my spouse with something when I die.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: I make sure that there's there's money left over for her.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: But also I want to leave a legacy to my children,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: so a permanent death benefit guarantees that delivery of future money.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: I know that that legacy is covered, so that when
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: I get to retirement, I can take my investments and
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: annuitize them or aggressively spend them down. And if I
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: do that over twenty or thirty years and there's not
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: a whole lot left, I've got that backstop and I've
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: got those guarantees in place. So it's less about you know,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: fighting over rates of return and you know what, I
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: think this aviation of this asset classes, and more about
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: I know that those things are covered, so I can
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: then go with the rest of my money shoot for
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: the stars and buy crypto and invest invest in businesses
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: and real estate and all the things that have historically
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: generated big wealth. But if that's all, I think that
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: the takeaways, if that's where all of your money is
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: in these risky asset classes, and then you know, a
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: year or two after you retire, some you know, geopolitical
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: calamity happens in the much it goes down sixty percent,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Like that's just untutable.
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: I just remember in economics class, the professor quoted somebody saying,
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: you know, in the long run, we're all dead.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: So hopefully the long run.
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: So when you're looking for the company you want, I mean,
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: these companies have been around for like one hundred and
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: fifty plus years, a lot of them, haven't they Yeah.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: I mean the majority of the majority of the big ones.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: They predate.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: They predate any company you can think of in the
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: financial space. You know, the mutual fundedn't even wasn't even
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: invented until early nineteen hundreds. So yeah, they are time tested.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: If if anything, if there's a knock against them is
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: that they're boring. They're boring, they're predictable. They're going to
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: be here in one hundred years because of the way
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: they invest and manage things. And that's that's where they live.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: That's essentially the space I think people get. People get
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: it a little bit twisted when they try to compare
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: these contracts to other investment classes and say that I
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: can do better elsewhere, And the answer is, over long
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: periods of time, on average, you should. The point is
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: to have it in place when when the market doesn't
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: go up and you're in a period of time when
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: you can't just go earn more money in your job
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: or your business to make up for that.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: Interesting, And you know, this kind of formula works all
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: over the world, Asia, Europe. You know, started in England,
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: in the UK in the seventeen hundreds in these coffee
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: shops and here it is now even in the digital world.
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: It's still the same basic contract. Yeah, a lot of
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: things have changed, but the contract, it's all about a
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: contract between you and a company, right, That's where it
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: all starts.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's an important distinction. It's not some people
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: will call this stuff, you know, an asset class. It's
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: not an asset class. It is a life insurance contract.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: But what I what a lot of my research and
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: study has been done is we're basically how I got
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: here was I've been on stages for twenty years in
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: front of advisors, you know, talking about whole life insurance
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: and does this make sense? And basically the question in
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: my mind was always is this just a good a
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: good product that's probably going to serve you well that
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: you don't have to apologize for, you know, twenty years
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: down the road, or is this actually actually the best
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: thing someone could be doing with their money, and what
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: I what I found in my in my studies historically
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: was these contracts tend to give you bond like returns
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: over time because they're backed by portfolio of long term
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: corporate bonds and mortgage lee among all the stuff that
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: these general investment accounts of these major mutuals invest in,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: so that that flows through the contract to you. But
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: because there's a contract between you and that portfolio, there's
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: guarantees in place that your cash values must go up
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: in value every year. The only question is how fast
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: you've got complete access to them along the way, and
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: that's that contractual nature.
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: Is actually the positive.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Of this is that there's there's an insurance company indemnifying
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: you from all of the risks inherent in building a
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: portfolio of your own, and you get better risk adjusted
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: returns as a result. You know, you get basically bond
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: like returns, but none of the risk and volatility. And
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: that's what the smartest minds of all street are trying
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: to figure out. They're not necessarily looking for the best
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: absolute returns, They're looking for the best returns relative to
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: the risk and downside we're taking on.
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: Everybody wants the risk free return, but you know treasuries,
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: and there's obviously risks in bonds as well. You're not
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: worrying about the equitable or you know mass mutuals bond
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: portfolio when you sign the contract, that's their.
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: Problem, right, exactly right?
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So all right, hey, Tom, just tell us again
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: how we connect with you, how we find you on
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: the internet.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I do a lot of I actually publish a
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: lot on LinkedIn, so you know LinkedIn and Tom Wall,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: I'm easy to find there. Permission to spend dot com
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: is where my book is, so for if there's advisors listening,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: they can actually use that book as a tool with
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: clients to help have the conversation. But individuals will get
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of it too. It's available on Amazon and
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: all formats. And you know, I'm just here to serve
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: individuals and try to tell the story in an objective
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: academic way, which a lot of the industry frankly isn't
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: doing well.
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: We appreciate your candidness and your depth of knowledge is
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: quite obvious. And if you have any questions or comments
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: for Tom myself, shoot me an email kl at Carrie
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: LUTs dot com.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: The link to tom site get the book is in the.
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: Show notes to this interview on Financial Survival Network dot com.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: While you're there, we.
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: Just ask that you please sign up free free newsletter.
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: Like over sixty five thousand other FSN community members, have
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: a lot of useful info there.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: Tom, thanks for coming on. We'll talk to you again soon.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, I appreciate it.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to Carrie Let's Financial Survival Network your
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: solution to today's trying times. For the latest, go to
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Financial Survivalnetwork dot com. Financial Survival Network now more than ever,