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Trust Fund - Generosity + Building Master Plan · Goodlife Church Formation Podcast

• speaker-0: All right, here we are, another episode of the Good Life Formation podcast. We are back on track. Pastor Dave, where are today? speaker-1: I'm in my office, sir, with the mood lighting. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Is there any any light bulbs in danger today? speaker-1: Probably. We We can't guarantee. if you get preaching some good stuff, Jack, if you're if you're coming from the Word of God, then we are yeah na who knows what's gonna happen. speaker-0: Yeah, right. Okay. And where on earth is Rebecca? speaker-1: Rebecca is working very hard on Sunday's Coming Message, the the conclusion of our Competing Kingdoms series, where she will be talking about how the the progression of those that series was it starts with the postmodern secular atheistic kind of worldview, what that creates, then how certain sections, week two with certain sections of the church went, hey yeah, and then actually accepted a Marxist demonic worldview. oppressor, oppressed, privileged, people that are talking privileged. my god, you know what? it's a wild, wild journey, and you try to mix and meld those sorts of things. And really, there's a lot of churches that have thrown out the Bible to follow progressive worldview, and living in Newcastle, that is not an abnormal sight as you drive down the street. and so we we want to stay strong because God's moving, rushing like a river with the churches that are standing firm upon the word of God and his truth. Now, what What means is if you have a passive weak church, but also your world is passive and weak, there are no values to stand by. And so Islam, not Muslims, we'll get we'll get to that in a second. You've got to understand the difference between Islam as an ideology, it is a political ideology wrapped in the disguise of a religion. And so Islam. Is an ideology and has an agenda. And I tell you what, a passive, secular, atheistic, postmodern, non-Christian, no values worldview or nation with a passive non-biblical church. is canon fodder to the to the to the agenda of Islam. And so there's a lot of really good Muslims caught under the thumb of that thing. And so what we're doing is we're wrapping up our competing kingdoms and Bex is I don't know will you know this Jack but maybe not everyone knows the amount of study the amount the amount of work that Bex will do all of that and then boil it back in to a message that we can be very very clear how to We know the truth, and then what do we do about it? You want faith that leads to works, Jack. And so we want to love Muslims. I think you don't have to go to the other side of the planet. The mission trip has come to you. We will still go to the other the edge of the planet, but the the edge of the planet has come to us. And so we get to we get to actually bring the truth of the gospel to to to people that are caught in that ideology and fudging the truth and pretending like the truth of Jesus Christ explaining it away instead of just explaining the goodness of God and how the plans of God are awesome. No Muslims come into Christ when that Christ is not presented with strength. You've got to know it. Your generosity will open the doors, and that Muslims got a chance of knowing Jesus if you present it. Well, so Bex is studying, working hard, getting into it, praying. you better believe that if you're going to preach the truth, especially on a topic like this, there's going to be a spiritual battle as well. So she's Dotting every I and crossing every T, and sends her love to the Good Life Formation podcast. And she says she trusts us to just do it in her absence. speaker-0: Does she? Really? I'll need that in writing. Hey, just to clarify something you you said there. You you described the edge of the earth. And i I I think you meant the ends of the earth, but you said the edge and I just wanna I'm just wondering whether the world has edges. is it bec is that because it's flat or like a a round edge? What do you think? speaker-1: Jack, I don't know if I want to go into that topic. I feel like I should leave it ambiguous. Okay. I could have I I could have miss I could have misspoken. speaker-0: Well you did say edge twice, which makes me think it was very calculated. speaker-1: I I d I d I can neither confirm nor deny Jack. speaker-0: Okay, well moving on. I although the background looks similar, I am not in my usual location. I did notice that my two year old has had some fun on my shirt for those watching YouTube. So I haven't speaker-1: Yeah, I saw that. I did see that. Are you sure it's your two year old that had fun with that shirt or you said that someone didn't speaker-0: Yeah, someone was dribbling while I was with my two year old. That that's what did happen. And got the got the red bandage on today, been out d donating blood. So we talk about generosity around good life. we all have the means to donate blood well most of us, unless you've got tattoos, which mo maybe you shouldn't if you follow the scriptures or not. but most of us are able to give blood, so speaker-1: I can assure you I can assure you that if you have tattoos, you can give blood. I can I can confirm that one. Anecdotally I can confirm that. speaker-0: Okay, good. All right. Well, well there you go. So it's it it's the the Thursday currently following the Sunday. So what happened on I wasn't there on Sunday, what happened? speaker-1: Well, why were you not there? Where were you? The house of the Lord was you know we were we were worshiping, we were, you know, hearing the word of God, growing together as a community and you weren't there. I wanna know why. speaker-0: I went to the edge of the earth, to reach people. speaker-1: Ha ha speaker-0: I went to the went to the town where where there are many people who are on the edge of eternity. Port Macquarie, Retirement Central. It is it is where people go. speaker-1: It is Heaven's waiting room right there. speaker-0: The last destination for a lot of folks. so yes was away at the at the Port Inquiry seventy point three, half iron man. Still got the the tattoos slowly rubbing off. a few good lifers getting around up there as well, actually. So that was good fun to be cheered on by a good life squad. speaker-1: I I heard all about it. I heard all about it. Half of my touch footy team was there cheering you on. speaker-0: There you go. So yes, I missed it. So what on earth happened at Good Life in my absence? speaker-1: Well, we we we wrapped up the series on trust fund and so trusting God with what he's entrusted us started out of the gospels where Jesus said you can't serve God and mammon which is an interesting word. It's not a word that's used very often these days, but mammon is about the spirit of money. the Bible does say it's money is the root of all kinds of evil. speaker-0: No, doesn't. speaker-1: If you are only reading part if you're only reading part of the sentence. It actually does say that money is the root of all kinds of it. But it says the love of is actually just before it. So we've got to understand the full context is the love of money, and that is the spirit of mammon. It doesn't matter whether you've got lots or don't have lots. It's whether it's got you. And so what God was looking for was looking for someone who could be deemed as the father of faith. We want someone to start a dynasty, a legacy. And what we're looking for is someone where the sparkly stuff doesn't attach to their soul, Jack. And I've had times where we've been Very well off. I've had times where I've been quite the opposite. So much debt and nothing to show for it. And the whole point would be that you've got something of faith to pass on to the next generation if that financial situation, the love of money, doesn't attach to your soul. That's the spirit of mammon. So Jesus in the scriptures, in the in the gospels, in the gospels, one in five verses is all about how we deal with finance, how we deal with assets, how we deal with Budgets, how we deal with treating situations in business. And so Jesus says, where your treasure is, there is your heart. And so you've got to deal with it. If we don't actually deal with that and go through the scriptures and say, God, do I trust you in every area? Yes, no. Now, does that, if that's a yes, does that include finance? Can I trust him? Not just to get from him, but to live his ways. Do I have a childlike faith and a trust that God is my provider? If you can do that, you'll understand the three big principles are trust, stewardship, trust. And generosity. And so on Sunday, I got to the journey of Abraham, who showed those three things through to the point where God sets up the dynasty for him. He's the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And so we set up that whole journey of Abraham's life and got to the point where he's he's he's wanting the promises of God. He's just desperate to be generous. That's actually how he lived. God blessed him. So he had great stewardship, had great faith. You see the ups and downs, even when he made big mistakes, comes back. but Yeah, so that that was the journey. It was Genesis twelve through to Genesis eighteen, which included the circumcision scriptures. we skipped over the the the the covenant of the you know splitting the animals and walking between the two. That's in chapter fifteen, which is an interesting one. Definitely paused on circumcision, Jack, to talk about that. Because it's interesting because not only does circumcision you are gone, I'm just gonna keep on talking to see if you rock up. Hopefully. This is still being recorded to YouTube. I can keep on going and see if Jack's gonna re-enter the chat, but he is gone. Must be his internet is horrible. you'd think on Starlink he'd have that sorted by now. But in Genesis chapter, in Genesis chapter, where are we? It's the covenant of circumcision in chapter 17. It's not just about the covenant of circumcision of being generous. This is actually how covenants were cut. That's actually the words that were used because it was there was blood. Every covenant. Really required a both parties to to give blood, and so give blood, Jack, you've been giving blood, but to shed blood, and so we know that Jesus, when he took our sins on the cross, the shedding of blood was because this is a covenant being cut for him to cover our sins in Jesus' name. So we get to chapter 17, and you've got circumcision, which is an intimate moment. I tell you what, you're giving a part of you're giving a part of your life, you probably don't want to give. It's uncomfortable to. Give generosity is an uncomfortable moment. That's where faith meets generosity. It's not just generosity when it's easy, it's generosity when it is hard, and that really sets it apart. Do I trust God? Do I have faith in God through there? What happens, Jack, is we get to chapter 18, and Abraham. Now, with a fresh wound in a part of your body, you don't want a fresh wound. He's just trying to get some respite. He's sitting, the Bible says, in the shade of his tent at the entrance of his tent. So he's looking for shade, he's looking for breeze. He's like he's got the big spread eagle going on, just hoping for a little bit of respite for the wound that he's just got on his body. And at that point, he sees three visitors come, knowing they're angels from God. He rushes to them. Imagine how uncomfortable he was. Generosity in uncomfortable situations makes way and it shows that I got faith and it shows I've got stewardship and I he's desperate. This guy's desperate to be generous because he knows if you give seed, there's time, but then there's a harvest. He's believing for the harvest, so he's desperate to sow seeds, and so he goes to these guys gonna take care of you, gonna feed you, we're gonna wash your feet, we're gonna give you a drink, and then everything he says to them, I'll get you a little something to eat, man. They cut the choice calf. The best one they put it on the fed it. It was hey, we just get little something to drink. Hey, look, they got curds and whey. They did the whole thing. They they the whole nine yards. And then at the end you get this amazing blessing. And within 12 months, your wife is going to bear a child. There you go. The whole thing he really desperately wanted comes to pass. Why? Because he continued in discomfort, faith, stewardship, and generosity. so that's the I just I just think. that example of Abraham is exactly why he gets called the father of faith and we get to actually follow his example. Makes lots of mistakes, but the boy comes back to God and lives that life of faith. speaker-0: Yeah, it's one of the things that stands out to me through all that is, you know, his he he's known as a father in the end, right? It would like it's it's a legacy, it's the generations play and so that yeah, to be known as anything, to be known as a as a father, to have a legacy left after you go is something pretty powerful. speaker-1: Yeah, well look, that's that's y you and I are on on that journey as fathers, and you do your best, you follow God, you you you're y you wanna be a strong, godly man, you wanna be a a parent that raises your kids in the way they should go. The prom the promise of the word is you train up a child in the way that they should go. When they grow up they will not depart. And so you make the tough calls. You you get your butt and your family's butts to church. You get involved with the kingdom of God. We've got to teach the ways of God and so we Can stand on those promises, and it actually takes strong people to do that in a world that's gonna say following Christ and raising your family in a Christian way is odd, is strange, is a range of different politically incorrect notions. No, no, no. This has worked for so long, and my God backs it. You better believe I'm gonna do this. And so to be a parent is a remarkable thing, to be a leader, to be someone that others can look up to is absolutely stunning. now, Jack, I'm I'm I'm watching Mike. Kids now have kids and and working out their way, working out the way how do we how do we do it? How do we do it? I've got I've got one son that's married and they've got their second child on the way, watching them raise little boaz and go through the ups and downs and watching a son who's moved away and has got a relationship with a godly girl, the way he's doing it in the house of God and getting accountability because look, geez, there's temptation. My gosh, there's temptation, and so just doing God's way. No matter what, I'm just going to trust God. And so, and then watching my 18 year old, same again, single, and just watching him interacting with other people and how he's going to go forward and decisions he's making, key decisions about his life, and you think, you know what, all the hard things we did back when they were tiny, all the times where we said we're gonna follow God even though it's very difficult, the budget is tight, the calendar is tight, but we're gonna get our butt in the community and the church really makes a difference. You guys, Jack, you guys. You're in the middle of you're in the middle of young kids and juggling business and homeschool. There's a there's a lot there's a lot on. How do how do you how do you keep that? 'Cause you wanna you wanna pass all these things on to your kids, but man, there's a lot to juggle, there's a lot of things to be passed on. speaker-0: Yeah, I think w what I've observed sets apart a a Christian, a follower of Christ who takes the scriptures seriously and who who who lives a a life of it's a life of discipline, not just a life of token generosity, but a life of disciplined generosity. A life that practices these things ongoing, not just when it's easy or not just when it's, you know, emotional. and so whether that applies in a generosity context or in a Parenting context, we don't just do things because they're convenient or practical, but we do them because they are our practice. They are our custom. And that leads to fulfillment and fruit and all those things over time. So that's probably what we're trying to work hard on at the moment in the thick of it for us, right? Is that it's a practice, it's not just when practical. Does that make sense? speaker-1: Yeah, well look, it's the principles that you understand and outwork that are going to be able to be articulated and therefore hopefully passed on to the next generation. So it it's not just it's the practices but then understanding the values behind those. Because kids at certain age just need to know that's what we do until they ask why. I'm very happy to talk you through it, then to the point where we want them to walk in those so that no Knowing the boundary, knowing the rule, knowing the practice. And this is the same with discipline: knowing the rule, knowing the value, knowing the practice. Therefore, I need you to know why. These are based in values, through to the point we want them to walk in those values and those practices for their own. it's interesting, Jack, in in Genesis chapter 18, you've got this situation where we get all the way through. I didn't get to this on Sunday with the message, but. Verse 18 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation. All nations on earth will be blessed through him, for I have chosen him. Why? Here we go, verse 19. I have chosen him so that he will direct his children and his household. That is the reason why Abraham was chosen. We're looking for a father. We're looking for a father. We're looking for someone who will actually practice the things, know the values and the reason behind it, have faith about it, and then teach their children and their household after them to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just so that the Lord will bring about for Abraham what he has promised for him. It is the whole point of this journey of finance and generosity. Is to make sure that we battle against the spirit of mammoth. We submit that to God. We resist temptation. We repent of the times where we've been so materialistic, comparative, that we've thought, you know what, the government should be doing this for us. And forget the stewardship of hard work and the value and the ethic of working hard, of avoiding debt. All of these things actually give us so much agency to not just be a passionate. passenger in life, but to change the world, to transform it in Jesus' name. speaker-0: Yeah. And I think that's the that's the life of following Christ. If for those who are listening who would who would call yourself a good lifer, not just someone who attends good life, but that we are being that that I'm a good life earth, that we are being formed into the likeness of Christ. It is this is the life that we pursue, that we crucify our flesh, that we it's no longer I that live, but Christ who lives in me. This this is this is the life that we have chosen to follow the scriptures in totality and in sincerity. speaker-1: Yeah, look it it takes faith. Takes faith to do it. And and but I would say also the the the evidences in following Christ is fantastic. when nations do that, when nations actually follow the way of the Lord, when families do that, when cities and churches do that, you get not just revival, but you get reformation. You actually get the greatest positive change. And and so and there's great dignity and there's great family legacy that's handed on on by that. Yeah, it seems like tough as hard. speaker-0: You're in that obviously grandparent stage and you've been parenting good life long long enough for for it took bear grandchildren yourself. but it it seems to me that this these life this life of principle and of practice it compounds over time. And we probably see that in Abraham's life as well. It compounds over time. Do you wanna maybe speak to speak to that? speaker-1: Yeah, well look, there is a spiritual principle and it's it's it's listed all the way through especially through the Old Testament, but ch choose life, not death, choose blessing, not cursing, and that that has a massive impact upon the generations. It's not just for you, it's to be handed on. This is the principle of Abraham. It's there's three generations right there. There are curses, Jack, that are passed. The sins of the fathers are passed upon to the sons, to the third and the fourth generation. And I first up I want to let people know is that every curse was broken on the tree of Jesus. But sometimes, even though we've got that broken, the power for that to be broken, we still walk in the habits that we've learnt. We have to actually say, I was having a chat with someone yesterday, they were talking about different things that I inherited in my home of origin. And I'm like, it stops with me. I'm not carrying it on. I'm not carrying it on. And because it was, not just I want to follow Jesus, but it's no longer I that live. It's Christ that lives in me. If I want to follow Jesus, I gotta take up my cross. It's an instrument of death. I say no to the flesh, no to the temptation, no to the sin arc. And I have a unique sin arc, and it comes from personality and situation, it comes from home of origin stuff. And so this whole thought of what has been passed down. Generationally towards me. A range of dysfunctions from both sides of family. And I'm so glad that my parents did their best. But for me, I'm saying there's a bunch of habits that stop with me. I won't pass it on. I'm not going to take it into my marriage. Let's get that dealt with. Let's repent. Let's get those things cut off by the blood of Jesus well before I get married. Now there'll be people here that are married going, Well, what do I do with my brother? No, you can pray right now. That stops with me. The blood of Jesus breaks every single curse. He took every Every curse on the tree. And if you're thinking, Well, I've got kids, well, look, you can cut it off right now. Pray over your kids and pray. There's a spiritual world that comes to rob, kill, and destroy. And I tell you what, sometimes we give him a foothold that turns to a str stronghold, and if you let that stronghold happen for a while, it'll turn into a stranglehold, it'll choke you up. What you want to be able to do is say, Whatever foothold the enemy's got is broken by the blood of Jesus Christ. Find a pastor, find a leader, stand with you. if there if there's All sorts of spiritual activity in you the generations that have gone before you, from Freemasonry to the occult to to habit patterns and addictions. if there's if there's lust or violence, I'd just be cutting that thing off because sins of the fathers are passed down, and you can say it stops right now with me. The greatest blessing is to. watch and my kids are wrestling. All my kids are wrestling. It's not like it comes easy, but they don't have to fight the same fights that I did. That's what you want. You I want my ceiling to be the my kids' floor for them to jump from. And it is it is a stunning thing to be able to see them fight and win and not have to repeat the mistakes that I made and not have to relitigate the spiritual atmosphere around their home. They can walk in it. Now I've got to teach them not to take it for granted. They still got to be strong men who actually who actually Patrol the territory, be a be a watchman on the wall around their families' lives. But I tell you what, if you you can cut off every curse, but what you can do is then you can walk in the spiritual blessing of a legacy of generations. Beck's comes from generations of preachers, and not every preacher's brilliant, but she's got a legacy, man. She's got an absolute legacy to walk in. I appreciate and I love that, and I honor my parents-in-law and my and Beck's grandparents. I honor them for. their service and know that we're walking in the blessing, we're walking in the legacy of that. But I could have come in with my legacy and messed the whole thing up. So what you want to do is say, I'm not bringing this in. And I've got to actually change my habits, change my ways, and allow one of the greatest things is actually allow my wife to be able to go, Dave, are you following the old ways? And for me to go, you know what? She's my best friend. The wounds of a friend are faithful in that journey. You've got to face it. speaker-0: Mm. Mm. You know, it's interesting you'd you know, you talk about spiritual warfare and there's probably a couple of people I'm thinking about, a couple of types of people that I'm thinking about, those who'd say, that that all like I'm I'm up or I'm keen, but it feels a little bit strange or awkward or unusual. how would you yeah, how would you speak pastorally to that type of person who goes, I'm keen, but does I do I have to get all like rah rah swinging off the chandeliers or are there a particular go to scriptures? What does what does spiritual warfare in prayer look like? But then also in practice, like you say, it's yes, we wanna you know, we wanna wage war against those principalities and powers, but we also need to practically live out our day and and the the disciplines of this life of following Christ is warfare in itself. So how would you speak to those two types? speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, look, you're gonna find James 4:7, submit to God, resist the devil, he will flee. I'm also gonna see in James five, sixteen, it the effective fervent prayer of a righteous person avails much. So there is a process of submit to God. There is a process of resist the devil. There also is a process of what is an effective fervent prayer of a righteous. Now, righteous person means I'm covered by Jesus, I have no righteousness in myself. I want to Walk out a life of faith and righteousness with God, but I'm I'm I'm not I'm not batting a hundred here. So what I gotta do is I've got to then bring my life under the blood of Jesus Christ. So when it comes to spiritual warfare, it's more about understanding the authority of the blood of Jesus Christ. Now, the Pentecostal rah rah that you might be talking about means we do have the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit that works and abides with us. and so sometimes I'll get worked up, Jack. I don't know if you've ever seen that. Sometimes in a press Meeting, I can I can get my zip on and I'm ready to go. And I but I'm I'm I am declaring to the spirit world and I'm standing as a man of the spirit and I'm saying this goes no I'll tell you what the amount of pain that could have happened if I followed the garbage of my past and of of of of my potential heritage, it's so damaging, so damaging, Jack. And so what I'm doing is when I'm declaring, I've got to realize my prayers are a declaration, and so we're creating the image of God, and so I'm going to. Declare the Word of God as my words, knowing that God speaks the world into existence. He shaped the world with his words and we are created in his image. Life and death, the Bible says, is in the power of the tongue. And so what I want to do is I want to create life by my tongue, by my confession. It's going to happen in my prayer closet, it's going to happen in the prayer meetings, and it's going to happen in private. I've got to shut, I've got to shift the way that I speak. I've got to shift the cynicism. I've to shift the fear. I'm going to shift the confession to be of Christ. And so, what that happens, I do that, every one of those places, I've got to realize there are three spiritual audiences listening. If I submit to God, resist the devil, he will flee. If I'm the effective, fervent prayer of a righteous person avails much. If I'm declaring the word of God over my mind until it shifts to be transformed by the renewing of my mind, if I'm bringing every thought to captivity the obedience of Jesus, there are three spiritual audiences that I've got to address. Number one is the demonic. The demonic, I tell you what, they will c when Jesus faced temptation, he faced the devil himself. And and the devil comes and has a crack at him. Jesus says, even Jesus. Just quotes alt he quotes scripture from the old testament. Jesus himself, you'd probably think, gee, you didn't need to do that. It's a bit of overkill, right? Like you just think you're God, mate. You can just go for it. But even Jesus himself quoted the word of God. And so that's what I do. I quote the word of God because the demons tremble. They must bow their knee. Effective fervent prayer of the righteous person avails much. I submit to God, resist the devil, he will flee. I'm speaking that word until it happens. They will go. They must go. There is no option. And if it comes back, I declare it until it goes. I keep on declaring and stay vigilant on that. And so that's the first audience that we've got to understand. The demons tremble. And so the other one I've got to realize is there's the angelic. I get to release angels to minister. I get to I declare the power of God. I declare the word of God. I declare the will and the purposes of God until I start to see heaven shift and the angels working on. See the power of God working in a situation. The third I've got to realize is. When I declare it's me, every time I declare my words shape my world, it shapes my soul, my mind, will, and emotions. And so every time I say that, every time I'm battling in my mind, I just declare the word of God until it overrides my natural tendencies. Because it's no longer I that live. I want to live in a way that says to every every thought, every feeling from my evil other self. I've got an imposter that needs to die. I'm gonna submit to God, resist the devil, so he will flee. But sometimes the greatest enemy is inside of me. It's my evil other self, my flesh nature that wants to be lazy, give up, react, reject, get angry, get lustful. I mean entitlement comes from that area as well. Offenses, that's where that comes from. I I'm triggered is that area of my flesh. I'm I'm not I'm not triggered, Jack. I'm a big boy. I've got a control of my own emotions. And so I'm gonna I'm gonna declare the word of God until I'm no longer triggered, until I've changed my nature. And so that actually is the journey of a spiritual warfare. So if you're Pentecostal and have a charismatic expression, sometimes it comes out seemingly chandelier swinging. But if if there's no there's no need for chandelier swinging and so what I what I want to do is I want to declare the word of God until it speaker-0: Yeah. We want to declare the word of God until it comes to pass. I love it. I love it. I love it. And yeah, there are times there are times when it when it is shared listening and that's a good thing. And there are times where it is a a quiet moment in in your car and it is declaring the word of God and submitting your life to the blood of Jesus Christ. And that is that is spiritual warfare. And th then practically, like for us, it's making sure that we bring our tithe every time We are paid, we bring a tithe first, we practice our generosity week in, week out, so that the spirit of mammon has no room for a foothold in our world. That is just as much warfare taking the the principles of the scripture seriously as it is praying the principles principles of the scripture. that that's a super important practice for us and has formed us, has formed us over time. You you rub off those rough edges of the flesh. So we will always have that flesh nature. We never w n never will be sinless. we want to be formed more into the likeness of Christ over time. speaker-1: Yeah, look, Jack, can I can I ask of you, because you're you're a businessman, you don't have like wage like a regular wage coming in, as it would be my understanding of situation. How do you work out your tithe and your offering? I'm sure I'm sure it's irregular. speaker-0: Yeah, well we so so I am paid a salary and I receive profits from the business as well. So we we tithe on everything that we receive personally. That's the the the the principles of the law were set up for individuals, right? That that we would bring our first fruits to God, that we would bring the first tenth of everything that we own and earn. And so whenever we receive, we bring a first fruits offering. We bring our tithe personally. speaker-1: So now what we talked about on Sunday was that the tithe is non-discretionary. I give it to the storehouse. Now, in this conversation, there's both the chairman and the treasurer of the Good Life Committee of Management. But the practice that we both have is we bring it as an offering without question. Then when we look as both chairman and treasurer with other people, obviously sometimes it's management staff and sometimes it's members of the committee management in the way that we as a team want to best steward all of those resources, but they are kept completely separate. Is that how you see it, Jack? speaker-0: Yes, so I'm a steward of my personal home and my finance and my resource and my responsibility of stewardship is to bring my tithe. So we practice that as a family. And then I take off my yellow hat and put on my good life hat. And I then have a responsibility to steward the finances of good life in the way that God has called you and and secondly us. And so they they're two very different steward ro stewardship roles. And I treat them as such. I I often will joke, like when I bring my tithe, I do not care how it is spent, quote unquote, because my responsibility is to bring my tithe and bring my offering. That is my duty. And I I do so willingly and joyfully and cheerfully. So I don't care how it's spent personally. But when I am in my role and function of treasurer or part of the the DLT here at Good Life, I absolutely care where every single cent goes. Because we have to answer for that. And so I I care n not an iota personally and I care about every cent in my good life function. speaker-1: Right. Now I think we've got a a a fairly good track record at at good life. I mean, there's been times we've faced financial difficulty, but never because someone's done the wrong thing, as far as I know. and I'm I'm certainly an open book on those sorts of things. I yeah, I mean correct me if you think I'm wrong in that kind of situation, but w what about people that have come from situations where they don't trust because maybe things have not happened the way that they thought, or maybe th they it should have happened. So sometimes financial decisions are a dis decisions of style or priority or method, which you can disagree with, but sometimes there's churches that have done the wrong thing. Sometimes people are a bit reticent, maybe hesitant to actually give because something happened in a previous space. Can you speak to that? speaker-0: I think well when we give we give to God. We don't give to man or we don't give to a an individual or a an organization. We give to God and so I I realize that if that has been abused or misused or misappropriated, that would be a tough pill to swallow. But we need to hold lightly to these things. We we wanna we wanna bring our offering, bring our tithe, and we bring it to God and it goes through the work of the local church, but we tithe to God first and foremost. And so we don't want to skip by that. that that is the totality of the scriptures, right? That we would bring our offering to God. We would bring it cheerfully, not under compulsion, and that we would practice that as as was, you know, demanded before the law, in the law, and then and then you know, Jesus reinforced in through the New Script New Testament. So if if you're struggling with trust with the the the the organization, I'd say schedule a meeting, like have a coffee. And, we, I'll say we as the committee of of good life are n are not your previous church or your previous pastors. So it would be unfair to to hold us or to hold judgment against us for the indiscretions of someone else. That seems pretty unreasonable. So sit down and and we're all very open and transparent as to what's happened previously and what will happen and and the principles that we apply how we steward God's resource and and many of those are yeah, I'll say stylistic. choices that there's no there's not right or wrong. There's many ways to be right with how we choose to build church. As long as it meets the principles of scripture, then then the rest is up up for up for for our discretion. So sit down, ask questions. But but primarily make sure you give to God first and release it and trust him. He is our provider. We you are you as an individual are not responsible for how your church spends its money. You are responsible to the scriptures and to be faithful to bring the tithe. End of story. speaker-1: Jack, there's a couple of things I want to make sure we get to. I want to talk about what happens, how does someone tithe when their spouse is unsaved and there's disagreement? Or what about how do you actually work your finances with in regards to generosity when you do have a a a spouse who's saved but yet you're in disagreement. Then I wanna make sure we cover like the building project report that I brought on Sunday. Sure. But here's my question to you, is that along along the journey, you've been a part of the church. I mean I've been here for eighteen years, it's been going for forty something in totality. You've been here for sixteen, seventeen of those. speaker-0: Sixteen, seven eight, seven eight? speaker-1: Yeah, somewhere there. we're not the same, we don't operate the same as we used to. We've grown and we've adapted and we've learned. There's been some tough lessons and then there's just been some you continually grow, right? And so that journey of growth, you've you've probably had a quite a good snapshot to that. You've been a part of the team. can you speak to if people have questions, how that adds to the journey of us growing and learning together and hopefully the organization becoming better? speaker-0: Yeah, I think w we everyone has something to offer, right? And so we we don't want to be demanding or yeah, we don't want to be demanding, but we can certainly add a perspective and something unique when it comes from a place of humility and and submission. So, you know, I think one of the principles that I've always tried to operate by is assuming that there's context that I'm unaware of, which is all almost always proved true. And so if you can come to a you know, if if you've got questions, by all means, schedule the meeting. And and come to come with an open, curious mind to ask questions and seek to understand. And the reality is if if you come with that perspective, you'll probably leave on the same page, you go, I never realized. That makes perfect sense. What seemed a little bit strange to me initially, now I completely understand how you got there. So I think having that perspective, I think knowing that there's a times and seasons Through church life. There are times when we do we really want to push forward and take ground, and there are times where we just need to consolidate. You know, it can't be summer and spring all the time. There are seasons where it is winter and and and autumn. And so we have to be cognizant of the seasons, cognizant of the big picture. You know, think the great Dr. Ian Jagleman, who recently passed away, Dave. I don't know if you I think two weeks ago passed away. wonderful book he wrote about leadership. But that I he said great leaders have the ability to understand complexity and see in long time horizons. And so I'd say in this scenario, if if we're talking about finance, the ability to understand that it is a complex beast. It's not just, can we not just throw 95% at like missions programs? Mmm, not quite. There's a little bit more complexity than just every dollar going to to missions and ministries. So understanding complexity. And thinking in long time horizons. We I think you might have s said it in a in a reel yesterday. A a building is just a a tool, but we must invest in buildings because it creates room and space for for the next generation and for for people down the line to be able to to worship and encounter the presence of God. So come with an open, curious mind, seek to understand, consider all of the complexities. and think in a long time horizon, both forwards and backwards. understanding history where we've been and the context of where we're going will will help you be in a better place to understand how we're handling finance as a church. speaker-1: Look, I think where there's health in the way that we handle health and openness in the way that we handle finances, I certainly am open to those that are members, tithing members, to be able to look into and talk to. It'd be r very weird if you were worried about where the tides are going and you're not a contributor. I think that'd be odd. I think it'd be odd if you were on the committee management or in leadership and you weren't both tithing and generous. And so what we wanna do is th that whole thought that you're saying, come with the attitude. What it means then is that it gives room to be able to understand the context and understand the situation. and and and realize gee they're just people that are doing their best, right? No, no one's perfect. There's a lot of room in the scriptures in how to how to do church or how to prioritize those sorts of things and people are just adapting the situations or certain certain sometimes just people, certain people on the team are under pressure. And so we're not going to throw people under the bus that way. so that also means that if you come that way, well then it's more of an opportunity if we do have blind spots as a team as the leadership and the community management have blind spots. To be able to think that was really well. Like, do you mean I don't have any barriers to hearing what I need to hear because the person came with humility you're speaking about, Jack. So that's a really important way to do it. And I would suggest, what a great, what a great way if our marriages worked that way as well. We didn't come at each other, but just came with a hey, can you help me understand this? I'd love to help and I'd love to be a part of the answer. And that person knows you're a generous contributing person, on the way it gives room for that. I suppose the the the one I do want to tackle before we cover the that you know the Building report, and we'll cover that in the last two things as we land the plane here today. Situation in finances. I there's a a wonderful man in my my my Connect group. I run the men's prayer meeting and Bible study on a Thursday morning. It's a wonderful old saint who has an unsaved spouse. And so we did talk about well, how do you tithe on your increase when your spouse is gonna hit the roof if you do that? And and and look, my whole thought is you tithe on your increase if there's not agreement with your spouse then your household income is not actually your increase it's your home's increase and you don't have agreement but what you do have is if you have pocket money I mean I have pocket money every week how much comes in that I could spend and so of that I give of my tithes and my offerings now what I can do is if I have an unsaved spouse I can present a cause and say I think this cause is great you know me I'd love to give 10% and more and but this I mean I do that for my own but I'd love it if we could consider This cause. And oftentimes an unsaved spouse can be generous into areas of offering and actually negotiate that with the spouse. But the tithe, I know a lot of unsaved spouses that would not give a dime to the church in a pink fit. And so you tithe, certainly that individual, the saved individual in the couple, can tithe off their own personal increase and then negotiate in regards to offerings outside of that. Does that sound good to you, Jake? speaker-0: Yeah, I think that's that's pretty reasonable. It's obviously a very complex situation, but it you know, we we want to make sure we have a generous heart. You know, so often the the New Testament supersedes some of the the laws in the Old Testament from a place of heart. And so what you just described for mine, summarizes the intent of the scripture that we would had a have a heart that says we are not given to the spirit of mammon, that everything that we have first that came from God and and we return back to him what we can of what is his. speaker-1: Love it. next one is Jack, if I've got I've got a couple, they want to give an offering. It's it's heart for the house season. One is saying I feel I wanna give ten thousand dollars, the other one says I wanna give five thousand dollars. What do you suggest? speaker-0: well i in my treasurer function, you should absolutely give the ten thousand. No, no, no, no. No. No, I I think d to well, let's play out, right? You give the ten K and someone feels very generous and someone feels like they've been held over a barrel and they're they're d distraught and and they're they're frustrated and they haven't been heard and so that creates disunity in a marriage. So that is an offering that creates disunity. That does not sound to me like the speaker-1: No dice. No dice that unity at all costs. Okay, so what what do you do? Five and ten. speaker-0: Well, in that case, five but both parties are in agreement at five. At least five. You know, someone's capped out at five and someone can go more, but we we're both in agreement at five. So it makes perfect sense that we're in unity and agreement for five and so we give five cheerfully, without compulsion. speaker-1: What I've found as I walk through with couples through this, it's been different times that Bex and I have had different numbers and and we just said, hey, look, well, we agree on the lower number and a lot, a lot of prayer and yeah, we're juggling different seasons of life, but yet we want to give this. And we'll say, well, what we can do is we can give this and then say, let's go on a faith journey and trust God for the rest. So over the it's a it's a twelve month offering. God by the end of twelve months, wouldn't it be awesome? God and we're believing. And so when when when extra income that you didn't see coming, hey, how much of that can we give to how much of that can we contribute into that offering? speaker-0: Yeah. I think that makes sense. And I'd say to the person who was believing for 10 and they go, it doesn't it's not really a faith stretch for the five. So well, you you want to attach your faith to the faith of your spouse and and come alongside them. And if it's if it's a stretch for them, it's a stretch for you. You know, so it's it can still be a journey of faith, though it wasn't the the big biggest amount in your heart. speaker-1: Jack, I don't know what's going on with the internet today. We're doing so well at bumping ins in and out of this. It's your internet, it's mine. Anyway, and the last thing is the the building report. We have done a journey of thinking, let's be, let's, let's, let's utilize this asset. Can we find somewhere that's larger, more prominent? We can we can achieve a whole bunch of dreams. And then what happened is it decided to be about internet connection. So what we're looking at doing let's see if this works. What's this? So we've gone on the journey. We end up looking at we were told we could possibly make a lot of resource for the future if we actually developed the property and looked at residential. we we ended up then look the biggest issue was the undermining. We've come back with the geo geotech reports, and it's really it's really just not doable. it's what's doable if you have endless millions of dollars to shove down a hole, which we currently don't. So what we're doing is we've come full circle to go, how do we actually Developed this site to be the greatest resource to reach our city to make disciples and as a sending site so we can actually train people to change the world. And so we are now in a process of looking at how do we actually build the Church of Our Dreams on this current site. And so we got to that on Sunday. People can look at the YouTube channel to check out the way that I presented that. In the short term, though, we've just got to make room, Jack. We just have to make room. So in November, there'll be a lot of renovations. The ladies' toilets. gets a renovation and all the ladies said amen to that. I've heard that little that little chestnut for a while now and they're happy to do that. and so that'll be a that'll be a month long. We get to the 16th of November and there'll be a full church wide week long renovation. We have to actually deal with storage. Not sexy but we just gotta do it. We've got to deal with all the things in storage. We're gonna sell keep Chuck so many different things, sort out story solutions and work out from there. From the sixteenth. speaker-0: There you go. So we're making room in the short term, sprucing the place up and over time we'll turn it into more and more of a hub to reach more people, more families, more kids. speaker-1: Exactly. So that's a bit of a process from that point. We've done a process. We've done a journey of faith, and the journey of faith just continues. And the two things that are common to Good Life Church is the generosity of good lifers and the providence of our remarkable God. All I know is that the generosity of good lifers really does need to be preempted by those principles of scripture of faith and stewardship. Because if you live like no one else, you can live and give like no one else, and you'll be a part of literally changing the world, not just in your life. speaker-0: So good. So good. Well, folks, you can head over to the main good life channel to to catch that Sunday message. Otherwise, hopefully we can welcome Rebecca back, Dave. speaker-1: look that'd be nice if she wants to grace us with her presence. speaker-0: Maybe next episode. All right. Thank you, Pastor Dave. See you next time. speaker-1: Cheers.