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Uncle Headless' Magical Mailbag-Caput Draconis/Hex and more · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: You see something's going to happen.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: What what's gonna happen? I'll take what.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: Welcome to another episode of the Headless is Magical mail Bag.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: I got with me tonight, my co host Nick, and
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: we are going over some sigils.
• 0:35
  Speaker 4: Yes, so let's uh let's start with you. Nick, go
• 0:39
  Speaker 4: ahead right, yes?
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Uh sorry, I'm trying to six there we go. I
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: forgot to set up the rumbles. I was like, oh,
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: it's not working. Uh yeah, all right, so uh yes,
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: real quick, we have the uh what is this one? Yeah?
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: The caput a dragons Latin head of the dragon. It
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: is a glypt for ending the north lunar node, an
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: idea that traveled from Babylonian astronomy through Greek, Arabic and
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: medieval Europe. Visually, it looks like an upward facing horseshoe
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: or kind of like that ome and I'll show you
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: later shaped loop Renaissance magic. Its outline is often doubled
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: or ringed to make a talisman seal. Astronomical and mythic
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: origins the node and eclipses. The ascending node marks the
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: point where the moon crosses above the ecliptic and above
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: the ecliptic and eclipses happen when sun or moon are
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: near the dragon. Mythology, Greek texts call it oh God
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: this word, and a bibizon I said that right the
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: rising point. In Indian astrology, person personifies it at the
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: severed demon head Rahu forever devouring the luminaries. And these
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: stories gave the node its dragon imagery and its reputation
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  Speaker 2: for both appetite and augmentation. The first appearances in magical literature.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: It shows up in the tenth century under d Imaginabus.
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  Speaker 2: It's an image or a magic manual carved the head
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: of a composite talisman while the node is on the
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  Speaker 2: ascendant to give authority to it. Eleventh or twelfth century
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: it shows up in the Pika Trix, and the head
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: augments any planet it contacts. It's recipes for north Node
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: talismans to make your magic more powerful. The thirteenth century,
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: it shows up in Guido Banati's Astronomia, and it's drawn
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: as a dragon biting its tail, and it governs beginnings
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: in our orary charts and that you can see in
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: some ms illustrations like manuscripts in the Renaissance times around
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: you start getting up to Agrippa, you see him using it.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: He prints a sigil of Caputraconus besides that of Cadua
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Draconis and the twenty eight lunar mansions. He recommends it
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  Speaker 2: for great success impetitions when conjoined with Jupiter. In geomancy,
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  Speaker 2: Agrippa's Book four turns the node into one of the
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  Speaker 2: sixteen Geomantic figures. In this form, it resembles a step
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  Speaker 2: towards a threshold and is fortunate for entering ventures. Peter
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  Speaker 2: Apaine it graved at the dragon's head on the volvulus
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: of the Astranamachum god these words casarium from fifteen forty
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  Speaker 2: and he's linking it to eclipse tables. Well, that interesting.
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  Speaker 2: Around the sixteen hundreds people who practiced it or known
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: William Lilly sixteen forty seven. He's under Christiana's astrology. He
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  Speaker 2: treats the node as a minor benefit that signifies increase
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: and friends when well placed. The Hermetic Order of the
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Golden Down started using it around the eighteen nineties for
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  Speaker 2: knowledge lectures, and it uses the geomantic figure and it
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  Speaker 2: teaches it as good, and it teaches that the symbol
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  Speaker 2: is good with good, evil with evil, and lucky for
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  Speaker 2: gain and Alista. Crowley used it in ritual geomancy and
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  Speaker 2: some of his Pnocchian visions, and he assigns the figure
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  Speaker 2: to Venus and Jupiter and places its sigils. It places
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  Speaker 2: its sigil and pentagrams for money or love workings, the
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  Speaker 2: symbol and the magical uses you know again just to
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  Speaker 2: go over some other you know, for augmentation and gateways.
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  Speaker 2: Traditional manuals say the head amplifies whatever it touches, hence
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  Speaker 2: talismans for promotion, growth or initiating projects. The Pika trix
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  Speaker 2: warns that the same magnifier will boost malafix, so you're
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  Speaker 2: bad if they roll the chart geomantic divination falling in
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  Speaker 2: the ascendant, it blesses any new undertaking. In the tenth
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  Speaker 2: it promises professional success, and in the twelfth it is
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  Speaker 2: neutral or not very good. Golden doors when tables expand
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  Speaker 2: these house judgments a little bit more if people are
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  Speaker 2: into that and astro magical things favorable When Jupiter, Venus
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  Speaker 2: or waxing moons can join the node outside eclipse season,
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  Speaker 2: and it's avoided during eclipses because the dragon devours light.
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  Speaker 4: There you go, so, well, that is really interesting. I
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  Speaker 4: mean on so many level.
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  Speaker 3: Even that figure right there where you've got the moon,
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  Speaker 3: if you want to go back.
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  Speaker 2: On, Yeah, I do like that associated with the eclipses.
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  Speaker 4: Staring at the sun.
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  Speaker 3: And what I've noticed is when I'm driving at dawn,
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  Speaker 3: the moon, Venus, and the Sun will all align in
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  Speaker 3: sort of a you know, a straight line across the sky.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, sun is rising, and so what do we see
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  Speaker 3: here that same idea. I guess there's Venus in the
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  Speaker 3: middle somewhere, which would make sense. And then that's sort
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: of the node. I'm not sure what you mean by node.
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  Speaker 3: Is there like a placement in the sky.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I would assume that. I am gonna
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: be totally honest with you. I'm not really good with
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: those that part of astrology. Ya, but nodes are normally,
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: like I think, they're actually stuff in the sky. I
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: could before.
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  Speaker 3: Interesting, Well you would go to the next one.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, oops, wait hold on, yeah, this one likes cool.
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  Speaker 4: Oh tried to acto is it?
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: Oh inside the egg? Yeah, it's a beast inside.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean that's what he would he would claim,
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  Speaker 3: a beast inside the egg and it's serpentine.
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  Speaker 4: Oh that's triacto.
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  Speaker 3: Whoa, and this.
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  Speaker 4: Is all about that node. Huh. Yeah, that's awesome. So
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  Speaker 4: that's like Katoo and Rahu, the two dragons.
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  Speaker 3: I thought that only existed in Vedic, but I guess
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  Speaker 3: Caput draconas.
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  Speaker 4: And then what was the other one or something?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, there was one op yeah, what was it?
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: It was another one that went one da yeah that yes.
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, because I got the geomantic figure right here.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: If you want to hear about it, yeah, yeah, go
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: for it.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: Catput Draconas is a geomantic figure that represents the head
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  Speaker 3: of the dragon. In Latin, it is associated with the
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  Speaker 3: north node of the moon. I guess that's the highest
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: level of the moon's ascendancy, and is considered a figure
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  Speaker 3: of new beginnings, fresh starts, and personal growth. The figure
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: is often linked to the concept of an entrance or doorway,
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  Speaker 3: symbolizing the start of a journey a new cycle. In
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: terms of elemental influence, Capput Draconas has earth, water, and
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  Speaker 3: air active, while fire is passive. This combination suggests a
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  Speaker 3: influence with the intuitive and rational elements, striving towards spiritual energy.
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  Speaker 3: The figure is generally seen as a favorable for any
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  Speaker 3: kind of beginnings, indicating a drastic turn for the better
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  Speaker 3: and new possibilities to explore. Capa Draconis is also associated
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  Speaker 3: with the idea of integration the spirit and the future,
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  Speaker 3: as well as the opportunities that lie ahead. It is
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  Speaker 3: connected to the zodiac sign Virgo and the element of Earth,
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  Speaker 3: and is often seen as a figure that brings benedictions, prosperity,
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: and spiritual development and geomantic readings. Capa draconas can indicate
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  Speaker 3: a period of change which may be slow moving but
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  Speaker 3: ultimately positive. It is often linked to anxiety or unrest
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: and appears doing significant life changes, but it also seen
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  Speaker 3: as the potential positive outcomes. And so here's the sigil
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  Speaker 3: for the geomancy.
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: Head of the Dragon.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks like even like a snake tone. Oh
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: that's you know, you even make that sign for like
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: the rising beast right and the LVX. Would I think.
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  Speaker 4: There's a lot of geomancy in magic.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I just don't understand this shit.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: Oh it's it's real simple. Basically, you're just poking holes
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  Speaker 3: or whatever, and then you're counting the whether it's going
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  Speaker 3: to be a positive number. Well, not a positive number,
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  Speaker 3: even number or an odd number, and so you're flipping
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  Speaker 3: coins whatever, you're creating a scenario where you can determine
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  Speaker 3: what the number is going to be either you know,
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  Speaker 3: even or odd. Odd is two dots, even as one dot.
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  Speaker 3: So you fill out one, two, three, four, five flips
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  Speaker 3: of the coin or whatever, and then you have your
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  Speaker 3: geomantic figure, and so that's related to you know, reading
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  Speaker 3: your fortune, or you can put these up and use them.
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  Speaker 4: As sort of sigils.
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  Speaker 3: So there's a lot of different kind of potential when
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  Speaker 3: it comes to but it's basically like the Ruins, you know.
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  Speaker 2: I was actually kind of almost like thinking something like
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  Speaker 2: that with the way you're explaining where you can make
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  Speaker 2: a run out of it.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: And what they do is they have big old squares
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  Speaker 3: that have basically like this story all all laid out,
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  Speaker 3: and so basically as you're flipping through, each one of
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: these different levels have a different energy and then that
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  Speaker 3: gives you your full reading. So you could fill out
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  Speaker 3: a whole piece of paper on this. It's actually pretty complex, but.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, jee Mancy is something to look into, and it's
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  Speaker 4: so simple. It's a lot like eaching. If you haven't
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: read that.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, no, I it's well, I mean it
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: almost even well not so much looks like it, but
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: that was something I kind of thought of when I
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: saw that with the change, how you use like dots
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  Speaker 2: and placements and all that stuff.
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  Speaker 3: Right, it's not the same figures. And in both systems
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  Speaker 3: they believe that the spirit comes through these geometric figures,
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  Speaker 3: you know.
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  Speaker 4: I think that's also common in reading the rooms too,
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  Speaker 4: is like there's.
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  Speaker 3: A spirit to each one of these these figures that
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  Speaker 3: they've drawn, you know, ZI too.
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  Speaker 2: Very cool. Yeah, no, thank you for adding that on too.
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  Speaker 4: So I got right here.
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  Speaker 1: Hex signs Pennsylvania Dutch hex signs, so uh, these consist
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  Speaker 1: of all sorts of different you know, motifs that are
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  Speaker 1: are based around this radiant kind of energy.
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  Speaker 2: You know.
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  Speaker 4: So originally they were.
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  Speaker 3: Called like uh, flower and flower and star pattern in German,
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  Speaker 3: but then they decided that a hex's foot or a
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  Speaker 3: witch's foot is what they were gonna go with instead.
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  Speaker 3: So that's what it's been called since the early nineteen hundreds.
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  Speaker 3: And this is associated with the Pennsylvania Dutch, not the Amish.
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  Speaker 3: They want everybody to know this is not Amish. We
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  Speaker 3: don't believe in this kind of fancy decorativeness. So when
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  Speaker 3: you see these up on barns, that's a pretty good
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  Speaker 3: indicator that it's not the Amish, because they don't even
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  Speaker 3: wear buttons, right, because buttons are too flashy for the Amish.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Flashy for the homage. So what are those other ones?
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: I forgot there's a different name of Mennonite. So the
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: mena Nights Menaite school.
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  Speaker 3: With this very very humble as well, I think.
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  Speaker 2: But they have buttons, they have zippers.
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  Speaker 3: Right, they do have zippers, and they have cars as well.
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  Speaker 3: So Mennonites are the ones that are going to be
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: dressing a lot like the Amish, but still driving in cars.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: But you know, the Amish.
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: Mafia kind of works that way.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: You think they're not working together, but they're always working together.
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  Speaker 2: Yo, there was, Oh god, I was. I think I
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: was in my twenties. I just got out of high school.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: And I remember one time I saw some shit on
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: TV where the Amage got busted trafficking cocaine for the
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Hills Angels or some shit, because like, you never would
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: have guessed that we had cocaine on it's really Amish.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: They got popped. I was like, Yo, they're running drugs
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: from whatcycle game? You know, there's a horsed buggy in
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: the back.
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  Speaker 3: We had a guy in Grabile. I've actually lived around
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: the Amish a lot. I used to live in Grabel, Indiana.
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  Speaker 3: It was not a one horse town. So you better
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: watch your step.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: They're lots of them, and so, yo, you gotta watch
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: out for that shit.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: Literally, we had one guy who put neons on the
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: bottom of his buggy and he would go around getting
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: drunk because apparently you can drink and drive a horse.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: Nobody cares. So he's in there getting loaded, trying to
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: pick up the English, you know. So he's yelling at
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: the women with his uh ne odds at the bottom
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: of his uh his buggy.
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: And he thought he was hot.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Shit. Well, if guy who's gonna put hydraulics in that git.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: Next wouldn't be.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: I'm done sorry.
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: Rural Indiana was a wild place, dude, wild.
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: They had all sorts of crazy stuff going on.
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: But uh yeah, So you can find these on these barns,
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: and it's it's been associated with magic, and there is
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: definitely a lot of superstition associated with these hex signs,
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: like which one is fortuitous and which one is not.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: We have a lot of these type of decorations out
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: here in Wisconsin as well.
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: They they put them all over the barns, mostly you know,
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: on the front of the barn. But the whole idea
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: there is that this this sigil is supposed to be
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: raising the energy of the farm. And I think it
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: probably goes way back before this, but it really started
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: picking up in the United States through the Pennsylvania Dutch
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: in the eighteen fifties. But you know, that was sort
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: of like the height of the folk magic movement, and
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: then from there it kind of moved way back into
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: you know, the tent revival scene in America.
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: That was a.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: Pretty big step back, you know, in terms of culturally.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: Everything got banned and bright colors were banned. You know,
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: they tried to be like the Amish.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I guess it's interesting. I wonder if like those doors
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: in a certain amount, like on two. It's interesting, like
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: if there's like even if those things you see, like
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: the doorways in the arches and wonderful that has something
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: to do with like everything, because it's eight on the top.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, it could just be eight.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: You know, it does the they were into They were
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: into folk magic big time.
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: So the numbers of things.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: How many, you know, all all of those things had
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: a superstitious quality.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: This is a pretty well looking actually interesting.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: They were always looking out for thirteens and all the
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: rest of this stuff. Which is really interesting to me is,
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: you know, the whole trisc and decaphobia thing is so
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: common in everyday people. But yet if you look at Washington,
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: d C. They have absolutely no trisc and decaphobia at all.
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: They are not scared at thirteen. They love that number.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: Everything is thirteen, thirteen stripes, thirteen bars, thirteen arrows. You know,
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: it's all their symbolism. But you know, the whole phobia
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: around numbers, that's definitely you know, mid nineteenth century fear,
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: you know. But that's mine.
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: Let me pull up the old mail bag here.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's so funny. I think I just
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: noticed because I saw like a thing pop up on
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: uh Twitter for some reason. I'm thinking I shared the show,
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: so I thought maybe it was like a retweet or
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: like or whatever, And it was that lady Heather that
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: we just had on the show, taking so many screens
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: out of how far away the funeral home is from
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: the lodges by our house. She's like, Yo, you got
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: me on a deep type. Now. I was like, I'm
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: telling you there's something weird with that shit.
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah dude, I mean come on.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Yo, it's too weird. It's like they're literally needed next
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: door or two blocks away. You could walk to it.
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: This is something if you don't know what you're looking for. Yo.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: There was ones where they had the same name as
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: the lodge name.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: Well, here's here's the plausible deniability. During the early nineteen hundreds,
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: all of these lodges got started around death benefits, right,
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: so you would get your life insurance through the law.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this all makes sense now, started, that's all part.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: Of that started with life assurance.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: But then, oh, we gotta come with death, you know.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: Now it goes into human trafficking.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna rape you to stay healthy, and when
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: you die, we're gonna judge you too much. Oh you
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: want you want to get cremated? Five grand? Thanks? It's
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: like I'll just throw the guy and that stole myself.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Just give me and give me a coffee can for
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: a thousands.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: I can't, for the life of me ever find any
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: new cemeteries.
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: Where are these bodies go?
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: No, you're right. If you're probably look like you know
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: cemeteries that have been built like recently, there's probably.
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: Very few, very few. We got people dying all the time.
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: What's happening here?
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: Are they all getting cremated?
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: I don't think they are.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: Something is going making up with the lack of cows.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, we do eat a lot of burgers people.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: I could have swore. I saw somebody recent only actually
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: look into all that and said the numbers actually don't
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: match to produce as much as beings taken in supposedly.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, that's you know. But then they're
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: starting to say we do get some from China. I
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: don't know, you start trying to use other countries as suppliers,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: and it's just are you saying that just because you
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: don't want to believe what you might be eating?
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: Right, I don't know. I don't like that.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, fucking weird.
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: And have me notice too.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: That nobody is getting the big ostentatious headstones anymore.
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: No, No, it's all just like little plaques in the ground.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah that's it's like, yo, come on, so boring.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: Right, But nobody can afford those big monuments anymore because
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: inflation has made us all super poored. We don't even
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: realize it yet.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: You know, it's expensive to die die, or it is
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: for the family that you left.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: And it's ridiculous stuff to like they'll charge you five
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: hundred and fifty dollars for a car hard or box.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: It's like what I've known so many people that you know,
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: unfortunately people die in their family or whatever, and they
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: didn't have much, and it's like, yo, I just got
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: stuck with like a ten grand bill to bury somebody,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: right like, and it's just like, how the fun does
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: it cost that much to like put somebody in the ground.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: That's why those lodges got started, is because it was
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: always expensive to bury people, and people were poor, so
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: they decided to get together and split the bells. That's uh,
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: you know, it's one of those things.
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: Again. Moosehart.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: Moosehart was for the orphans of the the members who died.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Mooseheart, Illinois is owned by the Moose Ladne.
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: Right the entire town. These are dual purpose you know,
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: all right.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: So I got one hereah, So it says the mall
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: theme seems to be subjective. Sometimes it's a mall, or
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: what looks like an abandoned office space. Sometimes it's a
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: golden castle that goes on forever. Most recently it was
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: a multi story arcade looking place. In these dreams, I'm
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: always aware that I'm dreaming and that I'm lost. I'll
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: keep walking through doors, even though each time I open
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: a door it's a different room. Even if I turn
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: around and go back to the door I just came
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: out of, the room will look different than it did previously.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: Eventually you have to pass something that looks familiar and
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: have a brief moment of relief, just to turn the
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: corner and not recognize anything again.
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: Again.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: I'm aware that I'm dreaming, and I'm just looking for
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: the exit. When I finally find my way out, that's
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: the point at which I wake up. Every time. I
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: don't know what it means. The theme change, but it's
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: the same story every time. Sometimes there's a woman. She
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: doesn't speak, she just seems to be observing. Would love
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: it if you did a sessh covering this topic.
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: Sarah M. Smith, what do you think of that?
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: It's pretty buked out? I mean, I've had not more situations,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: but there's been times where I've been in places having
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: weird dreams and like you're getting out of a situation,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: as soon as you go to leave, it ends like
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: a fuck that is uh, I don't know.
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: This dream kind of reminds me of one of my
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: favorite books, The House of Leaves by Daniel Lee.
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: Well, in that book, it's a book about a documentary
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: that never existed, also being scribbled in by a guy
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: who was who was blind, I guess, and also being
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: you know, read to you by a person who's keeping
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: a journal about the strange effects of him reading through
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: this documentary about something that didn't exist. Well, in the documentary,
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: you've got this guy who's exploring his own house and
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: he's determined that the house is actually bigger.
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: On the inside than it is on the outside.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: He can't figure out why that is, and he starts
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: measuring everything to make sure that the walls aren't moving,
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: and he finds a portal inside of his house, and
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: inside this portal is an almost never ending hallway, and
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: he starts exploring this portal with his camera. But obviously
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: it was a movie that never existed. And as he's
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: doing that, the other character who's reading about this story
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: is also having strange effects in his own apartment, having
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: to do with the spatial relationship between these different walls
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: and things.
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: Everybody's freaking out because all the dimensions are changing every
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: time they turn around.
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: It's like being stuck in one of these wall troops.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: You know. It almost kind of even reminded me of
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: and like something you just said now too, it's almost
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: like a fucked up scenario of inception, like maybe yeah,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: or it's just like, you know, everything's changing, like the
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: whoever created the de matrix that you're in is like
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: fucking just changing everything coming at you whatever. You basically
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: snap out of their fucking control and we call me
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know. So there's this weird I was getting,
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: like from what you said to.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: All of these videos on YouTube are talking about like liminality.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: So they have these places like this mall dream and
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: they call it a liminal space, and so basically it's
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: just having these videos of walking through creepy abandoned office
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: buildings or abandoned malls and like something pops out at
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: you or there's like a character, you know, looking at you.
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: But these are very common all over YouTube.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: And it's it's strange that it would it would mirror
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: that so specifically, if not for maybe this being a
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: powerful meme in the ether for some reason. They call
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: them the back rooms, and so in these back rooms,
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: you know, you've got different levels that you're passing through.
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: One could be a mall, one could be an office building,
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: but you've got to find your way to the exit.
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: And also so weird things are happening around you that
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: are eerie and whatnot. But the whole back room's phenomena
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: sounds very particular to this sort of abandoned mall thing,
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: and it's strange that it shows up in people's dreams,
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: you know, Like I don't know if Sarah's ever heard
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: of these, uh.
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: You know, liminal space videos, but holy fuck, is that
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: on balls?
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: You know? It started what's happen? It started out on
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: these open platform video games, like you know, what's.
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: It called I Forgot?
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: But you've got a bunch of these different ones where
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: people can create their own, like fag games based off
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: of these concepts.
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: Creep.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: There's a word for that. I can't remember what it is.
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: Roadblocks.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: You can do it on roadblocks, but basically roadblocks starts
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: these trends with these creepy things that kids are into,
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: so they end up transferring over to YouTube and then
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: going back and forth between roadblocks and YouTube, making these
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: different adaptations from the same basic concepts. But I think
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: the idea there is like they're they're creating immersive worlds
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: that are actually psychically active.
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: You know, people dream in these spaces.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: I do think that can happen, right, They're.
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: Creating a meme or a tulpa and it's spreading it.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: I've seen ideas of that where people actually kind of
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: meet up in these places. It's like almost it's a
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: It's almost as if like I've heard like kind of
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: people trying to almost tie like to the Wi Fi
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: or the internet. Is it's something that's always existed and
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: we're tapping into. It's like you almost wonder like is
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: that how people are meeting? And you start hearing about
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: people in dreams or astral travel meeting up and like
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: you know this limital type, you know some other type place.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: Right, Well, what if these are actually being pumped into
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: your head? Like maybe that whole YouTube phenomena is just
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: cover for them to actually experiment on you in back
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: room scenarios inside of your own mind.
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: Using technotronics.
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: New Paranoia Unlocked.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure you could do that with music.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, who knows. They've got this Havana syndrome
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: where you you instantly become ill when you've.
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: Been hit with this radiation. Oh why, that's something that
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: would affect your dreams.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: You know, over time you hit them with the right
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: frequencies and you start to have these liminal space dreams.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: I wonder if you're gonna have you look into like
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: patents on dreams now and see if anyway's trying to
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: fuck with dreams.
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: That's a good idea.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you have a Oh my god, this movie, it's
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: an old one. It's something I would like to like
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: maybe color one day.
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: So I say that so many times. Dreamscape where like
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: you had these these two guys that are able to
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: go into people's dreams. They had this power and like
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: one dude was just like you know, an evil fuck
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: I guess, and you're trying to go on people's dreams,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: like importing people and kill them and so that they
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: take this other guy, Dennis Quaid. It's like one of
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: his earlier movies, and he's like the good guy and
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: he goes in to try to stop this, like guy
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: was turning into a snake and killing people. Fuck a
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: while though, but it, you know, it goes into like
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: being able to meet now in the dream worlds and stuff.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: That sounds like an eighties movie, you know, Yeah, what's
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: that uh tron? Oh god, where he's going inside the computer?
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that's.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: Going on with those movies in the eighties, you know.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a lot of those movies will you know,
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: they don't They either they're trying to tell you or
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: they're using occult ideas on their their their movies.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: Maybe they were expressing some deep psychological principles that they
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: just wanted to cover up as some sort of fun
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: action movie.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: So then every time it's shown in your face you
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: don't take it serious.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: You can use as an anchor point, you know, if
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: you're if you're trying to program somebody, you've already got
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: the environments all laid out. Yeah, kind of like these
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: mall dreams.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. Again, it's like very much like inception,
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: where you gott to map out, map out the area.
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: For the person there you go.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: Inception really goes under value because that's really.
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: How you architect.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: Well, what do they call it?
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: The memory palace?
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: Right? They're creating memory palaces within you that have different
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: things stashed away. Maybe you don't know what it is
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: right now, but you will. You might access it by accident,
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: might go on a little bit of a crazy spree.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Don't want to I don't want to forget this. This
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: this lady Jesus. The second time she's commented the first time,
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: I forgot her and I just please hold on. I
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: don't want to go back to the first one. Carissa
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: explains it all that, Clarissa, Carissa explains it all. I'm
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: assuming one of your listeners because it looks like she's
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: on your side. All right. Yes, first, someone please mention
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: stranger things and moles. But the first thing she did say,
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: I just want to use it to cover my ass
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: because I didn't know. She said, the nodes are part
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: of astrology and your birth chart. The north node representing
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: the future, indicates where you're headed, while the south node
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: representing the past and what you're leaving behind. Thank you
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: very much, Grissa. Yes, and then she did say stranger
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: things and moles.
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So stranger Things in that second season was.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: All about what was going on at the mall, yep.
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: And there have been I don't know if they're AI
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: or not, but there have been videos of people finding
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: abandoned sort of like a whole shopping centers underneath of
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: the mall that people are using above it. There's really
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: no explanation for that because those wigs were never open
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: to the public.
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: That's kind of bizarre, like.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: They had a whole alternate mall happening beneath the mall
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: on top.
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: Maybe it was a screw up. I mean, who knows.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: Maybe these limital places do exist that are connecting places
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: like malls which have a high foot traffic. If you're
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: if you're trying to collect energy, that's the place, you know.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: What if that's like what we're seeing when when we
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: had Michael want On and then Ricardo pulled up the
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: map and it showed all those those lines connecting, Maybe
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: it's something like that.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: Could be I'm telling you, if you put a mall
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: on a lay line or maybe one of these mound
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: sites just weird phenomena, right.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: And who knows.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: The architecture and malls are purely construction of the nineteen seventies,
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: like they didn't have those in the nineteen sixties and before,
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: like they just popped up all of a sudden in
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: the nineteen seventies, and then they became normalized to everybody,
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: and we go to the mall on Sundays. All of
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: the these different rituals occurred around this thing that was basically
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: brand new. Nobody had seen anything like it before, and
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: now they were everywhere. They were in every suburban area,
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: and it's almost seems like it was a it's going
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: away now they don't make them anymore. I don't know,
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: when's the last time you've seen a new mall being built.
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: They usually get torn down.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: No, Yeah, they they're just like, yeah, it's just an
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: old one changed over, although they are they make an
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: addition to it. I've seen that.
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they've got brand new styles that they're trying to
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: test out with these outside sort of motifs, you know,
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: to where you're not actually inside it.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yep, yep. I've seen them starting to do
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: that with outlets and not so much actually inside. You
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: kind of walking outside of everything now, right.
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: It used to be the outlets.
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: Us we're a mall.
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: But think about the energy costs, think about inflation again,
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: we go through these phases in these cycles because of
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: the inflation that we're experiencing, so you know, malls are
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: kind of a degradation.
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: Of what we had before that.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, well this has been another mail bag.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: I sound like shit, but thank you for We'll see
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: you again next time. You have any cool episodes coming.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Up here to pH Yeah, let me see what's coming
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: out this week or this weekend? Oh we got tomorrow. No,
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: this Dudley Town. You weren't there for that, all right?
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: I got high strangers at Dudley Town over the weekend.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: That was with the culting conspiracy. I got Rosa crushing
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: with Ronnie Pontiac. Next week, I do have my second
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: coming out, second time, well in a while. It's my
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: second solo. I'll be covering the Platonic Priest Marsilio Fittino,
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: So that will be dropping next week. I don't think
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: i'll be home. I'm gonna try to join the premiere.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: I might be filming at that time, so I may
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: not be able to. I may not have made it
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: home yet. But yeah, that's supposed to be dropping next Wednesday,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I look forward to that all visual if
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: people catch it, If you can watch it on YouTube.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Definitely catch it because it's all visual too tons of
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: shit to look good. So yeah, I got that. Yeah,
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: thank you.
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: Sounds awesome all right, Well, thank you for joining us everybody.
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: I love your comments. You've been a great audience and
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: we'll see you again next time. Lad bye