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Billionaire disrupters get a taste of their own medicine · The Front

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: It's Friday, March twenty twenty twenty six. The federal budget
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: is just around the corner and Jim Chalmers says we
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: could be in for a grim few years. He's told
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: economous Australia may not hit productivity goals for half a decade.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Israel's new ambassador to Australia says the war with Iran
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: is an urgent act of self defense and a struggle
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: between barbarism and civilization. That's an exclusive live now at
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: the Australian dot Com. The List Australia's Riches two fifty
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: is always a lot of fun. Who's down, who's playing
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: it down and who's really enjoying rolling in cash. We've
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: got this year's top ten ready to go, and editor
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: John Stenzelt is here in just a moment. The List
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Australia's Riches two fifty is out today and editor John
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: stands all this here. Who's on top?
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Gena Righthart of course, of course, who that's right? I
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: mean to know, she makes so much money, she's on
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: top very easily.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me about how Gena's moved up and down
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: or around the top position over the past few years.
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  Speaker 2: John She's been on top for about five or six
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: years now. So it's all about the iron ore price
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: with her, and all about exporting ironl to China, as
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: it always is. Although she seems to spend more time
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: at Mara Lago these days over at America with a
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: certain presidents, but her business here in Australia is still
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: ticking over very very nicely.
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  Speaker 1: One of the things about the list is that at
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: a certain point you have to lock off when you
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: stop calculating these billionaires wealth. And of course the news
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: doesn't stop it. It all keeps happening. How have the
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: recent events in Iran, the fact that we're now facing
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: a fuel crisis, maybe a diesel crisis, maybe an energy crisis.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: How's that affecting the richest people?
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Well, there's an Ali crisis as well, that's going on.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: It's look the stock market, I have not seen this
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: voltole for a long long time, Like you're getting movements
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: of five, six, seven, ten, twelve percent of stocks going
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: up and down every day. We had to roll it
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: off at a certain point, right and that was a
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: few weeks ago because we've got to get the magazine
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: into print. But yeah, it's been really interesting to see
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: it go all the way to that line because of
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: all those factors that you say. Stock markets move on sentiment, right,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: so people will get worried about something they go down,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: or they get really excited about something that they go up.
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  Speaker 2: So these people in the list, they're all billionaires, well
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: most of them are these days.
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  Speaker 3: There's one hundred and eighty eight of them out of
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  Speaker 3: two fifty.
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  Speaker 2: But they're still subject to the vagaries of what's going
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: on out there.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: The next two on the top five, number two, Harry
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Triggerbov property developer, and then Anthony Pratt and family, whose
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: fortune is in Visi the cardboard box company. I remember
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: when we had you on just after COVID John, we
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: talked about how pizza boxes had been very, very good
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: business for Anthony Pratt. What's happening now.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: There's still a lot of home deliveries these days. I mean,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but it seems to be
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: an Amazon packaged lands at our house every hour or two,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: and a lot of those are in busy boxes. So yeah,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: they're going very well. So it's manufacturing, there's going to
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: be clearly going to be cost issues with a company
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: like that, But he's just I think he said it
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: our global food for them, We'll just put the prices
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: up as well. So yeah, they are subjects and vagaries
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: and exchange rates as well. Right, He's got a lot
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: of business in America these days and brings it back
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: to Australia too, So even at that level where he's
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: worth thirty billion dollars, he's still watching what's happening out
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: there geopolitically every day because it has a big effect
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: on the business.
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  Speaker 1: We're in a high inflation moment. The Reserve Bank is
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: trying to squash that. Yet again, is that good for
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: billionaires the very richest people? Is inflation good for them?
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  Speaker 2: I think you get to a stage where those interest
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: rates don't really account There's a lot of those billionaires
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: that buy real estate. They don't take out mortgages, clare,
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: so they're going to be ok. I think it's that
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  Speaker 2: effect that has on their business. In retail, businesses that
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: are subject to what consumers are thinking out there. So
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of those companies that sell products to
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: the mass market. So if consumers are tightening their belts
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  Speaker 2: because of interest rate rises, there's issues with construction costs
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: and in the real estate. Then absolutely it's going to
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: affect them. It may not affect them directly, you know,
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  Speaker 2: if you have a super yat or a private jet,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: you probably still are going okay, but there's certainly effects
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: on their business, so they watch it very closely.
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  Speaker 1: Number four is Clive Palmer, another old fashioned billionaire who
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: seems to be dipping his toe back towards politics now.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: And then five and six are Cliff Obricked and Melanie Perkins,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: who founded Canva and have really led the absolute revolution
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: in design. Now everybody can I can design things really
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: quite badly, but on canvas that I once would have
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: had to use a graphic designer for. They are now
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: really an AI company like most tech companies. How are
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: they being affected by the AAR revolution.
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  Speaker 2: Look, they've made some acquisitions in AIS based Leonardo is
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: one of them, which actually hasn't gone very well. The
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Australians documented that there's been some people that they've basically
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: effectively sacked right after making big acquisite to try and
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: integrate that AI into their company. So they're having challenges
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: I think, at least with canva Ai. They have talked
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: about how much it helps them. They all talk about
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: it like that, so in a way to try and
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: head off any concerns. They are profitable for a start,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: which for a software company we won't talk about at
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Lassian as a contrast. At least they're profitable now. Whether
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: or not they end up listing on a stock market soon,
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  Speaker 2: it's been a long term plan that's subject to the
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: volatility of the market, and it was meant to be
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: sometime this year, so maybe it isn't. But look for
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: the moment, I think they're still going pretty well, but
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  Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised if their valuation gets cut pretty quickly.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Those two have been very clever in the way they've
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: managed their public image. I think they still have a
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  Speaker 1: bit of a halo around them. The opposite has happened
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: to Scott Farquhar and Mike cannon Brooks from at Lassian.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: They've had a very public and unpleasant breakup and now
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Mike cannon Brooks is left dealing with what seems to
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: be a mess at Lassian, one.
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  Speaker 3: Of Australia's biggest tech companies.
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  Speaker 4: At Lassians they said it will cut ten percent of
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: its global workforce.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: Tell me about them. They're at twelve and thirteen, so
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: were jumping out of the top ten for a second.
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  Speaker 3: They were like four and five a year ago.
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  Speaker 2: Right, So they've lost about sixteen seventeen billion dollars that's
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: been wiped off the value of their wealth in the
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: last year, and that's because the Outlassian share price has
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: gone down so much. That is directly related to AI. So,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, the company particularly that's seen as a threat
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: to them is Anthropic, which has the clawed chatbot which
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: people can use in the office to sort of effectively
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: replicate what the Outlassian software has done for many years
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: of the collaboration software that they have. So on the
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: one hand, this Anthropic product, the market shareholders have identified
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: that is is a big threat to Atlassian And as
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: a bit of an irony for you, Claire canon Brooks
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: has the huge sun cable solar power project that he
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: wants to get going in the Northern Territory, which could
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: be worth thirty or forty billion dollars. He wants to
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  Speaker 2: build a data center next to that. That's his private company.
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  Speaker 2: He's trying to get Anthropic as a customer of that
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  Speaker 2: data center, So on the one hand is good for him,
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: on the one head is bad for him. So it's
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: these are the sort of ups and downs that you
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: see through a list like this.
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  Speaker 1: These disruptors are being disrupted themselves in a way that
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: previously would have taken a couple of generations. When we
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: think about other billionaire families, how do you think they've
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  Speaker 1: coped with it?
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  Speaker 2: I don't think they know how to cope with it
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  Speaker 2: at the moment, right. I mean, they're the grand old
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  Speaker 2: age of their mid forties. They formed their company twenty
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: two to twenty three years ago. It doesn't feel like
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: long ago, but to be disrupted again at such a
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: young age. They were ahead of the curve so much
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: back then, and now they've tried to make acquisitions in
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  Speaker 2: that AI space and they're still a bit of groping
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  Speaker 2: around in the darkest to what that means for a
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: company like Alassian. You could see that with the job
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  Speaker 2: cuts they announced a sort of week or so ago
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  Speaker 2: of sixteen hundred people. I suspect there might be more.
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  Speaker 4: It's an incredibly hard decision, but I still believe that
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: it's the right one. We're focused on moving faster, staying
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  Speaker 4: disciplined on costs and proving that we can grow profitably
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: over the long term by staying responsive to the world
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  Speaker 4: that we have to operate in.
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  Speaker 2: That's a company that needs to make profits too. The
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: market's clearly identified that they've racked up about three point
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: five billion dollars of losses over the last ten years,
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: and I think the market's saying enough, gose get your
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: house in order make some money, and you know, cut
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: your cloth accordingly.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: We really did see an era where incredibly newsworthy companies
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: had huge valuations despite not having made a profit. Alasian
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: is the perfect example. Took camer a long time to
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: make a profit. Is that going to change in the future,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: do you think, John or not?
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: I feel in these volatile times it probably does. I
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: mean you're seeing a bit of a swing back to
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: some of these old fashion industries so to speak. You know,
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: in mining, in financial services, in manufacturing, in real estate
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: that have actually done pretty well on the stock exchange
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: in the last year. And there's a bit of a
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: flight to gold, for example. I know that's a safe,
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: defensive thing. So you've seen gold or lithium miners that
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: are back in fashion too. So I think there's a
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: bit of a moment where investors are saying, we'd love
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: to see making some money, but with one probably notable exception.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: That's so if you're on the AI revolution, there's some
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: really interesting new names that coming on the list because
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: of that, then you know it looks like you're getting
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: massive valuations.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Coming up. Be under the radar. Billionaires. Racing up the
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: list at number seven is Nicola Forest, one place ahead
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: of her ex husband or estranged husband, Andrew Forrest.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Tell me why, Well, she's got fifty million more Fortescue
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Metals Group shares than Andrew does.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: I suspect that was some sort of a settlement, an
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: agreement when they did split up a couple of years ago.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: So yes, she's just above them. Other than that holding,
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: they've still got fifty to fifty shareholdings in public assets
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: and also private assets. They've got a big, tattering empire
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: that owns Iram Williams, for example, so assets like that.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: So there fifty to fifty except for the little bit
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: that she's got on top, which actually turns out to
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: be about a billion dollars worth.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: He's got big dreams too about green hydrogen and all
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: sorts of other things.
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: I'm saying, anyone who says Hygien hasn't got a massive
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: future a muppets, she tends.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: To invest more in things like real estate with her money.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Is that a more sensible strategy right now? Do you think?
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: Well, again, it goes back to that volatility, right, there's
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: a scarcity when it comes to real estate.
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: I think you.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: Still see Sydney Prestige property still setting all sorts of
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: records all the time.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: So maybe that's a bit of a safe have.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: And look, you never know with companies in the stock exchange,
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: there's that sentiment. As I go back to it, it
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: can really vary very quickly, and more passive assets like
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: that can be safe for Yeah.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: And number nine is someone I've never heard of, Michael Darrell.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: What's his story.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: He's a guy that behind Stone Peak, which is a
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: New York basically infrastructure investment company, owns a lot of
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: infrastructure assets around the world and yet made his money out.
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: Of the spotlight.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: But he's doing very very well. He's an Aussie on
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Wall Street, big crinol Sharks fan.
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: He's a very interesting guy.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: He's got a one hundred and fifty million dollar house
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: across the water from mar A Lago in work in Florida.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: We since he spent his weekends.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: And have you been watching him? Of course where else
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: would you go? Have you been watching him climb the
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: ranks towards this number nine.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Percenttionast couple of years, he's gone really really well. The
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: more assets of that company accumulates on its balance sheet,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: the more it tends to get valued. So in that
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: way he has moved up. But again it's a little
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: bit more of an old fashioned sort of asset owning business.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: And number ten is probably the ultimate old fashioned businessman
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: with a real log cabin story. Kerry Stokes, who grew
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: up in relative poverty, became one of the most powerful
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: figures in Australian mining and media and now is stepping back.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: Really why is he still at number ten?
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Well, it's because of other industries. Actually, the media plays
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: a very very small part of his holdings these days.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: So his seven Group or SGH it's what it's now
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: known NAZ has a whole bunch of other more sort
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: of mining services or construction or infrastructure related companies like
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: the Caterpillar business that's here in Australia, for example, borrel
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: which makes building material. So that's where the real strength
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: of his wealth is now. I mean clearly, being a
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: media mogul brought him a lot of influence and power
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: over the years, but it's almost like a sliver of
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: what his wealth is now.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Now. On the cover is someone else who I haven't
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: heard of John I'm learning a lot this time. Matt Lattimore.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Who is he?
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: He's a Queensland cole baron.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: I think he's got a really interesting story too. So
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: he grew up in regional New South Wales and we'll
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: see on our website on Friday that we've got video
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: of him going to see his parents back there, and
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: it's corporate jet footage.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: All these things you have to do with the riches
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: two fifty I think.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: So with you on the corporate general I've.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Met a colleague as well, so we we're had a
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: great time filming meeting of the parents. Looking around where
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: a guy comes from and sort of quite humble beginnings.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: He goes off to university in Queensland. He moves over
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: to Japan, studies the language there, goes into the library
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: and starts reading about trading and what are the big
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: trades between Japan and Australia. Well, it turns out to
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: be coal and resources, so he gets a job in
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: that industry. It goes to a couple of different places,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: including West Farmers, and then decides to form his own
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: business and Resources about fifteen years ago. Now starts basically
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: by working in the coffee shops around Brisbane and just.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: Keeps growing and growing and growing and growing.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: And now his company is making one hundred million dollars
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: net profit every year trading coal and buying other commodities.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: He's very interested now in steelmaking. He's one of the
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: contenders to buy the Wayala Steel Works in South Australia.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: So he's right at the pointy end of that. And
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: he's got this corporate jet that he uses a business tool.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: He flies South America, North America, Asia, Europe. He's on
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: the road a lot or in the air a lot.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Did you have to talk him into letting you come
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: on board? What was he happy to talk?
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: I think he wanted to show that a guy that
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: does come from just a pretty normal family. His mum
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: and dad were fantastic showing us all old clippings of
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: when he was an athlete, an eight hundred meter runner
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: in high school and winning medals there. He actually puts
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: some of his persistence down to the training that he
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: used to do but little athletics, which I thought is
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: a great story. So yeah, it's quite interesting to see where people,
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: you know, not everyone's born into wealth, and there's just
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: that persistence and there's great stories. I mean, we obviously
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: rank all these people when it comes to the numbers,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: but I think what we try to do differently in
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: this magazine is just too just tell stories about interesting people.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: At the end of the day, it's a collection of
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: interesting people that I think have got interesting stories behind them,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: and there's all sorts of weird and wonderful ways that
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: they get on this list.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: It's nice to see someone enjoying their wealth. I mean
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: I say that because a lot of the people who
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: who are on the list, maybe they are quietly enjoying
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: their wealth, but they certainly don't want you, you know,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: you to write about it, do they.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Well, I think you'll find a lot of them talk
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: to me on background, but they don't necessarily want to
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: be public. I would say the vast majority of the
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: list actually do talk to us. I end up having
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: these crazy conversations that I think you're worth one point
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: two billion, and they will come back to me and say, no,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: it's one point two to three billion. So this is
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: the bizarre world that billionaires can inhabit at times. But yeah,
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of interest. I can assure you that
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: when the list hits the website or comes out in print,
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: that the two fifty on the list watch it pretty
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: closely in and I hear pretty quickly if there's any
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: issues with it.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you do. John, Thank you very much, Thanks Claire.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: John Stensholt is the editor of the list Australia's Riches
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: two fifty. It's out now and you can see who's
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: making and losing money right now at the Australian dot
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: com dot au