Latest / Pastor Plek's Podcast / The Pillars of Spiritual Discernment

Transcript

The Pillars of Spiritual Discernment · Pastor Plek's Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, pastor plec, joining with me in studios none other than the lead pastor from east side community church in east austin, holland, greg how's it going?
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Everyone?
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: And then also from the cody sparks band, world famous.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Uh, incredible guitar playing and singing.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Uh, cody Sparks Still here, all right.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: So what we're talking about this afternoon is a question, and I'll give it to you.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: I believe that in order to hear God's voice, I have to read his word.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: I mentioned this to a friend and she added or pray.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: I think if someone prays and doesn't read their Bible, they'll be missing an essential part of their relationship with God.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: My personality has a tendency to see everything in black and white, no gray.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Is it possible to put too much emphasis on God's word, to the point of putting God in a box, putting limits on how God communicates with us?
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Question mark.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Good question yeah, holland, what do you think All right?
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Good question yeah, holland, what do you think all right?
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: So initial initial thought thought is you know, is it possible to put too much emphasis on god's word?
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I, I struggle to say you can put too much emphasis on god's word, um, to try to put god in a box.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Because I think, you know, the idea of putting God in a box is like, okay, he can only operate this way or that way, but how?
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: How would we like answer that?
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Well, god's word says he's in, the Lord is in the heavens, he does all that he pleases.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: You know, like the way that we would counter something is by showing it from the Word All of creation reveals God's glory.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: So, like putting God in a—what's the solution to putting God in a box?
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: You need to go to the Word more actually.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: You need a better understanding of the Word to know that God—so like how I would think about this question?
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: I would think of Acts, chapter 13.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, comes to mind where they were.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: it says in the church at Antioch, setting apart Barnabas and Paul.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, they were worshiping the Lord and fasting and the Holy Spirit said set apart for me, barnabas and Saul, for the work to which I have called them.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: So there's not a Bible verse that says set apart.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Right, they're not quoting scripture.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: This is the Holy Spirit speaking to them as they're fasting and praying.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: They're worshiping the Lord and fasting and God spoke to them.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: And then it says after fasting and praying, they laid their hands on him and sent him off.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: So I think that's an example in the Bible, you know, of the Spirit speaking not in contradiction to the word, but in line with what is true from the word, but giving a particular word for the moment.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: So let's, let's talk.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: I one of the things I've said and you've probably heard me say it and it's probably at this point God's word, god's spirit, god's people everyone's hate hates it by now, but it's God's word says go into all the earth, go into all, make disciples of all nations.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, you've got that commandment.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Then you're sitting there fasting and praying and someone says hey, I really feel like the Lord is saying we need to set apart Paul and Barnabas for the work that he has called them.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: And then they send them off.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: They clearly knew.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: So, being sent up by the Holy spirit, they went down to Seleucia and they sailed to Cyprus and when they arrived at Salamis, they proclaimed the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews and they had John to assist them.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: So here's what, when I what I love about that is they had a oh, a scripture that was clear, a scripture that was clear go to all nations.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Then they had a Holy Spirit saying set apart these two guys.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: And then these prophets are, or prophets, these elders are all there going yeah, I'm going to lay my hands and commission these guys.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: So God's word, god's spirit, god's people are all included in that.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: And so to this person's question is God's spirit going to work independent of God's word?
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: No, but is God's spirit only going to say what God's word says?
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Also no.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: So, like you know, god in his word doesn't have anything about planting churches in Austin Texas, but we feel that God has a calling on our church to continue to plant churches in the greater Austin area.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so like can you put God in a box?
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, but I don't think it's quite right to say that you're focusing too much on the word, because the word itself is what gives us examples of the Spirit speaking to people through prayer and fasting, not just this particular scripture.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: And I think I've said this before when you only have someone listening to the Spirit, well, that gets really confusing, because sometimes you're listening to the Spirit and sometimes you're listening to the pizza that was bad from yesterday and you are having indigestion.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Or you really want something.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: So you're listening to the pizza that was bad from yesterday and you are having like indigestion.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Or you just you really want something, so you're doing it and you're putting a God, god told me, call me, said something, label on it and so without, in those, in those moments and you can say, well, the Bible doesn't say anything against that.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: So what I always call those people are Christian tourists.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: They are the ones that don't want to hear from any other person.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: They want to go and serve the Lord without having anyone understand them, rebuke them, have any sort of community.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: If you have just God's word and you're not operating on the spirit, then it gets really difficult to live out the Christian life without the Holy Spirit.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: And so to say that the Christian life without the Holy Spirit, yeah, and so to say that you're not operating the Holy Spirit and to also not operate with God's people, then you're like a hermit.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you totally have become beyond a tourist.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: You are just no people, no spirit.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to study, I'm a monk in a building that is studying this word.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: But if you're like I'm not going to study, I'm a monk in a in a building that is studying this word.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: But if you have, if you're like I'm not going to do the spirit thing, I'm just going to do God's people and God's word, no risk taking, no Holy spirit involvement, Then I think that's when you that's you tend to become Christian clicky.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: That that's what ends up happening.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: You're not going to take any risk with new people, you're not going to go reach those who are far from God.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: You put up big barriers around people so they stop.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: You're always worried about people stopping sinning.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: And then, if you have you know I've said this if you have a Christian, you know God's people and God's spirit.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Without God's word, I don't know if you actually have God's people and God's spirit.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: But you have something and I call that.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: You know the emotional support group.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Like you, do you that support group?
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Like you, do you that?
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: That, like the people who go like they have no moral value?
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Uh, beyond, hey, as long as it doesn't hurt anybody, that's kind of like the, the ultimate thing.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: That's usually the emotional support group.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: You need to go sleep with 50 people to kind of find you know.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: So, your oats, you should do that.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: You need to go and do whatever it is so that you can feel good about yourself.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: You should do that.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: Uh, I think that's where a lot of people go and they miss out on the goodness of God and his discipline.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Love, correction, repentance, all that stuff Acts 16, another example.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: A vision appeared to Paul in the night.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: A man of Macedonia was standing there urging him and saying come over to Macedonia and help us.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: And when Paul had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go on into Macedonia, concluding that God called us to preach the gospel to them.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: I love how he concluded it.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: It was a dream, right, he could have said.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: And it was in community, there's we and us.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: So you've got God's people, you've got God's spirit, you know giving a vision, and then you have God's word they're going to preach the gospel.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: So it's in line with the mission proclaim the gospel to the whole world.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: But it's also just using your like you said they concluded it.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: They use their thoughts, like okay, I think this is what God is saying, and you know God called us to preach the gospel.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: So, like, this is discerning a calling from God into a particular ministry.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: That's not necessarily a certain Bible verse, but is in line with the word of God.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about where people usually get off on this stuff.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: I think it's usually in dating.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: They're like I really feel like the Lord wants me to be with this person, or leaving a church, or leaving a church.
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, let me pray about it.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: I'm really like the Lord doesn't want me to reconcile with you.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: That's the number one.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's actually very true.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just feel like the Lord's leading me.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Really, the Lord is calling you to leave God's people where he birthed you where he raised you.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: It becomes just an easy way, because you can't say no to God.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it becomes something that people do take advantage of.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Um, if it's like yeah, god told me I'm supposed to date you, you know you're supposed to marry I had a dream about you and I concluded that God is calling me to take you out.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, it can be abused, for sure.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, how, what other?
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: I guess it's leaving a church, it's dating a person, uh, it is marrying somebody.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: It is what else?
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: What other ways we we, we, we, we, I guess, leaving a job, would that be one?
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: uh, yeah sure, I mean you can I've you could use it for anything but, it's very versatile and I think that's because usually people I think the part that people usually don't like is they don't like the god's people part, and I think if you are hesitant about bringing whatever god has called you to do to other people because you're afraid of what they're going to say, then that those people become your God or or cause.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Let's say, god is calling you to the thing and they say no.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Well then they should.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: You should have conviction and understanding that that the people that love you the most said you shouldn't do this, and so you gotta be absolutely a thousand percent sure that the course of action you're taking is the Lord's leading, and I would just be really hesitant, uh, if you're, you're around people and they're like a hard, no one something, and you're like nah, override, um, and yeah, yeah.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: So anyway, I think it's a great question.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: I think it's the concern that whoever you know texted in of like, like.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: I resonate with that concern because I know I've seen people be like well, I was praying and God told me.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: And man, whenever people say God told me and I was praying and the Bible's not in the picture and they're not asking you, what do you think Was that the Lord?
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: They're just telling you, as you usually is a red flag of like yeah, they're, they got um, they're neglecting God's people and God's word and you're going to go off.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, um, in terms of also the other, the other one which is like people are just, you know, they do the, they find a verse.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Ah, the Lord said uh, you know.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: And Judas went and hanged himself uh, you know, whatever the thing is, you know, uh, you know, like they could go and find a verse and and make it apply to them and call that.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: God told me, and which is also that's why you need people, so you don't misuse the scripture.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: That's how you prevent heresy is uh, heresies always were formed in um academic silos.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: That's where they're usually formed, or by drift, and nobody correcting anything I think reading the word is very, very important, because that's your, that's your sword, that's your, that's how you fight, that's your, your battles.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: You have the word, that's how you learn, that's how you teach people.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: But I also think it you have the word, that's how you learn, that's how you teach people.
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: But I also think it's important to take time to talk to God and build that relationship.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: You know, like Noah walked with the Lord and found favor with God, I like to walk and pray and think and just talk to God and listen and be there.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: So I think both are very, very important, depending on how you use that.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: But if the Lord speaks to you, correct it should, it will and that should be.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: It will be in line with what scripture says.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: And then you shouldn't be afraid to say like, hey Holland, chris, what do you guys think about this thing?
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: And we'd be like, oh, that's you know I was going to say you need that affirmation yeah, that's anyway, I think in the past, like, do you guys remember I don't know if Holland would remember this, but experiencing God, henry Blackaby, I think the entire nation did that at one point during the early 2000s yeah, and kind of like Before I was a Christian, but I heard of it since.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was like it was God's.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: It was kind of the same thing God's word, God's people, God's spirit, but also it was God's circumstances like open door, and I always was hesitant on that one Find out where God is working and join him.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: I like that one Find out where God is working and then join him.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: That was like the big thing that I always heard about and I appreciated that.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: But the thing that was like circumstances to me were like how do I know this is a closed door that I'm supposed to find a window for, or is this a closed door that I need to go the other way?
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Is this Satan closing the door and I need to bust the door in and keep going?
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Or is it God closing it and I?
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: need to walk away.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: So I think for me, one of the cool things here at the church, one of the moments that have really leaned into going back to God's people, is when we were trying to figure out, like, what the Lord would have for us with church planning.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: We were like, all right, so, god, are you calling us to plant a church at the same time as we are to, um, build a building?
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: And all the elders went away to pray and we all came back and, um, we said, hey, no, god's calling us to put that church on this land the end.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: And then, after that some period of time, after, we will plan another church.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, shortly after that 72 hour fasting and praying, we got called by the uh donor and said, hey, the deal's off, I don't have the money, I can't do it.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Sorry, uh, and I was just like womp, womp, and so we'd already voted as a church, we already done all the things as a, as a church and everyone that we already gotten the momentum going towards brushy Creek.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: And then, uh, uh, I I call Joel, who was elder chairman at that time, and he's like, uh, let's, we don't need to tell the church anything, because I was at Cody's Ranch.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: When that happened it was on Friday, the Friday after Thanksgiving, and that's when I got that phone call, and so I immediately called Joel Joel's like no, we don't need to say anything in the church yet.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: So on that Saturday night or Sunday night I'm like don't we need to say something?
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: They're like nope.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: So we had an elder meeting that next Monday morning and I'm like, guys, we've got to say something.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: We just lost the land.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: And Joel and everyone went into like crisis management mode.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Like how are we going to tell the church that we lost the land?
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: How are we going to tell the church that we lost?
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: the land.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: How are we going to like what's the bet?
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: And then Joel like stands up and starts yelling God already done, told this elder board that this is our land.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: And we're all like I don't know how to tell you this, but he called me and said it's done, like there's no land.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: And then he goes I already, we already heard from the Lord that is our land.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: And I'm like okay.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: So I was like okay.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: I was like I guess we'll talk about this next meeting anyway.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: So then, um, about four hours later, the donor called back, said hey, deal's back on.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: But this happened to multiple times.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: It was wild.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: It was wild.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: And so from that point forward I was like, oh, this is our land, we don't need to worry about it.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: And I think there was an opportunity that came up.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Another pastor was like he had like 10 acres of land.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: He said, hey, why don't you just sell your land and build the church?
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Build your church on our land.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: And I was like you know what God already done told us that's, you know what God already done?
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Told us, uh.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: And I said we're going to stick with the plan that God has for us, uh, because I don't want it to get to a place where we're not you know what I mean, we're, um, where we're not following the Lord.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: So, anyway, that that to me was a pretty powerful moment, that.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: I got to experience with the Lord and, and so that has that has given me that.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: I got to experience with the Lord and so that has given me unbelievable amounts of calm and surety when it comes to raising money, getting a loan, all that stuff.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: I know it doesn't mean we don't have to work.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean we just go like whatever, yeah, it's going to happen, yeah but, it's going to happen, yeah it's like when God would tell the Israelite like Joshua um, you know the, the Israelite like Joshua and you know the, the army of uh.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: He would say you know like, uh, I have, I have delivered uh your enemies into your hands.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Now go and fight.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: Right, you know I, and so like, the victory is there, but you still got to go do the fight.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: You go into it confident, knowing God has already won this battle.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: We're just kind of like we're we're going through the motions, but we know who the victory belongs to, so that's really cool.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so anyway, I, I I really appreciate that and was encouraged by that.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Um.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: So yeah, Any other thoughts on that question?
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: My, my encouragement would be you know the person who sent the text in.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: I tend to, you know, have that like reservation of, like, well, slow down, you know, but like to know, like I don't know.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: It's a good God's word, spirit and people you got to really have all three of those going.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: And so don't be closed off to the idea of God speaking to you while you're praying and fasting.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Prayer is a powerful thing.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: And be like no, god doesn't do that, because that is putting God in a box, but not according to what his word says.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: All right, hey.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to be a part of the conversation, you can text us at 737-231-0605.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you, From our house to yours.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Have an awesome week of worship.