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The coming Millennial Kingdom: The pattern behind every fallen Empire · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

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  Sherry Tenpenny.
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• 2:02
  Now, let's get started.
• 2:04
  Today's conversation is with author, media evangelist, and longtime co-host of Christ in Prophecy at Lamb and Lion Ministries, Dr.
• 2:13
  Nathan E.
• 2:14
  Jones to talk about his book that was published pretty recently.
• 2:18
  So it really is very pertinent to today's topic, today's uh politics and what's going on in the world, the coming millennial kingdom, what life will be like for us when Jesus reigns on earth.
• 2:30
  God's answer to the failure that is human government.
• 2:35
  Nathan is so great to see you again.
• 2:37
  Welcome.
• 2:38
  Welcome back to the Ten Pity Files.
• 2:40
  Thank you so much for joining me this morning.
• 2:42
  Oh, it's my pleasure, Dr.
• 2:44
  Tenpenny.
• 2:44
  I really enjoyed our time last time.
• 2:47
  And it was just exciting to see the invite to come back and share what God's put on our hearts.
• 2:52
  So thank you.
• 2:53
  You're welcome.
• 2:54
  You know, your what your book, The Coming Millennial Kingdom, you dive right in to talk about the failure of human governments that are the results of a fractured society.
• 3:05
  And you say, quote, that we clash over so we clash over contradictory opinions on sociopolitical matters because we don't have a common moral or political viewpoint with no shared value system, societies invest inevitably tear themselves apart at the seams, which surely seems like what's going on in our country today.
• 3:29
  What is the problem that evil has gotten so entrenched in our government and our human government has failed us?
• 3:36
  Well, that's a great question.
• 3:38
  When I started the book, I went and wanted to find out what were the the eight greatest empires that made a difference in all of human society, the real game changers.
• 3:47
  And I was surprised to learn the first one is one of the oldest ones, the Akkadian.
• 3:52
  Next was the Persian, which you know, we're seeing a lot going on with Iran recently, uh, which is the modern name of Persia.
• 3:58
  We got the Roman Empire, the Mongols, the Ottomans, the British, the Soviet Russo uh Union, and then the United States.
• 4:06
  And it's interesting that when you look throughout history at all these great game-changing empires, what do they all have in common?
• 4:13
  They've all failed, they don't exist anymore in the United States, is in a process of decline.
• 4:18
  I think we're kind of bumping up a little recently, but it's a slow bump and a continuing decline we see because democracies or republics like we have don't last more than 200 years.
• 4:29
  We've reached 250, so praise the Lord.
• 4:31
  But it seems to be that continually human government fails.
• 4:35
  And that was what I really wanted to address.
• 4:37
  It's an apologetic, which is a defense of the faith.
• 4:40
  Uh, the the apologetic is the problem of evil as it relates to failed human government.
• 4:46
  You know, people are losing their faith in God because human government is a God-ordained institution to hold back evil.
• 4:54
  The the true purpose of government, if anyone ever wants to know, is true security and justice for its people.
• 5:00
  And it fails to do that, people not only lose faith in the government, they still begin to lose faith in God.
• 5:05
  Why God, they ask, did you not stop?
• 5:08
  You know, whatever the issue is.
• 5:10
  And so uh the problem with government, though, why it's a failure.
• 5:13
  I think Dr.
• 5:14
  Tenpenny, you go to Micah 7 3, one of the saddest verses in all the Bible, and it says, the prince asks for gifts, the judge seeks a bribe, and the great man utters his evil desire, and so they scheme together.
• 5:28
  So as long as it's the sin nature is within us, mankind is corrupt, therefore government is corrupt, and governments will then always fail us.
• 5:41
  Because we don't teach to history anymore, and people don't know a lot about history, and they don't know us, particularly about ancient history.
• 5:48
  They don't even know about American history.
• 5:51
  Um, but the decline of the Roman Empire, you know, it happened over about 150 years, you know, and it would have its little fits and starts.
• 6:00
  Um, when I was in college, all of my uh a large number of my um my humanities courses were all done on history, and I had almost a minor in history and and my focus was on Roman history.
• 6:13
  I don't know, it just fascinated me.
• 6:15
  Interesting.
• 6:16
  A lot about the decline of the Roman Empire before the Visigoths came in from the North.
• 6:21
  That didn't just happen overnight.
• 6:23
  It's sort of like what we're seeing, the gradual decline and and the moral disintegration of what's happening in America.
• 6:29
  Um, and you know, we keep saying waving the flag and saying, God bless America and make America great again, and you know, all of these things, but the continual downhill decline is really quite frightening and is very historical.
• 6:44
  And you talk about that in your book, particularly when you declare um talk about the different falls and declines of the of the empires and how long that they lasted.
• 6:54
  Yeah, it's interesting.
• 6:55
  I I love Roman history too, because I love church history.
• 6:58
  And it's interesting that the Roman Empire seems to have collapsed based on three things.
• 7:02
  One was the obvious internal moral degradation.
• 7:05
  I mean, the the people had no moral fiber anymore, even though they called themselves the Christian as a since uh all uh excuse me, a Constantine that they became a Christian nation, so to speak.
• 7:17
  Uh morally, the Romans were completely bankrupt.
• 7:19
  Two, there was a great plague that wiped out many, and so to fill the roles of jobs, they brought in, they had open borders.
• 7:27
  So, you know, they brought in the, like you said, the Visigoths and the Vandals and all these groups.
• 7:32
  And once these groups came in and settled the area, they started saying, well, this is our land now.
• 7:35
  This isn't Roman land.
• 7:37
  And the the nation started or the empire, I should say, started being fractured.
• 7:41
  And uh we see the then the East and West legs of the Roman Empire.
• 7:46
  But you know what's what's interesting, Dr.
• 7:47
  Tenpenny is that's a fulfillment of Bible prophecy because in Daniel 2, Daniel prophesied the future empires, and one of them is the Roman Empire, and he used a statue to define what those empires would be.
• 8:00
  The head of gold was Nebuchadnezzar, the Babylonian, and then the chest of silver was the Medo-Persians, which replaced the Babylonian, and then the belly and the thighs of bronze was the Greeks, you know, led by Alexander the Great.
• 8:14
  Finally, the legs would be the Roman Empire, the a great fierce iron empire that would destroy and it would eventually degrade into ten toes, which were a mixture of iron and clay.
• 8:25
  And Nebuchadnezzar had this dream.
• 8:27
  He said that a stone not cut out by human hands would come careening out of the sky and hit that statue and obliterate it and then grow to fill the earth.
• 8:36
  And it was a prophecy that human government will come to an end.
• 8:41
  This failed flawed system that we're living under will have an end because that stone is a prophecy about the Messiah, the return of Jesus Christ to end the time of the Gentiles and to set up his kingdom on this earth, a kingdom of peace and righteousness and justice where Jesus rules and reigns from Jerusalem.
• 8:59
  So the answer to the problem of evil as it relates to failed human government can be found in that Daniel 2 prophecy that yes, this failed system will end when the Messiah returns.
• 9:22
  I mean, it really laid it out, you know, really specifically.
• 9:26
  So for the listener, this book is something that it's not, it's not just a sit down and casually read book.
• 9:32
  This is a book that you study and you learn from.
• 9:36
  And, you know, the that leads to a question because of the the really clear delineation that you just went through, and you do do it even in greater detail in your book about Nebuchadnezzar's dream.
• 9:47
  What's God's reason for redeem revealing the whys and hows of human government's ending and being replaced by Christ's earthly kingdom?
• 9:56
  Why does he tell us that in advance and so far in advance?
• 9:59
  So many thousands.
• 10:00
  Of years in advance.
• 10:01
  Well, let's uh go up to the 30,000 foot view, get the God's eye view and see that when God made Adam and Eve, when he made mankind, we had perfect fellowship him.
• 10:10
  Uh the Bible talks how in the garden of Eden, Adam and Eve walked and talked and had fellowship with God.
• 10:16
  And it was a beautiful thing.
• 10:17
  It was a beautiful friendship.
• 10:19
  But once sin, which is rebellion entered, that relationship was broken.
• 10:24
  And a holy God couldn't be with an unholy people.
• 10:27
  And so all of human history is his act of bringing humanity back to a saving relationship with him.
• 10:34
  Initially, he created human government as a system to keep lawlessness at bay, but it and then a sacrificial system to temporarily cover the sins of the people.
• 10:46
  But what we always needed was an ultimate savior.
• 10:49
  And we have that in Jesus Christ, who gave his life.
• 10:52
  He was the ultimate, the pure and perfect sacrifice for our sins.
• 10:56
  And when we put our faith and trust in him, uh then our sins are forgiven, and we are become what's called citizens of the kingdom of Christ's coming kingdom, where we look forward to that day where Jesus rules and reigns on this earth, and we serve him.
• 11:11
  Now, so the answer is that sin will always destroy any system.
• 11:16
  And I know I'll get ahead of myself, but once Jesus rules and reigns here on this earth, we in our glorified bodies will rule over those who in their earthly bodies will continue to, you know, fill the planet and live, but they still have the sin nature in them.
• 11:30
  And even in a utopian setting, we will read in Revelation that there will be a final rebellion against God at the end of that millennial kingdom.
• 11:38
  And again, proof that as long as sin is in the picture, you can't have a perfect governmental system, even when we have the perfect king in place and the purified administration, which is us who are in our glorified bodies, the church.
• 11:53
  Now, in your book, you know, through your book, the coming millennial kingdom, it one of the themes I think that you try to bring across is to encourage faith and long suffering by telling us what we're looking forward to.
• 12:08
  And what are the fourfolds of the kingdom of Christ to come?
• 12:12
  Oh, that's a good question.
• 12:13
  Um, so a lot of people confuse they don't know what the kingdom of Christ is.
• 12:17
  And one of the best explanations I got is from uh Cotton Mather in my research.
• 12:22
  Cotton Mather was a Puritan pastor a few hundred years ago, and he defined the kingdom of Christ as a fourfold kingdom, or you'd say threefolds, but one was still future.
• 12:32
  He said it's a spiritual kingdom.
• 12:34
  In other words, if you become saved, you're part of that spiritual kingdom.
• 12:38
  And Jesus even said, this kingdom is not of this earth.
• 12:41
  And he was talking about ushering in the church age, which is a spiritual kingdom, but also a providential kingdom.
• 12:47
  In other words, God is supreme over all and he rules over all authority.
• 12:52
  And so there's that fold of the kingdom of Christ.
• 12:55
  Now, directly through the church is called the ecclesiastical fold.
• 12:59
  It's the church age where we are representative of Christ on this earth, but the one he pointed out most that hasn't happened yet, and this is the one that a lot of Christians over the centuries have ignored and think the church is the kingdom, is the Davidic fold of the kingdom, where you go back to 2 Samuel 7, where God made a covenant with King David.
• 13:19
  He said, I will set up your seed after you, and I will establish the throne of his, the Messiah's kingdom forever.
• 13:25
  So this was a promise that one day this ruler, this perfect ruler, a descendant of David, would come upon this earth and set up the final phase of the kingdom of Christ, that's David Kingdom, or as we know from the book of Revelation, chapter 20, the millennial kingdom.
• 13:41
  And we call it the millennial kingdom because six times there in Revelation 20, Jesus says, or the angel says it's a thousand years, a thousand years, a thousand years.
• 13:50
  So Miliannum means thousand years, and that's where we get the term thousand years, but it's actually a prophecy for a king that'll go on forever and ever.
• 14:00
  But the millennial kingdom is like the first phase or the opening act of that kingdom.
• 14:05
  Now, you make a comment in the end of that section on the end of chapter two, that I've I just think it's just brilliant.
• 14:13
  And I and I want to just uh share it with our with our listeners and encourage you to get this book, because seriously, it is uh a book worth getting, having and studying.
• 14:23
  You said that the golden rule of Bible interpretation is quote, when the plain sense makes sense, look for no other sense lest you end up with nonsense.
• 14:35
  Um, I guess that's something that you must learn when you go to when you go to school.
• 14:40
  But you know, for those of us as lay people out here, that you know, you could apply that to everything.
• 14:45
  You can apply that to politics and medicine and health care.
• 14:49
  And I'll say it again when the plain sense makes sense, look for no other sense lest you end up with nonsense.
• 14:55
  Why don't you expound on that a little bit more?
• 14:58
  Yeah, we call that the golden rule of biblical interpretation.
• 15:01
  You want to believe what the Lord says, then take them literally.
• 15:04
  It's a literal interpretation.
• 15:06
  We see so many false doctrines come about, uh, even cults, because what they do is they spiritualize the scripture.
• 15:13
  In other words, they say, well, the Bible doesn't mean what it means.
• 15:16
  For instance, uh, Revelation 20, where six times it says the kingdom of Christ will initially be a thousand years.
• 15:23
  And people say, Well, this doesn't really mean a thousand years.
• 15:26
  It means we're in the kingdom now in the church, or uh the kingdom is in our heart spiritually, or uh, but the Lord was very clear.
• 15:34
  He didn't say it just once or twice, but six times a thousand years.
• 15:38
  So a literal interpretation gets the uh interpretation that, yes, it is exactly how a thousand years, and we call that pre-millennialism, the belief that yes, the Bible teaches a thousand years.
• 15:50
  Likewise, when Jesus says in John 14, 6, I am the way, the truth, and the life.
• 15:55
  Nobody comes to the Father except by me.
• 15:58
  A spiritualist would say, well, you know, what he's saying is that he's opening up all the religions, every path will take you to God.
• 16:05
  When in fact, it's the complete opposite.
• 16:08
  And we find that people who spiritualize their interpretation of scripture, remove God as the authority and put themselves as the authority of what God says, and then interpret the Bible the way they want it to be interpreted.
• 16:20
  And that's why we got so much Dr.
• 16:22
  Tenpenn, you know it, just so much heresy out there.
• 16:25
  So many churches that are steeped in apostasy, is because they've removed the authority of God off of the interpretation of the Bible and place themselves in that role.
• 16:34
  So, yes, follow the golden rule of interpretation, and everything in the Bible will begin to make sense to you when you interpret the Bible literally.
• 16:44
  And what we have ended up with is just what you said in that quote.
• 16:48
  We've ended up with a lot of nonsense.
• 16:50
  Mm-hmm.
• 16:51
  Mm-hmm.
• 16:52
  A lot of nonsense in the church that just is uh the antithesis, the opposite of what what Jesus says and what the Bible talks about.
• 17:00
  And somehow it's like as long as we love and be all inclusive, that's what God wants.
• 17:05
  And that's not what God says in his word.
• 17:08
  You know, in your book, you know, speaking of golden uh of golden rules, in your book you talk about the golden thread, binding together what would have been, quote, a wearisome diet of Jewish history.
• 17:22
  Well, out loud when I said that, you know, because it is a lot of Jewish history that just you know is kind of tied together by a common thread.
• 17:30
  But what is that golden thread that ties that all together?
• 17:34
  It's God's plan of redemption.
• 17:35
  It's throughout the entire Bible.
• 17:37
  Jesus Christ, you know, most people think, well, the New Testament is only thing we know about the Christ's coming kingdom or Jesus Christ.
• 17:44
  But you know, folks are surprised when they learn that the angel of the Lord was the name for the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ, who showed up to Abraham, who showed up to Gideon, you know, again and again it was Jesus Christ.
• 17:55
  He was preparing us for that time as uh and the time of redemption.
• 17:59
  He was letting us know we read about his coming kingdom all throughout the old testament.
• 18:05
  I mean, uh almost accept everything but uh Song of Solomon.
• 18:08
  You can see, and even Song of Solomon is a picture of a husband and wife, which we know is Jesus Christ and the bride, which is the church.
• 18:16
  So uh where you know when you know to look for it, it will really amaze you.
• 18:19
  Read the Bible with the anticipation of Christ's kingdom, and you will see all these different prophecies come about.
• 18:26
  Uh some of them, like for instance, Daniel 2 44.
• 18:30
  The God of heaven shall set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, and the kingdom shall not be left to other people.
• 18:36
  It shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, these gentile kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.
• 18:43
  Zechariah 14:9, the Lord shall be king over all the earth.
• 18:48
  Uh, Psalm 22, for the kingdom is the Lord's, and he rules over the nations.
• 18:53
  So if you're gonna spiritualize scripture, you say, well, spiritually, Jesus rules over the hearts of the world.
• 18:59
  But is the Lord king over all the earth right now?
• 19:03
  Uh, for instance, is is his kingdom here on this earth without end?
• 19:08
  Uh, it says in Isaiah 42, he will bring forth justice for truth.
• 19:12
  He will not fail nor be discouraged till he has established justice in the earth, and the coastland shall wait for his laws.
• 19:19
  Is the world just obviously not?
• 19:23
  Is did the coastlands wait to know about the Lord's law and his moral law and follow it?
• 19:28
  No, the world's an open rebellion against God.
• 19:31
  So uh you see it throughout the scriptures that God wants us to know.
• 19:35
  And again, up let's go up to 30,000 feet again.
• 19:38
  Jesus wins.
• 19:40
  And because he wins, his children, if you know Jesus as your savior, you win as well.
• 19:46
  We were promised to serve and reign with Jesus Christ through the millennial kingdom and then on into eternity.
• 19:52
  So all of human history is God's plan of redemption, and he teaches us that sin and rebellion only destroys ethics.
• 20:00
  It never brings the perfect utopia and the perfect relationship with God that we so long for.
• 20:06
  And the sin is always forgiven when you ask for forgiveness.
• 20:10
  You know, last year was the first year in my life that I started with Genesis 1 1 and read right straight down the Bible.
• 20:18
  You know, you've I've you know done a lot of piecemeal stuff my whole life, like I think most Christians have.
• 20:23
  And I said, you know, I I want to get the story straight.
• 20:26
  And so I started at the beginning.
• 20:28
  And when you get into like kings and you know, chronicles, and you see the the good kings and the bad kings and what they do, and then the good kings come along and do these great things, but then a bad king comes and destroys all of it, and then people repent, and then God says, okay, I'll let you do it again.
• 20:47
  And it's done and done and done and done, sort of like what you say, the wearisome diet of Jewish history.
• 20:53
  You know, when I'm reading through that, I'm wondering why do people not learn any lessons?
• 20:58
  Why do they not learn that when things are bad, um, when you repent, God restores you.
• 21:04
  Once you're restored, why does it go through that cycle again of people just don't stay with where with the repentance and stay with God?
• 21:14
  You know what?
• 21:14
  When I was growing up, and I'd I'd read through the old testament, and Israel is meant to be an example to us.
• 21:19
  The God set them up as an example.
• 21:22
  We look at Israel and we know uh us individually and nationally, of course, but individually, how spiritually we work.
• 21:28
  And I always wondered, you know, the first generation was excited and passionate.
• 21:32
  You know, they were like Joshua, we will serve the Lord as for me in my house.
• 21:35
  You know, we will serve the Lord.
• 21:37
  And then the next generation was was okay, but a little apathetic, you know.
• 21:42
  They they just weren't as passionate about the Lord.
• 21:44
  The third generation was totally apathetic.
• 21:47
  It didn't, uh, God's air.
• 21:49
  Okay, I'm going through the motions.
• 21:51
  But then the fourth generation would be an open rebellion against God.
• 21:54
  And then what happened?
• 21:55
  God would send a plague or uh an invading army, and then the people would cry out to God for help.
• 22:01
  He'd restore them.
• 22:02
  Uh, you know, they they'd repent of their sins and they'd be on fire for the Lord.
• 22:07
  And then the next generation would be apathetic, and that cycle went on and on and on.
• 22:12
  And I remember as a kid thinking, you know, Lord, what is wrong with these people you've chosen?
• 22:17
  You know, they they just can't seem to get their act together.
• 22:20
  And then now I've that I've got a few decades behind me.
• 22:22
  I'm like, oh, it's an example of how we are like that.
• 22:27
  You know, the the you know, we're initially very passionate about the Lord, but over time we get comfortable, we become apathetic, and if we come too apathetic, we can have open rebellion.
• 22:36
  I you and I, I'm sure know many Christians who started off well but now have no relationship with the Lord whatsoever.
• 22:43
  And usually then the Lord has to intervene and bring something uh terrible in our lives to get us to bend a knee, repent, and turn back to him.
• 22:51
  So again, it's all about proving that we need Jesus.
• 22:54
  We need to be plugged into God to have that passion to have that good relationship.
• 23:00
  And it's hard.
• 23:00
  I mean, we have faith based on not seeing the Lord, but he promises one day that Jesus will rule and reign from Jerusalem.
• 23:08
  The nations are going to go up and see him.
• 23:10
  The Bible prophesies he's going to be sitting on the hillside, teaching like he did, and then in the eternal state, we will finally see the Father face to face.
• 23:18
  That perfect relationship will be uh uh finally commencing because the sin will be no more.
• 23:25
  Jesus will defeat death and Hades and all sin will be gone, and we'll be back in that perfect eternal fellowship.
• 23:31
  You know, Dr.
• 23:32
  Denpenny, when you look back over history, and it seems like it's been a long time, 6,000 years, but when we're 60 million years old or 60 billion years old in the eternal state, this will sure seem like a blip on the map.
• 23:45
  Absolutely will.
• 23:46
  You know, it's interesting because um family dynasties are kind of going that cycle too that you described, you know, that people that a as like a man in the 20s and 30s works really hard to build up a dynasty and build up a lot of savings and builds a big company, passes it off to his son, who kind of does okay with it, then it goes to the grandson, and he kind of chops up the company and makes it go away.
• 24:10
  And by the next generation, it's not even there.
• 24:13
  So it even happens in the secular world, not just in the in the religious world of that, those sort of cycles.
• 24:20
  You know, you reported that there are 75 verses in the gospels and the book of Acts that that talk about the future and what terrible events will God have to bring to earth to prepare the hearts for the citizens of the Davidic Kingdom.
• 24:35
  Tell us just a few of those before we go to the break here.
• 24:38
  Okay.
• 24:38
  Well, the Lord gave us it's called the fig tree sign.
• 24:42
  In other words, when a fig tree rebutted, the Lord says, then you know that that is the era or the time period when he's returned.
• 24:49
  He was talking about Israel.
• 24:50
  When Israel becomes a nation again, that would be the significant event that would point to the fact that Jesus' return was pretty imminent.
• 24:59
  Well, what nation has come back from the dead after 1900 years?
• 25:03
  The nation of Israel, the nation of the Bible.
• 25:05
  And sometimes you'll run into people say, Well, that's an accident of history.
• 25:08
  Well, isn't God sovereign?
• 25:10
  How could that be an accident of history?
• 25:12
  The Lord promised Jeremiah 3011.
• 25:15
  Uh, for I am with you, says the Lord to save you, though I make a full end of all nations where I have scattered you.
• 25:21
  Yet I will not make a complete end of you.
• 25:23
  The very fact that we have Jews today after pogroms and holocausts and persecution shows that the Lord is keeping a remnant.
• 25:30
  He says in Isaiah 11 that he's going to regather the Jewish people a second time from the four corners of the earth and bring them back into their land.
• 25:39
  And Zechariah says he'll bring them back.
• 25:41
  They shall be my people.
• 25:42
  So, in other words, the Jewish people haven't been set aside permanently.
• 25:46
  The Lord has promises the Abrahamic covenant, the land covenant, and the Davidic covenants, all three say that the Lord's going to restore a remnant of Jewish people to salvation.
• 25:56
  To do that, he's going to put the world through the worst time in human history.
• 26:00
  It's called the tribulation.
• 26:02
  Daniel prophesies it will last seven years.
• 26:04
  And you can read in Revelation, 21 judgments will befall the earth that will devastate the earth, reduce the population to almost nothing.
• 26:12
  And then Jesus returns at the very end, and he said he would not return until the Jewish remnant cries out, Baruch Habab of Shem Adonai, which means blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.
• 26:24
  When the Jewish people finally accept Jesus as Messiah, he will return.
• 26:29
  He will rescue them, he will defeat evil, and he will set up his kingdom on this earth.
• 26:34
  Wow.
• 26:35
  Well, I guess we're all praying and hoping for that to come sooner rather than later.
• 26:39
  Amen.
• 26:40
  Yes.
• 26:41
  Everything that's going on right now in politics.
• 26:43
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• 27:51
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  Well, welcome back, everyone.
• 33:33
  Today we're talking with Dr.
• 33:34
  Nathan E.
• 33:35
  Jones about his book, The Coming Millennial Kingdom, What Life Will Be Like for Us When Jesus Reigns on Earth, God's Answer to the Failure of the Human Government.
• 33:46
  Let me tell you a little bit more about today's guest, Dr.
• 33:48
  Nathan Jones.
• 33:49
  Dr.
• 33:50
  Nathan Jones is a media evangelist, author, and longtime co-host of Christ in Prophecy at Lion Lamb and Lion Ministries with over 25 years of experience using radio, television, internet, and print to spread the gospel.
• 34:05
  Nathan has dedicated his life to helping people know Jesus and understand Bible prophecy.
• 34:10
  The director of Internet Outreach, he reached he leads global digital event evangelicism efforts, uh, produces online video content and teaches across all platforms.
• 34:23
  Using his doctor in religious studies and evangelical apologetics, Dr.
• 34:28
  Nathan Jones blends a deep theology and cutting media into two equippy believers and reach seekers around the world.
• 34:37
  Wow, what a great resume.
• 34:38
  That's just awesome, Nathan.
• 34:40
  That's just gratible that what you've been able to do in your life and for the Lord.
• 34:44
  That's just great.
• 34:45
  So welcome.
• 34:46
  Well, I don't I don't know if your audience knows, but one of your many talents is that you know how to rewrite bios to be very engaging.
• 34:53
  And folks, she actually rewrote my bio to be much more interesting than what I had.
• 34:57
  So you are quite the author.
• 34:59
  Oh, well, thank you so much.
• 35:02
  You know, your book, The Coming Millennial Kingdom really is deep theology.
• 35:06
  Before the new kingdom was established here on earth, what terrible events will God bring to the earth to prepare hearts for the kingdom, you know, beyond just the tribulation.
• 35:16
  And this also brings up the point that has become greatly discussed here in all sorts of Christian circles these days about the rapture, about you know, pre-millennial pre um tribulation, mid-tribulation, post-tribulation, not at all.
• 35:33
  Um, that you know, it's not really gonna happen.
• 35:35
  You know, God's gonna come back, and you know, there's all kinds of nonsense, I guess you could say, you know, about like interpreting that.
• 35:42
  From your perspective, lead a little, give us a little perspective on the really talk of the day these days, because I think a lot of people are saying, I'm not gonna get involved in and trying to push that bill forward because it doesn't really matter.
• 35:56
  Jesus is gonna come back and take me away, and it doesn't really matter.
• 35:59
  And it is led to a lot of people being totally disengaged with what we need to be doing in our lives these days.
• 36:07
  Shed a little insight on that for us.
• 36:10
  Okay.
• 36:10
  Um, well, I believe that the Lord promises that the church will be raptured, caught up.
• 36:16
  You can read that in First Thessalonians 4.17.
• 36:18
  The when you read caught up, that is goes back to the Greek, which is harpazzo, uh, and the Latin when the Bible is translating the Latin rapio, and we've got the transliterated into English rapture.
• 36:30
  So the word rapture is there in 1 Thessalonians 4.17, but in most of our Bibles it says caught up.
• 36:36
  And it's a prophecy that the Lord will one day come for those who are saved, his church, and catch us up before his wrath befalls the earth.
• 36:44
  He promised that in a number of verses, uh, but the best one is Revelation 3.10, which promises that he will remove the church off this earth before he pours his wrath out in the tribulation.
• 36:55
  And the Bible teaches that that it's meant to give us hope.
• 36:58
  Paul says, knowing that the Lord's coming back, and he's going to take us away before he pours his wrath on the earth, just as he did in the flood, is meant to give us hope in this day.
• 37:08
  Now I find that many of the the teachers and and other students of Bible prophecy who believe that the rapture will happen before the tribulation.
• 37:16
  I think the weight of the evidence in the Bible points to that is that they're excited that about they have three things.
• 37:22
  One, they have hope, that hope that Paul says that that the Lord is is coming back.
• 37:26
  He is not going to leave us to suffer and die at his own hands.
• 37:29
  He won't beat up his bride, but he will take us to heaven.
• 37:33
  Two, they're they're really engaged in evangelism like you and I are.
• 37:37
  We we're passionate about reaching as many people as we can as quickly as we can before the Lord returns.
• 37:43
  And three, we're dedicated to holy living.
• 37:45
  You know, the Lord, how will the Lord come back?
• 37:47
  How will the master return to the vineyard and see his workers?
• 37:51
  He should see them living holy lives and being busy at his work.
• 37:54
  So at least from my perspective, those who have hold a pre-trib rapture view, they're very passionate about those three things.
• 38:02
  But there are some that who are out there who know the Lord's coming back, but they don't really place the rapture at any particular time.
• 38:08
  They just believe the Lord's coming back and he will.
• 38:10
  And they're, I have to say, apathetic about the Lord's return.
• 38:13
  So they live their life well, nothing's really important.
• 38:16
  Eventually, Jesus will rescue us.
• 38:18
  And it's a kind of spiritual laziness, sadly.
• 38:21
  But yeah, it can affect people if they think, yeah, well, Jesus is going to just come and fix all our problems.
• 38:25
  But does he not tell us to be salt and light in this age?
• 38:28
  Does he not tell us to be engaged and in in the culture and bringing people to salvation?
• 38:34
  So I find that at least for those who are passionate about the pre-tribulational rapture of Jesus Christ, uh, they're very active and very passionate.
• 38:44
  But that doesn't mean that things won't get pretty ugly before that happens, you know.
• 38:48
  Oh, absolutely.
• 38:50
  Is that, you know, we're in that timeline?
• 38:54
  You know, because I mean, look at what happened today as we speak.
• 38:58
  You know, we're we're bombing Iran and Iran's bombing 14 other countries, and we've got this tension between Israel and the United States, and we've got tension between the United States and almost everybody else in the world.
• 39:13
  And so it doesn't, and you know, prices are up, and we've got the trans movement, we've got all the terrible things that are happening in our education.
• 39:21
  And um, it doesn't mean that things aren't going to be uh uncomfortable and not good just because Jesus is coming back, you know, that those of us, I think that he allows a lot of this suffering that allows us the time to repent and say, Lord, why is this happening?
• 39:39
  And please forgive me for my sins.
• 39:40
  I don't want to participate with this.
• 39:42
  And it's partly a cleansing period of getting as many people into his kingdom as he can.
• 39:50
  Am I looking at that through the right lens?
• 39:52
  No, you're absolutely right.
• 39:53
  Matter of fact, the apostles went up to Jesus and they asked him that very question.
• 39:57
  They asked him, what are the signs leading up?
• 40:00
  To your return.
• 40:01
  And Jesus said, number one sign, false prophets and false Christs.
• 40:05
  They'll proliferate.
• 40:06
  Wars and rumors of wars, famines, earthquakes, signs up in the sky.
• 40:11
  You know, we just had a uh and uh a lunar eclipse last night, uh, a fearful events, he said, a great persecution of his followers, Christians, and the whole world being focused on who controls Jerusalem.
• 40:24
  And he said he compared that to a woman in labor.
• 40:27
  He says that you know, a woman in labor, uh, the contractions start far apart, but as they get closer to the baby, they become the pain becomes more intense and the contractions more frequent.
• 40:37
  And so likewise, these signs, which we've had for a long time, but they would increase in frequency and intensity.
• 40:44
  I think the number one sign that most people notice is how nature continues to get crazier and crazier, many more natural disasters, earthquakes and tornadoes and and hurricanes.
• 40:54
  And the Lord said that would lead up, it would get worse and worse and worse to his return.
• 40:59
  Now, he said that if the tribulation lasted one more day than the seven years that it was going to be uh it was ordained, that there be no life left on this earth.
• 41:09
  So the the contractions are actually leading up to the second coming of Jesus Christ with the church coming behind him and watching him defeat evil.
• 41:18
  And so absolutely, we're we're living in a very difficult time.
• 41:21
  I think the contractions are really ramping up during the tribulation, they'll just be catastrophic.
• 41:26
  The world will be almost destroyed because of these disasters and and epic things that'll happen upon the earth that we read in the book of Revelation.
• 41:34
  But this is where the joy of the study of the millennial kingdom comes.
• 41:37
  This is where Dr.
• 41:38
  Tenpenny, I have people come up to me about the book and say, you know, when we finally get past the tribulation and get into what the millennial kingdom be like, it gives me so much hope that this these dark days when which are living will come to an end.
• 41:51
  We will have the perfect king.
• 41:53
  Uh, I love this particular verse, Isaiah 9, we read about it.
• 41:56
  At Christmas time, it says, For unto us a child is born, and unto us a son is given, and the government will be upon his shoulders, and his name will be called what?
• 42:06
  Wonderful counselor, mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, and of the increase of his government and peace, there will be no end upon the throne of David.
• 42:15
  This is where we get the Davidic throne, and over his kingdom to order an establishment with what?
• 42:20
  Judgment and justice from that time forward, ever and forevermore.
• 42:25
  So we know that these birth pains we're living in will come to an end.
• 42:30
  The birth is the return of Jesus Christ, and there's such a glorious time ahead of us once we get past these dark days.
• 42:39
  No, even though Jesus said, No one knows the the time nor the hour.
• 42:43
  I don't, only my Father in heaven knows.
• 42:46
  You know, I'm sure that there's many Christians that keep looking around and say, Lord, why do you tarry?
• 42:51
  Why are you waiting?
• 42:52
  What are you waiting for?
• 42:53
  What's waiting so long?
• 42:55
  Is there any biblical indication to why he is tarrying so long?
• 43:00
  Oh, yeah.
• 43:00
  You go to uh 2 Peter 3, and the Lord prophesied, or he gives the answer, why exactly that he did that.
• 43:09
  And so if we go to um 2 Peter 3 9, it says the Lord's not slow concerning his promise, as some consider slowness or slackness, but he's long-suffering towards us, and here it is, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
• 43:27
  So he would like all to come to repentance.
• 43:29
  We know, of course, all isn't going to come to repentance, but he's been patient with us.
• 43:34
  We have the very fact that you and I are alive to be saved.
• 43:37
  If the Lord had lost his patience in the first century, we wouldn't even exist.
• 43:42
  And so the very fact that the Lord is patient, he's long-suffering, he, you know, the the Lord compares his wrath as a cup, and it's a very deep cup, and his wrath slowly fills higher and higher.
• 43:54
  And once it reaches the top and overflows, well, then he's ready to act, and that's the tribulation.
• 43:59
  So when the very last person in the church age accepts Christ as Savior, then the Father will tell the Son, go and get your bride, and Jesus Christ will go into the clouds, he will call us up, we'll hear a trumpet call, and those who are saved, the church will be brought up to the Lord.
• 44:15
  The Bible says that we will get our resurrected, glorified bodies at that time, and we will go up to heaven.
• 44:21
  We will experience what's called the bima seat judgment or the judgment of the just.
• 44:26
  It's a rewards where the Lord rewards us for the work that the Holy Spirit did through us.
• 44:31
  We receive crowns, uh, we receive robes, we get new names, and we get assigned positions of authority, and we also celebrate with the Lord the marriage supper of the Lamb, a great celebration of Jesus being reunited with his followers, which is us, and then we get to prepare to return with Jesus.
• 44:50
  It says we're gonna ride on white horses.
• 44:53
  I'm not sure if those are real horses or Pegasuses or angels, but we will ride back with Jesus and we will watch him single-handedly defeat the antichrist and false prophet, this one world ruler.
• 45:04
  He's gonna throw them right into hell and the demons too.
• 45:07
  He's gonna chuck Satan into a pit.
• 45:09
  He's gonna restore the earth, he's gonna hold what's called the sheep goat judgment, where he will those who survived the tribulation will be divided, those who rejected him and taken what's called the mark of the beast and worship Satan will be sent to torments to await final judgment.
• 45:24
  But those who accepted Christ in the kingdom will uh in the tribulation will live on into the kingdom and the earthly bodies, uh, they'll rebuild the planet, uh, they'll have children.
• 45:34
  And so, yeah, a glorious time awaits us.
• 45:38
  Jesus finally sets up his authority in Jerusalem when he comes back to reign for that thousand years.
• 45:44
  What is promised to the Jewish peach people and to his church during that millennial kingdom?
• 45:50
  Okay.
• 45:51
  Well, Isaiah 11 promises that the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.
• 45:56
  In other words, there won't be any atheists, agnostics, other religions.
• 46:00
  Everybody will go see Jesus, they will know.
• 46:02
  And so he promises too that they'll get to see him, and where will they see him?
• 46:06
  Zechariah 1:16 says, I am returning to Jerusalem with mercy, my house shall be built in it.
• 46:14
  And so we learned there's many verses throughout the Old Testament where Jesus says that when he returns, he's gonna build his capital city in Jerusalem.
• 46:22
  And Dr.
• 46:22
  Tenpenny, that's why the whole world is obsessed with Jerusalem, because the satanic forces behind our world powers knows that Jesus will rule from Jerusalem.
• 46:32
  David is promised in Jeremiah 30, verse 9 in Ezekiel 34, will have be a sub-region.
• 46:38
  He'll be like the mayor of Jerusalem.
• 46:40
  There will also be a millennial temple.
• 46:42
  It's a 20 miles squared temple, not that third temple that'll be desecrated by the antichrist, but Christ's home in that kingdom, and the Jewish people, those who are saved in the tribulation, those who survived, we only know a third of them, sadly, will survive, but they will go into the kingdom and they will be a priestly people.
• 47:02
  Hosea 14 promises that he will heal their backsliding.
• 47:06
  I will love them freely.
• 47:07
  My anger is turned away from them.
• 47:09
  And one of the best verses in the Bible talking about during the kingdom, Zechariah 8 23, in those days, ten men from every language of the nation shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man, saying, Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.
• 47:26
  So Dr.
• 47:26
  Tenpenny, that was the always the purpose of the Jewish people to bring the Gentile nations to God.
• 47:32
  But they continually failed in that.
• 47:34
  Why?
• 47:34
  Because of their sin natures, because of their the desire to rebellion, the apathy that grows.
• 47:39
  But during the kingdom, they'll restore their priestly role, and they will serve the Lord, bringing the nations up to see Jesus.
• 47:46
  And again, we in our glorified eternal bodies, we are promised to rule and reign over this earth.
• 47:52
  Daniel 7 says, But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom and possess the kingdom forever.
• 47:59
  And Daniel 7, 27, the kingdom and dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people, the saints of the most high.
• 48:08
  So what do we have when we get into the kingdom?
• 48:10
  We have a perfect king.
• 48:13
  We have a purified government.
• 48:15
  So all government will be perfect and purified.
• 48:19
  The problem is that the people in the earthly bodies will still have the sin nature.
• 48:24
  And that is a lesson that will be learned at the end of the millennial kingdom, that as long as there's sin, you can have a perfect society.
• 48:32
  How will this uh reflect?
• 48:34
  And this is a question that this is a personal question I've always had about when you think about the when you look at the globe and you see where it where Jerusalem is, and then you look at South America and Chile and Cape Town, Africa, and and the far reaches of uh uh the North and South Korea and all of China.
• 48:54
  How do all of those people come to know Jesus as the king in Jerusalem?
• 49:00
  Well, at going into the kingdom, everybody will know that there is a Lord.
• 49:04
  Um Malachi 11 says, From the rising of the sun even to its going down, my name shall be great amongst the Gentiles.
• 49:11
  The very fact that Jesus is ruling and reigning over this earth, every person on the planet goes up to see Jesus uh actually it's mandated, it's called the Feast of Tabernacles.
• 49:21
  The Jewish people celebrate it today, but during the kingdom, it's promised that the feast of tabernacles will be held during that time.
• 49:29
  Zechariah 14, 16 says, It shall come to pass that everyone who is left to all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the king, the Lord of hosts, and keep the feast of tabernacles.
• 49:42
  So the Lord always wants to keep connected with us, and he'll do that during the kingdom by everybody once a year going up to see Jesus in Jerusalem.
• 49:50
  They get to hear, they get to talk with him, they have to fellowship with him.
• 49:53
  He's teaching on the hillside again.
• 49:55
  He's not distance, he's he's not by faith, but by sight, the name of
• 50:00
  Will see Jesus.
• 50:01
  And we'll be there in our glorified bodies to teach the children of the tribulation saints about Jesus as well.
• 50:07
  That's part of one of our roles, isn't just government, but teaching and administrating as well and leading the children born during that time to know Jesus as their savior.
• 50:17
  Wow.
• 50:19
  Come, Jesus, come.
• 50:20
  Amen.
• 50:22
  That is right there.
• 50:23
  You know, you've already said that when Jesus comes back, the millennial kingdom, that all failed governments will go away.
• 50:31
  When will the final judgment come on that timeline, Nathan?
• 50:36
  Okay.
• 50:36
  Well, for a thousand years, we have a kingdom of peace and righteousness and justice.
• 50:40
  The error is defined by joy.
• 50:42
  There's no war, none at all.
• 50:45
  No, no politics.
• 50:47
  We're we're wherever the the will beat our uh swords and the plow shares and our spears and a pruning hooks, Isaiah 2.
• 50:54
  And uh the animals will at peace with each other.
• 50:57
  The land, there'll be endless food.
• 50:59
  The Lord will solve homelessness and hunger, uh, long lives.
• 51:03
  Those living in their earthly bodies will live to the hundreds of years.
• 51:06
  Satan and the demonic world isn't there, they're bound.
• 51:09
  But then the Lord does something very interesting at the end.
• 51:13
  We read in Revelation 20 that he shuts them up and seals them there for a thousand years, but in the end, he will be released for a little while.
• 51:21
  And Revelation 20 tells us that Satan, once the Lord releases him from his prison, he goes out and like dropping a snake in a preschool.
• 51:30
  These innocent young people will be duped by his lies, likely the same lies from the Garden of Eden, that you can be gods one day, or you can live whatever the lust that you desire that you can't do now if we just overthrow that joker in Jerusalem.
• 51:46
  And one of the saddest stories in the Bible, Dr.
• 51:48
  Tenpenny, is that it says that that like the sands of the seas, the children are in the tribulation.
• 51:54
  Many of them will rebel, they'll join Satan, they'll march up, march up to Jerusalem called Yahweh Shema at the time, and they will try to overthrow Jesus.
• 52:04
  And since there's no war in that time, he he throws down fire and just incinerates those armies.
• 52:09
  He immediately sends Satan into the lake of fire, and that's the last final rebellion against him.
• 52:15
  He will then resurrect everybody at called the Great Right Throne Judgment.
• 52:19
  All those who've rejected him throughout history, they will be judged based on the books.
• 52:24
  The one book that matters the most is the book of life, the Lamb's Book of Life.
• 52:28
  That's the book of all those who are saved.
• 52:30
  And since their names aren't in the Lamb's book of life, they will be cast to the lake of fire.
• 52:35
  And this is where we get, I think one of the greatest verses in all the Bible.
• 52:39
  First Corinthians 15, 24.
• 52:41
  Then comes the end when he, Jesus, delivers the kingdom to God the Father.
• 52:46
  He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power, for he must reign till he's put all his enemies under his feet.
• 52:52
  The last enemy to destroy is death.
• 52:56
  Now, when all these things have been made subject to him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him, the Father, who put thing all things under Him that God may be all in all.
• 53:05
  This is the victory passage here.
• 53:07
  This is Jesus Christ defeating all his enemies, including death.
• 53:11
  And then we enter into the eternal state where God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit rule over the eternal state.
• 53:18
  There's no more sin.
• 53:20
  That relationship is restored between man and God, and we live forever with him.
• 53:26
  Amen to that, right?
• 53:27
  Amen.
• 53:28
  Mm-hmm.
• 53:29
  Just like two minutes left, Nathan.
• 53:31
  Tell us the best place to get the coming millennial kingdom.
• 53:35
  Do you sell that on your site or through your store or through your podcast?
• 53:39
  Tell people where's the best place to get that and tell us a little bit about the podcast and your online ministry.
• 53:45
  Okay.
• 53:46
  Well, if you'd like to know more about the coming millennial kingdom, uh, the book is on Coming Kingdom Books.com, a book.com.
• 53:53
  Uh, of course, you can also find it on Amazon.
• 53:56
  Uh, I serve here at Lamb and Lion Ministries, where a Bible prophecy teaching ministry.
• 54:00
  Our mission is to proclaim the soon return of Jesus Christ.
• 54:03
  You can go to our online store as well, and uh books a million, whatever uh you find a publisher, uh publishing house and a bookstore, you can find the coming millennial kingdom there.
• 54:14
  Um, if folks would like to check uh the that out again, coming kingdombook.com, then go to my website, Nathanejones.com, or if you'd like to know more about Lamb and Lion Ministries, you can just visit us there at Lamb Lion.com or Christ in Prophecy.org.
• 54:28
  You can watch all our television programs, Christ and Prophecy.
• 54:31
  We also have a radio program on 900 stations, also called Christ in Prophecy.
• 54:36
  We have the Truth Will Set You Free podcast that Pastor Vic Batista and I do.
• 54:40
  And then, of course, the radio and television program was uh was with our director Tim Moore.
• 54:45
  And uh so we've since 1980, our founder, Dr.
• 54:48
  David Reagan has had this passion to proclaim Christ's return, and we will continue to do so until the Lord calls us hope in the rapture.
• 54:56
  And that's busy.
• 54:58
  Oh, amen.
• 54:59
  We stay busy uh trying to get as many people saved before the Lord.
• 55:03
  We don't want anyone to have to live in the tribulation.
• 55:05
  That's that's a horror.
• 55:06
  And so we we call people to be saved now, give your life, surrender your life to Jesus Christ, and so be saved.
• 55:13
  You know, I listen to you on uh pray.com.
• 55:16
  Uh that's where your podcasts.
• 55:19
  And so for uh people who are listening to this and want to find a consolidation for a lot of different Christian podcasts.
• 55:24
  Pray.com is a really it's a paid app, but it's worth the money.
• 55:29
  It's really, really a good app.
• 55:30
  There's a lot to choose from there from from studies to books to to podcasts to worship services to uh it's it's a pretty complex app.
• 55:39
  I don't know how they get all that stuff in one app that they do, but it's really really good.
• 55:44
  So thank you, Nathan, for being so much uh a servant to God.
• 55:48
  You know, you will you're gonna be someday standing in front of the Lord and he's gonna say, Well done, good and faithful servant.
• 55:54
  You know, which you've dedicated your life to bringing people to Christ.
• 55:58
  So I want to thank all of our listeners who've been here with us today.
• 56:01
  This is a great show.
• 56:02
  We appreciate every single person who's been here.
• 56:05
  And with that, I will close out with one of my favorite verses from the Bible.
• 56:08
  I close all my podcasts with, whether they are live or pre-recorded, which is Romans 12, 12.
• 56:13
  Rejoice in hope, be patient in trouble, and be persistent in prayer.
• 56:17
  Remember to lean into God, trust him for everything.
• 56:20
  His timeline may not be your timeline, but he will never let you down.
• 56:24
  So I'll see you here tomorrow or the next time on AmericaOut Loud.news, and you can find Nathan's book and all of the books from our guests that have been on the show.
• 56:33
  If you go to bookstore.dr10pity.com, we've consolidated them there just for your convenience.
• 56:39
  But we always encourage people to buy directly from the authors.
• 56:42
  That's the best place for you to get your books.
• 56:44
  So thank you so much for being here today.
• 56:47
  We'll see you here tomorrow or the next time on the 10penny files.
• 56:50
  Goodbye, everybody.
• 56:51
  Have a great rest of your day.
• 56:52
  Goodbye, and God bless.