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The Ridiculous History of Atlanta's Street Names · Ridiculous History

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  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
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  Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
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  Speaker 1: much for tuning in. That's our Man of the Hour
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  Speaker 1: super producer mister Max Williams given.
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  Speaker 2: Up for Man of the two hours late, which is
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  Speaker 2: my fault. That's not a nickname. That should go to you, Max,
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: that should go to me.
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  Speaker 3: I am never late to anything.
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  Speaker 4: Have you guys ever seen me be late to anything?
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  Speaker 1: Only you only once, and you were super weird about it, well,
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  Speaker 1: at the very least, super apologetic.
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  Speaker 2: But I can't even recall the time you're talking about, Ben.
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  Speaker 2: This is a me issue. I'm traveling. I was at
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  Speaker 2: a place that was slightly unfamiliar or new to me,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: and the internet crap the bed, and then I had
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  Speaker 2: a hotel situation but it wasn't ready. So I do
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: come to y'all hat in hand from a coworking space.
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  Speaker 2: So if y'all hear some New York types I having
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  Speaker 2: meetings in the background, that's what's going on. But otherwise
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  Speaker 2: it's pretty empty right now. But I'm knowl and you're Ben,
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  Speaker 2: and you're champion and a scholar and a sport for
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  Speaker 2: putting up with my shenanigans.
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  Speaker 1: Ah, absolutely no sweat, zero perspiration, folks. That is indeed
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  Speaker 1: the legendary mister Noel Brown. They do call me Ben
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  Speaker 1: Bolin and the folks. We get on the road often
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  Speaker 1: and we have shenanigans, and we're pretty upfront about it
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  Speaker 1: when you know, Nol. There have been times I was
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  Speaker 1: stranded in Japan, her Korea, and we kept the japandit.
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  Speaker 1: I love it. Japan did. So. We are scattered across
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  Speaker 1: the world often and one thing that always takes us
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  Speaker 1: back home, all three of us, is a little town
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  Speaker 1: called Atlanta. And Guys, I gotta tell you, there's this
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  Speaker 1: old joke that really bothers a lot of us. When
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  Speaker 1: tourists say it in Atlanta, they go, wow, every street
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  Speaker 1: is named peach Tree something.
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  Speaker 2: Well, they love to make that one. And they also
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  Speaker 2: just love Hot Lanta.
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  Speaker 1: Hotlanta.
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  Speaker 2: And I don't know why it runs that's the wrong
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  Speaker 2: way as locals, but it does. And I can't put
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  Speaker 2: my finger on it. But the whole peachtree thing, there's
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  Speaker 2: some truth to that, but also not to the degree
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  Speaker 2: that people say, yeah, it feels like late late nineteen
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  Speaker 2: eighties lazy stand up.
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  Speaker 5: You know, I went to Atlanta. I wanted to go
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  Speaker 5: to Peach Tree. The cab driver said, which one? Anyway,
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  Speaker 5: what's next the my airline food?
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  Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.
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  Speaker 6: Ben.
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  Speaker 2: By the way, it's speaking of peaches and George Georgia
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  Speaker 2: Atlanta centric stuff.
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  Speaker 4: We are known elsewhere in.
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  Speaker 2: The country because there's a diner in Queens, New York,
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  Speaker 2: where I'm staying that is called the Georgia Diner, and
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  Speaker 2: it has a big old neon peach.
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  Speaker 4: Haven't been.
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  Speaker 2: Don't know what constitutes a Georgia's style diner. We're not
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  Speaker 2: exactly known for our diners. Seems like more that's a
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  Speaker 2: Queen's thing or a New York thing. But an odd
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  Speaker 2: flip if if you will.
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  Speaker 1: That is cool. I appreciate you pointed that out, because
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  Speaker 1: we know that Georgia is still called the Peach State,
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  Speaker 1: and it's it's it's weird if you've never visited our
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  Speaker 1: fair metropolis. Uh, we've got a lot of stuff going
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  Speaker 1: on where the little city in the forest that could
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  Speaker 1: but our little conturbation has a lot of interesting things
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  Speaker 1: going on street wise, in specifically now you got as
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  Speaker 1: a recall, our old office was at a place called
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  Speaker 1: Pont City Market, and if you walk just a few
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  Speaker 1: blocks away from where that is, you can take a
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  Speaker 1: left on a street that will be called Briarcliffe on
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  Speaker 1: the same street. If you turn right, you're in a
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  Speaker 1: whole different place called Morland. It is the same actual street.
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  Speaker 4: You know, Ben, you may have seen this meme as well.
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  Speaker 2: I think it made national memes spheres, not just local,
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  Speaker 2: though I do love local memes. Where it was a
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  Speaker 2: picture of like the New York City grid, you know,
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  Speaker 2: and you know, it's very makes a lot of sense,
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  Speaker 2: and then a picture of Atlanta and the nonsensic called
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  Speaker 2: street arrangements that we have, and then the New York
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  Speaker 2: one said because you know, of course, and Atlanta was like, because.
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  Speaker 1: You and this obviously, even now as we're recording on
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  Speaker 1: June fourth, twenty twenty six, it can be confus as
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  Speaker 1: heck to people who are not familiar with this urban
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  Speaker 1: design quirk. If we're being diplomatic, especially imagine you're a
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  Speaker 1: tourist Noel back in the let's say nineteen seventies.
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  Speaker 2: God forbid, right for GPS before smartphones.
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  Speaker 1: Right right, and you inevitably will end up at the
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  Speaker 1: wrong place in the city. So Our question is, while
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  Speaker 1: the hubbub bub it turns out that there is a
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  Speaker 1: story behind this, it is as disturbing as it is ridiculous.
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  Speaker 1: Before we continue, bro, I know we all hate to
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  Speaker 1: do this with outsiders, but we have millions of people
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  Speaker 1: tuning in. Can we just tell them about the Peachtree thing? Oh?
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  Speaker 2: We must, And by the way, you know, to kind
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  Speaker 2: of go against the whole it's not that big a
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  Speaker 2: deal that we were saying earlier.
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  Speaker 4: You mentioned our last office at Pont City Market.
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  Speaker 2: The one before that was definitely on Peachtree out in Buckhead.
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  Speaker 2: So according to the Atlanta History Center, seventy one streets
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  Speaker 2: in Atlanta are named with some form of the word Peachtree.
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  Speaker 2: And that's a lot. Okay, maybe we downplaated it a touch,
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  Speaker 2: a lot of street. Let's get there. The most famous
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  Speaker 2: Peachtree on the list is, of course, you guessed, at
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  Speaker 2: Peachtree Street, which runs from five Points, not to be
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  Speaker 2: confused with little five points different downtown. Yeah, Atlanta through
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  Speaker 2: Midtown and it is just a couple of blocks after
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  Speaker 2: you enter the neighborhood of Buckhead, which is almost like
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  Speaker 2: its own kind of community in a way. So this
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  Speaker 2: makes the street, one of the longest in Atlanta, running
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  Speaker 2: around six point two miles.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and since, as we said, Georgia is known as
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  Speaker 1: the Peach State, to the point where if you have
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  Speaker 1: a voting sticker anytime you vote in an Atlanta election,
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  Speaker 1: your sticker has a Peach audit and it says I voted.
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  Speaker 3: Uh so, no, it's I secured my I did after
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  Speaker 3: passing a bunch of non controversial voting laws.
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  Speaker 2: Max, I'm gonna give you a minute to dig this
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  Speaker 2: up or you might know it off the top of
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  Speaker 2: your head.
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  Speaker 4: But have we done a Georgia episode in our states? Series?
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  Speaker 4: Have many? We only have one.
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  Speaker 3: We only have one state left.
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  Speaker 4: Which is what Yeah, New Hampshire.
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  Speaker 1: Max phones.
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  Speaker 6: Drops in the knowledge just for you.
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  Speaker 4: So there we go.
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  Speaker 2: What were our previous Georgia episodes? If you don't mind
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  Speaker 2: me asking, I will go back perfect.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, great, we've got a list going courtesy of the
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  Speaker 1: legendary Maxwell Williams. We also know, okay, Georgia is called
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  Speaker 1: the Peach State, and we could all be forgiven for
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  Speaker 1: thinking all these roads named peach Tree is just a
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  Speaker 1: case of well meaning branding gone overboard. But there's so
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  Speaker 1: much more to the story you know, Nola, as you
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  Speaker 1: and I were talking about a few years ago off air.
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  Speaker 1: Like every other town in the United States, Atlanta is
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  Speaker 1: built on indigenous land.
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  Speaker 4: That's right.
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  Speaker 2: In Atlanta's case, the land belongs to the Muscogee peoples,
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  Speaker 2: also known as the Creek. The Atlanta History Center once
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  Speaker 2: again it's the Muscogee had a settlement.
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  Speaker 4: This isn't their words.
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  Speaker 2: The Atlanta History Center folks at the convergence of Peach
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  Speaker 2: Tree Creek and the Chattahoochee River or the Hooch as
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  Speaker 2: we like to call it, shooting the Hooch, that's when
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  Speaker 2: you go tubing way.
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  Speaker 1: I never knew how much it.
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  Speaker 2: Meant to be that muddy water. It learned how to swim,
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  Speaker 2: and I learned who I was about.
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  Speaker 1: It little, just a little about love, just a little bit,
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  Speaker 1: just like second base, a little oh no.
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  Speaker 4: Just hand stuff.
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  Speaker 5: Uh.
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  Speaker 2: The Muscogee word for the site is let me share
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  Speaker 2: my best here pakanahuy Pakanahuili, which translates roughly into English
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  Speaker 2: as standing peach tree.
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  Speaker 1: And please note some sources will attribute this to the Cherokee. However,
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  Speaker 1: for our purposes, we're going with our friends at the
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  Speaker 1: AHC Atlanta History Center. As they tell us, the Muscogee
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  Speaker 1: peoples used a series of well established paths for long
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  Speaker 1: distance traveling, and one of those led east from standing
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  Speaker 1: peach Tree the English translation, until it terminated at a
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  Speaker 1: trail of the Muscogee peoples. So it kind of makes
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  Speaker 1: sense that people would keep using the original names as
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  Speaker 1: the city expanded. But this also means that the idea
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  Speaker 1: to name streets and trails after peach trees is older
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  Speaker 1: than the city of Atlanta.
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  Speaker 4: You know, I think that's cool.
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  Speaker 2: Actually, at least it means that because Atlanta is known
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  Speaker 2: for not being the best steward of its own history
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  Speaker 2: in terms yeah, at least in terms of architecture and
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  Speaker 2: just kind of bulldozing the old stuff and building up
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  Speaker 2: some kind of you know, crappy news stuff. But this
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  Speaker 2: is a good example of like, you know, carrying the
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  Speaker 2: the legacy of of of of pre Atlanta through you know,
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  Speaker 2: our current history.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, go in, go in next, go in hard. I
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  Speaker 1: need a hot take.
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  Speaker 3: All right, Well it's it's it's not a hot take.
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  Speaker 3: It's actually an utter buzz kill. So get ready for this.
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  Speaker 3: So how the pitch dock works is it's more the
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  Speaker 3: not going to have that tracks these things. It's more
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  Speaker 3: to keep track of, like when we've mentioned the state,
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  Speaker 3: basically being like, we don't have to do an episode,
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  Speaker 3: so only had one Georgia one in there, which was
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  Speaker 3: MLK and Co Cola, But we also have other episodes
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  Speaker 3: about when that's when the tree owned itself.
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  Speaker 4: History is centric. Okay, well those are some good ones.
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  Speaker 3: Though way more than I have right here. Off I
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  Speaker 3: can find quickly, but we definitely have more than one
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  Speaker 3: episode about Georgia.
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  Speaker 1: And we greatly appreciate you. Let's do the sound cue
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  Speaker 1: Max with the ves second time here we go, all right, well, no, Max,
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  Speaker 1: choose one. So all of the Atlanta streets cold Peach
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  Speaker 1: Tree today or some derivation thereof, can attribute their names
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  Speaker 1: to Peachtree Creek. This creek flows southwest through Dacab and
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  Speaker 1: Fulton Counties and then it joins the Chattahoochee River just
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  Speaker 1: south of Vinings. And the history here gets pretty ugly.
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  Speaker 1: We got to go to the War of eighteen twelve,
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  Speaker 1: and we promise we're going to the future with us one.
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  Speaker 4: Do we have to? We have to do the War
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  Speaker 4: of eighteen It's such a bomber.
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  Speaker 1: It's our remit it is a bummer.
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  Speaker 2: All right, all right, let's do it. You see, during
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  Speaker 2: the War of eighteen twelve, as the AHC puts it,
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  Speaker 2: the white settlers of Georgia were in direct conflict with
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  Speaker 2: the Muscogee tribe, who leagued up with the Brits against
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  Speaker 2: the United States, and the State of Georgia decided to
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  Speaker 2: erect a series of bases forts, if you will, from
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  Speaker 2: which to fight the Muscogee onslaughts, And that included Fort Peachtree,
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  Speaker 2: which was built on the high ground that overlooked Standing Peachtree.
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  Speaker 4: Remember that original one that had the native name.
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  Speaker 1: That's uh yeah, paka Nahu.
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  Speaker 4: There you go, Standing.
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  Speaker 1: Peachtree, Standing Peach Tree. And fast forward one year, these
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  Speaker 1: folks completed work on a pre existing trail from the Muskogee.
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  Speaker 1: This trail connected Fort Peachtree to Fort Daniel. There was
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  Speaker 1: a similar outpost at the ignominiously named Hog Mountain in
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  Speaker 1: Gudet County. Sorry, I being a child, I know, but
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  Speaker 1: they copied the stuff that they copied, the trail, marking
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  Speaker 1: that the Muskogee peoples had already established hundreds, if not
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  Speaker 1: thousands of years before. This is a relatively insignificant Road.
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  Speaker 1: It eventually becomes called Peachtree Road. And if you go through,
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  Speaker 1: of course, the western expansion, you will see that white
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  Speaker 1: settlements were pressing for more and more indigenous land. Native
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  Speaker 1: territories were AHC is going to tell you they were obtained,
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  Speaker 1: but we can say it correctly. They were stolen through
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  Speaker 1: a bunch of fake treaties or fraudulent treaties.
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  Speaker 4: Dirty deals done dirt cheap.
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  Speaker 1: Not made in good faith, for sure, and the first
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  Speaker 1: Treaty of Indian Springs was signed in eighteen twenty one.
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  Speaker 1: This resulted in the Muskogee Nation seeding four million acres
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  Speaker 1: east of the Flint River that includes the future site
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  Speaker 1: of what we call Atlanta today. By the end of
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  Speaker 1: eighteen twenty seven, all Muskogee territory within the state of
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  Speaker 1: Georgia had been in Uncle Sam's opinion, lost yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And then in eighteen thirty seven, the southern terminal of
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  Speaker 2: the Western and Atlantic Railroad Companies or railroad lines were
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  Speaker 2: constructed about seven miles from that standing Peachtree location and
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  Speaker 2: just a hand for scy hop skip and a jump
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  Speaker 2: a stone's throw from the end of the peach Tree trail,
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  Speaker 2: and as the rail railway workers along with settlers and traders,
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  Speaker 2: began to set up camps and homes and you know,
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  Speaker 2: soon more permanent businesses. It became sort of a settlement
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  Speaker 2: in the town. This is when I believe it was
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  Speaker 2: referred to as Terminus, which you'll recall any fans of
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  Speaker 2: The Walking Dead from when it was good, is what
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  Speaker 2: they referred to Atlanta as, or at least there was
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  Speaker 2: that encampment that they came across, you know, our our
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  Speaker 2: heroes at the time called Terminus.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that part of The Walking Dead also filmed
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  Speaker 1: here in Georgia. Terminus.
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  Speaker 4: The original need had it referred to the railway.
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  Speaker 1: Etymology of it is that that's where the railway ends.
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  Speaker 4: Met Oh, got it ended? Okay? I thought it was
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  Speaker 4: like that makes sense, Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
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  Speaker 1: We know that in eighteen forty three this area becomes
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  Speaker 1: called Martha'sville.
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  Speaker 2: Martha'sville sounds so quaint and homey. In eighteen forty five,
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  Speaker 2: Martha'sville underwent a name change again to become Atlanta.
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  Speaker 1: They love changing names here, we do.
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  Speaker 2: What was the way I've always I think we've maybe
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  Speaker 2: talked about this is Atlanta a reference to like.
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  Speaker 1: Atalantas it's a reference to at Atlanta.
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  Speaker 4: Which is another Native people.
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  Speaker 1: It's a reference to Greek mythological huntress at Atlanta.
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  Speaker 2: And another version of that, I think, according to an
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  Speaker 2: engineer by the name of j Edgar Thompson, was the
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  Speaker 2: Atlanta came from the feminine form of Atlantic and had
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  Speaker 2: to do with the references to Western and Atlantic lines.
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  Speaker 2: So again similar to what they're trying to accomplish with Terminus,
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  Speaker 2: but maybe a little less severe sounding.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, a little less brutalism atam Mala. And yeah,
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  Speaker 1: as we mentioned, the Western and Atlantic railroad, huge deal
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  Speaker 1: for this growing city. Atlanta itself is somewhat anomalous in
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  Speaker 1: the history of cities because it does not have coastal territory. Right,
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  Speaker 1: It's not by the sea, where in a time when
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  Speaker 1: most people were trading via the ocean, right or via
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  Speaker 1: large navigable rivers like the Mississippi the Chattahoochee was okay
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  Speaker 1: for a minute, but right now I have to tell
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  Speaker 1: you guys, Atlanta's historical trade routes are not rivers, they're
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: not oceans. They're railroads, and then later they become airports.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: We have the busiest airport on the planet. Depending on
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: how you you.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Knowatoya Jackson Industrial Spaceport. Oh Man, just kidding, that's just
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: my favor location tag for it. If you ever go,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: it's Hartsfield Jackson International Airport. But I love LaToya Jackson Spaceport.
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  Speaker 1: And as the as Marthasville becomes Atlanta, it also becomes
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  Speaker 1: again pre Civil War, one of the most vital economic
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  Speaker 1: crossroads in the region. Its most well known street. As
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  Speaker 1: we said, established first as a trail by the Muskogee peoples,
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  Speaker 1: it has become one out of seventy one of the
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  Speaker 1: most famous streets in the region. Time goes on, right,
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  Speaker 1: and some of these streets doubtlessly get renamed either in
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: honor of notable locals or decisions by the local population,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: or as a result of new construction. And to be
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: fair so that we don't sound dismissive or rude, this
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: happens in pretty much every single American city. Also be
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: a really sweet way to commemorate people who have made
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: a positive impact on your town, your neighborhood, your state,
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  Speaker 1: your country. It's symbolic, but it's pretty cool. Mayors in
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  Speaker 1: a special love this.
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  Speaker 2: But you know, I mean, as helpful as it might
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  Speaker 2: be just logistically speaking to maybe just have one street
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  Speaker 2: named Peachtree. Changing the names of the other seventy wouldn't
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  Speaker 2: just be an inconvenience at this point, it would also
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  Speaker 2: be expensive. Think of all the infrastructure, the signage, Think
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  Speaker 2: of the signage.
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  Speaker 1: You haven't thought of the signage, Think of everybody having
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  Speaker 1: to change their address with any recurring bill. As a result,
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  Speaker 1: we're kind of stuck with what we've got at the moment,
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  Speaker 1: at least for now. And we're saying at least for now,
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  Speaker 1: because Atlanta has a deep, deep history with changing the
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  Speaker 1: names of streets, and they have this deep history not
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  Speaker 1: for particularly noble reasons.
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  Speaker 4: It's not for funzies.
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  Speaker 1: It's not for funzies. I wish it was for funsies.
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  Speaker 4: No, it's not.
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  Speaker 2: It has to do with the stitutional racism.
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  Speaker 1: There's a guy named Leon Epplin who back in nineteen
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  Speaker 1: eighty five wrote something called Race and the Shaping of
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  Speaker 1: twentieth Century Atlanta. And one of the pull quotes you've
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: got to hear from this one ridiculous historians, is this,
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  Speaker 1: there are virtually no major decisions that are made in
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  Speaker 1: the city of Atlanta that do not have a racial
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  Speaker 1: factor built into it. Everything has a racial component.
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  Speaker 4: Yep.
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  Speaker 2: This is especially true during Atlanta's rebuilding after you know,
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  Speaker 2: it got burned to the ground when the South lost
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  Speaker 2: the Civil War, when you know, the Sherman's March to
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  Speaker 2: the Sea and all of that good stuff, and the
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: echoes of this, as you put it, Ben in the
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: lovely outline that you created for this topic, coordinated segregation
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: stayed with us to this day.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed, nol history is a palimpsest. Atlanta is no exception.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: So after the Civil War, we see a lot of
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: black African American residents begin moving to Atlanta in large numbers,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: and they're pursuing opportunities, you know, work, school, community. A
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: lot of folks are also honestly hoping to connect with
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: family members they were separated from during chattel slavery. There
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: are new city dwellers who are arriving at this time.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: They create their own communities, neighborhoods like Reynoldstown, which we
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: all love to hang out in. It was founded in
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: eighteen seventy by former slaves working for the railroad. So
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: when this influx of black home and business owners move
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: closer to the white areas, the white residents not all
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: of them, but some of them, to be honest, a
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: lot of them. They work to create racial distance. This
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: obviously comes with the real world's realities of hate crime, oppression,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: racial violence. But there's another aspect to it that fascinates Noel,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Max and myself, folks. It is this superficial, symbolic, often
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: cartoonish case of just naming the same street twice.
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: What right, yeah, and go ahead and put it out there.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Now, there's a dang going on, some kind of alarm
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: somewhere in this co working space. I think Max is
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: going to do his darnness to get it out. But
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: if you hear it, that's what it is, and I
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: do apologize. But according to Paul Krater, also of the AHC,
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: the Atlanta History Center, he is their vice president of
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Collections and Research Services, and says that there are multiple
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: examples of this thing that you're talking about, Ben, the
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: cartoonish renaming of streets. For example, in the nineteen sixties,
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: part of Southeast Atlanta's Whiteford Avenue I used to live
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: off of Whiteford was changed to Memorial Terrace.
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: I love an avenue versus a terrace.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Not the whole street, but just a part of it,
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: which references back to what you were talking about there
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: at the top about how like, why is it that
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: on one side of the of the tracks it's called
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: one thing and then it changes to something else. Well,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: here's why. I not that's unusual in other cities. But
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: it is a little bit wide rife, as our buddy
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: franklised to say here in Atlanta.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, wide rife. And I didn't know that we both
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: lived on Whiteford at a time, but I do remember, Hey,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: we hung out at your house.
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: Actually it was on It was just it was like off.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: It was like, you know, right there behind where the
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Kroger is, kind of near a little five points.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: I yeah, it's happened to all of.
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: Us lived off of Whiteford as well. I'm sitting here,
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: I'm like, there's a couple of streets named Ford something.
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: Now I has wife heard it?
• 24:02
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, got two o's Weirdly enough, ed r
• 24:07
  Speaker 6: pal Creator's explanation for this is distressing, bonkers and pretty sad,
• 24:15
  Speaker 6: he notes.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Quote in the past, white citizens of the city decided,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: through official channels to change the name of the street
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: because they did not want their neighborhoods to be associated
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: with African Americans who are moving in areas close to them,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: and Creter traces us back to nineteen thirteen.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Wait, so hence white food where you think we might
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: have done something about that one by now, But yeah, no,
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: palimpsest meaning a manuscript that gets written on top of
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: and then erased and then written over and over again.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: That is certainly what Atlanta is and history. So Creator
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: traces this whole kerfuffle back to nineteen thirteen when he
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: says the first sign the modern racial discrimination in housing began.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: We've talked, certainly on this show and our sister podcasts
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: stuff you missed distric Class, plenty of episodes on this
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: concept of redlining, you know, housing zoning that is inherently
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: racially motivated, and of course redistricting, gerrymandering, you know, as
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: far as changing voting blocks that can also be pretty
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: darn racists. And now we just had a situation in
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: the United States where we had some almost reverse jerrymandering
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: to try to give some power back to some you know,
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: minority communities that was then overturned by the pretty problematic
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Supreme Court.
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: That we've keep sitting at the moment, right.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, agreed, we also know that nineteen thirteen is
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: the same year where an Atlanta City Council member named
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Claude Ashley tries to segregate neighborhoods by race create something
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: called the Ashley Ordinance. This meant that the city would officially,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: as a governmental power, ensure that various blocks will be
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: segregated again by race. Thankfully, just a few years later,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: this policy made its way to Georgia's Supreme Court. Quick
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: backstory for anybody not familiar with the US. All of
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: the United States, they have to follow the federal Supreme Court,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: but each state also has its own Supreme Court, and thankfully,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Georgia's Supreme Court ruled this Ashley Ordinance unconstitutional. It was
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: the first attempt to codify segregation. But Creator notes if
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: an official policy did not do the trick, these powerful
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: white decision makers do not hesitate to go around the
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: law through various means. They're waging a gariea nimbi war
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: in local politics and business circles. They would to make
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: sure that their spaces, their addresses are not associated with
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: black people.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Right, some of these white residents were absolutely scandalized by
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: the thought of having to have the same street name
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: on their mailbox as a black family, even if that
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: house was just a couple of blocks away on the
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: very same street. So to these folks, that few blocks
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: away was may as well have been on the moon
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: and should have been considered, as far as they were concerned,
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: a different neighborhood, one that they would never enter, the
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: bad neighborhood, right, and it should be reflected as such
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: in any and every way possible, including address and map designation.
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: Right, yeah, absolutely, I mean not.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: That like neighborhoods aren't still a divisive thing, right, Like
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: neighbor I mean, you know, it's yeah, none of this
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: stuff is like particularly it has gone away. And you
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: could argue that in at and other parts of the country,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: of course, that there are still racial divides in neighborhoods,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: though some of them maybe are less imposed by government
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: and maybe more historical. Because of these things, these these families,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: you know, they tend to gravitate towards these neighborhoods where
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: they were forced to live. And then generationally those are
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: the types of people that live in those neighborhoods.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: And now they're being gentrified.
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: Well, that's also true, and that's its own problem.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: Because it's like you put people there in the first
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: place because you didn't want to be around them, and
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, now where they live is
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: more valuable to you. And by you, I just mean
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: you know, folks in power, and typically that means white folks.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Shout out to the belt line.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: With shout out to the Beltline. And to be fair,
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: they have they have seemed to begin to follow through
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: with some of the affordable housing initiatives they promised. But
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: we'll see proofably in the putting Anybody's not from Atlanta.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: I am Jack's lack of.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Optimism understandable, and I'm not I'm just being Devil's advocate
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: and saying that there is I know some people who
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: work in city planning here in Atlanta and are down,
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: you know, do nonprofit work, and I have talked to
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: some folks that seem to think that there are there
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: is some good work being done in that direction by
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: good folks. But in general, the belt Line is this
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: connected rail lines that have been repurposed to connect different
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: parts of the city, and of course it becomes like
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: a shopping corridor, sort of like the High Line in
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: New York City, and the idea was that it would
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: be a great connector and a great way to connect
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: different neighborhoods. So now there's a part of the belt line.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: I believe it's the West side belt Line that is
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: not gentrified yet, and it's a real stark contrast to
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: the part that's been being developed for many years.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: And I'd love to shout out Ryan Gravell, the great
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: architect of Atlanta's beltline. He came up with this while
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: he was studying at my alma mater, Georgia Tech.
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: Oh cool, I didn't know that.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And look, of course, the practice of an
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: idea is rarely as good or as ambitious as the
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: germination of an idea. But the beltline is awesome. I
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: think it's fair to say that we are all big
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: fans and we hope you get some time to hang
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: out there. It's very big in Atlanta to have a
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: walkable environment. These folks back during the back during the day,
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: these racist folks had to be careful, or they had
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: to at least pretend that rebranding street names was not
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: due to racism. They didn't want to play their hand
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: too openly. They didn't want to put their ulterior motives
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: on the written record. So if you look at a
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: lot of the documents pertaining to these name changes, you're
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: not going to see any genuine reason. Given we got
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: to go back to our pal creator. He was speaking
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: with CBS News and he said, look, this doesn't mean
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: there aren't examples. There could be examples in newspapers or
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: other documents from the time that say this explicitly.
• 31:12
  Speaker 5: But I.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Can only point to the documents that I have found
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: that certainly imply that the reasons for these street name
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: changes were because of racial discrimination on the part of
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: white people. And a lot of other experts agree.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: So the Apex Museum president and CEO, a guy named
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Dan Moore Junior, confirms that these things would happen pretty regularly,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: these types of shenanigans. He notes that the white residents,
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: even if they were the minority in their area, would
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: often go cry into the city council, you know, waving
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: around petitions demanding that a street's name be changed.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and there are again plenty of weird examples that
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: stay with us today. As we said at the top,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Moorland Avenue and Boulevard, two streets that frame historic Reynolds
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Town from the west and East. They have their names
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: changed to Briarcliffe Road and Monroe Drive as you cross
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: poncet Lyon Avenue. Other streets where you can see the
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: same thing include Parkway and Charles Allen Drives, Central Park Place,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Argone Avenue, and Cortland Street. Cortland Street changes to Juniper
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Street the further north you get. And while the official
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: records of the time may never explicitly state this, fellow
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: ridiculous historians, there is literally no other reason than racial discrimination.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: That's it. That's the only reason you would go through
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: this stupid inconvenience.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Well right, and it wasn't just limited to city streets.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Even the highways and byways and the interstates got affected.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: In the nineteen fifties while planning Interstate twenty, Mayor William B. Hartsfields,
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: who the spaceport is named after, said that he envisioned
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: this corridor, which is the main east west interstate in Atlanta,
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: as a quote boundary two of the biggest broadest air
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: quotes possible between the white and Negro communities.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry you had to do that quote.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: No, it's okay, man, Its history and it is ridiculous.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: And we want to be accurate, and eventually this situation escalating.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: So these white residents were no longer satisfied with name
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: changes on the street Memorial Terrorists, Whiteford, what have you.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: It wasn't enough for them. So they went back to
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: the mayor, the city council, the other policy makers, and
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: they had a new pitch. They said, build us physical barriers.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: We have black people living the same streets as the fights,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: and we've got to we've got to fix this. So
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: the city erected literal roadblocks, or they would stop paving
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: a road. And that's part of why Atlanta has, especially
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: around I twenty, Atlanta has a lot of weird, dead
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: end streets. It's because these folks were literally telling the
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: city to block the roads.
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, blockades.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: Something called the Atlanta Wall was actually built in nineteen
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: sixty two, approved by the mayor at the time. Ivan
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: Allen Junior has got a lot of roads named after
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: him as well. This wooden barrier divided the white in
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: the black neighborhoods of Cascade Heights and it's just you know,
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: you point up been utterly petty.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so petty, it's the same street. Luckily, this debacle
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: gets citywide. The national attention. It gets so much opprobrium
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: the city of Atlanta at this point and beat me here,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Max is looking like a bunch of Grade A assholes.
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, thank you.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: And again when you look at the map, compare it
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: to a city with the planning that was laid out
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: based on ergonomics.
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: I guess it's for lack of a better.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Term, And you look at Atlanta that whole you know,
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: fu thing really does make sense and it's few black people.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately, this is true, and it happened all around town.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: We're happy to report that after just seventy two days
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: of public outcry, the infamous Atlanta Wall of Cascade Heights
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: was torn down. But again, palimpsess right, that's why you'll
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: still run into odd name changes and weird dead end streets. Luckily,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: experts like or Alfha mentioned Dan Moore can tell us
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: that some streets in Atlanta have been renamed to honor
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: prominent non racist people, civil rights leaders especially. This makes sense, right,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: We're the home of doctor Martin Luther King Junior.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Of course, and it's there as well as Ebenezer Baptist Church,
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: and you know, prominently displayed signage and plaques, and you know,
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: there is a lot of good work done to honor
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: the history of Atlanta that surrounds the civil rights movements,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: and a lot of things that are the antithesis of
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: the kinds of petty racist acts that we're talking about
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: in today's episode. More notes. If you're looking for street
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: names now, you ought to understand who those people are.
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: Joseph E.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: Boone, Lowry, Donald Lee Hallowell. Those are street names that
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: mean something, So do yourself a favor in Google all
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: these folks. They've got stories in and of themselves that matter.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: We also know that at least three Atlanta streets have
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: been renamed. They were formerly Confederate. They had the word
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Confederate somewhere in the names they were. Official story is
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: these streets like Confederate Avenue. I know you and I
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: spent some time there. They were not named after the
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Confederacy of the Civil War, but they were named after
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: a nursing home for Confederate veterans in the area. Still,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: this reminded a lot of people of some very nasty stuff,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: So we want to shout out a grassroots campaign called
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Neighbors for a new name. They successfully, Just like those
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: racist dudes earlier they successfully went to the city council
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: and the mayor and they said, please change these street names.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen, some pretty interesting stuff happened.
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: That's right.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: In twenty eighteen, Mayor Keisha lance Bottom signed a bill
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: that officially renamed a.
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: Lot of these streets.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: In November twenty nineteen, Confederate Avenue became United Avenue, East
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: Confederate Avenue became East United Avenue, and Confederate Court became
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Trestletree Court for the nearby apartment complex.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: Oh and speaking of the Confederacy, hoof Stone Mountain. Okay, folks,
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: we know, we know, we know, a.
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: Bit of a blemish.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, beautiful park, beautiful mountain, but the tattooed
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: on the side not good.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there is still Jesse. No, folks, this is a
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: letter from home, from us to you. The city of Atlanta,
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: which we love dearly, is arguing to this day about
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: whether to replace the sculpture of Confederate soldiers. Was something
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: more fitting and a lot of people wanted to be.
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: Outcast South Scots something to say, South.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: Scott something to say.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: And the third yes, yes, the motion passes weekend.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Thank you enough for tuning in this is obviously a
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: hyper local story for us, because we, like you, were
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: baffled when we realized there were so many Peachtree streets
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: and there were so many strange streets that seem to
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: change their names.
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: You know what, hyper local to us.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: But I think a lot of this stuff really does
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: fit into the greater history of this country and Atlanta.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: You know, it looms large in other ways that we
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: sometimes living there take for granted.
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: So we hope you enjoyed it.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we hope you visit us sometime soon. This is
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: one of the is one of the most inviting cities
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: in all of the United States. We've got some non
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: racist Atlanta street origin stories that we're going to share
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: with you in the future. Things we didn't get to episode,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: but we on an end by giving you one quick
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: off the books locals guide to Atlanta. Folks, no matter
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: how you get here, whether you land on a plane
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: at Heartsfeld or whether you drive in, you have to
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: realize everybody is going to speak to you as though
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: they are vaguely related to Okay, how includes us, that
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: includes the three of us?
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: Is there any maybe I'm missing something?
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: Is this like about like language, like vernacular or just
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: a hospitality and.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Just the approachable thing. You're in a line at a
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: gas station or a grocery store, the person in front
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: of you or behind you is going to say something
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: like that's true. Oh it's mister shoes, And they're not
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: saying your shoes are bad.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: There's just I think maybe the kind of thing that
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: folks from the East might be taken aback by. I
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: was just going to be referred to as kind of
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: like a certain familiarity.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: Familiarity again, like everybody is vaguely related to you. I
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: always tried to warn especially my Eastern European or Scandinavian friends,
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: you know, they think it's weird to talk on an elevator.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: They don't understand that it's rude here at Atlanta not
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: to say something like noh, you know, wo is it
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: really floor fourteen and then have a little chuckle.
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: Precisely.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for tuning in, folks, Big big
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: thanks to our super producer mister Max Williams. I've been
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: your research associate for this episode. Big big thanks, by
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: the way to you, mister Noel Brown, in particular, you're
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: on the road and we talked about this off air
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: and you were like, Ben, no, we can't publish a classic.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: We got to get the word to the people.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: We gotta do it, man, We got to spread the
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: good word of our hometown out to the good people
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: of the ridiculous history community. And you know, thankfully, if
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: I'm going to give a thanks or a shout out,
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: it's to whoever made that beep go away, because it
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: did seem to subside. I think it was some sort
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: of alarm, not that kind of be Max, not that
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: kind of be Max. It was much more of a clason,
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: a bit of a like a like an air raid siren, an.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Alarm clock or yeah, if it was.
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: An alarm, guys, or a fire drill thing.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: It was very lackluster because it was just kind of incessant,
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: and you know, I didn't have an urgency, just very obnoxious.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: But it did go ay, so hopefully he didn't have
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: to deal with that too much. But y'all, thanks for
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: working with me, and thanks to everybody for making this
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: happen and everybody out there for tuning in. Thanks to Johnava, Trickling,
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: the quist A, j Moahammad Jacob's the Puzzler, the Quister.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: The Incessant beep of our hearts and heads overdue to
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: reappear soon. Spoilers, we may have the legendary see you
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: on the case Pegram returning for a future conversation and
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: true story.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: I'm definitely gonna have the fine folks over a ridiculous
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: crime on for another collab episode.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, if you dig us, you will dig
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: those rude, rude dudes. Also, big thanks to Chris rossiotis
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: Eve's Jeffcoat here in spirit ed no again, man, Thanks
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: to you. It's such a rop to look at it.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: They have a history and think of all the places
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: that you and Max and I have visited in person.
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: All the places we'll go. Thanks to you, Ben for
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: the research on this one, and we'll see you next time, folks.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.