Latest / The M&M Experience / M and M EXTRA May 22, 2026 Colbert out, memories of Carson -- Late Night Roundtable

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M and M EXTRA May 22, 2026 Colbert out, memories of Carson -- Late Night Roundtable · The M&M Experience

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to a meeting of the minds crafted from decades
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: of talk show experience, an extension of the magic they've
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: created together on radio in the phenomenon called M and
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: M Hot topics in the News and wisdom from LFE.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: It's Mark Davis and Mike Gallagher. This is eminem Extra.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: I wish you could have heard us arguing about who
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: was going to get to go first today on a
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Friday episode of eminem Extra. No egos around here. I'm Mike.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: I'm that part of the M. He's Mark. He's the
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: other M. And of course he wants to start now
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: every day you started yesterday? Why would you get to
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: start again today?
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: Because I'm starting out with this because I told everybody
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: I would. It's the book you sent me. It's the
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: Love Johnny Carson, book by the guy who sort of
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: was almost a stalker.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Because but I can start. I can start the show
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: and then hand it over to you quick. Why do
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: you have to do this? You can?
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: And I suppose here that you have. I suppose, but
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: what I said, what I said, so graciously I'll start
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: today because I want to start with how kind you
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: were gracious? Just send this book Mike essentially told me
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: to pretty well screw myself because he's starting and that's
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: all starting to.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Be you started yesterday. Look, look I have, I got PTSD.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: I was once thrown in to a radio show in
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: New York City with a co host who didn't want
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: to be there, didn't want to be there with me,
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: made my life a living hell. It was one of
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: the worst about two years, maybe year and a half
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: of my life. I'm not mentioning any names, but it
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: was rough. And so now I get to share a
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: podcast and a YouTube show with somebody who I happened
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: to adore. So it's I don't want to have any
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: bad feel we share this. You ain't top billing. I
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: ain't top billing. Now you are going to be here
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: by yourself next week, which I love as we need
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: we need your an AUSO show.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: I get the first solo show on Tuesday, the twenties.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: Excuse me, I'm sorry, Wednesday, the twenty seventh Memorial Day
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: has me jostled. Tuesday night is the is the Big
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: ten X's runoff, Paxton versus Corn and all of that.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: Texas cares, the nation cares, and with you on vacation,
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: I'll be doing shows, obviously on radio shows, and I'm
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: gonna I'm gonna do what I like to call m
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: which will nimshots and clips and analysis of whatever happened
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: the previous night and Paxton versus Corn and et cetera.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: So that is Wednesday of next week. But as we
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: wrap up this week, before we're done, we'll do some
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: dutt and ranch. But before but let's first take a
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: broad overview of TV. Take a look around, sniff around.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: Does it feel like a better America? Does something feel
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: lighter on your feet and better? Because Stephen Colbert is gone.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: And again, I don't ever root for people to lose jobs,
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: and in fact, I will tell you that that Colbert
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: is only the second most annoying figure in this cesspool
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: of late night TV. But let's do sixty seconds apiece
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: on why you think he's gone. Because the Trump haters
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: say that Trump chased him from the airwaves, that that
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: Colbert was was somehow nuked and canceled because he dared
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: to go up against Trump, and that's just false.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Well, not only is it false, it's provably false. Joe
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Kancha wrote a piece this week in the Washington Examiner.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Stephen Colbert's demise by the numbers, and last night, as
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: you just indicated, was his final show. You want to
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: know how pathetic and putrid The second most annoying late
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: night show guy is Jimmy Kimmel. You know that Kimmel
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: one to me, well, guess what point? And in deference
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: to Stephen Colbert, Kimmel stuck a thumb in his own
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: employer's eye by putting on a rerun last night so
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: as not to draw any audience away from Stephen Colbert.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: He wanted to pay tribute, and so they put on
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: a rerun, which incidantly screws ABC, his own employer. And
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: he said, we're gonna put on a rerun because we
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: want everybody to watch Saint Stephen, this poor persecuted figure
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: that Trump broke.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: How stupid it is because of the motivation, and because
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: we don't like these people. I am. Here's the thing.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: You read this book some weeks ago.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Wait wait wait wait no no no wait wait wait
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: before we get no, no, get to the book.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah no, no, no.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: The whole point, the whole point on Colbert.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: This means, this means it's a chapter I read just
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: last night, and my heart was kind of warmed our
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: Senio and maybe some other shows or something ran reruns
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: for Carson's last couple of days out of a show
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: of deference, and we loved that.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: But that's a different story. I mean, this is yeah,
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: you're right, don't well, let's go through the numbers. Two
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: hundred plus that's the number of staffers that Steve and
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Colbert employed. Now, can you imagine a program that consists
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: almost entirely of two people talking across a desk needed
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: to pay more than two hundred staffers. Twenty two that's
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: the number of writers this clown has or had to
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: craft his monologues. Now, most of those monologues are screeds
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: against Trump and or conservatives, right out of Groundhog Day.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: Every night, same old crap. Twenty two writers. Ninety five percent.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: That's the percentage of jokes that targeted Trump and or
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: conservatives after CBS announced back in July of last year
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: that Colbert would be going off the air. One hundred percent.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: That's the percentage of guests who were liberal on Colbert's
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: show after his cancelation was announced, Right, there was one Republican.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Guess who it was? Do you remember the one Republican
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Liz Jenney, Liz Cheney, Liz Jenny, Liz Cheney is the
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: one Republican guest that he had on his show. Guess
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: how many times Bernie Sanders appeared on Colbert's.
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: Shown twelve fifteen over a period of how long fifteen?
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Well over the years, right, But here's the thing that matters.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Approximately one hundred and fifty million dollars per year were
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: spent on production and marketing. The loss that the red
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: ink that Colbert's show was bleeding for CBS, according to
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Joe Kanca, approximately forty million dollars a year. Sorry, you
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: can't have a show that costs your employer forty million
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: dollars a year and survive. So now they're going to
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: have Byron Allen doing comedy, a comedy show, which, by
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: the way, thank god for that. I mean, maybe a
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: harken back to the Johnny Carson days where you could
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: actually laugh at night. One who wants to go to
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: bed mad?
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: Who was then explain Kimmel to me, Because if Colbert
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: Colbert is an irritant, no doubt about it, he's a
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: big jerk. But there there is I tell you, I'm
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: gonna do this because it's podcast. We haven't yearned to
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: do this to work blue. There is no bigger asshole
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: in all of media than Jimmy Kimmel, and it kills me.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: And I'm sure he's a sweet and nice man to
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: people who are his friends and people who he likes.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: But he's a monster and nationally speaking to people who
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: dare to disagree with him. But Jimmy and Molly do
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: so sweet. No, No, he's a political bigot. Yet he survives,
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: Yet he survives. Colbert is gone. I I shed no tears,
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: but it's weird.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Well, speaking of shedding tears, I meet I'll meet your
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: blue with my blue. The reason he's a big asshole
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: is he continually, he continually does horrific things, and then
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: when he gets called out, he goes on camera and cries,
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: remember what he did with Charlie Kirk, of course, remember
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: how how he did that whole thing with Charlie Kirk
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: and then everybody thought, And then he gets on camera,
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: he starts to weep, and he starts to cry. I
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: mean the guy. I think the guy's will unstable. You know,
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: you and I are pretty emotional. I get a little
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: weepy sometimes. I mean, I admit that sometimes my emotions
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: get the better of me. But that's a regular routine
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: for this guy. He does odious things, he gets nailed
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: for it, he gets pressure and he gets called out,
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: and then he goes on camera and cries. And maybe
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: him crying is what keeps him employed because they think, well,
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: he's not a bad guy. Look he feels terrible and
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: I do have a personal connection to him, kind of
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: a Kevin Bacon two degrees of separation. My good good
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: friend Mike Lindell, who I've known for many years, was
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: a guest on Jimmy Kimmel's show. And Mike, who you
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: know obviously doesn't agree with Jimmy Kimmel or Mike, said
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: that Kimmell couldn't have been nicer to him or his family.
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: I believe that. And Ted I think Ted Cruz was
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: on Kimmel really water somebody else. He has a capacity
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: at times to have a smidge of graciousness, which.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: Well and Mike Lindell claimed that I think. I think
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: think Kimmel introduced Mike to Kimmel's parents, and they were
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: big fans of his. They loved the my Pillow products
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: and they loved seeing them on team. So I don't know.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, but when you make a conscientious decision to
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: let's stay blue, to piss all over half your audience
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: on a nightly basis, you're gonna have to You're gonna
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: have to have some kind of an accountability. Who wants
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: to do that? When when a liberal calls your show,
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: you don't piss all over them. You talk to them.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: You may argue with them, but you don't. You don't
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: be right. And and look at what they do to us.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Look at what these guys do to us. So we
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: go from last night's final Stephen Colbert to the Johnny
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: Carson era. Walk us through the book because, as you know,
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: and the backstory, I sent this book to you. This
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: was my copy, and I wanted you to see it.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: I thought you'd love it. I interviewed the guy, the author, who,
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: as you put it, is a groupie, like a Johnny Carson.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: Love Johnny Carson. Tell me, tell me your takeaway from
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: the book.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: So it starts, of course, and I love bringing up
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: examples of things that Mike and I are too young
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: to remember because they are few. When he Carson started
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: in October nineteen sixty two, you know year two and
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: I'm five ish, so we don't have any awareness of that.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: The whole Tonight Show experience would have been something that
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: I'm going to guess Similarly, we've never really talked about
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: this was the Tonight Show? Your first sort of exposure
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: to it? How do I get to be up this
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: late watching what mom and dad are watching? Was there
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: some year for which that was true for you?
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I kind of remember that. I remember it was
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: a big deal for my mom and dad watching it
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: at night, sure.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: And so and of course, and I think we both
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: grew up in Eastern Times. It was eleven thirty, so
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: it was like, you know, it was like forbidden zone.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: And by the way, just a quick point of reference
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: in sixty two, when he started started in New York City,
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: he didn't start in La yepep, go ahead.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: And Steve Allen had been doing it, and I'd say,
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: if there's anybody I've to there is no Letterman without
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: Steve Allen. I mean, just sort of stylistically, the found comedy,
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: the bits, the things off the cuff is just it's
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: it hurts me to talk about Letterman because he has
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: now turned into bad Santa. If you've seen this guy Letty.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: He is just a political It's awful. I love that
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: show so much in the eighties.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: But not to digress and Steve, by the way, but
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: let's digress. Steve Allen inherited the show from Jack Parr apparently.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: Had Parr from Allen, Alan Parr Carson.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, it was the other way around. Alan Steve Allen
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: originally in the Tonight, then Jack Parr, and then and
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: then Jack Parr like had a meant like a nervous breakdown, right.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: He would listen, you talk about people wearing their emotions
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: on their sleeve. He walked off the show because they
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: they they censored a joke. He would he would, oh, absolutely.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Why can't we do that? Why can't I storm off
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: something I'm gonna do. I'm gonna storm off the show
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: one day. Slam. Trouble is they won't lock the door,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: change the locks and take my head Carter away one
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: m every day. Don't do that.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: The sixties become the seventies, become the eighties. Until his
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: farewell in nineteen ninety two, it is a chronicle of
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: American entertainment because, as the show comes to its end
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: in May of nineteen ninety two, I will never forget
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: watching those last two episodes, the finale, which was largely highlights,
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: but the penultimate, the next to last with Robin Williams
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: and Bette Midler. My heart just just it's so it
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: swells just looking at that moment of appreciation for the
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: thirty years preceding. But if you go back to the
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: sixties and the seventies, it's Rodney Dangerfield, it's Burt Reynolds,
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: it's Jebbishtored, it's all these. It is a chronicle, it's
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: a touchstone of all of American entertainment, brought to you
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: by a man who was a perfect reflector for it.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: He didn't make you think anything. He didn't he helped
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: you think. He didn't force ideas onto you, he didn't
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: force his politics onto you. He was the ultimate welcoming
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: host in the literal sense of the word, a host
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: for an experience that was meant to entertain and enlighten
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: and delight all Americans. It is. He is a forever,
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: eternal American.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Treasure and a very difficult, complicated man, hard to get
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: to know. Mark Malkoff does a great job in the
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: book of explaining that very few people really got into
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: his inner circle. He had an inner circle, of course,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: but there weren't a lot. He was perceived as being
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: kind of icy cold to people. You know, I as
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: a broadcaster my whole life, I always wanted to check
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: off on my bucket list the ability to go to
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: see the Tonight Show in Los Angeles with Johnny Carson
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: in person. I wanted to be in the studio audience.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: And I got my I got my wish one night
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: I got to go to LA and watch Carson doing
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: the Tonight Show. This had mark. I can't even tell you.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: I'm going to guess late eighties. I don't even remember that.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: It was something to do with work. If he left
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: in ninety two, it had to I'm going to guess
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: it was maybe ninety ninety one, and I just remember
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: like it was yesterday. Let me tell you why. I
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: can't tell you who the guests were. I can't tell
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: you what the topics were. All I wanted to do
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: was watch Carson because for me, he was so brilliant
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: and such a great communicator and such a force. And
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: I wanted and I was a kid that always wanted
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: to be a broadcaster. I always wanted to be a
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: talk show host, so I studied him. I watched him
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: first of all. What's kind of fascinating about these late
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: night shows when you were in the studio audience and
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: you get drawn, you get marched in like baby val
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: about an hour before the show and you're sitting there
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: and the studio was frigid. It was like a legendarily
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: air conditioning.
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: How far ahead of time? How far ahead of time?
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: About an hour? About an hour because he had in
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: an hour before. And they tape, like at five o'clock
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: in the afternoon la time. They it's not live or anything.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: They pretape these shows, and I think they still pretty
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: much do that across the board. So I'm in that
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: studio shivering, waiting and it was just dead as a
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: door nail. And you know, and a minute or two
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: before airtime, they all get into place, the band is
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: in place. Doc Severnson came out and it was like
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: watching a factory worker show up to do his assembly
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: line job with a lunch pail. Because Doc Severnston just
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: went through the motions. He wasn't he was just very
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: business like. Ed McMahon walked over the microphone. He was
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: very business like?
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: Does he because there was a period at least, and
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: did did this happen the night you were there? Does
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: Ed do a couple of minutes of warm up?
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they did a little bit. No, Ed didn't do
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: the warm up. There was somebody else, like a producer,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: who did a little bit of a warm up. Ed
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: came over though, and went to the microphone. But here's
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: what's crazy. It was so dead and boring, and I thought,
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh, there's no energy here. And then they
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: did the five four three two. What when that theme
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: song started? Da da da da da, everybody lit up
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden. Doc Severnson is beaming and smiling
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: and Ed is laughing. Now thirty seconds before they were
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: all grim faced. They were just going to work. The
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: whole thing is a shtick. I mean they were performers,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: you know. And it all lit up and the band played,
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: and those rainbow colored curtains parted, and out came Johnny Carson,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: now unlike David Letterman, because I saw them do Letterman
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: a couple times too in New York. Did you know
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: that it was kind of cool, kind of interesting. Letterman
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: does did the warm up with his audience before he
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: came out. So in other words. When you saw Letterman
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: come striding onto the stage, that wasn't the first time
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: the studio audience saw him. He came out first and
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: would do He did ten to fifteen minutes with the audience,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: then they would do the countdown, and right as they
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: were kind of he goes backstage and then come and
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: walks back out again when the show starts and they say,
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: here's David Letterman. But now, well, yeah, it was kind
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: of interesting, but not with Carson. With Carson, that's the
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: first time you saw him. And I just studied him.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: I wanted to watch him and see what he did.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: And all the legendary stories are true. During every commercial break,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: the lights would go down like about half on the set.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: On the set, he didn't engage with the guest at all.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: Did he just a period of times to smoke a
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: cigarette because the melt he was constantly smoking.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: No, No, he didn't. You couldn't see him smoking when
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: I went. I think he stopped in later years, in
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: the early days, I think he actually smoked on camera maybe,
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: but no, he's did. But he sat there. He sat there,
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: and all he did was look out into space and
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: tap the pencil and the guest was sitting right, and
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: that was apparently legendary for him. Now it was later
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: it was it had been explaining. I think that markets
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: into it in the book. It's like he didn't want
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: to talk to the guest on the break because he
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: didn't want to take away any of the dialogue they
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: might have on cameras.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: There'd be some golden moments, some golden exchange, and he goes, tank,
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: I wish this was when we were on the air,
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: so in order to reduce the chance of that to zero.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: And this is also the very weird time went because
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: people watching modern shows now, to whatever degree that anybody does,
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: the guest comes on, the guest leads, the guest comes on,
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: the guest leaves. In the old era of the Carson Show,
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: you'd have Don Delauiz, Don Rickles, Jimmy Stewart and Bettie Davis,
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: and it was sometimes the show was an hour and
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: a half. The guest would come on and then they
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: would just slide down the couch, so eventually they would
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: all be on the couch. And they are these legendary
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: episodes where you've got Dean Martin and George Goebel and
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: Bob Hope, and they're all there and they're all like
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: a moderate blood alcohol level and it's some of the
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: most amazing comic in television and drama. And drama Shelley
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: Winters one dumped a pitcher of water on Oliver Reed's head.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: She was on the set and she was down the
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: couch and Oliver Reed, the famous British actor, he was
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: bagging on women's livers. He was bagging on feminists, and
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: that just offended Shelley Winters, who was a big, big lefty.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: She was a big women's liver. So he was like
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: talking about women need to be providing for their man, walking,
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: working in the kitchen and all that. She got so
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: mad he went over and took a thing of water
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: and dumped it on his head and stormed off the show.
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: So but that was that drama and that tension and
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: that dynamic when people were staying on the set. And
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: back to the fact that Karsha would never talk to
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: guests on the break it was he was defended that
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: way by saying, well, he didn't want to take away
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: the magic. A lot of people said, nah, he was
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: just a stone cold jerk, didn't like to talk to
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: people because he was actu associate that I think this
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: may be the weirdest thing. Almost all the books visit
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: on this. How in the world could this be true
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: of somebody with this job. I think there was a
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: shyness to him. Not everybody is as gregarious and get
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: out there and glad hand all the time.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: I know who is like that? You know who's like that,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: who's very shy in person? And not like that on air?
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: You knew him well, you subbed for him, you filled
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: in for him. Nationwide, Rush Rush Limbaugh was very shy
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: in person, almost to a point of kind of awkward.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: He was not a gregarious you know, like small talker,
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: you know, and work a room and you know, No,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: it wasn't him. Connection with five hundred people, not everybody
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: now that that wasn't Rush, And which is interesting because
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: I always thought it was fascinating how Rush really was
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: very different in person from his on air persona. And
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: I would say, of you and of me, the truth
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: is what we are on the air is kind of
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: what you get. There's no there's there's not a whole
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: lot of showmanship.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: I don't say that to detract from Rush or criticize it,
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: because Frankly, if it wasn't for him, we wouldn't be
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: sitting here today. I mean, this is the guy that
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: paved the way for stations all over the country to
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: continue to thrive with talkera. But he was very, very
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: different in person, decidedly different in person than he was
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: on air. And of course everybody knew the bluster and
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: the braggadocia stuff was all a stick. He wasn't like that.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: But what a great book. Love Johnny Carson. I'm so
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: glad you enjoyed it, Mark.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: Because absolutely did. And last thing on this so we
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: can do a couple of five minutes on Dutton Ranch.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: You know who the beneficiary of some of the the
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: poisons of the modern era are is Jimmy Fallon, who's
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: just a big dork. He's capable of being funny. He
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: tries not to anger anybody. Fallon got in huge trouble
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: for having Trump on and saying can I mess your
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: hair up? Which was a great moment of television. But
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: people said, oh, you normalize Trump, You normalize Trump and
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: what you know what I miss? And there's a we
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: don't need to do a whole history of Maybe another
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: time we'll do like a history of these shows. I
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: miss the cerebral yet entertaining vibe of a Dick Cabot,
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: having John Lennon, Lester Maddox, Mohammad Ali Janis Joplin for thoughtful.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: Not everything needed to be you know, the McLoughlin group,
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: or make Me a Lera or anything like that, but
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: it was just it was thoughtful, and it was the
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: lost art of actual interviewing. Nobody knows how to interview anymore.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: It's just comedy bits, Tom viral moments.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Remember Tom Snyder.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: He smoked a cigarette every every segment.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: But but very cerebral and very very to the and
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: a great interview. Look, the key to being a great
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: interviewer is you got to be a good listener. You've
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: got to hear. I always hate it when I see
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: somebody be interviewed somewhere on a platform and I and
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: the person says something provocative, and you can tell that
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: the interviewer has another question in mine and doesn't listen to.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: The pay attention to it exactly they were, they were
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: just warring. And then I realized I'd been abducted by
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: space aliens. Oh well, tell us about your next Broadway show?
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: What what all right, okay, so real quick on. Let
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: would it be fair to say that with I saw it,
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: we all anticipated it. Would it be fair to say
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: that as you dove in to Dutton Ranch that expectations
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: were high?
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Indeed they were, because Yellowstone has been one of my
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: all time favorite shows of all time. And I don't
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: know if it's the circumstances where I watched it, because
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: let me tell you my circumstances. I got COVID over
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Christmas one year, the year that Dutton that Yellowstone was big,
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: and I so there goes my Christmas. All the kids
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: were going to come to Florida, and I was alone
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: with the stupid Christmas tree and the presence under the
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: tree for like a week. You know. It was awful,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: it was, and it was by myself and feeling sorry
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: for myself, and it was and I didn't even have
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: those terrible symptoms. But you know, back then, everybody was
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: convinced that we were all lepers. If we had COVID,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: you couldn't get with them. You're gonna and guess what.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: I binged on Yellowstone. I would every day my routine.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: I'd wake up at about ten in the morning and
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: I was sick. I was feeling great. I mean, it
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: was hacking and coffin and I had a little feet.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: I'd wake up at ten. All day long, I'd watch Yellowstone.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: I'd go to bed about ten, I'd wake up at ten.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: The next day it was Bill Murrine Groundhog Day. I
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: watch Yellowstone every single day, and.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: So you came to it. So you obviously came to
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: it late, which I did too. It went from about
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: twenty eighteen until twenty twenty four, and we did the
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: same thing. So obviously your story is post twenty twenty.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: We might have started it roughly the same time. I
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: guess we just didn't talk about it much maybe, which seemed.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: I guess because I because well, because what I did
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: was when I had this would have been twenty December
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: of twenty twenty one. I guess that I and I
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: must have gone back to episode one. Well, of course,
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: you know season one, episode one course, and that's where
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: I that's but there was tons and tons of material
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: because like, think about that, it was like ten twelve
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: hour days. Now I stopped to get punch or whatever.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: But I mean he'd go to the bathroom, you know,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: But I yeah, I mean I had shower. I'd bathed
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: once a week. But but but but it was I
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: would There was a lot of material, and I was
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: trying to keep up with Rip and Beth and and
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: the kids and all of that.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: I mean, what a story up that we did do.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: We probably started in around twenty meaning that when we
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: started watching in maybe twenty one or twenty two. When
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: we started there were nine. There were thirty or so
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: episodes for us to catch up on, and we were
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: swallowing them in five, six, seven episode gulps. And it's
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: weird because in a way, does it almost make it
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: more powerful because it's like watching seven epic, fantastic movies
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: in a row. I mean, I don't know, because it
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: was just it bowled me over. And now with Dunton
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: Ranch expectations for me for Sky High two. It is
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: everything you love about these characters, everything you love about
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: the writing, everything you love about the scenery. I can't
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: say enough about it, can't.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, what I loved about and this is a
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: very different environment. Now they're in South Texas. And I
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: remembered after you watched episode one, you were joking like
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: why and the heck did they go?
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: It seemed to hate it. Why did they go? Beth
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: is complaining that it's not at four o'clock in the morning.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: It is saying, I'm mis waking up to the mountains. Well,
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: why are you there? But then we learn why.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: And then we learned why because they you know, and
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: I want to give too much away, but the circumstances,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: I guess, sort of forced them to go to South
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Texas and start their own ranch. But it's even beautiful
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: in the Taylor Sheridan way that quit things. That scenery
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: is beautiful. Look, I fell in love with Montana. It's
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: why last Christmas I brought the kids to uh we
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: we did a whole thing in Big Sky, Montana. We
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: did a ski trip and we went and it's the mountains,
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: is it all.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: It's cracked up to be. I'm gonna have to a bit.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: I'm done Colorado, Wyoming, you know, Utah, the American West.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: But there's I've had the same I had the same
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: feeling I did want to Montana.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: It's more it's better. It's in person, it's even more breathtaking.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: And that was the reason I said, guys, let's go
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: to Big Sky, Montana. And incidentally, this is kind of cool.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Big Sky Montana was created by NBC News anchor chet Huntley,
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: remember Huntley and Brinkley. Of course he he apparently like
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: created this ski community called Big Sky. It's become one
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: of the most popular skiing communities in the country. And
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: it's like got you know, it's got the lodges and
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: the ski lifts and all that stuff. And I'm not
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: a skier obviously, but but but the kids did and
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: we just had the times of time of our lives.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Uh And it was a Big Sky Montanna. But I'm
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: I love Taylor Sheridan's work. Every forty five minute episode
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: feels to me like a full length feature movie.
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: And then those other those other series is of his,
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: the eighteen eighty threes, the nineteen twenty threes, They are
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: all just epic, cinematic quality stuff. And then you'll do fun,
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: sort of lighter stuff like like the Great Sylvester Stallone
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: in Tulsa King is just superb. And they just finished
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: doing the Madison with Michelle Pfeiffer and Kurt Russell. It's
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: a master piece. This guy is a machine. And I'm
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: just so very very initiative. So I'm looking a Ranch, everybody,
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: Dutton Ranch go, do it, Go do it.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: I'm looking for stuff to download on my iPad because
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: in a few hours, I'm going to get on a plane.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: On a plane, I'm gonna be on the plane for
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: a long time, four or five hours to LA and
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: then twelve hours to my next destination. And one of
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: the things I'm getting suggestions on what to download, because
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: that's a whole thing. Remember, you can't get on the
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: plane and then watch something that's streaming. You got to
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: download it in advance to make sure it's on your
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: iPad ready to go. And somebody recommended on Netflix the crash.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Have you heard about the crash? This is the young girl.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: So this is a young girl who evidently had a
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: tumultuous relationship with her boyfriend. She's driving a car, and
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: she's in the car with the boyfriend and I think
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: some other kids in the back seat. If I'm not mistaken,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: I think it might have been Texas, maybe Florida. Anyway,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: she goes and slams the car into a wall at
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: about one hundred miles an hour. The boyfriend got killed.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: She survived and claimed it was an accident. As I
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: understand the premise, they the prosecutors and the police said
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: they ain't no accident. You did that on purpose. No breaks,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: no braking. Now you know, true crime, Mike.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: I was gonna say, I somehow sense this is going
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: to be true crime. Mike, Oh, I'm all about again.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: I look, I may I may move to South Carolina
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: for the next Alec Murdau trial. I may have to
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: just to put up a pup tent outside the courthouse
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: and just just I mean, I love this stuff. What's
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: wrong with me that I love all this true?
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: It is you and the eighty percent of America because
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: it's all absolutely huge couple of quick things. John hamm
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: and your friends and neighbors, Running Point with a great
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: Kate Hudson, a great comedy. There were halfway through a
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: little thing called Widow's Bay with a great Matthew Reese
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: who was in the Welsh actor who you don't know
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: is Welsh, who is in the Americans, and some other
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: stuff that's pretty good too.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: So see you and Lisa. You and Lisa watch way
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: more TV than I do. I don't watch that much.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: That's kind of weird. And you know, you know what,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: I get overwhelmed by I said at night, sometimes I'll
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: sit on the couch and I'll start looking for stuff.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: There's nine thousand things to choose for and I can't
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: pick anything. But but you guys seem to find it.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: By the way, are you aware of Rick Burnenthal? I mean,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: is it? Is it? No? No, it's not Rick John Burnhaal,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: John Burnhal, the actor who was in You know if
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: you saw him, look up John Burnhal. Let me tell
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: you quick, let me tell you three degrees of separation.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: He was in Walking Dead, so he's got Okay, I
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: didn't see that either, But I mean he's all over
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: the place right now, starring on a on Broadway, and
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: I think it's dog day afternoon. You see the picture
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: of him, you know, as soon as you see him
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: John burnthall, Yes, I do, I do? All you recognized him? Yeah,
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: all right? Guess what his His dad used to be
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: my attorney. How cool is that? And I haven't seen
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know him. I've never met John Burnhal,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: but he's not a big favorite.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: Small world. All right, Let's set everybody up because the
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: next time people see you live it'll be like labor days.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: Then I'm gone for a week. But let me tell
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: everybody how much we love you. We are contractually covered
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: here where basically since Mike's off some and I'm off
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: some that when either one of us is gone, we
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: don't technically even have to do this. We do a
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: best of which is blah blah blah, and we said,
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: you know what, dog on it. We're fresh out of
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: the box. We're not going to do that. Mike and
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: I have pre loaded various focal points and overall special
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: episodes and stuff to cover every single day. And I've
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: already mentioned I'm here live Wednesday of next week for
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: the aftermath of Corn and v. Paxton. We're here with fresh,
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: never before seen stuff every day for you while you
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: are gone and while I am gone, but I will
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: miss you. I will be thinking about you. I love you.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: And this is just as we take this moment where
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: we got some best ofs and we're all back together,
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: live and in color. June Monday, June eighth, right, this
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: has been We've known each other for years. I can't
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: tell you what the last few weeks have meant to me,
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: just to kind of float this thing out and start
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: this thing and have people will respond to it as
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: they have. I just love you. I love everybody watching
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: but just thank you for having a health and the
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: opportunity to do this. I'm having the time of my
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: life and I've.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: Been to go back at you dittos to that, and
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: don't forget Wednesday. It's just em Mark's gonna be there
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: to break down the John Cornyn Ken Paxton race and prediction.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: You want to make a predict, Let's make a prediction
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: right now before we.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: Before we go narrow, narrow Paxton victory.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna well, gosh darn it, we're both we're both
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: exactly in the same place, a narrow Paxton victory. We'll
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: find out that Mark will break it down for you Wednesday.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: We'll see you soon. Love you have a great one.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: We travel friends, See everybody soon.