Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Wes Siler on Travel, Hunting, and the Case for the Ranger

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Wes Siler on Travel, Hunting, and the Case for the Ranger · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: host Scott Brady, and I am here in beautiful Bozeman,
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Montana with a very interesting individual, Wes Siler. Thank you
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: so much for being on the podcast today. You're very
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: flattering and it's been too long since I've seen you.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: I know it has been. And a special thanks to
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Rocky Talkies for their support of this week's podcast. Rocky
• 0:24
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• 0:27
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  Speaker 1: and up to twenty five miles line of sight. The
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: batteries will last from three to five days and you
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: can recharge them easily via USBC right in the vehicle.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Our team uses Rocky Talkies and we also use them
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: recently at the Overland Expo. The next Overland Expo, stop
• 0:55
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  Speaker 1: radios for yourself and as a listener of the Overland
• 1:01
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• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Thanks again, Rocky talking it's been fun to be back
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: in Montana a lot more recently. And we were talking
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: about just a few minutes ago. But what do you
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: think is this draw to Montana right now?
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, so obviously you know pandemic trends of accelerator
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: moves to rural areas, But outside of that, I think
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: the thing that attracts people to Montana is that there's
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: real danger here, and whether that's winter weather, whether that's
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: an avalanche, whether that's a grizzly bear, whether it's just
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: the extremely low population density, the amount of trouble you
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: can get in as a result with to help you know,
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: this is a place that attracts self reliant people who
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: want the ability to go out there and test themselves
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: and do so without a whole lot of oversights. That
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: attracts a broad swap of people from all spectrums of society.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: So what's interesting to me is how you got from you?
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: If I remember, you grew up in South Carolina?
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Was that correct? From Georgia, Georgia. I was born in Georgia.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: My family's from North Carolina, North Carolina. I grew up
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: mostly in England. My dad worked for the Department of Defense.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: And then I've lived in London and New York, Los Angeles,
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: not here as an adult.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: So talk to me about that process that goes from
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: growing up in the southeast of this country to where
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: you decide I want to move to Bozeman and you
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: want to have the adventurous life that you do. Now,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: what was the impetus for you becoming the West Silo
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: that we noted?
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Right? So I should point out first that I had
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: nothing to do with moving to Bozeman. This is entirely
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: the result of my lovely wife, Virginia. We met Los Angeles,
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: I think on our first date she said, you know,
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to live in Los Angeles forever. And
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: I was like my kind of girl, and you know,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: we got serious and we were thinking about a lifestyle upgrade.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: You know, I didn't grow up in this country. I've
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: lived here since two thousand and six. I wasn't fully
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: familiar with everything and the places that I had had
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: a lot of fun outdoors and where I had existing
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: friend groups and things like that. That felt right. It was
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: the PNW. It was you know, ben to Oregon, National Oregon, Seattle,
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: and Seattle and that thought exciting for me, but Virginia
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: was always kind of like, that's not quite enough. I
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: never really understood that because I'd never been here. I've
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: never been to Montana, got it. This to me was
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: was a blank space on the map that I was
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: pretty convinced was with South Dakota. And so as we
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: were talking for houses elsewhere in the country, she orchestrated
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: a little vacation here. Got me drunk at dinner one night.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: We were walking back to the hotel and she's like,
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: why don't we just move here to Bozeman And I
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: was like, you know, really, there's just one street, you know,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: you could do this, And she was like, yeah, four
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: minutes later we had bought a house, moved up here.
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  Speaker 1: Well, and you guys were right before the onslaught literally
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: of people moving a moment.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, yeah, our timing was very good. You know,
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: it was it was expensive back then, honestly, and you know,
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: it was a challenge. And once the pandemic hit, I mean,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: it's just it's just been insane. Yeah, And my heart
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: goes out to people that want to move here now
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: because it's just there's there's no inventory for houses whatsoever.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: The rental market is predatory. You can't buy a house
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: for all her money. You know, it's nice to be here. Now.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: It's as you saw, very crowded downtown with tourists. It was. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: we're all talking like we tend to concentrate our views
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: of things in a very small area, and we say,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: oh my god, bose Men's blown up and it's crazy.
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  Speaker 2: And you know, you drive ten minutes in any direction
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  Speaker 2: and it's empty and there's nobody around as far as
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: you can see. Well, I was still really special.
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  Speaker 1: I was camped about forty five minutes away and there
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: wasn't I didn't hear another vehicle. I didn't see another vehicle.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I was perched up on top of this this promontory
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: overlooking the valley and it was gorgeous.
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  Speaker 2: Man, Yeah, just gorgeous. I hunt bears right where you can.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Oh nice. Yeah. Well, hey, that's a great segue, because
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: I'm really interested to understand what you have learned in
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: the hunting space that you have brought with you to
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: travel and to overlanding.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: That's an interesting question I should start with. Honestly, kind
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: of a neophyte hunter, I came in and hunting as
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: an adult. I've had some good mentors. Obviously through work,
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: I can have experiences and tutelage and access to you know,
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: products and gear that people couldn't and that's helped and
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: speed me along. But at the same time, I am
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: not I'm not Steve n Ella, yeah right, I'm just
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: the one he goes out. I really enjoy seeing animals.
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  Speaker 2: Always loved animals, really fascinated with them, and that's really
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: sort of spun into hunting. Hunting is seeking out for me,
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: is for seeking out the most challenging possible experiences outdoors,
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: and you know, trying to make things as challenging and
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: difficult as possible and getting close to animals in them
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: and you know, gnarly as possible environments. And I really
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: enjoy that. And there's definitely a parallel to how I
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: travel because the most entering interesting places in the world
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: are obviously the most difficult to reach, that are the
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: most dangerous, that are places that other people shy away from.
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  Speaker 2: Whenever I travel, I also try to take my love
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: of the natural world into that to try to see
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  Speaker 2: the animals that are there, to try to see the
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: scenery and the places and learn about the plants and
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: animals that exist in those unique environments.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: And it's so interesting when we travel to the developing
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: world a lot of times there's very little animals left there.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I mean there may they may have some some reserved areas,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: but it isn't until you really get North America as
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: an example of good wildlife management. But when I crossed Russia,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: I didn't see a single wild animal.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: No, And you want twelve thousand miles, you know you
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: want in many places, twelve thousand whis crazy. America is
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: so unique in the way it is exceptionally wonderful and
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: successful wild black management program. We take for granted. You know,
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: we drive everywhere in America. You see dear Yeah, you
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: drive out west, you see elk, We see bears when
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: you go camping. You know, all that stuff that does
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: not exist in the rest of the world. In order
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: is access to anybody can go hunting in America of
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: at any income level. It's accessible to everybody. And in fact,
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: it's still a way that you know, millions of well
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: income families put healthy protein on their on their tables
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: every year. That doesn't exist in Mexico, that doesn't exist
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: in Europe. Yeah, you know, in Europe, hunting is only
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: accessible to the very rich. It takes place all of
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: private land. It's mostly you know, pin to released animals
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: or cultivated raised animals. We are so lucky to have this,
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: and I feel like we take it for granted. You know.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I'm interested in is you've
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: had such a variety of outdoor experience all around the world.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: You traveling with a vehicle up to this, up to
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: recent years, has been just a tool to get the
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: job done. Yeah, and now you're enjoying more of the
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: recreating with vehicles. What do you think overlanding is doing
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: right and what do you think it's doing wrong.
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  Speaker 2: That's a good question. The overall trend of empowering people
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: to get more from their vehicles and get more from
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: the general experience the outdoors is very good. I was
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: talking this weekend with my friend Connor who was around
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: the corner. And Connor is a successful, well educated person
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: who drives a stock for runner. It's his first floor,
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: right or He's never really driven off ever before and
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: he has no idea how much is out there. So
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: I'm always encouraging him to go a little further with
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: his car. I'm like, hey man, you need to get suspension,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: you need recovery equipment, you grab max tracks, that kind
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: of thing, and he's always like why. And then we
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: invariably go on a camping or hunting trip together and
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: he's like, I did not know this was here, and
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  Speaker 2: you're like, there's so much of this. It's just everywhere,
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  Speaker 2: and so people don't get to take advantage of it.
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  Speaker 2: And so overlanding as a trend or a movement or
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: activity is really positive, and that's helping people get more
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: from their vehicles and understand that there's so much stuff
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: out there. At its worst, it's just another fetish, like
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: you know, bolting big giant wings to the back of
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: front wheel drive cars was and they're only two thousands.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: You and I and other stakeholders in this world and
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: other people that are influencing the world really need to
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: come together and find ways to make it so it's
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: not a big wing where it's actually empowering and helpful
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: and a really cool thing.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, quality, functional, safe, safe, safety is a lot. A
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: lot of people are overloading their vehicles. You and I,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: oh my god, a lot.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: I had a really good phone called ARII recently on
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: ARII is delving deeper into the overland space. They mostly
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: see it as crossovers and that kind of thing. You
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: know what you and I would probably traditionally describe as
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: car camping and home business international travel, but as people
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: going outdoors and sort of equipping their vehicles to be better.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: And I was like, well, hey, you know, if you
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: guys are going to reach this giant audience that you
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: have captive already, you know, the most important thing you
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: can do is deliver a safety message. And part of
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: that's navigation, part of that's preparedness, and part of that
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: is your responsible use of the trails and the vehicles.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: And so we see that in payloads driving around town.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: You're hear in Boze, Montana, you know, driving past my
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: front window sometime in the next thirty seconds will be
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: a super outback that is so far beyond payload that
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: it's it's comical. Yeah, you know, that person invariably at
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: some point is going to think that they have a legit,
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: offer a vehicle, get it up a dirt road, or
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: get it in the snow, get it stuck, and have
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: no idea what to do from that point. And just
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: outside of town here, I mean you could spend twenty
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: minutes driving and be you know, fifteen miles deep in
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: the grizzly bear territory without water or without bear spray,
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: without any effective tools. Have your outback, you know you're
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: overlaid outback, high centered, have no straps, have no max shock,
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: no shovel on board, and what do you do? And so,
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: at its worst, overlanding is not just a fad, it's
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: also putting peple's life at risk.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so people have to have good tools and get
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: good messages around that.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: And hopefully hopefully training and hopefully just growing their experiences
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: over time. You know, not everybody's going to have access
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: to our financial capability seek op effect training, but hopefully
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: they can find responsible sources of information online on YouTube
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: things like that. Yeah, they can learn what they need
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: over time, upgrade they need over time, and not just
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: think that, hey, my outback is a super effective vehicle
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: and then just immediately go get it stuck the first
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: time they use it.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: And you've done a good job through outside and definitely
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: wild in your own efforts of communicating that message. What
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: are the other opportunities as an industry that we can
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: take advantage of to help improve that.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: I would love to see the vehicle manufacturers get on board.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: You know, they're spending millions of dollars conquesting buyers into
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: a level of alfird capability that's never existed before that
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: those buyers we ever had before. And then they're not
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: at the same time, and you know, there's starting with
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: a purchase message and a lifestyle message and then not
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: intert something with a safety message. And so I don't
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: to pick on super too much because all the oees
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: are guilty of this, but just because through my mind
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: as we just talked about it, but the New Outback
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: Wilderness and New Forceer Wilderness are great examples of what
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: we're talking about here. Yeah, capability, so a little bit,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: not a whole lot of increased capability, but a whole
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: lot of image. So people are going to try to
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: use them in more significant ways. And then they have
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: the suggestion of like recovery points, for example, so they've
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: covered their toehook islets and little bronze covers. At no
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: point in the buying process are you intercepted with a
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: message that, hey, what lies behind that bronze cover is
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: not a real recovery point. You cannot pull a car
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: in a mud using that you will die. Yeah, it's
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: just a hey, this is a super sick off road
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: super group, right, and so you'd be forgiven to go
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: offer road and say death value for instance, get your
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: car stuck, not have a whole lot of experience outdoors,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: not of a whole lot of appropriate safety messages, try
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: to walk out for help and die as two people
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: did last year.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: And it happens all the time.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Happens all the time. We just all everybody in the
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: industry saw the pictures last week of the guy in
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: the super duty he tried to recover off a towball.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: He killed himself right in front of his two little
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: toddlers in the back seat and car seats. And that's
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: super sad and that didn't have to happen.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Well, And that's a really important message that you're sharing
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: that we need to be thinking about not only does
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: our truck work and does it look cool and right?
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: All those things that are totally normal human behaviors, right,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: but how do we do that safely? And how do
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: we make sure that the people that are with us
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: are being safe as well?
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: So all of that it's messaging and it's training, and
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: you know again, the oees are the biggest budgets in
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: the world of any advertiser, and it'd be so refreshing
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: to see them tackle some of these issues alongside selling cars.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: I think their consumers will be happier. I think it'll
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: be feel more empowered and they get more out of
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: the car and feel more low to the brand if
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: they have these empowered messages of how to use the
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: vehicles safely and capably.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that I've also noticed in
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: the time that I've been following your career is that
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: you've done a lot of backpacking. You've done a lot
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: of back country activities, and it seems that you've been
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: able to maintain most of that ethos in your vehicle
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: projects as well. So you know, as a backpacker, every
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: ounce counts and if I look at your Ranger that
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: we drove in today, everything is very intentional. So right,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: first of the first question is why a Ranger.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: That's a good question. My question back to you is
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: why doesn't everybody drive a Ranger? And part of that's
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: the issue. The overall issue we're talking about here is
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: that there's not a lot of good information coming out
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: of the industry. That's consumer facing. So you look at
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: you and I, we have very small channels. As successful
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: as we are in the grand scheme of things, Overland
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: journal outside, whatever else I do is is relatively small
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: in comparison to the megaphone held by original equipment manufacturers,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: the car companies, the big car magazines, the buff books,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: TV shows, all that kind of thing. Those are the
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: guys that reach you know, tens of millions, hundreds and
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: millions of people. And you know, we're reaching people that
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: are already engaged, already prepared to accept the safety message.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: You know, that kind of thing. Have some experience. The Ranger,
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: depending on how you option it, has a sixteen hundred
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: pounds to twenty one hundred pound pay lead two door,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: two wheel drive on LT you get twenty one hundred pounds.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: That is two hundred pounds more than the highest payload
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: you can possibly get out of any spect of the
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: new Tundra, right, which is a class up that's up
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: there with full sized trucks and four or four by
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: four is sixteen hundred pounds. And that means you know,
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: because I use it to take my wife and I
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: camp ping underdogs. You know, two of us weigh three
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: hundred pounds. My dog's weigh three hundred pounds. I can
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: throw on three hundre pounds of a protective gear and
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: still have you know, it's nine hundred So so about
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: seven hundred pounds to work with for a go from there,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: else for it, go fast for everything else, you know,
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: for beers, for stakes, you know, all that kind of stuff.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Everything on the Ranger is built up to that weight rating.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: So it's it's you know, payload isn't just this this
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: weird term that's out there in the universe. It's every bolt,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: it's every nut, it's the size of the brakes, it's
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: the capacity of the cooling system, it's the transmissions, you know,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: ability with stand stress. It's everything. Payload. If we come
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: up any way to define the work truck can beform.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: The way to express that is payload. Yeah, for sure.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: And the counter to that is usually that there's some
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: suffering with ride quality, but I haven't found that to
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: be the case with the Ranger. The Ranger has maintained
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: pretty good ride quality. I've got a five thousand dollars
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: complete oh Man Emo BP fifty one system online, which
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: is extraordinary. It's pretty even it's not bad, you know,
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: it's one of it's one of or beef I have
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: with mainstream car magazines. Again, like my background used to
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: I was the first first ever road test editor Jaalopnik.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: I've written for all the buff books. All I ever
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: wanted from you know, all teenage West ever wanted was
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: to be a road test editor a car magazine. You know,
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: I did it. I did at highest level. I left
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: that world behind, so I still have some beef for
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: that world. The information comes out as poor. So like
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: they go test drive a Ranger or Tacoma or you
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: know anything either mostly driving it on a launch because nobody,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: no car journalists that I know, actually goes camping. It's
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: super frustrating. They're driving it solo or maybe the camera
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: person on board, no weight in the bed. And you
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: don't buy a pickup truck to drive solo, no weight
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: in the bed. You know, you might buy a Jeep
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: to do that, to do a jeep to do that,
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: You might buy Maverick to do that. You might buy
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: a super cross track to do that. But you buy
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: a pickup truck because you can carry. Yeah, right, And
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: so people complaining about ride quality when there's nothing in
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: the bed. Is just such a non real world use
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: case ever, that these people are just so out they
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: just have no idea how consumers actually use vehicles. So, yeah,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: the stock Ranger, Red's fine. Does we camping here in
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: the back? Thir your dogs in it? You know it's
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: designed to carry waite, that's right.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's where we have tons of sandbag these
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: like heavy duty canvas sandbags. We can load up and
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: we know exactly how much each one way we are
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: the same, and we just load them up in the
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: back so we can get a sense for that.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I would love to see that at
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: a mainstream car magazine where they had a consistent test methodology,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: test everything, you know, in a really transparent and equal
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: way that was also based on real world use.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: No, that's excellent. And then I've noticed on your Ranger
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: that you've got, you've been very intentional about how you've
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: built it, because this is actually your second Ranger. Yes,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: so talk to me about what you did for modifications
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: to this truck.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: So the first Ranger I got one of the first
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: when the Ranger came to America. Actually I should back
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: up a second. Let me tell you sorry. So a
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: few years ago, Matt Glass, Fred Williams, Chris not Cordez,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: other Chris Collared, Collared and I all drove across the
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: desert together, right. We took eight total vehicles. We had
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: a bunch of Australians with us too. That's a story
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: from the other time, the flooding, when yeah, that huge
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: fighting happened. It was it was run in toilet paper.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: We ran out of everything. It was. It was horrible.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: It was a very challenging trip. I actually got washed
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: down river and a GQ patrol for a couple hundred yards.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: I thought we were gonna die.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: But you know, yeah, it sounds perfect.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: We took eight vehicles. Every single one of them broke
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: several dozen times, no exaggeration. The FJ forty we had
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: the toe out the defender for like three thousand miles.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: You know, this was a big trip. And the one
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: vehicle in the entire trip that never a bolt, never
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: came loose, never even got close to being stuck, just
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: never had an issue. The guy who ran arb was
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: driving it. He just sat there and like set in
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: the air conditioning where we like fixed cars in this
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: side of the road, made front of us was the Ranger.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: You know, when those come to America, I'm buying one
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: of those. And I called my friend Mike who runs
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: four Communications, and told him that and he was like, well, hey,
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: it's coming, and b you're not buying it. So he
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: sent me one of the first ones off the production
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: line and it was great. You know, my wife and
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: I took guitar our wedding in Baha sur Back modified
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: it extensively for that trip. But we modified it in
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: a way that was you know, right at the very
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: beginning of its production run, there were very few parts available.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: We just had to go was what was out there? Sure,
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: you know, Icon had a suspension system for it, but
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: they had no weird springs so it sagged. Didn't have
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: a front bumper that I was crash tested that I
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: was happy with. You know, stuff like that compromises. The
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: first ever go fast camper made for the Ranger. It
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: was two inches too tall and probably cost me five
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: miles per gallon, you know kind of thing. When it
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: was time for that card back to Forward, I looked
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: at the whole car market and like, there's nothing else
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: that's small enough to be useful off road that has
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: this high of a payload. You know, I want indefinite
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: front suspension because I do thousands of miles of all
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: and road driving. For every couple hundred miles I get
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: off road, you know, I wanted good road manners, I
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: wanted fuel efficiency. I wanted a pickup I could use
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: for day to day just as off roads. The sheep
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: wasn't considered. It was a very good product of all
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: you're doing is off road, but it is not a
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: great on road vehicle. So I bought a second one,
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: and I learned from the experiences that I learned from
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: the first one, the compromises that I made, and I
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: resolved to do it right. I got this one really right.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: It's nice. It's one of the best cars I've ever driven,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: and I'm super happy with it. Again. I chose this
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: car because of my experience in Australia, so I tried
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: to like apply the program of Australian vehicle modification to it.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: You know, readers, if you're not aware, Australia actually regulates
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: its four by four industry through a series of rules
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: called the Australian Design Rules. It's tire size, suspension, lift,
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: all this kind of stuff to make sure people's vehicles
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: are safe and reliable and functional as they travel the outback, right,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: And so I try to use as many Australian parts
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: as possible, and where I wasn't able to use those,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: I use the American parts. So again full oh Man
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Nemo BB fifty one suspension system. I don't think BB
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: fifty one gets the reputation it deserves in this country.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: It's actually a consumer product, consumer fully focused, consumer ready
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: product that's sold on shelves. And when a lot of
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Americans think about suspension, they go and get some incredibly
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: elaborate customs set up, or they just buy something from
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: some guy who's like, or your vehicle weights how much? Okay,
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: here's your springs, you know, whereas in consciously what I
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: mean by consumer level of products, I mean engineers from
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: ARB have done thousands of miles, not just on the
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: suspension itself, but on every possible application. So if they
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: certify it for the for the ranger, that means somebody's
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: actually jim around the outback and you're all show you
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: a couple of times, you know, changing you know valve
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: rates and you know, shim stacks and things like that
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: to make sure it's dialed.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And these are internal bypass shocks, which most which
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: most are.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Not quite quadruprale internal bypass shocks that are adjustable for
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: both compression and rebound damping, which most are not. Most
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: at a relatively affordable price point because they're mass manufactured
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: and with long service animals, and they stand up to weather.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: The BP fifty one I have. My wife's land Cruiser
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: has been through three winners now and looks like it's
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: brand new. And you cannot say the same thing if
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: it was Kings or Fox or something like that.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: So they don't have the corrosion test.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: No, they don't. And the one you ome AARB actually
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: does this. They provide. They dunk it in salt water,
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: they run a past government test, they make sure it's
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: like a rollover and a lane change maneuver. All that
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: stuff that you actually really want as a consumer, that's
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: really important. They do. There's not really another brand that.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Does, especially not from that perspective. What I've noticed is
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: that they're these are premium performance shock absorbers that are
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: designed for daily drivers.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Yes, so they don't they don't drouple internal bypass remote
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: reservoir shocks that were just as well driving around downtown
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: bowsmen and they.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: Don't rattle, they don't make a bunch of noise this
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: So that's that's the reason why I run them.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they speck it out for the way of
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: the vehicle too, So it's not like you go and
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: do you know customer shop and you're like, hey, you
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: know my vehicle ways whatever OMI has sitting on de
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: your shelves light duty, medium duty and heavy duty setups,
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: and you just look at the way of the springs
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: and you choose what's appropriate for you and so you
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: can see it on your truck. It works great, it
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: works great. And so addition to that, just continue to
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: talk about AIRB. I have an AIRB front upper from
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: uppers are another great example of how Australia does products
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: at a level that we just don't. AIRB crash tests
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: rangers with AIRB bumpers in full on crash tests with
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: slow motion cameras to comply with government regulations in Australia.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: You know, you compare that to like any of the
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: popular bumpers here and it's just like some meth heads
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: in Idaho, like welding with some metal hoops together. You know,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: it might be enough to shedd a gear, but it's
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: not enough to guarantee that your airbag is going to
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: fire at the exact right moment in a real crash,
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: which airbe is guaranteeing, And like that's important, Like we
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: need to build save vehicles.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why we did that test years ago, Chris
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: colored Granton and we actually you know, had a light,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: a light measuring it's a huge dome, you know where
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: they actually gather all the light and yeah, they did
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: not always line up with the manufacturer specification.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: Right. We can talk about this for hours. I obsessed
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: with lights, but you know it's just, you know, again,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: like buying product from a country that regulates how things
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: are made and make sure those things are effective and
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: safe and you know, high quality and useful is so
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: much more, so much more important than buying them from
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: so much more effective for your use than buying them
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: from a place that doesn't regulate stuff. And it's frustrating.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: And a special thanks to on X off Road for
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: helping to support this week's podcast. Going further on your
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: adventures is about having the right tools. The on X
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: off Road apps intuitive maps make it easy to find
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: trails and disburse camping, and their offline maps give you
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: full GPS navigation capability without cell coverage. I'm also really
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: excited about their new route builder for planning and sharing
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: custom trips. It's got a snap to trail tool where
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: you can just drop points where you want to go,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: and a route automatically connects to the closest road or trail.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: You can build, save and ad routes to folders, and
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: share your entire trip with your buddies. You can find
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: out more information on on xmaps dot com. You can
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: also find their apps in the Apple Store or whatever
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: other device that you use. Thanks again on x So
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: what did you do for self recovery? You have a
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: wench on the truck?
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got a warn. Wouldn't run anything but warn.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: They make everything right here in America, and they have
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: a Chinese line now, but you know it's still sort
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: of by the American safety staff and cover by the
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: same warranties. I think it's a ten thousand pounds an
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Ietic line. I use it once a year or usually
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: for some idiot who is road Yeah.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but they're blocking your way home.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Kick it all. One of the most comical uses a
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: Wench was, I was driving down by the campus here
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: in Bozeman and a food truck was high centered a
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: curb and I was, I was totally I was totally
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: prepared just to drive pass and not deal with it.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: And then I saw a cop pop his trunk of
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: water raget strap and I was like, oh god, no,
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: I can't drive past. I can't drive past this, you know.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: And again, like just the majority of American consumers don't
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: understand vehicle recovery and it actually kills people, and using
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: using real products is super important.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Like we just talked about a couple of weeks ago. Yeah,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: putting a toastrap around a towball, you know, it's enough
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: to kill somebody.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: It isn't. It's sad, and it happens so fast in
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: terms of everyday thing that you and I do without
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: thinking now because we've done it so often into something
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: that actually kills dads, and like that sucks, and all
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: it takes is just an effective safety message, where like
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: I wish that it was just regulated in some way
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: where like it doesn't matter how stupid you are, you
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: can't buy the wrong products. Yeah, it's a shame it's
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: not that way.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt, no doubt, make that part important part
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: of messaging. So then in the back you've got to
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: go fast. Yes, I've got to go fast camper, which
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: I love. It's impressive. I mean, looking at the one
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: on your truck to see that it is. It's not
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: just an evolution from Gen one to Gen two. It's
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: definitely a revolutionary.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: Owd it's insane. I mean, so I took Scott by
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: the factory today. Full disclosure, I work with the guys
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: that go fast now, you know, take all this to
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: the grain of salt. I wouldn't if anybody who knows me,
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: we has read myself for the last twenty years now,
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: I would never not speak the truth. But you know
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't say that I do work with those guys now.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: So it is a level of product that it does
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: not exists elsewhere. All of the hardware on it is
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: machine from build aluminum by robots, which is really impressive.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: How we watched that today though, yeatally impressive.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: So that can take all the different sort of force
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: vectors and then push those force factors through the aluminum
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: extrusions in ways that illuminatrus can handle. Luminic extruson is
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: very good at handling straightforward, is not bending forces. We've
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: got a topper coming out in the next couple of
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: weeks that we just threw four thousand pounds of weight
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: on the top of and it was fine. We could
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: we could sell that product to consumer tomorrow. They never
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: knew we had. We had thrown four thousand pounds of
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: weight on the top and that exceed and that was
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: size for its a COMA. Yeah, sure, it's like, yeah,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: I mean it would if we had actually put forth
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: out the campus, sit on the ground during that we
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: actually put on a the COVID, it would have been
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: a frame. You know. It's just a there's a level
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: of quality and insightful design and intelligent product there that
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: is not evident anywhere else. And it's also appropriate for
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: the way that I enjoyed the outdoors, because I go
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: outdoors to be outdoors. You know, I enjoy ultra light backpacking.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: You know, if I camp on the beach, I want
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: to fill the fog in the morning, you know kind
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: of thing. And it's it's that level of product which
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: I really enjoy. It's not I'd like your scout camper.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: I understand, it's appeal. There's times when I feel like
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: I could use one. I want to be outdoors, yeah, sure,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: you know I want to camp. I'm gonna cook out
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: of my awning. Sure, well, it's why it's pouring rain
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: and a thunders. Yeah, you know. I want to climb
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: inside during high winds and you know, feel the window
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: a little bit, feel like I'm outdoors. Yeah, And the
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: GFC gives me enough to be very comfortable. You know,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: my wife and I had my at our honeymoon one
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: with all three dogs and had a great time. But
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: it's it's still a level product where I feel like
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: I'm outdoors. I feel like I'm camping. I don't really
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: like trailers and RVs and campers because if.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: You're not living out of it, you don't really need
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: to do it.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: I ever really has the house, Yeah exactly, I.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Wasn't spending two months out of it. But I agree,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: I agree, and I think the overall execution of that
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: truck is really effective. You know, it's not very often
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: we get to talk about people's wives vehicles, but yeah,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: her truck is sweet. Tell you about the two hundred.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: I shuld back up a little bit here. Sorry to
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: back up all the time. I was a car journalist
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: for a long time. I did it at the highest level.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: I've been very successful my career. You know, I can
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: within a reason, not quite Matt Scott levels of ridiculous this,
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: but I can. I can own any car that I want, Yeah, right.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: The best car, the best vehicle that I've ever driven
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: for my uses is the custom Total land Cruiser that
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: my wife drives. The second best vehicle that I've ever
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: driven is my Ranger. And I feel really privileged to
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: be able to say that, Like I wouldn't. I wouldn't
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: training those two vehicles for eighty time. I went't trade
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: them for a Ferrari. I wouldn't trade them for a
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: g Wagon. And so what I did my wife's land Cruiser.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: You know, a again, we live here in Montana. Whether
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: it can change really fast to here, there's no effective
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: weather forecasts. You just never know what you're going to get.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: I wanted to make sure she felt super empowered to
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: go outdoors without me, with her friends. I feel like
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: she was safe and that she could push the limits
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: a little bit in go places she hadn't seen before.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: And I want to know she was safe. I built
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: her the best land cruiser. You know, we took advantage
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: of the products that are out there for that very
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: you know, that global, well supported platform, and we didn't
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: build it past the point of reasonable where which a
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: lot of people do. There's nothing on the roof, there's
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: no roof forract, there's no five hundred pound ten. What
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: we did was I long traveled it with oe parts
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: off a second Gin Tundra creates a plus one point
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: five situation every side and a little over twelve inches
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: of total will travel up front. So that's as much
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: as like a brand new like you brang a Rubicon
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: or you know for Bronco Sasquatch level of like articulation
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: from something that fits in the stock enders and the
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: stock wheels on thirty threes.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: And did you retain the KTSS Oh.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, katyss is what makes it to any serious A
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: series land cruiser.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: And it's really so it's interesting that it can be
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: retained with those longer travel Yeah.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: It bolts right up. All we had to change was
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: the lower control arms, upper control arms cvs and tyron
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: ins right and so everything just bolts right up to
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: the KDSS. Nice and it's it's incredible because you know,
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: we can drive it somewhere. It's Montana. There's three cops,
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: all three of written me speeding.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Tickets, you know, and there was there was a period
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: of time where Montana did not have a speed limit, yeah,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: which I think is amazing.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Speaking to gets here like twenty bucks, so it's you know, yeah,
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: they're like, hey, man, you're going pretty fast. Like I
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: know if you secked it, if you checked out my truck.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: They're like, dude, it's sweet. Like that's the interaction, right,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: So I drive everywhere one hundred miles an hour her
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: truck and corner totally flat on pavement one hundred miles
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: an hour like a Bentley. And then the second you
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: go on a dirt road and you know, kiddss works.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: It's a hydraulic system and it just sort of automatically,
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: you know, if there's any if both axles are being
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: pushed in the same direction, this way, bars are connected,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: and the second the axles move differently, they bar's disconnected.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: And so you drive down a dirt road and you
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: can imagine you hit a pothole and the rear actule
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: falls into it and reactle falls into it without its
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: way bar is connected, and there's no there's no time
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: for an actual water or anything like that happen disconnected.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: It just doesn't have this way bar. And so you
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: can drive down like a rough dirt road that we
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: drive down every single day, you know, with all the
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: extra travel you know from the long travel situation. There's
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: roads here that we take at like eighty five miles
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: an hour in her land Cruiser that like locals drive
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: down at like twenty five miles an hour, like complaining, Sure,
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: you know, it's just it's ridiculous. Virginia like goes in
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: a camping trip with our friends and people are like
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: creeping along and four low, and she just like steam
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: rolls through like fifty five miles an hour with like
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: her arm, like you know, her axle is just doing this,
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: and she has no idea that it's happening, right, she
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: just d why everybody complaining, this is not hard, you know,
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: and like you know, she's just retaining traction everywhere because
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: her wheels are just in contact with the ground no
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: matter what she hits. Yeah, sure you know, And this
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: is that vehicle is just just extraordinarily it manages traction
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: really well. You know, the full time it's got tors
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: and centered DEFF, so it's always running an all wheel drive.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: We took it out for a video shoot where I
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: was trying to demonstrate it's for our four capabilities for
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: for outside and your video shoots are complicated, you know,
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: dynamic things. I'm shouting out my camera man. We're trying
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: to figure out sound, you know, we're doing obstacles and
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: obstcles and obstacles. And I realized like halfway through the day,
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: I'd never put it in for wal drive.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Driving around it all.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: I was just driving drive and it was fine. You
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: can see the wee spinning up a little bit of
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: bade through every obstacle. Sure that torson just puts a
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: power where it's needed, you know. And there's just there's
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: just a level of speck on that truck that will
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: probably never be recreated again.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: It's not likely. Although electric electric can achieve a lot
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: of it, but not with that same level of We're
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: around the world capa built.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: We're not seeing articulation from the electric shocks yet. But
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: you know, that form factor Freese a lot of frees
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: up a lot of things. Never say never, but we
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: haven't seen it yet. We're not seeing traction handled to
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: the same degree as like, you know, a triple lock situation. Sure,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: you know we're not seeing you know, tires in a
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: place where they're happy. You know, the Rivian is on
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: street tires.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like basically yeah, because they have to get the
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: rain the.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Street tires and the hummers on MUDs rains. But you know, again,
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: that's a six figure truck.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: That is on your land cruiser. You have front and
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: rear lockers in that rear locker rear locker. Yeah, and
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: then you've got.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: To thirty three. It's a seventy five seventy eighteen which
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: again I didn't have to regear it with that new
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: eight speed they put in it. It's got an airb
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: front compressor, so you've got to take off on the
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: grill so you can air up and down or tires
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: super fifty. How we have that, we have we have
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: airby front upper again, safest bumper in the world sliders
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: from Slee which are just super strong airb rear bumper
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: without a swing out, which I mostly just did for
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: it because it's an expensive vehicle. I don't like the
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: ideal running into it makes them pay attention exactly, people
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: have hit it. I was. I went through a car
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: wash with their car last year. Some dude in a
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: brand new Explorer confused like park neutral drive and rammed
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: me to the car washing. I didn't understand what it happened.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: I was sitting there in the car washed. Of a
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: sudden the car wash shut off. I didn't feel anything,
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: and like all the guys were laughing, and then we're like,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: come on, come on, drive out. And I drove out
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: and they're like, yeah, that guy's cars. And an Explorer
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: had like ran into the back of me, like torn
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: off his front bumper, like scooched up his hood. There
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: was like a nick like you know, like a you know,
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: like like half an inch in the steel bumper that
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: like I touched up with Neil Polish. The level of
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: capability and reassurance that car provides just our every day life,
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: whether it's just driving around how in the Bozeman like
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: at the car wash, or just unexpected snowstorm, or it's
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: off road and a river is a little higher than
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: you thought it was, there's a little more muddy you
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: thought there was be That car will handle It'll handle
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: it for everybody. It's it's got a warn zeon twelve
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: vests on the front. There's nothing it can't do well.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: And if you wanted to drive it down to Panama tomorrow,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: we would just put the dogs inside and go exactly,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: put some bags and off you go.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: One of my favorite things I should not have, never
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: fail to manage, because it's literally my favorite thing in
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: the whole truck. Beyond the suspension is a long range
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Meriti fuel tank. And so it's twelve and a half
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: extra gallons, which is twelve miles per gallon. Is useful,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: and it hides up in the frame voys. It's formed
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: up into the voids of the frame above the spare,
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: so you can retain the spare in the stock location,
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: not lose any high that the spare does not hang
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: any lower. Interesting, and you just get twelve and a
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: half extra gallons on board. And so my wife, you know,
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: weighs one hundred pounds. Her fussing with a jerry can
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: is just going to be a nightmare, sure, and I'm
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: going to hear about it. And so instead of having
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: a jerry can, she has two and a half jerry cans.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: And all she does is push button yes, and you
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: come bright into the main tank and we we have
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: fifty percent more range. Yeah, that's awesome.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: With your broad spectrum of outdoor you know, experiences and
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: skill and research and editorial. What do you consider to
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: be the fundamental skills of outdoormanship that you would talk
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: to people about. What do you what do people need
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: to be thinking about when they go outdoors.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: I think people focus a lot on really silly stuff,
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: Like I have friends that want to be more outdoorsy,
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: and they go and intend like a nole's class. They
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: try to learn everything you know, honestly, just a sense
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: of adventure with the ability to effectively evaluate risks and
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: make smart decisions. And you just go out there and
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: do it. Like, I don't think there's a whole lot
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: of skill or knowledge or things like that. You'll learn it.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: We all learned it, and they.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Start maybe starting with manageable risk.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, start with stuff you know you can do. Just
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: go car camping, gain the experience. You know, if it's
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: cold and like your sleeping bag doesn't work, get a
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: better sleeping bag. Read a couple of online stuff on
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: expedition portal about like recovery gear, make sure you pack
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: the right stuff. Watch a couple of YouTube videos and
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: how to use it. Yeah, and there you go, like,
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: you know, first day is first day. You put a
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: band aid on it about the extent of what you do.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: You know, try to cut yourself with a knife while
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: you're cooking food, you know.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: And that happens more often.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's amazing, it does happen. You know. The big
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: thing is just like try to be a good citizen,
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: dispose of you're poop properly, don't let her, you know,
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: things like that, Like you'll be fine if you make
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: a mistake, You're gonna learn from it and you'll be
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: more fine next time because you made a mistake.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Wes, I think that that's one of the biggest
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: struggles that our industry has now is a number of
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: people that are out overlanding the amount of trash. I
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: don't think overlanders leave trash, They don't leave much, but
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: they definitely leave a lot of human waste behind.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: As a dog owner, the amount of human poop that
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: is out there, it's not hard to poop appropriately, Like
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: carry a shovel, dig a hole that holds to be
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: sixty say, six sixty eight inches, put poop in it,
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: and pee in it. Nothing else, throw your toilet paper
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: in a trash bag and carry it out there you go,
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: You pooped out doors? Congratulations? Why is that hard?
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: And if you have the capability like I do in
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: the scout, you know, just I have a composting toilet
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: in there, then you don't even have to leave anything
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: in the outdoor.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Great. Yeah, I'm gonna get one of those new Japanese
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: toilets that seals everything in like a heat sealed wag
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: back for you. And like, I don't need to do
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: that again. Like I don't camp where other people camp.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: I go way for other people. I just feel that
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: I've encountered so much in human poop that I want
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: to take my situation at least to the next level.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: So I'm setting a good example.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: That's why I'm doing it. I just want to minimize
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: that that that's even happening. But you look at Moab
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: last year. I mean they shut down camping because they
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: had three point two million people and it was literally
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: the human waste. It was too much.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: It's awful, And like, it's not that hard to deal
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: with poop. Yeah, you know, it's not that hard. You
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: know what, climb ahead, if you're gonna go out for
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: a weekend. Poop on Friday before you take off, You
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: probably won't need to poop again until Sunday when you're
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: back at McDonald's.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Think about at least think about the people that are
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: going to come to that campsite after you, you know,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: pick up after yourself, don't leave poop everywhere.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Trying to visit that campsite again. Would you want to
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: come back to that campsite if somebody had diarrhea all
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: over it?
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Eahct and that happens.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: It totally does.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: So.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: One of the things that we do like to ask
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: is all this experience that you've had being automotive journalists,
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: traveling around the world, you know, building vehicles, backpacking, hunting.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: How has all of those experiences changed you as a person.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: What are the things about you that you realize that
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: that experience has really shifted in your mindset.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: To answer your question about you know what this has
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: given to me, it's just I just want to help people. Yeah,
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: I want other people to you know, want people to
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: listen to this and feel like they are more empowered
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: to go outdoors. I whople to read my stuff and
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: do what they're more empowered to go outdoors, just be
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: full of love, they care about other people and do everything.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: If all of us just do everything we can to
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: help each other, yeah, then we all win. Yeah. It
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: gets easier, Yeah, gets easier for everybody. All the work
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: that I've done to help other people that have less
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: than I have, all the work that I've ever done
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: to stand up for what's right, all the politics I've
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: ever done, everything has maybe richer, not poorer. Yeah, And
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: I don't understand why everybody is to do it. It's
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: just been an overwhelming victory for me, and it will
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: be an overwhelming victory for anybody else butts out there
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: bus themselves out there in the same way.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: Well, that's inspirational, man, Thanks for the work that you're
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: doing with that. That's really amazing. You know. Another question
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: that I like to ask, which is usually a selfish one,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: is the books that have made a difference in your life,
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: the books that you're like.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Man, that was an amazing read. Back in Georgia, had
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: this incredible opportunity to be mentored and I was a
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: very little kid at the time by this guy named
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Mark Warren. And Mark Warren is a member of the
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: Cherokee tribe, a prolific outdoor educator. So he is a
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: series of survival books that are available on Amazon. You know,
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: I lived in this guy for a summer, learned how
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: to swim white water from him, and had to catch
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: snakes from had to be shod, build shelter from him.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: You can learn all of that from this and learn
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: how to eat native plants from him, all all that
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: same stuff his VEI own books Mark Warren on Amazon.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: And he's also written a really incredible trilogy about the
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: history of White Arp where he collaborated with the ir
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: family and has written probably the first true history as
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: much as they understand it to be true about this
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: larger than life, you know, wild West figure. So he's incredible.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: And then the other guy that I really love is
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Robert Young Pelton. Yeah he's amazing. You met Pelton a
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: bunch of times. Yeah, fantastic.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: So he's the real deal.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, pel Pelton's right here. And I assumed to him
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: out like ten years ago. I was like, hey, man,
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: can I buy a drink sometime? He wrote right back,
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: He's like sure. He went up for drinks. He made
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: sure that I paid. Yeah, you know, fair enough. We
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: got hammered, fair enough we became friends. Then we go
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: camp we go on camping trips together. He's a great
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: dude and he's just super interesting. Those guys that the
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: rolves has never been scary to him. No, he'll visit
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: a war zone, he'll go anywhere, and he's just like,
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: hey man, I'm Robert and people are like, that's cool.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: You gonna be friends. Like that's a great way to.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Be the story of him going into Iraq just as
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: the war is, you know, kind of at its peak.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: He buys one of Saddam Hussein's rolls royce Is for
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: like two thousand dollars in cash and he drives it.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: He drives it across the country. It's an unbelievable story.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: He's ridiculous. Yeah, we went on a camping tree.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Didn't he write the World's Most Dangerous Places something like that?
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: So what he's famous for. He had a t series
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: in nineties that was on like CPS or something. We
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: went camping in Anti Barago with the latest in full
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Raptor when it first came out, and something got super
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: upset that Wiley here was off leash and you know,
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: roberts like seven feet tall and says he's like screaming
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: in my face. I don't know how to navigate it. Yeah,
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: and so Robert just comes over and he's like, hey man,
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: the guy like looks up and robbery.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: He's like, oh no, oh, you're not a small guy.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: He is an amazing character. So yeah, anybody that's listening
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: to check out Robert Young Pelton's work is really awesome.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Last question, somebody's brand new to overlanding. A couple pieces
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: of advice that you'd give them.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: Just go out there and have fun, man, like, you know,
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: subscribe to Ronnie dall On on YouTube. He's character. He's
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: really good advice. Watch some of your recovery advice. Grab
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: a snat strap to two shackles two three quarter it's
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Crosby shackles. Make sure your car's recovery points, set of
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: max tracks, and that's about it. Make sure you ear down,
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: you make sure you poop in a hole, and just
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: go have a trip. You know, just just go do it.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: And you know, trying to be super irresponsible. You know,
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: try to try to scale your experiences over time. Experience
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: would teach you how to scale, So you have to
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: get out there. I see so many people that just
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: don't appreciate just just how much is there, Like how
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: much people that live here in Bozeman have no idea
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: how accessible, crazy beautiful most of this state is, and
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: you can't get to any of it without a four
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: by four. Yeah, you know, people are to like, you know,
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: be all pure, pure's about backpack that and I do
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: all that stuff. I do all the human powered stuff,
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: and you can't get to any of it that's worth
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: a damn without a four by four.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or at least not without a whole bunch of.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: Effort, whole lot of days, a whole lot of days
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: of walking, that's right, yeact yeah, I'm not toting a
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: kayak for fifteen miles up into those mountains right there,
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: but I could drive there in about ten minutes.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: I know that. Amazing.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is amazing.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Well, Wes, the work that you do for Outside and
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: your own outlets has always been inspirational to me. I
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: think the quality of the editorial that you produce is exceptional.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: You've always put the reader first, and that's something that
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: we always try to celebrate within our organization. How do
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: people find out more about you and the work that
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: you do.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Just google my name West sailer for Outside Magazine. I
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: have a couple other projects. You know, you'll you'll find me.
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: You probably read myself already, you know, you realize that
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: it's you know, yeah, I'm very fortunate to be able
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: to say that. Yeah, for sure, it's very flattering. Thank you. Yeah,
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: you're welcome.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Wes, thanks so much for being on the podcast, and
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: we'll talk to you all next time.