Latest / Make Water Work Podcast / Chris Miller: Chemistry, Compliance, and Scale | Make Water Work 028

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Chris Miller: Chemistry, Compliance, and Scale | Make Water Work 028 · Make Water Work Podcast

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things can get out of hand uh quickly.
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Uh Ohio faced harmful algolooms. You
0:05
know, 40% of the water sources in Ohio
0:08
have measurable algo toxins. So, the
0:11
issue isn't whether or not they're
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there, it's how much and you know, are
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they going to get out of hand and you
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know, quickly all of a sudden um you can
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have an issue like Toledo. Welcome to
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the Make Water Work podcast, where we
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dive into the people, ideas, and
0:27
innovation shaping the future of water.
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I'm your host, Isaac Pellerin, and
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alongside my co-host, Megan Glover, the
0:34
founder of 120 Water, we bring you
0:37
insights from hundreds of incredible
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conversations we've had over the past 9
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years with inspiring and energizing
0:44
leaders in the water industry. Each
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week, we share those stories and
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conversations with entrepreneurs,
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community champions, and innovators who
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are making water work for everyone.
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Whether you're a water professional, a
0:58
curious innovator, or simply passionate
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about our most precious resource, this
1:02
podcast is for you. Let's get started.
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Well, welcome to the Make Waterwork
1:10
podcast where we celebrate the
1:11
innovators and the people leading and
1:13
serving in the water industry. And
1:16
Megan, I'm really excited about today's
1:18
guest. Um, please tell us who we're
1:20
going to be speaking with.
1:21
>> I am very excited as well to welcome
1:23
Chris Miller on the podcast who is
1:26
currently vice president of digital
1:28
services for US Alco and former founder
1:32
and CEO of Fontis Blue. And that
1:35
transaction just has happened within the
1:37
last 6 months um of this taping. And so
1:40
just excited to get Chris on the podcast
1:43
to talk about that incredible journey
1:44
from um startup to um acquisition. And I
1:48
think you know fun fact about Chris is
1:51
we actually have some synergies with
1:53
Fontis Blue and 120 Water. We share some
1:56
marketing resources. Yeah. And um uh you
1:59
know Chris uh gentleman by the name of
2:02
Jeff Bberdorf who Zansville Indiana and
2:04
we've got two really dynamic water
2:07
companies on the same block. Right. How
2:09
fun.
2:09
>> Yeah. Yeah. This is going to be an
2:11
exciting founding story to dive into and
2:13
so yeah Chris, welcome to welcome to the
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podcast. We're so excited that you could
2:18
join us.
2:20
>> Pleasure to to be here today and it you
2:22
know I've always enjoyed uh hanging out
2:25
with the 120 water crew. So glad to
2:28
actually now uh get a chance here to
2:31
talk about kind of the fondest blue
2:33
story and have a conversation with you
2:35
all today.
2:36
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, and we we always talk
2:38
about, you know, we've never met anyone
2:41
in the water industry who doesn't have a
2:43
story about how water found them. And so
2:45
we would love to hear your story of um
2:48
Chris, how did water find you?
2:51
>> Well, I like that uh the framing of the
2:53
question, right? because like many
2:56
things it is yeah how how'd it come to
2:58
be and how to actually really found me.
3:01
So uh really starts in college. I was
3:04
looking for a job as many college
3:06
students need need to make money to pay
3:07
that tuition and lo and behold I got a
3:11
uh position washing dishes in the water
3:13
treatment plant. So uh the University of
3:16
Iowa is where I went to school. They
3:19
have both the university water treatment
3:21
plant as well as the city water
3:23
treatment plant. We're both on the Iowa
3:24
River. Uh so it was actually related to
3:27
the university and as luck would have it
3:30
where I wash dishes and I sort of got
3:33
additional responsibilities would go
3:35
conduct some water quality testing and
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there was a a cohort a big group of
3:40
graduate students that worked in that
3:42
same lab. So it gave me exposure to uh
3:45
some at the time Iowa had a lot of
3:47
nitrate runoff issues and so we're
3:51
sampling for that water quality and uh
3:53
so it uh not only exposed me to some
3:56
kind of current issues but I also got to
3:58
see graduate students and going to work
4:00
on that and so that really kind of
4:03
triggered transformed me over to
4:04
thinking hey why don't I continue my
4:07
graduate school work and ended up
4:09
getting a master's and PhD and uh you
4:13
know going on that journey. So uh once I
4:15
became a professor though uh as far as
4:19
what really made it personal and kind of
4:21
linked over then to fus blue was I saw
4:24
an environmental working group report on
4:26
disinfection byproducts uh health
4:29
effects of this. This was in the early
4:32
late 1999
4:34
or so and it raised my awareness about
4:37
hey water quality does actually have
4:40
sort of a personal health effect you
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know noncarcinogens all that and so you
4:45
know it's hard to believe that was over
4:46
25 years ago now but and we're still
4:49
obviously dealing with that so
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>> I I love that love that um uh for well
4:54
for those um that may not be familiar
4:58
just a little bit about what disinvest
5:00
uh disinfection byproducts high level
5:03
what is it why is it harmful how is it
5:05
treated and then we can kind of talk
5:06
about um then how did pontis blue start
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but
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>> perfect mate yeah so uh I mean most
5:13
people are familiar with that we
5:15
disinfect the water to protect against
5:17
microbial risk and you can smell
5:19
chlorine in the water uh actually if you
5:22
smell the chlorine you know that the
5:24
water utility is doing their job and
5:26
making sure that you have enough
5:28
disinfectant in the to protect against
5:31
that. But one of the downsides or the
5:33
byproduct of adding the chlorine is that
5:36
it forms some real lowle but known
5:40
carcinogens that are also regulated. So
5:43
water utilities have to find that right
5:45
balance between protecting for
5:47
disinfection and also minimizing the
5:50
formation of those.
5:51
>> Yeah. So, one of the facts that I was
5:54
told really early on when I started 120
5:56
water is that that chlorine smell if if
5:59
if it's not um favorable to you or if
6:02
you know you can't drink it, you just
6:04
put your water in a pitcher and put it
6:06
on your um your counter and the chlorine
6:09
smell will go away. Chris, is that true?
6:11
I've never fact checked that, but do you
6:13
know that to be true or not?
6:14
>> Yeah. So chlorine uh uh similar again if
6:19
people have a swimming pool or so you
6:20
know they'll they have to regularly add
6:22
that chlorine it will over time it will
6:25
go away and decay and form like chloride
6:29
and it's it's fine for you to drink.
6:31
It's even fine for you to drink water
6:32
with the chlorine but again it's that
6:34
reaction time when it actually and it
6:37
what it's continuing to form that's
6:39
separate from the chlorine that's uh of
6:41
concern and again regulated but
6:44
>> Yeah. Yeah.
6:45
>> Mhm.
6:45
>> So you um you uh started a very
6:48
successful company called Fontis Blue
6:50
and it was like I said recently acquired
6:52
by US Alco and we'll talk about that in
6:55
a minute but let's get uh why did you
6:57
start Fontis Blue? What problem is
6:58
Fontis uh solving and and what compelled
7:01
you to to start it?
7:02
>> Yeah so uh as a professor I was training
7:06
young engineers. We were seeing that
7:10
these new regulations were coming on
7:13
specific to actually it was the second
7:15
set of disinfection byproduct rules
7:17
called stage two. Uh and so I was
7:21
training engineers to help consult water
7:23
utilities on what they could do, what
7:25
treatment options, you know, what kind
7:27
of uh operational strategies. And
7:30
instead of uh consulting those utilities
7:33
myself, I saw an opportunity to actually
7:35
build tools for the water operations
7:38
staff that could then uh do some of the
7:41
complex calculations, the chemistry, but
7:44
uh really help them both understand
7:48
those tradeoffs again between even like
7:50
disinfection and the disinfection
7:52
byproducts and really uh help manage
7:55
those different complexities that um
7:58
they were faced it.
7:59
>> Yeah. And what year was this, Chris?
8:02
What the year would this have been?
8:04
>> Yeah. So, the the official founding of
8:07
the company wasn't until 2017. So, I was
8:09
I was saying earlier, I kind of really
8:11
became aware the end of uh 1999 2000,
8:16
the new disinfection byproduct rules.
8:18
So, uh I was actually there were a lot
8:21
of utilities that were violating that I
8:23
was consulting for. And so again, I I
8:26
was like rather than just kind of have a
8:28
local impact of supporting the Ohio
8:30
utilities, why not again create tools
8:33
because it was going to be something
8:34
that, you know, all all utilities were
8:37
going to face.
8:38
>> Yeah.
8:38
>> I'm curious too in the process that
8:41
utilities go through. um
8:45
what's the investment they they need to
8:47
make in adjusting
8:50
um in adjusting the chemical um balance
8:53
and the chemical process. Um can you
8:56
talk a little bit about that and kind of
8:58
the the impact of getting that right and
9:01
and what it means to optimize?
9:04
Yeah. So uh so obviously each each
9:08
decade I mean which is is good for the
9:11
need for the business but each decade
9:13
the regulations don't get simpler right
9:16
they get more complex. So
9:18
>> um uh previously they're mostly focused
9:22
on like turbidity removal. So you could
9:24
focus on like a single chemical like
9:26
your coagulant. Uh but then as you want
9:29
to reduce more total organic carbon and
9:32
manage disinfection,
9:34
corrosion control and lead obviously
9:36
with flint came about, you know, and all
9:39
of that. Uh so uh as you keep adding to
9:42
that complexity, those tradeoffs, Isaac,
9:45
to your question is those trade-offs
9:47
become even more challenging because
9:49
often times you will improve one metric
9:53
at the expense of another. And so how do
9:56
you really balance all those? Um so
9:59
again to me optimization is balancing
10:01
tradeoffs. That's what I equate with.
10:03
And so yeah you know it's not like a
10:05
single perfect chemical combination but
10:08
if we can quantify what those tradeoffs
10:10
are for the operators then they know hey
10:13
I will improve this by 5% and this may
10:16
degrade by 2%. that we can quantify and
10:20
forecast for them so that they know
10:22
they'll still be in compliance and maybe
10:24
even uh better than compliance and what
10:27
their goals are for their finished
10:29
water.
10:29
>> Yeah. So needed and and just to kind of
10:32
tie it all together, Fontis Blue does
10:34
this right as an intelligence tool for
10:36
for operators trying to figure this out,
10:38
right? It it'll kind of put in some
10:40
candidates or for optimization or
10:43
describe a little bit technically about
10:44
how it works if you wouldn't
10:45
>> being a professor maintaining you know
10:48
sort of that subject matter expertise in
10:50
drinking water treatment and uh
10:53
continuing to add those different uh
10:56
chemistries and components to it. So uh
10:58
we are very much the the tool is built
11:02
on sort of you know fundamental
11:03
acidbased chemistry, corrosion chemistry
11:06
those those types of things. uh uh we
11:10
also looked into more of the machine
11:12
learning neural network and so there are
11:14
some use cases that are more uh
11:18
applicable to that ours we almost all
11:21
the use cases we use fundamental
11:23
chemistry as the basis so um I think
11:26
Megan that's kind of so obviously was
11:28
teaching that material as those new you
11:31
know as Flint came on board and they
11:32
learned what you know was really
11:34
important in the corrosion chemistry or
11:36
as new things come out uh we we found a
11:39
way to really translate you know the
11:41
best of the science peer-reviewed
11:43
science that's out there and again
11:45
translate it into a usable tool for the
11:47
app
11:48
>> absolutely yeah and um what is your
11:50
reach today how how many utilities are
11:52
you working with uh
11:54
>> yeah so uh prior to the prior to the
11:57
acquisition again this is you brought up
12:00
uh Jeff Beverorf I'll give him a shout
12:02
out that's been instrumental in our
12:04
growth and we're like 14 or 15 states in
12:07
the US that we were in. Uh that was as
12:10
of June of last year. And now it's
12:12
likely 22 or 24. So we've even in the
12:15
short 6 months, you have added almost
12:18
50% u terms of the state coverage. So
12:22
and I expect that to continue even more
12:25
this year.
12:26
>> Yeah. I mean that's just a great a
12:29
wonderful kind of success story. So what
12:30
I'm doing my my math in my head almost
12:33
kind of 10 almost 10 years not quite.
12:36
um you know, hustling. I'm assuming
12:38
you're hustling. I'm I'm assuming
12:40
founder life wasn't all hunky dory all
12:43
the time.
12:44
May uh what' you get right along the
12:47
way? What can you point to to say I did
12:50
these things right? And then, you know,
12:53
we'll talk about, you know, the
12:54
acquisition here in a minute.
12:56
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, uh probably shouldn't be
12:59
a shocker, but it was fortunate enough
13:02
to have a great team along with me,
13:05
right? So uh so even though yes was the
13:08
single founder uh uh I initially
13:11
recruited I think the first three
13:14
employees that are still with the
13:15
company were actually all uh students
13:18
that I had interacted with at the
13:20
university. Now, not not all of them
13:22
were civil engineers that I had taught
13:24
in classes, but I'd recruited a computer
13:26
science uh student to work on taking us
13:30
from an Excel sheet to a mat lab type
13:33
program that was the precursor before we
13:35
went to the cloud. So, uh again, I know
13:38
that's common in many many successful
13:41
companies, but this was again was
13:43
critical, a great team. Uh we also had
13:46
uh was fortunate Ohio invested a lot of
13:49
money. I know even like Indiana and
13:51
Indianapolis area has done the same at
13:53
creating an ecosystem that's very
13:55
supportive supportive with mentors
13:58
supportive with uh seed funds you know
14:01
those kinds of um so uh we were again I
14:05
could go on and on but you know where we
14:08
had our first uh place our first office
14:12
was in a bounce innovation hub the team
14:15
there was amazing you know those those
14:17
things um and And uh obviously I think
14:21
the one as you kind of alluded to Megan
14:24
being a founder requires a certain
14:26
tenacity that um um es and flows but uh
14:31
so I think that the single factor of
14:33
just sticking to that mission vision
14:35
being passionate knowing this was an
14:37
impactful
14:39
uh pursuit and um you know just really
14:42
staying the course and staying at it
14:44
till till good things happen.
14:47
>> Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's obvious that
14:49
you you knew that there was a better way
14:50
in your head and that everyone deserved
14:53
that level of um that tool or that level
14:56
of consultation. It doesn't have to be
14:58
delivered by a single individual, but
15:00
you know, how can we actually deliver
15:02
this to the m and it's just yeah
15:03
leveraging how do you replicate your
15:05
expertise in a a problem that you know
15:07
how to solve that matters a lot, right?
15:09
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I don't
15:12
want to overplay to our core customer,
15:15
but it's, you know, these water
15:16
operators,
15:18
you know, the the complexity of the job,
15:20
their formal train, you know, I mean,
15:22
they uh it's so difficult. There really
15:25
was a just a a true empathy for that. I
15:28
would not want to be faced with the
15:30
legal consequences of the decisions they
15:33
were being asked to make without, you
15:35
know, the adequate tools. And so,
15:39
uh, you know, it's a real, you know,
15:41
that's a tough job. Again, I know you
15:44
all have that same mentality about as a
15:46
core customer, these are the people that
15:48
get up and make drinking water safe
15:50
every day and face those challenges.
15:52
And, uh, you know, so it was really, you
15:56
know, just to make sure to make keep
15:57
getting them the best tools as they
15:59
continue to keep getting new challenges.
16:02
>> Absolutely. I love the way you tal you
16:04
just talked about that because I feel
16:06
like what you just highlighted was how
16:08
aligned you are with the pain that they
16:10
actually feel and so implementing a
16:13
solution like Fontis Blue is one of
16:15
those like how do you derisk and kind of
16:18
bring some d-risking to their decision-m
16:21
they have a lot of decisions they're
16:22
going to have to make
16:23
>> the margin for error the consequence of
16:26
getting it wrong is high the consequence
16:28
of getting it right all the time you
16:29
don't really get you know reward
16:34
operator. So you kind of hit the sweet
16:36
spot of the pain of like why should
16:42
we need to reduce as much complexity for
16:44
water operators as possible.
16:46
>> Yeah. And we all I mean we know that it
16:48
really was a simple decision to quit
16:51
adding the corrosion hit inhibitor at
16:53
Flint, right? You know, I mean, they
16:54
just and so often times it really is
16:58
that, you know, again, back to those
17:00
tradeoffs, you know, you just move the
17:02
needle a little bit. You know, that was
17:03
a little extreme totally getting rid of
17:05
a corrosion inhibitor, but you know,
17:07
certainly these small things that things
17:09
can get out of hand uh quickly.
17:12
>> Ohio faced harmful algolooms. You know,
17:15
40% of the water sources in Ohio have
17:18
measurable algo toxins. So the issue
17:20
isn't whether or not they're there, it's
17:23
how much and you know are they going to
17:25
get out of hand and you know quickly all
17:27
of a sudden um you can have an issue
17:30
like Toledo, right? You know those kinds
17:32
of things. So I think you're spot on,
17:35
Alex. I mean Isaac, sorry. I was but you
17:38
know that that definitely is uh you know
17:41
where it's at for them. And I've seen
17:43
some of the components of the Fontest
17:45
Blue platform where there's it was new
17:48
to me the concept of a jar test but kind
17:51
of being able to kind of automate and
17:54
give do
17:56
>> use machine learning for some scenario
17:59
planning and let um water operators
18:01
quickly understand like hey
18:03
>> what are the different what are the
18:05
different scenarios that I could look at
18:07
from a chemical composition
18:10
with that doing that much more rapidly
18:13
and with a little with a higher degree
18:15
of confidence.
18:17
>> But it's it's crazy too how even over
18:20
the and whether it's basically over 8 to
18:23
10 years that uh certain terminology
18:26
certain things that are happening
18:28
outside of the water space. So like even
18:31
flight simulators or VR, you know, just
18:34
as technology continues to move forward,
18:37
one of the nice things is that water
18:39
operators and the new ones that are
18:42
entering the workforce actually expect
18:44
that they will have some of these tools.
18:47
And so um again, you all both know well
18:50
all too well that we have a really risk
18:52
averse Yes.
18:54
>> uh you know, or technology adoption,
18:56
however you want to spin it. But um
18:58
they've still I think maybe don't get
19:00
enough credit that they are actually I
19:02
think I've seen that level of adoption
19:05
and willingness yeah to go that route
19:07
increase just because they know uh
19:10
without without those things that yeah
19:13
other things are going to happen. So um
19:15
it's exciting times to be in the space
19:17
as again you
19:18
>> it really it really is I mean and there
19:21
there are certain themes that
19:22
continuously pop up in this podcast.
19:24
Communications is one, but workforce
19:27
might be a very very close second to and
19:29
exactly to your point like we have to be
19:32
you we're going to have to rethink how
19:34
we onboard and recruit and because
19:36
there's not enough you know there's just
19:37
not enough pipeline right for folks
19:39
joining the workforce and I do think
19:41
it's technologies like Fontislue and you
19:43
know 120 and others that are going to
19:45
actually help um you know recruit and
19:49
help people stay in in the market. So we
19:51
couldn't agree more on that point Chris.
19:52
Yeah, I was just going to just add one
19:54
thing to that to the to the workforce,
19:56
but certainly I while we have a software
19:58
tool, I mean, even I know again with
20:01
with you all that there's still that
20:03
sort of consultive
20:06
>> uh supporting them in uh helping, you
20:10
know, uh upskill and create processes
20:13
for that workforce, you know, even as
20:15
they come over. So it's not just
20:16
obviously use of the tool but also
20:19
helping those teams
20:21
>> uh cross trainin and you know trans
20:23
again that skill transfer you is a key
20:25
component of all this that even just the
20:28
tools alone don't don't deliver. That's
20:30
a great
20:31
>> yeah you're not just modernizing the
20:32
technology you're modernizing the
20:35
processes that support the people. Um
20:37
and it's yeah
20:39
>> they have to go hand in hand.
20:40
>> Yeah greatly it's great. So um well
20:43
congratulations then on um your kind of
20:47
um acquisition with US Alco. Did you uh
20:51
walk us through I'm sure a lot of
20:53
entrepreneurs listening to this or if
20:54
there are any Isaac that are listening
20:56
to this might want to know how how did
20:58
that all come about? Um
21:00
>> would you mind sharing a little bit
21:01
about that?
21:02
>> Quick version is that you know we were
21:05
uh we had started in 2017. We had a
21:08
bootstrap mentality. We had a few uh
21:12
good individual investors that were also
21:15
excellent board members. Uh have to give
21:18
them a shout out. Dan Hampoo, Gary
21:20
Spring, and Peter Fisk. They were uh not
21:23
only investors but also very active in
21:26
uh mentoring, supporting the growth. But
21:28
so we were bootstrapped um had not taken
21:32
significant funding. We we knew we were
21:34
reaching that phase that we were going
21:35
to need to go and you know raise some
21:37
capital look look to grow the team and
21:40
then um USAO had reached out in 2023.
21:45
uh they were actually building a
21:47
competitive technology and uh were very
21:51
transparent about that. They wanted to
21:53
you know their core business is is uh
21:56
providing uh an excellent coagulant
21:59
portfolio and they were like hey we're
22:01
we're going to build out a digital tool
22:03
to help support that coagulant
22:05
portfolio. Uh but we hear great things
22:07
about Fontas. So we uh started that
22:10
conversation in 2023. uh they were very
22:15
uh clear about hey we would just love to
22:17
join forces because they were in the
22:19
early stages they'd been making and
22:21
selling coagulants onethird the country
22:23
drinks water treated with these uh
22:26
coagulants so it's a huge impact and uh
22:30
I actually slow played a little bit
22:32
Isaac and Megan because I don't think we
22:34
were ready to join them in 2023 so uh
22:38
basically there were some things I knew
22:40
we needed to get in place, made sure
22:43
that those were in place in 2024 and
22:46
then we actively reached out and then so
22:49
we went completely to hey let's just
22:53
join forces so I skipped
22:55
>> those seed round stages
22:58
>> etc and it was just very very fortunate
23:00
to find such a good alignment because
23:04
they were in the early stages of hey
23:06
knowing they needed to they wanted to
23:08
build out a digital portfolio tools to
23:11
support what their core business was.
23:13
And so timing,
23:15
uh, luck,
23:17
>> y
23:18
>> and what a great way to capitalize your
23:20
business because it's it's
23:23
fueling Fontis Blue to keep doing what
23:26
Fontis Blue does.
23:27
>> Yeah.
23:28
>> Yeah. There's, you know, I think a lot
23:29
of times I've heard stories where
23:32
companies are acquired or merged like
23:34
even like software with software and
23:35
it's like, you know, there were
23:36
different missions and visions. You
23:39
know, a lot of times there's a certain
23:40
amount of overlap, but this really
23:43
allowed me. I mean, they have the same
23:46
mission, vision, you know, want to be an
23:48
agent for good, you know, meaning on the
23:51
water space. And so, uh, you know, we're
23:54
very very fortunate to have that kind of
23:56
alignment. And again, I know, uh, I
24:00
haven't had a boss for a long time,
24:02
right? you know, being a professor,
24:03
being the CEO, but now, um, so I can say
24:06
the leadership team at USA is also just
24:09
top-notch, world class, uh, and, you
24:12
know, have this common mission, vision,
24:14
and they're really, uh, looking forward
24:16
to seeing, uh, that continue.
24:19
>> Yeah. A question that I get often from a
24:22
lot of early stage founders is this
24:25
notion of we're going to go our go to
24:27
market play is going to be partnerships
24:29
or we're going to weight partnerships
24:30
really heavy and we're going to go
24:31
straight to the big corporations and I
24:35
know 120 tried to do that and we failed
24:37
and luckily it didn't kill the business
24:39
but I mean we invested a lot of
24:40
resources trying to make a a you know
24:42
Goliath partnership work that did not.
24:45
I'm just curious, you know, Chris, what
24:47
advice, you know, you have a successful
24:49
outcome, but what advice would you give
24:51
to fellow entrepreneurs or CEOs that are
24:54
looking at these larger corporations for
24:56
either partnership or partnership to
24:58
acquire? Are there are there any things
24:59
that you did successfully well that that
25:01
you would say I, you know, consider
25:04
this?
25:06
>> So, uh, so we first met Megan through
25:09
Imagine H2O, right? And so I'll never
25:12
forget Patrick Key from Century gave a
25:15
talk about basically do you go for you
25:20
know that core first group of customers
25:23
and get those real champions for your
25:25
product that can say great things about
25:26
it or do you go for scale and you do he
25:29
was very clear that you need happy
25:32
customers you can leverage. Now, that
25:34
was my intuition, but hearing somebody
25:36
in the industry emphasize that that we
25:41
definitely were like, "Hey, let's make
25:43
sure that,
25:44
>> you know, for all the reasons that
25:46
obviously you want to make sure your
25:47
product's good, but it's again a very
25:49
much a reputation referral business,
25:52
break the water." And so,
25:54
>> um, you know, we can now confidently say
25:57
we've got the longest track record.
25:59
Those kinds of key key things. So I
26:02
would say you know it seems again very
26:05
simple but you know get really really
26:08
happy customers and then work backwards
26:11
you can create you know your marketing
26:13
materials around that you know who your
26:15
ideal customer profile is because you
26:18
know that even though it's a small group
26:21
you know that um there's just so many
26:22
reasons to to do that and worry about
26:25
scale later which gets to reason why I
26:27
was saying we weren't ready to handle
26:31
scale In 2023 when you said was coming
26:33
in 2024
26:35
>> we weren't ready both from a product and
26:38
from how we deliver the service and all
26:41
those other kinds of reasons.
26:42
>> That's such an important thing to
26:44
understand is like knowing when are you
26:46
do you have the right infrastructure set
26:48
up to support the scale. Scale is sounds
26:50
super super exciting to everyone until
26:54
you experience it and then you're like
26:56
oh I didn't prepare for the scale.
26:58
>> Yeah. Yeah. And my assumption is that
27:00
you know US Alco is expecting you to
27:02
scale. I mean to your point 14 to what
27:05
24ish I mean they want you to be in all
27:08
50 states and expecting the technology
27:10
and the people and the processes and
27:12
expecting the business to scale with
27:14
their growth plans. Is that correct?
27:16
>> Exactly. And so I while I would be
27:19
really happy to have that merger in 23
27:22
and avoided that another year of being a
27:24
founder with that stress. Yeah. I knew
27:26
that, you know, it would have been 2x
27:29
the stress post the acquisition if you
27:32
couldn't actually be like,
27:34
>> yeah, how do you interact with the teams
27:36
and, you know, make make things happen?
27:38
So yeah, there's obviously
27:40
uh they have a uh probably 20 30x size
27:46
uh footprint of the number. Yeah, I mean
27:48
the number of customers etc. Actually,
27:51
need to do my math better. It's much
27:53
larger than that. And so if you're going
27:55
to sell into that, um, yeah, you're
27:57
gonna have to be ready ready to roll.
27:59
>> Yeah.
28:00
>> Yeah, that's exciting.
28:00
>> Yeah. I'm curious as, um, now now as
28:04
you're on the US Alco side, like what
28:06
what do you see as what's next for, um,
28:08
for Fontis Blue and and, you know, where
28:11
where is US Alco looking at the water
28:13
market?
28:14
>> Yeah. So uh so I think you know kind of
28:17
the incremental piece but very important
28:20
piece is that uh USA one of their
28:24
intellectual property niches is that
28:27
they have a lot of different uh
28:29
proprietary blends of their uh aluminum
28:32
based coagulants and so our virtual jar
28:36
chemical dosing tool to accommodate that
28:39
vast. So it's not just like two
28:41
coagulants that our virtual jar tool has
28:43
to support. Now it may up to support
28:45
hundreds. So we in order to find not
28:48
only match the right tool with the
28:51
utility now we can match the right
28:53
coagulant that coagulant those
28:54
properties again that chemistry. So
28:56
while that may seem incremental, it is
28:58
really gamechanging and differentiating
29:00
to be able to now help kind of match
29:03
those up. And then uh obviously as we
29:06
said this regulatory and even future
29:09
regulatory whether it's currently
29:12
obviously PAS microlastics I mean like I
29:15
said it's uh that their challenges and
29:18
where uh the coagulant or the core
29:21
treatment processes fit in you know
29:24
their the water operations team's
29:27
portfolio if you will that's you know we
29:30
want to make sure that the tools are
29:32
being prepped to be ready for when those
29:35
things become, you know, very core to
29:38
what's going to be their, you know,
29:39
daytoday. So, like you said, you we all
29:42
know those things are coming and again,
29:46
you know, new decade, new regulations,
29:48
right? So,
29:49
>> new Yeah. new rules need new tools.
29:52
>> Yeah. Yeah.
29:54
>> Good for business, but not good for our
29:56
core customers. Yeah. Just adds to that
29:59
stress. Well, that's why they need
30:00
partners. I mean, like you like 120 that
30:02
are they have that in it together
30:04
mentality, right? That's why we said we
30:06
feel like sometimes we're 50% therapists
30:08
and 50% solution delivers because
30:10
sometimes you just need to say this, you
30:12
know, this isn't fair. Why do I have to
30:14
do this? I'm like, I know
30:17
it's because you do.
30:19
>> But again, cuz it increases the cost of
30:22
doing business for them, right? And then
30:24
we know Yeah. Obviously, their core
30:25
customers don't want to pay more for the
30:28
water. We all don't want to pay more for
30:30
our water, but yeah, it's just
30:32
necessary. It's Yep. Uh
30:34
>> yeah, I there's th this is this is a a
30:39
question we we didn't even put this on
30:40
the on the notes before, but you were
30:42
talking about Imagine H2O and it kind of
30:44
just brought to mind to me one of the
30:46
things that I've always loved is the
30:48
community of
30:50
um in water and the collaboration among
30:54
that community. And you know, we've even
30:56
done we've been able to um co-sponsor
30:59
events uh together with Fontis Blue or
31:02
others even when you're there's a
31:04
willingness to partner even if it's just
31:06
saying, "Hey, let's show up for the
31:08
industry and we don't even have a
31:10
technical partnership yet or we're not
31:11
integrated or those kind of things." And
31:13
so I'd love I would love your
31:15
perspective too on um how you feel about
31:18
the water community um as to the extent
31:22
that it supports um innovation on
31:24
entrepreneurs.
31:26
>> Yeah, it's just excellent observation
31:28
Isaac. right, that we're we're fortunate
31:31
that our our core customers, right,
31:35
Fatas customers and 120s, um they don't
31:40
have to compete like the city of Akran
31:43
doesn't have to compete with the city of
31:44
Indianapolis. So I think what makes that
31:48
useful is that they tend to be
31:51
collaborative I think in the sense that
31:53
they want to share best practices
31:55
amongst utilities because right you know
31:57
they're just serving people of
31:59
Indianapolis the best they can or the
32:01
city of Akran. So I think I want to try
32:03
and give them kind of credit for or you
32:06
know that the more that they've embraced
32:08
that um um you know you have great
32:11
people on water that want to obviously
32:14
uh come up with solutions for them. So,
32:16
um I think that uh that we're just
32:19
fortunate like we're not all competing
32:21
for the I mean we want to come up with
32:24
solutions with the same core customer
32:26
base but because they're not um like you
32:30
know selling in Indianapolis is not the
32:32
same as selling somewhere else. U just
32:35
that collaboration collaborative spirit
32:37
is just runs through. And uh lastly, you
32:40
know, again, the people in water that
32:42
want to serve water, I think, seem to
32:44
have that common theme of knowing that,
32:47
yeah, it's important and that gets
32:49
expressed different ways, but uh usually
32:53
for some reason it attracts that kind of
32:56
collaborative,
32:58
you know, core kind of group of people
33:00
as well. So,
33:01
>> yeah. Yeah. We all want to see good uh
33:04
good innovation win and and more of it,
33:06
right? Yeah. So I guess you know ending
33:09
on in the note of innovation
33:11
entrepreneurship
33:12
you know what's a single piece of advice
33:14
that you would give to an early stage
33:17
entrepreneur out there with um great
33:20
idea good technology
33:23
trying to make it happen. So, I've
33:25
enjoyed, you know, your podcast so far.
33:28
So, I don't want to shout out to like
33:30
one of the ones from before about
33:32
whether it was even yours, Megan, about,
33:34
you know, making sure you talk to your
33:35
customers and the original one with you
33:37
and Isaac, but so I'm not going to use
33:39
that one, but I do think that is a, you
33:41
know, you really must talk to your
33:44
customers. I know actually it was you
33:46
said, right, you took every customer
33:49
call you could in the early days, right?
33:51
I mean, you know that. So I just I guess
33:53
re-emphasize that one. But I do think uh
33:57
the one that I've reflected on the most
33:58
was the impact that I would say build
34:01
your true mentor
34:03
>> people network piece. Uh I think that uh
34:07
number one most of them won't be afraid
34:10
to tell you if you're a little off base
34:12
or create you know certain things but I
34:14
had very fortunate to have people tell
34:18
me you know hey Chris is this a business
34:20
a hobby? you know, just really press on
34:23
making sure, you know, that um if I
34:26
would have just kind of been in my own
34:27
little environment with the team and,
34:30
you know, trying to create a widget to
34:32
sell, but you know, getting really
34:34
building out that mentor network.
34:36
Obviously, imagine H2O as we brought up
34:38
helped expand that or there's different
34:41
ways you can expand that, but certainly
34:43
get good good resources, people that you
34:46
can talk to because being a founder is a
34:48
lonely
34:50
>> Yeah. uh pursuit. And so I think that's
34:52
also one way to um not only help build
34:55
the business but help navigate those
34:58
challenges as well.
35:00
>> That's great. Well, Chris, it is always
35:02
a pleasure to um to speak with you and
35:05
just thank you so much for taking the
35:06
time to be on the podcast today.
35:08
>> My pleasure and all the best to you and
35:11
the 120 team in 2026 as well.
35:14
>> Yeah, same. Thank you. And thank you all
35:17
so much for joining this conversation
35:20
with Chris Miller from US Alco Fontis
35:23
Blue. We love getting to have these
35:25
conversations. And so please, if you
35:28
enjoyed this conversation, like it,
35:30
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35:33
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35:34
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35:39
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