Latest / Beyond the Paycheck / Wealth on the Rails: How Amtrak's Benefits Leader Is Building Financial Futures for 24,000 Employees
Transcript
- Kelsey Willock (00:02.104) Welcome Robert Fortin, Senior Manager of Benefits Wealth at Amtrak. We are so excited to have you this Tuesday afternoon. To kick us off, I'd love for you to introduce us to yourself, where you're calling in from a little bit about your career and background and your current role today. I know there was a lot, but can't wait to learn more. Robert Fortin (00:19.759) Yeah, definitely. It's a pleasure getting to spend a little bit of time with you today. As you mentioned, I'm Robert Ford and Senior Manager of Benefits Wealth here at Amtrak. You know, we at Amtrak are not just focused on building retirement savings for our employees, but really wealth building throughout their career. It's a really exciting opportunity to not just focus on retirement, but also just to really focus on wealth building and really open up more avenues for employees' well-being or anything else. I grew up in pension consulting before I used to take actuarial exams and things like that. I didn't quite finish my exams. I decided that having a home life was more fun than studying for actuarial exams. So I got out of consulting and moved over to the plan sponsor side and really the best decision I ever made in really helping people build wealth and understand their retirement and other benefit programs at companies is just a very fulfilling calling. Kelsey Willock (01:18.178) and tell me a little bit about Amtrak as an organization. Robert Fortin (01:21.155) Yeah, so Amtrak, know, we, Amtrak has a very interesting history. Amtrak was really formed in the 1970s when a lot of private railroads were going bankrupt and out of service. So, you know, we inherited a lot of struggling rail lines throughout the company or country to really, you know, help move people around the country that don't want to fly or other things. It's really a good public service that we offer. Amtrak's about 24,000 employees, 20 of which are union employees. And, know, we're really just here to make sure that the public has great access to high quality transportation, especially in underserved areas where, you know, trains may not necessarily get to, you know, and, you know, we have a lot more trains on the East Coast because we have a lot more people living on the East Coast. So, you know, just a really quality American company. know, our core values are America's core values really just to serve the public and make sure that people can get to where they need to with ease. Kelsey Willock (02:23.81) I'm someone that deeply appreciates the Amtrak as someone born and raised in Chicago. Amtrak is kind of core part of life there. And also prefer to take trains than airbend. Robert Fortin (02:32.973) Yeah, I live in Portland, Oregon. actually took the empire builder from Portland to Chicago and back this summer with my family. was what a blast. Highly recommend. Kelsey Willock (02:38.442) Cool. Kelsey Willock (02:42.2) So cool. So before we dive into, I'm so curious about all the work that you do in the financial wellbeing space, but I wanna get to know you personally a little bit better. So tell me a little bit about your earliest memory of money. Robert Fortin (02:56.111) You know, this was a, this is a very interesting question for me. And it really brings me back is that, so I am the second oldest of 30 grandchildren on my mother's side. So my grandmother for our birthdays every year would buy us a $25 savings bond. So, you know, back. You know, my grandparents were products of World War II. So buying savings bonds and things like that were really critical part of just the culture back then. And, know, when you think about money and like, you know, that was my first experience that I had this little certificate that was a promise of one day in the future of giving me $25. Well, I actually still have them all. I have not cashed them in. So that $25 is really all of my $25 certificates really have a face value of a hundred dollars now. And they're no longer accruing interest anymore, according to those rules. it's, know one of these days are probably in cash them in, like to me, this is money that my, my grandmother gave me for my birthday, for my future. So it's just a, I don't know, maybe it's signed that I was going to be doing something like this and I've held onto them for so long, but it's just. That's my earliest memory of money. Kelsey Willock (04:15.072) I absolutely love that. And how do you think it's shaped how you think about security, freedom, or even responsibility? Robert Fortin (04:22.209) Well, I mean, I've always from a young age understand the time value of money. You know, I think that there's a portion of what you get now that you should take advantage of now. And I think I was installed a culture of savings as a kid growing up. you know, part of that is trying to find easier ways for employees and myself to save that doesn't really feel like it's saving. I think, you know, it's just. important that you have to diversify everything in your life. The only thing that you're in charge of is decisions you make. And when you choose to diversify, you're still expected value of happiness now versus later is going to be a lot better if you just take a little bit of suffering now and savings now rather than spending everything you bring in. So, I mean, it's really as simple as that in my perspective. There's just so you don't, you have to do a little bit to expand over time. more than anything else. Kelsey Willock (05:23.374) It's so hard to do because we live in such a society of instant gratification. Loving your future self today is a real challenge and takes intention, but it's so cool that from such a young age, I don't know the age that your grandmother, oh, she gave it to you over the course of time, but what a beautiful lesson to say, I'm not gonna spend this. And it probably had to do with the fact it wasn't cash. You know, had the chicken accident. Robert Fortin (05:32.943) It really does. Robert Fortin (05:44.833) Yeah, it really helped. mean, I think I have ones from when I was four years old until I was 16. So, I mean, it's pretty wild, actually. Kelsey Willock (05:50.894) So. Kelsey Willock (05:57.218) What was your first job? Robert Fortin (05:59.437) Well, my first job and I do consider a job is I used to bring in the trash cans from a next door neighbor and my next door neighbor would pay me a quarter a can every week. So he had four cans. So I got a buck a week and I had that job for years. I mean, I would take that was quarters and you know, usually didn't pay me every week. So I get like three, four or five bucks and you know, I could go up to. You know, I'm a product, I'm a kid of the 80s, so would get on my skateboard or my bike and ride up to the arcade store or the arcade and be able to play a few games or head up to 7-Eleven and get a Slurpee. But, you know, I was always diligent the second that I got home, I was going to go take care of those cans more than anything else. So I still consider it job, even though it was very low pay. Kelsey Willock (06:52.022) A job's a job. You got a paycheck from it or you got cash from it. How do you think your money story, whether it has to do with your grandmother, you know, in the savings bonds, taking out the trash, how has it impacted how you show up for your people and think about compensation, benefits, financial well-being and more? Robert Fortin (06:54.049) Exactly. Exactly. Robert Fortin (07:13.943) Yeah, I mean, even today I struggle. think it's really critical that we're doing more as employers in the society and making it easier and having less barriers and doing more automatic things for employees. You know, I think that when you, when you set people up for success about a certain way, you know, is very impactful. I really struggle when it's hard. Like the thing that I struggled the most about today is I have a lot of ideas, a lot of programs that we want employees to take advantage of. And it's getting people to say yes or being willing to jump in more than anything else. you know, like I think this is the $24 billion question for any employee benefits, team is how to drive engagement. It is just, it's just a struggle to get people to like recognize what's there and what they can be taken advantage of. And this again, varies from employee population to employee population. You know, your culture and the culture of each company is going to be different. so one thing is not going to work for everybody. The only thing I really think that does work is automatic programs and getting things in people into savings without them knowing it more than anything else. So. Kelsey Willock (08:31.244) you know, going into the history of the opt out and the genius behind it is so real. know, people don't want to opt into things necessarily, but when they see their retirement growing and those opt out programs, so many more people participate. It's just such a whole beautiful thing. Robert Fortin (08:46.575) I mean, so yeah, yeah, I have the fortune and ability that I go to a lot of professional conferences in this area. And I've actually had the opportunity to speak on a panel with one of the architects at the pension protection act of 2006, where they made auto enrollment, auto escalation and target day funds and all these things that we have today, the law of the land and allowable and high safe harbors. know, I think without that. our country and our people saving in it would be much worse off if these programs weren't in place. I was even doubtful at the time. I'm like, everybody's going to opt out of this. Well, guess what? They didn't. Right. And we are all better off because of these types of programs. And one of the interesting stories that the gentleman, his name is Mark Irie, said was in the example legislation, they get an example of, hey, You know what's okay? You can enroll people at 3 % and auto-escalate them 1 % every year. And it's totally fine, right? Because it was a sample thing in the legislation about an example. One of his biggest regrets is that he didn't set that number higher to begin with in the legislation, because they were worried that employers were not going to put this in place because it was going to be too big, too sticky a bill to have, right? Kelsey Willock (09:48.366) and Robert Fortin (10:03.823) So now in more recent years, secure two and secure two 2.0 have come out with more guidance on and more ways to try to incentivize employers to do these things. You know, we could have been in a better place today. I mean, we're in a good place because it's it happened and it's been a success, but he regrets that he's like, I should have made that number like five or 6%. Or I should have just started at seven and put that in the guidance. Cause all the employers would have done that if we had just set that bar as the acceptable one right there. So it's just wild where just these little changes really can impact the future. and I think that's just the way that we as a country and like from a legislative standpoint, as well as an employer. offering benefits really need to ramp it up and get more employees engaged in something that they don't have to think about. It's really just going to be there for their future. Kelsey Willock (10:56.706) Are there any changes that you've seen at Amtrak that have helped boost engagement? Robert Fortin (11:02.159) You know, thing about engagement is... You know, there's one thing to do an employee survey, right? Cause you're going to have a certain percentage of employees that are going to go out and take the survey. And sometimes the loudest voices are going to raise the top. If you do a survey, you know, I'm kind of a proponent, more of a Lincoln method where you really need to get out and talk to people to understand what's going on. And we do have, depending on year to year, we do. Kelsey Willock (11:29.902) Mm. Robert Fortin (11:36.015) do a lot of employee benefit fairs or what we call here at Amtrak safety fairs where, you know, we get together and talk to employees about safety as well as what the benefit programs they have. I myself love riding the train. So every chance that I get, I actually get out and ride the train. And when I'm on the train, I'm back at work, even if I'm going on a vacation or something like that, because I love our employees. love just hanging out with them while I'm on the train to pick their brain. I mean, some of it's self-interested, because like, want our employees to know more about it. And one thing about our employees is like, even though they're on one side of the country, you can say one thing on here and eventually we'll reach the other side of the country because they talk to each other all day long and word spreads, right? So, especially for employees who really have a challenging life in how they engage. Our employees, you know, we're not home for long periods of time because again, they're on the train. It's a struggle sometimes to get through to them and making sure that they can understand and take advantage of all these great offerings that we have for them. So, you more than anything else, it's getting out and talking to your employees. Like don't just be in an office thinking about what we can do. Like plan employee meetings if it's just to get out there and hear what they have to say in Des Moines or down in Miami or wherever it is, you know, try to find budget to get out there and do those things. So that, you know, you can hear what they're thinking. That's more than just a survey. It's just my perspective. And then you learn more about what resonates. Kelsey Willock (13:11.904) And it makes me think about, you know, like Yelp reviews. You either see the best of the best or the worst of the worst. And you miss a lot of the meat in the middle. And conversation is where that kind of feedback is shared. Was the restaurant good? It was great. Did you leave a review? No, most people don't. Most people opt out of it. So I love this kind of, you know, get out of the quantitative and hear the qualitative on the ground. Robert Fortin (13:19.823) Right. Robert Fortin (13:38.543) Yeah, I mean, there is definitely going to be selection bias there, but at the same time, I think there's the opportunity to make a personal connection with employees is important to be able to hear what the real thing is. Cause you have to balance the surveys and those quantitative metrics or what your vendors are reporting hearing versus, get out and talk to people from different locations and hear and feel what they're saying and wanting more than anything else. So. Kelsey Willock (13:41.774) Mm-hmm. Kelsey Willock (14:04.226) When you're thinking about making these types of changes, whether it's reacting to feedback or you're hearing, whether it's understanding you need to boost engagement, what's the kind of measurable impact that the organization is looking for? Robert Fortin (14:19.183) Well, I mean, it depends on the organization. So, you know, for Amtrak right now, you know, we receive quite a bit of funding from the federal government. So, you what we're trying to do is build a profitable railroad, right? So we have to weigh in both the benefits we pay for employees who attract and retain by also being good stewards of our federal funding dollars to make sure that we're spending our money wisely, right? So Kelsey Willock (14:33.71) Mm. Robert Fortin (14:48.365) You know, it's a challenging proposition when you want to, we want to grow as a company to provide more service. We want to open up more, more, more passenger ways, but again, balancing the costs of those versus just, you know, having a checkbook to write out and pay. Right. So it really, in my experience as a benefits professional, we go through ebbs and flows about, you know, the rising, the rising costs of healthcare. You know, retirement is more of a promise. It's more of a fixed promise unless you have to have a plan design where you might be able to start providing a richer match or other type of contribution. You know, there is one pot of money as an employer about what your spend is going to be. And it's really about finding the high value programs to be able to drive and attract and retain and keep employees around. know, railroads are a little different in that we're not part of the social security system. We're part of the railroad retirement system, which actually predates social security as a federal retirement program. You know, it's an interesting equation for us to factor in pay versus the contributions that we make to this federal program versus the amount of money that we may make to different types of employees when it comes to 401k and whatnot. it really, you know, the biggest challenge is, you know, it's industry specific and it's also just historical perspective. specific about what type of benefits are being offered. I grew up in a pension environment. I took one of my first professional jobs because that employer still had an active pension plan. And while I was there, they did make changes to that pension plan. So I think it's a spectrum on how the costs play. really comes down into, the reality is that we have a much more transient workforce than we did. 30, 40 years ago, right? Whereas people don't necessarily value a pension like they did or understand it, right? So, you know, I think it's it's, it's, it's exciting time, but also a challenging time. think that there's other new types of benefit programs that are able to hit employees and, and, and provide value to them currently that we didn't really have before. There's Robert Fortin (17:10.191) There's programs like lifestyle spending accounts where you get a bucket of money to spend on X, right? You know, there, you know, it really comes down to that. I think the under the most important thing is to understand your underlying demographic of people and what drives them and what they want the most. And that's really going to help you shape your portfolio more than anything else. You know, I have biases. I'm a wealth. retirement person. So I actually would like to see more people saving for their future. That's not everybody's immediate need, right? So it really, I mean, that the hard part of this is it varies. You really need to understand what your workforce is. You need to know what you want your workforce to look like in five, three to five years. And that's going to inform you on what type of decisions you make more than anything else. Kelsey Willock (17:38.346) I just... Kelsey Willock (18:01.038) And last question for you, as we speak about the future, what trend do you think will shape the experience for the employee most over the next year? Robert Fortin (18:09.005) I mean, as far as trends, really do think that people do want more choice and employers want to give more choice. My only concern on choice is really the complexity that choice gives you. So I think that choice can be done. I do not think it's easy or simple. You know, what I'm actually hoping for is that more partners and vendors and things like that can help us enable choice. I am more concerned about legislation of old school rules about one narrow thing that doesn't take into account that choice means that some people from our, you know, non-discrimination rules and other types of rules may not benefit. So giving choice actually, it's not always easy to do with the current legislative landscape. So if there was a revamp on, on allowing employers choice on how they contribute to everybody and not, you know, without necessarily the perspective of the highly comp versus non highly comp. Cause my opinion is almost every employer I've been at, they want to take care of their employees. They want to track and keep the employees, but the rules kind of make the rules are good, but the intent of the rules is to make sure everybody's treated fairly. And I feel like there's a way to treat everybody fairly and, and allow more choice into the system. Kelsey Willock (19:27.574) Robert, it's been just such a pleasure speaking with you today. I could continue this conversation for another 30 minutes to probably an hour. Some of the key takeaways I took from our conversation is you really need to get out and talk to your people to really understand what their needs are, what's going on and how they're feeling. Get outside the survey and automating engagement strategy. We've seen it work for retirement, find other ways it could work in other tools and resources. How can our listeners connect with you beyond this conversation? Robert Fortin (19:57.731) Yeah, so I'm on LinkedIn, Robert Fortin, but I also am a guest instructor for the International Foundation of Employee Benefit Programs. So if you're looking for, if you're an HR professional or union representative or somebody who wants to learn how qualified retirement plans work, you can come. Kelsey Willock (20:41.518) Well, geek to geek. Thank you so much, Robert. I appreciate your time. I can't wait for listeners to tune in and I hope you have a great rest of your week.