Latest / Ebbs of History / When Germany Defended the Wrong Country
Transcript
- Jason: Lessons we've learned today. Time for the Fun Fact Challenge! This day in History! to the ebbs of history the show where we dive into the strangest wildest and sometimes downright creepiest the past has to offer From dancing to pirate queens. You'll laugh. You'll gasp You'll even groan at my impeccable dad jokes, but most importantly We'll learn how history is way cooler than your textbook ever told you. We're your history loving hosts, Zoe. Gavin. And I'm Jason. And in every episode, the three of us will take a quick trip through time and see what lessons we can still learn today. This is the ebbs of history. Do do do. Zoe: Welcome to the ebbs of history, the show where we dive into the strangest, wildest, and sometimes downright creepiest stories the past has to offer. From dancing plagues to pirate queens, you'll laugh, you'll gasp, you'll even groan at my impeccable dad jokes. But most importantly, we'll learn how history is way cooler than your textbook ever told you. We're your history-loving hosts, Zoe. Gavin. Jason: We're your history loving hosts, Zoe. Gavin. I'm Jason. And in every episode, the three of us will take a quick trip through time and see what lessons we can still learn today. This is the Heads of History. Do do do do do do do do do do do. Hey there, history lovers! Welcome back to another episode of Ebs of History. We're so glad you're here with us again. Zoe, Gavin, how was everyone's week? Hey there history lovers welcome back to another episode of Edds with History we're so glad you're here with us again Zoe, Gavin, how was everyone's week? Good, um it's the weekend right now haven't really done much. Sounds good. a long time that we haven't done something on the weekends. Yeah. feels great. Yeah. Yeah. We need a break for sure. Yeah. Just ate lunch that was good. Zoe: That's good. It's first time in a long time that we haven't done something on the weekends. This feels great. We needed a break. Jason: It's the first time in a long time that we haven't done something on the weekends. yeah, we needed a break for sure. Good. Alright, Zoe, you like World War II history, I do. Well, you're gonna love today's topic. involves a dead body, a fake identity, a sardine fisherman, Adolf Hitler, and the future creator of James Bond. That is like a combination of things. That's right. We had a trivia thing about the creator of James Bond. We did. Zoe: Alright, Zoe, you like World War II history, I do. Well, you're gonna love today's topic. Let's go. It involves a dead body, a fake identity, a sardine fisherman, Adolf Hitler, and the future creator of James Bond. That is like a combination of things. We had a trivia thing about the creator of James Bond. We did. Jason: That is like a combination of things that is just like Today we are talking about Operation Mincemeat, one of the most bizarre, brilliant, and unhinged deception operations in the history of modern warfare. This is the true story of how a dead man who never actually existed helped save thousands of allied lives, fooled the most dangerous regime of the 20th century, and changed the course of World War II. Buckle up. Gavin, do you know who the allied forces in World War II are? Gavin, do you know who the allied forces in World War II are? ⁓ the side that's not on the Nazis. ⁓ That's correct, but do know what the two main countries are? England and Correct. Those are the two main. ⁓ Also their partners like Canada, Australia, and many many others. Zoe: do you know who the allied forces in World War II are? ⁓ the side that's not on the Nazis. That's ⁓ but do know ⁓ the two main countries are? ⁓ ⁓ America? those are the two main. ⁓ Also their partners like Canada, Australia, and many many others. ⁓ Wasn't the Soviets on... with... yeah. I guess I wouldn't, I forgot about that one now. And France. I just think it's so weird because of what happened during World War II and after. Yeah. Because the after really started during World War II. Yeah. The Cold War started World War II. was... It really did. Zoe! Jason: Yes, I guess I would I forgot about that one. Yeah, so that's the third one I just think it's so weird because of what happened during World War two and after because the after Really started during World War two Yeah, it really did ⁓ you know the access powers? Zoe: Do know the access powers? Germany, Italy, and Japan. Correct. Jason: Italy and Japan. Correct. Alright, the spring of 1943. The ⁓ allied have just finished clearing the Axis powers out of North Africa. It was a massive grinding victory. Now they need to push into Europe. They need a foothold. The most logical and strategically critical target is the island of Sicily, right at the toe of Italy's boot. ⁓ Take and you crack open southern Europe like a can of sardines. ⁓ But here's the problem. The Germans know Sicily is the obvious target. The island is sitting right there, practically waving at you from North African coast. So the Germans had fortified it very heavily. A direct assault could cost tens of thousands of allied lives. So the question facing British intelligence was, how do you convince an entire enemy military to look the other way? The answer, and I promise you this is real, was a dead man with a briefcase. Let's go back a few years, 1939, very, very beginning of the war. A British Naval Intelligence Officer named Rear Admiral John Godfrey circulates a document called the trout memo. The trout memo compares deceiving the enemy to fly fishing. You dangle something tempting and you hope the fish bites. The memo lists over two dozen wild schemes for misleading the Germans. Item number 28 on that list reads, and I quote, a suggestion, not a very nice one. The idea? Let a dead body wash ashore carrying fake secret documents. Let the enemy find the documents and believe they're real. Now the memo was issued under Godfrey's name, but historians are pretty confident the real author was his personal assistant, a young naval officer named Lieutenant Commander Ian Fleming. Does that name sound familiar to you two? Yes. It still does. Because I'm curious. Oh, the person that you mentioned. That's right. Now the memo was issued under Godfrey's name. But historians are pretty confident the real author was his personal assistant, a young naval officer named Lieutenant Commander Ian Fleming. Does that name sound familiar to you? It does, but I don't know who it is. ⁓ the person that made James Bond. That's Yes, the same Ian Fleming that was the answer to one of our trivia questions last week. The man who would one day create James Bond. ⁓ Zoe: Let a dead body wash ashore carrying fake secret documents. Let the enemy find the documents and believe they're real. Now the memo was issued under Godfrey's name. But historians are pretty confident the real author was his personal assistant, a young naval officer named Lieutenant Commander Ian Fleming. Does that name sound familiar to you too? Yes. That was by no... Cause from trivia, cause it was... Oh, the person that mentioned Godfrey. That's right. Jason: Yes, the same Ian Fleming that was the answer to one of our trivia questions last week. The man who would one day create James Bond. It turns out 007's creator was literally in the business of coming up with outlandish spy schemes before he started even writing about them. ⁓ really funny. ⁓ fast forward to 1942. Two British intelligence officers pick up that idea and decide to actually run with it. The first was Ewan Montague, a barrister turned naval intelligence officer. Do you guys know what a barrister is? do you know? barrister is basically an attorney in England. call them barristers. Zoe: forward to late 1942 two British intelligence officers pick up that old idea and decide to actually run with it the first was Ewan Montague a barrister turned naval intelligence officer Do you guys know what a barrister is? Julie, do you know? No. barrister is basically Jason: It's like a lawyer Yeah. Now the second guy, ⁓ going to give you the spelling of his name and I want you to tell me how to say it. Okay? Okay. First name is Charles. That one's easy. Last name spelled ⁓ Now the second guy, I'm going to give you the spelling of his name and then I want you to tell me how to say it. First name is Charles, that one's easy. Last name spelled C-H-O-L-M-O-N-D-E-L-E-Y. ⁓ Zoe: I'm give you a dispelling of his name and then want you to tell me how to say it okay first name is Charles that one's last name spelled CHOL ⁓ O N D ⁓ Jason: How do you think that is pronounced? How do you think that is pronounced? Co-mon-dely. Zoe: How do you think that is pronounced? Troll Mondalee. Okay. Chumlee. Chumlee? Chumlee. Just simple two syllable chumlee. That's like Utah names. That's right. Well, Chumlee and Montague are an odd couple. Chumlee is an RAF officer with an inventive almost theatrical mind. Jason: Chumlee. Chumlee. Just simple two syllable chumlee. Nuts right? Well Chumlee and Montague are an odd couple. Chumlee is an RAF officer with an inventive almost theatrical mind. Montague is sharp, methodical, and deeply detail oriented. Together they form a committee that will take the world's weirdest spy plan from a footnote in a memo to an operation approved by Winston Churchill himself. Core idea. We saw that thing from Jacksepticeye like that Winston Churchill was like a terrible person Yes, I really really really want to look into that because I did not know that. That Winston Churchill is actually a horrible horrible person. know, he took Britain through the war and everything but like in actuality he was just personally he was a horrible person. Zoe: Montague was sharp, methodical, and deeply detail-oriented. Together they formed a committee that will take the world's spy plan from a footnote in a memo to an operation approved by Winston Churchill himself. idea? We saw that thing from Jacksepticeye that Winston Churchill was a terrible person. Yes, I really, really, really want to look into that because I did not know that. ⁓ wasn't there watching that one. That Winston Churchill is actually horrible. Jason: other than like... Zoe: Well to get something through a war you need to not be a really good person like if you think about it like But it makes sense because it's like you can't be like the best person in the world if you want to run a nation through a war and be on the winning side of the war Jason: It's like doesn't relate to World War two it's like It's... Yeah, it's other things and how he treated people and how he felt about certain groups of people. Yeah, I gotta do some research on it because I don't want to say too much because I don't know for sure, but yeah. in the world if you want to run a nation through a war. Be on winning side of the war. I'll do some research and maybe we'll take a look at it because it is it's part of crazy history where you've got this this figure that is so big in history and everybody loves him and all that kind of stuff but then you come to find out that there's really a darker side to him so maybe we'll do that in the future. I'll add it to my list. The core idea. ⁓ Find a dead body. Dress as a British military officer. Give it completely fabricated identity. Complete with personal belongings, love letters, a photo of a fiancee, theater ticket stubs, the works. Plant fake military documents on the body, suggesting the Allies plan to invade Greece and Sardinia instead of Sicily. Then drop that body in the ocean near Spain, where it where it will wash ashore and hopefully the Spaniards will pass the documents to the Germans. Zoe: then drop that body in the ocean near Spain where it will wash ashore and hopefully the Spaniards will pass the documents to the Germans. Because Spain was under fascist rule at this point. They technically weren't in the war, but they were in the war on the side of the Nazis that Franco ran it like Hitler ran Germany. 100%. They technically stayed neutral, but if you really look at it, yeah, they were not neutral. Jason: Franco ran it like Hitler ran Germany. They technically stayed neutral but if you really look at it, yeah, they were not neutral. Zoe: It was kind of like US bringing stuff. The Lend-Lease Act? Yeah. huh. Yeah. All right. Now comes a part of the story that gets both deeply sad and deeply strange. To pull this off, Chumlee and Montague needed an actual human body. Not a murder victim, not a soldier, someone whose death was accidental or natural, who had no close relatives actively searching for them, and whose cause of death would be consistent with drowning. Jason: The Lend-Lease Act? Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. All right. Now comes a part of the story that gets both deeply sad and deeply strange. To pull this off, Chumlee and Montague needed an actual human body. Not a murder victim, not a soldier, someone whose death was accidental or natural, who had no close relatives actively searching for them, and whose cause of death would be consistent with drowning. or at least wouldn't immediately be obvious as something else if the Spanish coroner looked at it. With help of a London pathologist, they found their man. Spelling test number two. I'm gonna give you his name, the spelling of his name and you tell me how to pronounce it. ⁓ ⁓ Glendor. Glinder. Glinder. Okay. So it's a Welsh name. Yeah. I can tell. So this is his first name. I'm going to butcher the actual pronunciation, it's Glendur. We are close. You're close. But it's been anglicized to Glendor. So I'm just going to call him Glendor. Glinder? Okay, Zoe? ⁓ it's a Welsh name. ⁓ So this is his first name, but I'm going to butcher the ⁓ pronunciation, but it's Glen Dewar. ⁓ close, but it's been Anglicized to Glen door. So I'm just going to call him Glen door. ⁓ Zoe: Glendor. Glinder. Glinder? Okay. Zoe? Glinder. So it's a Welsh name. Yeah, I can tell. ⁓ So is his first name. ⁓ huh. But I'm gonna butcher the actual pronunciation, but it's Glendur. ⁓ We close. We are close. But it's been ⁓ Anglicized Glendor. So I'm just gonna call him Glendor. Jason: Glendor Michael was his full name. So Michael was his last name. Zoe: Glendor Michael was his full name, so Michael was his last name. Jason: Glendor Michael was a 34-year-old Welsh laborer who had drifted to London after a hard life in Wales. He had no known relatives. He died in January of 1943 after apparently ingesting rat poison, most likely accidentally while scavenging for food. He died alone, in poverty, and largely unknown. Nobody came looking for him. Chumlee and Montague selected Michael's body carefully. The rat poison he had ingested had caused liver damage, which in a medical examination could potentially be confused with damage consistent with immersion in seawater. It wasn't a perfect cover, but it was workable, especially if the examination wasn't done by a top forensic specialist. Now the team had the body, what they needed was a person. Over the coming weeks, Chumlee and Montague constructed one of the most elaborate fake identities in history. They named him Captain Acting Major William Martin of the Royal Marines. They gave him a military ID card, a silver chain with St. Christopher medal on it, a photo of his quote unquote fiance, a woman named Pam, actually a photo of a civilian clerk working for MI5 who agreed to help them, a tender love letter from Pam written by the same MI5 clerk, a letter from his father. A bill from his tailor. Receipts from his hotel. Stubs from a theater show he had attended just days before his supposed death. And an overdraft notice from his bank. Because a real person would absolutely have an overdraft notice. ⁓ my god. Martin. Zoe: What was his last name again? Sorry there was a- I'm sorry, William Martin. Is there anything after that? Captain Acting Major William Martin of Royal Marines. That better be a question, because I just gave it the answer. Okay, thank you. Sorry. single detail was designed to create the impression of a real man with a real life. A man who had been busy and in love and slightly broke. Just like everyone else. Jason: Stubs from a theater show he had attended just days before his supposed death. And an overdraft notice from his bank. Because a real person would absolutely have an overdraft notice. What was his last name again? Sorry, there was a little bit. Martin. I'm sorry, William Martin. Those are anything after that. Captain Acting Major William Martin of Royal Marines. No. That better not be a question because I just gave it the answer. ⁓ Every single detail was designed to create the impression of a real man with a real life. A man who had been busy and in love and slightly broke, just like everyone else. The critical item was a briefcase handcuffed to his wrist. Inside, a letter from Lieutenant General Archibald Nye to General Harold Alexander discussing invasion plans for Greece and Sardinia. Discussing invasion plans for Greece and sardinia who are the people the archibald who? Lieutenant General Archibald Nye, sending a letter to General Harold Alexander. The letter was written in the casual, confident tone of men who assumed it would never ever be read by the enemy. Because real secret documents aren't like James Bond villain monologues. They're chatty and offhand, which actually makes them even more convincing. Zoe, if you were reading a letter from one British general to another that said, in so many words, yeah yeah, Sicily is just a cover, the real targets are Greece and Sardinia. Would you believe it, or would you smell a rat? What does smell of that mean? Like, like it was planted, it's not real. A false. Something's not right. It's exactly right. It's a false. I mean, if it looked official enough, I would probably believe it. mean, like, I know that's not I'm supposed to do, like to blame things that first look. I mean, if it, I mean, I would do my research, but if I had no research, I would probably just benefit. Yeah, because if. Yeah, because what if it's true? Zoe: Like like they was planted it's not real ⁓ I Mean if it looked official enough, I would probably believe it I mean like I know that's not what I'm supposed to do like just believe things that first look But I mean if it I mean I would do my research, but if I had no research I would probably just benefit. Yeah, because if Yeah, because because what if it's true we want to prepare Jason: Right something something's not right. It's exactly right a farce No Exactly Gavin any thoughts? please? In April 1943, William Martin's body, packed in a specially designed container filled with dry ice to preserve it, was loaded onto a British submarine HMS Serif. The crew was told they were transporting highly classified meteorological equipment. They were not told there was a dead man in the canister. It took 10 days to reach their destination, during which the submarine was bombed twice by enemy aircraft. But in the early morning hours of April 30th, 1943, 83 years ago today, Zoe: The crew was told they were transporting highly classified meteorological equipment. They were not told there was a dead man in the canister. took 10 days to reach their destination, during which the submarine was bombed twice by enemy aircraft. But in the early morning hours of April 30th, 1943, 83 years ago today, Wait, that's so cool. HMS Serif surfaced off the coast of Huelva in southwestern Spain. The officers, and only the officers, carefully lowered William Martin into the water. The submarines engines revved so the wash would push the body toward the shore. Then they dove and disappeared into the Atlantic. Jason: HMS Serif surfaced off the coast of Huelva in southwestern Spain. The officers, and only the officers, carefully lowered William Martin into the water. The submarine's engines revved so the wash would push the body toward the shore. Then they dove and disappeared into the Atlantic. A hours later, a sardine fisherman off the coast of Fuelva spotted something floating in the water. He pulled it ashore. It was the body of British officer in uniform, his briefcase still handcuffed to his wrist. Local Spanish authorities recovered the body and the documents. Spain, under dictator Francisco Franco, was officially neutral in World War II, but it was secretly sharing intelligence with the Nazis. Zoe: A hours later, a sardine fisherman off the coast of Huelva spotted something floating in the water. He pulled it ashore. It was the body of British officer in uniform, his briefcase still handcuffed to his wrist. Local Spanish authorities recovered the body and the documents. Spain, under dictator Francisco Franco, was officially neutral in World War II, but it was secretly sharing intelligence with the Nazis. Not so secretly. Jason: True to form, Spanish intelligence passed copies of the documents to the ABWARE, the German Military Intelligence Service. I guess that would be pronounced AB-ver. In German. In German. Zoe: True to form, Spanish intelligence passed copies of the documents to the ABWARE, the German Military Intelligence Service. I guess that would be pronounced AB-ver. In German? In German. Can I go to the Jason: True to form, Spanish intelligence passed copies of the documents to the ABWARE, the German Military Intelligence Service. I guess that would be pronounced ABWARE. In German? In German. Can I go to the before returning the originals to the British. The British brilliantly then spent several frantic days sending urgent diplomatic cables demanding the return of Major Martin's documents, which of course made the Germans even more convinced that the documents were genuine. Why would the British be so desperate to get them back unless they were real, right? The Germans analyzed the documents, they checked the personal items on the body, they consulted their own experts, and they concluded this was real. This British officer had died in a plane crash over the Atlantic. and the documents he was carrying revealed the Allies actual invasion plan. Adolf Hitler personally approved moving significant German forces away from Sicily and toward Greece and Sardinia. Phil Marshall Rommel was even dispatched to Greece. The panzer divisions were repositioned. Sicily, the actual target, was left comparatively undermanned. Adolf Hitler personally approved moving significant German forces away from Sicily and toward Greece and Sardinia. Wow. Field Marshal Rommel was even dispatched to Greece. The panzer divisions were repositioned. Sicily, the actual target, was left comparatively undermanned. ⁓ my god. It was all a trickery, you see. A ruse that you fell for. Hook line and sinker. Zoe: Field Marshal Rommel was even dispatched to Greece. The Panzer divisions were repositioned. Sicily, the actual target, was left comparatively undermanned. This kind of reminds me of the on the battlefields they would put like props of like tanks and stuff to fool them that kind of like this is like kind of what it gives as well it's just like just another Jason: Thank you. battlefields they would put like props of like tanks and yes you know they actually started building another Paris yeah to try and trick the Germans into bombing the fake Paris yeah yeah They would put like props of like tanks and stuff to fool them. This is like kind of what it gives. Just another part of this. know there's a name for it. just can't remember it. A lose. Zoe: part of this. know there's a name for it, just can't remember it. Like a specific name. For what they did. Jason: What? Yeah. Zoe: where oh i remember that yeah Jason: That was one of those- those ruses. On July 10, 1943, approximately 160,000 Allied troops stormed the beaches of Sicily. The Germans were caught almost completely off guard. The invasion succeeded far faster and at a far lower cost than anticipated. Within 38 days, Sicily fell to the Allies. Wow, I mean... It worked! Uh huh, Wow. I mean, like... That's part of why they won the war. Like, that was one of the big moments that went in the war, you know? Zoe: On July 10th, 1943, 160,000 Allied troops stormed the beaches of Sicily. The Germans were caught almost completely off guard. The invasion succeeded far faster and at a far lower cost than anticipated. Within 38 days, Sicily fell to the Allies. Wow. I mean... And Sicily is in Italy, which is an Axis power. So that was a big... Jason: The deception helped precipitate the fall of Benito Mussolini who was ousted by his own government just weeks later. Zoe: The deception helped precipitate the fall of Benito Mussolini, who was ousted by his own government just weeks later. Italy would eventually switch sides and become part of the Allies. The road to Allied victory in Europe had been opened. At least mainland Europe. Jason: Yeah, absolutely. Italy would eventually switch sides and become part of the Allies. The road to Allied victory in Europe had been opened. Winston Churchill famously received the message confirming the operation's success. His reply was three words, mincemeat swallowed whole. Glendor Michael's role in all of this was kept completely secret for decades. The operation itself was partially declassified in 1953, but Michael's true identity wasn't publicly revealed until 1998, 55 years after his body was used to help win the war. Today, Glendor Michael is buried in the cemetery at Huelva, Spain under a headstone that reads, William Martin, born on 29th of March 1907. Whose birthday is that? Is that me? Is that me? All right, I'm going to... William Martin, born 29th March 1907, died 24th April 1943, beloved son of John Glendor Martin and the late Antonia Martin of Cardiff, Wales. Dolce et decorum es pro patria mori, which means it is sweet and honorable to die for your country. 55 years after his body was used to help win the Today, Glendor Michael is buried in the cemetery at 12th of Spain under a headstone that reads, William Martin, born on 29th of March, 1907. Whose birthday is that? Zoe's? Oh my God. William Martin, born 29th of March, 1907, died 24th of April, 1943, beloved son of John Glendor. In 1998, however, a second plaque was added acknowledging his real identity. Glendor Michael Martin. A homeless man from ⁓ who died alone and helped save thousands of lives and changed the course of the most destructive war in human history. ⁓ HISTYOGAPHEEEE There is not much to the historiography of Operation Mincemeat because its existence was kept under wraps for years, as you would expect from a top-secret wartime deception. The operation was first partially revealed in 1953 when Ewan Montagu published a book called The Man Who Never Was, which became a bestseller and was adapted into a film the following year. However, Montagu's account omitted key details, including the true identity of Glendor Michael, to protect still-sensitive intelligence methods. The most comprehensive account came in 2010 when historian and author Ben McIntyre published Operation Mincemeat, how a dead man and bizarre plan fooled the Nazis and assured an allied victory. McIntyre had access to newly declassified files and MI5 records. His book revealed the full story of Glendor Michael, the complete cast of characters, and the extraordinary lengths the team went to into crafting William Martin's fake identity. a Netflix film adaptation followed in 2022, and most recently, a Broadway musical has been created and has won a few Tonys. I had no idea Operation Mincemeat was a Broadway musical until I started doing research for this episode. Zoe: This book revealed the full story of Glendor Michael, the complete cast of characters, and the extraordinary lengths the team went to into crafting William Martin's fake identity. A Netflix film adaptation followed in 2022, and most recently, a Broadway musical has been created and has won a few Tony's. I had no idea Operation Mincemeat was a Broadway I knew it wasn't Broadway musical. I just never listened to it before. It's just it's I knew it existed It's just never like piqued my interest or anything to actually listen to it or look into it or anything But I knew it existed. I knew it won Tony's is it is it on or off Broadway? Jason: I had no idea. Or least it was. Historians broadly agree that Operation Mincemeat was one of the most successful strategic deceptions of World War II and that it genuinely shortened the Sicilian campaign and saved significant numbers of Allied lives, not to mention German lives that were saved. Estimating exactly how many lives is difficult, but the consensus is that the early and decisive capture of Sicily, made possible by German forces being elsewhere, prevented what could have been a catastrophic frontal assault on a heavily Defended Isles. So, what do take away from a story involving a fake dead officer, a sardine fisherman, and a briefcase full of lies? Look into everything like don't just take things that face value ⁓ details matter enormously Yes ⁓ Zoe: So, what do we take away from a story involving a fake dead officer, a sardine fisherman, and a briefcase full of lies? Look into everything. Like, don't just take things at face value. Details matter enormously. Yeah. I mean, they really fleshed out ⁓ this guy, like they really fleshed him out. so it was the lie was really hard to detect. Like, ⁓ they really ⁓ spent time this. You can tell. Jason: theater ticket stubs, overdraft notices, love letters, a picture of his fiancee, like none of it was real but they thought of all these itty bitty little details that just lent to the realism of Zoe: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It reminds me of like building a character. It's like you just like what's their shoe size? What? Like kind of thing. It's really fleshed out. Jason: reminds me of building a character. Like in D &D. Like in D &D, we were playing D &D today earlier. ⁓ I feel like I say this a lot, but I'm kind going off of what Zoe says, like don't believe everything you see instantly. Like I say that a lot, but that's like a really good lesson, especially in history with like deceptions like this, you know? What Zoe says is don't believe everything you see. I say that a lot, but that's a really good lesson. Especially in history with like, deceptions like this. Yeah. The best deceptions exploit what the enemy already believes, kind of, is where you're kind of going down. Germany already thought that Sicily was going to be their, you know, the big push, which it ended up being, but they were so... into that idea that they believed that it could go somewhere else because they were so worried about what was going to happen. which it ended up being but they were so into that idea that they believed that it could go somewhere else because they were so worried about what was going to happen. I feel like one of the huge mistakes was moving all their people to the other place. Like not like half and half yeah exactly. Zoe: Germany already thought that Sicily was going to be their, you know, the big push, which it ended up being, but they were so into that idea that they believed that it could go somewhere else because they were so worried about what was going to happen. I feel like one of their huge mistakes was moving all of their people to... All of their troops, not like half and half. Jason: Yeah, yeah Yeah, you know what that that happened twice to the Germans. Yeah, when did it first happen Zoe? No, actually this would be the first one the second one happened ⁓ D-Day Because the Germans were it where do the Germans think D-Day was gonna happen. Do you remember? Zoe: You know what? That happened twice to the Germans. Yeah! When did it first happen? Was it Stalingrad? No, actually this would be the first one. The second one happened. D-Day. ⁓ Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, yeah. Where did the Germans think D-Day was going to happen? You remember? They thought it was going to happen more near the English Channel, right? was going to... It was all on the English Channel. But they thought was happen in Calais. ⁓ yeah, and it happened. Jason: Actually this would be the first one the second one D-Day Oh Yeah, yeah, yeah, because the Germans were where did the Germans think D-Day was gonna happen? You remember? thought it was gonna happen more near like the English Channel, right? It was all an English Channel, but they thought it would be happening near Palais Well, it was all ending his channel, but they thought it was gonna be happening near Calais. Zoe: on the beaches of Normandy. And so even though there were still heavy casualties at D-Day, it could have been so much worse if the Germans had amassed their war machine in Normandy and not at Calais. The Germans, have like, because they thought, didn't they do like, they always just send all of their troops. Like it's not like. Jason: It happened south, more south. Wasn't as easy as a trip across the English Channel for the Allies, but it deceived the Germans. And so the, even though there were still heavy casualties at D-Day, it could have been so much worse if the Germans had amassed their ⁓ war machine in Normandy and not at Calais. Zoe: It's like that Ron Swanson quote. never half-ass one thing, always full-ass the whole, like two things you know what talking about. It's so good. But like they always just full force. Jason: It's like that Ron Swanson quote. never half-ass one thing, always full-ass the whole thing. That's right. It's one of my favorite quotes. It's so good. Yeah, no, absolutely. But like they always just full force. Yep. That's a big mistake. Yeah. It's like going all in. It's like that Ron Swanson quote. never They never half-ass one thing they always full-ass in the whole like two things you know what talking about? So be! It's one of my favorite quotes. It's so good. Yeah, no, absolutely. But like they always just full force. Yeah, that's a big mistake, you know? Like it's like going all in, you know? They don't divide up their They don't. It wasn't 100%, you know? Like they would still leave troops places. left them Yeah. It wasn't 100%. You know, like they would still leave troops places. They left them Sicily. left them in Sicily. Still, there were still some there. You can't just completely abandon a spot. Cause then it's just, you know, people can just walk in and say, okay, this one's mine. ⁓ But yeah. the last one was I wanted to point out was the unseen contributions shape history. So. ⁓ Zoe: They don't divide up their power Sicily still there were still some there you can't just completely abandon the spot because then it's just The last one was that I wanted to point out was the unseen contributions shape history ⁓ So Glendor Michael never knew he was going to be helping in the war, right? ⁓ He died in poverty and anonymity. And let alone the winning of a war like it started The winning of the Western Front like I started the winning Not a good way to it. his role was hidden for 55 years He still contributed Jason: Glendor Michael never knew he was going to be helping in a war, right? He died in poverty and anonymity. There's more stuff to uncover ⁓ Mm-hmm and even though his role was hidden for 55 years ⁓ He still contributed, you know history is full of people whose contributions were real but invisible that's we're sitting with for a little bit It's not just everything that you read like there's ⁓ is there's accounts ⁓ people that didn't get interviewed by a reporter or you know, they did something in a war ⁓ and it wasn't written down. know, their contributions count just as much as the ones that you know about. Yeah. contributions count just as much as the ones that you know about. History is never complete, you know? Yes. Excellent point. Like, there's always something that you can find that... There's another side. Yeah. Yes. Excellent point. There's always something that you provide. on their side. Yep. Zoe: not just everything that you read. There's more stuff to uncover. There is. There's accounts of people that didn't get interviewed by a reporter. They did something in a war and it wasn't written down. Their contributions count just as much as the ones that you know about. History is never complete. Yes. Excellent point. There's always something that you can find. Always another side. All Jason: You guys know the rules. Let me finish the question. Lock in. Best of three. Question Operation Mincemeat was partially inspired by a list of wild spy schemes called the Trout Believed to have been written by which future famous author? Zoe. What? No, Oh, and by the way guys, it was Zoe. When you thought it was you, when I went back and I was editing, it was 100 % Zoe. Alright. Ian Fleming. Correct. Operation mincemeat was partially inspired by a list of wild spy schemes called the trout memo. Believed to have been written by which future famous author. What? it's me! Zoe: Locked in Yay Jason: That's so stupid. I should have got that. Locked in. Give it to me! His real name- oh, sorry. My paper. Glyndor Michael and then, uh... Question 2. What was the name of the real man whose body was used in Operation Mint Meat and what was the fake name he was given? Zoe: Locked in I mean, Gallagher. You take 10 minutes. I did that on purpose. sorry. Paper. Gwendolyn Michael. And then, uh... Jason: Captain Acting Major William Martin of Royal Marines. should get extra points. And plus you stole my last one so... Oh God. That's exactly what I have written down here. Good job dude. Zoe: Captain Acting Major William Martin of Royal Marines. exactly what I have written down here. Yeah, you gave me that answer! You literally gave me that answer. I should get extra points. For what? I stole my last one. Oh my god, calm down. This last one has to be given the exact answer. Oh god. Okay? No paraphrasing, the exact quote. Question three. Jason: Alright, so now this last one has to be given the exact answer. no paraphrasing an exact quote. three. When Winston Churchill received confirmation that the Germans had been fooled by Operation Mincemeat, what three word message did he send back? Definitely Zoe. Sorry dude. Correct. Correct. When Winston Churchill received confirmation that the Germans had been fooled by Operation Mint Smeet, ⁓ Zoe: When Winston Churchill received confirmation that the Germans had been fooled by Operation Mincemeat, what three-word message did he send back? Locked in. Definitely Zoe. Mincemeat swallowed whole. Correct. Correct. ⁓ Dad. I literally wrote that down. The second you saw it, I'm like, ⁓ he's going to say that. I should probably know that for EHAB too. Jason: I literally wrote that down. The second you saw it, I'm like, ⁓ he's gonna say that. I should probably know that for you, have to. April 30th, 1943. What do you think happened? Well, this operation mints me. Correct. All right. That one doesn't count. April 30th, 1789. George Washington is inaugurated as the first president of the United States in New York city, marking the beginning of the federal government under the U S constitution. Zoe: April 30th, 1943, what do you think happened? Well, this. Operation Mint. Jason: 30th 1943 what do think happened? Well, this. Operation Mincemeat, correct. All right, that one doesn't count. April 30th, 1789, George Washington is inaugurated as the first president of the United States in New York City, marking the beginning of the federal government under the US Constitution. Awesome. Isn't it crazy? April 30th, he was inaugurated, and we do it now. It's January 20th. Yeah. What a difference. Yeah, that's a long time. It's like our spring breaks. Elected in November. Awesome. That crazy April 30th, he was inaugurated and we do it now. It's January 20th. What a difference. Yeah. Elected in November what five months later, more than five months later, he's finally inaugurated ⁓ months with a lame duck president. You know, when there's when it's switching over, it's crazy. Zoe: Yeah. Yeah, that's a long time. Jason: And what, five months later, more than five months later, he's finally inaugurated? Five months is a long time. Five months with a lame duck president, you know, they're switching over. It's crazy. Like, I just get in office already? Come on, give it to me. April 30th, 1803, the United States completes the Louisiana Purchase with France, doubling the size of the young nation and reshaping the map of North America. Hmm. Zoe: Five months later, more than five months later, he's finally inaugurated. Five months is a long time. Five months with a lame duck president, you know, they're switching over. Yeah. Like, can I just get in office already? Come on, give it to me. April 30th, 1803, the United States completes the Louisiana Purchase with France, doubling the size of the young nation and reshaping the map of North America. Jason: April 30, 1803, the United States completes the Louisiana Purchase with France, doubling the size of the young nation and reshaping the map of North America. Wow, that's like... The Louisiana Purchase for America. That was... What president was that? 1803. I I haven't taken a push yet. Doesn't matter, you should know this. Zoe: The Louisiana Purchase ginormous for America. What president was that? 1803? I haven't taken a push yet. Jason: Yeah, it was huge. Yeah, that was what president was that 1803 Doesn't matter you should know this Zoe: ⁓ Thomas Jefferson It doesn't matter you should know this what makes sense cuz he was close with the French But they also heavily discounted it cuz it was like it was like trash lit into them Jason: Oh, uh, uh, oh shoot. lot of stuff happened for America. Huge stuff. Huge. Yep He was close with the French They needed it because they were fighting wars against the English I believe so yeah, I think so Yeah Zoe: Yeah. ⁓ was 30 years war, right? And I don't have to know any of it right now. finally on this date, 1945, Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun die in Berlin as the Third Reich collapses. The event becomes one of the defining turning points of the end of World War II. Jason: And then finally, on this date, 1945, Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun die in Berlin as the Third Reich collapses. The event becomes one of the defining turning points of the end of World War II. A lot of stuff happened today. Yeah, no kidding. That's crazy. Specifically with World War II. Yeah. Wow, a lot of stuff happened today! That's crazy! And America. Zoe: A of stuff happened today. Yeah, no kidding. That's crazy. Specifically with World War II. Woo! America. Alright, homeless man from Wales, ⁓ fake named Pam, ⁓ sardine and a briefcase full of lies. ⁓ And ⁓ history ⁓ Never a good plan. ⁓ Never ⁓ the history forgot. Jason: a homeless man from Wales, ⁓ fiance named Pam, sardine fisherman and a briefcase full of lies. And somehow, ⁓ turned. ⁓ underestimate a good plan ⁓ never forget the people history forgot. homeless man from Wales, fiance named Pam, sardine fisherman and a briefcase full of lies. Somehow history turned. Never underestimate a good plan and never forget the people history forgot. That's it for this episode. Thanks for traveling through time with us on Ebs of History. If you like today's story, share it with a teacher, a friend, or your family on Instagram at Ebs of History. If you have any show ideas, corrections, or questions, can contact us at questions at Ebs of History. that's it for this episode thanks for traveling your time with us on ebbs of history if you like today's story share with a teacher, a friend, or your family on instagram at ebbsofhistory if you have any show ideas, corrections, or questions you can contact us at questions at ebbsofhistory Zoe: That's it for this episode. for traveling through time with us on Edds of History. If you like today's story, share it with a teacher, a friend, or your family on Instagram, at Edds of History. If you have any show ideas, corrections, or questions, can contact us at questions at Edds of History. Jason: off, this has been your co-host, Gavin. me, Reminding you history not just about dates and battles. It's about people, curiosity, and the weird, wonderful choices that shaped our world. Zoe: Signing off, this has been your co-host, Gavin. Zoe. And me, Reminding you that history is not just about dates and battles. It's about people, curiosity, and the weird, wonderful choices that shaped our world. Jason: Signing off. This has been your co-host, Gavin. Zoe. And me, Jason, reminding you that history is not just about dates and battles. It's about people, curiosity, and the weird, wonderful choices that shaped our world. Until next time. Keep laughing the ebbs of history At the very end, because you ended your thing, so I said keep wondering. Zoe: Until next time, wondering, keep laughing, and keep learning through the ebbs of history. You had such a long pause, I thought it was my time. Jason: and keep learning through the ebbs of history.