Latest / Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash / #160 Hugo Toovey on What Matters After Facing Death Twice

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#160 Hugo Toovey on What Matters After Facing Death Twice · Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Ash. Today's guest is Hugo tuv Now. He is a
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: bloke who's been through so much, more than most more
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: than most of us could imagine, and somehow he still
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: keeps pushing on.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: He's an army man, a two time cancer survivor, and
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: the founder of twenty five Stay Alive, which is a
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: movement getting young people to actually check themselves before it's
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: too late.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: It's hard to wrap your head around what life would
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: be like for Hugo. He's a dad to a sixteen
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: month old, but he's also juggling surgeries, hospital visits, and
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: all the emotional weight that comes with battling cancer for
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: a second time.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: But in this chat, Hugo gives us a glimpse into
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: that world. He tells us what it's really like trying
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: to start a family when nothing goes to plan, the
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: quiet battles you don't see, and how becoming a dad
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: to little Teddy has changed everything for you.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Now a little word of warning, this is a pretty
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: emotional chat. As you can imagine. There are a few
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: tears from my cellph and also from Hugo, so we
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: get some tissues ready. But it's a beautiful chat. So
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: I hope you enjoy.
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: Let's get into it.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to three voting dads. I'm Mattie, Jay, I'm Ash,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: and I'm here and this is a podcast all about parenting.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I almost forgot then we've had a week off. I
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: was like, where do we go from here? This is
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: the podcast all about parenting.
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: It is the good, is the bad, and the relatable.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: And you go, Ash and I rarely, if ever give advice.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: We're not allowed. We're not about legal reasons we can't,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: but loophole. There is no pressure on yourself to give
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: advice or you can not.
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we're pretty chill, no pressure, We're pretty chill.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: And we do like to start with our guests by
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: asking them one really simple question. Do you remember the
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: most trouble you got in as a kid?
• 2:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think I do. And I've got a twin brother,
• 2:04
  Speaker 5: Max and identical non identical, and I reckon it was
• 2:10
  Speaker 5: probably when we were fighting my brothers. Do how old
• 2:14
  Speaker 5: we were. I think we would have probably been about
• 2:17
  Speaker 5: around like tennish, like proper trouble. And this was a
• 2:21
  Speaker 5: proper fight that got out of hand, okay, and where
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: you know, pushing up against the walls and then pushed him.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Up against the who was stronger.
• 2:28
  Speaker 5: He probably was, which was a shade. So are you
• 2:31
  Speaker 5: taller now? I am got him? Yeah, so much taller.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: It's a lot to admit that.
• 2:38
  Speaker 5: No, for sure, I always hated it. And then all
• 2:40
  Speaker 5: of a sudden, like I'm talking year twelve, like shot up.
• 2:44
  Speaker 5: I was now like a head taller at him.
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: So yeah, I would have been an athlete too.
• 2:51
  Speaker 5: He played first, so that was my excuse. But this
• 2:55
  Speaker 5: got out of hand, this fight and pushed him out
• 2:57
  Speaker 5: against the window and it cracked and smashed, and you know,
• 3:00
  Speaker 5: we've had a couple of those fights. But I just
• 3:02
  Speaker 5: remember that, you know, the dad coming home furious, like
• 3:06
  Speaker 5: they're probably the biggest ones. There's twin brothers when you've
• 3:08
  Speaker 5: got a big punch on. I just remember those, multiple
• 3:11
  Speaker 5: of those memories that just stand out from where you've
• 3:13
  Speaker 5: really got.
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: In trouble, young testosterone.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Do you remember when the window cracked? Who was kind
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: of saying was at fault? Because it was like you
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: were antagonizing me?
• 3:22
  Speaker 5: And you know, yeah, I think I was very much
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: on the it was Max's fault, get the defense. I
• 3:28
  Speaker 5: think I was.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: He sounds like a nightmare by the way, but he.
• 3:31
  Speaker 5: Always took it too far. Funny. If he listens to this,
• 3:38
  Speaker 5: he would just be sad, that's bullshit, you guys. Too
• 3:41
  Speaker 5: far was probably the one that actually just took things
• 3:44
  Speaker 5: a little.
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: Who was the more authoritarian, your mum or your dad?
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: Mum? The dad was the one where it's like, you know,
• 3:51
  Speaker 5: he didn't have to do anything, just like the classic
• 3:53
  Speaker 5: you know, unbuckling the belts one of those, but he
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: never did anything, but it was just you.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: He just had to go to them.
• 4:03
  Speaker 5: You hear the buckle of the belt. I'm just sprinting
• 4:05
  Speaker 5: to It was always just a classic. Mum would be like,
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: wait till Dad gets hot, and you're like, oh ship,
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: I really don't. Oh yeah, So that was kind of
• 4:13
  Speaker 5: how it was. But we still like, I don't know,
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: we got smacked and got the bloody in the mouth
• 4:18
  Speaker 5: or whatever.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: In the mouth we're talking.
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: If we swore it was a hot mustard, it's just like,
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: what's it called? Yeah, So then Mum got done. That
• 4:32
  Speaker 5: was probably the worst. If we like we're like, notice
• 4:35
  Speaker 5: like if we were deliberately swearing and we've been told okay,
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: that's it, and I think it was actually the hot
• 4:41
  Speaker 5: mustard that would come out mustard mustard, and it's just
• 4:44
  Speaker 5: that the English mustard is. I swear maybe being the
• 4:48
  Speaker 5: army for for fifteen years, but I swear so much
• 4:50
  Speaker 5: and I'm like, clearly it didn't work.
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I threatened my kids with soldo toast.
• 4:57
  Speaker 5: That'll really your mouth.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: We were trying to figure out whether the fact that
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: you joined the army was off the back of you
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: being quite naughty, or if you had a family of
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: people who were in the army. Which one was it?
• 5:11
  Speaker 5: It was lack of direction, I think so the first one.
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: The first it's funny I had no family history of army,
• 5:18
  Speaker 5: but it was I did not want to do it, basically,
• 5:21
  Speaker 5: and I think my dad was worried I was going
• 5:24
  Speaker 5: to do the old gap year that turns into ten
• 5:26
  Speaker 5: years of gap years and just not really doing anything guilty.
• 5:32
  Speaker 5: So the idea of joining the officer passway and you
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: get paid to study in Dad, geez, that would be
• 5:38
  Speaker 5: pretty good, you know, shave his head and that's literally
• 5:41
  Speaker 5: day weren't shaped head and discipline like what you see
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: in the movies, marching all that sort of stuff. So
• 5:46
  Speaker 5: I think it was good for me because I probably
• 5:48
  Speaker 5: was a bit lack motivation, didn't have that real life
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: plan like my twin brother Max had. So I think
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: it was a great thing for me, and I'm glad
• 5:56
  Speaker 5: I did join up, to be honest, because did.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: You like it at the start? Were you thinking what
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: I did?
• 6:01
  Speaker 5: Actually now I thought I did. I liked the idea
• 6:04
  Speaker 5: of just getting out of home getting thrown at the
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: DP end. I don't know. I just I was at
• 6:09
  Speaker 5: that stage in my life where I liked that doing
• 6:11
  Speaker 5: something different. But none of my other friends were doing.
• 6:14
  Speaker 5: They were just doing the safe you know, live with
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: them and dad, go to UNI, change degrees, all that
• 6:18
  Speaker 5: sort of stuff. Was for me. It was moved to
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: Canberra to live Jordan Army And was it an apprenticeship
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: you took on or it was like it's four years
• 6:26
  Speaker 5: of officer training or and then in the first three
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: you get a Bachelor of Business or engineering or si
• 6:32
  Speaker 5: as I chose business. So you get page of Duddy,
• 6:34
  Speaker 5: which is pretty good. You know, you get pretty fit,
• 6:37
  Speaker 5: you make good mates, you do some cool stuff in
• 6:39
  Speaker 5: the army, and I thought if I last two years,
• 6:42
  Speaker 5: that'd be great. Fifteen years later, granted, as we'll talk
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: about the fact you know they've looked after me. It's
• 6:48
  Speaker 5: helped a bit just staying in longer. But at the start,
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: I thought this would be a bit of fun. Joined
• 6:53
  Speaker 5: up for a couple of years and see how I go.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: And then how old were you?
• 6:56
  Speaker 5: Eighteen?
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's young, Hay, Like I I look at eighteen
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: year olds now as a thirty four and a half
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: year old man, and I'm.
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: Like, you're a child.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a little bit.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: So then when you're in primary school and stuff, and
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: you saw an eighteen year old fucking look at the
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: size of this guy, a big man.
• 7:14
  Speaker 5: The year twelve when you were yeah, eight nine ten
• 7:17
  Speaker 5: like men.
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, now I'm looking down, I'm like, what are you six?
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: When I dropped Maley off at school, I'm wondering if
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: the kids look at me like I'm a geriatric.
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm like, here comes old Manny Jay.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: You're you're in your twenties. Probably the last thing you're
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: thinking about is cancer. But what led to the moment
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: where you were first diagnosed with testicular cancer?
• 7:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's interesting, he said, family history of being the army.
• 7:41
  Speaker 5: You've never had a family history of cancer either, So wow,
• 7:44
  Speaker 5: when when you're younger and you people listening to this
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: have probably had, you know, whether it's parents or family
• 7:49
  Speaker 5: members or grandparents who have had cancer. You can't have
• 7:52
  Speaker 5: a bit of an understanding of what it is. You know,
• 7:55
  Speaker 5: chemo max, your hair fall out, you know, you look unwell,
• 7:57
  Speaker 5: all that sort of stuff. For me, I had none
• 7:59
  Speaker 5: of that, So I didn't have any idea of what
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: cancer was other than what you'd see on the movies.
• 8:04
  Speaker 5: And for me, I thought, I assumed that you had
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: to be really unwell because you had cancer. That makes sense, right,
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: And for me, I was final six months of four
• 8:14
  Speaker 5: years of military training, and I was probably the fittest
• 8:17
  Speaker 5: I'd been in my whole life, even fitter than I've
• 8:20
  Speaker 5: ever been. Like that was kind of the pinnacle of
• 8:23
  Speaker 5: I was twenty one. You know, peak fitness, healthy, you're
• 8:26
  Speaker 5: in your prime. I was going on on weekends. You know,
• 8:28
  Speaker 5: you've got all your mates, you're within Canberra, You're like, jeez,
• 8:31
  Speaker 5: six months time where Bloody graduated? How was this like?
• 8:34
  Speaker 5: Young lieutenants? And that was I guess. It always made
• 8:37
  Speaker 5: it pretty hard. And that's when I just noticed that
• 8:40
  Speaker 5: little bloody, frozen piece size a lump on my right nap.
• 8:44
  Speaker 5: Knew it was there. It was like this hard lump
• 8:47
  Speaker 5: that you know after the shower you have a feel
• 8:49
  Speaker 5: around and you just notice it and you go, hang on,
• 8:51
  Speaker 5: is that that's not normal?
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Can I ask?
• 8:53
  Speaker 5: It's like separate to your testicle or part of the testicle.
• 8:57
  Speaker 5: So like if you feel your testicles, you know, we
• 9:01
  Speaker 5: can do a little familiar or I feel around. It's
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: one of my favorite things to do. So you shouldn't
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: be noticing any hard lumps. Basically, Yeah, that's you know,
• 9:12
  Speaker 5: if you do notice that and you're listening to this
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: well good sognograph your doctor. I knew it was there,
• 9:17
  Speaker 5: but because it didn't hurt, and because I was healthy
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: and feeling good, I didn't think much of it. And
• 9:23
  Speaker 5: I remember literally going on like doctor, google lump on
• 9:26
  Speaker 5: right testicle, and I'd see the lead. Yeah, I saw
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: things like cancer, but I've also see things like benine system.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Oh that's what it is.
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: It always comes up with cancer. Whatever you put into Google.
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: Doctor, I've got a saw ear.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: It's like you laugh about the fact. They're like, oh,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: this headache is going to be a true I got.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: So when you saw cancer, you well.
• 9:47
  Speaker 5: It's funny. Instead of going like geez, I better after
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: doctor that made I kind of thought like, exactly like this,
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: I wouldn't be that yeah, yeah, because I feel feel healthy,
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: especially at twenty one and.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: You're twenty one.
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: I thought cancers when you turn fifty, like when you're older.
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: But it wasn't. And this went on for months and
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: months and months, and every time I got out of
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: the shower, because that's when you know, the fellas that
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: are hanging uys a while and you have it have
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: a real good feel, that's when they recommend it. And
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: I was just noticed every time, and I just still
• 10:12
  Speaker 5: put it off. And then it wasn't until I spoke
• 10:14
  Speaker 5: to my old man just one random morning and I
• 10:18
  Speaker 5: hadn't told anyone of that stage. And as I said, Dad,
• 10:20
  Speaker 5: like it was kind of awkward. Think about when you
• 10:22
  Speaker 5: last spoke to your dad about your testicles. You probably
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: you probably haven't, right, that's something you do even though
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: you both got them. All blokes have them, but you
• 10:29
  Speaker 5: don't just think about saying, like, Dad, can you have
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: a look at my testicle? Like it's a bit weird.
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: On the phone, I was a bit awkward about it,
• 10:36
  Speaker 5: and he said, first thing he said was how long
• 10:38
  Speaker 5: has it been there? And I'm like, I don't know,
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: like at least six months, probably more. And he said,
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: if you go on to the doctor. I said no,
• 10:45
  Speaker 5: and then he's just like, why not. Don't be a bloody,
• 10:47
  Speaker 5: bloody idiot. Your god, And it was almost that was
• 10:49
  Speaker 5: the first time I'm like, hey, why do I go.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: After a doctor?
• 10:53
  Speaker 5: And it was like that's the push I needed here
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: in your old man say, man, don't be a dickhead,
• 10:57
  Speaker 5: go to a doctor. And You're like, okay, that makes sense.
• 11:00
  Speaker 5: It's wandered off to the doctor and basically had an
• 11:03
  Speaker 5: ultrasound later that afternoon. Yeah, found out it was it
• 11:06
  Speaker 5: was testicular cancer.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: How long between you going to the doctor and having
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: that ultrasound and then then giving you a result.
• 11:13
  Speaker 5: Later that day?
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: Wow?
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: To be honest, when they were doing the ultrasound, I
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: can never tell you the person doing it because they're
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: not the doctor. Yeah, but they do so much of it.
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: Even when she was doing it and I could see
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: on this screen and she's going over the lamp and
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: it's this black, big lump thing on the screen. I
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: could see her reader and I knew that I'm lying
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: there twenty on you old bloat, Like, is that so
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: is that cool? What does it all right? And she's like, oh,
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: the doctor talked to you about it. I could just see.
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: So even then I thought all shit, hang on, But
• 11:41
  Speaker 5: then they got the results and things like cancer that
• 11:43
  Speaker 5: obviously moved pretty quickly, and then they how.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Do they deliver the news? Is it just ripping off
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: a band aid and pretty direct?
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah, pretty much. They I went to the They got
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: me a meeting with the specialist and then he basically
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: just came out and said, mate, you've you've got test
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: particular cancer, but we don't know how aggressive it is
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: or you know, if it spread, son, you have to
• 12:05
  Speaker 5: have a ct scam, which I then had to follow
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: up that literally that day as well. Got the result
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: for that the next day, and that was when I
• 12:11
  Speaker 5: found out the cancer had spread, which that was, I guess,
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: the frustrating part of it, because you think the ignorance
• 12:18
  Speaker 5: of a young twenty one year old bloke me just
• 12:21
  Speaker 5: putting that off meant the cancer had time to spread,
• 12:23
  Speaker 5: and I knew that the next couple of years would
• 12:25
  Speaker 5: be a lot more significant as far as surgeries and
• 12:28
  Speaker 5: chemo and treatment, Whereas if I had just gone in
• 12:31
  Speaker 5: straight away and thought, oh, this isn't right, this shouldn't
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: be here. They would have removed the testicle contained it
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: and said happy days.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: And I would have lived a But I also want
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: to say, because that is a valid point, but there's
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: a lot of guys out there who wouldn't have gone
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: to the doctor until it was way too late as well.
• 12:48
  Speaker 5: True. Yeah, well answer, I'm strong who became famous for
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: not so good reasons before all that he did have
• 12:56
  Speaker 5: testicular cancer. He spreads because it spreads upwards. He spread
• 12:59
  Speaker 5: to his Wow. He in his book talks about he
• 13:02
  Speaker 5: would literally spread all through his lungs. He was coughing blood.
• 13:05
  Speaker 5: His ball got so big he couldn't even sit on
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: his bike seats, and he just dozed up on painkillers
• 13:10
  Speaker 5: and it literally spread to his brain and he didn't
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: it took that long as a professional athlete because he
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: didn't want to impact his riding before he got got
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: finally got checked and they said, mate, like this is
• 13:20
  Speaker 5: so fast spread, like you're not going to make this.
• 13:22
  Speaker 5: And he ended up getting through it. But like, that's
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: just I think it's that classic. I think blokes in
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: general a lot, especially the older guys. But I find
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: blokes in general they don't. That's the fear of the unknown.
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: I just don't want to know. So it's kind of
• 13:35
  Speaker 5: like I'm going to brush it under the carpet and
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: just hope it just disappears because I'm just a bit
• 13:39
  Speaker 5: I just don't want anything bad to have.
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that happened with my dad last year and ended
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: up having a triple bypass.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Remember he just refused to admit that something was wrong,
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: and it could have been so minor, like a loss
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: of breath, like for you, a small a lump on
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: your testicle or a lump on your breast or something.
• 13:55
  Speaker 5: And that's I think one positive from the experience and
• 13:58
  Speaker 5: the work I do now, as we'll talk about what
• 14:01
  Speaker 5: happened next, But is now, I'm just so passionate and
• 14:05
  Speaker 5: pretty strong with my mates and people I talked to
• 14:08
  Speaker 5: to go get checked. Don't put things off, like it's
• 14:10
  Speaker 5: pretty simple messaging. But I get quite vocal about it now,
• 14:13
  Speaker 5: whether it's you know, my father in law recently with
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: one of those bow screening kits that he wasn't taking,
• 14:17
  Speaker 5: or if it's a made who keeps telling me about
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: these symptoms and I go you on to the doctor,
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: or not yet, like mate, go to the bloody doctor.
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: It's made me just really passionate about that and I think,
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: you know, I've had some really feel good stories since,
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: which is you know, saved lives. That's the way out. Like,
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: if it wasn't for going through this, I wouldn't have
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: saved those about lives.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: So it's such a great impact on other people.
• 14:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and that gives me to this day and I've
• 14:39
  Speaker 5: got another big up coming up.
• 14:41
  Speaker 6: You know.
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: It always gives me a bit of that, yeah, bit
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: of that boost motivation.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: So you're diagnosed with testicular cancer. What's the next step?
• 14:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah, basically he said, mate, we've got to remove the
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: testicle You've I then had the CT scan found out
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: it spread. Is like then we've got to talk about
• 14:57
  Speaker 5: chemond surgeries and stuff like that. That's the next twelve
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: months of your life's going to be just click off,
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: click pause, forget about your your army career. For now
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: you're going through you're going through going through cancer treatment.
• 15:09
  Speaker 5: But for before all that, he you know, I was
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: in camera, twenty one year old bloke, a lot to
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: take in, right, didn't have my parents with me, just
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: sitting in this quite a big office and he just
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: throwing this all at you and you're like, what the
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: hell is going on? Just like digest so he said,
• 15:24
  Speaker 5: but before we go into that, he's like, we got
• 15:28
  Speaker 5: to have this surgery to remove the testicle the next
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: few days. Booked you in, but an important question do
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: you want a fake testicle? And I vividly remember that. Sorry,
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: I always remember this, and that's like, as a young
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: twenty one year old bloke, you've just had told cancer
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: spread through your body, and he goes, mate, do you
• 15:45
  Speaker 5: want a fake testicle? So here, I wasn't thinking about
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: the chemo, the you know, am I going to live
• 15:49
  Speaker 5: any of this? It's the hey on, do I get
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: a fake testicle on it? It's like all that was
• 15:54
  Speaker 5: going through my head. And then I kind of thought,
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: I don't know, like is that the go like what's
• 15:59
  Speaker 5: the normal?
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: Here it choice and what it looks.
• 16:02
  Speaker 5: And he said, look, you're young twenty one. I was
• 16:05
  Speaker 5: single at the time, so he's a lot of young
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: guys find that. It just makes him feel a bit
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: more normal. You're in the chaining rooms, You're not this
• 16:11
  Speaker 5: weird loan range that that's hanging down.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: I'm big on cemetery.
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think exactly, So you know, I think it
• 16:16
  Speaker 5: was up to me.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: I think I'd have to go one.
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: Ash thought, why do I think it's wooden?
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: Well, I think ask the same question pre kids and
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: pre wife, and you're younger, would you get one? Is
• 16:29
  Speaker 5: an interesting one because.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: I don't think I know you wouldn't and there's no
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: because I think I would whip it out a lot.
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: I think if if I don't.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Know, yeah, you're you're a bit of al you want
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: to show, but you like you want an eyepatch if
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: you like.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, when I got to a sex toy, I went
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: to a gay bar and had my nuts out the
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: whole nights.
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: You have your Uni ball hanging free, and you think
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: that'll and I think that'd be hilarious. Yeah, so this
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: is why you need to then hear this part of
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: the story then, because a fake one could be just
• 17:06
  Speaker 5: as funny. And said, I said, yep, let's do it.
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: Let's go go with the fake one, and he said great,
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: And I thought that was it. You know, I thought
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: they just do everything then and he goes no worries.
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: He goes to his desk and brings out this like
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: briefcase and he flips it open, and he goes, right now,
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: which one do you want? And then yeah, about five machine.
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: It's like shopping for a catalog of fake nuts. And
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: there's like five different molds of fake testicles. And I'm
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: sitting here and he's oppositely the stare at me with
• 17:35
  Speaker 5: a smile, and I'm going through. I've got like two
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: trelog This one had a real nice bouncy texture. This
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: is a silicon basis feels good. That's a popular choice
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: but important from the States. And I'm like, really is that? Yeah,
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: it's really good. You can tell you like proud of
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: you've got fine, fine taste. Will take one of those.
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: So I locked in that one and I thought, okay,
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: that's a bit weird. You have one that lights up?
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: Do you have one with like edges on it?
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: There?
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, he's got this scooter at the moment the wheels.
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: I want one of those ones, which I wonder now
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: if they do, that'd be interesting. And then he said
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: what size do you want? Huge? And I said the
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: biggest one he's got. It was quite small, to be honest,
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: but no he I said, like you said, Maddi, you
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: like match it up. Bit of symmetries and yeah, okay,
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: that makes sense. We'll get the medium sized happy days.
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: You know, I didn't think much of that, And then
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: I thought it was quite a weird process, right, And
• 18:30
  Speaker 5: then at the time I was a bit vulnerable, and
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: I just thought that's interesting. And I woke up and
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: I've got this weird fake nut down there, and he
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: came along and he goes and just walks here. I've
• 18:38
  Speaker 5: got my pants down, my dad's here, and he just
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: goes and gives it a big squeeze, and naturally I
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: couldn't really feel or it didn't hurt. But every bloke
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: goes like, but it didn't hurt. He's like, oh shit,
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: did that hurt. I'm like, no, but it should. He's good, Okay,
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: that's fine. You know.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: One second here.
• 18:59
  Speaker 5: It's all good, It all went well. But now it's funny.
• 19:02
  Speaker 5: Over the years, it's this part of me and I've
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: now got this bit of an infamous drunken party.
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: What is it go on?
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: And it's it's called real or fake. I'm sure I'm
• 19:12
  Speaker 5: sure you shoul put one and two together. And now
• 19:14
  Speaker 5: they explain the rules. They love real fakes, so you
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: can't notice the difference from just visual so often, you know,
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: it promotes good conversations. Now I get mates building up
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: a tally in how many times they guess the real
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: one on the fake one. So what you do. You're
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: going to turn around and you bring one out, real
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: or fake and they go, no, that's definitely the real one.
• 19:32
  Speaker 5: And in the way now I determine if it's not.
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: You get your iPhone light and you put your light
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: up against it. This is like beacon of light. It's
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: like this, I'll show you after this. It's like, so
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: you turn the lights off and it's just the big
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: lights now, and it's just it's what started out is
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: something that that's quite embarrassed about. I'm now proud of it.
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: And so many mates just love the fake nut.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say that you get
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: people to feel them.
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: No, it used to be a flip. So it used
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: to be like I'd got this and I'd be like, yeah,
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: you're not going to fit your full one, and I'd
• 20:04
  Speaker 5: fick the fake one, like, oh bugger, I said it
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: was a real one. So it's like people feel it,
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: they're interested in it. It's like this silicon based a
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: weird little thing, like it's it's an interesting one because,
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: like I said, at the start, I was so embarrassed
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: to even tell my dad that I had this nut
• 20:18
  Speaker 5: on my testicle, whereas now like I just love talking
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: about testicles. I talk, I get it out, you know.
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: I've had mates who like have said, mate, I've got
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: this weird little vein thing down there, and they've gone
• 20:30
  Speaker 5: to doctors. I've had a friend of a friend who
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: was diagnosed with testicular cancer, but you got it early.
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: I've had multiple people around me that reach out online
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: saying I've heard you're real, off fake, you care that
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: you're not just walking on the street. And I was like, hey,
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: you go. Yeah. But it's a weird feeling now that
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: I've just I'm proud of this part of me, you know,
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: And it's what was initially a really awkward thing that
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: resulted from very unfortunate circumstances has evolved and there's something
• 20:59
  Speaker 5: I'm proud of. It's creating conversations, it's saving lives, and
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: it's important that you have a bit of fun with
• 21:05
  Speaker 5: it and you have some humor with it, because otherwise
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: blokes don't talk about this stuff by opening up, by
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: playing real or fake, by getting the lantern out. By
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: having these chats, you get these guys now who feel
• 21:17
  Speaker 5: comfortable talking about their body and changes and is this normal?
• 21:20
  Speaker 5: Should this be hanging this way?
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: My nuts?
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: This big is out. You know, it's important stuff and
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: I think November do a.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Great job stigma.
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: Removes it. And that's what I try and do with
• 21:30
  Speaker 5: you know, whether it's a presentation of footy club or
• 21:32
  Speaker 5: chatting to someone who I can tell is you know,
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: be uncomfortable they want to tell me something. If you
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: add a bit of humor in, and you guys obviously
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: do it so well on this podcast. You can have
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: the serious chats, but then you throw some humoring, it
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: makes people just feel a bit more comfortable.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: There's no better icebreaker than the lantern produces, Like oh god,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to understand the emotional whiplash that you've gone through,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: because you know, we could easily sit here and talk
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: about your testicular cancer for the whole episode, but I'm
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: going to ruin the story here. You get through it,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: you're in remission, you hit with cancer a second time,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: and it's such a short period when you're almost celebrating
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: one second the fact that you've beaten testicular cancer to
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: then dealing with a second diagnosis. What is that like
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: from an emotional perspective.
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that and then that was really tough. The five
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: years went by and I had the chemo, that surgeries,
• 22:33
  Speaker 5: I went on surveillance, the three months checkups turned into
• 22:36
  Speaker 5: six months to twelve months, and you're kind of ticking
• 22:38
  Speaker 5: off the little milestones. And my life resumed and I
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: got physically fit and I was healthy again, you know,
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: click resume of my army career. We got posted of
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: Brisbane and then I guess the icing on the cake
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: and for those who have experienced cancer is the five
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: year mark. So I remember getting the five year all
• 22:54
  Speaker 5: clear scan, which is a significant milestone. You literally, yeah,
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: you see your pologist who's been such a big part
• 23:01
  Speaker 5: of your life for like five years, you see him
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: for the last time and you kind of say like
• 23:06
  Speaker 5: thanks dark, like I'll probably never see you again, and
• 23:08
  Speaker 5: it's quite a significant time.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: Do you remember the first emotion that popped up when
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: you were told you accounts freeter five years?
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah. I think it was just that real happy moment.
• 23:18
  Speaker 5: It was like a sense of freedom that I had
• 23:20
  Speaker 5: an experienced in my adult life, and I remember I
• 23:23
  Speaker 5: was with amb and my wife in Brisbane and we
• 23:25
  Speaker 5: cracked open our favorite champagne and we just had this
• 23:28
  Speaker 5: celebration of just like we can now put that behind us,
• 23:31
  Speaker 5: and that like the anxiety and the fear of the
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: what if. You know, what if it relapses, what if
• 23:35
  Speaker 5: it comes back? You know, once you hit that mark,
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: it's almost like you're the chance of relapse. It won't happen,
• 23:41
  Speaker 5: You're in complete remission. I just remember that, just that
• 23:43
  Speaker 5: real happy feeling like you can get on with Yeah,
• 23:46
  Speaker 5: you can kind of now don't live with the anxiety
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: of the unknowns. And it was it was quite significant
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: at that stage in our life. We were living in
• 23:55
  Speaker 5: a different city. You know, I got lined up for
• 23:58
  Speaker 5: deployment overseas.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: And you were married at that point.
• 24:01
  Speaker 5: I know, we went married. We'd been together for a
• 24:04
  Speaker 5: number of years, but she had kind of experienced a
• 24:06
  Speaker 5: big part of that, and she was just I was
• 24:09
  Speaker 5: really happy that I was, you know, no longer causing
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: her you know, I guess, yeah, the burden of when
• 24:15
  Speaker 5: she is to go through it too. And it was
• 24:17
  Speaker 5: just a nice moment in my life and I just felt, yeah,
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: for the first time of adult life, I felt that
• 24:21
  Speaker 5: real sense of relief, the weight off your shoulders, happiness, freedom.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: But when did that change?
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: Well, and that's yeah, it was Unfortunately that was short lived,
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: and a couple of months went by, and like I said,
• 24:33
  Speaker 5: I got lined up for deployment overseas, which I'd always
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: wanted to do. You know, we were kind of living
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: a great life at that stage, and then all of
• 24:41
  Speaker 5: a sudden my bows started playing up. And I've always
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: had a bit of a dodgy gut, you know, like
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: a bit of ibs as a kid growing up. You know,
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: that wasn't uncommon. But for this was worse than my normal.
• 24:52
  Speaker 5: And I always say, my normal is different to yours,
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: ash difference to yours, Maddie, And it's important to recognize
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: what our normal is. And this went on for a
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: couple of weeks. And it was the urgent seel like oh,
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: go to the bathroom like that just kind of came on.
• 25:02
  Speaker 5: That's that's not normal. It was the you know, the diarrhea,
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: the abdominal sort of pain. I just thought, is it
• 25:08
  Speaker 5: something I'm eating? This isn't right. This went on for
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: a couple of weeks, two months after I'd just been
• 25:13
  Speaker 5: given the five year all clip, full set scan, no
• 25:17
  Speaker 5: signs of cancer, your happy days. And then I remember
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: saying to Am, but like, no, I'm going to head
• 25:22
  Speaker 5: off to the doctor, which is something I didn't do
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: as a twenty five year old bloke. And went off
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: to the doctor and with my history my symptoms, he
• 25:30
  Speaker 5: recommended I had a colonoscopy.
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: If either of you lads had a no, we should
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: definitely do that.
• 25:34
  Speaker 5: Colonoscopies are like they typically looked at when people are
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: a bit older, but like the younger people now if
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: they've got some issues with their gut. A lot of
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: people have Klonoskoy because it's the best way to bolt
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: a camera up your barm. You have a fifteen minute
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: pound app and you can have a have a look
• 25:46
  Speaker 5: at what's going on inside. And I had had a
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: feel as a kid, so I knew what it was
• 25:51
  Speaker 5: about a bit of a bower cleanse. It just completely
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: pleased you out. I remember literally waking up feeling a
• 25:56
  Speaker 5: bit out of it. You're having a little turkey sanger
• 25:58
  Speaker 5: tasting great, you know, you know, still dozed up from
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: the anesthetic, and Terry, my gasterontrologist, came over and he
• 26:05
  Speaker 5: had this kind of bit of a sort of somber look,
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: and he's like, mate, he showed me a print out
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: of the report and he's like, you've got a couple
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: of nasty polyps, which for your age is not necessarily common.
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: But I burnt them off, sent them off for a bipsia.
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: But let's see you in two weeks. We'll discuss next
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: steps on why your bows are playing it. And then
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: literally the next day, I was your MOMY uniform typing
• 26:24
  Speaker 5: away at my desk and I got a call from
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: Terry's receptionist and she she said, she go, Terry needs
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: to see the results are back. And I'm like, yeah,
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: I'm beauty, see him in two weeks and she's like, no, no,
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: he needs to see this afternoon. And you know, when
• 26:36
  Speaker 5: you're just in life, were you get those moments where
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: you have that sick feeling in your stomach, whether it's
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: I don't know your kids are well, or you're waiting
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: for something like you just feel sick. I couldn't have
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: a sleep of water, and I just knew something wasn't right.
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: When you've got a specialist wanting to see you, and
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: I you know, Amber, my wife's a nurse and she
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: just finished a shift at the hospital. Went to the
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: appointment together, and I was kind of cracking a few jokes,
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: like pretending I was fine, but I was so scared
• 27:00
  Speaker 5: because I just knew it wasn't going to be good news.
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: And then he called us into his office and that's
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: when he just he just said. He turned his computer
• 27:07
  Speaker 5: screen around and said, Amber, Hugh, I'm sorry to say,
• 27:10
  Speaker 5: you know, you've got Bower cancer. And it was completely different.
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: A lot of people ask if it was part of
• 27:16
  Speaker 5: testicular if it relapsed. It was an entirely new cancer.
• 27:19
  Speaker 5: So my testicular cancer was well and truly in the
• 27:22
  Speaker 5: past two months, after being on top of the world,
• 27:25
  Speaker 5: experiencing that happiness and freedom, we just found ourselves back
• 27:29
  Speaker 5: in the doctor's rooms being told that I had Bower cancer.
• 27:32
  Speaker 5: And I remember sort of taking that in and I
• 27:34
  Speaker 5: was it was almost a bit of shock, and Amber
• 27:37
  Speaker 5: had her knee on my hand on my knee, and
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: she was very silent, and I just thought, here would
• 27:41
  Speaker 5: go again. And he said to me that it's an
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: aggressive type of Bower cancer. We got to act quick.
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: I've already booked you in for surgery. But he said
• 27:49
  Speaker 5: the only seal of aligning is the testicular cancer saved
• 27:53
  Speaker 5: your life. And it's the moment I'll always remember, is
• 27:57
  Speaker 5: that the fact that if it wasn't for sicular cancer,
• 28:01
  Speaker 5: learning the importance of early detection, that little frozen pe
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: sized lump, the cancer spreading through my body. There is
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: no way fast forward five years as a young twenty
• 28:09
  Speaker 5: six year old bloke. There is no way I would
• 28:11
  Speaker 5: have gone off to a doctor with my bows playing up.
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: But I was still living a pretty normalish life and
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: there is no way I would have had that colonosk
• 28:18
  Speaker 5: could be being in those ruins being told I had
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: bow cancer. But I got it early enough that it
• 28:23
  Speaker 5: gave me a fighting chance, and that's something that I
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: guess I'm grateful for sitting here. Bow cancer now kills
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: more young Australians age twenty five to forty four than
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: any other cancer. It's now impacting young people. They're putting
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: lots of links to the diet last style, but a
• 28:41
  Speaker 5: lot of people get diagnosed when they're stage four, and
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: when bow cancer spreads beyond the bow and you're stage four,
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: survived five year survival rates around that ten percent.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: What stage were you at when so I was early stage,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: it had.
• 28:55
  Speaker 5: Just kind of started going beyond the bow. But because
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: I had this aggressive type, it can sometimes be hard
• 28:59
  Speaker 5: to treat, and that was the issue that I've had,
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: and to this day I still have. I'm cancer free,
• 29:05
  Speaker 5: but as a result of all the major surgeries, and
• 29:09
  Speaker 5: I've had about ten or so open abdominal surgeries, and
• 29:11
  Speaker 5: I don't have a large bow, I don't have a
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: colon or a rectum. I missing part of my small bower.
• 29:17
  Speaker 5: I had a bag for about six months. I've now
• 29:19
  Speaker 5: got an internal jpouch where they literally stretched down your
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: small bower, create an internal pouch, stitch you on t
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: the anus area and for a while act to learn
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: how to get the toilet again in continents wearing adult diapers,
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: and then you kind of you learn to adjust and adapt.
• 29:32
  Speaker 5: And then I went from going twenty times a day
• 29:34
  Speaker 5: to ten times. I got under ten. Was doing pretty well.
• 29:38
  Speaker 5: But unfortunately this sort of last six to twelve months,
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: I've really been struggling. The pouch is not functioning. It's
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: it's and they have to go back now to a bag,
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: and it's a tough one because I'm cancer free, but
• 29:49
  Speaker 5: to get to that point they've had to take pretty
• 29:51
  Speaker 5: drastic measures, and it's like the collateral damage from something
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: like cancer isn't often spoken about. So I often tell
• 29:58
  Speaker 5: people like, you know, I'm cancer free, and they go,
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: that's amazing, which it is, yeah, But then the quality
• 30:03
  Speaker 5: of life I have and I was just in hospital
• 30:06
  Speaker 5: literally two days ago and had a surgery last week.
• 30:08
  Speaker 5: And the burden now that has on Amber and our son,
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: and it's something that we constantly have been experiencing really
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: since twenty thirteen to now. So it's been twelve years,
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: which is a long time where I've had patches of
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: good health, but for the most part, it's been significant challenges.
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: You get through it, but it's tiring.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: When you are battling cancer. Maybe if you think about
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: when you got your diagnosis early on, what's it like
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: from an emotional perspective where it's almost like you just
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: finished this marathon. You get to the finish line, you
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: can celebrate, and then the moment you kind of have
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: a champagne in hand, you get to tap on the
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: shoulder and it's like You've got to run this marathon again,
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Like when you're battling it second time. Is it pretty
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: consistent and that your mentality is just like, we're going
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: to beat this cancer. I can do this, And how
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: often does it then switch to being this is too hard,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: I can't do this.
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a really good point. And I think those
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: earlier years with testicular cancer, I was very much fat
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: on bulletproof. I'm a young lad. I'll be completely fine.
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: I think it's not till you get a bit older
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: and understand a bit more about life, in particular since
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: being a dad, and you realize there's more important things
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: than just you. That's really changed my outlook on my
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: current health challenges. And it's been mentally been quite difficult,
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: where you know, you're now not just burdening your wife,
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: You've now got a son that you want to be
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: there for. And then there's so many times that I
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: can't be there for him because I'm unwell, I'm in hospital,
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: or I'm facetiming him, or I'm really unwell, you know.
• 31:46
  Speaker 5: And I've had lots of mental health challenges and you
• 31:48
  Speaker 5: try and pick yourself up, but it's really hard sometimes
• 31:51
  Speaker 5: to do that.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: I want to just step back a little bit about
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: your wife and your son going through I mean a
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: second stint of cancer. After what you've already been through,
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: where's your mind at was starting a family.
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: It's a good point. So when I went before I
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: had chemo, even back when I was twenty one, they
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: are single kids were so far from my you know,
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: my thought process of having a family. But my coologist
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: said I needed to get frozen sperm because they sometimes
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: chemo and these these treatments can make you infertile. So
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: I remember, like literally back then, before I even had
• 32:28
  Speaker 5: a partner, I'm going in, you know, getting the frozen sperm,
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: putting that away. And I've had that ever since. With
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: the I guess the thought of I might need it
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: one day, and then I guess years later, you know,
• 32:41
  Speaker 5: I meet Amber. We've been together for now over ten years,
• 32:44
  Speaker 5: and when we had Teddy, our son who's now sixteen
• 32:48
  Speaker 5: months old. You know, we're at that stage in our
• 32:51
  Speaker 5: life of wanting to have a family, and we thought,
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: like a lot of naive you know, dads to be
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: think that you just happen like that. And I think,
• 33:01
  Speaker 5: I thought, you know, a lot of my mates around
• 33:03
  Speaker 5: me who were having kids, you're here. I made as
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: soon as she is buddy ovulating, it just happened. My
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: bloody and hell made that the first time we didn't
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: use a condom, we felt she felt pregnant. So I
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: thought that's how it was going to happen. Unfortunately, as
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: you know, you guys know, it doesn't often happen like that,
• 33:17
  Speaker 5: So for us, it took us a while. And so
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: the six months will go by and you'd get each
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: damas you know, the pregnancy test, and he's all excited
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: and I'm can't saving it, you know, put them on
• 33:26
  Speaker 5: the bean and Sam's that's just try and not think
• 33:28
  Speaker 5: about it. Easier said than done. And then we were
• 33:30
  Speaker 5: told by many specialists and doctors just they said, look,
• 33:33
  Speaker 5: there's a chance that you might not be able to
• 33:35
  Speaker 5: conceive naturally, but you've got your frozen sperm. And almost
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: a year went by and we're going to go down
• 33:40
  Speaker 5: that passway to use the frozen sperm. And it was
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: one random warning where we weren't even trying to conceive
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: on the whole ovulation day. Let's go, you know, we
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: kind of put that behind us and we're heading back
• 33:56
  Speaker 5: to Adelaide and Ambel was heading back for her best
• 33:58
  Speaker 5: friend's hens and she thought, you know what, it's going
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: to be a big weekend. I'm just going to like, okay, yep,
• 34:03
  Speaker 5: do another pregnancy test. You get just so still, and
• 34:06
  Speaker 5: I'm upstairs getting ready or whatever, and it's like five
• 34:08
  Speaker 5: in the morning before the ent to the airport. I
• 34:09
  Speaker 5: came downstairs and there was the pregnancy test in the
• 34:11
  Speaker 5: kitchen and I went to literally go put in the
• 34:13
  Speaker 5: bin and it had the line there, and I was like, man,
• 34:16
  Speaker 5: what's this line mean? Happen to be there? And then
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: she kind of ran out and she's like, I think
• 34:22
  Speaker 5: I'm pregnant, and we're just like holy shit, Like we
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: just weren't expecting it. Were mentally prepared for the IVF
• 34:28
  Speaker 5: pathway and going down that side of things, and here
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: it was were like is this right? And we're both
• 34:33
  Speaker 5: so like so upside of this big smile. Got to
• 34:35
  Speaker 5: the airport, she got the digital one that says pregnant,
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: and like, we couldn't contain ourselves. And fortunately, you know,
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: things went well, and you know, the weeks and months
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: progressed and then you know, we we've now got a
• 34:48
  Speaker 5: beautiful sun, which is which is amazing. And I was
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: actually just saying pre chat for pre podcast that there's
• 34:56
  Speaker 5: a chance with this big surgery off got coming up
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: to get the per and in stone and have to
• 35:00
  Speaker 5: go quite deep to my prostate area, and there's a
• 35:03
  Speaker 5: decent chance that they can get a few of the
• 35:05
  Speaker 5: prostrate nerves and it will make me infertile, which essentially
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: means you have dry orgasms, retrogate ejaculations, nothing comes out, essentially,
• 35:14
  Speaker 5: and you can't there's nothing they can do. It's just
• 35:17
  Speaker 5: a risk. And then so he my surgeon only recently
• 35:21
  Speaker 5: said so if you're thinking of wanting another one, he said, like,
• 35:25
  Speaker 5: I recommend that you, you know, you try, because you
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: know things could happen. And then we also know we've
• 35:32
  Speaker 5: got the frozen spermers back up. And unfortunately I haven't
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: actually said and said, we haven't told anyone this, but
• 35:40
  Speaker 5: I know you guys, you've been very open about it.
• 35:43
  Speaker 5: We am. We did full pregnant recently and it was
• 35:46
  Speaker 5: just like, how good is this? This is meant to
• 35:48
  Speaker 5: be the timeline. She was so happy and she's been
• 35:52
  Speaker 5: through a lot, but then she had a miscarriage last week,
• 35:55
  Speaker 5: which is not great, which when you're going through this
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: with the surgery coming up, Yeah, quite quiet. Yet she
• 36:03
  Speaker 5: was really emotional and I really felt for her because
• 36:06
  Speaker 5: he was like finding a bit of good news for her.
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: And now I feel like we've got the pressure now
• 36:12
  Speaker 5: going to the surgery that you you know, she might
• 36:16
  Speaker 5: not conceive before then, and I've seen how much has
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: impacted her and she's really going through so much. And
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: then you throw that on there, and you know, we've
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: tried to be upbeat with it, but you know, once
• 36:27
  Speaker 5: you go through those shitty days and you know, being
• 36:30
  Speaker 5: beating yourself up about it, ultimately our son, who's healthy
• 36:34
  Speaker 5: and he's amazing, he just gives us that that boost
• 36:38
  Speaker 5: and it's really helped Amber. And I really feel for
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: those people, and it's I know you've both spoken about it,
• 36:44
  Speaker 5: but I feel for those people who go through that
• 36:46
  Speaker 5: where they don't have a kid as like a you know,
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: the fallback of just that like comfort, that safety blanket.
• 36:53
  Speaker 5: We had that, but it just added this extra layer.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Of like it's like a sledgeheet.
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: It does. Yeah. So that, yeah, all the time, it
• 37:00
  Speaker 5: was perfect and you're finally getting like some good news
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: because we've just had so much bad news over the years,
• 37:05
  Speaker 5: and it's almost like we deserve that. And then you know,
• 37:08
  Speaker 5: unfortunately Ship then had this miscarriage and it was just like.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Again, it's just like bloody hell, Like really, it's not
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: it's not fair like what you guys have had to
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: go through as a family, Like it's unbelievable and it's
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: more than like what I think I'll ever have to
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: deal with my lifetime.
• 37:27
  Speaker 5: I'm just.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: It's it pisses me off that you have to you
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: have to go through all that.
• 37:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and it I do don't get me right, do
• 37:37
  Speaker 5: you have days where you really do get down the
• 37:40
  Speaker 5: dumps and you do get like I'm a pretty positive guy,
• 37:43
  Speaker 5: but you do get those times of even last week,
• 37:45
  Speaker 5: I'm back in hospital for a week and you know,
• 37:47
  Speaker 5: even now I've got this like drain in because I've
• 37:49
  Speaker 5: had this infection and that drained will be in like
• 37:51
  Speaker 5: four weeks, and I kind of had that anxiety again
• 37:54
  Speaker 5: of like shit, I'm back here next month for this
• 37:56
  Speaker 5: major major surgery.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Can I ask that? And with Teddy, obviously you want
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: to try and like you said, be upbeat and be like, no,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: I'm going to beat this. This is not going to
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: get me. But they're like, at what time do you
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: start planning about not being around for Teddy?
• 38:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's a tough one. Things definitely change when
• 38:24
  Speaker 5: you're a parent. Yeah, actually thinking about this last night,
• 38:32
  Speaker 5: I give him a bath. There's a first time I've
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: actually really thought about this, and I haven't with Amber yet,
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: but giving him my bath wasn't I and he was
• 38:44
  Speaker 5: just really happy and smiling at me, and he doesn't
• 38:47
  Speaker 5: know what's going on. And then going into this major surgery,
• 38:51
  Speaker 5: I think, ship, how you know things don't work out
• 38:55
  Speaker 5: or my health doesn't go to plan the next six months,
• 38:58
  Speaker 5: plus how's AMBA going to raise him? And how I'm
• 39:01
  Speaker 5: not going to be.
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: There for him?
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: And it was the first time I had these thoughts
• 39:04
  Speaker 5: last night. It's a really tough one. But the thing
• 39:07
  Speaker 5: is he doesn't know what's going on, and I think
• 39:09
  Speaker 5: in a way that makes it easier because he doesn't
• 39:12
  Speaker 5: know that Dad's sick or Dad's not feeling well. He
• 39:14
  Speaker 5: just wants Dad to give him a bath and read
• 39:16
  Speaker 5: him a book. And I think that joy is a
• 39:19
  Speaker 5: good distraction. But it's something that until very recently, I
• 39:23
  Speaker 5: haven't really thought about. And it's not till you have
• 39:25
  Speaker 5: a kid. Your whole everything changes perspective. There's more to
• 39:31
  Speaker 5: life than you, and for me, it just I guess
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: in a way, it gives me the ultimate motivation to
• 39:36
  Speaker 5: get through it, to be there for him to recover
• 39:39
  Speaker 5: as best as I can. You know, even the decision
• 39:42
  Speaker 5: of having this big series was a major decision, But
• 39:45
  Speaker 5: I thought, you know what, I'm bloody good at changing
• 39:46
  Speaker 5: his nappies. I've seen a change another one. You know.
• 39:50
  Speaker 5: One thing that doesn't where you're worrying me is pooh.
• 39:52
  Speaker 5: So you know, I thought, you know what, it is
• 39:54
  Speaker 5: just a bit of a life adjustment. It's another major surgery. Yes,
• 39:57
  Speaker 5: there are other unknowns. I've got such a small bow
• 40:00
  Speaker 5: now that there's only so much bow you can live with.
• 40:02
  Speaker 5: So there's always those risks. If I keep having bow
• 40:04
  Speaker 5: obstructions or keep going back here and they have to
• 40:06
  Speaker 5: take more about there will come a time where it's
• 40:08
  Speaker 5: like jezuz, you can only live with so much bower.
• 40:10
  Speaker 5: So they're things that I just have to constantly think about.
• 40:15
  Speaker 5: And being the father's been the greatest thing I've ever experienced.
• 40:18
  Speaker 5: And he does so much for me at such a
• 40:20
  Speaker 5: young age, and he's so small, but he gives me
• 40:23
  Speaker 5: a boost that I can never get from anything else.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: There's something kids can give you that you can't get
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: from anything else exactly. And it's crazy to think that
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: at some point over the whether it's the little while
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: that he's been alive, that you've had to have those
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: thoughts of this kid could potentially grow up without me.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: And I think about that with my son, and I'm like,
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: I couldn't imagine Oscar having to go through this life
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: without me. So it's incredible that you can put, you know,
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: bring yourself here and sit with us and spread such
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: a positive message about early detection and everything like that.
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: So I just wanted to commend you.
• 41:01
  Speaker 5: No, look, I told you I was a crier. No,
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: I knew it would get me too, and look, that's okay.
• 41:08
  Speaker 5: You know I used to apologize like the natural thing
• 41:11
  Speaker 5: when I used to cry, when during talks when I'm
• 41:14
  Speaker 5: often talk about Teddy or what amb has done for me,
• 41:16
  Speaker 5: that'd be the real triggers. I used to get quite emotional,
• 41:19
  Speaker 5: and you know, the default was sorry. But then I
• 41:22
  Speaker 5: now kind of just embrace that I never apologized for
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: crime because it's obviously it means so much to me.
• 41:28
  Speaker 5: And I think it's important that guys realize it's okay
• 41:31
  Speaker 5: to have a cry and be vulnerable and you know,
• 41:33
  Speaker 5: give your dad a hug, give you made a hug.
• 41:35
  Speaker 5: And that's the sort of the role model I want
• 41:36
  Speaker 5: to be for Teddy. And I think that's the other
• 41:38
  Speaker 5: part of it, is the fact that you know, whether
• 41:41
  Speaker 5: it's you know, twelve months, five years, ten years, fifty years,
• 41:45
  Speaker 5: however long I've got left on this this in this world,
• 41:49
  Speaker 5: I want him to grow up, you know, knowing these things.
• 41:52
  Speaker 5: And I really want to instill that in him, even
• 41:54
  Speaker 5: though he's so young. These are the messages in the
• 41:57
  Speaker 5: world that I want him to graw up in. And
• 41:59
  Speaker 5: so it kind of gives me that real drive to
• 42:01
  Speaker 5: do more of that. Yeah, and yeah, he's the greatest gift.
• 42:06
  Speaker 5: And I think without him, you know, I'd been a
• 42:09
  Speaker 5: lot worse place mentally, even when I'm in hospital going
• 42:13
  Speaker 5: through difficult time and you're facetiming him and I know
• 42:16
  Speaker 5: that he's there with my wife Amber, but also you know,
• 42:20
  Speaker 5: he's almost like her little guardian angel. And she often said,
• 42:24
  Speaker 5: like pre Teddy, those times I'd be stuck in hospital
• 42:27
  Speaker 5: or really ut well, she was often by herself. And
• 42:30
  Speaker 5: it's really difficult because the carers or the loved ones
• 42:34
  Speaker 5: that go through this, you know, they still go to
• 42:37
  Speaker 5: hospital she looks after me, you know, she's there and
• 42:41
  Speaker 5: trying to boost my spirits. But then when they leave,
• 42:44
  Speaker 5: you know, they're still living their life. You know, they
• 42:46
  Speaker 5: can't just that they're not living in that little bubble
• 42:48
  Speaker 5: like I am. And I often say, it can be
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: a lot harder for those cares and those support people
• 42:53
  Speaker 5: because she's it's emotional for her, and she would stay often,
• 42:55
  Speaker 5: and she would leave hospital see me in such a
• 42:57
  Speaker 5: bad way, and she would burst in the tears. She
• 42:59
  Speaker 5: then has to go home, has to clean the house
• 43:01
  Speaker 5: and you know, now cooked dinner for our son, and
• 43:04
  Speaker 5: then she's then got work, and you know, she has
• 43:06
  Speaker 5: to do all of that whilst then caring for me
• 43:08
  Speaker 5: and not having the support from me when I'm not there.
• 43:10
  Speaker 5: So she probably probably doesn't get the recognition or the
• 43:16
  Speaker 5: you know, like the holy shit, you do so much
• 43:18
  Speaker 5: like she deserves. And there are a few people that
• 43:20
  Speaker 5: probably realize how much she actually does. You know, a
• 43:23
  Speaker 5: lot of her friends or you know, even family probably
• 43:26
  Speaker 5: don't really understand what it's like for her to have
• 43:30
  Speaker 5: to be in the position she's in, looking after me,
• 43:34
  Speaker 5: being there for me recently having a miscarriage, herself going
• 43:38
  Speaker 5: through some really difficult emotional times herself being an amazing
• 43:41
  Speaker 5: mum to Teddy, and then trying to then live her
• 43:44
  Speaker 5: life like it's a lot, but it's something that I'm
• 43:47
  Speaker 5: so grateful for, And I just hope, you know, I
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: say it to her, but I just hope she knows
• 43:52
  Speaker 5: how much I'm proud of her.
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: What's it like when you do have those moments where
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: you're in and you're like, I just want to be home.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: I want to be with Annie, but I want to
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: be with Teddy and children are amazing. But at the
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: same time, you can have a situation where one second
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: it's pure bliss and you love it and there's no
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: better feeling than the love you get from being with
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: your child, But then at the same time, an hour later,
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: it can be the total end of the spectrum because
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: they're tired, they're grumpy, they're hungry. So then how do
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: you deal with the emotion of the moments where you're
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: trying to be a parent and you're getting frustrated. But
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: then you have the guilt of thinking, well, I shouldn't
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: be frustrated because I've got to make the most of
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: it of every single second that I spend with my son.
• 44:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's such a good point. I have those moments
• 44:42
  Speaker 5: and exactly what you've said where you're like, I shouldn't
• 44:45
  Speaker 5: be letting this get to me, but I am. And
• 44:47
  Speaker 5: I think any dad or parent has that, let alone
• 44:50
  Speaker 5: going through significant health challenges. But there are times where like,
• 44:54
  Speaker 5: especially if I don't have the energy or I'm not
• 44:56
  Speaker 5: feeling that well, and guys like Teddy just give me
• 44:59
  Speaker 5: a bit of space, and you just kind of then
• 45:01
  Speaker 5: you kind of get it, like sho, I shouldn't really
• 45:03
  Speaker 5: be feeling that, and you kind of beat yourself up.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: About the guilt from many frustrations as it eats you up.
• 45:09
  Speaker 5: You do you feel that sense of guilt like I
• 45:12
  Speaker 5: don't want to bloody play with you right now, mate,
• 45:14
  Speaker 5: Like I'm just not feeling great. Can you just bloody
• 45:16
  Speaker 5: piss off? And got understand that? And like that that
• 45:20
  Speaker 5: of course happens, like it's you know, I'd be lying
• 45:22
  Speaker 5: if I said, you know, you know every second I
• 45:25
  Speaker 5: have with him the best bah blah, because it's just
• 45:28
  Speaker 5: not true. And I think it's important to talk about
• 45:30
  Speaker 5: that that even going through all this, you know, there
• 45:33
  Speaker 5: are times where you kind of you just need space
• 45:35
  Speaker 5: from him. He's just going through that age now of
• 45:38
  Speaker 5: just being that terror, and he's quite an active, young,
• 45:41
  Speaker 5: young lad, and sometimes I just need a bit of
• 45:43
  Speaker 5: that space to say, mate, like I can't deal with
• 45:47
  Speaker 5: this right now. But that's okay too. I think it's
• 45:50
  Speaker 5: early days with the guilt. I probably didn't talk openly
• 45:53
  Speaker 5: enough about it, whereas now I'll talk openly to Amber
• 45:56
  Speaker 5: and say like Amber, I can't deal with this right now.
• 45:58
  Speaker 5: I'm just I'm not feeling well. Or if he comes
• 46:01
  Speaker 5: into the hospital like he's done recently. It's funny from
• 46:03
  Speaker 5: when he was younger, he would come in, he would
• 46:05
  Speaker 5: line the bed with me. He was the best. He
• 46:07
  Speaker 5: was a little chiller. Then Nur would come in. Isn't
• 46:10
  Speaker 5: he just a perfect little thing? He would just like
• 46:12
  Speaker 5: me crawling around and he could be in there all day.
• 46:15
  Speaker 5: Now he's like got a five minute window basically like
• 46:20
  Speaker 5: the other. The other that last week, he goes into
• 46:22
  Speaker 5: the toilet and the bathroom he's put the emergency buzzer
• 46:26
  Speaker 5: in the hospital and the nurse runs in like is
• 46:28
  Speaker 5: everything okay? I'm like yeah, but I look over and
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: ten that sort of stuff. Now where it's just like
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: he comes in and it's that first five minutes, ten minutes,
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: whatever it is, it's so good to see him, and
• 46:43
  Speaker 5: it's like it's the best thing ever. And like when
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: he opens the hospital and he sees his dad in there,
• 46:47
  Speaker 5: he sees big smile and he runs in. Then he
• 46:49
  Speaker 5: knows exactly who I am, and you know, he walks
• 46:52
  Speaker 5: down the hospital aisles and.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: It's really cute.
• 46:54
  Speaker 5: But then after that period it gets a little bit
• 46:56
  Speaker 5: like you've got to take him home. Yeah, they run,
• 47:01
  Speaker 5: but even that's something we've identified for this big up
• 47:03
  Speaker 5: coming up. You know, Amber's mum is going to be
• 47:07
  Speaker 5: staying with us for a bit and supporting Amber and
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: supporting Teddy, which is amazing for me. But it's the
• 47:11
  Speaker 5: sort of thing. You know, they'll come in, Teddy will
• 47:13
  Speaker 5: have his five minutes running around terror yep, give down
• 47:16
  Speaker 5: a little cuddle, and then Amber's mum will sort of
• 47:18
  Speaker 5: take him home. And then it just means that Amber
• 47:20
  Speaker 5: can then spend a couple of hours with me, you know,
• 47:23
  Speaker 5: without the worrying about Teddy, and she can actually just
• 47:26
  Speaker 5: be with me, which is so important for her. And
• 47:29
  Speaker 5: then knowing that Amber's mum's then looking after him. So
• 47:32
  Speaker 5: we've kind of have to think about those things. You know,
• 47:35
  Speaker 5: all our foundly living live in Adelaide, so we're just
• 47:37
  Speaker 5: it'll be like a tag team rotation of people just
• 47:39
  Speaker 5: coming out and helping, helping Amber out. And it's it's true,
• 47:42
  Speaker 5: they're not really there for me. It's they're there for
• 47:44
  Speaker 5: Amber and they're for Teddy, which then makes me feel better.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: It's unbelievable hearing what other people have to go through,
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: and your story is so important for me as a
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: bit of a wake up call to just how lucky
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: I have it. Like this morning, for example, Laura was
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: out the door really early, and I was trying to
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: get both kids ready for daycare and first day of school,
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: and it was tricky and I was getting frustrated. And
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: then at the same time, I'm sitting here as I
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: hear your story, going holy fuck. You know, it really
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: does put into perspective the minor inconveniences that I have
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: to deal with it in the morning with my kids,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: there's nothing compared to what you're currently going through.
• 48:20
  Speaker 5: It's a great point to reflect on if people are
• 48:25
  Speaker 5: listening to this, is that you're allowed to have those
• 48:27
  Speaker 5: times of I'm not enjoying this, This is a lot
• 48:31
  Speaker 5: like that's that's really healthy to have that, but it
• 48:33
  Speaker 5: is also a great opportunity to have those times where
• 48:36
  Speaker 5: you can reflect on it and if you can if
• 48:38
  Speaker 5: you can see that in the moment and go, you
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: know what, Yes, this is a lot, but geez, I'm
• 48:43
  Speaker 5: pretty lucky that both my kids are healthy or my
• 48:46
  Speaker 5: health is pretty good. And that perspective piece is really important.
• 48:50
  Speaker 5: It's not to say you can't have those bad days,
• 48:53
  Speaker 5: but sometimes just sitting there and I still even have
• 48:55
  Speaker 5: that you know, we just spoke about the what if
• 48:58
  Speaker 5: I wasn't here. You know, I've connected with these amazing
• 49:02
  Speaker 5: people who have had the really tragic stories and guys
• 49:06
  Speaker 5: I was kind of close with who have passed away
• 49:09
  Speaker 5: from things like cancer, and these single mums having it
• 49:11
  Speaker 5: to go through this, And that's what I often now
• 49:13
  Speaker 5: think about. When I can be present to Teddy and
• 49:18
  Speaker 5: I can bar him and play with him, and you know,
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: whether it's you're packing your kid's lunches for daycare or school,
• 49:25
  Speaker 5: I now start to appreciate those moments so much more.
• 49:28
  Speaker 5: And if I hadn't gone to what I've gone through,
• 49:31
  Speaker 5: I'm sure I wouldn't be appreciating those little things as
• 49:34
  Speaker 5: much as I do, like the bath last night, the
• 49:37
  Speaker 5: reading the book, those little special moments which a lot
• 49:40
  Speaker 5: of dads, a lot of parents probably take for granted,
• 49:44
  Speaker 5: feeling that one.
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: Look.
• 49:48
  Speaker 5: Like I said, I'm not always you know, super positive
• 49:51
  Speaker 5: and like happy all the time, but they are moments,
• 49:53
  Speaker 5: those little gifts of when I'm healthy enough that I
• 49:58
  Speaker 5: can be with Teddy and be in that And if
• 50:01
  Speaker 5: I think about it, that's the real gift, because like often,
• 50:04
  Speaker 5: if you don't think about it, then you won't do it.
• 50:06
  Speaker 5: But if it comes into my mind to go, Jesus
• 50:09
  Speaker 5: is so nice that I'm here with him now, not
• 50:10
  Speaker 5: in hospital, you know what, I'm going to give be
• 50:13
  Speaker 5: another ten minutes. I'm going to read next a little
• 50:15
  Speaker 5: book and just enjoy that little special moment. And it's
• 50:17
  Speaker 5: such a small moment that can be such a boost
• 50:20
  Speaker 5: my mental health. And I think you don't have to
• 50:21
  Speaker 5: go through these significant health challenges to still have that
• 50:26
  Speaker 5: thought process. You know, you can have those moments so
• 50:28
  Speaker 5: when you feel yourself getting a little bit agitated or frustrated,
• 50:31
  Speaker 5: to just have that step back and go, you know what,
• 50:33
  Speaker 5: this is just part of it. And how bloody lucky
• 50:35
  Speaker 5: I am to have this little terror there because I
• 50:38
  Speaker 5: love him so much. And if we start thinking that
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: way more, I think it will make those moments a
• 50:43
  Speaker 5: little bit easier and they're still going to be there.
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, But it's funny.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: I like, yeah, I have the same obviously the same thing,
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: like frustration for the little things, and you go, you're
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: at that moment, you're really just you can't see the
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: perspective in the moment because you're so caught up in
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: the frustration. But I know for me, like with days
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: that are really really bad, the thing that you know,
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: the kids that which bring on the frustration. Sometimes if
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: I will lay down and do books with them at
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: the end of the night and actually on a bad day,
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: it actually completely changes the whole day for me. And
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: I subconsciously do that because I'm like, I'm not feeling
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: my one hundred percent today mentally, I'm not all here.
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: I'm feeling bit down in the dumbs.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: But like we said, there's something that they can give
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: you that nothing else can give you, even though they'll
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: put you in that.
• 51:31
  Speaker 5: Really bad mood.
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: Anyway, it's such a weird relationship.
• 51:35
  Speaker 5: Do you notice yourself, you know, not feeling like that
• 51:38
  Speaker 5: every time. But do you notice that, like that, that
• 51:41
  Speaker 5: shift in how you're feeling, where you've kind of just
• 51:44
  Speaker 5: you know, sitting down with that book and you just
• 51:46
  Speaker 5: have this calmness or this It just almost everything else
• 51:49
  Speaker 5: that's happened before that moment, it's all gone.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: So I'll know I'm I'll know I've really had a
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: bad day mentally when I'll lay down on one of
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: their beds and they're both next to me, and I'll
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: have the book out, and then all of a sudden,
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: then I'll feel.
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: That perspective and go, Okay, well I have this and
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: some people don't.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, they've pissed me off all day, but there's no
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: one else who's going to sit with me right now
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: and I could I could tell them how exactly how
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: I'm feeling and they're just going to give me a
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: cuddle for it, and that changes everything.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: When you pick up a book, oscars like, oh, Dad's
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: at a shockup.
• 52:23
  Speaker 5: It's a really short book. I'm here for your but
• 52:29
  Speaker 5: like that, that is mindfulness, right, Like I think people
• 52:33
  Speaker 5: sometimes over complicate things and I don't do enough for
• 52:36
  Speaker 5: my mental health or you know, I don't bloody do
• 52:38
  Speaker 5: anything for my mindfulness and don't bloody meditate or do
• 52:42
  Speaker 5: hot yoga, and but even those moments of reflection in
• 52:46
  Speaker 5: yourself and being in that present moment and just not
• 52:49
  Speaker 5: thinking about the other things that's happened before then, or
• 52:52
  Speaker 5: thinking too far into what's going to happen tomorrow. You're
• 52:54
  Speaker 5: in that present moment like that is mindfulness, And that
• 52:57
  Speaker 5: is a really great thing that often people don't even
• 52:59
  Speaker 5: know doing it, and they go, that's a really great
• 53:03
  Speaker 5: tool to have. But I think people people do that
• 53:06
  Speaker 5: sort of stuff and they just think like, oh, it's just.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: What I do.
• 53:08
  Speaker 5: But that's a really important thing to do more of
• 53:12
  Speaker 5: than if you're in a situation where you find yourself
• 53:14
  Speaker 5: starting a spiral, if you're thinking of you know, well,
• 53:17
  Speaker 5: we've just gone through a miscarriage, I've got this upcoming
• 53:20
  Speaker 5: treatment which is really high risk, and you know, I
• 53:23
  Speaker 5: can't spend time with Teddy like I want to.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: If you are spiraling, how do you put yourself out
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: of the jumps?
• 53:29
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and this it takes It takes a bit of practice,
• 53:31
  Speaker 5: Like it it takes time to get to a stage
• 53:34
  Speaker 5: where you can actually firstly acknowledge that it's happening. That's
• 53:37
  Speaker 5: that's the key. If you could acknowledge it's happening, You've
• 53:40
  Speaker 5: then got that choice in that moment to do something.
• 53:43
  Speaker 5: It's when you you can't really notice it happening, and
• 53:45
  Speaker 5: it just gets worse, worse than its spirals. So for me,
• 53:48
  Speaker 5: I've got a lot better at noticing when I can
• 53:49
  Speaker 5: feel the mood. I can feel the anger, the y me,
• 53:54
  Speaker 5: this sucks, the frustration, and I can really feel that
• 53:56
  Speaker 5: coming the two things I do. Now I'm more open
• 53:58
  Speaker 5: with Amber about it. I used to just kind of
• 54:01
  Speaker 5: keep it to myself. Would go for our morning walk,
• 54:03
  Speaker 5: so we get the coffee, and like, I'd just be
• 54:04
  Speaker 5: in this just not a really pleasant mood, and I'd
• 54:07
  Speaker 5: often use my anger and what I was feeling. I'd
• 54:09
  Speaker 5: often take it out, you know, on her in ways
• 54:12
  Speaker 5: of where it was just me just being a bit,
• 54:14
  Speaker 5: you know, I guess angry and short and just frustrated.
• 54:19
  Speaker 5: You know. It was never anything you know, physical or
• 54:21
  Speaker 5: anything like that. It was more just the that the
• 54:23
  Speaker 5: how I was my mood. And now I'm a lot
• 54:25
  Speaker 5: better at saying Amber, I'm just feeling this. I don't
• 54:28
  Speaker 5: know why I'm just feeling this. This vent, this built
• 54:32
  Speaker 5: up frustration with everything. I'm just over it all. I
• 54:35
  Speaker 5: don't want to have this surgery. I'm just And then
• 54:37
  Speaker 5: it's just even just talking to her about it does
• 54:39
  Speaker 5: so much. It's a simple thing like that. So now
• 54:42
  Speaker 5: I just talk to her, communicate and our big one
• 54:44
  Speaker 5: for us is trying to start the day off with
• 54:47
  Speaker 5: something that's really simple that can just distract me a
• 54:51
  Speaker 5: little bit. And for us, it's going for that morning
• 54:53
  Speaker 5: walk and just keeping the routine. Because even when you're
• 54:56
  Speaker 5: going through I've had a really bad night. I've got
• 54:58
  Speaker 5: up ten times throughout the night, a lot of pain.
• 55:01
  Speaker 5: You know, an analysis, You're sure you're up for a walk,
• 55:03
  Speaker 5: And I said, yeah, absolutely. We take our dogs. We
• 55:06
  Speaker 5: take Teddy in his little trick or his little pram,
• 55:08
  Speaker 5: and we get little baby China, and the Bristol knows
• 55:11
  Speaker 5: your coffee order and she smiles at Teddy, and you
• 55:13
  Speaker 5: go to the park and you throw the ball around
• 55:15
  Speaker 5: for the dogs. In that fifteen minute little period, I've
• 55:19
  Speaker 5: just kind of escaped for a bit. It's just made
• 55:21
  Speaker 5: me feel a little bit better, a bit more calm,
• 55:23
  Speaker 5: And I get home and I'm just that little bit
• 55:25
  Speaker 5: better mood than I was before we went for that walk,
• 55:27
  Speaker 5: and it's such a simple thing, but for us that
• 55:29
  Speaker 5: really helps.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: It really is, And it's annoying because it's the things
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: you take for granted, you know, and it really it's
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: just like what keeps you going, going for a walk
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: and getting a coffee with my family?
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: What's so minor.
• 55:43
  Speaker 5: It has such a big impact, But it's not until
• 55:45
  Speaker 5: you go through. Like I said, I've recently been in
• 55:48
  Speaker 5: hospital about to go and again when you're there for
• 55:50
  Speaker 5: quite a long time. The things that I love most
• 55:53
  Speaker 5: in hospital is like the hot, hot shower for example,
• 55:55
  Speaker 5: Like majority of people that you guys have a shower
• 55:58
  Speaker 5: this morning and just stand there and just like enjoy
• 56:02
  Speaker 5: every second of that shower and just thought, this is
• 56:04
  Speaker 5: the best shower in the world. And you took an
• 56:06
  Speaker 5: extra five minutes in there because you're liking it so much,
• 56:08
  Speaker 5: and it's all you could think about was that shower.
• 56:10
  Speaker 5: Probably not like sometimes we do have those mornings and
• 56:13
  Speaker 5: it's a bit cold, and you do think that for
• 56:14
  Speaker 5: the most part, we just kind of you have the shower,
• 56:17
  Speaker 5: you think about something in the shower that's annoying you.
• 56:19
  Speaker 5: You get out, you have a shave or whatever, and
• 56:21
  Speaker 5: kids are doing something and you just let those little
• 56:23
  Speaker 5: moments just we have lots of little moments about the day.
• 56:25
  Speaker 5: They just escape us. But it's not until you're in
• 56:27
  Speaker 5: hospital and you're in a lot of discomfort and the
• 56:30
  Speaker 5: one thing I look forward to in that morning where
• 56:32
  Speaker 5: I'm just sitting in the chair having that shower and
• 56:35
  Speaker 5: this like the warmth goes on me and I just
• 56:38
  Speaker 5: escape for that little period and I feel I'm paying free,
• 56:42
  Speaker 5: I'm warm, and often ambers like go on hard you've
• 56:45
  Speaker 5: been in there for a while. It's like I just
• 56:53
  Speaker 5: want more of that. But like it's like they're things
• 56:56
  Speaker 5: that everyone does daily, they take for granted, but it's
• 56:58
  Speaker 5: not often until you go through something or something's taken
• 57:01
  Speaker 5: away from you where you start to appreciate things more.
• 57:04
  Speaker 5: So for me, it's like, how can I still have that,
• 57:06
  Speaker 5: you know, that same level of thinking, that mindset when
• 57:09
  Speaker 5: I'm not in hospital, And I can start doing that
• 57:11
  Speaker 5: when I'm home and just doing more of those little
• 57:13
  Speaker 5: things because you do enough of them and they start
• 57:15
  Speaker 5: to add up and you realize, like, holy shit, this morning,
• 57:18
  Speaker 5: I had that beautiful shower, I did get the coffee
• 57:20
  Speaker 5: at the brist I was able to go for that
• 57:22
  Speaker 5: walk and didn't have too much discomfort or pain. Like already,
• 57:25
  Speaker 5: there are things most people rush through.
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: Or they don't really enjoy that, but rushing right through
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: all that.
• 57:31
  Speaker 5: You rush remember any of it. So next time tomorrow morning,
• 57:34
  Speaker 5: I will when you're having a shower, feeling your balls,
• 57:37
  Speaker 5: feel any lumps or bums, maybe while you're in there,
• 57:40
  Speaker 5: just having that reual that five minutes to yourself and
• 57:43
  Speaker 5: going how nice is this hot shower and you see
• 57:45
  Speaker 5: the steam go up and it's really nice and just
• 57:48
  Speaker 5: enjoying that. Try that tomorrow and just see.
• 57:50
  Speaker 4: That until there's a knock at the door.
• 57:53
  Speaker 5: That's amazing. What are you doing?
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: I know that so many people listening as well, off
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: the back of this conversation really going to appreciate the
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: really find a simple things in life.
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: For sure which they would have overlooked.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: And one question that we end on, Hugo, is one
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: that I'm going to throw at you right now, when
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: Teddy is all grown up and he's no longer living
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: at home, what would be the one thing that you
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: want him to remember about the house that he grew
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: up in.
• 58:18
  Speaker 5: I love that question. I want him to always look
• 58:22
  Speaker 5: back at the house that he grew up in and
• 58:24
  Speaker 5: being where we are now with just that love in
• 58:28
  Speaker 5: the household and the happiness and the laughter and that
• 58:33
  Speaker 5: you know, playing with his dogs or you know that
• 58:36
  Speaker 5: the memories that we're making now that seem pretty trivial.
• 58:40
  Speaker 5: I want him to look back at those times is
• 58:41
  Speaker 5: you know, really enjoyable times for him. And I want
• 58:44
  Speaker 5: him to grow up in that. You know, even now
• 58:46
  Speaker 5: if I'm not there for periods of time, to just
• 58:49
  Speaker 5: wake up each day and have a smile on his
• 58:51
  Speaker 5: face and lots of laughter and giggles, and we try
• 58:54
  Speaker 5: to give that to him. The dogs give that to him.
• 58:56
  Speaker 5: But you know, there's nothing better when you can just
• 58:58
  Speaker 5: see him in such a happy and I want him
• 59:01
  Speaker 5: to always remember that. Yes, there are times in this
• 59:03
  Speaker 5: stage of his life that he probably can't remember, but
• 59:05
  Speaker 5: there might be times that he does remember. They're not
• 59:07
  Speaker 5: so good parts of Dad not being there or Dad's
• 59:10
  Speaker 5: in hospital, and you know, instead of looking at as
• 59:12
  Speaker 5: a negative, actually really focusing for him looking back on
• 59:15
  Speaker 5: a really memorable time for him. So, yeah, the happiness,
• 59:18
  Speaker 5: the laughter, That's what I want him to always look
• 59:21
  Speaker 5: back on.
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: Hugo.
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: I want to say thank you for coming on and
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: being brave and everything you do for mental health, being
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: an advocate, getting people to talk about it, getting people
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: to think about their health as.
• 59:33
  Speaker 4: More than just mah. You know.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: So I want to thank you for spending some time
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: with us and making that cry. I really appreciate that.
• 59:42
  Speaker 5: I love what you do. It's such an important podcast
• 59:45
  Speaker 5: because you know, you have that humor. You know, you
• 59:48
  Speaker 5: have a really great way of communicating the things that
• 59:50
  Speaker 5: often we don't talk about as parents. And for me
• 59:54
  Speaker 5: being a little part of this, you know, hopefully people
• 59:57
  Speaker 5: listening can take something away from it. So I appreciate
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 5: you guys giving me the opportunity, especially with a lot
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 5: going on at the moment. It's even this chat's given
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 5: me a bit of a boost to think, how good
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 5: is that. You know, I was in hospital last week,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 5: I'm sitting here chatting to you two guys, you know,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 5: opening up, being vulnerable, having a bit of a laugh.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 5: It means a lot to me too, So thanks lads,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 5: you go.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: I mean every word when I say you are an
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: incredible human And I can't tell you how much I
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: appreciate your time this morning. I love chatting with you.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: Your surgery coming up is when So.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 5: I'm not sure when this party will be released, but
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 5: nineteenth of August, in four weeks today from the recording,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 5: is that the big op. So I don't know when
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 5: this will come out. I might be in hospital, but yeah,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 5: I've got four weeks now to just try and get
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 5: myself in a pretty pretty good place.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: You'll wake up at Matt and I were there with
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: the mic.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: We're thinking of you and we'll definitely keep it a
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: listeners updated post surgery. Thanks again.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 6: Thanks what a man, Matthew, What a man, and what
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 6: a chat and.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: The great charity as well. Twenty five stay Alive dot
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: com is the website. Their mission is to make health
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: checks from twenty five a normal part of life through prevention,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: early detection, and action.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: If you want to get involved or donate, we'll leave
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: the link in our show notes of the episode.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: There's some great undies that you can buy on the website,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: and a few hoodies as well. You might see us
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: wearing the hoodies. They're not yet available, but as soon
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: as they are, we'll let you guys know.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: If you've enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review, subscribe,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: join us on social media.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: We're at Matt Two Doting Dads. There is a Facebook group,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: there is an Instagram account, and there is also TikTok.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: Well said, hey, there is there is the chance. Not
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: right now, not next week, but maybe the week after.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, Jess is.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: Looking at me and going, for God's sake, boys, let's
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 4: let's do it.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: Let's get it together doing long form video on YouTube.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, that's right.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: We're working on it. It's not able just yet, but
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: it will be.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: We're working titles to that. Just relentless, I know, we
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: are relentlessly working, just doing nothing. Can you please keep
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: the game Okay?
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 5: Bye bye.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: throughout Australia and the connections to land, see and community.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: We pay our respects to their elders past and present
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 4: and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torrestraight Island
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: of People's today