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Bonus: Liar - Can You Fix It? Do You Care? Can You Care? · The Junto Podcast

0:07
Hello, America. Welcome to the Juneto Podcast, where we promote the practical
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applications of critical thinking and bold creativity.
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I'm your host, Edgar Mills. Thanks for joining us.
0:23
Hey, man, bonus episode. Again, I'm given to do these once in a while based
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on events that happen in my life or things that I witness or something that,
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comes across the news feed,
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just things that prompt me to want to do an episode that needs to be put out
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before any of the others I have on deck.
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Well, today we're talking about, this is like ground-level stuff.
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You know, I talk about politics now and again, libertarian stuff,
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and I hate on communism all the time and, you know, these worldwide-type problems.
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But really, I'm trying to help individual people, individuals,
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to affect their immediate space and their immediate surroundings and the community.
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Small-scale stuff. I'm not trying to change the world in an epic fashion.
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I'm trying. God dang it. I am trying. God dang it.
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All right. What I'm trying to do is help people become better people.
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The best versions of themselves possible. Some guys do it through fitness.
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We work on that through shooting.
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Some people do it through education, like academics.
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High academics, but I do it through relaying personal experience.
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And yeah, I do research, folks. Don't think that for one second,
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I don't do the research on the things that I talk about. I do.
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It is Edgar's opinion and it's Edgar's analysis, but yeah, it's founded in facts
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and and verifiable evidence.
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All right, so that being said, the topic of the day is liars.
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Liars do not emerge from the womb to be liars.
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It's a learned habit. It's a learned skill, if you look at it as a skill.
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It's a learned behavior.
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As children, possibly as an adult, but nah, if you're a liar, you learned it.
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And the children watch one or both parents lie as sort of a routine,
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normal turn of conversation.
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And what they learned from that is that the truth costs more than a lie.
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Lies are easy. They keep the peace.
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They don't invite controversy on the surface.
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Children observe and study adults that it's their nature that's the way it's
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designed children are supposed to learn from adults,
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and a parent that lies to to dodge an argument or to keep a spouse quiet,
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or to make one of the kids stop asking for a thing,
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the child observes this method they take it in whether it's conscious or not they they they do,
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so they take this in the children and and some of the research on this stuff
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says that well parenting by lies right,
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it it develops the same pattern in adulthood,
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so adults who recall being lied to as children,
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well, they lie to their parents, young adults, and adults.
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So they're more apt to lie to their parents and their children as they get older.
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And it's documented that they have more trouble regulating their mood.
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Regulating their behavior, and they have relationship trouble,
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relationship problems.
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They are unable to build meaningful relationships.
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They don't listen to the lecture about telling the truth while being lied to daily.
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They copy the tool that they see every day. And so a child who catches a harsh
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reaction for delivering some bad news, I got in trouble at school today or whatever,
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And eventually they just learn to massage that news.
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They tone it down. They tell a little fib. Yeah.
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So that they don't get the immediate backlash, the immediate pain,
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even though, okay, yeah. So, yeah.
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Anyway, these negative childhood experiences, they track with these little everyday fibs.
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And then along with more serious lies as they get older.
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Well, a lie is a lie. That's it. Little lie, big lie. Doesn't matter.
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It's a lie. It's coercion. It's not the truth.
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And even in all the research, there's not a clean line that says,
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hey, one small lie is okay. Big lie is not. No.
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Small lie, big lie, same.
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And that holds true even after they account for like behavioral disorders and all those things.
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So the child, by seeing these lies play out in real time, they learn a very simple lesson.
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And that lesson is that the reality, aka the truth, is painful, immediately painful.
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And they learn that a lie or a revised version of that reality, it feels easier.
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It's easy. It's smoother.
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They pick up that pattern. They learn it.
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And not only is that wrong, not only is that the wrong thing for them to be
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learning, the absolute reverse is true.
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The truth may hurt for a brief time, but it heals back. It heals,
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and it heals back stronger.
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Where a lie, yeah, it feels easy in the moment. You might get what you want
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in that moment, But that lie now damages everything that it touches for the rest of your life.
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And then in that lying, that habit, it becomes its own defense mechanism.
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A lie has to use a lie to cover itself, to defend itself.
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So the liar tells themselves.
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That they're using a lie to protect something, because that's noble.
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I'm protecting you, or I'm protecting this or that from the truth.
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I'm protecting our marriage from the truth.
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They tell themselves that it keeps the peace.
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They tell themselves that the lie will avoid the fight, that the spouse just,
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they just can't handle it. They're too sensitive. They can't handle it.
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And the liar in their mind, having lied to themselves, will call this,
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maybe it's kindness to spare them the burden of the truth.
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So when you're backwards way of thinking, you think that you're sparing them,
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you're being kind by sparing them.
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And the liar uses this as a strategy. It's a strategy. So not only do you lie
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to everyone else, you lie to yourself to make it okay.
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And in this this habit the excuses they exist before the lie is ever uttered you already got a a,
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predetermined a little bank of of fallback excuses for whatever lie you tell
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you have a fallback excuse already,
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or you stutter around while you're making one up,
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that looks very very suspect when you do that.
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And then that tactic gets solidified into like a procedure.
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And then it gets burned in and becomes a personality flaw, a behavioral defect.
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You can no longer help yourself. You lie as a way of life. The truth ain't in you.
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And using lies as a strategy or a tactic. That's not cleverness.
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You're not outsmarting anyone.
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It's not clever. You don't have an elevated intellect because you're able to lie.
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It's just a refusal of accountability. That's it.
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It's a refusal to pay the temporary cost of the truth.
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There's no accountability. Now, there are some people out there who may tell
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a lie out of anxiety or stress.
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And when they get called on it and somebody catches that lie,
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they crumble and they fold and they come clean. I'm sorry. I was just trying
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to avoid blah, blah, blah.
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That is completely forgivable. It's understandable.
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Survival mechanism. But when you get called on it, that don't sound right. Are you sure?
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Oh, no, I'm not. I'm sorry.
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And if it's followed by the immediate correction and admission of a lie,
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it's forgiven. It's done. It's forgotten.
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It doesn't stick. It doesn't stick with you. It doesn't stick with them. It doesn't stick.
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It's excusable as a temp, like, oh yeah, it was this little survival mechanism. I'm sorry.
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But when it becomes a pattern and you do not own and you do not account for
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it, it becomes a pattern that destroys a family.
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And that works way different than.
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The lie that was owned and accepted.
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And the liar who lies as just a course of the day, they prioritize the facade,
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the image, overall, over all else.
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Spouse, children, extended family, work, doesn't matter.
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Whatever that facade is whether it's the victim facade or the hero facade they
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lie to protect it no matter what,
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even though it's only important to them exposure that lie or admission of that lie to the liar,
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yeah threatens to crumble that image that fragile delicate image that they have
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built up in their mind, I guess.
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So they have to protect it at all costs.
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It's a tragedy. It's a damn tragedy. Lives are destroyed.
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Narcissistic personality disorder, well, that's a clinical diagnosis, right?
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And it's not to be used lightly. It's not a, you don't just toss that out as a slur.
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I talked about words meaning things. I talked about this in the episode on hate.
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It's not a casual slur. And lying alone is not one of narcissism's definitional criteria.
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Alone, it's not.
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Lying simply goes along with all the other traits, just as a given.
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Yeah, it's just a given. No thought whether or not the lie is the purpose or
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not. It's just a given that goes along to support the other.
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The self-importance, that image you're trying to uphold. Entitlement.
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You think you deserve. I deserve this. I deserve that. So the lie supports that.
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And another trait of narcissism is you have zero appetite for accountability,
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you will not take ownership of any fault whatsoever,
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so that pushes the the person to manipulate the facts in order to keep the upper
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hand that's what a narcissist does,
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so the lying alone is not an inherent trait All the other parts are just supported with the lie.
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And very similarly, antisocial personality disorder, the difference there is
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antisocial personality disorder names the lying directly.
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And that is a trait, that there is repeated lying in order to gain something,
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either for some kind of tangible gain or some kind of pleasurable gain.
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Or even the upper hand.
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And a lack of empathy, a lack of understanding of how your lies affect the people around you.
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The narcissistic personality disorder and the antisocial personality disorder,
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there is a lot of overlap.
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Yeah, there's a lot of overlap.
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And where those two pathologies overlap, the lying is not an exception to the rule. No.
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Lying is the standard. That's it.
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And both of those pathologies lack any iota. of empathy.
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Both of those pathologies exploit other people.
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And I don't mean exploit in the sense of trafficking sex workers.
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I mean exploit emotionally, just daily life.
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You're exploiting their emotions to either reinforce your,
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views, or you're exploiting their emotions to set up a condition where you can
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then belittle and argue and fight about a thing and accuse them of a thing.
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It's exploitation.
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The narcissist will lie to hold some imaginary moral high ground,
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superiority over the others.
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And it minimizes any fault that may be on you.
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And it treats any exposure of the lie as an insult rather than an observable fact.
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I walk into a room, I see with my own eyes and I say, what the fuck?
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And then you get, the narcissist will then accuse you of noticing the lie.
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And the antisocial side lies for some gain, yeah, financial,
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whatever, some pleasure,
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to protect an inappropriate dalliance, a relationship that they know good and goddamn well is wrong.
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And they feel zero fucking remorse for that relationship that they know to be wrong.
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And they feel zero remorse that the effects of that relationship may negatively
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impact their spouse, their children.
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So the motives merge for the narcissist and for the antisocial.
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The motives are similar.
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Yeah, they're similar. And the truth, it's always in flux. It's always fluid. It's fluid.
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It has to be fluid so that it can be bent to expose or not to expose the liar.
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The liar needs to be able to deny a thing. They need to be able to deny a thing,
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that they've already decided that they deserve. I deserve this relationship.
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I've been unhappy for so long. I deserve this sexual dalliance.
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I deserve that special friend to vent to I deserve physical release I've been so unhappy for so long,
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I deserve someone to take care of me My life's been so hard,
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My life's hard And the problem here is that getting caught in a lie doesn't
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fix anything Because the narcissist or the antisocial or I guess even the compulsive liar,
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they don't use that as like a release.
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Like, okay, I've been found out. Thank God. Clean slate.
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Let me just come clean. Let's work through and be happy. Nah, nah.
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Can't do that. I can't take that temporary humility, that humbling of admitting
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the lie and coming clean. No, they can't take that.
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That's beneath it. They can't take that. They can't be seen as having been caught.
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So it's not a fresh start point to where they can repair their relationship. No.
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Instead, the liar reframes it. They reshape it.
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Out of context and put it into a new easier to explain context,
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and then blames the person who was lied to for noticing and for being wrong,
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for just taking it out of context then they're arguing over,
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noticing the lie not the lie the lie becomes secondary then they argue over
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you noticing the lie and they treat it as important as it is what's for fucking
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supper it they don't care they're just trying to get the argument over with,
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but everyone else around everyone else around,
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they're learning valuable lessons from from this and what everyone else to include your children.
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They're learning that words don't mean anything. Words are pliable.
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They can change. We can change the words. Who cares?
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But patterns don't change.
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Patterns don't change. The test here is not to whether we are correctly labeling,
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narcissistic behavior disorder or antisocial, excuse me, antisocial behavioral disorder.
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That's not the test. The test is what happens once the lie breaks.
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That's the test. How do they react once the lie is discovered?
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Because once you're found out, a liar, a committed liar, they won't. They won't.
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They won't own the lie. They will not accept it as a fact, even though it was
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an observable fact, even though there's texts and videos,
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and the bank statement, bank statement will tell on you every time the liar, the true deep liar,
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they start, they start with the framework, the manipulated context.
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And if they can control the context, they can always accuse you of misunderstanding.
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If they're always changing the context a little bit here and there,
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they can always accuse you of misunderstanding.
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You took it wrong. It was just one time. You blew it out of proportion.
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You're keeping score. You're always looking for something. You're the problem
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for noticing the damn problem.
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And a tactic for liars sometimes,
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is they'll confess a smaller sin in order to cover the bigger sin that's a tactic,
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they think it's clever they think they're special they think they're only ones
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who thought of it this hasn't been done for freaking centuries,
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and worse yet the liar who knows good and damn well they've lied,
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they've manipulated the context to try to, I think the word is gaslight you,
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to make you feel crazy for catching them in a lie,
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they'll demand an apology.
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They don't owe you an apology for lying. They don't owe you coming clean.
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You owe them an apology for accusing them, for seeing something as a lie.
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As if it's absolutely inconceivable that they would lie to you,
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because they're such perfect angels, because they got beautiful blue eyes.
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They're perfect angels.
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Well, the constant lying exposes the emptiness behind the pretty blue eyes, the emptiness.
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Yeah. And one of the favorite words of a liar is coincidence.
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It's a coincidence. It's just a crazy coincidence.
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In my career, I've done a lot of, like, surveillance-type work.
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Business, as in life, there's no such thing as coincidence.
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You see someone once, okay. You see them twice, not okay.
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You see them three times, that's it, it's done.
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They're following you. Twice is a coincidence, possibly. Even then it's suspect.
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Three times, nope.
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So if you've been lied to once, twice, three, four, five times.
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You've lost juice. The coincidence has lost its juice.
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That's just a slap in the face to say it after that.
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It's just a slap in the face. There's a pattern. It's not coincidence. It's called a pattern.
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Patterns repeat. That's the definition of a pattern.
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A person who lies about money will lie about money again.
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A person who lies about where she was will lie about where she goes again.
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A person who lies about who she's with will lie about who she's with again.
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A person who lies to avoid facing the lie will lie the next time you lay a found lie on the table.
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You don't need psychological theory to understand this shit.
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You just need pattern recognition.
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Liars among us. They don't live in a vacuum. They have families,
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co-workers, alleged friends.
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And here's the trap, though. Early on, they're warm. They're charming,
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agreeable. I like this person.
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They mirror what you want in a person. They are in what you, yeah, they mirror you.
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And if you're an honest person, then they mirror that to a degree.
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And that new relationship gets the best version of them to establish a foothold.
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And maybe they have no ill intent because these people, they haven't seen the cracks.
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They haven't seen the real you yet.
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So you're always trying to develop new relationships with new people because they don't know.
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The old relationships, They carry all the carnage They carry all the carnage,
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So the liar just rotates out.
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Out of the room where the fricking, where the facts are and walks into a room
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where the story's fresh and new and nobody's onto the lies.
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And employers, supposed friends, partners, spouses, and your children,
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you cycle through the same cycle.
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You start out with the charm. then there's inconsistencies that start to peek
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through then there's a confrontation about these inconsistencies these half truths these omissions,
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and then you discard the relationship as though it meant nothing,
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and then go look for a redo somewhere else where the cycle starts all over again,
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and the people who stay in this cycle they learn a very painful, very painful fact,
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is that they cannot trust one damn sentence that comes out of your mouth.
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It always has to be filtered through what does she really mean?
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What does he really mean?
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They said this, but what are the cut and dry facts and how much of it was emotional
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embellishment or outright untruth.
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You can't be trusted with the truth.
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We can only trust the pattern. I see the pattern and nobody follows up with
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you anymore. Now they just watch what you do.
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So you feel like you're being unjustly judged.
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I'm just judging the pattern. And what does this do in a marriage?
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Oh my God, it kills any legitimate intimacy.
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And then the marriage is not, it's not a marriage. It's not a relationship of
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two people who have mutual love and respect for one another.
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It's a little counting, daily accounting thing.
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Say, where's this? Why is that gone? What's going on here?
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Where were you at it? You're supposed to be off at four. How come you didn't get home till six?
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You're no longer planning a future with each other. Now you're just constantly
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worried about what's happening right now. Am I being lied to?
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Is my spouse out in bed with someone else?
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You got to judge based off mood of what you're allowed to say and what tone
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you're allowed to say it in.
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The marriage is no longer a marriage. No, it's not a marriage.
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And you put that pattern on a young marriage with kids.
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You know, this is probably getting to be an old subject here I'm talking about
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on this podcast. Like I've hit this a few times and sort of from different angles.
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It's the same basic topic.
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It's the same basic topic. The,
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predictable. You're not unique. This stuff has been documented over decades.
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It's predictable. The outcomes are predictable. And if you blow the predicted
27:18
outcomes off, oh, well, it's not going to happen to us.
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Well, wait and see. There's nothing but bad vibes going on in the house.
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The spouses don't trust each other with basic information to bring legitimate
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problems to each other because they can't trust the words that are coming back.
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The spouse has to craft.
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Every single question or every single conversation and weigh it against the cost of a big fight.
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That's no way to live. And the spouse that's being lied to or the partner that's being lied to,
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they've got to carry around two incompatible,
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realities the one reality is the lie right well this is what was said that's
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meant to be reality that's what I'm told is reality,
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and then the second reality is is just that what the bank statement says what
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the text says what the video the.
28:25
Special friend said. And then any kind of marital reliance upon one another
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and trust in one another becomes resentment.
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And I've talked about it in great detail, resentment.
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And everything crumbles. Your sex life crumbles. Your money is crumbling.
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One that sneaks, everybody's sneaking and around.
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Future plans, non-existent. There is no longer planning for the future at all,
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which should be a constant process, by the way.
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If you're in a happy marriage, you should always be planning for the future, always.
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How can we make things better? Incremental improvements.
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That's what normal, rational, married people do. You can't do those things because
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it requires a shared reality.
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You guys got to be living in the same reality. and the light would liar there
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is there is no shared reality,
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there there's the false reality that you're living in and telling lies about
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and then there's the reality of well the kids got to go get picked up from the bus stop,
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kids watch the kids watch the kids listen and.
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Same lessons that their lying-ass parents absorbed when they observed their lying-ass parents.
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They hear one story sitting on the living room couch, and then they hear another
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story when they're in the car and you're on the phone.
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And what they learn is the truth is freaking optional. That's it. It's optional.
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It's not even who deserves the truth and who deserves a lie.
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Once a lie is acceptable, it's acceptable to everyone.
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You can lie to your mom, your dad, your spouse, your teacher,
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your preacher, whoever. It doesn't matter now. It doesn't matter.
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Once the kids have been impressed upon that a lie, well, that's just the price of being an adult.
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You've undermined their entire young adulthood. you've undermined their life,
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the kids copy it they copy it they repeat it.
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Lie to the teacher. They lie to you.
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Then they lie to their girlfriend or boyfriend. Then they lie to their spouse.
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And they call it normal. And they say, oh, it's normal. It's normal.
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Well, unfortunately to them, it is normal.
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Because you've developed that frigging environment to where lying is the norm.
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And look, some kids out there, the clever ones, and I mean smart,
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clever kids, they take the opposite
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route. They don't lie because it makes them sick to their stomach.
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But what does it do though?
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They don't trust anyone because they think everyone's lying.
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Even the parent that doesn't lie to them. It only takes one parent to destroy a child's life with lies,
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and so the clever kids now they don't trust a living soul and that's a hard
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way to live too it's better than being a liar,
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better than being a liar you don't trust a living soul because you witness your
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parents tell filthy fucking lies and it makes you sick to your stomach,
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and this habitual lying it fails in every part of life that requires any kind
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of shared existence The children live in that shared existence.
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Your spouse, your in-laws, your siblings, your bank account lives in that shared
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existence if you have a joint bank account.
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Your job hop, work fails because there's some personality conflict,
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because someone sees a pattern. They may be looking for it.
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Six, eight different jobs and have quit everyone over personality conflict,
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perhaps you're the common thread in that.
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Any true friendship fails because you will readily lie.
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Anyone with any integrity won't know, okay, well, that's it, I'm done.
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Possibly your damn health could fail because you're not honest with your doctor.
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If you're a hypochondriac and you go to the hospital every three weeks with some bizarre ailment,
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pretty soon the boy who cried wolf effect takes over and then your real ailments
33:13
get overlooked because they're just shuffling you in, shuffling you out.
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You can't be a liar and be a good parent.
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You cannot be a liar and be a good parent.
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You cannot help build a stable foundation of conscience for a kid who knows
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there's a sliding moral scale,
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and then the liar reads any failure.
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As a betrayal from everyone else,
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without taking any ownership whatsoever so the liar packs up the bags and moves,
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I have to escape this toxic situation without ever acknowledging that,
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you're part of that toxicity.
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The pattern sticks with the liar.
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Yeah, it'll follow you. Yeah.
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You might not claim it, but you own it. Can't outrun the patterns.
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You built them. And you built them to last.
34:23
Yeah. You built your lies to last. So when they get found out, you move out.
34:28
So the reality is your lies don't last.
34:33
Your pattern of lying to cover lies, that lasts forever.
34:38
Unless you recognize and choose to just stop what you're doing.
34:43
Spend one solid month with a little bit of goddamn humility,
34:49
a little bit of accountability, and accept your piece of all this madness,
34:54
let all this madness go, and just choose to prioritize the truth.
35:02
A marriage can survive a lie. Yeah. A marriage can survive a lie.
35:07
It cannot withstand the method, the methodology of lying and covering and lying and covering.
35:19
It can fight through a lie. Confessing a lie, giving a full accountability and
35:25
a change in your behavior. Yeah.
35:29
Within And an admission and an honest attempt, not an honest attempt,
35:37
an honest effort to change, to just acknowledge, I'm not going to lie anymore.
35:45
You can repair your relationship. You can repair your relationship.
35:53
And you hit with an excuse and a cover story straight away, if you have a cover
36:00
story before you even leave the house, you don't want to fix anything.
36:05
The children are going to learn that. That's what they're going to learn.
36:08
They're going to see that. They're going to learn that.
36:12
If you want the better life that you think you deserve, you think you deserve
36:17
so much, you think you deserve the fairy tale,
36:21
then then take steps to build it through honesty you can have it you may not
36:28
deserve it nobody deserves anything they don't work for you can have the fairy tale life,
36:35
but the fairy tale life for the spouse is that you're honest with them if the
36:40
fairy tale life for you is that you you can do whatever you want spouse be damned,
36:47
then you're living that that's not a fairy tale that's a Grimm's fairytale.
36:50
That's a nightmare for the other person.
36:53
If you want that better life, you got to break your patterns of lying.
36:58
If you're an alcoholic and you want a better life, then you got to stop drinking.
37:03
That's it. It's no different. What about alcoholism? You've got to acknowledge that you have a problem.
37:09
First, acknowledge it and then make your mind up to be done with it and then put the work in.
37:17
Stop using lies in routine conversation in your daily life.
37:24
You don't need little embellishments.
37:26
You don't need to smooth anybody over. You don't need to sound better than you are.
37:34
You need to be genuine.
37:37
You,
37:38
ownership. You have to face truth. Embrace truth.
37:47
Use truth the same way you use lies, and you will have exponentially better results in your life.
37:58
And the people you claim to love will recognize that,
38:03
and they will appreciate that, and they will return the favor in kind that's
38:10
what I got lying don't do it why is it.
38:17
Is it that hard is it hard to be honest and say look I'm not happy we need a change that seems hard,
38:29
it's infinitely better than going out and fucking around,
38:36
and then your spouse say hey What are you doing now?
38:41
You always accuse me. How can you stand on that?
38:47
How can you know you're wrong and stand on it? It,
38:53
blows my mind. I don't know what else to say about it. Embrace the truth.
38:59
That's it. Thanks for listening.