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#055_ The Making of an Olympic Legend · INSPIRE STORY

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Well cool, let's us rock right into it. Man to
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: see you, good to see Yeah, nice to finally meet you.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: And it's very nice to meet you.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: I fology following you for a very long time, you know.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: So it's it's yeah, a couple of things I think,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: you know. And it's funny because this podcast has become
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: like a I don't know, like it's become like the
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Australian podcast. I have so many Australians on the show.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: I just put up, do you know Paul de Gelder, Yeah,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: so he I just put him up the other day.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Like now I'm staring at another super rips ball Australian dude,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: you know, and I'm like, I want to be an
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: honorary Australian. What do they call it? That you have
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: the o A that's like being that's like being knighted.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well yeah, poles Pole's stories it's amazing.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: It's crazy, right.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've bumped into him and Bondai. He was I'm
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: not sure if he's living there, but he's you know,
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: his attitude to it intowards the story is just phenomenal.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean his ability to kind of transcend that
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: experience and be this inspirational figure. Like and I said
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: this in the podcast, like I knew his story was crazy,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: but I didn't have a grip on like what a
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: great storyteller he is and how inspirational is the way
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: that he tells the story.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: But you'll grab from the hospitals.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: It's unbelievable. So yeah, he lives here. Now, he lives
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: in Venice, so he's he's having to go here. He
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: does all this Shark Week stuff for Discovery Channel and
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: making a name for himself out here.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: So you know, you've got a big following in Well,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: we love ultra sports, we love swimming.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: You know, well, the swimming culture is insane. I mean,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: I don't think Americans really appreciator can understand the reverence
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: with which you know, the swimmer is perceived in Australian.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's definitely our number one Olympic sport. And
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: it's you know, in in the Europe they probably send
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: their kids to soccer training or you know, learn soccer.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: In Australia, it's learned to swim. It's a first sport
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: pretty much as soon as you know InFine aquatics is
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: like you know, it's not compulsory in every school, but
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: it will be pretty soon, I think. So I learned
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: to swim with the first sport everyone learns.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right away, like as soon as you can.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Walk, right yeah, pretty much.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: But you're you're originally from Poland, right yeah.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: So I've got a pretty interesting story. I was born
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: in Poland. My parents, my dad worked for the Polish consulate,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: so we traveled a lot growing up. So I moved
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: to India when I was when I was one and
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: a half, I spent so I actually learned to swim
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: in India for a country that's kind of probably more
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: known for its cricket and ye.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Powerhouse.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: But it's funny how history repeats itself because I'm I'm
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: living in Balin most of my time, and I go
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: to a little bit of a country club. My kids
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: spend my of their life, and the country come so
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: very much the way I grew up. And you know,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Dad used to drop us off on the way to
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: work and pick us up eight hours later. And you
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: know the only thing I could do was just playing
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: the water and have fun. And that's how I sort
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: of got this infinity, kind of like this affinity with
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: the water that I just can't describe. So, yeah, that
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: was early on.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: So you you spend most of the time in Bali
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: and then the rest of the time in Melbourne.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I sort of split my time between my business,
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: which I've got a skincare company now and we sort
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: of we've got a skin fitness range of products, and
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: then we also enough. Yeah, my kids live in Bali,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: so I split my time between.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Balley and the day do they go to the Green School?
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: They do the Green School.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Indeed, every day I hear about the Green School. I
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: have a very good friend here in Malibu and he
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: splits his time between Bali and here, and he just
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: left again and both his kids go to the Green School.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: I've got a really good friend who's a meditation teacher
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: named Charlie Knowles. He's got a whole bunch of k
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: to go to school there, and so I'm always seeing
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: photos and little videos of what goes on there. And
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: then our mutual friend David spend time there, and so
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: I'm very familiar with what goes on there. I mean,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: that place is unbelievable.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's insane, and you know, John John Hardy founded it,
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: the Jeweler, and it's yeah, it's quite insane, you know
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: in terms of for me, I've seen the development in
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: my kids, the growth in terms of their confidence, and
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: it's just it's just a different approach to education, which
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: you know they kind of Yeah, it's it's a community.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: It's very cult like sometimes, but it's ive heard.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: Like, well, my friend Chris said like, yeah, like you
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: drop your kids off from school and then all the
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: parents hang out, Yeah the whole day, like nobody's working,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Like what is going on there? And there's no walls,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: like it's all outdoor education.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you know, it's basically self sustainable. They go
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: water to buy and so it's a yeah, it's a
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: really good sort of from my kids, especially my son
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: where he's got a bit of of a speech impediment
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: and he was really shy, especially socially, and within three
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: years he's now narrating the school play in front of
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: hundreds of kids and he you know, like he's got
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: this air of confidence, but it's still you know, I
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: think it's just the school's empowered him to believe in
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: himself and he's still got a beautiful personality. So yeah,
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: so it's definitely it gets some kind of street ready
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: in a sense.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it's super cool. It's really cool. All right, Well,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: let's start swimming. So you grow up, you grow up,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: you know, basically with wet hair, you know as Yeah,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: I mean were you were? You? Were you like a
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: talent from the get go? Did you know, like early on,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: like oh man, this is like my thing? Or were
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: you just playing a whole bunch of sports?
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: No, I was. I definitely played a lot of different sports.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: But for me, swimming was something that because when I traveled,
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: as I explained earlier, went from India back to Poland, Germany, Canada,
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: and then eventually moved to Australia, and all these things
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: were changing in my life and from languages, near school
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: environments and new you know, circles of friends, et cetera,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: the only thing that kind of remained constant for me
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: was my swimming. It was kind of like I could
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: join any squad at any country and kind of fit in.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Did you learn all the languages everywhere you live?
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much. I had to learn English and German
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: and I'm still learning English.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Actually Plish is your first language?
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Yes, I speak Plish? Yeah, so so yeah, So for me,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: swimming was something that I was. I used to gravitate
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: to because I was kind of good at it and
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: it kind of you know, give me, gave me acceptance,
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: get around, you know, in the circle of friends that
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: I was in. But but yeah, my tennis is actually
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: my family is actually probably a tennis family. My sister
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: played professionally and so that my dad. So I was
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: I tried. I didn't kind of have the temperament for
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: tennis being a sprinter. I sort of too much time
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: to think on the ten it's great, but yeah, so
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: I definitely, you know it, it was something that I
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: had a really good, sort of strong idea that I
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: wanted to pursue it for a early age.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: And how does it work in Australia. Is it like
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: a club program kind of thing or is it through
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: the schools? Like I know, once you kind of you
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: get noticed as an emerging talent, there's all these you know,
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: there's all this structure that comes into play.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: But yeah, look it's still very amateur. It still comes
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: through in traditional club you know, club structure. And then
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: there is state funding, State Institute of Sport, and then
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: there's the obviously the overarching Sports Commission who sort of
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: facilitate through the Australian Swimming programs, but it's still very
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: much you know, they learned. There's some schools feed the
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: swimming clubs and then you can obviously join some of
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: the elite squads that still exists, but it's still predominantly
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: a club club setup. And yeah, we're still pretty a
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: small country and we actually in the middle of a
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: comath gamestrials the moment that's going on right now. Yeah,
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: so but yeah, it's still you know, for us, it's
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: it's still a pretty simple, simple process.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Does Australian Institute of Sport still exist?
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: I just remember when I was a kid, I was like, man,
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: what goes on there? Like that's They're like serious, Well,
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: I spent eight years there. So when I was I
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: was fifteen, I was tapped on the shoulder by two guys.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: One was Gennadi to Rescue, who was the coach of
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: Alex Popoff, and the other one was Jim Fowley, who's
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: who came from Pico in Toronto and so yeah, yeah,
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: that's right, and then Mitch Ivy before that.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: So yeah, so it was it was sort of at
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: the age of fifteen and they said, oh we want
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: you to move to Camber and live there. In the
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: lead up to Sydney and you know, they already were
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: identifying who was good, could be good and could be
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: a good fit for the relay and and for me,
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: you know, the you know, the coach of the greatest
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: sprinter of all time just asked me to train with him.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: So yeah, a year later I packed up the bags
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: and mom and dad drove me up the highway up
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: to up to Canberra from Melbourne. So yes, I moved
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: out at home and made that sacrifice to solely pursued swimming.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Any of the institute is you know people sort of
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: they are. They're not very complimentary about Canberra. It's it's
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: a pretty boring place.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: But let's repulse from he was telling me a little
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: bit about what it was like there. I mean, it's
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: definitely different from what you imagine. Yeah, Melbourne and Sydney.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: To absolutely it's Look, it's it's a military to town
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: and where it's now it's got a couple of good
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: universities as well. But for us, it was the idea
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: for what we were doing, you know, just training with
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: great facilities. Still, the facilities are far superior to any
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: other complex and in Australia, so now it's more use
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: for there's no more resident program that the Institute of Sport.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: It's more sort of for camps et cetera, similar to
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: Colorado Springs actually.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: And does it work the same in terms of Olympic
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: trials and qualifying for the team as it does in
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: this dates where you have a meet and you get
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: first or second, and you go and.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're at home pretty much. And you know, traditionally
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: we have our trials two or three months prior to
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: the big meat, you know, having having seen the success
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: of the US team. This time we're actually having the
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: trials from the come off games only five weeks out
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: of the common Games. So I think it makes sense.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: It's I think there's a lot of you know, opportunity
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: for error, and you know, a lot of things can
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: happen between you know, between now and then say two
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: or three months time. So I think eliminates the there's
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: always there's always gray in the black and white scenario. Right.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Well, it's a super tricky equation. I mean for people
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: that listen, that are listening who aren't familiar with swimming,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, you basically bust your ass for nine months
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: or however long and then and then you taper down
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks, you know, maybe a month
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: if you're a sprinter like you, I don't know what
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: your particular protocol is, and you hang it all out
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: to dry in that one meat. And if it's trials,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: that's usual as competitive, if not more competitive, more high
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: pressure than the Olympics itself. You make the team and
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: then you're looking at five weeks and that's a very
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: difficult kind of thing to approach because you can't just
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: coast for five weeks. You got to kind of build
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: back up, but you can't build back up too much.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: And some people hit it right and some people miss
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: it all together and have really bla like lostter Olympic performances.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Look, we've tried it and I think it's Look,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: I think swimming does we only have that big meat
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: once every four years Olympic Olympic Games, and you know
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: the World Champs are on every second year, but it
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: is you know, we have two big hitouts a year
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: in Australia, not like the US. We've got the n
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: C two A system and you can really raise competitively
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: and have really good sort of hitouts regularly, whereas so
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Astraya's have struggled finding competitions being so geographically so far
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: removed from everything. But you know, it's you know, we're
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: getting there. I was very fortunate that my era was,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: you know, and the likes of thought Open Hackett and
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Perkinson and O'Neill and Samantha Riley and you know, Lisa
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Jones and maybe tricked then you know it almost they could.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: They probably got away with not racing as much. But
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: the you know, the depth of the in the world
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: of swimming has changed. I't think, you know, the Eastern
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: European countries that have come up a lot, and also
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: the Asian countries are swimming really well as well. So
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: it's a different picture too when I was swimming, But.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: You were a member, like a you know, a gold
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: plated member of the Golden Era of Australian swimming. I
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: mean that that period of time, I mean was the
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: ascendancy of Australian swimming. I mean, you guys were a powerhouse.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: It was unbelievable from you know, I don't know, ninety
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: eight to two thousand and eight or something like that,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: two thousand and six and that Sydney Olympics was really
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: kind of a coming out party for Australian swimming. I mean,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: you've been up, you know, a global power for a
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: long time, but that was something else altogether. Yeah, it
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: was really like it was quite something.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was, you know, to get to get an
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: Olympic Games and home soil for Australia. The one prior
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: to that was the fifty six in Melbourne, and you know,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: we you know, the Aussies have so much pride in
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: their sport. It's so fanatical, similar to to you guys.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: And it was a magical two weeks in Sydney. The
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: weather was fantastic, there was no traffic, everyone was happy
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: and smiling. So I don't know the Olympic the Olympic
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: kind of.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Fever, but the talent pool that you had was unbelievable.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look it was. You know, it was Hackey's first
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Olympic gold was in he broke the world record in
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: the four hundred and wonder silver and the two hundred
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: and wonder four by one and then four by two
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: with me and yeah, we had you know, it was
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Kieran's last sim but you know we had the likes
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: of Sissy and Neil still you know, winning gold and
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: a turnt a freestyle, and yeah, it was just an
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: amazing team and it sort of was led by these guys.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: We had a really good mix of up and coming,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: you know, the likes of hack It and Thought, which
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: I mentioned, but you know that Susy and Neil and
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Perkins on the on the ladder end of their careers
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: and sort of myself and Jiff Hugel and a couple
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: other slotted right there in the middle. And yeah, I
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: was very fortunate, as I said, to have you know,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: an the Olympics on home sol was just phenomenal. And
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: you know, I was part of the race that you know,
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: I'm well known in Australia for playing an egg guitar.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know we're going to get into that all. Well,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: we had I had Anthony Irvin in here, so we
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: talked about that a little bit and I was like,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: I got to get Clem in here to hear it
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: the first hand. But I think, like, that's that is
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: my before I met you, you know, like I'm like,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: that's my visual image of you, Like I just remember,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: that's like imprinted seared into my brain. Like that moment.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: So I mean, maybe walk us through that story for
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: people that are new to the show.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, sure. So look, I mean, you guys that
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: the Americans had never been beaten in the four bah
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: one free star relay in the Olympic history until that moment.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: So the inception was nineteen seventy two, I think of
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: the event. So yeah, it's and you know through the
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: n C two A program, and you know, you're just
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: so strong in relays, you know how to raise them,
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: how to put the team together heats and finals. And
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: we we had one guy, Brad Hawk, who was racing
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: in the fifty freestyle, was from the Auburn system and
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Auburn University, and he kind of he trying to help
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: helped us. How how could we put together a team
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: that could challenge his superpower and the four one freestyle relay.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: And we had myself, who was you know, I was
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: the highest rngth freestylar, third number number third in the world.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Ian Thorpe was a four hundred freestyllar but had some
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: potential at Chris Fidler was older statesman, and Ashley Callas
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: was a rookie, so we we really didn't have a
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: team that was you know, like in the American team
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: had pretty much I think.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: We had Gary Hall, who's the number one ship talker,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: so he don't want to instigated this whole thing. And
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Tony Irvin yeah, and Jason Lee and it was new
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Walker and those are more prominent needs at the time.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. And look, I'm still it's funny how
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: sport you realize how spotted for us it was everything,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: you know, like I was for us winning that relay.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: It changed my life. You know, people still walk down
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: the street and.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Do this, I'm sure, and you we should we should
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: point out that you broke the world record in the
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: hunter free leading off that really.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's to this point it's still my best ever swim,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: you know one. Yeah, So it just look, we basically
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: this is the strategy we we you know, we had.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: We basically wanted to try and get a lead somehow
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: and and then get the Americans to overrace the each
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: leg and then you guys aren't used to coming second
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: very often, so it was kind of it threw them
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: off the.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Game back then.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Now back then, so it's sort of and we're just
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: our psychology was really just to make sure that last
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: twenty meters into the war was really strong. So we're
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: just we're focusing on back ending every single leg. And
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: if you look at the splits after the second, third,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: fourth simmer, you guys are always turning first at the
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: at the fifty meter end, and we were turning first
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: at the at the and the hundred meter end. So
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: it was it was just a real tactical event that
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: sort of fell our way. But it was yeah, and look,
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: to be honest, and to give Gary credit, he's an
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: amazing ambassador for the sport. He was the first one
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: to shake my hand after the event, and I'm actually
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: still in touch with him these days. And you know
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: that's kind of you know, eighteen years ago. It's yeah, long,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: it's history, but it's it's sort of shaped the sport.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: He had a great rivalry with pop Off that I
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: used to watch in ninety six.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: And you know, he was amazing because he brought entertainment
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: to absolutely by being this, you know, really bold, you know,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: kind of outspoken muhammadah Wei type character. And just for
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: people that are listening, what happened was he went on
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: record he told some a reporter, We're going to smash
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: the Yaussies like you know, like guitars or something like that, right,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: And so when you guys won, you're all playing air
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: guitar like it.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Was actually in Philpy's ideas. So yeah, so it was
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: one of those moments. So we're still regarded for us
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: in the Olympic history as one of the that's.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: One of the greatest races ever. One of the interesting
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: things you just said, like you guys really focused on,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: you know, the last part of those one hundred meter legs.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: And one thing that you are unique in is you
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: have this very interesting way that you finish your races.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: But you're the only person I've ever seen who lunges
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: into the wall with a couple of underwater dolphin kids
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: on your way in. I've never seen anyone else do that. Like,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: where did that come from? And why do you think
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: that that was like your advantage?
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, I trained a lot with obviously Gnaldi Treitsky
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: being my coach, and initially I started swimming trying to
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: immulate Alex and I wanted to have this beautiful high
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: elbow recovery. But I very soon found out that it
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: was I wasn't six foot eight, I didn't have his physique,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: and I started as a drill we started swimming, we
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: used to have dolphin kick free style with your head up,
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: and it was kind of a water polo drill, just
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: to sort of emphasize this good dynamic recovery. And then
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: I was and then we have another drill, just a
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: windmill drill with straight arm free styff, and then we
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: just thought of a combining both of them as a
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: drill only dolphin kick with straight arms, just to really
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: emphasize each stroke and throwing a hand for it, et cetera.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: And I started just my first time I did it,
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: I just felt like I was floating from stroke to stroke.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Each kick kind of gave me extra inertia from stroke
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: to stroke. And Gnani got me at like twenty four
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: points something for a fifty three, and I was like,
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: this could actually work, you know. And my legs were
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: my weakness and and probably psychologically I always used to think,
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: I hope my legs don't go. I hope my legs
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: don't go, and and you know the less when I
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: wasn't psychologically strong in my races, I normally probably used
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: to kick earlier than I needed to. But yeah, so
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: it became a good way for me to keep momentum
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: into the war.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: And why do you think no one else started doing this?
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Well, I think it's you know, that transition from freestyle
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: kick to dolphin kick. You have to really it's awkward. Yeah,
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: so I know that. I know that Michael Felt started
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: a couple of times at the last Olympic trials, and
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: but I think, yeah, when he got to Ria, he
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: went back to his original stroke. So yeah, okase, you
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: know I had to be innovative, you know, I don't.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: I'm not much taller than the average, not much stronger
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: than the average.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: And so strong right now. Yeah, I mean you're a
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: big boy, you know, let's get that straight. But I
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: think you, I think you innovated in another way, which
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: is that you you did have this like straight arm
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: recovery in your butterfly as well. And now when you
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: look at swimming, now everybody's doing that, Like the swimmers
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: look weird, like it doesn't look like I'm like, what
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: are they doing? That doesn't look anything like the way
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: that we used to swim. And you know, I'm older
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: than you, but I was at a I went and
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: did a sim practice with Connor Dwyer down at usc
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: with Johnny Bancheck and got to swim with all these
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: guys and like they're all doing they're all doing that,
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: you know, and they're like, put your head down. I
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: was always thought to put my head, you know, like
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: the waterline here, and they're like, like the technique aspect,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: they figured out so many things, and I think your
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: straight arm recovery was very unusual at the time. No
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: one doing that.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and look I and that's actually touching back on
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: the Institute of Sport. You know, it was Australia swimming
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: had to be resourceful because we didn't have hundreds of
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: swimmers coming through and we we used to fall back
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: a lot on you know, physiology and biomechanics and you
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: know and nutrition. So we kind of had to use
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: all everything that was available to us to get the
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: most out of our team. So yeah, and then you know,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: I tested, I tested the stroke a number of times
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: and yeah, for me, it definitely gave me. I wouldn't
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: say an advantage, but it just sort of kept me
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: when especially when the suits came in and I had
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: had a stronger, sort of more aligned cores, I could
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: sort of keep my momentum into the war. But yeah,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: as you said, pretty much all the sprinters are doing
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: it now.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's crazy to s Yeah, right, so what like
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: twenty one world records, how many world records something like that,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: eight thousand Olympic medals and then you had that crazy
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: World Championships where you won, like I don't know everything
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: pretty much, right, Yeah, it'll take you track.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: Of seven medals. Yeah, you know at the time after
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: Spits was the first time and anyone had won seven.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: So then obviously, you know, Michael came along after that.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Right of course rewrote everything. But is there is there
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: a particular performance that stands out, is your favorite or
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: does it all bleed together as a big experience.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: No. I think for me that week in Perth was
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: as an individual performance was I was probably not my
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: most defying because it's sort of yeah, I had broken
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: the world record one hundred fly in October and the
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: World Championships were in January, and I wasn't Yeah, I
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: was in great shape physically, and also I was still
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: pretty pretty fresh. I hadn't been you know, I spent
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: only a few years with alex and and I was
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: really sort of targeting the two hundred three and I
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: managed to win that on the first night, but and
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: I started getting really tired towards the end of the meet,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: and you know, I qualified only fourth for one hundred
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: fly final and it's the first time that I in
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: that week. I thought that, shit, I'm not going to
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: I've got a couple more swims to go, I'm not
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: going to even finish this meet. So but yeah, I
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: stood up and won that in a pretty close to
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: world record time as well. So that was a week
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: that kind of all my you know, with the training
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: with Gnardi and the miles. We used to swim up
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: to a hundred k's a week, which about sixty miles
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: a week at times, and it all started really paying off,
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: just you know, falling back into that. Yeah, I had
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: the mentality of every time the gun went, I was
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: I didn't really pace myself from heats to finals whatever,
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: just pretty much so and it all just started coming
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: coming into into into play.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: So what did you learn from Gnardi? Like, what what
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: is the What made him a great coach?
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: I think it was a really interesting coach because he
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: had he was able to adjust not only his approach
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: in terms of the sessions, what we were doing for
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: every swimmer because we're all different physically, you know, and
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: we all recovered differently, and you know, we all need
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: different stimulation and we have. So he was able to
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: get the most out of all the swimmers and even
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: creating five different workouts for five different swimmers on the
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: board in one session, but then also being able to
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: mentally it. He would treat myself different to Alex of course,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: and then Matt Dunn, who was also my training partner,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: he'd have a completely slightly different approach. So that communication
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: with the athlete was probably his key, you know, Like
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: I knew that. You know, he'd probably leave me alone
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: for most of my warm ups and just to peer
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: out of out of the blue, just for the right
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: time when he needed to see me and get a
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: great eye. He could probably watch me for ten seconds
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: I dive into the warm up, he could tell you
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: how I felt right, right and so. And I think
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: that having that real great intuition. So he was well
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: educated but had a great eye for the sport.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: It sounds very similar to where Bob Bowman comes frum.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: Like I was telling you earlier, I was listening to
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: this podcast and Michael Gervai, he's interviewing Bob Bowman, Michael
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Phelps's coach who's also coached a number of other Olympians,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: and he was talking about the importance of the coach
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: athlete relationship and how it's a partnership and how you
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: really have to individuate, you know, amongst these different people,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: and how he could tell, you know, as soon as
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: one of his athletes walked on the deck, Yeah, just
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: look in their eye and you know, like what kind
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: of workout they were going to have because there it
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: was such an intimate, you know, close knit thing and
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: trying to crack like okay, like what you know, how
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: how is you know what makes Michael tick? Like what's
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: going to motivate? You know, you come at them hard,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: you come at him Like that's going to be different
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: for every athlete, And I think it's you know, look,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: when you're when you're dealing with the elite of the
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: elite and you got like ten people you're coaching, it's
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: one thing. You're a club coach. You got fifty kids,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: you know, five in a lane or something like that.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: It's a different thing altogether. But the more that you
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: can understand, you know, what the sort of psychological makeup
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: of the individual.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: And then so people sort of wonder how we you know,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: the simmers still manage to break Wode records, and it's
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: you know, even the suits have gone back to the
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: almost the traditional So it's it is it's the training methods,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: it's being able to I think that the coach swimmer
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: relationship now is so different to say the fifties and
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: the sixties, where it was kind of everyone did the
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: same thing. It was almost a survivors a survivor.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's where it was when I was from.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so now it's you can really you know, I
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: think Bret Hawk, who's obviously swam for Australia our coaches
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: at Auburn, you know, he's been able to pioneer that
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: a bit further as well. And you know, everyone's just
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: the attention to detail, you know, from everything from you know,
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: nutrition to strength training to yeah, technique, et cetera.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: So you were competing in the era of the technical suit,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: and there's that thing like, well, these these records are
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: never going to get broken, Yeah, just going to stay forever, right,
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: and then sure enough they've all are there any records
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: that still stand from that era?
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: I think there might be a couple. I think vitamins
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: turn the freestyle still exists, but yeah, there aren't. There
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: aren't too many, which is which is the main. Oh,
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: it's just good to see.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: No, it's good, you know, but it just it begs
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: the question of like what is the outer limits the
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: execut capability? Because when I look at swimming now, like,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: I'm like, what are they like, I can't even relate
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: to these times, Like I didn't think that that was possible. Yeah, exactly,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: you know, it's it progresses so quickly, much more quickly
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: than track and field. Yeah, it started to slow down
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: a little bit, but it's amazing the frequency with which
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: world records and swimming get broken. Yeah, what do you
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: when you look at that, like, what do you attribute
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: that to? I mean you kind of touched on it
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: a little.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Bit, but look, I think the I mean we spoke about,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: you know, the specific sort of training approach, and I
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: think it's also swimmers don't tend to over over swim
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: as much as what we used to. I think it's
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: become it's become more quality rather than quantity. And and
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: you know, even even I know some of the open
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: water simmers that swim you know, ten k and twenty
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: five k down. You're really training you know, fifty to
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: seventy k is a week, but it's quite intensive. It's
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: so it's I think it's yeah, I think the quality
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: of the training and just periodization, so it's really well, yeah,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: and I think it's it's just more I think. Yeah,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: I think we've just become a lot more clever or
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: they have.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean when I you know, in the eighties,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: it was just get in. I mean we would we
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: be putting in twenty thousand meter days with regular like
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: all the time. You know, I'm just I just walked
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: around like a zombie. Periodization like what is that?
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: You like?
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: There was no conscious awareness of any of that kind
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: of exactly exactly.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: And the most common thing I'm sure you probably remember,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: like most people missed their taper. They would just never
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: come up and it's like your whole year about that,
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: you know, so you know, like you were so tired
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: three weeks out of out of trials of your main meet,
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: but you just you probably need another three I know.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: I don't think there was an appreciation for recovery and
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: like if you beat yourself down that hard, like just
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: how long it's going to take for your body to
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: bounce back. And I think I was chronically overtrained like
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: my entire career.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And it's funny. I don't know it became
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know who let that, but I know that,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: you know, I know that the Russians were training a lot.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: I know, you know, the Aussies were pretty well known
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: for overtraining as well. I think, and I think it
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: just you know, the words spread around the swimming pools
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: that you have to do this. Yeah.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there was that era in the eighties. There were
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: I mean the coaches in the US that were really
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: hitting that hard. You know, Mark Schubert was part of
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: that mission, Viejo, Dick Schulberg, Paul Bergen. Yeah, Paul Bergen
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: was like notorious for just like you know, you hear
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: stories about these workouts that these guys were doing, and
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: you're like, well, I got to do that, yeah, and
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: there are only a few people that could weather that
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: and survive it and excel at that.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah exactly.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: But now with periodization and rest and being very specific
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: about what you're doing and why you're doing, it's like
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: you don't just jump in and go all out every set.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yeah.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: What about the strength training regimen, Look.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: I think there is I think the jury still out
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: on that. I think there's anyone really yet to now that.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: In terms of what is what really what really transfers
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: into the pool, it's such a you know, the the
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: massive water that we pull through the water and the
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: hand being accelerated through the movement rather than you know,
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: doing a doing a seated row is not quite doesn't transmitting. Yeah,
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: so it's I think there is. There's certainly a lot
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: of power movements that have you know, I started doing
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: a little bit of powerlifting, which was great for my
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: start and great for starts and turns. But in terms
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: of overall sort of you know, weight training, it's still
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: you know, and I think some of the conditioning it's
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: it's you know, I think the core definitely, of course
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: stuff is really important. But I think, yeah, there's still
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: doing to probably work it out. I've used to experiment
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: a lot, as the most things I used to experiment with.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's still a lot that can be
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: learned there. I mean I remember at Stanford, like Jeff Costoff,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: who held the high school national record in the five
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: hundred three for like the years, and you know, one
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: institute went to the Olympics, like incredible distance swimmer. He
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: could We used to like make fun of him because
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: he could only do like one push up, Like he
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: literally could barely do a push up. You know, it's
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: like one of the greatest swimmers ever. You know that
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: era is and you're like, oh, well, I can't you know,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: obviously if for some of the fifty three one hundred free,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: it's a different equation. Yeah, it's like, why can't he
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: do that? But he can do this?
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly, And it's you know, then there's so
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: many variables in swimming obviously, you know, but also you
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: know we probably people they can't swim appreciate that, you
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: know how important feeling for the water is and working
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: with this medium that is that we have to actually
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: work with rather than you know, push through it at
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: work against it. So yeah, but you know, having you know,
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: seeing a calib dressful for example, you know, he's the
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: physique is slightly you know now that the suits don't exist.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: You know, I think the guys is a little bit
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: lean up. They're still super powerful, but they're not as
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: not as bulky as what they were probably ten years.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of tall guys though. Yeah, it seems
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: like the guys are are bigger in general. Maybe not
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: his bulk here, but I mean I remember watching the
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: fifty three final rio, you know, cheering for for Tony Yeah,
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: and I was like, you looked tiny compared to all
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: those other guys. He's a tall guy, you know.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: I was like, man, yeah, a long with Yeah, it's
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: you know, and it is. It does sort of a
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: area I remember, you know, just before my ear, you know,
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Gustavo Borges, Alex Popom, Gary Hall. You know Gary Hill
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: is the shortest at six six, right.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy man. Well what's interesting about your career
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: is it's easy to go, oh, twenty one world records,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: like all these Olympic medals, you know, incredibly storied swimming career.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: But you know, it wasn't it wasn't all roses, man,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Like you had. You had a lot of misses, you know,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: along the way, and like a lot of obstacles and
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: hurdles that you struggle to overcome. I mean, despite like
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: these relay goals, you still struggle to like you know,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: metal in the individual that I mean you set the
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: world record for by one nd free relay. But like
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: you didn't make finals in the individual event, Like how
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: did you, like mentally, you know, approach trying to you know,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: deal with that kind of thing. And why do you
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: think you struggled in the individual events when the relays
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: like you know went so well.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was definitely to this day, all my all,
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: my relay splits are definitely my you know, my best splits.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: And I think psychologically I was sort of you know,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: I definitely put pressure on myself to perform and relaze,
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: but I don't know if it almost like I felt
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: like having the camaraderie of the team it almost deflects
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: some of that. And you know, I think, you know,
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: I was one day, As I said, I had a
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: very sort of simple approach to my assuming. I used
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: to pretty much have one strategy and and I used
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: to tense up a little bit, and you know, I
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: never progressed too much from heats to finals, and you know,
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: and yeah, I think so you know, as soon as
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: you tense up a little bit and sprint, it's you know,
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: it costs you. So you know, I was able to
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: win a few individual sort of big meats, but the one,
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: you know, obviously even leading you know, the hundred fly
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: with about ten meters ago and being touched out for silver,
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: and then same with a hundred free in Sydney's it
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: just sort of, yeah, it was sort of I could
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: see that there was you know, there was some bad
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: muscle memory that was coming in creeping in in some
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: of those races. So I think ninety eight was a
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: success because I hadn't created those some of those bad
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: sort of patterns.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: And how much does you know the external pressure play
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: in I mean it had to be so heightened in Sydney.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was definitely heightened. And because the hundred fly
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: was towards the end of the program, was day six
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: and I hadn't won an individual and I was sort
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: of you know, and I had a pretty bad heat
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: and so you know, the pressure was even great. Yeah,
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: i'th an incredible sort of eighty five to ninety minutes,
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: but unfortunately they don't hand out the metals then, so yeah,
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: but look, to be honest, you know, I've had some
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: amazing races where I have handled the pressure. So it
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: did it. It was yeah, because of my you know,
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: being able to stimulate myself so quickly behind the blocks,
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: and sometimes I would overstimulate and and and go over
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: the go over the edge sort of. But yeah, so
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: if I look at it, you know, my downfall sometimes
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: having that ability to progress in terms of time from
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: heat to finals.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: What is your like sort of mindset approach to to
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: you know, gearing up for a race, Like do you
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: have a ritual or how do you like you do visualization?
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: Like what was your practice?
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Look, I was very I used to try and warm
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: up as close as possible to the event, so pretty
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: much I would get out of there and there was
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: I was very I was very routine driven. So pretty
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: much from the moment I walked through the door, I
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: had the set routine. It was very dynamic and active
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: mom so dry land and getting in the pool and
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: pretty much was pretty it was pretty intense. It wasn't
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: very long, but I would normally you know, swim a
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: lot at pace and and pretty much from that point
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: going suit up and minimize anytime where I could sort
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: of you know, get distracted or but yeah, so for me,
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: the approach was really just to not to overthink. That's
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: why I tried to if I had a if I
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: had a spare hour and a half, I would probably
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: assum that race over about a hundred times in my
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: head where I try to have the routine just kept
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: me moving through and getting to the blocks without without
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: overthinking it and you know, playing the race in my
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: head and show me the downfall.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: I got you?
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Are you motivated? Are you somebody who's motivated internally or externally?
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: Are you thinking about how to have your best performance?
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: Or are you thinking about how to beat the other guy?
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Look, I think most of the time is how to
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: get my best performance. It's almost how to put it.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: I knew how to get it, how to put that
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: performance together could because I've done it so many times.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: It's almost just hitting a certain number of cues that
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: I had in my race. So, you know, my my
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: breakout and my underwater kick was obviously one of my
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: strong points. My breath control on that first thirty meters,
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: approaching the wall correctly then you know. So I had
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: a number of cues that I try to hit and
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: I used to focus on those and when I was
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: distracted and when I wasn't hitting those, then I'd start
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: thinking about the other guy. I look over my shoulder,
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: and that's that's times where either I go, you know,
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: swam over the top of or whatever. So I think
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: it's like, like with anything, the clearer my head was
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: before the race, is the better the outcome or.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it's interesting and swimming because it's you and
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: the clock and you're in your lane and you have
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: a choice whether to look over to the next guy
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: and see what he's doing or not. Yeah, and ultimately
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: it just comes down to you putting in your best effort.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: And yet at the same time it is a competition.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Some people feed off of that. They want it, you know.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: And when you were some butterfly, like you're breathing to
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: the side, right, you're just like a Mel Stewart there,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: you're like checking the other guy out. So yeah, yeah,
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: he was the first guy to do that. So I mean,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: was that a conscious thing like I want to be
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: watching what the other guys are doing or.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: No, definitely not. In efficiency and efficiency and trying to
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: keep it was then pankerates Off did it after male Stewart,
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: and then you know, obviously I am you know, adopted
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: it as well. It's more just keeping the body nice
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: and flat, you know. Michael Phelps and the and crocerd
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: that kind of Ian was a bit higher. But markl
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: just you know, keeps a really low body position, you know,
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: with a flat breath, and I was able to do that,
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: but turning my head slightly become became a little you know,
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: became habitual after a while.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: So to So around two thousand and one, you start
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: having these injuries, right and it kind of sets you back.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: So you're like, I couldn't figure out, like, did you
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: you still started? You were swimming, You swam through two
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: thous I was seven. Yeah, you kind of struggled, right, Yeah, absolutely, problem, Yeah, absolutely.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: It's it's funny that we're sitting here right now because
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: that injury that actually ultimately you know, cost you know,
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: my career and I cost my career, but I retired
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: because of it. Well, I broke my ankle with just
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: before the ficker Oka World Championships, so we were playing
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: some basketball to warm up before before some never played basketball,
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: I know, and you know that that sort of followed,
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: you know, that led up to have causing some issues
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: with my lower back and I had back operation at
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: the age of twenty five the following year. And then
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: you know that led to you know, being off balanced,
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: and that created some more pressure on my shoulder, and
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: then you know, three shoulder operations later. I qualified for
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Athens in the relay squads and swam all those but
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: you know, I never had that sort of individual success
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: that I had prior to two thousand and two thousand
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: and one. Yeah, there was, yeah, it was. It was
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: probably you know mentally, that was a really tough time
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: had to be. Yeah, I mean.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Because you were I mean, it wasn't how old were
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: you at that, like two thousand and six, two thousand
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: and five.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, two thousand and six or twenty eight, you know, you're.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Still in the game, like I could still be, you know,
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: crushing it at a high level. So I would imagine
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: that was frustrated. So you retire, but then you you
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: you then you try to make this comeback from London, right,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: like why would you do? Why? What inspired that?
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: Look? For me? Fitness and exercise and swimming is still
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: a big passion of mine. I still love to do it,
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: and I swim more in the open water these days.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: But you know, I always feel better after it, and
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: I was started actually did a few crazy things that
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: did a couple of adventure races down in Tasmania, which
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: is you know, probably the coldest, the rugged place in Australia.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: Was a week long sort of adventure racing and I
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: did a bunch of runs and swims and got on
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: the bike. Even I was a lot skinny, and I
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: was still in reasonable shape. And you know, I started
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: having a family. I had two kids at the time,
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: started my own business, and I thought, look good. It
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: was a couple of things. One I wanted to prove
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: to myself that I could still I was still in
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: good shape. I wanted to see how fast I could
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: swim with all these different new variables in my life.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: But then I also wanted to kind of show my kids,
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: you know, I said, an example of being able to
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: achieve a pretty high standard in my sport. And and
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: it you know, it was a bit of a dare
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: initially and a kind of attend to this eighteen month campaign.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: And you know, ironically I ended up swimming the same
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: time as I did at the trials, at what I
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: did on my last meet when I retired, So I managed,
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: you know, seven years later I maintained it, or five
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: years later get back to similar levels. So unfortunately we
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: had the birth of you know, James James Magnusims came
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: came through, and Cameron McAvoy and those guys started going,
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: you know, in the low forty sevens, which you know
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: I was, I was nowhere near that big pace.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: But it takes balls to give it a gill like that.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my yeah, we're expecting a third baby at the time.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: It's probably easier to be in the swimming pool than
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: to change snapees and to manage training.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Is very simple, monk like existence.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: Everything is like organized for you, you know, absolutely, and
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: you know that, you know that's and that was the
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: thing that I realized, you know, I had started and
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: on your business, you know, had this growing family, all
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: these variables, still swimming and you know, people say, how
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: did you manage to swim so much? And how did
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: you stay focused? I'm like, I wish all I had
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: to do now was just.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be easy. It's like a lot easier
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: than well. One of the things I think is really
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: interesting about your story and perhaps unique, is you know
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: that between you and I and Thorpe and Grant Hackett,
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: I mean you guys, I mean you guys were super
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: superstars in the week of Sydney, like you know, American audiences,
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't think can really fathom, like I
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: said earlier, like the extent to which you were just
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: thrust into the media in like a massive way, and
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: that's a very difficult thing to figure your way through,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: you know, and you seem to be somebody who who
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: figured that out, like and I think it it seems
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: as somebody who doesn't know these individuals and just just
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: kind of looking at it as an outsider looking in
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: from ten thousand feet.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: That's something that that I think really, you know, probably
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: took its toll on Grant and on Ian, like they've
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: had their sort of very public, you know, kind of
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: struggles with trying to figure out, you know, who they
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: want to be. And you know, you go from this
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: place where, like you said, everything's taken care of for you,
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: you know exactly what you're doing, and then suddenly it's
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: like a free for all and a free fall, like okay,
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: what do I do with this now?
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely been a very It's not just swimming,
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: I think, and it happens here in the night. I
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: think with our identity as athletes are so strong and
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: you know, people reinforce that and every opportunity they have.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: And then probably for guys like Ian and Grant and
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: you know, they reached their success in one final freestyle
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: World Championship when he was fifteen. Like my oldest daughter's twelve.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: I can't imagine her going to World champion, so, you know,
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: and he became you know, like in obviously there was so.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: Many eyes on a short in Australia.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and you know, and and I think yeah,
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: and then Ian definitely struggle with that. There was a
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: lot of pressure on him and the level of expectations.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: So I think it's just realizing that identity, it's that
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: swimming identity, even though it will live on forever, it's
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: only temporary. And having sometimes the fear of that transition
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: into life after sport is you know, it can be
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: can be daunting and or even finding your place in
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: life and what you actually because you're so good at swimming,
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: what's going to replace that void and what's going to do?
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: And it's going to help you figure that out? I mean,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: you know, when everything is being taken care of for you,
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: you know, it's like, well what do I do now?
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Like your whole life is premised on Okay, I'm going
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: to be on this podium at the Olympics in Sydney,
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: but there's no thought that goes into what happens the
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: day after that.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's sort of a guy. I've been
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: fortunate enough to work with a group called the Chosen Experience,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: and then we sort of talk about purpose and intention
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: and and you know, looking after all the different areas
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: of wellness if it's spiritual and emotional and environmental, social,
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: So I sort of think I think when you you know,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: when you're actually in that swimming bubble and the sport
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: bubble you're kind of taking care of and when you
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: come out of it, there's a lot of areas of
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: that wellness that fall off, especially social socially, you know,
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: you're swimming, fraternity is your family that no longer exists,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: you know, you've you know, spiritually, swimming is very meta.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you're probably be a great for me. It's
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: the most meditative exercise that I can do, you know,
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: except from and from a fitness point of view. And
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: you know you're talking about nutrition and everything was gone
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: all in place, so you have to start until you
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: find that those sort of dimensions how you're going to
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: be able to fill them, and it takes time, and
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: some people do better than others.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that, And I've mentioned this in the past,
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: that that you know, sports organizations, whether it's swimming or
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: the NFL or the NBA or the n C two
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: A and whatever specific discipline you know within that needs
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: to have organizations or like governing bodies that are charged
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: with helping athletes make the transition into civilian life. I
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: mean it's the same with like a soldier coming back
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: from a deployment, like yeah, there's a sense of confusion,
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: you know, it's like, well, this was my career now
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: like that, snap your fingers, it's done and you're just
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: a normal person. And that can be very destabilizing for
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: a lot of people. And I think the higher you've
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: you you know, the higher your achievement, the more the
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: more kind of challenging that transition can be. I mean,
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: obviously you have opportunities and cool stuff comes your way,
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: but trying to figure out like, well who am I? Like,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: am I I'm not the swimmer anymore?
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Exactly? Wait, who, Like what's the new passion? Whether
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: I put this energy that I had for this drive.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: You know, how do you suddenly replace replace this drive
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: that you had? And you know, you see most people
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: swimming on, you know, like there aren't too many swimmers
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: that actually never you don't don't swim on because it
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: is such play such a big role, you know, probably
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: more symbolically than anything, but it is. Yeah, it is
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: quite tricky and I think it's better through the NC
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: to a system because of the education that that provides
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: them with you know, the athletes. But in Australia, I
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: think we've struggled with you know, certainly, you know, the
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: athletes aren't supported financially from from the sports, so they
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: need to find careers and then that becomes you know,
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: it becomes quite daunting on them. Yeah yeah, yeah.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: How is Grant doing? Are you in touch with that?
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah? He spent a favorite of time with Michael Phelps
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: recently and he's been he's back, he's living in Melbourne,
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: he's working in corporate finance again. So again for him,
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: the physical exercises plays a big role. So now even
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: though he came back, he missed London as well, but
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: he's still back exercising and you know, he's got a
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: good routine, and so yeah, I think he's back on track.
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: So you knew that, you did you always know that
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: you wanted to be an entrepreneur When you were swimming,
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: were you hatching your plan for how you're going to
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: start a business.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: But I certainly no, Like you know, I had obviously
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: had a good sort of example with my dad being
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: and he was export and import and he sort of
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: did a lot of trades and things like that, so
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: I sort of had I watched him do his thing.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: But I didn't have a tertiary education. Most of the
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: you know, most of the guys, you know, I went
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: to UNI or whatever. I sort of fell out after
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: them for my first year. So but I, you know,
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: I had to realize I want I've been exposed to
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: branding and marketing. I've been a product for many companies
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: in the past, so I had a little bit of
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: insight into what it takes to promote and and and
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: and sell something. So yeah, the opportunity came about when
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: there's two companies within a couple of months that approached
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: me to endorse the skin care product. So I thought
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: there must be something in that I was just so
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: I did a bit more research and that the skin
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: care market in Australia was definitely growing, especially for man
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: and yeah, so I sort of, you know, I did
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: a four business plan on a bit of paper and
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: spoke to a few different people and then putting the punt,
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: but took the plunge into into becoming a I wouldn't
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: call myself an entrepreneur, but I guess, yeah, I think
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: you are.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: Why not, Why wouldn't you?
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So, look at it was a you know, it
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: was a it was incident all sort of the way
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: I fell into it. You know, being a Somino, you
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: have to wash, watch yourself from the from the chlorine,
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: and you protect yourself from the from all the hamful
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: u V A and u V B race. So I said,
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: have had a little bit of insight from my history
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: and I had to apply that into into life after sport.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we just walked around with super dry
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: skinning and green hair exactly.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: And then then I made that product chlorine.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, lick your hands, the whole room smells like chloria.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah exactly.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: So then so you start this company milk, which I like,
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know why, but like I didn't even think
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: about it. Until like yesterday, I was like, oh, that's
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: clim backwards. Yeah, that's that's so obvious, right, It's a
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: great name a line. It's cool.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So we you know, like we've initially we just
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: had skincare products for men, and as you said, you know,
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: guys in generally in Australia in the US, there's still
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: you know, they still need a bit of prodding when
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: it to you know, self maintenance and looking after their skin.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: So I wanted to create products that they were easy
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: to use, multifunctional, affordable, but guys were still cool, like
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: they still were pretty would be proud about having them
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: on the base in the bathroom. So I created a
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: really simple sort of range. But it wasn't smooth sailing,
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: that's for sure. I made a few a few costly
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: errors and you know, and you know, obviously I think
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: that was probably it was more I think business, the
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: business world, there's been much more challenging and challenging than swimming.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: You know why. There is a lot of things that
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: are out of when in you know, like even when
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: when we're talking about you can control pretty much everything exactly,
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: and even even then you're trying you think you can
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: but but you know, in business, you're dealing with so
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: many different variables from you know, retailers to manufacturers to
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: partners at stakeholders except whatever it might be, it's so
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: vast and and and then people are just actually liaising
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: with and dealing with people on a daily basis, and
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: it becomes that becomes a skill, you know, how you
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: manage those situations.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: What did you learn from your swimming experience that does
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: translate into being successful in business?
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say there's probably like four or five key
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: sort of learnings that I take from it. The first
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: probably that sense of sense of team. So I you know,
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: our business is very much a horizontal business. We don't
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: have not very hierarchical at all. So you know, making
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: sure that culture within your business is right. And it
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: doesn't have to be a business. It could be any
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: could be a club or organization. So I think it's
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: you know, people that enjoy coming to work or having
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: things in common, or having even maybe things in common,
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: but common values. So so that was for me, it
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: was really important. I think that that was what made
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: the Asim team so great. It was almost like this
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: unwritten grade that we had. We had no idea what
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: there was, but the camaraderie, yeah, exactly. It's innovation too.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: I think obviously something that as you touched on with
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: my stroke and the suits, and I think always you know,
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: like if you know, we came out with some great
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: products that were selling it, okay, but you can't just
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: rest on your laurel, so you have to innovate constantly.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: I think knowledge as well. I was. I think when
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: I was suming, I think I had about twelve of
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: probably double thick books like this. I would log every
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: stroke every session. Now well, so all the sessions I
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: would I wouldn't even need to write, you know, write
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: it down and pull that. I'd remember pretty much everything
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: that we did. And I would. I've got about yeah,
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: as I said, a dozen of those books. So I
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: think you gain knowledge about yourself to then make better
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: decisions with training, et cetera. So in business too, I
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: think it's really important to know your business and know
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: your numbers, so then we can make better decisions if
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: we're investing money in certain areas and marketing et cetera.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: So and then now we can you know now, I
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: guess and swimming people can get information about other summer's
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: a lot easier than what we could. But yeah, so,
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: I mean the business will really try and tap into,
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: you know, a data about your competition, knowing knowing your
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: competitions when important as well. I'm not sure what else.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: Well I would think I would I would think and
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: I'm probably projecting, but you know, the mindset that you
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: have to have to be competitive, you know, at the
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: level that you were in swimming takes a very sort
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: of singular you know, focus and ability to kind of
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: hone in on a goal and like work your way
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: towards that, right, And so obviously business is a little
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: bit different because you have all these people and personalities
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: and all of that. It's not just you, right, And
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: as a swimmer, you can be kind of a control
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: freak like this is what I'm doing and you know
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. Yeah, so there has to
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: be some aspects of that that translate into your like okay,
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: like to be just to be determined like this is
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: what we're moving towards, you know, but then also having
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: to let go of certain things that we're important in
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: swimming to let other people in and delegates.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's yeah, it's almost like you. You know,
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: I was being empowered to do what I was when
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: I was able to do in the pool, whereas I
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: think in business it's almost me empowering other people to
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: the coach, Yeah a little bit. So that's and look,
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: as I said, I've had some great coaches in my career,
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: so I've been able to full that all back on
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: that as well. But I think and then just the
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: other thing, I just remember it it's just the relentless
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: nature of running your own business. It's very similar to
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: swimming and sport, where you definitely have bad sessions, bad swings,
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: but just the ability of coming back, coming back the
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: next day, no matter how bad it is, and you know,
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: you may you may show up in not the best mood,
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: but you still show up.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, But so that was yeah, so probably those are
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: my key learnings.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: But and so now, how are you got your shipping
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: in countries all over the world? Right?
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: Like are you us? Yeah? So we're in the we're
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: on the in on Amazon in the US, but we're
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: we're sort of our focus is sort of Australian. The
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: proximity to Australia, so all the Asian countries from China
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: to Korea to Japan and Hong Kong and Singapore, so
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: really sort of our products then then itself really well through,
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: especially the baby range, which is all natural and sort
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: of really sort of simple and and it seems to
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: be going really well into into that region. So but
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, our culturally with so similar in
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: the lifestyle between so as in Melbourne, Sydney, etcetera.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: I can see it doing well here and I like,
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: like it's a you know, it's it's clean, and it's
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: it's like minimal in its design, like it's just very
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: like simple and kind of a beautiful, elegant way. Yeah,
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: I think I haven't tried the products yet, but just
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: based on reading up on it. So that's cool. So
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: that's your main thing, right, I know you do these
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: retreats too.
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: Experience.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a chosen experience. It's it's actually good because
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: it helps me to you know, I sort of facilitate
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: some of them. I do some of the goal setting
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: workshops and some water skills and swimming, et cetera. But
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: it also helps me to recalibrate every now and again
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: because you know, where sort of gain I know what
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: the tools are for me to be the most effective person.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: But sometimes you know in life, you know, you get
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: when you get busy, or you know, there's things that
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: don't always go your way. So yeah, so Chosen has
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: been a great way to meet amazing people, meet successful
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: people from different walks of life. But then you know,
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: I do things that are really good fears of spiritually, mentally,
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: physically as well. So I enjoy that. I still, you know,
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: enjoy talking talking to the team, working with the same
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: team I work with them in the lead up to Rio,
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: which was unfortunately it wasn't a great games for us.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: But you know, it's great to see these, you know,
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: the youngsters that are I wonder if I was that
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: mature when people looking at me back then, but almost
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: the way they hold themselves and with all these extra distractions,
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: I think that they seem more professional than what we
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: were back there.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like they come out of the womb now, like
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: media trained, because everybody is a public personality now. Yeah,
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: it's unbelievable the awareness that young people have around that
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: is interesting, but it's also like it's so distracting. You know,
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: it's so easy to fall into a you know, social
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: media hole rather than do the hard thing that requires
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: you to turn the phone off.
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, yeah, absolutely no, So look I think that. Yeah,
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: so I still enjoy working with those guys. But it
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: is tricky actually because I I think I heard you
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: say the other day. I still enjoy you know, I
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: enjoy being on Instagram every night seeing what our people
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: are doing, and you know, sharing my stories especially you know,
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: if it's something cool. So but I do you know,
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: when I have a digital TX had Chosen or whatever
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: it might be, I do appreciate the other side as well. Yeah.
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: I was looking at the website for Chosen and there's
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of trips, man. You know, do you go
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: to all of them happening all the time?
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there is. There is a bunch, there's you know,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: there's a bunch in Bali. Iceland is a very amazing location.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: I just came from Guatemala. I was there last week
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: and I was there as a guest, so that was
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: it was nice to take it, take a week off
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: for myself and to recharge a little bit at bedtime. Yeah,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: in New Zealand, so those are the four iconic locations. Cool. Yeah,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: they also tend to have volcanoes and you know, I
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: don't know what else, but there always seems to be
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: in a very very exotic, kind of pretty rugged environment.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: I want to go to Iceland so bad.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to get you there.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: When you look back on your your swimming career, you know,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: what do you like? What do you think you were
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: able to do that others couldn't? Or like what can
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: you know? What do you attribute your success to beyond
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: just sort of you know, the training and whatever god
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: given talent you have. Like do you I know you
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: mentioned being an innovator, but do you think there are
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: certain things that you were keyed in on that others
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: weren't that allowed you to get that extra advantage.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: To Yeah, I think definitely my the innovation in my
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: stroke definitely helped me a lot because I think if
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: I hadn't had I found that that destructed that really
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: worked well for me. I think I'm not sure where
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: I would have been. I think I was. I think
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: that was the key. But I think almost that I
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: had a really really sort of strong drive for my
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: sport from a very early age. And I think that
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: I think growing up Eastern European sort of background, and
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: it almost like people ask me, where did you have
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: it from us, and I don't know it just I
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: just had, you know, something that this purpose that I
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: wanted to swim, you know, so I think that was
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: definitely an advantage. And I think it when it did
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: come off, my mindset was really you know, I was
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: able to you know, it was pretty strong mentally when
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: I you know, most most of the time. There was
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: obviously a few were I wasn't. But so I think
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: even you know, my mindset put together with my purpose
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: and and I guess you know, you know, with a
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: new strike, etcetera. I think those three things.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: Did you ever think, I mean, you're you're a Polish
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: citizen right on from Poland.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I probably could have, Yeah, I know, but I
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: would wouldn't feel right, you know, especially after so much
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: time and money invested by this.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: But what about when the comeback up to London though.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: You was doing so well, now there's there's a bunch
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: of guys that are in one hundred three and one
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: hundred flies. The probably wouldn't have been that easy either.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: When you look at what Michael Phelps was able to
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: achieve and the impact that he's had on the sport, Like,
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: how do you you know conceptualize that, like, what does.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: That mean to you? Look, I was lucky enough to
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: be in Rio and see his twentieth gold and also,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: you know, see all his swims and raced him a
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: bunch of times as well, So you know, I've realized
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: how hard it is to come back and no thing
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: just to come back, but to come back and dominate,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: especially and he's been you know, and I guess in
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: the dumps a little bit when it came to you know,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: he fell out. You know a lot of people fell
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: out of love with him, and he was able to
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: he just you know, I think, you know, I could
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: see how how important swimming is to him as a person,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: and you know, he did definitely he had that. He
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: had the drive that was probably ten times greater than
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: mine as well. But I like to see that. I
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: like the story because it did sort of you know,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: he did the career, did take it down with turn,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: but he was able to bounce back, which was was
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: an amazing feat for me. But just his his you know,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: his ability just to be able to come back from
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: race after race. I did it once once and once
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: in the blue mood.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: The longevity is unbelievable and I think it was it's
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: only natural that something's going to break along the way,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: Like you can't maintain that for twenty years, you know,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: and so you know, shocker, like you know that that
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: there are going to be periods of time where he
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: doesn't want to go to the pool. You know, that
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: has to be the case in order for him to
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: be able to continue and perpetuate. And I think it's
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: super brave how he's kind of come out and spoken
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: publicly about the mental health issues, and I hope that
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: he does more of that because I think it's so
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: powerful and could be transformative for other people. And it's
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: amazing how you know, it could have gone left, you know,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: he could have it could have gone sideways for him,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: even with all the performances, just how he was acquitting
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: himself in the public eye, and then for him to
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: like pull it together and transcend that and to become this,
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: you know, this, this this person that he is now,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: I think it's quite remarkable.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's quite the same in being I think he's
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: expecting his sick and about soon, and you know, he's
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: a he's a you know, he's found. He's still seems
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: pretty fit. I think, I know, he's obviously something still, well,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: look he left, you know, he left Rio. I just
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: I don't think, well, I don't think there's any more
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: room on his chest as there, like I saw those medals.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: He's going to chop over exactly. But you know, he
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: was him and both the end, you know, for me,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: he actually watched him soon. I saw one session actually
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: which I was Grand Hacket, Ian Thorpe and Michael Phelps
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: training together on the Gold Coast ones and it was
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: it was so amazing. They had all the guys that
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: are actually in the pool swimming with them. We just
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: got out and watched them because to have the you know,
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: probably the for in the three of the greatest freestylers
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: and and or swimmers of all time to have going
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: ahead to head, it just became like a show. So
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: it was it was it was a great pleasure to
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: watch him swim and swim in the same era. But
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: just you know, it's mental toughness. It's probably think the
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: thing that stands for me, especially in the last one,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: was declarying himself the champion, and that was you don't
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: like that guy needed.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: Media trading, because that's the last thing that you say
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: to Michael unless you want to lose, you know, like,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know what came over that guy.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: If anything, you always put.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: That's the one thing that gets Michael, like, you know,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: out of bed, the.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: Crazy. Yeah.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: And and I think, you know, we'll be seeing the
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: impact of him for for decades to come, like the
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: inspiring young kids in the next generation of swimmers coming up.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: I mean it's it's it's going to be cool to
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: see kind of what he does next.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, he seems to like golf.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: I know, I know, I don't know, we'll see what's
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: going to happen. Let's talk about like what fitness looks
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: like for you now, Like what's your what's your typical routine.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're still super fit.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I sort of. I do probably do two or
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: three kind of structured modified Crossford like sessions, so pretty
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: intense sort of circuits. And then I probably do two
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: swims a week. They're pretty pretty cruisy between two thousand
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: and three thousand meters and just too and it's actually
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: that's my real moural solo time. I really enjoy that.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: And then and then that other incidental exercise, you know,
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: surfing and playing with the kids and that sort of stuff.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: So I probably don't get more than then five structured
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: sort of sessions in the week. But that seems to be,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: you know, with work and three kids, et cetera, that's
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: kind of manageable at the moment, right And.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you've been able to keep it together.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: Dude.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: You look you look like you're ready to go right now.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: If you've got up on the blocks right now, what
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: would you throw it down on one hundred three?
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I think I would probably go close
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: to fifty two fifty three per I'm glad you can. No,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: that's only one off, you know, I've probably blown my
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: shoulder or something like that.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny how like all these devices now are
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: on the market where people can wear, you know, earbuds
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: during swimming and listen to stuff. That's the last thing
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: I want to do.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and I even try that for a while,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: but now it's even Yeah, just that even the sound
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: of the water just rushing past years and all that.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: You know, I can almost hear you know, you can
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: definitely hear breath, you can hear a heart. So for me,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: like I appreciate swimming for different reasons now completely. You know,
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: I swim with my kids and you know, it's it's
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: a skill that I'm so glad that I've got. So
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: it's much safer in the pool than I am online,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: that's for sure.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, So so where do you see this
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: all going? Just continuing to grow milk? Yeah, what's next
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: for you?
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah? For me, I think you know where the business
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: has been going to need ten years. So for us,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: you know, I think it's still has some great potential
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: and looking at you know, different partners along the way
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: to trying to get it to a global brand, I
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: think we're still you know, a small fish. So yeah,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: you know, putting putting that together. But still I think
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: for me, you know, spending time with my kids and
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: seeing there kind of I've got the six nine and
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: the twelve year old, So I used to travel a
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: lot between Melbourne and Balley in sort of for me,
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: it's actually finding a little bit more, you know, being
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: more grounded. It was sort of yeah, pretty pretty hard
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: to juggle everything. I went through a divorce a couple
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: of years ago as well, and that sort of took
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: a bit of a toll on me physically and mentally.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: And just trying to be everywhere for everybody. So I
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: think it's been a pretty interesting time just to prioritize health, kids,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: you know, my partner.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: There's balance, all that stuff.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: Man. Absolutely, it's like, you.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: Know, and then coming from swimming where it's just like
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: I can train five hours a day and you know, eat,
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: nap and all of that, and then yeah, like there's business,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: there's kids, there's you know, weever like trying to apportion
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: your energy across all of those things and being somebody
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: who is driven, who wants to excel in all of
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: those areas. Like it's it's a hard equation to say.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, and it's sort of for me as well.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: I'm probably I'm not. I wasn't great at saying no
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: in the past, and then probably I don't. I think
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: it's sure, I had a bet, I'm not. I don't
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: really like letting people down in ters of the thing.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: So well, when people are asking you to do stuff,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: though it's probably cool stuff too that you want to.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: Do, sometimes it's you know, like it's you know, and look,
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: I've been very fortunate because people have done me a
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: lot of favors. So I sort of feel like I
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: threw pay them. But yeah, so it's definitely I think,
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm at a phase in my life. I'm
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: just you know, much better prioritizing.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: Well, thanks for saying yes to this.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: Thanks for you agree for yourself to agree to see me.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: When you when you look back on your career, are
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: there things you wish you had done differently, or any
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: regrets that you have or do you feel like, you
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: know what, I laid it all out there.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: Man, Yeah, I definitely look I definitely in terms of
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: my approach and my training, I definitely didn't leave a
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: stone unturned in the pool and in the training pool.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: I think probably you know, overcoming some of those I
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: wouldn't say, you know, like we were talking about the
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: slightly mental sort of toughness a right, some of those
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: big individual events. But I wouldn't say it's regrets. It's
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: probably being able to work on that a little bit better,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: identifying that early in my career. But you know, I
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: think I was I certainly, you know, I certainly did
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: the work I was. I got so much out of
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: the sport's great, great friends, and it gave me an
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: opportunity to, you know, to move forward in life. As well.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: So I'm pretty pretty pretty happy if.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: You were, if you were going to coach young up
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: and coming Olympian swimmers, what would you focus on or
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: where do you think like the white spaces, like what
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: do you think like when you see these kids coming
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: up or you see what coaches are doing, do you
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: see like, oh, why why are they doing that? Why
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: should they should be doing this? Or do you look
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: at it differently or.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I think the guys are pretty on
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: the money, pretty revolutionary already at the moment. Obviously they
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: keep improving. It's a really good, good question, which I
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: don't know. I think they're you know, I think what
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: I've liked, and there's some of the zy guys are
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: still there's still being kids, you know, a lot of
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: them when I was growing up and I loved the sport.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: And I remember, you know, coming back from one of
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: the sum sessions in Perth and I saw you know,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: Hackey and Thorpy and the guys on the PlayStation. He's
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: just being there're still fifteen seventeen, and you know, I
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: think probably if anything, it sometimes becomes too serious and
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: you know, so yeah, I think having it, yeah, just
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: having with that, and I think, you know, if it
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: gets too serious too quickly, can you know, it can
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: burn out. But in terms of training methods, I think
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: they're you know, on the money, they're certainly better than
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: what I was doing, So I can't tell them what,
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: you know, what to do anymore.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: I wonder when who the next huge star is going
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: to be. I mean the shadow that that you know,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: Phelps leaves is so massive, like who could ever possibly
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: you know, eclipse that see some guys like Lacloe coming
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: out have the potential to make it.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: I think Caleb obviously address as.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: Right, That's what I meant to say. Yeah, he just
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: did was just like short course worlds or something like that.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: He's like breaking world records and breastroke.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think, you know, I think we found
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: him to be honest, like and he's doing in events
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: like one hundred three hundred fly Medley. He's you know,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: so versatile. You know, it'll be interesting to see how
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: if you can repeat that in in Tokyo. I think
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: he won five gold and the World Champs. So yeah,
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: so's he's the next one to watch for sure.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty exciting.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: Man. So if.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: If a swimmer or any athlete for that matter. Young
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: person who's trying to excel in their sport is listening
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: to this and and maybe they don't have the greatest coach,
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: they don't have you know, the Australian Institute of Sport
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: in their disposal, but they're trying to figure out on
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: their own, through podcasts and the internet or whatever, like,
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: how to be the best athlete they possibly can. Like,
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: what can you convey to that person?
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, you know, I think obviously, I think we
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: all understand that in sport there's only small percentages of
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: athletes that win that that ultimate gold or the championship
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: or the world record, et cetera. I think there's so
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: much more that you get out of the sport that
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: you find learn about yourself as well. So I would encourage.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, my kids aren't great at any sport, impety clear,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: but they still do it. They still you know, I
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: think the routine is really important. Destructure is important, and
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: I think the ability, I think it prepares you that
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: that toughness, that being uh, you know, being able to
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: bounce back in life in general. It's it's it's what
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: it's all about, you know. I think it's well, you know,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: there's certainly adversity is around the corner, and that's how
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: we manage that. And I think for me, sport was
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: a great great or vehicle to learn my sort of
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: prepare myself for life lessons in the future. So yeah,
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, not just physical physical development. So
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I would say definitely have a crack,
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: which is a bit of an I was just saying,
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: but you know, just being able to just just perseverance,
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: being a persevered day to day you know, that's Kip
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: chipping away.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: I think for a young person, it's got to be
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: hard in our social media fuel culture because you go
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: on Instagram and everything looks easy and sexy and romantic,
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: and it's like it ain't to be great at anything.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: Is the most unsexy thing, Yeah, because you got to
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: show up every single day and like slog through the
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: mud and it sucks, you know, and you feel like
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: shit and that doesn't translate well, you know on Instagram. Yeah,
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: but that's truth, you know what I mean, Like, it's
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: fucking hard, you know, and it's about consistently showing up
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: for whatever you care about.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's finding that, you know. I mean, these
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: words keep coming up, but obviously finding the drive or
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: whatever that purpose is. And you know so, and it's
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: funny because sometimes in my squad, I've had a couple
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: of people, even in my club squad, the people that
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: are most driven and most passionate necessarily weren't the best
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: swimmers in our group. You know, some of the best
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: ones probably had the most talent and things used to
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: fall into place for them, But the ones that tend
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: to we used to fight the most were the ones
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: that probably did have the most amount of talent wending.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I think I take that guy any day
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: over the super talented guy who doesn't show up for workout.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly, because that, you know, prepares you for
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: life after sport.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, were you one of those sprinter guys that
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: like slagged off like it was always a sprinters like
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: workout again?
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, unfortunately not. I think, you know, I was actually
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: when it came to training, it was one thing that
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: I really enjoyed and I was, you know, I was
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: pretty very punctual. I used to get more. We used
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: to cheat a little bit when sessions when that coach
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: was you know, put on some crazy sets and then
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: you know, just maybe cut the warm up down a
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: little bit.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: What was the hardest set you ever did?
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I It was mainly just lactic
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: sort of tolerance stuff. So you can really sort of
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: as simple as doing you know, three max one hundreds on,
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: you can do it really simply on ten minutes and
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: then just that well was out. But you know doing
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: you know, we did six as well, six fifties max
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: on two minutes as well, so but it's it's it's
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: just getting race ready. So you know, I didn't do
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: a great deal of high intensity, you know, short rest
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: training because of my events, but that lacktic tolerance was
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: work was probably the Yeah, all.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: Right, man, we got to wrap this up.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Thank you, Richard.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: Super awesome to talk to you. Yeah, thank you, very cool.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having What are.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: You What else you have going on here in La?
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: Actually, I'm here supporting my partner. Dere's a race. She's
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: got a fashion label, so she's got a bit of
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: a publicity event tonight, so it's called sw F Boutique,
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: So I'll be I'll be probably the Instagram husband tonight.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: So but just making my way back home from Guatemala.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: So I'm enjoying this, this crisp weather.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: You've got to know and are you going straight to Balie?
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: I go? I'll go. I'll go to Melbourne first and
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: then go back to Bali, so I'll be back in
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: by next week.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: We'll hook you up with my friends in Bali.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: Would be great.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: I'd love to meet you.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: So thanks for having me.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate it. If you're digging on Michael, the
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: best way to connect with him. Milkinco dot com is
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: your skincare line. You got like nutrition products and stuff
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: We've done anymore. We used to have find protein products,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: but we basically it's got the skin fitness range. So
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: we've got it at chloinsh which is great for smers.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: It's on screen a bunch of other products for active
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: people and it's a natural products for babies and some
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: more pampering products for women.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: So is the and the men's line is called it
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: is called.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then the other Well, it's funny you know
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: the blokes out there, they didn't kind of like like yourself,
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: didn't didn't get the idea that Milk and Co was
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: clean back. They didn't.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: They didn't they couldn't do that math.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: No, It's funny when I, you know, when I do
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: a couple of corporate kenotes and they and I tell
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: them the story that it. You know, I just look
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: in the mirror and I mean, obviously I knew my
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: surname was was milk backwards for many years. But yeah,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: it doesn't always jump out. So we did a bit
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: of study on our products and some guys thought it
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: was a little bit too feminine. Not quite much, guys, man,
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: it'll be tough and simple. I want to put this
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: on my face.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: Cool, and then you're out. Michael clem on Instagram and
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: Michael clean One Yeah, Michael clein one, Yeah cool.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: Any other Chosen Experiences coming on?
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So we we've got a bunch of Chosen Experiences
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: with coming up in Bali. So if you guys want
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: to check out Chosen Experiences dot com, there's all the
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: dates and locations. But yeah, come and do us. I've
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: got a swimming week coming up in July, so they
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: should be it should be good with a bit of
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: skill work, with a bit of surfing, a fair bit
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: of a little bit of gym work. But it's it's
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: a pretty fun week.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: That's awesome and it's Chosen Experiences dot Com. Yeah, people
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: to find out all right, man, well we'll close this
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: down by saying, uh my man, Damn. McPherson says, hello,
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: And I told you earlier, like Garrett weber Gale called
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: me yesterday out of the blue, who also, you know,
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: won a gold medal in the four by one hundred
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: free relay in a subsequent generation in an epic that
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: was an epic race as well, And I was like, oh,
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: I got I got clim coming over to the podcast tomorrow,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: I was like, do you know him? Like what should
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: I talk to him about. He's like, I don't really
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: know him. He probably doesn't remember me. But he said
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: that he was at a meet in two thousand and five.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know what meat it was. He told me,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: I can't.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: Remember Montreal World Championships, some.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: World Championships or World University. I don't know, something like that.
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: And he said that like he came up to you
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: to meet you because you were like a big hero
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: to him, and you ended up giving him like all
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: your ausie gear and he's like, I still have it.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: He's like, I'll never forget that. It was like so
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: he was like a big hero.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: Thanks.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: So he thinks, yeah, said.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: Say what's up, beautiful. It's nice. It's nice when you know,
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: and when you get that feedback after many years, it's
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: because you never know who that person might you know,
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: turn turn to, or what what effect that might have
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: on their on.
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: Their career, or then he ends up getting the you know,
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: winning that.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: Really it was an amazing race. Actually, Jason Lee's.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: Legal that is probably the relay race of all time.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: Phenomenal second second to us.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: Well we'll leave that open, all right. Great talking to you,
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: Thanks to
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: You, Thank you,