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Wilhelm Reich and Orgone, Part 1: Sexy Psychoanalysis · Ridiculous History

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
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Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always
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Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. Quick note before we get
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Speaker 1: this train rolling. Uh, we are doing a two part episode.
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Speaker 1: You're hearing this on a Thursday. Part two is on
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Speaker 1: a Tuesday. So this is our shout out to the weekend,
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Speaker 1: not the singer. You know what, No, the singer looking
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Speaker 1: him out for the weekend? What do you spell his
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Speaker 1: name that way? He leaves out like and E and
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Speaker 1: and and and what the week n n D week
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Speaker 1: e k n d R. He isn't in there side
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Speaker 1: too much of our ury for the vowels, you know
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Speaker 1: what I mean? They saved the time. Spelly the name
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Speaker 1: and pass the savings onto you. Uh. Speaking of saving
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Speaker 1: the show, shout out to our super producer, Mr Max Williams.
1:23
Speaker 1: They called me Ben No, we're working for the weekend.
1:27
Speaker 1: We yeah, it's but it's but it's Tuesday, so we
1:30
Speaker 1: got we gotta waits to go. Unfortunately, the weekend is okay.
1:34
Speaker 1: By the way, he always he sounds so sad in
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Speaker 1: his songs, and yet he's he's he's a chieved such
1:38
Speaker 1: success a meteoric rise. I hope he can just take
1:41
Speaker 1: a step back and enjoy what he's created for himself
1:44
Speaker 1: and and and you know, cheer up a little bit.
1:46
Speaker 1: I'm waiting for his next album. We're talking about this
1:50
Speaker 1: last time I was hanging out with him. It's called
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Speaker 1: t G I F Thank God it's Friday by the Week. All.
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Speaker 1: It's all re workings of of of of nine these
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Speaker 1: sitcom themes, the ones that described five. Yeah, I talked
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Speaker 1: about this previously on sitcoms. I love this, Oh no way.
2:08
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was this show. But we're
2:11
Speaker 1: not talking about sitcoms today, though I would watch a
2:16
Speaker 1: sitcom about our protagonists. There is something you may have
2:22
Speaker 1: heard of once upon a time. Some call it vibes
2:27
Speaker 1: great films. Some call it a connection great film, Yes, agreed,
2:31
Speaker 1: and one guy called it We're going today is part
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Speaker 1: one of our story. Odd the one and only villain
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Speaker 1: Reich Bill Halm Reich and the sexual revolution baby that
2:46
Speaker 1: many thinkers, um philosophers, thought leaders credit this man with
2:51
Speaker 1: starting UH in no small part. And I did not
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Speaker 1: quite realize that he was such an acolyte of Freud,
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Speaker 1: who also gets a lot of credit for are you know,
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Speaker 1: um starting the idea of thinking about where our sexual
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Speaker 1: urges lead us in terms of our mental progression or
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Speaker 1: lack there of stuntedness. I suppose arrested development all of that.
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Speaker 1: But yeah, folks from you know as far Afield in
3:16
Speaker 1: terms of their work as James Baldwin two Susan Sun
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Speaker 1: talk to Kate Bush, one of my favorite artists of
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Speaker 1: all time. Um have read and written and kind of
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Speaker 1: digested Wilhelm Reich's work and kind of made it their own.
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Speaker 1: We're gonna get to all of these luminaries and how
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Speaker 1: Right kind of affected their work, you know, as we
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Speaker 1: go through this to part Also huge shout out to
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Speaker 1: research Associate extraordinariy Zach Williams. He really, um, you know,
3:44
Speaker 1: went above and beyond for this one. This is a
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Speaker 1: subject that we've covered briefly in our early episode about
3:50
Speaker 1: a scam, a rain making scam. We talk about right
3:54
Speaker 1: just in terms of his contribution to the idea of
3:57
Speaker 1: cloud seating cloud busting, uh in fact, and we also
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Speaker 1: talked about that extensive, extensively stuff they don't want you
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Speaker 1: to know back before, back before it was YouTube, when
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Speaker 1: it was just Apple video or whatever. They called it
4:11
Speaker 1: back then. Also in our audio episodes for the show.
4:16
Speaker 1: We started doing podcasts there. But you're right, we have
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Speaker 1: a we have a closeness with this man. Dare I
4:22
Speaker 1: say a vibe um? And it is true. We have
4:27
Speaker 1: to remember in his time he was born just on
4:30
Speaker 1: the cusp of the twentie century, right, he's born in
4:35
Speaker 1: March of We have to remember that during this time, uh,
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Speaker 1: and during the time it was active, there were many
4:43
Speaker 1: uh let's call them pioneers of thought, right for good
4:47
Speaker 1: or for ill? Would you agree with that? Absolutely? Yeah.
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Speaker 1: And again, like we mentioned Freud, we are going to
4:53
Speaker 1: hear Einstein wang And at some point this is important
4:56
Speaker 1: era in thought leadership beyond science. It really is the
4:59
Speaker 1: birth of kind of ecology which many would have you know,
5:02
Speaker 1: kind of maligned as being a pseudoscience at the time.
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Speaker 1: It was not always thought of kindly by the scientific community.
5:09
Speaker 1: But we're gonna we're gonna explain, you know how, right
5:12
Speaker 1: kind of he pushed the boundaries of that to a degree.
5:14
Speaker 1: But you're right, then he was born March seven in
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Speaker 1: dobro Zenia, which was a part of Galicia, which sounds
5:21
Speaker 1: like a made up place like from or something, but
5:24
Speaker 1: it's sounds like, yeah, that's right. You may not have
5:28
Speaker 1: heard of it though, because at the time that belonged
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Speaker 1: to the Austrian Empire. I don't know that it exists anymore.
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Speaker 1: But after his birth, his family, which was quite well
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Speaker 1: to do, they moved to what you could maybe compare
5:41
Speaker 1: in an American equivalency to a ranch uh and this
5:45
Speaker 1: was in the Ukrainian part of Austria. Uh and that
5:49
Speaker 1: is where um Reich's father started to He became a
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Speaker 1: cattle rancher for specifically the government, the German government. And
5:57
Speaker 1: this was a pretty relatively high post, even though the
6:00
Speaker 1: idea of being a cattle rancher, you know, we know
6:02
Speaker 1: that Hannibal Lector would have looked down his nose at that,
6:05
Speaker 1: but it was kind of a big deal. This put
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Speaker 1: him in an upper echelon of German society. I think
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Speaker 1: he looked down on on Shepherd's right, it's the silence.
6:13
Speaker 1: Was the labs not they were? They were We'll have
6:19
Speaker 1: to ask him. We'll have to have Hannibal Lector on
6:22
Speaker 1: the show. Anthony Hopkins, you were disinvited to Ridiculous History.
6:26
Speaker 1: You can only show up as your character Hannibal lector.
6:30
Speaker 1: And we also want to shout out, by the way,
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Speaker 1: David Elkins from the New York Times, who wrote an
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Speaker 1: excellent article back in ninety one, called Philim Reich the Psychoanalyst,
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Speaker 1: as revolutionary. This goes into his early life in depth,
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Speaker 1: and it's very well worth the read. Now, yes, you're right.
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Speaker 1: The family was well to do, relatively speaking, and they
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Speaker 1: had Jewish heritage, but if you asked them out there
7:02
Speaker 1: on the official German government cattle ranch, they would identify
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Speaker 1: more with German culture. Wilhelm and his brother were not
7:12
Speaker 1: allowed to play with the poor kids in the neighborhood.
7:16
Speaker 1: They also, looking back, the brothers did not appear very
7:21
Speaker 1: close to each other. They were sort of alone in
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Speaker 1: the crowd of their family. And since we're being a
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Speaker 1: little Freudian folks, and since we're talking a little bit
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Speaker 1: about psychoanalysis, we have to say that this is not
7:38
Speaker 1: us saying that. Some people would say that Reich's familial
7:42
Speaker 1: dynamic had an effect on him later in life. His
7:46
Speaker 1: dad was sort of domineering and a bit of a tyrant,
7:50
Speaker 1: and his mom was sort of cowed by him. And
7:55
Speaker 1: when Reich was young, when it was an adolescent, his
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Speaker 1: mom had an affair with one of the tutors living
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Speaker 1: with the family, and it was pretty common for well
8:06
Speaker 1: to do families back then to have tutors, right to
8:10
Speaker 1: have kind of these all pairs or the instructors rather
8:14
Speaker 1: than Cindy door kids to school. And there's an interesting
8:18
Speaker 1: line in the New York Times article. It's interesting. That's
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Speaker 1: why I shout out Elkins here, the author of that article,
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Speaker 1: because he says, this is a quote. He says it
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Speaker 1: is likely that Right bores some responsibility for his father's
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Speaker 1: discovery of the affair and for his mother's subsequent suicide.
8:35
Speaker 1: And Wright goes on to be married several times throughout
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Speaker 1: the course of his life, and one of his spouses
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Speaker 1: his third spouse, I'll say Ollendorff Reich will later write
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Speaker 1: that she believes Reich may have felt some responsibility for
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Speaker 1: his mother's death, and this may have been one of
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Speaker 1: the things that stopped him from completing what she called
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Speaker 1: his own analysis, like there were things he could never
9:10
Speaker 1: fully process after that moment. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean,
9:15
Speaker 1: it's it's a lot to contend with, and it's the
9:17
Speaker 1: kind of these kind of things that carry follow us
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Speaker 1: from childhood into adulthood that we sometimes can never fully
9:22
Speaker 1: deal with or process unless we meet them head on,
9:26
Speaker 1: and sometimes it's very difficult to do. Uh. That is
9:28
Speaker 1: where therapy is a very important thing. But it wasn't
9:31
Speaker 1: necessarily something that he, as the analyst or as the
9:35
Speaker 1: therapist maybe was willing to look inwardly upon. Um. But
9:39
Speaker 1: you know, we'll get to more of that in a
9:41
Speaker 1: bid as well. UM. So he actually joined the military
9:44
Speaker 1: UM during World War One. He was an Austrian Army
9:48
Speaker 1: Officer UM and he served in Italy and again Elkin
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Speaker 1: writes for The New York Times that he he liked it.
9:55
Speaker 1: He seemed that the military life seems to suit him.
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Speaker 1: He was a man of many, Um, let's just say exuberances.
10:03
Speaker 1: You know. He he had a lot of gusto and
10:06
Speaker 1: get up and go. He was able to kind of
10:09
Speaker 1: give that a home, you know with some of this, uh,
10:11
Speaker 1: this kind of military life is regimented military life. Um.
10:15
Speaker 1: He was very intuitive. Any skill that he sought he
10:19
Speaker 1: could he could pick up pretty easily. I think we
10:22
Speaker 1: all know people like that where it's like borderline obnoxious,
10:25
Speaker 1: but like he could ride a horse. Uh, He's like,
10:28
Speaker 1: you know, he picked it up instantly. Um, and you
10:30
Speaker 1: think it's obnoxious when people are talented obnoxious. It's just
10:35
Speaker 1: like when people when there's some people that are just
10:37
Speaker 1: good at everything without very much effort. I say this,
10:41
Speaker 1: you know, half jokingly, but yeah, I mean it's like,
10:45
Speaker 1: must be nice, you know, to just be able to
10:47
Speaker 1: be like naturally gifted at all the things. They leave
10:50
Speaker 1: some for the rest of us. No, you're not gonna stay,
10:52
Speaker 1: so I say, yeah, it's so annoying, like you have
10:53
Speaker 1: that thing that you've been working on for a long time.
10:55
Speaker 1: Then look a lot of years like, oh that's interestingly,
10:57
Speaker 1: like three weeks later they're better out than you. And
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Speaker 1: it's like I've been working on this for four years
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Speaker 1: and you're already better than me. Maybe I need to
11:03
Speaker 1: work on this with a therapist. Also, yeah, I think
11:05
Speaker 1: we're probably gonna all find some things that are gonna
11:07
Speaker 1: bubble up about ourselves in this one. But yes, skiing,
11:11
Speaker 1: you know, horseback riding, piano, you know. Art um. He
11:15
Speaker 1: was also obviously very very gifted in academics. So as
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Speaker 1: the person in ridiculous history who is not angry at
11:24
Speaker 1: other people doing well, let me shout out Wilhelm. He
11:28
Speaker 1: did some awesome stuff. He didn't find his true north
11:32
Speaker 1: right away. And this is something we see with many
11:35
Speaker 1: uh many people who are kind of like you guys said,
11:40
Speaker 1: kind of always talented. It's stuff, right. Their question becomes,
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Speaker 1: am I a jack of all trades master of none?
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Speaker 1: What is my true calling? First? Reich tries law. He
11:52
Speaker 1: tries the legal world, and he finds that it is boring,
11:56
Speaker 1: so he switches to the medical world. And this is
12:01
Speaker 1: you'll love this, Max. This is the moment where he
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Speaker 1: takes a six year program in med school and finishes
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Speaker 1: it in four years, and he uh he supports himself
12:13
Speaker 1: during the last few years by tutoring his fellow students.
12:17
Speaker 1: This is also where he meets his first spouse, Annie Pink.
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Speaker 1: They marry in nineteen one. Yes, that's pink like the color,
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Speaker 1: and Pink would go on to become an a well
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Speaker 1: known analyst in her own life. But we need to
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Speaker 1: backtrack a little before he meets Annie. Picture the meat
12:38
Speaker 1: cute rom com moment they have and then just rewind
12:41
Speaker 1: in the ridiculous history cinema of the mind to a
12:46
Speaker 1: pivotal moment that occurs just a few years earlier. He's
12:50
Speaker 1: still a student it's nineteen nineteen. But no, this is
12:55
Speaker 1: the crossroads moment hashtag bone, Thugs and harmony where Right
13:01
Speaker 1: attends a lecture that will change his life. He sits
13:04
Speaker 1: in on a little ted talk of the time about
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Speaker 1: psycho analysis, and he is into it. He is ted
13:13
Speaker 1: toes down on this. He is so intrigued that he
13:16
Speaker 1: immediately decides he is going to be a psychiatrist. Yeah.
13:21
Speaker 1: I mean, because again, this is kind of like the
13:23
Speaker 1: early days of this, uh, this discipline. And I've always
13:26
Speaker 1: kind of found psychiatry to be sort of an interesting
13:31
Speaker 1: combination of like medicine and philosophy. You know, it's like
13:35
Speaker 1: mind science of the mind or whatever like it is.
13:38
Speaker 1: It does it It kind of combines a lot of disciplines.
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Speaker 1: And then him being this guy that was sort of
13:42
Speaker 1: all over the place and the stuff that he was
13:44
Speaker 1: interested in, you know, from art to philosophy to various
13:48
Speaker 1: academic studies. This made sense that it would kind of
13:51
Speaker 1: be this sort of fusion of a lot of things
13:53
Speaker 1: into one relatively new field. Not to mention that he
13:57
Speaker 1: was kind of a cutting edge guy, and it was like, Okay,
13:58
Speaker 1: I want to get on the ground floor of this.
14:00
Speaker 1: That makes a lot of sense. Um, So you're right. Um,
14:02
Speaker 1: it was something that really grabbed him right away. I
14:06
Speaker 1: was asking very profound questions that he himself had been asking. Uh.
14:11
Speaker 1: He found the study to be challenging and less kind
14:15
Speaker 1: of you know, paint by numbers than something like medicine
14:19
Speaker 1: or the law. Um, this was a very good fit
14:22
Speaker 1: for him, so he decided to pursue that with Gusto. Uh.
14:27
Speaker 1: And because of that kind of you know, enthusiasm that
14:30
Speaker 1: he put forth, it was noticed and he was very
14:32
Speaker 1: quickly admitted to the Vienna psycho Analytic Society and started
14:38
Speaker 1: seeing patients pretty quickly. And this will certainly be frowned
14:41
Speaker 1: on today. But before he completed his medical training, Yeah,
14:52
Speaker 1: let's talk a little more about Freud, because Freud influences
14:57
Speaker 1: Reich well before he um gets associated with a psychoanalytics society,
15:05
Speaker 1: Freud thought the world of Reich. He looked at him
15:09
Speaker 1: and said, this guy has potential, at least in the beginning,
15:14
Speaker 1: will get their folks in the nineteen twenties, and this
15:19
Speaker 1: comes from the Guardian, wonderful article by our pal Olivia Lang.
15:26
Speaker 1: We haven't met Olivia, but we love the way she writes.
15:29
Speaker 1: Right kind of does something heretical, right to the Viennese
15:35
Speaker 1: school of thoughts. At the time, he's listening to his
15:39
Speaker 1: patients speak and he keeps looking at their body language. Basically,
15:47
Speaker 1: they're laying on the couch or the chaise lounge, and
15:51
Speaker 1: they are rigid, they're guarded, and he thinks, maybe there's
15:57
Speaker 1: something else they're trying to commune. K. Perhaps it is
16:01
Speaker 1: not something one can articulate in words. Maybe he thinks
16:06
Speaker 1: Freud isn't going far enough. Maybe the past is not
16:11
Speaker 1: just hiding in your memories, your verbal like the memories
16:15
Speaker 1: you can vocalize, but maybe it's also hidden physically. Maybe
16:21
Speaker 1: your your your distress, your past experiences are somehow stowed
16:28
Speaker 1: away in your body, almost like a battery, you know,
16:32
Speaker 1: can store electricity. Uh. He he felt that this these
16:38
Speaker 1: emotions um manifested themselves as energy, as some sort of
16:43
Speaker 1: almost electrical current. I'm sort of editorializing here, but definitely
16:48
Speaker 1: a form of energy that could be in some ways
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Speaker 1: store in the body and possibly harnessed or re you know,
16:56
Speaker 1: um directed, diverted UM. And this was sort of like this,
17:00
Speaker 1: this aha moment really was kind of the the genesis
17:04
Speaker 1: of his later Some would say more out there, you
17:10
Speaker 1: know studies. Yeah. Yeah, it's strange because he senses a
17:19
Speaker 1: tension in people, and he says, maybe this is a
17:24
Speaker 1: defensive move. Maybe this is some sort of instinct towards
17:28
Speaker 1: self preservation. Maybe someone is trying to restrain their anxiety,
17:34
Speaker 1: their rage, their anger, their sorrow, their sexual excitement. Uh.
17:40
Speaker 1: And he thinks, if you're in a place where these
17:44
Speaker 1: emotions are repressed, or where they are traumatic or very upsetting,
17:50
Speaker 1: then the only alternative in his mind is that the
17:54
Speaker 1: patient must tense up and try to bottle it down
17:58
Speaker 1: right deep inside. Why are you so tense? Why are
18:01
Speaker 1: you so rigid? That's just how I stand man. Uh.
18:07
Speaker 1: He believes that this shows evidence in the physicality of
18:12
Speaker 1: the patient, so he starts working with the patient's bodies.
18:17
Speaker 1: Now at this point, he's verging into territory, which is
18:21
Speaker 1: completely forbidden in psychoanalysis. He starts talking with patients about
18:26
Speaker 1: their bodies, their body language, and then he starts physically
18:30
Speaker 1: touching them. And surprise, surprise, at least in Reich's opinion,
18:36
Speaker 1: when he is physically touching folks, he starts putting his
18:42
Speaker 1: hands on what he sees as the physical expression of
18:46
Speaker 1: these emotions, right, expressions of fright, clinched fist, you know,
18:50
Speaker 1: tensed shoulders, that sort of stuff. And he believes that
18:55
Speaker 1: by touching them, he can bring these feelings to the
18:59
Speaker 1: surface it's the physical and emotional surface and release them.
19:04
Speaker 1: And it's a lot like um memory regression almost. You know.
19:09
Speaker 1: He feels that patients are experiencing memories they had kind
19:15
Speaker 1: of forgotten and they would release them upon this physical stimulation.
19:21
Speaker 1: This is true. And when they released those feelings, when
19:25
Speaker 1: they process that stuff and let it out, they would
19:29
Speaker 1: have something that that right called streaming, which is not
19:35
Speaker 1: a subscription service online. It's a pleasurable rippling feeling. Yeah.
19:40
Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of parallel thought here, um
19:44
Speaker 1: that I think we we both see the idea of tension,
19:48
Speaker 1: you know, carrying stress in the body. Um. You know,
19:51
Speaker 1: that aligns with a lot of like kind of holistic
19:54
Speaker 1: met medicine and massage therapy and things like raiky and
19:57
Speaker 1: energy work and you know other things things that maybe
20:00
Speaker 1: you're not fully embraced all the time by the scientific community,
20:04
Speaker 1: even parts of scientology. The idea of storing these like
20:07
Speaker 1: theatan's or whatever, these like weird dead ghosts, uh, sorry
20:11
Speaker 1: spoiler alert for anyone that hasn't made it down the
20:13
Speaker 1: bridge yet. Um, but that stuff been online for years,
20:16
Speaker 1: um down the bridge of the bridge. But yeah, there
20:19
Speaker 1: is some parallel you know kind of stuff going on here. Um,
20:22
Speaker 1: the idea that these energies stored in your body or
20:26
Speaker 1: in your muscles or you know, are in some way
20:30
Speaker 1: a sign of repression of holding onto things, and that
20:33
Speaker 1: they can you know, get worse, um even just like
20:37
Speaker 1: you know tensions and your muscles that can be relieved
20:39
Speaker 1: by you know, pressure points and things like that. I mean,
20:42
Speaker 1: it's all kind of a similar ball of wax here.
20:45
Speaker 1: I think it's really interesting. Freud, on the other hand,
20:47
Speaker 1: he was not about the touchy touchy um. He was
20:50
Speaker 1: much more into you know, the pure psychoanalysis and and
20:55
Speaker 1: he believed that it all needed to be you know,
20:57
Speaker 1: on a purely um talking kind of talk therapy, the
21:01
Speaker 1: talking cure kind of modality. I guess he wrote that
21:06
Speaker 1: he was a little bit on the fence about you know,
21:08
Speaker 1: what Reich was doing. So Freud was he wasn't really
21:11
Speaker 1: against Reich's methods, but he he wasn't necessarily coming out
21:16
Speaker 1: in full support of them either. He clearly gave, you know,
21:21
Speaker 1: some sort of test that like, okay, you should try
21:23
Speaker 1: to explore this more. Uh, for the more kind of
21:26
Speaker 1: base level methods that Reich was exploring. With some of
21:28
Speaker 1: the more extreme methods he actually, you know fully kind
21:32
Speaker 1: of withheld his his support for. And then, by the way,
21:36
Speaker 1: we've got another great article to site here, the scientific
21:39
Speaker 1: Assassination of a sexual Revolutionary, How America interrupted Wilhelm Reich's
21:44
Speaker 1: Orgasmic Utopia by Jason Louve from Motherboard. M Yeah, out
21:50
Speaker 1: of vice. Yeah, this is the thing right now, at
21:55
Speaker 1: this period of time, in the nineteen winnings or so,
22:02
Speaker 1: Freud is a big deal. And if Freud likes you,
22:05
Speaker 1: that's great for your career. If Freud says you're middling,
22:10
Speaker 1: that's middling for your career. And god forbid, Sigmund have
22:15
Speaker 1: a problem with your work or you know what you
22:19
Speaker 1: see as your work. He didn't really take this streaming.
22:23
Speaker 1: So the psycho analytic community at this time, which we
22:28
Speaker 1: have to remember, is pretty young. Uh, they say accidental
22:32
Speaker 1: pun they're not j U n G there, y o
22:37
Speaker 1: U n G. Thank you, Max, I appreciate your support.
22:47
Speaker 1: So he So the thing is because Freud is objecting
22:52
Speaker 1: to some of Reich's thoughts. Here the overall community, which
23:00
Speaker 1: of which Freud is an integral part, the other psychoanalysts,
23:06
Speaker 1: they start saying, okay, well, let's dismiss right here. He's
23:10
Speaker 1: not on the same page, the same therapist couch as us.
23:15
Speaker 1: Things start to get worse and worse for Wilhelm. It's
23:22
Speaker 1: he's trying to deal with a backlash of his community saying, hey,
23:28
Speaker 1: you're a bit heretical, you're a bit crazy. And he
23:31
Speaker 1: asked Sigmund Freud to psychoanalyze him. It's like, Sigmund, big bro,
23:39
Speaker 1: maybe you can help me, Maybe you can help me
23:41
Speaker 1: figure out where I have misstepped. And this guy, who
23:46
Speaker 1: very much is like a father figure to Villam he says,
23:50
Speaker 1: uh no, can't do it. We don't know whether it's
23:53
Speaker 1: scheduling or a flat out refusal, but this really cut
23:59
Speaker 1: right to the war. And then right after that, his
24:02
Speaker 1: brother dies of tuberculosis. Right gets tuberculosis. He has to
24:08
Speaker 1: go to a sanitarium in Davos, Switzerland. This just like,
24:14
Speaker 1: it feels like this is a um a cavalcade of catastrophes.
24:19
Speaker 1: We promised he gets a little better, but right now
24:22
Speaker 1: he's in a sanitarium, he gets radicalized. I found this
24:26
Speaker 1: interesting knoll. He joins the Communist Party, and then he
24:31
Speaker 1: becomes an activist. That's right. And he you know, he
24:34
Speaker 1: was never really that guy per se. He was more
24:39
Speaker 1: into his studies than he was into politics. You know,
24:42
Speaker 1: he never really seemed to take a particular stance politically
24:45
Speaker 1: up until this point. But after witnessing some horrific violence
24:49
Speaker 1: at the hands of police during the July Revolt of
24:52
Speaker 1: nineteen seven in Vienna, where he saw police kill, shoot
24:56
Speaker 1: and kill eighty four workers and injure and another sick hundred,
25:00
Speaker 1: he decided that there was something very, very very off
25:04
Speaker 1: about this or this organization of of you know, power
25:07
Speaker 1: dynamic in the world, and he decided that he needed
25:11
Speaker 1: to speak out against it. He believed that the police
25:14
Speaker 1: were inherently a an occupying force, you know, very similar
25:19
Speaker 1: to a lot of the you know, defund the police
25:21
Speaker 1: kind of movement that we see today, you know, around
25:25
Speaker 1: a lot of police brutality. So he was very much
25:26
Speaker 1: ahead of ahead of the curve there, as he was
25:29
Speaker 1: with a lot of things. He Vice. This Vice article
25:32
Speaker 1: described him as thinking that the police weren't only brutal,
25:35
Speaker 1: he observed. But they were robotic as if in a trance. Uh,
25:39
Speaker 1: and also armored. So nothing worse than robots in a
25:43
Speaker 1: trance that have guns. Well, think about it, because it
25:47
Speaker 1: goes back to his original finding, right where he strayed
25:52
Speaker 1: from the path of established psychoanalysis. They're moving like robots.
25:59
Speaker 1: Their physicality is affected, perhaps by some emotional trauma or repression.
26:05
Speaker 1: That's where Reich's thoughts are headed. And he is he
26:10
Speaker 1: is now pulling demonstrations in the streets. He is thinking
26:15
Speaker 1: about all of these factors and he's doing a Charlie Day,
26:20
Speaker 1: always sunny in Philadelphia conspiracy board. You know, so picture
26:25
Speaker 1: picture young Billy. I'll call him and he's he's saying,
26:29
Speaker 1: you know what, economic repression, sexual repression. It's all related, man,
26:35
Speaker 1: It's all connected. This goes all the way to the
26:37
Speaker 1: top and the bottom. And I, he says, I am
26:41
Speaker 1: opening a series of clinics throughout Vienna, and I you know,
26:47
Speaker 1: I recently went to Austria for a thing. And it's nuts.
26:52
Speaker 1: How um, it's nuts how Freud is treated or regarded
26:57
Speaker 1: versus Philam Reich. And we're about to why his clinics
27:01
Speaker 1: that open up scandalizing established psycho analysis. They say, look,
27:08
Speaker 1: we'll give you the psychoanalysis you've come to love and expect.
27:12
Speaker 1: We will also give you some sex head and we
27:16
Speaker 1: will also supply contraceptives to young and working class people. Interesting.
27:25
Speaker 1: I didn't know this at the time. Back then, the
27:29
Speaker 1: folks who consider themselves more liberal would say, yes, you
27:33
Speaker 1: can have contraception, but only if you're already married, if
27:37
Speaker 1: you're in wedlock, that's kind of nuts, right, No, it's
27:43
Speaker 1: interesting that you mentioned to Ben that like this, he
27:46
Speaker 1: was getting pushed back from the psycho and now an
27:50
Speaker 1: analytical community, which was already kind of a controversial field.
27:54
Speaker 1: So he was sort of like the next level in
27:58
Speaker 1: in controversy surrounding this field, and he was sort of
28:01
Speaker 1: pushing the envelope even farther than than those folks. The
28:04
Speaker 1: more you know established psychoanalysts for wood and obviously it
28:07
Speaker 1: was very popular and it was very like in vogue
28:10
Speaker 1: of the time, but it was also, uh, you know,
28:12
Speaker 1: seen by some as dangerous. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, they're playing
28:16
Speaker 1: with live fire, and this community is exploring things that
28:22
Speaker 1: were considered maybe off limits or forbidden in polite conversation.
28:28
Speaker 1: And Reich moves from Austria to Germany. He moves to
28:35
Speaker 1: Berlin in n and uh, fellow history enthusiasts, you know
28:41
Speaker 1: that there was something evil brewing in Berlin at this time.
28:45
Speaker 1: It's the rise of the Nazi Party and rich um
28:52
Speaker 1: Reich is continuing to write and explore his theories and
28:57
Speaker 1: he showed them to his colleagues in the Communist Party
29:00
Speaker 1: and various Communist organizations, but they're not super into it.
29:06
Speaker 1: And he keeps making um, I don't want to say,
29:10
Speaker 1: making enemies, but he keeps sort of burning professional bridges
29:15
Speaker 1: because he's just too controversial. He has this contract with
29:20
Speaker 1: a publishing outfit, the International Psychoanalytic Publishers. They cancel the
29:25
Speaker 1: deal because he goes a little further with sex head
29:30
Speaker 1: than they are used to or comfortable with. He says, look,
29:35
Speaker 1: we're not going to do abstinence only education for teens
29:39
Speaker 1: for teenagers. Instead, we're gonna talk to them bluntly about
29:44
Speaker 1: sex and sexual interactions and contraceptives. Yeah, it reminds me
29:49
Speaker 1: of Kinsey. I think this is roughly around the same time.
29:51
Speaker 1: He might have even been a little later, but um,
29:53
Speaker 1: you know the American um, you know, sex psychologist. I
29:58
Speaker 1: guess he proposed was a lot of these same things,
30:01
Speaker 1: but I think a little bit later and even then
30:02
Speaker 1: he was persona on grata and a lot of circles.
30:05
Speaker 1: So this was absolutely above and beyond what society was
30:09
Speaker 1: willing to uh to to bear. And of course it's
30:13
Speaker 1: easy to spend some of this stuff out of context.
30:16
Speaker 1: The idea that he was advocating for, you know, young
30:20
Speaker 1: people having sex, it wasn't exactly what he was doing.
30:23
Speaker 1: He was advocating for young people to understand their bodies
30:27
Speaker 1: and to you know, have access to things that would
30:30
Speaker 1: allow them to have sex if they so choose, without consequences,
30:34
Speaker 1: without getting getting pregnant or I don't know that even
30:37
Speaker 1: std s were part of it as much at this
30:38
Speaker 1: time or the conversation, but it was more about just
30:43
Speaker 1: you know, having access to information than it was about
30:46
Speaker 1: encouraging some sort of like sexual free for all. Yeah,
30:51
Speaker 1: and he points out that there's a bit of hypocrisy,
30:56
Speaker 1: or at the very least there's a bit of u
30:58
Speaker 1: contradictory messaging that young people are receiving at this time
31:03
Speaker 1: in Europe. In N two, he makes this pamphlet called
31:08
Speaker 1: the Sexual Struggle of Youth, and it's his sort of
31:12
Speaker 1: condemnation of current society and the ways in which it
31:16
Speaker 1: makes it difficult for adolescence to navigate these huge changes
31:24
Speaker 1: in their lives. And I think that's a valid point.
31:27
Speaker 1: He's saying, Hey, these kids need help, right, And we
31:32
Speaker 1: have a quote from him. I'm not going to do
31:34
Speaker 1: a voice for it, but just you get a sense
31:37
Speaker 1: of the flavor of this. He says, young people are
31:41
Speaker 1: contaminated on the one hand by moralizers and advocates of abstinence,
31:46
Speaker 1: and on the other hand by pornographic literature. Both influences
31:51
Speaker 1: are extremely dangerous, the former no less than the latter.
31:56
Speaker 1: And at this point he's twenty seven. Yeah, my mind
32:07
Speaker 1: blowing to me whenever I read that. Just Wow, those
32:10
Speaker 1: guys really ahead of the curve. Um. But that that
32:13
Speaker 1: that one part of the quote that you'd read Ben,
32:15
Speaker 1: the idea of pornographic literature, that's really important because you know,
32:20
Speaker 1: as pro sex and sex positive as Reich was, he
32:25
Speaker 1: was vehemently anti pornography. He thought that was like a
32:29
Speaker 1: toxic influence um and and not something that was beneficial
32:33
Speaker 1: in any way, shape or form. That it was a
32:36
Speaker 1: repressive force rather than a liberating force. And he was
32:41
Speaker 1: also against the concept of bonogamy. He he argued against yeah,
32:50
Speaker 1: he said, uh. He said, you should have lasting, loving
32:54
Speaker 1: relationships that are held together by affection rather than legal
32:59
Speaker 1: can straints. And he said, you know, if you tried
33:02
Speaker 1: to do anything else, you're going to get tired of
33:05
Speaker 1: each other. Basically the phrase he uses is secual dulling. Yes,
33:12
Speaker 1: I feel like I have to say seck sex. Yeah,
33:15
Speaker 1: I know, you absolutely do and did beautifully. Um. He
33:19
Speaker 1: also was very uh, it was very It was a feminist.
33:23
Speaker 1: I mean, he he felt that women were kept down
33:26
Speaker 1: by economic dependence, you know, on men, and that it
33:30
Speaker 1: caused them to be kind of essentially like you know,
33:34
Speaker 1: in a in a carrying forward of the old ways,
33:37
Speaker 1: put into these kind of forced marriages or arranged marriages,
33:41
Speaker 1: even if they weren't politically arranged, they oftentimes were. I mean,
33:45
Speaker 1: if if wealthy families would would very oftentimes kind of
33:48
Speaker 1: force you know, their families to be united and there
33:51
Speaker 1: wasn't much choice. It wasn't the same as like you know,
33:54
Speaker 1: in the House of the Dragon or whatever, but it
33:56
Speaker 1: definitely had a an air of that kind of like
33:59
Speaker 1: you know, I will wed my first born first of
34:03
Speaker 1: his name to Marjorie of House you know whatever you
34:07
Speaker 1: know down the street, and you know it. Moneyed people
34:10
Speaker 1: wanted to marry their kids off too moneyed people so
34:13
Speaker 1: that they could carry on the legacy of money. Um
34:16
Speaker 1: and and the idea of a bloodline or whatever that
34:18
Speaker 1: is not something that has even gone to this day. Yeah, yeah,
34:23
Speaker 1: and he is uh, he is one of those guys
34:26
Speaker 1: who is proposing the idea that it takes a village, right, Like,
34:31
Speaker 1: if you have more parent figures, if you have more
34:35
Speaker 1: caretaker figures in a child's life, maybe you can help
34:40
Speaker 1: save them from some of the crazy stuff. You know.
34:44
Speaker 1: It reminds me of this wonderful Philip Larkin poem. It's
34:47
Speaker 1: a wonderful poem with a terrible name. It's called this
34:51
Speaker 1: be the Verse. Because we are family show, We're gonna
34:54
Speaker 1: have some beeps here. Courtesy of Mr Max Williams. Here's
34:58
Speaker 1: the poem, and this is something rich would agree with.
35:02
Speaker 1: Theyque up your mom and dad. They may not mean to,
35:05
Speaker 1: but they do. They fill you with the faults they
35:07
Speaker 1: had and add some extra just for you. But they
35:10
Speaker 1: were faked up in their turn by fools and old
35:13
Speaker 1: style hats and coats who half the time where soppy,
35:16
Speaker 1: stern and half at one another's throat. Man hands on
35:20
Speaker 1: misery to man, it deepens like a coastal shelf. Get
35:24
Speaker 1: out as early as you can, and don't have any
35:26
Speaker 1: kids yourself. Philip Larket, I feel like I feel like
35:30
Speaker 1: Rich would agree with him, because he's worried, like you're saying, all,
35:33
Speaker 1: he's worried about this intergenerational trauma, right, that's what we
35:37
Speaker 1: would call it today. Yeah, exactly. And then and we've
35:40
Speaker 1: talked about the idea of intergenerational trauma or even what
35:44
Speaker 1: is it epigenetics, the idea of trauma that can be
35:47
Speaker 1: carried you know, in the genes generationally, um, not just
35:51
Speaker 1: things that you witnessed while you're alive. Um, it actually
35:54
Speaker 1: can have you know. Again, this is also a kind
35:56
Speaker 1: of of a of a modern day burgeoning, sort of
35:59
Speaker 1: of just the plan. But it's the idea that you know,
36:02
Speaker 1: the formation of our very the very core of who
36:05
Speaker 1: we are, you know, in terms of like you know,
36:07
Speaker 1: chemically speaking, can be impacted by trauma of of of
36:11
Speaker 1: our forbears, you know. So yeah, again I keep saying this,
36:15
Speaker 1: but it's true. I mean, Reich really was very much
36:19
Speaker 1: had his figure on the pulse of a lot of
36:20
Speaker 1: really fascinating concepts that would later be given a lot
36:24
Speaker 1: more you know, kind of credence, and then taking a
36:26
Speaker 1: little more seriously mm hmmm. And he does have another
36:31
Speaker 1: run in with his former mentors Sigmund Freud in nine
36:38
Speaker 1: he meets uh, he meets Sigmund again, and he says,
36:43
Speaker 1: old Doc Freud is kind of looking like a caged
36:46
Speaker 1: animal to me, and he felt that he had sold out. Right,
36:52
Speaker 1: He's looking at his old authority figure, not with the
36:56
Speaker 1: eyes of a young, up and coming psychoanaly us, but
37:00
Speaker 1: now with the eyes of a revolutionary. Right. Uh, some
37:05
Speaker 1: would say a sexuan revolutionary. That's the last time I'm
37:10
Speaker 1: gonna say every time. That is the only way to
37:15
Speaker 1: pronounce it at this point. Um, I fully support you.
37:19
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean he'd like, like we said at
37:20
Speaker 1: the top of the show, I mean, he more or
37:22
Speaker 1: less did kind of come up with this concept, the
37:24
Speaker 1: idea of the sexual revolution. He actually did coin that phrase, um,
37:30
Speaker 1: very very early on, to kind of be this catch
37:33
Speaker 1: all for all of those forms of repression, societal repression
37:39
Speaker 1: that that that targeted sexuality and the idea of sexual
37:42
Speaker 1: identity and the revolution would be a way of of
37:47
Speaker 1: not necessarily it's not like some orgiastic, you know thing exactly.
37:52
Speaker 1: It's not like free love or whatever like it would
37:54
Speaker 1: maybe be more associated with in the in the sixties,
37:56
Speaker 1: But it was about freeing yourself from those kind of
38:00
Speaker 1: tackles because he really felt that a lot of these
38:02
Speaker 1: sexual as did Freud. I mean, we know that Freud's
38:05
Speaker 1: whole deal was, you know, right, right, was the idea
38:10
Speaker 1: of of of of being repressed by by these sexual
38:14
Speaker 1: desires and it causing problems and you know, falling in
38:16
Speaker 1: love with your mother and all of this stuff. Um.
38:19
Speaker 1: But Rick took it a step further, and I would
38:21
Speaker 1: argue he kind of got it a little bit more.
38:24
Speaker 1: I think, so, yeah, I I agree with you. I
38:27
Speaker 1: think so an old because Rych said something that a
38:32
Speaker 1: lot of people weren't willing to admit. But it's something that,
38:36
Speaker 1: at least from my perspective, is absolutely true. He said, hey,
38:41
Speaker 1: sexiest part of life, and it's kind of dumb to
38:44
Speaker 1: ignore that. And I believe, says villehelm Reich, that having
38:51
Speaker 1: a good orgasm can make you feel better. He goes
38:56
Speaker 1: a little bit further then I just did with that statement.
38:59
Speaker 1: He says it can make the difference between sickness and health,
39:05
Speaker 1: and he starts saying it is a panacea for not
39:08
Speaker 1: just any psychological issues people are having, but physical issues
39:14
Speaker 1: as well, and he basically thinks if more people are
39:19
Speaker 1: having more pleasurable physical experiences, then it will help fight fascism.
39:26
Speaker 1: So again, like you were just saying no, when he
39:28
Speaker 1: says sexual revolutionary or sexual revolution, he is talking about
39:35
Speaker 1: revolution in geopolitical terms that like that's it's you free
39:40
Speaker 1: the body and then you know, you free the body politic. Basically, hey,
39:45
Speaker 1: that's good, that's very true. And the stakes couldn't have
39:50
Speaker 1: been higher, right, you know, in Germany at this time,
39:53
Speaker 1: I mean, the youth were being completely indoctrinated into this
39:57
Speaker 1: Nazi um you know ideology, which was one based on
40:01
Speaker 1: repression and hate. Even though it sort of preached the
40:04
Speaker 1: idea of like, oh, liberation through a purity of blood
40:09
Speaker 1: and like let's let get rid of anyone that opposes us,
40:12
Speaker 1: and like, you know, this idea of like we are
40:14
Speaker 1: so powerful as as these Aryan brothers and all of
40:17
Speaker 1: this stuff, but it really was just an aggressive form
40:21
Speaker 1: of of repression and indoctrination. That's Right, tensions are building
40:27
Speaker 1: in Right comes out with paper called The Function of
40:32
Speaker 1: the Orgasm, and he says that a lack of full
40:37
Speaker 1: and repeated sexual satisfaction leads to neurosis. And he's trying
40:42
Speaker 1: to reconcile the school of thought that we would call
40:46
Speaker 1: psychoanalysis and the school of thought that we would call Marxism.
40:50
Speaker 1: And he says that this repression is a curable condition.
40:57
Speaker 1: You can get rid of a lot of problems that
41:01
Speaker 1: you would not think are sexual nature. You can get
41:04
Speaker 1: rid of them through better sexual activity. People don't like this,
41:11
Speaker 1: they call it. You can see how this red meat
41:15
Speaker 1: for the press. Right. They they call it a genital utopia.
41:19
Speaker 1: And this is back when people were using the word
41:21
Speaker 1: utopia correctly and unattainable, inherently unattainable paradise. They also call
41:27
Speaker 1: him the profit of bigger, betteral orgasms. Uh. He gets
41:31
Speaker 1: kicked out of the Communist Party, He gets kicked out
41:33
Speaker 1: a psychoanalysis. He still is an important figurehead in both
41:37
Speaker 1: Berlin and Vienna, which means the Nazi party on the
41:44
Speaker 1: rise will have their eye on him. And given that
41:49
Speaker 1: Right has Jewish heritage, and given that the Nazis are monsters,
41:56
Speaker 1: They see him as a figurehead of a con spiracy
42:01
Speaker 1: cabal that for some reason wants to up end or
42:06
Speaker 1: undermine European society. His books start getting burned, along with
42:13
Speaker 1: the works of his one time mentor Sigmund Freud. Things
42:17
Speaker 1: are about to get harry, folks. This is where we
42:20
Speaker 1: end part one of this series, and uh, you know, no,
42:25
Speaker 1: I think we tease a little bit about part two,
42:28
Speaker 1: like we're we're stopping in media arrests here in the
42:31
Speaker 1: middle of the story. We're definitely it had a bit
42:33
Speaker 1: of a cliffhanger where things get real in terms of
42:36
Speaker 1: the Nazis, you know, coming for a Reich. This is
42:39
Speaker 1: really only the beginning. We're going to see Reich develop
42:43
Speaker 1: his philosophies and his sort of more out there, uh
42:46
Speaker 1: psychoanalytical you know, modalities into a full blown I don't
42:52
Speaker 1: know how you describe it, Ben School society. It really
42:56
Speaker 1: is something along the lines of the movements, Yeah, but
42:59
Speaker 1: it really is something along the lines of what you know, UM,
43:03
Speaker 1: a much hackier figure in UM in al Ron Hubbard
43:07
Speaker 1: did with scientology. But we're gonna see the full formation
43:10
Speaker 1: of this um, all the culmination of all of these
43:13
Speaker 1: ideas coming together with the idea of orgone energy, which
43:18
Speaker 1: we already kind of teat up a little bit at
43:19
Speaker 1: the very beginning of the show, and you may see
43:22
Speaker 1: a connection there with the word or gone and the
43:25
Speaker 1: idea of the function of the orgasm uh, and this
43:29
Speaker 1: notion that that Reich was really focused on this energy
43:33
Speaker 1: that was contained within the body and where does it go?
43:35
Speaker 1: What can you do with it? Those are questions we're
43:38
Speaker 1: gonna answer, at least in terms of you know, Reich's
43:41
Speaker 1: uh and many other great thinkers opinions on on those
43:44
Speaker 1: um in the next episode. Yeah. Well, also, just for fundsies,
43:49
Speaker 1: get into the etymology of the word orgasm. Pretty fascinating stuff, folks.
43:56
Speaker 1: We can't wait for you to be a part of
43:59
Speaker 1: the show. Thanks as always to our super producer, Mr
44:03
Speaker 1: Max Williams. Thanks to our composer Alex Williams. Thanks to
44:08
Speaker 1: Dylan Fagan, who inspired Max to make such a cool
44:12
Speaker 1: sound cue. Honestly, dude that I really enjoyed that one.
44:17
Speaker 1: It's good to do. Yeah, Dylan, Dylan, Dylan, Yeah, it's Dylan.
44:27
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you guess so who's here? Oh he's my friend,
44:32
Speaker 1: good god, massive funk. Oh yeah, Dylan I sent a
44:42
Speaker 1: message to Andrew Howard, producer of Savor on Friday. I
44:46
Speaker 1: was like, Yeah, this is what happens when you let
44:48
Speaker 1: Max produce Ridiculous History on Friday. He gets weird and
44:52
Speaker 1: starts singing, Yeah, I love that Friday punchy Max energy.
44:57
Speaker 1: I live for it. So, you know, obviously, Hugh, thanks
45:00
Speaker 1: suproducer Max Williams and brother Alex Williams who composed this theme.
45:04
Speaker 1: Christopher Actiods, who we got to hang out with in
45:07
Speaker 1: the in the Flesh, Ben and I we were just
45:09
Speaker 1: in where were we have been? Dallas at a podcast
45:11
Speaker 1: movement um, and I think we may have armed twisted
45:15
Speaker 1: old Christopher into getting himself a microphone so we can
45:18
Speaker 1: have him on the show. More off him. Yeah, no, no, no,
45:21
Speaker 1: I I threatened him. I'm not about saying it. So
45:25
Speaker 1: also thanks to uh, the ongoing threat to Ridiculous History,
45:29
Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland, a k a. The Quister Uh, and thanks
45:35
Speaker 1: to you know what, We're not gonna say thanks to
45:39
Speaker 1: Villiam Reich yet because his story is not over at
45:45
Speaker 1: this point. And of course we want to give a
45:47
Speaker 1: big shout out to all the psychologists and psychiatrists and
45:52
Speaker 1: therapist listening along today, some of this story may be familiar.
46:00
Speaker 1: We can't wait to hear your take on the story
46:03
Speaker 1: of Wilhelm Reich. Let us get to part two and
46:07
Speaker 1: let us know what you think. Over on Facebook, where
46:09
Speaker 1: we're ridiculous historians. That's right, you can find us there.
46:13
Speaker 1: You can find uh. We're working on getting some some
46:16
Speaker 1: show level social media happening on the Graham. But in
46:19
Speaker 1: the meantime, you can follow me exclusively on Instagram where
46:22
Speaker 1: I'm at. How now, Noel brown Man, I believe you've
46:25
Speaker 1: got a couple of presidencies on the worldwide webs It's true. Yeah,
46:30
Speaker 1: I classed up Instagram. You can find me in a
46:33
Speaker 1: burst of creativity being called at Ben Bulling bow L
46:36
Speaker 1: I n on Instagram. I recently discovered cheese flavored ice cream.
46:42
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be trying that out, So go to my Instagram.
46:45
Speaker 1: Uh you'll get the results as I do. Folks, wish
46:48
Speaker 1: me luck, but uh fortune flavors the bold hashtag no
46:52
Speaker 1: pun left behind. You can also find me on Twitter,
46:55
Speaker 1: where I'm app in bulling hs W. What's the big
46:58
Speaker 1: deal about Twitter? Ben? You might be saying, Well, the
47:02
Speaker 1: big deal about Twitter? Folks? If you're in the know.
47:05
Speaker 1: Is that that is one of the few places on
47:07
Speaker 1: the Internet where you can find Mr Max Williams. Yes,
47:11
Speaker 1: you can only find me in very specific parts of Twitter,
47:14
Speaker 1: such as, uh, you know, trolling Ben on his tweets,
47:18
Speaker 1: so you can find me there, or you can find
47:20
Speaker 1: me at at ahl Underscore Max Williams. All right, we're
47:23
Speaker 1: gonna psychoanalyze ourselves. Uh and and have a quick check
47:28
Speaker 1: in before we get to part two. Right, no anybody else?
47:33
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm a chaise
47:35
Speaker 1: standing by. We'll see you next time. Folks. For more
47:45
Speaker 1: podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,
47:48
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.