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The Masonic Roundtable - 0568 - Tradition · The Masonic Roundtable - Freemasonry Today for Today's Freemasons

• 0:10
  Speaker: Hello and welcome back to the Masonic Roundtable, a weekly
• 0:13
  Speaker: program where Masons from around the world get together to talk
• 0:15
  Speaker: about Masonic news and opinions in a friendly and social manner.
• 0:18
  Speaker: As a reminder, the thoughts and opinions expressed here are
• 0:22
  Speaker: solely the opinions of the participants and do not
• 0:24
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• 0:45
  Speaker: You know me, John T Ruark, past
• 0:47
  Speaker: master of the Patreon Lodge
• 0:48
  Speaker: number nineteen fifty seven in
• 0:50
  Speaker: Fairfax, Virginia.
• 0:52
  Speaker: Next up for his introduction.
• 0:53
  Speaker: The one the only Joe Martinez.
• 0:56
  Speaker: Hello.
• 0:57
  Speaker: Hey, John.
• 0:59
  Speaker: How are you?
• 1:00
  Speaker: Joe martinez?
• 1:01
  Speaker: I'm Joe martinez.
• 1:02
  Speaker: How are you?
• 1:03
  Speaker: Let's see.
• 1:03
  Speaker: Uh, master Manasseh Lodge number
• 1:05
  Speaker: one eighty two in Manassas,
• 1:06
  Speaker: Virginia.
• 1:07
  Speaker: And, uh, yeah, super jazz to be
• 1:10
  Speaker: here on the the John and Joe
• 1:11
  Speaker: show.
• 1:12
  Speaker: The John and Joe show.
• 1:14
  Speaker: Uh, the dynamic show from the,
• 1:17
  Speaker: the D.C. area back in the day
• 1:19
  Speaker: just retired.
• 1:20
  Speaker: Really?
• 1:21
  Speaker: Mike O'Mara.
• 1:22
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 1:23
  Speaker: Wow.
• 1:24
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 1:25
  Speaker: All right.
• 1:26
  Speaker: Well, as we move into just the two of us tonight, just the just
• 1:30
  Speaker: the two of us.
• 1:32
  Speaker: It's gonna be weird.
• 1:33
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• 1:36
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  Speaker: show and to support free Masonic education for many years to come
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  Speaker: or until twenty, forty, forty, whichever comes first.
• 1:52
  Speaker: And if this week is any reflection next week, the link
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  Speaker: will be patreon dot com.
• 1:56
  Speaker: John and Joe.
• 1:57
  Speaker: The John and China Shochu boom boom.
• 2:00
  Speaker: We need a new song.
• 2:01
  Speaker: We need a stinger.
• 2:02
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 2:02
  Speaker: We do.
• 2:03
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 2:03
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 2:04
  Speaker: For sure.
• 2:05
  Speaker: All right.
• 2:06
  Speaker: Um. What's next?
• 2:07
  Speaker: John T Rourke.
• 2:08
  Speaker: What is next?
• 2:09
  Speaker: It's your favorite segment of the show.
• 2:11
  Speaker: That's right.
• 2:12
  Speaker: You guessed it.
• 2:13
  Speaker: It is tarot card of the week, right?
• 2:31
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 2:31
  Speaker: That's right, it is.
• 2:33
  Speaker: Let's do it.
• 2:33
  Speaker: Um, you know what?
• 2:35
  Speaker: It's that time of year.
• 2:37
  Speaker: Ooh, it's time to bring out all the skull decorations.
• 2:40
  Speaker: Pumpkin spice lattes, pumpkin spice, everything.
• 2:44
  Speaker: Replace the lodge coffee with pumpkin spice coffee.
• 2:47
  Speaker: Yes, it's spooky season.
• 2:49
  Speaker: Well, technically started July
• 2:50
  Speaker: fifth, but, you know, my wife
• 2:52
  Speaker: will let me get the stuff out
• 2:53
  Speaker: earlier, so.
• 2:54
  Speaker: Or won't let me get it out earlier.
• 2:55
  Speaker: I'm using tonight a skull themed.
• 2:59
  Speaker: Arcana tarot, which you would
• 3:02
  Speaker: think would be back to the
• 3:03
  Speaker: future themed.
• 3:03
  Speaker: But it's very, uh, minimalist with, um, it's got flux skull
• 3:09
  Speaker: characters on it still following the rider Waite Smith system.
• 3:13
  Speaker: But tonight.
• 3:14
  Speaker: But tonight we're going to pull
• 3:17
  Speaker: a card that relates to tonight's
• 3:18
  Speaker: episode topic, which is
• 3:20
  Speaker: tradition.
• 3:22
  Speaker: So if I wasn't pulling blindly, I would expect to see like the
• 3:25
  Speaker: Hierophant would be a really good card representing it would
• 3:29
  Speaker: the institution, the traditions.
• 3:31
  Speaker: But tonight I'm going to pull randomly not looking.
• 3:34
  Speaker: And the lovers.
• 3:37
  Speaker: Ooh.
• 3:38
  Speaker: John and Joe.
• 3:40
  Speaker: John and Joe show.
• 3:43
  Speaker: Let's zoom in on this thing.
• 3:44
  Speaker: So we have the lovers.
• 3:45
  Speaker: We have.
• 3:47
  Speaker: Uh. Okay, I'm going to try and do the focus.
• 3:49
  Speaker: Focus.
• 3:50
  Speaker: You got.
• 3:51
  Speaker: Oh, you had it.
• 3:51
  Speaker: Now you don't.
• 3:52
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 3:53
  Speaker: Can I be the one with the sombrero?
• 3:55
  Speaker: The big red and white sombrero.
• 3:59
  Speaker: Yes.
• 4:00
  Speaker: That's me, all right.
• 4:02
  Speaker: Look at that.
• 4:03
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 4:04
  Speaker: Two lovers.
• 4:05
  Speaker: Companions.
• 4:06
  Speaker: Friendship.
• 4:08
  Speaker: Thinking about the other half of your friends, your community,
• 4:12
  Speaker: your lovers, your spouse.
• 4:14
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 4:15
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 4:17
  Speaker: Alignment.
• 4:18
  Speaker: Alignment.
• 4:19
  Speaker: Yes.
• 4:19
  Speaker: Because, um, also very closely related to the pairs pairing.
• 4:24
  Speaker: Like like two of cups, two of wands, etc.. Right.
• 4:27
  Speaker: You have, um, choices.
• 4:30
  Speaker: Options.
• 4:31
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 4:31
  Speaker: Polar opposites, all these
• 4:33
  Speaker: things you take into
• 4:34
  Speaker: consideration like tradition
• 4:37
  Speaker: versus innovation.
• 4:39
  Speaker: So we'll talk a little bit about, about how those two might
• 4:42
  Speaker: be related in tonight's episode.
• 4:45
  Speaker: Uh, the yin and the yang.
• 4:48
  Speaker: These are all important aspects to consider.
• 4:50
  Speaker: The John and the Joe, the John and the Joe.
• 4:53
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 4:54
  Speaker: Polar opposite.
• 4:56
  Speaker: We have a little shout out.
• 4:57
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 4:58
  Speaker: PSL life.
• 5:01
  Speaker: Love it love it.
• 5:02
  Speaker: So that'll be fun.
• 5:03
  Speaker: All right.
• 5:03
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 5:05
  Speaker: Well there we go.
• 5:06
  Speaker: Let's move into tonight's topic,
• 5:08
  Speaker: which is also recommended by,
• 5:11
  Speaker: uh, a patron and fan of the
• 5:12
  Speaker: show.
• 5:14
  Speaker: And he says, have you guys ever done one on tradition?
• 5:18
  Speaker: I said, well, we've talked a lot
• 5:19
  Speaker: about culture and tradition and,
• 5:21
  Speaker: uh, you know, for, I don't know,
• 5:23
  Speaker: five hundred and sixty seven
• 5:24
  Speaker: episodes, but we've never one
• 5:27
  Speaker: done exclusively focused on
• 5:28
  Speaker: tradition.
• 5:29
  Speaker: And so I think this will be a
• 5:30
  Speaker: fun episode to go deep into what
• 5:33
  Speaker: is tradition?
• 5:34
  Speaker: Why do we have traditions?
• 5:35
  Speaker: What are the pros and cons of the traditions that we have in
• 5:39
  Speaker: other aspects of our lives?
• 5:41
  Speaker: How that applies to Freemasonry
• 5:43
  Speaker: and what our strengths and
• 5:45
  Speaker: weaknesses that come with
• 5:47
  Speaker: traditions.
• 5:48
  Speaker: Uh, are we, um, remembering the
• 5:50
  Speaker: past or are we, are we
• 5:51
  Speaker: harnessing ourselves from moving
• 5:53
  Speaker: forward.
• 5:55
  Speaker: Yeah, I would add that, um, yes,
• 5:56
  Speaker: we're totally going to talk
• 5:57
  Speaker: about all those things, but I
• 5:58
  Speaker: would say we're also going to
• 6:00
  Speaker: talk about misconceptions and
• 6:01
  Speaker: misnomers about traditions
• 6:04
  Speaker: because that and innovation are
• 6:06
  Speaker: two words that are just thrown
• 6:08
  Speaker: around all over the Masonic
• 6:10
  Speaker: verse.
• 6:11
  Speaker: Um, a lot of times incorrectly.
• 6:13
  Speaker: So we're going to probably upset you, but we're going to get to
• 6:17
  Speaker: what things actually mean because words matter.
• 6:21
  Speaker: Words do matter.
• 6:22
  Speaker: Words matter.
• 6:23
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 6:24
  Speaker: You know, um, related.
• 6:25
  Speaker: I think I've been much more of a stickler about words and meaning
• 6:29
  Speaker: of things as I became a mason.
• 6:31
  Speaker: Once you start learning the
• 6:32
  Speaker: ritual and you start to learn
• 6:33
  Speaker: old English, which I know, you
• 6:35
  Speaker: know, many Masons, uh, can
• 6:37
  Speaker: relate.
• 6:37
  Speaker: Like, what does that word mean?
• 6:39
  Speaker: And it, uh, certainly you start to really pay more attention to
• 6:45
  Speaker: how words are used in, in sentences for sure.
• 6:48
  Speaker: So let's start with the definition Of tradition.
• 6:54
  Speaker: And in summary, the short version is a tradition is a
• 6:59
  Speaker: belief, custom or way of behaving that is passed down
• 7:06
  Speaker: from one generation to the next within a group or society.
• 7:12
  Speaker: And its etymological meanings comes from the Latin word trader
• 7:16
  Speaker: or trader, which means to hand over or transmit.
• 7:21
  Speaker: So we're literally handing over, transmitting, passing down to
• 7:27
  Speaker: the next generation.
• 7:30
  Speaker: Behaviors, practices, etc.. So do we have any of those?
• 7:34
  Speaker: Do we?
• 7:35
  Speaker: Does that relate to anything that we do in masonry?
• 7:38
  Speaker: No.
• 7:38
  Speaker: Okay.
• 7:38
  Speaker: Good.
• 7:39
  Speaker: Because that would be really awkward if it were the end.
• 7:43
  Speaker: Yes.
• 7:45
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 7:45
  Speaker: No, I, I, I love the definition and I think that nowhere in the
• 7:49
  Speaker: definition did you say that something is a tradition because
• 7:53
  Speaker: of its age, right?
• 7:55
  Speaker: Yes.
• 7:56
  Speaker: Right.
• 7:56
  Speaker: So your definition excluded the age of something.
• 8:00
  Speaker: So. And that's important, right?
• 8:02
  Speaker: Something being old doesn't automatically make it
• 8:05
  Speaker: meaningful, nor does it make it a tradition, right?
• 8:08
  Speaker: So kind of like something is meaningful doesn't mean that
• 8:11
  Speaker: it's old or it's been around for a long time either.
• 8:13
  Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
• 8:14
  Speaker: Those are interchangeable.
• 8:15
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 8:15
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 8:16
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 8:16
  Speaker: Right.
• 8:17
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 8:17
  Speaker: So I mean, I think to your point, yeah, tradition, the way
• 8:21
  Speaker: it should be talked about is like you said, the transmission
• 8:24
  Speaker: of, of standards, of stories, of values that go from one
• 8:29
  Speaker: generation to another.
• 8:31
  Speaker: Right?
• 8:32
  Speaker: When we use the word tradition
• 8:34
  Speaker: in masonry, we're not always
• 8:36
  Speaker: talking about those categories
• 8:38
  Speaker: of things.
• 8:39
  Speaker: Right.
• 8:39
  Speaker: Um, you know, well, let's, let's, let's peel back that
• 8:43
  Speaker: onion then let's go look at how, what are some other synonyms
• 8:48
  Speaker: that might overlap or dilute the meaning of, of traditions.
• 8:52
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 8:53
  Speaker: I mean, I think we're getting to
• 8:55
  Speaker: the, the end of my point where,
• 8:56
  Speaker: uh, you and I were talking about
• 8:58
  Speaker: before the, the show came on
• 8:59
  Speaker: where I think a lot of people in
• 9:02
  Speaker: general and Mason specifically
• 9:04
  Speaker: interchange the word tradition
• 9:06
  Speaker: with habit.
• 9:08
  Speaker: And those are two completely different things, right?
• 9:11
  Speaker: So, um, just to start off with a stupid example, hey, we always
• 9:17
  Speaker: have ritual practice on Mondays.
• 9:19
  Speaker: Uh, yeah, that's a great example.
• 9:22
  Speaker: Or we always have pizza on
• 9:24
  Speaker: Friday nights, you know, like
• 9:25
  Speaker: those are not, those are not
• 9:27
  Speaker: traditions.
• 9:28
  Speaker: We're not transmitting anything.
• 9:29
  Speaker: We're not transmitting our standards.
• 9:31
  Speaker: We're not transmitting our values.
• 9:33
  Speaker: John Rock absolutely needs a creamy keyboard because his
• 9:36
  Speaker: keyboard is loud as hell.
• 9:37
  Speaker: Um, yes.
• 9:39
  Speaker: Mechanical.
• 9:40
  Speaker: Um, you know, having pizza on the first Friday of every month
• 9:45
  Speaker: is not a tradition.
• 9:47
  Speaker: It's not.
• 9:47
  Speaker: I don't care how delicious the
• 9:49
  Speaker: pizza is or how many people show
• 9:51
  Speaker: up.
• 9:51
  Speaker: You're not imparting anything of value in that.
• 9:54
  Speaker: You're.
• 9:54
  Speaker: That's a habit.
• 9:55
  Speaker: Right.
• 9:55
  Speaker: So like I said, I think we, we use the word tradition way too
• 9:58
  Speaker: loosely and we use it as a catch all for many things because
• 10:03
  Speaker: we're afraid of that other word that you brought up tonight, you
• 10:06
  Speaker: know, innovation or, or dare I say, change, you know.
• 10:10
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 10:11
  Speaker: Um, yeah.
• 10:12
  Speaker: So I thought of some other synonyms too, because.
• 10:18
  Speaker: So let's go back to the original definition here.
• 10:20
  Speaker: A belief, custom or way of
• 10:23
  Speaker: behaving that is passed from one
• 10:24
  Speaker: generation to the next within a
• 10:25
  Speaker: group or society doesn't have to
• 10:27
  Speaker: be age generation, but could be,
• 10:29
  Speaker: you know, from a predecessor to
• 10:30
  Speaker: a successor.
• 10:31
  Speaker: And, um, I got, I get wrapped around the word behaving and you
• 10:37
  Speaker: may have heard me say that, um, the, uh, my favorite definition
• 10:42
  Speaker: of culture because we talked a lot about large culture.
• 10:46
  Speaker: How is culture different or similar to tradition?
• 10:49
  Speaker: There's probably a Venn diagram in there.
• 10:51
  Speaker: My favorite definition of culture is the set of repeated
• 10:56
  Speaker: behaviors of an organization.
• 10:59
  Speaker: That doesn't imply it's good or bad because you can have
• 11:03
  Speaker: negative culture, you can have bad culture, right?
• 11:05
  Speaker: You can have positive culture, right?
• 11:07
  Speaker: So if the if the point of
• 11:08
  Speaker: tradition is to pass down
• 11:11
  Speaker: beliefs, customs, or way of
• 11:13
  Speaker: behaving.
• 11:15
  Speaker: You could also be passing down bad traditions as well.
• 11:19
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 11:20
  Speaker: Um, and a culture again, that doesn't necessarily imply the,
• 11:24
  Speaker: uh, the belief system.
• 11:25
  Speaker: It just means that's the way that things have been done.
• 11:29
  Speaker: No, I think the difference, the difference between the two is,
• 11:32
  Speaker: is to your point, is the value of the thing, right?
• 11:36
  Speaker: So to your point, you can you
• 11:37
  Speaker: can pass on a negative culture,
• 11:40
  Speaker: um, depending on where you live
• 11:42
  Speaker: in the United States, that
• 11:43
  Speaker: happens de facto by default,
• 11:45
  Speaker: right?
• 11:45
  Speaker: Just by birth.
• 11:46
  Speaker: Um or what zip code you live in.
• 11:48
  Speaker: Uh, you get these cultures that
• 11:50
  Speaker: pass on things that are outmoded
• 11:52
  Speaker: or not really super awesome
• 11:53
  Speaker: anymore.
• 11:54
  Speaker: Um, but like I said, I think that the difference between
• 11:58
  Speaker: those is in, in tradition, you're passing something on
• 12:02
  Speaker: because you believe the thing that you're trying to pass on
• 12:06
  Speaker: has value of some sort.
• 12:08
  Speaker: Yeah, yeah, I like it.
• 12:12
  Speaker: Um, good.
• 12:13
  Speaker: Cuz I said it.
• 12:15
  Speaker: That is good.
• 12:16
  Speaker: So let's talk about values then.
• 12:19
  Speaker: Um, because if, if something is,
• 12:21
  Speaker: is worth passing down, then it
• 12:23
  Speaker: should have intrinsic value as
• 12:25
  Speaker: well.
• 12:27
  Speaker: Um good definition of values is something that has worth
• 12:31
  Speaker: importance or usefulness to a person or group.
• 12:35
  Speaker: And so the easiest thing to think of value is what's the
• 12:37
  Speaker: price of this.
• 12:38
  Speaker: How much does this cost that is worth.
• 12:40
  Speaker: But it gets harder when you get
• 12:42
  Speaker: to intangibles like, uh, belief
• 12:45
  Speaker: systems, right.
• 12:47
  Speaker: Your values, your principles, the, the things you stand for,
• 12:50
  Speaker: the things you don't, um, the moral lessons have value that we
• 12:54
  Speaker: teach in the fraternity.
• 12:56
  Speaker: And so back, back to tradition, right?
• 12:58
  Speaker: We should be carrying those
• 13:00
  Speaker: values down to the next
• 13:01
  Speaker: generation.
• 13:02
  Speaker: Well, I think they do have cost,
• 13:04
  Speaker: you know, even if it's not
• 13:05
  Speaker: dollars and cents, um, you know,
• 13:07
  Speaker: there, there is a, there is a
• 13:09
  Speaker: value in, for lack of a better
• 13:11
  Speaker: term, the sweat equity of a
• 13:13
  Speaker: thing.
• 13:13
  Speaker: Right?
• 13:13
  Speaker: Like how much did something cost
• 13:14
  Speaker: me to learn it, to achieve it,
• 13:17
  Speaker: to strive to it, to be a part of
• 13:19
  Speaker: it?
• 13:19
  Speaker: Um, that kind of thing.
• 13:20
  Speaker: We don't normally, we don't
• 13:22
  Speaker: normally look at that, that
• 13:23
  Speaker: sweat equity as a positive,
• 13:25
  Speaker: right?
• 13:25
  Speaker: Like a lot of times we look at it as like, Holy crap, it took
• 13:27
  Speaker: me so many months to learn this lecture or holy crap, you know,
• 13:31
  Speaker: why do we have to do these things a certain way in lodge?
• 13:33
  Speaker: Or why do I have to walk this way?
• 13:35
  Speaker: Or why do I have to dress like this?
• 13:36
  Speaker: You know, we, we always look at it from the negative equity
• 13:40
  Speaker: value of it, which is, which is kind of weird because some of
• 13:42
  Speaker: the things that we're talking about preserving in this
• 13:45
  Speaker: tradition mindset do have value when you think about them
• 13:49
  Speaker: correctly, you know?
• 13:51
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 13:52
  Speaker: So I like that.
• 13:56
  Speaker: Um, and then again, let me
• 13:59
  Speaker: double down on your point about
• 14:01
  Speaker: habits.
• 14:02
  Speaker: Right.
• 14:02
  Speaker: So habits are behaviors.
• 14:05
  Speaker: Uh, and it sounds very close to culture, right?
• 14:07
  Speaker: The set of repeated behaviors of an organization.
• 14:10
  Speaker: Um, but habits are often just
• 14:12
  Speaker: done out of continuity rather
• 14:17
  Speaker: than attention.
• 14:20
  Speaker: Right.
• 14:20
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 14:21
  Speaker: We do things just because it's always done on a Monday or, you
• 14:23
  Speaker: know, we always have pizza Fridays instead of, well, we do,
• 14:28
  Speaker: we have pizza Fridays because there's a deliberate reason why
• 14:32
  Speaker: we're doing this.
• 14:33
  Speaker: You know, rituals versus the meeting.
• 14:36
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 14:36
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 14:37
  Speaker: No, I mean, let's start with
• 14:38
  Speaker: something as cheesy as, you
• 14:40
  Speaker: know, pizza on Lodge night, you
• 14:42
  Speaker: know.
• 14:42
  Speaker: Um.
• 14:42
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 14:44
  Speaker: And let's break that down like a lodge meeting on the second
• 14:47
  Speaker: Tuesday of every month.
• 14:49
  Speaker: Is it tradition or is it habit or administrative convention?
• 14:54
  Speaker: Right.
• 14:54
  Speaker: So let's look at that.
• 14:56
  Speaker: Um, but now let's talk about dinner.
• 14:58
  Speaker: You know, having dinner before
• 14:59
  Speaker: lodge could be either it could
• 15:01
  Speaker: be tradition or it could be
• 15:02
  Speaker: habit.
• 15:03
  Speaker: If dinner is just, well, we've, we've ordered pizza at, you
• 15:06
  Speaker: know, five thirty and it gets delivered by six.
• 15:09
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 15:09
  Speaker: Um, that's a habit.
• 15:10
  Speaker: There's, there's no value to impart there.
• 15:12
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 15:13
  Speaker: Same thing for like why we do
• 15:14
  Speaker: things on a certain day of the
• 15:16
  Speaker: month, right?
• 15:18
  Speaker: It's not tradition that your
• 15:19
  Speaker: lodge meets on the first and
• 15:20
  Speaker: third Monday.
• 15:21
  Speaker: It's that that has no value in itself that that day contains no
• 15:26
  Speaker: special magical value unless you chose it for other reasons.
• 15:31
  Speaker: But in general, a day of the
• 15:34
  Speaker: week does not hold the cultural
• 15:36
  Speaker: benefit that you're trying to
• 15:37
  Speaker: pass down to the next
• 15:38
  Speaker: generation.
• 15:39
  Speaker: It's administrivia, right?
• 15:40
  Speaker: Except for those very few lodges.
• 15:43
  Speaker: Um, I know there's lodges out there.
• 15:44
  Speaker: I know there's one in D.C. that meets on the solstices and
• 15:49
  Speaker: equinoxes, so they only meet four times a year.
• 15:51
  Speaker: And those days are special.
• 15:52
  Speaker: And those days move around the
• 15:54
  Speaker: calendar, but they've chosen
• 15:55
  Speaker: them.
• 15:56
  Speaker: So I would say that is more tradition.
• 15:59
  Speaker: Is that habit or is that tradition?
• 16:00
  Speaker: Yeah, that's definitely deliberate tradition, right?
• 16:05
  Speaker: Because that date has a value to the members of that lodge.
• 16:08
  Speaker: Right.
• 16:09
  Speaker: So absolutely.
• 16:10
  Speaker: Um, but the other side of that coin is right, going back to the
• 16:13
  Speaker: pizza, um, which is a habit, I don't care how delicious the
• 16:17
  Speaker: pizza is, it is delicious.
• 16:19
  Speaker: But you know, if you now say, hey, before lodge, we have
• 16:23
  Speaker: dinner and what we're doing there is we're deliberately
• 16:26
  Speaker: gathering at a common table because we want to espouse
• 16:30
  Speaker: fellowship, we want to espouse hospitality, and we want to
• 16:33
  Speaker: break bread together.
• 16:35
  Speaker: Um, and we use that as, I don't want to say like team building,
• 16:38
  Speaker: but fraternity building than the practice of having dinner
• 16:42
  Speaker: becomes tradition, because it now carries a certain meaning
• 16:45
  Speaker: and weight and value to it.
• 16:47
  Speaker: Right?
• 16:47
  Speaker: So that's the difference.
• 16:50
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 16:51
  Speaker: I like when my kids get home.
• 16:54
  Speaker: It seems to happen like once a year.
• 16:56
  Speaker: They'll bring home the little
• 16:58
  Speaker: exercise, the homework, where
• 16:59
  Speaker: it's like, what are some of your
• 17:01
  Speaker: family traditions?
• 17:03
  Speaker: It's usually around the holidays, right?
• 17:05
  Speaker: Um, but it's, it's fun to see my kids work through.
• 17:10
  Speaker: Well, like, why do we do these things?
• 17:12
  Speaker: Right.
• 17:12
  Speaker: Like I always enjoy, you know, um, I don't know, I'm just gonna
• 17:18
  Speaker: make it up shopping together before Thanksgiving, right?
• 17:20
  Speaker: Something like that.
• 17:21
  Speaker: And, and I get them to unpack
• 17:23
  Speaker: that a little bit and say, well,
• 17:24
  Speaker: why, why do you look forward to
• 17:25
  Speaker: that?
• 17:25
  Speaker: Well, I like it because we're
• 17:26
  Speaker: hanging out together and we're
• 17:27
  Speaker: spending time together and we're
• 17:29
  Speaker: doing a joint activity together
• 17:30
  Speaker: and we give a gift together,
• 17:32
  Speaker: right?
• 17:32
  Speaker: So it helps them connect the meaning to the practice And I
• 17:39
  Speaker: gotta, I gotta.
• 17:40
  Speaker: I learned something new that
• 17:41
  Speaker: totally throws my kids for a
• 17:43
  Speaker: loop.
• 17:43
  Speaker: And I've been doing this forever my entire life.
• 17:46
  Speaker: So, um.
• 17:47
  Speaker: On New Year's Eve when my mom's
• 17:50
  Speaker: here and she's usually, you
• 17:51
  Speaker: know, here for the holidays, um,
• 17:55
  Speaker: my kids still don't understand
• 17:56
  Speaker: it.
• 17:57
  Speaker: Um, but around eleven thirty,
• 17:59
  Speaker: she comes around if the kids are
• 18:00
  Speaker: still awake and now they're
• 18:01
  Speaker: older, so they're mostly awake
• 18:02
  Speaker: now.
• 18:02
  Speaker: Um, she will walk around and give you a bowl with twelve
• 18:05
  Speaker: grapes in it.
• 18:05
  Speaker: Yep.
• 18:06
  Speaker: And I, like I said, I, this is,
• 18:08
  Speaker: this is habit and tradition for
• 18:10
  Speaker: me, right?
• 18:10
  Speaker: It's just muscle memory.
• 18:11
  Speaker: Like if I don't have twelve
• 18:12
  Speaker: grapes there, I'll lose my, my
• 18:13
  Speaker: mind.
• 18:13
  Speaker: Right.
• 18:14
  Speaker: Uh, but my kids are like, why do you gotta do this?
• 18:16
  Speaker: I don't want to eat twelve grapes.
• 18:17
  Speaker: There's so many grapes.
• 18:18
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 18:19
  Speaker: She doesn't buy like the tiny
• 18:20
  Speaker: little crappy, you know, Walmart
• 18:23
  Speaker: grapes.
• 18:24
  Speaker: She buys like the Whole Foods,
• 18:25
  Speaker: you know, GMO DNA all like
• 18:28
  Speaker: they're like that freaking big
• 18:29
  Speaker: asteroid impact.
• 18:30
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 18:31
  Speaker: Um, but you gotta eat them before the clock strikes twelve.
• 18:34
  Speaker: And but yeah, my kids are like, why do we need to do this?
• 18:37
  Speaker: You know we don't understand it and explain it to him.
• 18:40
  Speaker: It's like because in my mom's
• 18:42
  Speaker: culture, it brings you
• 18:43
  Speaker: prosperity and good luck for the
• 18:44
  Speaker: new year.
• 18:45
  Speaker: They're like, okay, but why grapes?
• 18:46
  Speaker: Like, why can't we have gummy bears?
• 18:47
  Speaker: And I'm like, shut up.
• 18:49
  Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:51
  Speaker: Now I'm thinking of all these other rituals we do because we
• 18:53
  Speaker: do similar, like New Year's Day.
• 18:54
  Speaker: We do the, um, Black Eyed Peas.
• 18:57
  Speaker: You have to eat black eyed peas for good luck.
• 18:59
  Speaker: I don't yeah.
• 19:00
  Speaker: And then it gets into all the superstition.
• 19:02
  Speaker: We're not talking superstition and tradition.
• 19:04
  Speaker: Well, maybe we are, I don't know.
• 19:05
  Speaker: We'll see.
• 19:06
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 19:06
  Speaker: Some could be.
• 19:07
  Speaker: There could be some overlap there.
• 19:09
  Speaker: Um, but in a Masonic context, we
• 19:14
  Speaker: have traditions beyond what you
• 19:17
  Speaker: probably initially think on the
• 19:19
  Speaker: surface level.
• 19:19
  Speaker: Okay.
• 19:20
  Speaker: So yeah, we have, we have traditions of that we've, you
• 19:24
  Speaker: know, always, uh, have a strawberry night at, you know,
• 19:28
  Speaker: this time of year or we have, um, we always go to this, um,
• 19:34
  Speaker: restaurant because, you know.
• 19:36
  Speaker: Tyler so and so from fifty years ago started that restaurant.
• 19:39
  Speaker: So we've been going there ever since.
• 19:42
  Speaker: So those are the surface level ones.
• 19:44
  Speaker: But when you look at the gestalt
• 19:46
  Speaker: of Freemasonry, we have a ton of
• 19:49
  Speaker: beliefs and practices and
• 19:52
  Speaker: customs and ways of behaving
• 19:54
  Speaker: that we're passing down
• 19:55
  Speaker: deliberately.
• 19:57
  Speaker: And so how do we unpack that and
• 20:00
  Speaker: determine what are some things
• 20:02
  Speaker: that were truly, deliberately
• 20:04
  Speaker: trying to pass down as far as
• 20:08
  Speaker: lodge culture, as far as regalia
• 20:11
  Speaker: and artwork and practices and
• 20:14
  Speaker: moral instruction to, to name a
• 20:16
  Speaker: few.
• 20:17
  Speaker: There's a lot more that we could talk about.
• 20:19
  Speaker: Those are those are traditions worth keeping.
• 20:22
  Speaker: And then what are those things that the bad were?
• 20:26
  Speaker: The opposite of tradition is innovation.
• 20:31
  Speaker: Now, although we do know it is
• 20:33
  Speaker: not up to any one man to make
• 20:35
  Speaker: innovations in masonry, except
• 20:37
  Speaker: for all the innovations we've
• 20:39
  Speaker: done since since the third
• 20:40
  Speaker: degree.
• 20:41
  Speaker: Right?
• 20:42
  Speaker: The third degree is an innovation.
• 20:44
  Speaker: Spoiler alert.
• 20:45
  Speaker: Yes.
• 20:45
  Speaker: Right.
• 20:46
  Speaker: Um, but there are things that we hold sacred that probably aren't
• 20:55
  Speaker: technically traditions or, or, or are up for, uh, renewal.
• 21:02
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 21:02
  Speaker: I mean, there, there's got to be a litmus test, right?
• 21:05
  Speaker: Because, you know, the, the big
• 21:07
  Speaker: thing and we've, we've said it
• 21:09
  Speaker: on this show as, as long as I've
• 21:10
  Speaker: been alive.
• 21:11
  Speaker: Um, when you hear the words, we've always done it this way.
• 21:16
  Speaker: That is probably the worst defense of tradition that you
• 21:21
  Speaker: can possibly have.
• 21:22
  Speaker: Right?
• 21:22
  Speaker: So just because we've done
• 21:23
  Speaker: something this way does not mean
• 21:25
  Speaker: that, number one, it's a
• 21:26
  Speaker: tradition.
• 21:27
  Speaker: And number two, that you're defending that tradition.
• 21:29
  Speaker: So to, to answer your your train
• 21:31
  Speaker: of thought there, it's before we
• 21:35
  Speaker: go down the rabbit hole of what
• 21:36
  Speaker: traditions are worth preserving,
• 21:38
  Speaker: let's start to distinguish
• 21:39
  Speaker: what's a tradition and what
• 21:41
  Speaker: isn't right.
• 21:41
  Speaker: So.
• 21:42
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 21:42
  Speaker: I think for me, the question is you have something.
• 21:47
  Speaker: It's your tradition or a habit.
• 21:49
  Speaker: You're trying to decide which
• 21:49
  Speaker: one it is and whether it's
• 21:50
  Speaker: preservable.
• 21:51
  Speaker: I think the easiest question to
• 21:52
  Speaker: ask is why are you trying to
• 21:55
  Speaker: preserve it?
• 21:56
  Speaker: Oh yeah.
• 21:56
  Speaker: That's the benefit in preserving it.
• 21:58
  Speaker: So going back to the dumb one,
• 21:59
  Speaker: you know, pizza on Lodge night,
• 22:01
  Speaker: why are we trying to preserve
• 22:03
  Speaker: this tradition?
• 22:04
  Speaker: Is there any going back to the definition you gave, is there
• 22:07
  Speaker: any value is, you know, is anything being passed on that is
• 22:12
  Speaker: from one generation to another that is of benefit pizza night.
• 22:17
  Speaker: Go ahead.
• 22:18
  Speaker: No, no. Finish your thought.
• 22:19
  Speaker: I was gonna say exciting pizza
• 22:20
  Speaker: night is a no. So you know, so I
• 22:23
  Speaker: think the why is a good litmus
• 22:24
  Speaker: test.
• 22:25
  Speaker: Like why do we feel the need to pass this on?
• 22:27
  Speaker: And if your answer is because we've always done it this way,
• 22:29
  Speaker: it's a crap answer.
• 22:30
  Speaker: So you need to find another answer.
• 22:32
  Speaker: Okay.
• 22:32
  Speaker: so there's a great philosophical concept to to document and
• 22:38
  Speaker: outline exactly what Joe said.
• 22:40
  Speaker: Have you ever heard of Chester Chester Spence?
• 22:44
  Speaker: I have.
• 22:45
  Speaker: Chesterton's fence is a principle that reminds us to
• 22:48
  Speaker: look before we leap, to understand, before we act.
• 22:50
  Speaker: It's a cautionary reminder to
• 22:51
  Speaker: understand why something the way
• 22:53
  Speaker: it is before meddling in a
• 22:56
  Speaker: change.
• 22:57
  Speaker: The principle comes from a parable by G.K.
• 22:59
  Speaker: Chesterton, which goes something like this.
• 23:02
  Speaker: There exists, in such a case a certain institution or law, let
• 23:05
  Speaker: us say, for the sake of simplicity, a fence or a gate
• 23:08
  Speaker: erected across from a road, the more modern type of reformer
• 23:12
  Speaker: goes gaily up to it and says, I don't see the use of this.
• 23:15
  Speaker: Let's clear it away.
• 23:17
  Speaker: To which the more intelligent
• 23:18
  Speaker: type of reformer will do well to
• 23:20
  Speaker: answer.
• 23:20
  Speaker: If you don't see the use of it,
• 23:22
  Speaker: I certainly won't let you clear
• 23:23
  Speaker: it away.
• 23:24
  Speaker: Go away and think.
• 23:25
  Speaker: Then when you can come back and
• 23:27
  Speaker: tell me why that you see the use
• 23:28
  Speaker: of it, then I'll let you tear it
• 23:30
  Speaker: down.
• 23:31
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 23:31
  Speaker: So yeah, the, the Tldr on that is don't remove a fence until
• 23:36
  Speaker: you know why it was put up in the first place.
• 23:37
  Speaker: And then make a choice, make an educated choice of why you're
• 23:42
  Speaker: changing something, not just change for change's sake, right?
• 23:44
  Speaker: Innovation for innovation sake.
• 23:45
  Speaker: I am not a fan of that.
• 23:47
  Speaker: I'm not like, well, we just need to innovate.
• 23:49
  Speaker: We need to progress forward.
• 23:50
  Speaker: Uh, let's know why or what we're changing when we do that.
• 23:55
  Speaker: Um, I'm a big stickler.
• 23:56
  Speaker: Water wings and lodge.
• 23:58
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 23:58
  Speaker: So I, that's funny.
• 24:00
  Speaker: I, I do a lot of this with work.
• 24:02
  Speaker: I'm very forward leaning, but, um, those who know me well know
• 24:06
  Speaker: I am a rule follower and, and so I'll often get, you know, even
• 24:10
  Speaker: if I'm trying to push ideas forward at work, people are
• 24:13
  Speaker: like, well, you can't do that because this rule or regulation
• 24:16
  Speaker: says you can't.
• 24:17
  Speaker: And I'm like, actually, I went all the way back to where that
• 24:21
  Speaker: law rules written down.
• 24:22
  Speaker: And it says, you can't, you absolutely can do it.
• 24:24
  Speaker: Right.
• 24:24
  Speaker: So I, I'm the one who traces Chesterton's fence all the way
• 24:28
  Speaker: back to why that fence was put up in the first place and then
• 24:31
  Speaker: say, let's go, let's, let's, let's have that conversation.
• 24:34
  Speaker: But we're not making an uneducated decision about what
• 24:37
  Speaker: we should change.
• 24:38
  Speaker: Um, so, uh, Chesterton's fence.
• 24:42
  Speaker: Go look that up.
• 24:42
  Speaker: It's, uh, it's pretty neat.
• 24:44
  Speaker: Um, but that's, that should be your litmus test to, to your
• 24:48
  Speaker: point, Joe, is, um.
• 24:52
  Speaker: The, the, the corollary to that,
• 24:55
  Speaker: uh, as I was doing some
• 24:56
  Speaker: research, I, the one word stuck
• 24:57
  Speaker: out to me too about the pros and
• 25:01
  Speaker: cons of traditions, especially
• 25:03
  Speaker: when you're trying to change
• 25:04
  Speaker: them.
• 25:05
  Speaker: And a word came up that, um, it hits at the emotions, not the
• 25:10
  Speaker: logic, which is fear.
• 25:12
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 25:13
  Speaker: We, there is so much comfort in habit.
• 25:16
  Speaker: There's so much comfort in culture.
• 25:18
  Speaker: There's so much comfort in tradition that sometimes we're
• 25:22
  Speaker: misplacing the, the comfort with, you know, the why we're
• 25:29
  Speaker: doing it in the first place.
• 25:31
  Speaker: Yep.
• 25:32
  Speaker: No, I agree.
• 25:33
  Speaker: I mean, it's it's the old adage, right?
• 25:35
  Speaker: We're creatures of habit.
• 25:37
  Speaker: We enjoy habit because we find comfort in it, even if that
• 25:40
  Speaker: habit is stupid and annoying and dumb or outdated, we're still
• 25:46
  Speaker: going to prefer that, right?
• 25:49
  Speaker: Because it's the known right.
• 25:50
  Speaker: And, and we as, as human beings, we love the known whether the
• 25:54
  Speaker: known is good or not, as opposed to the unknown.
• 25:58
  Speaker: Right?
• 25:58
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 26:00
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 26:00
  Speaker: It's just, it's fascinating because we have an emotional
• 26:03
  Speaker: response to something different, even if it's the most logical
• 26:06
  Speaker: thing to do.
• 26:07
  Speaker: Like our our emotions tend to have more control over our
• 26:11
  Speaker: actions than, than our logic.
• 26:14
  Speaker: It's just that's just human nature.
• 26:16
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 26:18
  Speaker: Um, okay.
• 26:19
  Speaker: So after we've determined
• 26:23
  Speaker: Chesterton's fence and said,
• 26:25
  Speaker: okay, we, we know why we Want to
• 26:27
  Speaker: change something?
• 26:29
  Speaker: Um, let me start with what are
• 26:31
  Speaker: the benefits of keeping
• 26:33
  Speaker: tradition?
• 26:35
  Speaker: Well, we can we can stay in the Masonic context.
• 26:38
  Speaker: We could, it could be general, but let's let's just keep it as
• 26:40
  Speaker: a Masonic tradition.
• 26:42
  Speaker: What's the what are the benefits of keeping Masonic traditions?
• 26:45
  Speaker: Um, because we've always done it that way.
• 26:48
  Speaker: Obviously.
• 26:49
  Speaker: That is that's a clear indicator of why we should continue to do
• 26:52
  Speaker: that until twenty forty.
• 26:54
  Speaker: Yes, yes.
• 26:55
  Speaker: So for fourteen more years, my real answer is, um, because
• 27:00
  Speaker: there's a sense for me, there's a sense of continuity, right?
• 27:04
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 27:04
  Speaker: Um, new members come in, old
• 27:07
  Speaker: members die or diminish or empty
• 27:09
  Speaker: or whatever.
• 27:11
  Speaker: Um culture of a lodge will change over time.
• 27:14
  Speaker: Um the building you meet in will change over time.
• 27:16
  Speaker: And every year or two the officers change.
• 27:19
  Speaker: Um, but traditions are what give
• 27:22
  Speaker: the institution of masonry, um
• 27:26
  Speaker: That identity that you can
• 27:28
  Speaker: recognize, right?
• 27:29
  Speaker: Despite all of the change that happens every ten shared
• 27:32
  Speaker: identity for sure.
• 27:33
  Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
• 27:35
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 27:36
  Speaker: I feel like you want more.
• 27:37
  Speaker: Um, well, yeah, I mean, just just follow through.
• 27:39
  Speaker: We have, um, shared identity,
• 27:42
  Speaker: shared culture, um, shared
• 27:45
  Speaker: structure, right?
• 27:47
  Speaker: These are all things as we're trying to pass them down.
• 27:49
  Speaker: Um, well the shared identity one is, is I wouldn't jumble that
• 27:53
  Speaker: with the others because, you know, shared identity tradition
• 27:57
  Speaker: is what allows you or I to go to a lodge in Calcutta or Seattle.
• 28:03
  Speaker: Yes, yes.
• 28:04
  Speaker: Denver.
• 28:05
  Speaker: You know, and there's that common thread because of
• 28:08
  Speaker: tradition that allows us to experience things in a similar
• 28:13
  Speaker: way and find comfort in those things because we experience
• 28:16
  Speaker: them similarly and know what to expect, you know, regardless of
• 28:19
  Speaker: where we go.
• 28:20
  Speaker: I agree.
• 28:21
  Speaker: Yep.
• 28:22
  Speaker: And that's what, um, our listener says tradition is also
• 28:29
  Speaker: the glue of connection that you can travel around, and you have
• 28:32
  Speaker: that mystic tie because you have a shared common experience.
• 28:35
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 28:36
  Speaker: That is a perfect reason to keep tradition.
• 28:39
  Speaker: If we all threw out our ritual books and just came up with any
• 28:42
  Speaker: old ritual that we wanted.
• 28:46
  Speaker: We would not have a tight knit, tight knit fraternity.
• 28:50
  Speaker: What is this, Europe?
• 28:52
  Speaker: What are we talking about here?
• 28:53
  Speaker: Well, we actually have three
• 28:54
  Speaker: different emulation style
• 28:56
  Speaker: rituals.
• 28:56
  Speaker: Yeah, you just get to pick which one you want.
• 28:58
  Speaker: You have forty eight different rituals, a plethora of pinatas.
• 29:03
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 29:05
  Speaker: Right.
• 29:06
  Speaker: Um, yes.
• 29:09
  Speaker: Because we, we want to keep those things.
• 29:11
  Speaker: And, and that's again, where I think that fear comes from.
• 29:14
  Speaker: As soon as you start to say,
• 29:15
  Speaker: well, maybe could we change
• 29:16
  Speaker: this?
• 29:19
  Speaker: Psychologically.
• 29:20
  Speaker: Right.
• 29:21
  Speaker: Change Your body has reaction to change the same way they do at
• 29:27
  Speaker: death, because you're losing something when you're changing.
• 29:32
  Speaker: And many people equate the
• 29:35
  Speaker: emotional state of change to
• 29:39
  Speaker: loss.
• 29:39
  Speaker: They're losing something in this equation.
• 29:41
  Speaker: And that's uncomfortable because you go through the five stages
• 29:45
  Speaker: of grief, sometimes even for something as simple as, oh, we
• 29:48
  Speaker: have to move our lodge night to a different day of the week.
• 29:52
  Speaker: What do you mean?
• 29:52
  Speaker: What else would I do on Monday nights now?
• 29:55
  Speaker: You know, and it's.
• 29:57
  Speaker: I got my kids.
• 29:59
  Speaker: Oh my God.
• 29:59
  Speaker: What?
• 30:00
  Speaker: What does that mean?
• 30:00
  Speaker: Like, I've never seen my kids on Monday.
• 30:02
  Speaker: That's ridiculous.
• 30:04
  Speaker: No, no, I think it's yeah.
• 30:06
  Speaker: No that's that's super important.
• 30:08
  Speaker: And I think that, um, as you
• 30:10
  Speaker: were talking, I was just
• 30:11
  Speaker: thinking about something so
• 30:13
  Speaker: paradoxical.
• 30:14
  Speaker: Right.
• 30:15
  Speaker: And, and that there's inefficiency in a lot of the
• 30:18
  Speaker: traditions we have as Masons, um, like what there is, you
• 30:22
  Speaker: know, so let's bring one up that we hear all the time.
• 30:26
  Speaker: You know, why do I have to memorize ritual when I can just
• 30:29
  Speaker: read it out of a book?
• 30:30
  Speaker: Right.
• 30:30
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 30:31
  Speaker: Um, why do I have to dress formally when, you know, jeans
• 30:36
  Speaker: and flip flops will be so much work for me, right?
• 30:39
  Speaker: You know, why go through the trouble of a ritualistic opening
• 30:44
  Speaker: when somebody could just, you know, bang a gavel and say, hey,
• 30:48
  Speaker: let's get it on.
• 30:49
  Speaker: And the meeting has begun, right?
• 30:51
  Speaker: So they're inefficient.
• 30:53
  Speaker: All these things I talked about
• 30:54
  Speaker: and they, they, they speak
• 30:56
  Speaker: against comfort.
• 30:57
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 30:58
  Speaker: But there's value in doing every
• 31:00
  Speaker: single one of the things that we
• 31:01
  Speaker: talked about.
• 31:02
  Speaker: Yeah, it's kind of weird.
• 31:04
  Speaker: No, I mean, you got me thinking about tons of stuff.
• 31:07
  Speaker: The thing that jumps to the top of mine is, um, sometimes
• 31:13
  Speaker: deliberate friction in a product makes the user enjoy it more.
• 31:19
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 31:21
  Speaker: And so I'm trying to think of some, some examples.
• 31:23
  Speaker: Um, how about what's that thing I just unboxing videos.
• 31:31
  Speaker: You ever, you ever seen you go
• 31:32
  Speaker: on YouTube and you watch these
• 31:33
  Speaker: unboxing videos and you're like,
• 31:35
  Speaker: my kids do yes or no. Even
• 31:37
  Speaker: related a better example, my
• 31:39
  Speaker: kids, they're, they're mostly
• 31:41
  Speaker: girls.
• 31:41
  Speaker: And when they were younger, they had these, these toys called,
• 31:45
  Speaker: um, well pop, they're pop dolls.
• 31:51
  Speaker: And it was a plastic ball about the size of a softball, but you
• 31:55
  Speaker: had to go unwrap it layer after layer after layer.
• 31:58
  Speaker: And it was hard work.
• 32:01
  Speaker: And you'd unwrap a layer and there'd be a little tiny bag and
• 32:04
  Speaker: you'd open the bag and there'd be like a pair of little doll
• 32:06
  Speaker: shoes, and then you'd have to go work and undo another layer.
• 32:10
  Speaker: And it's like, who in their right mind would design a
• 32:12
  Speaker: product that would take so long to get to the actual toy?
• 32:17
  Speaker: Right?
• 32:18
  Speaker: They loved it because it was the
• 32:21
  Speaker: friction of the work to unwrap
• 32:25
  Speaker: this thing, take this thing, the
• 32:27
  Speaker: discovery, every step along the
• 32:28
  Speaker: way of all the new pieces,
• 32:29
  Speaker: accessories.
• 32:31
  Speaker: They found so much more value in that than if they had just
• 32:33
  Speaker: ripped it from the cardstock and started playing with the doll.
• 32:36
  Speaker: No. Yeah, I actually caught it
• 32:38
  Speaker: from from the, the opposite side
• 32:40
  Speaker: of like, I'd watch my son watch
• 32:42
  Speaker: unboxing videos.
• 32:43
  Speaker: Yeah, you watch him nonstop, but
• 32:46
  Speaker: the entire time he was watching
• 32:47
  Speaker: them.
• 32:48
  Speaker: Oh my God, open it already.
• 32:50
  Speaker: Oh use a knife.
• 32:51
  Speaker: Like ooh.
• 32:52
  Speaker: Like I'd hear him complain the entire time.
• 32:53
  Speaker: And I'm like, is that enjoyable?
• 32:56
  Speaker: Because I'm losing my mind right now listening to you.
• 32:58
  Speaker: And I want to throw your phone across the room.
• 33:00
  Speaker: But he would spend a lot of time watching them, you know, just
• 33:04
  Speaker: one right after another.
• 33:05
  Speaker: And I'm like, okay, you definitely enjoy it.
• 33:07
  Speaker: But there is definitely some tension there as you're watching
• 33:10
  Speaker: that video from start to finish.
• 33:11
  Speaker: You know, it's, it's it's interesting.
• 33:13
  Speaker: It's paradoxical.
• 33:14
  Speaker: It was not, it was, it was uh lol lol dolls Uh.
• 33:19
  Speaker: LOL.
• 33:19
  Speaker: Surprise!
• 33:20
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 33:21
  Speaker: And so they come in these little
• 33:22
  Speaker: balls and you just have to
• 33:24
  Speaker: unwrap layer after layer after
• 33:26
  Speaker: layer just to get to these,
• 33:27
  Speaker: these little plastic baby doll
• 33:29
  Speaker: things.
• 33:30
  Speaker: Yes.
• 33:30
  Speaker: It's so much trash, so much waste.
• 33:33
  Speaker: I'm going to send you so many for Christmas.
• 33:35
  Speaker: Oh my gosh.
• 33:36
  Speaker: I trust me, I've got enough plastic to, I don't know, uh,
• 33:41
  Speaker: kill a whale.
• 33:42
  Speaker: But anyway, yeah, so friction is good.
• 33:45
  Speaker: But like you said, it's waste.
• 33:46
  Speaker: But it's, it's intentional
• 33:49
  Speaker: because we as a society have
• 33:51
  Speaker: chosen to preserve that friction
• 33:55
  Speaker: by design.
• 33:56
  Speaker: Like we, we find that to be sacred.
• 33:59
  Speaker: And we're not going to innovate on that because we find that
• 34:04
  Speaker: there's value in it.
• 34:05
  Speaker: It adheres to our cultural values of a fraternity.
• 34:09
  Speaker: Unless, you know, you're a
• 34:11
  Speaker: grandmaster and want to do a one
• 34:12
  Speaker: day class, then then all bets
• 34:13
  Speaker: are off.
• 34:13
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 34:14
  Speaker: So much value.
• 34:16
  Speaker: Yes.
• 34:16
  Speaker: All the value Value activated.
• 34:21
  Speaker: Okay.
• 34:21
  Speaker: Um, so this is a good question from the chat.
• 34:24
  Speaker: How do you protect lodge tradition or culture the things
• 34:27
  Speaker: you want to protect?
• 34:28
  Speaker: Let's start there.
• 34:29
  Speaker: How do you protect it from being innovated?
• 34:33
  Speaker: From being what?
• 34:33
  Speaker: Innovative?
• 34:34
  Speaker: Innovative?
• 34:35
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 34:36
  Speaker: If someone says, hey, uh, first of all, I got a great idea.
• 34:40
  Speaker: What if we just didn't do those things that we do all the time?
• 34:45
  Speaker: Uh, can we just change that?
• 34:48
  Speaker: Yeah, no, it's a great question.
• 34:51
  Speaker: Um, yeah, no, I think for me, it
• 34:54
  Speaker: goes back to the litmus test,
• 34:55
  Speaker: right?
• 34:55
  Speaker: It's, it's not just answer the why, but teach the why.
• 35:00
  Speaker: Right.
• 35:00
  Speaker: So if we teach the next generation, um, what to do,
• 35:04
  Speaker: stand here where this say this open lodge this way.
• 35:08
  Speaker: Eventually somebody asks why and nobody has an answer, right?
• 35:12
  Speaker: So it's at that point when
• 35:15
  Speaker: tradition can become vulnerable
• 35:17
  Speaker: because yes, it starts to look
• 35:19
  Speaker: arbitrary, right?
• 35:20
  Speaker: So tradition without explanation
• 35:22
  Speaker: goes back into that habit
• 35:23
  Speaker: category, right?
• 35:24
  Speaker: So again, always have the why and then share the why with
• 35:27
  Speaker: people, not just give them the stupid answer of well, because
• 35:31
  Speaker: we've always done it this way.
• 35:32
  Speaker: Yep.
• 35:32
  Speaker: Give them the why.
• 35:33
  Speaker: I think that's the first thing.
• 35:35
  Speaker: And then I think the second
• 35:37
  Speaker: thing is actually practice what
• 35:39
  Speaker: it is we're talking about,
• 35:40
  Speaker: right?
• 35:40
  Speaker: Tradition is not something
• 35:44
  Speaker: that's protected in the lodge
• 35:45
  Speaker: library.
• 35:46
  Speaker: You know, it's protected through use and explanation.
• 35:50
  Speaker: Right?
• 35:50
  Speaker: Right.
• 35:51
  Speaker: You can have beautiful two
• 35:54
  Speaker: hundred year old ritual books
• 35:55
  Speaker: and lodge histories and, and
• 35:57
  Speaker: rules and regulations and things
• 35:59
  Speaker: like that.
• 35:59
  Speaker: But if nobody performs a ritual,
• 36:01
  Speaker: well, if nobody tells those
• 36:03
  Speaker: stories of the lodge or or holds
• 36:06
  Speaker: the dinners or observes the
• 36:07
  Speaker: customs or teaches the
• 36:08
  Speaker: symbolism, you're just
• 36:09
  Speaker: preserving records.
• 36:10
  Speaker: You're not living a tradition.
• 36:12
  Speaker: Right?
• 36:12
  Speaker: So the tradition is something that needs to be lived.
• 36:15
  Speaker: Um, and then I think for me, and this is probably the one I'm a
• 36:18
  Speaker: stickler on the most is if you have a tradition, create and
• 36:23
  Speaker: impart standards around it.
• 36:25
  Speaker: Right?
• 36:25
  Speaker: So yeah, so if something
• 36:28
  Speaker: matters, treat it like it
• 36:30
  Speaker: matters, you know, treat ritual
• 36:32
  Speaker: like it matters if it matters to
• 36:34
  Speaker: you, treat dress and decorum
• 36:35
  Speaker: like those things matter to you
• 36:37
  Speaker: and let your actions back up
• 36:40
  Speaker: your words.
• 36:41
  Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
• 36:42
  Speaker: Um, you know, whatever your lodge considers important
• 36:46
  Speaker: shouldn't depend entirely on who happens to be master that year.
• 36:53
  Speaker: Well said.
• 36:53
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 36:54
  Speaker: So I think those are a good start.
• 36:56
  Speaker: All right.
• 36:56
  Speaker: When oh, look at this.
• 37:00
  Speaker: Almost the words out of my mouth.
• 37:02
  Speaker: How about introducing a new tradition to your lives?
• 37:06
  Speaker: Well, this we'll save this for, uh, final question.
• 37:10
  Speaker: That'll be a good one.
• 37:11
  Speaker: If you were to introduce a new tradition, what would it be?
• 37:13
  Speaker: Fish sticks on Friday instead of pizza.
• 37:15
  Speaker: Hold that thought.
• 37:17
  Speaker: Well, Joe just just gave away the whole.
• 37:20
  Speaker: The whole thing.
• 37:21
  Speaker: Whole shebang.
• 37:22
  Speaker: Um, what I was going was.
• 37:24
  Speaker: Okay.
• 37:26
  Speaker: How would you go about
• 37:28
  Speaker: innovating one of those things
• 37:29
  Speaker: where most people think there
• 37:30
  Speaker: are traditions but don't
• 37:32
  Speaker: innovate.
• 37:33
  Speaker: So. Oh, well.
• 37:34
  Speaker: Good.
• 37:34
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 37:34
  Speaker: Because it is up to no man to innovate in masonry.
• 37:37
  Speaker: But hypothetically speaking, if you were.
• 37:41
  Speaker: Um, I personally know, you know, all joking aside, I know a
• 37:46
  Speaker: handful of brothers that have been frustrated because they
• 37:50
  Speaker: tried to propose a better sometimes just the same way or
• 37:54
  Speaker: the same thing, but a faster or better way of doing it.
• 37:57
  Speaker: And they just get shut down
• 37:59
  Speaker: because of that fear factor from
• 38:01
  Speaker: the past masters and from the
• 38:02
  Speaker: people that have been around a
• 38:03
  Speaker: lot longer.
• 38:04
  Speaker: Um, probably conflating tradition with, with habit.
• 38:09
  Speaker: But you know, we'll chase good
• 38:12
  Speaker: guys and good ideas away from
• 38:14
  Speaker: the fraternity.
• 38:15
  Speaker: If we aren't separating what
• 38:18
  Speaker: truly needs to be protected as
• 38:21
  Speaker: traditions and values from those
• 38:24
  Speaker: things that we could actually
• 38:26
  Speaker: improve upon.
• 38:29
  Speaker: You know what was rattling around in my brain the whole
• 38:31
  Speaker: time you were talking?
• 38:32
  Speaker: What was that music in degrees?
• 38:37
  Speaker: Ooh, that was that was just you
• 38:39
  Speaker: wouldn't think that would be
• 38:40
  Speaker: that controversial.
• 38:42
  Speaker: That was so because it was controversial.
• 38:44
  Speaker: And we've talked about it on the show.
• 38:47
  Speaker: Why it is.
• 38:48
  Speaker: Um, that was the first thing
• 38:49
  Speaker: that stuck into my head when we
• 38:50
  Speaker: were talking about innovating
• 38:52
  Speaker: within tradition.
• 38:53
  Speaker: Right?
• 38:53
  Speaker: So let's pull that one apart and
• 38:55
  Speaker: let's make it jurisdiction
• 38:57
  Speaker: independent, right?
• 38:58
  Speaker: Okay.
• 38:59
  Speaker: Um, we have tradition and you
• 39:02
  Speaker: and I, we both agree our
• 39:03
  Speaker: tradition is performing and
• 39:06
  Speaker: delivering ritual to a certain
• 39:08
  Speaker: standard.
• 39:09
  Speaker: Right.
• 39:10
  Speaker: Guys going through the degrees, there has to be a standard.
• 39:13
  Speaker: Um, I think there should be a standard.
• 39:15
  Speaker: I'm pretty sure you do as well.
• 39:16
  Speaker: Some other people do not.
• 39:17
  Speaker: They just want to get through it.
• 39:18
  Speaker: But there is a standard.
• 39:22
  Speaker: But innovations would be, you know, in that would be, hey,
• 39:26
  Speaker: we're going to do the ritual, but let's futz around with the
• 39:30
  Speaker: lighting, let's add music.
• 39:31
  Speaker: Let's do things to the preparation room.
• 39:34
  Speaker: Um, let's have education before the degree.
• 39:37
  Speaker: Um, let's talk about, let's put
• 39:39
  Speaker: like a, a formal mentoring
• 39:40
  Speaker: program together after the
• 39:42
  Speaker: degree or what do we do after
• 39:43
  Speaker: the degree besides have coffee
• 39:45
  Speaker: and, you know, shake each
• 39:46
  Speaker: other's hands and stuff like
• 39:47
  Speaker: that.
• 39:47
  Speaker: So separating the core of the thing from the delivery of the
• 39:52
  Speaker: thing, I think is a good way to think about innovating.
• 39:55
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 39:55
  Speaker: Without changing the actual tradition.
• 39:57
  Speaker: Right.
• 39:57
  Speaker: So you're still delivering a
• 40:00
  Speaker: really rock star degree, but now
• 40:04
  Speaker: you've got all these things
• 40:05
  Speaker: around it that enhance it, that
• 40:06
  Speaker: are innovations.
• 40:08
  Speaker: Um, right.
• 40:09
  Speaker: That don't change the core tradition itself, right?
• 40:11
  Speaker: They only enhance or make it better.
• 40:13
  Speaker: And then hopefully if that goes
• 40:14
  Speaker: well, that could become your
• 40:16
  Speaker: tradition, right?
• 40:17
  Speaker: It's like, hey, not only do we
• 40:18
  Speaker: do kick ass degrees, we have
• 40:20
  Speaker: lighting, we have music, we
• 40:21
  Speaker: have, um, you know, we treat it
• 40:23
  Speaker: like stagecraft, you know, um,
• 40:25
  Speaker: and it becomes a serious and
• 40:27
  Speaker: solemn thing as opposed to
• 40:29
  Speaker: something you need to get
• 40:30
  Speaker: through to get to the end of the
• 40:31
  Speaker: night.
• 40:32
  Speaker: So yeah, work around the thing that is tradition.
• 40:37
  Speaker: Join me again with the bangers tonight.
• 40:39
  Speaker: It makes me sad to see people go
• 40:40
  Speaker: through the motion during a
• 40:43
  Speaker: degree, but without really
• 40:44
  Speaker: embracing it.
• 40:45
  Speaker: Right?
• 40:46
  Speaker: That's such a robbery of the experience.
• 40:48
  Speaker: Yeah, I agree.
• 40:50
  Speaker: Another thing that popped into
• 40:51
  Speaker: my head is why not resurrect old
• 40:56
  Speaker: innovations?
• 40:57
  Speaker: Oh yeah.
• 40:58
  Speaker: Innovations that time had forgotten.
• 41:00
  Speaker: You know, some of the best, uh, new ideas may actually come from
• 41:05
  Speaker: things that we consider old practices that have been
• 41:07
  Speaker: abandoned for, um, for ease, for time for things like that.
• 41:12
  Speaker: Things like formal festive boards, you know, I was gonna
• 41:15
  Speaker: say even table lodges.
• 41:16
  Speaker: I know there's some
• 41:17
  Speaker: jurisdictions, people I've
• 41:18
  Speaker: talked to, like I don't think we
• 41:20
  Speaker: ever I heard of this thing
• 41:21
  Speaker: called Table Lodge and darn it,
• 41:23
  Speaker: if I went down to my Grand Lodge
• 41:24
  Speaker: and they actually have a whole
• 41:25
  Speaker: ritual for it, like, yeah, yeah,
• 41:27
  Speaker: most like my experience with it,
• 41:30
  Speaker: I had, I had gone to table
• 41:32
  Speaker: lodges and festive boards for
• 41:34
  Speaker: years before I had, uh, become
• 41:36
  Speaker: master.
• 41:37
  Speaker: And, you know, when I threw the
• 41:38
  Speaker: word out, hey, we should have a
• 41:40
  Speaker: table lodge.
• 41:40
  Speaker: Everybody was like, oh, no, we've never done that.
• 41:42
  Speaker: We can't do that and never done that, you know?
• 41:44
  Speaker: So studious, studious.
• 41:46
  Speaker: Wikipedia.
• 41:46
  Speaker: Joe, you know, went into the the secretary's office and I
• 41:50
  Speaker: actually started looking through the old records.
• 41:53
  Speaker: And lo and behold, what did I find in the eighties and the
• 41:55
  Speaker: early nineties, there were minutes, eighteen eighties.
• 41:59
  Speaker: Nineteen what?
• 42:01
  Speaker: Yes.
• 42:02
  Speaker: So yes, during my lifetime, there were table lodges, there
• 42:06
  Speaker: were festive boards.
• 42:07
  Speaker: We have minutes of them.
• 42:08
  Speaker: People showed up.
• 42:10
  Speaker: They showed up in fancy dress like.
• 42:12
  Speaker: And these are the same people that are telling me, oh, no, you
• 42:14
  Speaker: can't do that, you know, because for the last thirty years,
• 42:17
  Speaker: they've had a crappy habit that they've supplanted as tradition.
• 42:21
  Speaker: But, you know, bringing back those old innovations, like I
• 42:26
  Speaker: said, is maybe a good way to dust them off and re innovate.
• 42:30
  Speaker: Did I just make up a word?
• 42:31
  Speaker: Reinnervate.
• 42:32
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 42:32
  Speaker: Reinnervate.
• 42:33
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 42:34
  Speaker: Innovate again.
• 42:36
  Speaker: Innovation squared.
• 42:39
  Speaker: Ooh, that's a good lodge name.
• 42:41
  Speaker: Nice.
• 42:42
  Speaker: Yeah, I like it.
• 42:43
  Speaker: You got me thinking about the lodge.
• 42:44
  Speaker: You do good ritual, but you wear tea bags and flip flops.
• 42:50
  Speaker: You're hurting my head.
• 42:51
  Speaker: Okay, um, I'll even say go so far as to say, um.
• 42:59
  Speaker: If you choose like you can, we can create new traditions.
• 43:05
  Speaker: Um, affinity lodges are a great example of that, right?
• 43:08
  Speaker: Where they can say, um, we are choosing to have a culture of X,
• 43:14
  Speaker: Y, or Z, and we are going to do things differently on purpose
• 43:18
  Speaker: than a typical lodge experience.
• 43:21
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 43:21
  Speaker: Um, again, we're even still
• 43:24
  Speaker: finding out about like
• 43:24
  Speaker: Starfleet, Starfleet Lodge out
• 43:26
  Speaker: of California.
• 43:27
  Speaker: Right.
• 43:28
  Speaker: Joe, I'm surprised you haven't got a dues card yet from them.
• 43:31
  Speaker: I got plenty, buddy.
• 43:33
  Speaker: Um, no, but like I, I think I think the UK has been doing it
• 43:36
  Speaker: far longer than we have.
• 43:37
  Speaker: They have, like, Star Wars lodges and football lodges and
• 43:40
  Speaker: rugby lodges and, you know, any sort of thing that you would
• 43:43
  Speaker: consider a hobby they've created Affinity Lodges for.
• 43:46
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 43:46
  Speaker: Um, I think that's cool.
• 43:47
  Speaker: And so that is a deliberate choice to start new traditions.
• 43:51
  Speaker: Or again, traditions don't have
• 43:53
  Speaker: to be something that's been done
• 43:54
  Speaker: for forever.
• 43:55
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 43:56
  Speaker: As long as the purpose is definition, belief, custom or
• 44:00
  Speaker: way of behaving that's passed down, then congratulations.
• 44:04
  Speaker: This is the way we do things at this lodge until twenty forty.
• 44:09
  Speaker: Until twenty forty.
• 44:10
  Speaker: And if you don't want to join this lodge, that's okay.
• 44:14
  Speaker: There's another lodge down the street.
• 44:16
  Speaker: If you're not a Trekkie, there's
• 44:17
  Speaker: a Star Wars lodge down the hall,
• 44:19
  Speaker: you know.
• 44:19
  Speaker: Thank goodness.
• 44:20
  Speaker: Yes!
• 44:21
  Speaker: Woo woo.
• 44:23
  Speaker: Why not?
• 44:23
  Speaker: Um, I think I think it's going
• 44:28
  Speaker: to be hard for us in the
• 44:30
  Speaker: masonry.
• 44:31
  Speaker: We live in today to get around
• 44:33
  Speaker: innovation being a four letter
• 44:34
  Speaker: word.
• 44:35
  Speaker: Right.
• 44:36
  Speaker: Um, you know, it's always going to be one.
• 44:38
  Speaker: Um and it's hard to think about that like that because and you
• 44:44
  Speaker: and I have spoken about this.
• 44:45
  Speaker: It's like, when are we going to
• 44:46
  Speaker: become the generation that's old
• 44:47
  Speaker: and curmudgeony and doesn't like
• 44:48
  Speaker: anything and just yells at
• 44:49
  Speaker: everyone and says, no, you're
• 44:50
  Speaker: wrong.
• 44:51
  Speaker: And we've always done it this way.
• 44:52
  Speaker: Like I'm not there yet.
• 44:53
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 44:54
  Speaker: Um, and you're not there yet, but when do we get there?
• 44:56
  Speaker: Like, what's the cutoff?
• 44:58
  Speaker: Because I'm waiting for it.
• 44:59
  Speaker: It hasn't happened.
• 45:00
  Speaker: But, um, but instead of using the word innovation, I would I
• 45:05
  Speaker: would opine that we should throw out the word optimizations
• 45:10
  Speaker: instead of innovations.
• 45:11
  Speaker: Ooh, okay.
• 45:13
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 45:13
  Speaker: Thing.
• 45:14
  Speaker: Make it, tweak it, make it a little better.
• 45:16
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 45:16
  Speaker: I think it sounds less offensive
• 45:19
  Speaker: to Masonic ears than than
• 45:20
  Speaker: innovation.
• 45:21
  Speaker: That's a good point.
• 45:22
  Speaker: We're not innovating.
• 45:23
  Speaker: We're just optimizing.
• 45:25
  Speaker: Optimizing.
• 45:26
  Speaker: Yeah, I like it.
• 45:28
  Speaker: Um, the last parable here that I wanted to share before we get to
• 45:31
  Speaker: final the final question.
• 45:33
  Speaker: So make sure you know what your
• 45:34
  Speaker: answer is for the final
• 45:35
  Speaker: question.
• 45:36
  Speaker: Um, I don't what I was thinking about changing traditions and
• 45:42
  Speaker: the reaction we, we often get when we're changing things.
• 45:46
  Speaker: Um, I heard of a not technically
• 45:50
  Speaker: valid or true fable, but it is a
• 45:53
  Speaker: fable or a practice, a parable
• 45:55
  Speaker: that comes up quite a bit in
• 45:56
  Speaker: psychological realms, um called
• 45:59
  Speaker: the, um, the five monkeys
• 46:02
  Speaker: experiment.
• 46:04
  Speaker: Have you heard of this?
• 46:05
  Speaker: Where the story goes.
• 46:08
  Speaker: You have five monkeys placed in a cage with a ladder in the
• 46:11
  Speaker: middle and some bananas hanging down from the ceiling.
• 46:15
  Speaker: Right?
• 46:16
  Speaker: And sure enough, banana sees monkey.
• 46:18
  Speaker: Banana sees ladder, banana climb, or banana climbs.
• 46:21
  Speaker: The monkey climbs the ladder.
• 46:23
  Speaker: I don't want to live in that
• 46:24
  Speaker: world where bananas are climbing
• 46:26
  Speaker: and shit.
• 46:26
  Speaker: No. That was a. That was a fun trip.
• 46:28
  Speaker: And the monkeys start climbing the ladder and an external
• 46:32
  Speaker: zookeeper sprays the monkey down with a hose and to stop them
• 46:37
  Speaker: from climbing the ladder.
• 46:38
  Speaker: And all of a sudden, all the monkeys are like, whoa, whoa,
• 46:41
  Speaker: did you see that?
• 46:42
  Speaker: Right.
• 46:43
  Speaker: And time passes.
• 46:46
  Speaker: Second monkey starts climbing
• 46:48
  Speaker: the ladder, gets instantly hosed
• 46:49
  Speaker: down.
• 46:50
  Speaker: And enough of this pattern repeats over time that as soon
• 46:55
  Speaker: as you know, um, they know not to not to go near the ladder.
• 47:01
  Speaker: Bananas group of monkeys.
• 47:03
  Speaker: That whole group stops going near the ladder, stops going
• 47:06
  Speaker: near the ladder.
• 47:07
  Speaker: Take a monkey out, put a brand new monkey in who doesn't know
• 47:11
  Speaker: the social norms of the group, and they start climbing that
• 47:14
  Speaker: ladder and all the other monkeys start beating them like I've
• 47:18
  Speaker: been before this part.
• 47:19
  Speaker: They beat the shit out of that
• 47:20
  Speaker: monkey, out of the new guy,
• 47:22
  Speaker: right?
• 47:22
  Speaker: And the new guy is like, what did I do?
• 47:24
  Speaker: Uh, because they don't know the
• 47:27
  Speaker: trauma, whatever the association
• 47:29
  Speaker: that's there.
• 47:31
  Speaker: And you replace another monkey, another monkey.
• 47:33
  Speaker: But over time, you have five brand new monkeys that anytime a
• 47:38
  Speaker: new, a new one starts to climb the ladder, they don't know why.
• 47:41
  Speaker: And those monkeys were never closed down before.
• 47:44
  Speaker: Yeah, they were never there.
• 47:45
  Speaker: But the tradition informed them
• 47:49
  Speaker: that they were supposed to act
• 47:51
  Speaker: this way.
• 47:54
  Speaker: And it seems extreme, right?
• 47:55
  Speaker: And it is probably not a true
• 47:57
  Speaker: story, but it does talk about
• 47:59
  Speaker: social conditioning.
• 48:00
  Speaker: It does talk about the power of
• 48:02
  Speaker: passing down practices and
• 48:05
  Speaker: behaviors.
• 48:05
  Speaker: And if you don't know why, if you don't have Chesterton's
• 48:08
  Speaker: fence as to why we're doing these things, it can create
• 48:13
  Speaker: negative outcomes or not even negative unintended outcomes
• 48:17
  Speaker: beyond just that's the way it's always been done.
• 48:21
  Speaker: Because as soon as a new monkey joins your lodge, it's.
• 48:26
  Speaker: But we've always done it this other way.
• 48:29
  Speaker: And we all know that's.
• 48:31
  Speaker: Those are the most dangerous
• 48:32
  Speaker: words you can say in
• 48:34
  Speaker: Freemasonry.
• 48:35
  Speaker: Indeed.
• 48:37
  Speaker: So with that, the final question is as brought up by, um, Kramer.
• 48:46
  Speaker: That's the best I can.
• 48:50
  Speaker: Kramer.
• 48:51
  Speaker: Kramer.
• 48:52
  Speaker: Uh, would you how would you go about introducing a new
• 48:54
  Speaker: tradition to your lodge?
• 48:55
  Speaker: And what could it be?
• 48:57
  Speaker: Or what would it be?
• 49:00
  Speaker: So Joe gets to create a brand new tradition for his lodge.
• 49:06
  Speaker: Um, what would it be?
• 49:07
  Speaker: And how would you start that in?
• 49:13
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 49:13
  Speaker: Okay.
• 49:14
  Speaker: Um, first of all, fun, fun, fun thought experiments tonight.
• 49:18
  Speaker: Um, I'm super down with doing the five monkey one.
• 49:22
  Speaker: If you want to.
• 49:23
  Speaker: We'll grab your kids.
• 49:24
  Speaker: Grab my kids.
• 49:25
  Speaker: We'll throw them in a room.
• 49:26
  Speaker: That's what, eight kids?
• 49:27
  Speaker: Um, we'll leave a couple off to the side.
• 49:29
  Speaker: Just rotate them in.
• 49:31
  Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it'll be a good, uh, experiment.
• 49:34
  Speaker: Yes, I love it.
• 49:36
  Speaker: Plenty of room.
• 49:37
  Speaker: Um, yeah.
• 49:39
  Speaker: Um, this was fun.
• 49:41
  Speaker: So how would how would I introduce a new tradition into
• 49:44
  Speaker: my lodge and what would it be?
• 49:46
  Speaker: Um, I think I did, um,
• 49:49
  Speaker: especially my first year, um,
• 49:51
  Speaker: when I had as master, when I had
• 49:54
  Speaker: all the energy and chutzpah that
• 49:56
  Speaker: one could possibly imagine, um,
• 49:58
  Speaker: you know, before I was beat down
• 49:59
  Speaker: by tradition, all the other
• 50:01
  Speaker: monkeys.
• 50:02
  Speaker: Yes.
• 50:02
  Speaker: Yes.
• 50:03
  Speaker: Before all the other monkeys.
• 50:04
  Speaker: Just whoop my ass.
• 50:06
  Speaker: Um, I think a good one to to try
• 50:11
  Speaker: to introduce is if your lodge
• 50:13
  Speaker: doesn't already do it, is to
• 50:15
  Speaker: turn the degrees into a true
• 50:19
  Speaker: initiatic experience.
• 50:20
  Speaker: Right.
• 50:21
  Speaker: Create the journey, design the journey, put the put the the
• 50:25
  Speaker: mile markers up.
• 50:26
  Speaker: Um, stop treating the degrees as three events that someone puts
• 50:30
  Speaker: on a calendar, right?
• 50:31
  Speaker: Build an actual progression around them.
• 50:33
  Speaker: You know, prepare the candidates beforehand.
• 50:36
  Speaker: Talk to them.
• 50:36
  Speaker: Teach them things, have
• 50:38
  Speaker: intentional periods between the
• 50:39
  Speaker: degrees where you're not just
• 50:40
  Speaker: doing catechism.
• 50:42
  Speaker: If you're a catechism, you know, jurisdiction or not.
• 50:44
  Speaker: Um, teach them things, talk
• 50:46
  Speaker: about things, talk about
• 50:47
  Speaker: masonry, talk about why they're
• 50:48
  Speaker: masons.
• 50:49
  Speaker: Um, introduce guided reflection,
• 50:52
  Speaker: you know, um, and it doesn't
• 50:53
  Speaker: have to be all woo woo, you
• 50:56
  Speaker: know, just periods of reflection
• 50:57
  Speaker: where you sit there and you
• 50:58
  Speaker: think about the things that
• 50:59
  Speaker: you've learned.
• 51:00
  Speaker: Um, here's another bad word.
• 51:02
  Speaker: Tie education into all these things that you do for both new
• 51:06
  Speaker: people and the people that have been there for thirty years.
• 51:09
  Speaker: Um, don't change the ritual.
• 51:12
  Speaker: Change everything around the ritual.
• 51:15
  Speaker: Yes.
• 51:16
  Speaker: And create a, a journey as
• 51:17
  Speaker: opposed to three distinct little
• 51:19
  Speaker: dates on your calendar to go
• 51:21
  Speaker: through.
• 51:22
  Speaker: I like it.
• 51:23
  Speaker: Yeah, that's my answer.
• 51:24
  Speaker: Very cool, very cool.
• 51:26
  Speaker: All right.
• 51:27
  Speaker: As for me, then do it until twenty forty.
• 51:29
  Speaker: Then do whatever you want.
• 51:30
  Speaker: Yes.
• 51:31
  Speaker: Yes.
• 51:31
  Speaker: Definitely.
• 51:32
  Speaker: Definitely be the change.
• 51:34
  Speaker: Be the change.
• 51:34
  Speaker: Be the change.
• 51:36
  Speaker: Oh my God.
• 51:36
  Speaker: Next week I have surprises for everybody.
• 51:38
  Speaker: Yes, yes.
• 51:39
  Speaker: Oh, nice.
• 51:40
  Speaker: Okay.
• 51:41
  Speaker: Um, we, uh.
• 51:44
  Speaker: So another one.
• 51:45
  Speaker: Jo Jo covered a lot of ground
• 51:46
  Speaker: there, but I'd say one specific
• 51:47
  Speaker: thing.
• 51:49
  Speaker: Um, I have been to and seen
• 51:51
  Speaker: other lodges that introduce, uh,
• 51:54
  Speaker: that you have to have a paper
• 51:56
  Speaker: before you can advance from E to
• 51:58
  Speaker: Fellowcraft and Fellowcraft to
• 51:59
  Speaker: master Mason.
• 52:00
  Speaker: So I think that would be, um, a great tradition.
• 52:05
  Speaker: And so how would you do that?
• 52:07
  Speaker: Um, well, the first, first way to do it is to find a brand new
• 52:11
  Speaker: candidate that is anxious and willing to try that, right?
• 52:15
  Speaker: Because they don't know better.
• 52:16
  Speaker: And you, and you definitely want
• 52:17
  Speaker: to make sure it's someone who
• 52:18
  Speaker: has that type of appetite,
• 52:20
  Speaker: right?
• 52:21
  Speaker: And then you show by example, right?
• 52:23
  Speaker: You have this through this, uh,
• 52:25
  Speaker: say, hey, we're going to try
• 52:26
  Speaker: this.
• 52:26
  Speaker: It's not required.
• 52:27
  Speaker: But hey, if you could write a
• 52:29
  Speaker: little paper and present it to
• 52:30
  Speaker: the lodge before your, your
• 52:32
  Speaker: catechism return, that'd be
• 52:33
  Speaker: great.
• 52:34
  Speaker: And then do baby steps, right?
• 52:37
  Speaker: There's a lot more power in
• 52:38
  Speaker: trying a little change and
• 52:39
  Speaker: seeing if it sticks, and then
• 52:41
  Speaker: kind of snowballing it rather
• 52:43
  Speaker: than trying to say, okay, from
• 52:45
  Speaker: now on, all our candidates are
• 52:47
  Speaker: gonna must do it this way,
• 52:49
  Speaker: right?
• 52:50
  Speaker: Big change is toxic, even for if
• 52:53
  Speaker: it's in the best intentions,
• 52:54
  Speaker: right?
• 52:55
  Speaker: But, but, um, it change is much better done, uh, by incremental
• 53:01
  Speaker: baby steps showing how it can work in your organization and
• 53:05
  Speaker: then repeat those successes.
• 53:07
  Speaker: So, um, whatever that change is, um, definitely dip your toe in
• 53:13
  Speaker: the water first instead of trying to just change everything
• 53:16
  Speaker: overnight because the, the emotions start coming out.
• 53:19
  Speaker: So that's a really good question.
• 53:21
  Speaker: Awesome.
• 53:22
  Speaker: Um, there we go.
• 53:24
  Speaker: So yeah, that was a great conversation.
• 53:27
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 53:28
  Speaker: And hope you keep up with our Masonic tradition of TMR live
• 53:32
  Speaker: every Thursday night.
• 53:34
  Speaker: We got a great episode lined up next week.
• 53:36
  Speaker: And until then, thank you all very much for watching and keep
• 53:40
  Speaker: searching for more life.
• 53:41
  Speaker: Have a good night.
• 53:48
  Speaker: Wow.