Latest / The Uplifters / Is It Burnout, Postpartum, or Perimenopause?

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Is It Burnout, Postpartum, or Perimenopause? · The Uplifters

• 0:05
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• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the Uplifters podcast,
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: where every week I talk to incredible women over 40 who are doing big,
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: brave things in the world and sharing their mindsets,
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: their hurdles,
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: and their practices to help us all find our path to doing bigger,
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: braver things.
• 1:28
  And one of the things I've really been learning in my life
• 1:30
  lately is that my
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: threshold for bravery keeps increasing.
• 1:35
  And that what felt really brave three years ago feels like,
• 1:40
  meh,
• 1:41
  no big deal now.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: And so today I'm really excited to talk to Carissa Pfeiffer.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: She's a certified health coach.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: She is the founder of Paramenopause Power.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: I met her at the Swell Summit,
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: Naomi Watts Menopause Summit,
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: and she had on this rad Paramenopause Power t-shirt and
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: that we were all like, oh yeah, girl, we see you.
• 2:04
  And she was so smart about making connections and just really
• 2:09
  glad to know her and
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: see her out in the world.
• 2:12
  But her work is really dedicated to ensuring that women don't
• 2:16
  suffer silently and
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: leave their careers because of unmanaged menopause symptoms.
• 2:24
  It all comes from own experience with burnout that she
• 2:27
  initially attributed to just
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: motherhood and work stress,
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  SPEAKER_03: which I'm sure were factors.
• 2:33
  But then ultimately discovering that she was actually
• 2:35
  navigating perimenopause was
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: a revelation that transformed her choices and
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: and ultimately her life and her career trajectory.
• 2:45
  Now she's helping women understand what's happening in their
• 2:47
  bodies during these
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: transitions,
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: to reclaim their energy and confidence,
• 2:51
  and then create the sustainable habits that allow them to
• 2:54
  thrive in every area and
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: every stage of their lives.
• 2:59
  Our mission is rooted in a really powerful statistic that I
• 3:02
  think we should all
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: know,
• 3:03
  which is that 13% of women leave their careers because of
• 3:08
  unaddressed menopause
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: symptoms and she's determined to help change that number.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: So Carissa, thank you so much for being here.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: I've been so looking forward to this conversation.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_03: Me too.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: What was going on that you were like, wait, is this postpartum?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: Is this work stress?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_03: Is this more?
• 3:32
  Tell me what life was like then and how you started to look for
• 3:39
  and find some answers.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like there wasn't like one instance, right?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I had a longstanding career in corporate finance and data analytics.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I was an overachiever, right?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: A people pleaser, an overachiever.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of women suffer from this.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I did a really good job at work.
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  And if anybody's familiar of what happens if you do a really
• 4:07
  good job at work,
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: then you get more work.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: And more people lean on you.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was in the height of my career.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was in our C-suite all of the time.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was a lot of different people's go-to.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I also had my baby later.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: I know you and I were kidding around.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, that's not old for New York, right?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: I had my baby at 35.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: But it is deemed advanced maternal age because I put my career first.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: I had spent the years climbing the corporate ladder and...
• 4:38
  When I got back from maternity leave,
• 4:41
  I'd gotten thrown back into the fire.
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  SPEAKER_00: There was no easing up.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was essentially like, hi, here's your team of people.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Go forth and you have a new leader and train him.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't even know that I actually even recovered from birth.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: To getting thrown back into it.
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  And then fast forward,
• 5:00
  my daughter turned to the day our company shut down.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: We were doing a trial shutdown for COVID on her second birthday.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And we all know the rest.
• 5:10
  Here goes a year and a half of working from home,
• 5:13
  which was supposed to be a two-week test.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: But when the world stopped, I was in the mortgage industry.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you remember what happened in the mortgage industry,
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: rates kept coming down,
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: which meant we got busier and our jobs got crazier.
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  So I'm working at home,
• 5:32
  meeting with our C-suite every single day on Zoom.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: My daughter is two at home with us out of daycare.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so finally,
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  SPEAKER_00: probably around like 2022,
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: 2023,
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  SPEAKER_00: things kind of felt back to normal,
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: but I didn't feel back to normal.
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  SPEAKER_00: So at this point, I'm probably five years postpartum.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: I know I'm burnt out.
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  I'm putting maybe 20 minutes of time to myself,
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  which is purely for sanity.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's not even for a maintenance.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's purely for sanity at this point.
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  SPEAKER_00: Sneaking upstairs to do a quick workout,
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  but then running downstairs sweaty to hop back on a Zoom call
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  and working till 6
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: o'clock.
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  When I had to pick my daughter up from daycare,
• 6:16
  thankfully it was in our building.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: But so I'm experiencing like major fatigue, anxiety, depression.
• 6:23
  And I think I'm postpartum still,
• 6:25
  but I'm like,
• 6:26
  when does this postpartum thing kind of go away?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Five years into it.
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  SPEAKER_00: So our company actually offered buyouts in 2023.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought I was going to retire from my company.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was doing a great job.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: I really loved it there.
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  SPEAKER_00: But when they announced those buyouts,
• 6:44
  I can't explain it as anything more than a gut feeling told me
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  I needed to take it.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I was the breadwinner of our family.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I told my husband, I'm like, I think I need to take this.
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  SPEAKER_00: And he was super supportive.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought this was going to be my reprieve, right?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was 41.
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  SPEAKER_00: I definitely wasn't ready to retire.
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  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, this is going to be my reprieve.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to come up for air.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to figure out what I want to be when I grow up.
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  SPEAKER_00: But my symptoms got worse.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I left my job.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm now exhausted.
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  SPEAKER_00: I have all this time on my hands.
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  So I think I'm going to start moving my body more and I'm going
• 7:20
  to start going to yoga again.
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  And I have no motivation to do anything that I love and not
• 7:26
  even movement,
• 7:27
  right?
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  SPEAKER_00: Because movement can be hard for people sometimes like,
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: no,
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  SPEAKER_00: I just don't want to go for this walk.
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  SPEAKER_00: But it was like,
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  gardening and planting my flowers and making dinner,
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  the fun stuff that used to be fun for me.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I saw no joy in that.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I was out for a walk one day.
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  SPEAKER_00: I did finally have time to listen to podcasts,
• 7:46
  which I had never listened to a podcast at the age of 41 until
• 7:49
  I quit my job.
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  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that crazy?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yay, podcast.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yay, podcast.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: And now here I am on one.
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  SPEAKER_00: I know.
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  SPEAKER_00: So...
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  I'm out for a walk and I'd been really big on Demel Robbins and
• 8:02
  Dr.
• 8:02
  Mary Claire Haver was on.
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  SPEAKER_00: And the title is something with menopause.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I'm going to change this.
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  But it was cold and I didn't want to like reach into my pockets
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  and take my mittens off.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I listened and my mind was instantly blown.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I was like...
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  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're not postpartum.
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  SPEAKER_00: You're perimenopause.
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  SPEAKER_00: You're not burnt out.
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  Hey girl,
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  you're in perimenopause and menopause isn't something that your
• 8:32
  grandma goes through.
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  SPEAKER_00: spoiler alert, symptoms can start when you're 35.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I started putting two and two together.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm like,
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  that's why I never recovered from being postpartum because I
• 8:46
  probably was already
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: starting to experience some perimenopause symptoms anyway.
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  SPEAKER_00: And now I didn't have any time to rebound.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I just went straight from one hormonal shift into the other one.
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  And then that just led me down this massive rabbit hole of
• 9:02
  educating myself because
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: I was always the go-to for my friends for health and wellness.
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  SPEAKER_00: They would always call me and be like, hey, what should I do?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Or like, what should I eat for this?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because that was my side passion.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: I was a yoga teacher and always in that space.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, if I don't know this, my friends for sure don't know this.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then who are they going to call?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: I need to educate myself.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I got down this major rabbit hole.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I was so, so sad that we don't know about our bodies.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was so sad that no one's teaching us as teenage girls even.
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  So now we're just thrown into the fire and oftentimes not even
• 9:46
  knowing that these
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: symptoms in isolation...
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm tired.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: I am anxious.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: I have itchy skin.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: And in a little isolated world, you don't start putting them together.
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  And then all of a sudden you see it on a symptom tracker and
• 10:01
  you're like,
• 10:02
  check,
• 10:03
  check,
• 10:03
  check.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I've got that one too.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Check itchy ears.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: So instantly like, I felt so seen though.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: I did.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: I felt so seen and validated.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm not crazy.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: My hormones are.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's,
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: in general,
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: just such an important thing is to have these moments of realization.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: My daughter this week read about dysgraphia,
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: which is like,
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: it's basically dyslexia,
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: but for handwriting.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: Ouch.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so like they have an unusual pen grip and all.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, we'll do another episode about dysgraphia.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: Go Google it.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: It was this moment for her of like, oh, I'm not broken.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not wrong.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: There are other people who experience this.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: There are ways to manage this that have been researched, right?
• 10:59
  And so I think anytime in general that we get data that
• 11:05
  corresponds to our
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: experience,
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: it normalizes it and it reduces that sense of anxiety,
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: that is blocking our path forward because we can say,
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: okay,
• 11:16
  now I know a little bit and now I can understand what's the
• 11:20
  next tiny step I could
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: take toward clarity.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so I really hear that echoed in here instead of like,
• 11:27
  When we assume it is the diagnoses that we expect or the things
• 11:34
  that we're aware of
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: and have heard of,
• 11:36
  we so often are chasing the wrong solution and just making the
• 11:41
  actual root issue
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_03: worse.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're not fixing the root issue at all.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: Correct.
• 11:49
  And I hear this time and time again with women in perimenopause
• 11:53
  and menopause that
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: it's like,
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: oh my gosh,
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: I was burning myself.
• 11:58
  I was actually burning myself out trying to fix problems that
• 12:03
  weren't even related
• 12:04
  to the problem that I had because nobody saw what was actually
• 12:09
  going on with me.
• 12:11
  And it's like,
• 12:12
  you look and you're in and are a lot of those symptoms similar?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: And also when we're not taught,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: then we just default to like,
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: okay,
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm five years postpartum or okay.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm, you know, just burnt out from my job.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Let's leave it.
• 12:28
  And it's like,
• 12:29
  well,
• 12:30
  you know,
• 12:30
  would I have done something differently with my career?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know because I feel so,
• 12:35
  so validated in that I am on the right path finally to be of
• 12:39
  service to women.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, I think everything happens for a reason.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm so happy that I actually did leave my job.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: But also, I loved my job.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I loved my team.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I love the people I work for.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I wish I didn't have to make that choice.
• 12:57
  But I definitely know that what I'm doing today is so much more
• 13:01
  impactful than
• 13:02
  managing a company's bottom line or their billion-dollar
• 13:06
  marketing budget.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you talk about data.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: That was my world.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was a finance and data girl.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like,
• 13:12
  Give me all of the data so then I can make an informed decision
• 13:17
  on it afterwards.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: So as you started to understand what was going on with you,
• 13:24
  what were some of the things that began to give you a sense of
• 13:27
  relief and helped
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: with not only some of your symptoms,
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: but also specifically your energy levels?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I think for that,
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: for me,
• 13:41
  I had a pretty good toolkit at my disposal from my health and
• 13:45
  wellness background.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I think one of the things that we don't talk enough about,
• 13:50
  because a lot of the symptoms are obviously very physical and
• 13:54
  very physical mental.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's like the gamut, right?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I think even still,
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: what I hear today,
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm so excited menopause is having this moment,
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 14:03
  Like conferences like The Swell that we get to go to and all
• 14:06
  these doctors on this stage.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I think for a lot of women, there's so much being thrown at them.
• 14:13
  You almost get like in this freeze mode because it's like,
• 14:16
  you know what you should be doing.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: We all... These are not groundbreaking rocket science tips, right?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Eating healthier and making sure we're moving our body.
• 14:26
  I think the one thing that doesn't get enough press coverage or
• 14:29
  doesn't get talked
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: about enough is nervous regulation and stress reductions.
• 14:35
  Because even now that hormone replacement therapy is getting
• 14:40
  also more press and
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: more like they're debunking all the myths...
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of times we think like,
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to take this HRT and my symptoms are going to go away.
• 14:50
  But then we're doing all these things over here with our life
• 14:53
  that might actually
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: counteract how the HRT works.
• 14:57
  And so I really think at its core,
• 15:00
  stress reduction and nervous system regulation is
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: is so foundational.
• 15:06
  And I think really for me,
• 15:08
  I started doing the things that you should do again,
• 15:11
  right?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like moving my body more and eating healthier.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: I had a pretty healthy diet as it was.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, I'm like, well, what more can I do?
• 15:19
  I didn't notice the biggest effects when it came to my mood and
• 15:22
  my energy until I
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: really started doing the inner work.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't have to be so complicated, right?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of times people are like, well, I don't have time.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't have time until I left my job.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: We're all overwhelmed.
• 15:36
  A lot of us are like high achieving women who are climbing the
• 15:40
  corporate ladder,
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: maybe in parallel with raising little ones or teenagers or...
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: helping out the sandwich generation, helping out our elderly parents.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so we don't have time to throw one more thing on our plate.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's also a misconception.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Nervous system regulation, that doesn't take a lot of your time.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like 5 minutes of breathing exercises,
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: gratitude journaling every day,
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: having some good sleep hygiene.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think those things are not talked about enough.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the thing that I think impacted me for the better.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Once I started doing that work.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: You really nailed it there because I do think we have this tendency,
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: especially in midlife,
• 16:25
  to want to pile on more when maybe what we need is less and
• 16:32
  more intentional.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_03: And there was a guest on the show recently,
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: Elena Brower,
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: another yoga teacher,
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: who said that paradoxically,
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: her days feel longer when she does less.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that speaks to what you're saying here.
• 16:47
  This idea that if we focus our energy and attention on what
• 16:53
  truly matters most to us,
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: In your case,
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: it sounds like your own well-being,
• 16:59
  caring for your daughter's well-being and the impact that you
• 17:03
  get to have through
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: your work.
• 17:05
  And when the energy investments are strategic,
• 17:08
  we can get much bigger returns.
• 17:11
  And I actually wrote about this in my newsletter today about
• 17:14
  thinking of it as a bank account.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: I say that a lot.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I'm getting so excited.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: I look on the physical,
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like,
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: build your muscle bank,
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: build your bone density bank when you're in your twenties.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: But like, yes, you're putting in those daily deposits, right?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: And some things are big deposits that get compound interest, right?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like a great conversation with a friend.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_03: If that's going to be like an hour of your time,
• 17:42
  Maybe you do it while walking and you get the compound interest
• 17:47
  of feeling great
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: physically,
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_03: of feeling great mentally,
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: getting really clear on your intentions and your priorities.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like that is serious energetic investment.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: There are other things that deplete your account really fast.
• 18:05
  And maybe those are things like,
• 18:08
  I don't know,
• 18:09
  a conversation that doesn't have a point.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Or with a negative person.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've found like... With a complainer.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like a soul sucker, I always call them.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, energy vampires.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 18:22
  I feel like,
• 18:23
  okay,
• 18:24
  there's a lot of misconception out there about perimenopause.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of people want to be like,
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, menopause is the worst.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: I actually kind of...
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: My 40s,
• 18:33
  I really love them because I always get around like I have way
• 18:37
  less Fs to give,
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: way less.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: My boundaries are like really reeled in.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's part of that nervous system regulation too is like,
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: I say no to so many more things.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think,
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: again,
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: not to stereotype or genderize with women versus men,
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: but I feel like women tend to...
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Again,
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: the people-pleasing and stuff,
• 19:01
  we tend to say yes to things that we don't really want to do or
• 19:04
  we do things out of
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: guilt and obligation.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember my 20s.
• 19:09
  I would feel like I had to go to an event because I didn't want
• 19:12
  my friend to be mad at me.
• 19:13
  Or you would say yes,
• 19:15
  but really in the very instant you said yes,
• 19:18
  you knew it was a no.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: You knew you really didn't want to go to this thing.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have a lot of regrets in life, but that is one thing.
• 19:25
  If I could go back to my 20-year-old self,
• 19:27
  I'd be like,
• 19:28
  say no to more things.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Only do the things that you...
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And granted,
• 19:33
  you can't necessarily say no to feeding your child because you
• 19:37
  don't want to,
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: But going to these parties,
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: and I think like,
• 19:42
  especially as the holiday season starts to become upon us when
• 19:46
  things get crazy,
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: it's like,
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: I say no to so many things because why do that to yourself?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of the day,
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: like this,
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: this is the body,
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: this is the vessel that we get to live in.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so...
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really important to do the things that serve us.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that misconception of like, oh, you're just being selfish.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know what?
• 20:10
  If somebody thinks you're being selfish,
• 20:12
  that's a reflection of their own being.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: It has nothing to do with you.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm starting to learn that a lot more too.
• 20:20
  It's like,
• 20:20
  hey,
• 20:21
  what people are projecting on you,
• 20:22
  it's not a you thing,
• 20:23
  it's a them thing.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I just...
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of just...
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that I don't care anymore,
• 20:28
  but I think that is something that I don't spend a lot of time
• 20:33
  thinking about
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: anymore.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:34
  And I think that comes with a lot of the work and the inner
• 20:37
  work with the nervous
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: system regulation and knowing that if I say yes to this thing,
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: it's not going to serve me inside.
• 20:44
  And then when your nervous system isn't regulated,
• 20:47
  we talk a lot about this midlife pooch.
• 20:50
  I have one and it's not really fun,
• 20:53
  but you can't eat better and move your body more
• 20:58
  And think that that's going to go away when you're not handling
• 21:01
  the cortisol that's
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: internally spiking inside of your body.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why you see a lot of these women,
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: they're like,
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm eating the same as I did when I was in my 20s.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gaining weight now.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like,
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: estrogen,
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: also your estrogen leaving,
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: but cortisol,
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: we got to fix that cortisol inside.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: And to do that, you need to do this inner work.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's so important.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: And boundaries.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: So you're saying that I believe you,
• 21:30
  but you're saying that journaling and gratitude will reduce
• 21:37
  your belly pouch.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it reduces your cortisol.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think those are all tied together.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 21:46
  There is so much research out there about like having a daily
• 21:49
  gratitude practice,
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: five minutes of breathing exercises.
• 21:53
  Again,
• 21:53
  a lot of people think like,
• 21:55
  oh,
• 21:55
  I don't really know any breathing exercises.
• 21:58
  It can be as simple as five minutes of actually just being
• 22:01
  conscious about your
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: breath coming in and out of your nose.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's one of those things I would always say when I taught yoga.
• 22:07
  Okay,
• 22:08
  we have three things that we absolutely...
• 22:12
  It's a necessity to live.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Food, water, and air, right?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: And shelter.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Shelter is great also, but food, water, and air.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we listen to our bodies when it says it's hungry, right?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Our tummy starts to growl.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: And when we're thirsty, we know our lips will get parched.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: You can tell your skin starts to get dry.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: We know these cues of when we're hungry and when we're thirsty.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: But the one thing we literally can't live without for more than,
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: what,
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: two minutes unless you're some super,
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: super underwater diver,
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: you can't live without air.
• 22:44
  Yet it's the thing that our body just does naturally that we
• 22:46
  don't even pay attention to.
• 22:48
  I bet you most people probably consciously don't even think
• 22:51
  about their breath on a
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: day-to-day basis.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: So even just sitting for five minutes and,
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: being conscious of this breath coming in and out of your nose,
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: that's conscious breathing.
• 23:01
  It's so fascinating that if somebody tells me to hold my breath
• 23:06
  for a minute,
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: it's like the hardest thing in the world,
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: unless I'm lifting weights and then I can hold it for like 80 minutes.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Subconsciously, you're like, they're like, hey, remember to breathe.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, oh yeah.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: But it is interesting, isn't it?
• 23:20
  Because in one case,
• 23:22
  right,
• 23:22
  the holding your breath really is attention to your breath.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: With the conscious holding, the unconscious holding.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: The unconscious holding.
• 23:34
  It was always a cue in yoga,
• 23:35
  like unclench your jaw and you're like,
• 23:37
  oh yeah,
• 23:38
  oh,
• 23:38
  I am.
• 23:39
  Oh, look at that.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: Right, I know.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: Drop your shoulders.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're not wearing them like earrings.
• 23:44
  My favorite yoga teacher used to say,
• 23:46
  and you're like,
• 23:47
  oh,
• 23:47
  oh yes,
• 23:48
  sit up tall.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: And what it is,
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think in general,
• 23:51
  is you're talking about bringing awareness to this stuff and
• 23:54
  being present in the
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: moment.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: As opposed to constantly looking ahead and behind.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: What do they say?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you're living in your past, you're depressed.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: If you're living in the future, you're anxious.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're present, you're just content.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: The thing too is with a lot of women,
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: especially during this transition,
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: with the estrogen slowly waning into your body,
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of women all of a sudden will say like,
• 24:22
  I'm feeling depressed or I'm feeling super anxious and they
• 24:25
  don't know why.
• 24:27
  And now obviously people that might have a history of anxiety
• 24:30
  and depression,
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: different story,
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: but for me,
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: I never did.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so mine was kind of out of nowhere.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: specifically driving anxiety is a thing during postpartum.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that crazy?
• 24:42
  Like my anxiety is when I am driving,
• 24:45
  I don't like getting on the highway anymore.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: If it snows, I won't go anywhere.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, nope, not driving today.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Not.
• 24:51
  And I grew up in the upper peninsula of Michigan where we would
• 24:54
  get 24 inches of
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: snow overnight,
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: and you drive in it,
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: no problem.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm like, I'm not, no, I'm not going out there.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: I could get into an accident.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: you look at the amount of women on SSRIs,
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: and it more than doubles in the age range of 40 to 59.
• 25:14
  And it's like,
• 25:14
  well,
• 25:15
  yeah,
• 25:16
  now that I'm in it,
• 25:16
  it's like,
• 25:17
  oh,
• 25:17
  yeah,
• 25:17
  well,
• 25:18
  thanks.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, perimenopause.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: But and also...
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oftentimes women are just misdiagnosed with these things, right?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: And doctors don't know what to look for.
• 25:27
  And so no one's teaching like foundational things like we're
• 25:30
  talking about.
• 25:31
  Oh,
• 25:32
  and then they're also going on medication that they may or may
• 25:35
  not need.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's obviously a place for anxiety and depression medication.
• 25:40
  And also I think a lot of women are misdiagnosed and that
• 25:44
  becomes the first line of
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: defense because
• 25:46
  Instead of what we started the episode talking about was like
• 25:49
  root cause.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that makes me sad for women too.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Our medical professionals who aren't trained in this,
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: then we're not getting better and we don't know why.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that makes me sad too.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, totally.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's interesting too.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: as I listen to you,
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm struck by the fact that in my coaching practice,
• 26:08
  I work primarily with women who are leaving corporate careers
• 26:14
  and starting
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: entrepreneurial adventures,
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: oftentimes creatively focused and
• 26:20
  we really go on this journey together to build their next
• 26:26
  chapter outside of sort
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: of the familiar and family of a corporate system.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: I was talking, my friend calls it corporate daddy.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be corporate mommy one day, right?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: I hope so.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: But the structure really is.
• 26:43
  And I mean,
• 26:43
  there's a New York Times article about- I was just going to
• 26:45
  say,
• 26:46
  dear we-
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: dare we?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: And it is like, we think about the urgency, right?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: That we feel to go and create something.
• 26:58
  And I think that's a really powerful decision based in our
• 27:03
  orientation toward a
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: growth mindset,
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: particularly in midlife.
• 27:07
  But I think a lot of your work is actually helping corporate
• 27:11
  daddy better.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: a better family to women in paramenopause and menopause.
• 27:19
  So what are some of the accommodations that you encourage
• 27:24
  companies to make in
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: order to better support women in this time of life?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: This has been something that probably in the past 5 months,
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: I have been really...
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: I want to help women individually or in group coaching settings.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: But my passion is making sure that women don't leave the workplace...
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Without the information.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you have all the information, the dating... Yeah.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: It becomes a choice, not like a force out.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I think first and foremost, corporate's educating their team members.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: I had no education myself.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if we... And our company was so great at DEI.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: We were like a very... DEI was at the forefront of our company values.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: They did a lot for...
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: like we had tampons in the male bathroom,
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: they were constantly doing things for like inclusion and all of that.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: But,
• 28:18
  and also like just showing even the companies on the forefront
• 28:22
  of it still can do
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: some work.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think first and foremost, it's education and,
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: And educating the women or the humans born with ovaries in the workplace,
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: educating them about their bodies first and foremost,
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: and then educating the leadership.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think a lot of times,
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: unfortunately,
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: in a lot of corporate Americas,
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: there's still definitely a disparity of women in leadership versus men.
• 28:47
  And I think it's really important for these men to know what
• 28:50
  their team members are
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: going to go through.
• 28:52
  But not only their team members,
• 28:53
  I mean,
• 28:54
  they probably have a spouse,
• 28:56
  a mother,
• 28:56
  a daughter.
• 28:57
  Men are not absolved from menopause because they're going to be
• 29:02
  around someone
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: that's going through it.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: So education,
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: first and foremost,
• 29:08
  but then putting in policies such as letting women have fans at
• 29:13
  their desk.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: At my office, you couldn't have a fan, you couldn't have a space heater.
• 29:17
  I think they were afraid about like...
• 29:19
  I kind of get space heater,
• 29:22
  though I always had one.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Under your desk, like hidden.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then facilities would... But the fans?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Come on.
• 29:31
  Like having flexible work policies because now we're kind of
• 29:35
  out of this COVID.
• 29:36
  And I know a lot of companies are going back to work or back to
• 29:39
  work in office.
• 29:41
  But really having that flexibility of allowing women to work
• 29:45
  from home when they need to.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: And not even just women.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: When do we start getting treated like adults?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like just all of us.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: if I can see of two hours of a commute into the office,
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be more productive at home.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then,
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: by the way,
• 30:01
  if I need to go lay down because I'm having the most
• 30:04
  excruciating cramp or because
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: I've had such a massive period and I've bled through,
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: that's another thing.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like you hear about yourself.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Henley James.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Gotta work from home.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: and so even I've read a lot of companies,
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: what they started to do,
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: the UK is ahead of us on this.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: So they just instituted legislation that's gonna,
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know the specifics of it,
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: but essentially it's gonna make menopause workplace
• 30:33
  either training or policies and procedures like we're talking
• 30:36
  about mandatory for
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: all of the companies.
• 30:38
  But even having...
• 30:39
  I read some companies put black sweaters in the women's
• 30:43
  bathroom.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: So if you do have a bleed through, you can just... It's always hanging.
• 30:48
  You can tie it,
• 30:49
  take it back to your desk,
• 30:51
  and then probably quickly peace out.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 30:54
  Yeah.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: So just things like... That'd be cool too in school.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's the second puberty.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: It is the second puberty.
• 31:05
  There's so many correlations to teenage and what we go through
• 31:10
  in midlife.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so even those things...
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then I don't think,
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: unfortunately,
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think we're much further along than just even starting there.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I know Rhode Island,
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: they're the only state with legislation for menopause in the workplace.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: Michigan,
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: where I live,
• 31:28
  we've got four different bills on the docket right now with
• 31:32
  bipartisan support,
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: luckily.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: which it's more with insurance providers.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's not specific to the workplace yet.
• 31:41
  But I do think that the more we talk about it,
• 31:44
  the more we're going to start to see that.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so just what I encourage companies is be on the forefront of this.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: Be the leader.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Be the industry leader.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because here's where my finance and data brain goes.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: I also do cost analysis to these companies.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of companies think, well, we're a small company.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: We're only 1,000 people.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I did the math on 1,000 people.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: So your company is 1,000 people.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's like 47% of the workforce are women.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you look at the age range of women, 35 to 55...
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's like 33% of the 47%.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: Long story short,
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: even if your average salary and benefits of your team members,
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: it's like $100,000,
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: you get that 13% that's going to leave like me.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then P.S.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: another 12% are at risk of leaving.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that puts you at 25% your at-risk population just to backfill.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we're not talking loss of productivity.
• 32:48
  We're not talking about loss of absenteeism or increased
• 32:51
  healthcare costs because
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: these women have to go to doctor,
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: to doctor,
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: to doctor to be misdiagnosed.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: So just backfilling your attrition.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: A small company,
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: a thousand people like that,
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: it's a cost of like $650,000 to 1.2 million if that full 25% left.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: So these small companies aren't immune from a cost perspective either.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you get somebody in training,
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: even if it's just an initial education session,
• 33:22
  and now these women leave empowered and they realize they don't
• 33:25
  have to make the
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: choice that I did,
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: even that alone,
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: we're talking such minimal costs and,
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: it's just the right thing to do.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: to offset what you're going to lose to try to backfill.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then you think about that's just the average person.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: If you start backfilling women in senior positions,
• 33:44
  there's data and statistics out there saying that that takes
• 33:48
  anywhere from 100% to
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: 400% of the salary because they take longer to fill.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then even like for me, my job sat vacant for like a year.
• 33:59
  So my old team members would be like,
• 34:01
  Krissa,
• 34:01
  we still don't have a leader yet.
• 34:04
  We've got like an interim leader who doesn't really know what's
• 34:07
  going on with our team.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so like,
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: what does that do to the morale of all the people,
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: men and women,
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: when these leaders are leaving too?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's what I call the off the spreadsheet stuff.
• 34:19
  But there is a significant cost to these companies where you
• 34:23
  can mitigate that very
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: simply by getting some education in your workplace.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like a single workshop could make a huge difference.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: Every company should invest in you, Carissa.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thanks.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: They can.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: They can call me.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: But you think about,
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: right,
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: like that these are conversations that we've had about maternal care.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I look at the difference between my daughters are 14 and 17.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_03: I look at the difference now and what was provided 14 to 17 years ago.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: My kids are still living at home with me.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_03: They can't be that old.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like they're like two.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yet there was no paternity.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_03: My husband didn't get a single day of paternity.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 35:12
  I got my 90 days,
• 35:15
  but only like a teeny tiny amount of it was actually paid.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like,
• 35:21
  so there's a reason companies have made those choices because
• 35:24
  they want to maintain
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: their workforce.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: They want to be a workplace of choice.
• 35:31
  And I think what you're saying is this is just kind of the next
• 35:34
  frontier is how we
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_03: help care for these women who we've,
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: in many cases,
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: promoted to the highest roles.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: And then we're like, nah, okay.
• 35:47
  We're going to just pretend that everything is status quo there
• 35:50
  and that they are
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: at the peak of their productivity,
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_03: not somebody we're willing to invest in and care for anymore.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 35:58
  And also too,
• 36:00
  you think,
• 36:00
  okay,
• 36:01
  so like when I came back from maternity leave,
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: You come back from maternity leave and it's like, oh, she's tired.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: She's got brain fog.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: These things are actually like... It's not an excuse.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: This is reality.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: But they're forgiven, kind of.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's like, oh, she just got back from maternity leave.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: So now you've got me.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, I think
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: No one really realizes,
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: unless you're in this,
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: that 35-year-olds can start to experience these things.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: So you get women like me.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm on the top of my game.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm 41 years old.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: I've checked all the boxes.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: I've climbed.
• 36:36
  And now all of a sudden,
• 36:37
  I'm a little snappy when I probably shouldn't be at the
• 36:41
  workplace.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: And my husband's getting the brunt of it, though.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: So ask him.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: It was way worse at home, right?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: Your brain fog is like real.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in the middle of a meeting and you just,
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: even there's a couple of times on here,
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like,
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: wait,
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: what did she just ask me?
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, hold on, perimenopause.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: But you're in a meeting,
• 36:58
  an important meeting and you're presenting and you literally
• 37:01
  just are like,
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what I was going to say or what happens worse,
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think.
• 37:07
  is these women,
• 37:08
  they are forced to take time off or not come into the office.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: You start to see your all-star performers,
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: whether or not they're in leadership,
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: start to get bad performance reviews,
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: but they don't know what's going on inside.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: So they can't communicate to their leader.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is the reality of the corporate workplace.
• 37:25
  And yeah,
• 37:26
  I mean,
• 37:27
  it's really sad because like you said,
• 37:30
  and then instead,
• 37:30
  what do we do?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: We just suffer in silence.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:32
  Because we're not going to talk about it because we don't
• 37:34
  actually maybe know
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: what's going on in our bodies.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: So what would we even say?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of feel funny.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can't explain it, but I just feel off.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: But also then I always think I'm like, I don't know.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we're not supposed to talk about health issues.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was not in HR.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: So like,
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: But then too,
• 37:53
  there definitely has to be probably some procedures because you
• 37:56
  probably don't want
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: your male leader being like,
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: hey,
• 37:58
  all the things you're telling me kind of sounds like you're in
• 38:01
  perimenopause and
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: then like ruffle some feathers,
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: I think,
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: as much as anything,
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_03: it's knowing how to manage it when an employee comes to you and says,
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: I'm trying to figure this thing out.
• 38:16
  Yeah.
• 38:17
  Right.
• 38:17
  Yeah.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I love hearing all of this and learning all of this.
• 38:22
  I also want to make sure I learn from you about your journey to
• 38:26
  entrepreneurial
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_03: work after a career in corporate.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_03: And in the interest of time,
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: I'll just kind of rapid fire this,
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_03: but what were some of the benefits
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: biggest lessons and learnings you got during that transition?
• 38:42
  What made the difference for you branching out into a whole
• 38:46
  different way of
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: organizing your work and work life?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it was very, very eye-opening to me.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: I managed the balance sheet of a Forbes 500 company, right?
• 38:59
  But managing someone else's money and managing someone else's
• 39:04
  company is so different.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: as smart of a woman as I am and as put together and knowing all...
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: I actually had very well-rounded experience.
• 39:15
  I used to support technology and marketing and I had a really
• 39:18
  comprehensive view of a company.
• 39:20
  I think it's really shocking when you have to become the CEO,
• 39:24
  the CMO,
• 39:25
  the CFO.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're wearing all these hats.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say I think that was the hardest thing for me is because...
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: My passion is like doing the thing.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's doing the coaching, right?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's helping the corporations.
• 39:39
  And when you're then also running all these background
• 39:43
  processes and posting on
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: social media,
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: and I think that was the most like,
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: whoa,
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: eye-opening thing for me.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know that I have it all figured out yet.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: I will tell you though,
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: last year and this year,
• 39:56
  I've made probably the least amount of money that I have coming
• 40:00
  from corporate and
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: I've never been happier.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's one thing that I was...
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think looking back,
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: you'd be like,
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: I had that safety and security of that paycheck every other week.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: And luckily, my husband's carrying the benefits and stuff for the family.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I do have his income also.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I think just reminding yourself everything's going to be okay.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: And don't quit because it took me a
• 40:24
  full year of making like close to nothing to finally start to
• 40:29
  get some traction so
• 40:31
  I think it's like don't quit and then oh by the way just be
• 40:35
  prepared for that rude
• 40:36
  awakening when you have to do it all like you're gonna do it
• 40:39
  all but it's so worth
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: it when it's yours it's your baby that you're doing it all for
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_03: I also hear in there allowing our KPIs to be responsive.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_03: So that income,
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_03: those merit increases,
• 40:55
  those promotions all felt really meaningful and really
• 41:00
  validating in my corporate
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: life.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: And not getting those was something to adjust to.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: But then when I opened up the lens a little bit and I was like,
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_03: well,
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_03: what are my merit increases now?
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_03: What promotions am I getting?
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I began to see how powerfully and meaningfully validating those were.
• 41:30
  I began to realize that actually I was making more than I ever
• 41:34
  had in my life,
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_03: even if the bottom line looked different.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_03: Once I really looked at what my KPI,
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: what my key performance indicators were,
• 41:43
  what was aligned with who I am and what I want and need right
• 41:46
  now in this chapter.
• 41:48
  Yes,
• 41:49
  I think we oftentimes think about abundance in just the term of
• 41:52
  money and wealth.
• 41:53
  And so part of my biggest decision,
• 41:56
  my why,
• 41:57
  was zero through five for my daughter.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: Looking back, my career was number one.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I get sad about that.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: Also, I was doing all the things, right?
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is like setting her up for success also.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: But one of my biggest why was to have more time with her.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I pick her up from school every single day.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: She doesn't go to kids club.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: I get to pick her up every single day.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: I get to bring her to her practices.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't miss a game.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't miss an after school.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: I can volunteer at lunch.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: That is abundance to me.
• 42:32
  And that supersedes any paycheck at corporate that I could be
• 42:36
  getting because those
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: were the things I would have been missing out.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think about it right now.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, how would I do this?
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: How would I...
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure I probably would have figured it out,
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: but I bet I would not have been as present in her life.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: And reminding myself that when I get in a tailspin of...
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: I made no money,
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: or whatever it was like,
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: and reminding myself like why I'm doing this.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing it to be with, I'm doing it so she can see what that's like.
• 43:02
  And I think then when you start to think about abundance,
• 43:05
  it starts to shift the narrative.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, I am so abundant in all other areas of my life.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that because I am, the money will follow.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I just believe that I am happier.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_03: And that matters.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 43:25
  Like having a life that responds to my needs and my energy and
• 43:30
  my creativity and I
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: get to be in flow.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's everything.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: So like, how could I choose anything else at this point?
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_03: I like you.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really glad.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe paramenopause was the reason I didn't.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: I felt cranky and brain foggy.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: I, as I'm listening to you, I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: All that was happening for me too.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: But I also think it was also that I was just like done.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_03: I had served my time there and I was ready for something else.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of women,
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: when you hear this,
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: it's okay if you stay at your corporate job too.
• 44:08
  And also like,
• 44:10
  cause for some women,
• 44:11
  you know,
• 44:11
  you start to think like,
• 44:12
  what would I even do?
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: Or what would I turn into my business?
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: and look,
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 44:17
  I think women who leave their corporate career and go into
• 44:20
  entrepreneurship,
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: it's amazing.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's not for everybody though.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think, you know,
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard when you start to see these things.
• 44:28
  You start to see all your friends leaving or everyone's opening
• 44:32
  a company and
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: you're like,
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of don't want...
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: But don't suffer in your current career either.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: Don't suffer inside and physically get the help that you truly need.
• 44:44
  So then at least you are the best version of yourself in your
• 44:47
  corporate career.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_03: Here, here.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: I have loved talking to you, Carissa.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited about what you're building.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's so needed.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: Truly, I hope every company hires you to come and do this workshop.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: They can.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_03: As uplifters, we love to uplift other uplifters.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_03: So how can we support you in your work right now?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: You can...
• 45:06
  If you are an HR business professional or a DEI professional
• 45:11
  and you want...
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: I literally do offer these trainings.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: You can come to my website, which is www.herimenopause-power.com.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'll send you for the show notes or whatever.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then also,
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: if you were a woman and you're like,
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: I would love the accountability and the motivation.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: I do coach women.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: I love group settings better.
• 45:33
  And so I actually just launched a collective where we're in
• 45:38
  community with each other.
• 45:40
  Because I feel like during this time,
• 45:42
  it can be so isolating and so lonely.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it's hard to talk about things.
• 45:47
  And sometimes it's easier to talk about with pure strangers
• 45:50
  that you are bonding
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: over like the common thing together.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I also have a coaching collective,
• 45:57
  which makes it more affordable because one-on-one coaching can
• 46:01
  be expensive for
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: women.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I just launched a collective.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: So women can come see me and corporations can come see me.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: Both.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: They can go to that website.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
• 46:10
  And I really hope you'll come to Uplifters Live,
• 46:13
  March 13,
• 46:14
  2026,
• 46:14
  downtown Manhattan.
• 46:18
  It's such an amazing day and our guests and our audience get
• 46:23
  together and we share
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_03: stories and we learn from each other and we make friends.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_03: And it's the most beautiful day of the year.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_03: And this year is going to be extra exciting.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_03: extra special.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_03: So I really hope you'll be there.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: I love a little day jaunt to New York.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's Prada Gras.
• 46:41
  We've had so many Michigan guests this year that I feel like we
• 46:44
  need just like a
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_03: Michigan bus or maybe we need Michigan Uplifters.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's what I was just going to say.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: Come to us.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'll come to you.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: This has been so wonderful to see you, Carissa.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah,
• 46:56
  I'm just so glad to be connected and to help other women on
• 47:03
  this journey feel
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_03: supported and cared for.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_03: But also that we get to do that for each other too is really beautiful.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you for coming to hang out with us.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, the community you're creating is so amazing.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad I like literally saw you from that.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, I like your t-shirt.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, thanks.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: Here we are.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me and spreading the different message, right?
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's a different message.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's, you know, don't get overwhelmed.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to suffer.
• 47:31
  Start small and oh,
• 47:33
  by the way,
• 47:34
  if you're a workplace,
• 47:35
  help your women out.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for listening to the Uplifters podcast.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_03: If you're getting a boost from these episodes,
• 47:47
  please share them with the uplifters in your life and then join
• 47:51
  us in conversation
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_03: over at theuplifterspodcast.com.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_03: Head over to Spotify,
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_03: Apple Podcasts,
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_03: or wherever you get your podcasts and like,
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: follow,
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_03: and rate our show.
• 48:04
  It'll really help us connect with more uplifters and it'll
• 48:08
  ensure you never miss
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: one of these beautiful stories.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_02: Big love.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: Painted water,
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: sunshine,
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: with rosemary and tongue Dwelling,
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: not perplexing,
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: though you find it vexing Toss a star and hover,
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: be your own best lover Relish in a new prime,
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: plant a tree in springtime Dance with idle hindsight,
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_02: bring the sun to twilight Lift you up
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: Lift you up.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: Lift you up.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: Lift you up.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_02: Lift you up.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: Lift you up.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: Beautiful.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: I cried.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's that little thing you did with your voice.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_03: In the pre-chorus, right?
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_03: I was like... Mommy, stop crying.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: Mommy, stop crying.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: You're disturbing the peace.