Latest / World Ablaze with George Fontes / Zolal Habibi - The Iranian Resistance and The Fight for Freedom

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Zolal Habibi - The Iranian Resistance and The Fight for Freedom · World Ablaze with George Fontes

0:00
okay welcome zalal habibi to the show i'm glad you made the time all the way from paris thank
0:13
you very much um as we discussed offline one of the reasons i wanted to have you here is i've
0:17
actually i've noticed you uh through social media in the past and i've reached out um but i know
0:22
you're extremely busy i've always wanted to have a chance to talk to you about what's happening
0:25
over there in Iran and what you're involved with, with the NCRI.
0:31
But I have a feeling that you can offer some very unique insights to what's going on with
0:35
the protests, the uprising, and what has been going on since 1979 after the Islamic uprising
0:42
or the Islamic regime took over, well, the extreme Islamic regime anyway.
0:47
But we wanted to go over that.
0:48
And I also want to ask you what got you into being, well, an advocate for change, for representing the voiceless in Iran and being a part of the NCRI?
1:00
First of all, let me just thank you for the opportunity and say hello to all the viewers and listeners who are tuning in.
1:08
It's a pleasure to be with you.
1:10
And sorry if I have missed previous messages.
1:13
But as you said, right now we are in a very critical time.
1:18
Oh, yeah, yeah.
1:19
It was not a big deal.
1:20
I figured you're busy as heck.
1:22
I get it.
1:23
Not a problem.
1:25
Sorry for that.
1:25
But right now in these critical times, we're very grateful for the opportunity to be able
1:31
to share what is happening on the ground and what it is that the Iranian people want.
1:36
And where we're headed to and what is the path forward.
1:42
Because I know that in the past few days, well, everyone saw the momentum on the streets.
1:48
And then today is day 10 of the internet shutdown.
1:52
So there's been radio silence to a great extent.
1:56
But the reality is that protests or it's more like clashes now, but they are continuing on the ground.
2:03
And that is something that's important to note, that the people of Iran aren't giving in and they're not giving up despite all the brutalities and the high death toll and arrest.
2:14
So it's still continuing.
2:16
myself just to give you a background you ask how I got involved to be honest I am from the
2:22
generation who was born after the revolution so unfortunately I did not see the revolution myself
2:29
but growing up I think the situation in Iran has been part and parcel of my life
2:37
throughout all the years and I could actually say that I don't think there has been a day
2:44
that I have not thought about the plight of the Iranian people, despite being away from Iran.
2:50
So I was born abroad in the U.S.
2:54
My parents came to the U.S. before the revolution as students.
2:59
But I think I was about three, four years old when I first met people who were victims of torture.
3:07
And that really opened my eyes to what is happening in Iran.
3:12
even though they would try to hide it from me because I was a child they didn't want me to
3:16
you know to be impacted by that but I understood what was happening and I knew that
3:21
first of all I was very lucky not to have to live under those circumstances but I knew that
3:28
there are a lot of people in the mentality of a child that you know people my age kids like me
3:36
don't have the freedoms that I do.
3:38
So it started with that.
3:40
But in 1988, there was a massacre in Iran
3:46
and 30,000 people were executed, political prisoners.
3:50
That summer really changed my life and my aspect on life,
3:57
especially since my father was also killed that summer
4:00
by the Iranian regime.
4:01
and that made a very big impact on my life because from that moment on I understood that
4:12
not only does the regime see no boundaries when it comes to execution they see no borders too so
4:18
it's no matter where you are you could be affected by the crimes perpetrated by this regime
4:23
and I think from very early on I started even before my father was killed like even as a child
4:31
I remember when my parents, like my mom would go and have, you know, info desks or whatever to try to inform people.
4:38
I was the one who always wanted to be there and wanted to be able to do something for people.
4:43
And so that became part of my like characteristics in a way.
4:48
And I think I was about 12 the first time I got like a signature from a member of Congress in support of Iran.
4:56
So it was that was my calling in a way.
4:59
I wanted to be able to do something for my people.
5:03
But in the summer of 1999, when the student uprisings broke out in Iran, it was the first time that our generation was seeing a massive protest.
5:12
And at that time, it was the first time that was also being televised in a way, because back then it was the start of the cable television and there was CNN.
5:21
And so it was being the world was seeing it for the first time, you know, uprising or protest in Iran.
5:25
And at that point, I had just graduated high school and I was on my way to go and study medicine, actually.
5:35
I had gotten a full scholarship and everything, but I decided to put that all aside and join the immediate resistance instead.
5:42
Because I felt like I can't just be a bystander and watch.
5:47
I need to be a part of this and I need to be one of those who dedicates their lives or even sacrifices their lives.
5:53
So our people, our nation, our history, our future can see a democratic republic in Iran.
6:02
So what is your involvement, though?
6:04
What are you doing yourself personally in the NCRI?
6:07
Was it National Council of Resistance of Iran?
6:12
Yes.
6:13
I am a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee.
6:15
I do a lot of different types of work, both with the Iranian diaspora, the Iranian associations in different capacities, both in Europe and in the US.
6:30
and also in regards to working with lawmakers, parliamentarians, the media,
6:37
and trying to just echo the voice of the Iranian people
6:42
and to try to push forward what it is that the people of Iran are calling for
6:46
and raising awareness on the issues and trying to gain support for the people of Iran.
6:53
And as I said, in different capacities and depending on the issues that are on the table on a daily basis.
6:59
How easy is it, though, to get information in and out of Iran, though, to find out what's really happening versus what's propaganda, for example?
7:09
And how are you able to get your message to the Iranian people itself?
7:13
Because, as you know, the regime is very strict and very much in control of what happens there in terms of communication and information, for example.
7:24
So how are you able to circumvent that and able to get the message across and also to get the voices that are in Iran, like getting those voices heard to the world?
7:34
Well, one of the principal organizations, which is a member of the National Council of Resistance of Iran, is the MEK, the People's Majority Organization of Iran.
7:44
They have a very vast network on the ground inside of Iran.
7:48
we just like for instance in 2024 we saw over 39,000 activities that were carried out by the
7:55
resistance units on the ground and over 3,000 centers of oppression which were targeted by them
8:01
so they have a very vast network inside of them which is one of the main sources of the resistance
8:08
to be able to get obtain information firsthand from on the ground but also I think now the age
8:16
technology has been very helpful in getting those communicated via social media or you know
8:22
messaging apps or whatnot that which are used to be able to make direct contact with people inside
8:29
Iran and obtain that information and vice versa well the Iranian resistance has a satellite
8:35
television it's called Simai Azadi and it is a 24-hour broadcast it's an independent satellite
8:44
the first independent Persian language satellite television,
8:50
which is funded by the Iranian diaspora and the Iranian resistance.
8:55
So what's key is that it's independent.
8:58
I think the only independent satellite television that we actually have
9:03
is other ones that are funded by a government or an entity.
9:06
So at the end of the day, they have to align with that messaging.
9:11
So this is the only independent one.
9:12
So that's why people are able to obtain those messages directly and to hear what is going on, what is being done, what is happening inside of Iran.
9:20
Because unfortunately, because of the censorship, a lot of times people within the country are not aware of what is happening in a different area of the country.
9:28
So getting that information out and also sharing what is happening in the international arena and what is being done by the Iranian diaspora abroad for the people of Iran.
9:40
So that serves as a really strong platform to be able to get the truth out.
9:47
Right.
9:47
But is there not any stumbling blocks, for example, with the Iranian government or the regime of control?
9:55
I mean, I'm sure they're able to find radio frequencies and jam, then restrict communications in general, blackouts as they have now for the past 10 days.
10:03
So I can't imagine it's a constant open-ended communication 24-7.
10:10
is there any resistance to that?
10:13
You're absolutely right.
10:14
I mean, the Iranian regime,
10:15
it's a constant communication war out there.
10:22
It's not, the Iranian regime has really pursued
10:27
every angle that they can.
10:29
Jamming, right now with satellite,
10:31
how strong satellites have gotten,
10:33
the jamming isn't that effective anymore,
10:35
but they do create problems,
10:38
even internationally trying to contact, you know,
10:43
those satellite dishes and everything,
10:45
satellite companies to maybe stop the broadcast or whatnot.
10:49
But we are airing on like five, six different satellites
10:52
so people can reach it one way or another
10:55
because the region can't be censoring all of them.
10:58
But on the other hand, in times like these,
11:00
that like communication is also,
11:03
it is also available on the internet
11:05
for times that there is internet connection.
11:07
and we do have special
11:10
means that have been created
11:12
for people inside of Iran
11:13
to be able to connect
11:15
but right now with the internet connection
11:17
being this radio
11:20
silence that we have
11:21
satellite has not
11:24
been cut off so people are getting a lot of
11:26
those messages but we are
11:27
creating other forms of communication
11:30
there's also
11:32
for instance the radio version
11:34
for people to be able to reach
11:36
should get easier, especially when the bandwidth is low.
11:41
But there are different paths and methods that are being pursued
11:45
to make sure that we can get that message across.
11:49
As I said, the radio angle is being worked on right now.
11:52
So hopefully we'll have a stronger presence on AM, FM radios
11:58
for people inside of everyone to be able to actually reach it.
12:01
So these are things that are constantly being worked on.
12:03
But as I said, I think right now, under normal circumstances, not the past 10 days, but being available on social media platforms and messaging apps and things, that has also been very helpful.
12:20
Of course, that is cut off right now, but the satellite, people are still able to obtain it, even despite the communication breakdown right now.
12:29
No, I understand all that.
12:31
I understand that the internet's very valuable.
12:33
I'm just surprised that they're not doing as some countries doing, blocking IPs, for example,
12:39
traffic in and out from different countries or going in or out of different places for information.
12:45
I mean, the government could literally still restrict even that information online.
12:50
So it almost sounds like what you're saying, though, is really...
12:53
Yeah it kind of exposes the truth in that maybe the regime or the government is not the all all eye in Iran because obviously you finding ways to get around it So it looks like there still
13:07
opportunity, which is a good thing for the people. So let's get to this resistance though, because
13:11
here's what I find fascinating is it took a while for anyone to report on what's happening
13:17
and everybody is suddenly concerned. But this resistance to this regime has been
13:24
over 40 years and it's just now getting the eyeballs it deserves.
13:30
What's different this time though?
13:32
What is it that is different about this uprising?
13:34
Is it the amount of people?
13:36
Is it the consistency and persistence in the resistance?
13:39
Or are people just ready to see Iran free?
13:46
I think that there are a few factors that play into it.
13:49
I think if you look at the uprisings in Iran in the past decade, you see, first of all, you see it's evolving step by step.
14:02
Like, for instance, if you go back like 2017, the uprisings were about the same time they were at the end of December, beginning of January.
14:12
But that was like the end, like the slogans, they spoke themselves.
14:18
Like that was the end of the era of people trying to still have some kind of a hope in reform within the regime.
14:27
So one of the main slogans was reformists, hardliners, the game is over.
14:32
So, you know, that was one phase that passed.
14:35
And after that, you know, this was not a card that the regime could play anymore.
14:39
And then we saw like the 2019 uprisings when it started with the issue of the fuel costs.
14:46
and it spread.
14:48
People started, you know,
14:51
we saw people standing in defiance.
14:53
There was more the use of, you know,
14:56
people trying to protect themselves
14:57
and fighting back the regime and whatnot.
14:59
So that was like one phase,
15:01
but unfortunately it was very short.
15:03
It was about, it lasted about five days.
15:06
It was stopped with the internet crackdown,
15:09
which was a three-day crackdown.
15:11
And unfortunately, 1,500 people lost their lives
15:13
in that process.
15:15
And then we had 2022. In between 2019 and 2022, the reality is COVID bought the regime a lot of time.
15:23
But what we see is like the time between the protests are becoming shorter.
15:29
And each time it's becoming more radical than the previous time and new methods being used.
15:35
One of the things that I think was very important about this new wave was, first of all, the previous ones,
15:41
The waves usually started from other cities.
15:45
This time it started from the capital.
15:48
It started from Tehran, the Tehran Bazaar.
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The Bazaar is the merchants, Iran's merchants.
15:54
It's kind of like the Bazaar is, I guess, equivalent to Wall Street in the U.S.
16:01
So they have a lot of power in society.
16:06
And it's also important to note their historic presence.
16:10
I mean, during the 1979 revolution, also the point when the Bazar joined the uprising, that was a turning point.
16:18
So that's why it had such an importance this time.
16:23
What was important? It wasn't limited to the Bazar and their strike.
16:27
From the first day, within the first few hours, the slogans went from addressing the economic crisis to down with the dictator, down with Khamenei.
16:39
and the next day we saw the students join and so we saw people from literally all walks of life
16:49
but also all the different generations coming together in this protest like for instance in
16:55
2022 you saw that there was parts of society that weren't too involved in the protest this time you
17:03
saw everyone coming together and it soon did spread to different areas like for instance when
17:09
When you look at the protests, you see one of the places that they had the highest, I
17:16
guess, number of clashes and continuous protests was in the western part of Iran and Ilan
17:24
province and other provinces.
17:26
Or like, for instance, we saw the northern part of Iran join the protests, which in previous
17:30
protests, they weren't too present.
17:32
or like for instance Mashhad
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the second largest city of Iran
17:36
like
17:36
over hundreds of thousands of people
17:40
came to the streets some even said
17:42
like a million but you know
17:44
so we saw that presence from all
17:46
you know all walks
17:48
of life we also saw
17:50
all 31 provinces eventually
17:52
joining these protests
17:54
I think
17:56
one of the most important things is the
17:58
nature of the protest first of
18:00
Well, people were very, you saw unity between them.
18:07
A lot of people who were on the ground, they said, we've never seen so much hope in people's eyes.
18:12
That spark of hope and ambition that you saw among people, but you also saw it in their defiance.
18:20
We saw especially the role of the rebellious youth and the resistance units who you saw.
18:25
Well, everyone touched on one thing, that there was a organized factor in there that you could see in some of the videos.
18:34
You could see that there are a few youth.
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They come, they organize people, they keep them on the scene, even despite when the regime attacks.
18:44
And they're able to raise everyone's morale for them to stay and for them to continue.
18:48
and that kind of organized resistance well that's what this resistance has been building for the
18:56
past decade with the resistance units which have doubled annually practically every year in the past
19:02
few years and we also saw like their protesters going on the offensive and that is what the regime
19:09
feared the most uh the reality is the regime fears nothing more than seeing this defiance
19:15
among people. We saw people who were disarming suppressive forces. We saw two adjacent cities
19:23
which were liberated by the people. And we saw that people were setting up barricades,
19:33
using fire to be able to protect themselves, push back to the suppressive forces. And this is
19:39
something that I think is unprecedented to in this extent. And I think one of the most important
19:46
things is that despite people knowing that the regime is using live ammunition, they still come
19:53
to the streets. A lot of people, when they would go to the streets, they would tell, you know,
19:58
they would give their final farewells to their loved ones and their family, and then they would
20:03
still go. So it was a decision that they made with full understanding of what is happening on
20:14
the ground and what the consequences can be, but they're still taking that risk and they're still
20:19
coming to the streets. And I think that the slogans were also very important. I think the people of
20:23
Iran reiterated what it is that they don't want, but they also pointed at what it is that they do.
20:30
Like, for instance, some of the major slogans were like down with the oppressor, be it the Shah or the Mullahs or no crown, no turban.
20:39
We want freedom and liberty, which were like yesterday.
20:42
There was a protest actually in Paris that people were like repeating those slogans that came from on the ground inside of Iran and they were repeating it.
20:50
So people of Iran, I think one of the main messages that we get is they want to be able to make sure that the world hears their message.
20:59
And that is, there is a third option when it comes to Iran.
21:03
First of all, when you look at it from the international perspective, we're not stuck in between.
21:10
The solution to Iran is not either appeasement or war.
21:14
There's a third option, supporting the Iranian people and their organized resistance.
21:18
They have the capability and that capacity to create change.
21:22
the second is we're not stuck when it comes to the solution for Iran the future of Iran
21:29
we're not stuck between choosing between bad and worse we don't have to choose between
21:33
the theocracy ruling Iran right now which is a clerical dictatorship and going back to the
21:40
previous dictatorship with the monarchy and the Shah and his Savak which was also a dictatorship
21:46
The people of Iran revolted for a reason.
21:49
You don't go and take something back out of the trash can and bring it into power.
21:54
We want to look forward to a secular democratic republic where there's people of sovereignty.
22:00
And that's the message that we hear a lot from Iran.
22:03
Yeah, I hear you.
22:04
But the previous monarchy was accused of becoming authoritarian.
22:11
But really, from what I know in research and talk to many people about this, it was really because they didn't like that at that time, they were becoming more westernized in their ideals, right?
22:22
And so that's what I was told.
22:25
Unfortunately, that's not the reality.
22:28
The reality is that the Shah, first of all, if we're talking about some of the issues that exist today right now in the regime, it's a bit more extreme of what it was back then.
22:40
Like, for instance, poverty. There was a lot of poverty back then in Iran. There was a report. Actually, it's in the book of Alam, who was the prime minister of the Shah. And the reality is only 5% of Iran had running water during the Shah's time.
23:01
At the time that the Shah was holding the 2,500-year celebrations and bringing food in from Paris with Concord and whatnot, people were suffering.
23:12
There was Chanty Towns and all over Tehran.
23:16
So there was a major class difference in poverty.
23:21
We also had the Sabah, especially after the coup d'etat against Dr. Mossad, who was the only democratic government that we've ever had in Iran.
23:28
after that
23:31
the Shah ruled with the
23:33
Savar.
23:34
Basically what the world knows
23:37
is being told is all incorrect.
23:39
It really just came down to
23:41
mismanagement, impoverishment,
23:43
etc. It had nothing to do
23:45
with getting away from
23:46
traditional values or whatnot
23:49
or Westernized whatsoever. Nothing?
23:51
I mean the Iranian people are
23:53
in their way of thinking
23:55
they're very progressive
23:57
and modern I mean the issue was not modernization the issue was the fact that first of all one of
24:03
the issues was the Shah was unfortunately a puppet of western government so that that was an issue
24:11
and I mean you know we saw the effects on Iran unfortunately Iran's wealth was being given away
24:21
to keep the Shah in power I mean the Shah to keep himself in power he did their bidding or
24:27
whatever they wanted from him. So that was an issue. But the reality is that we had the
24:32
who was killing people. We had executions, the tortures. A lot of the entities that you
24:38
see today who are the oppressive forces in the regime today, if you go back, those structures
24:45
were created by the Shah. So my father, he was a law student in Tehran University. He
24:54
He was given the chance because he was one of the top students.
25:00
He was given a possibility to become a judge.
25:04
But the thing was, if you wanted to become a judge, you had to push forward what the Shah wants.
25:11
Let's talk about now, though.
25:14
Can you pinpoint exactly what the resistance is really about, though?
25:21
I mean, you've, you've cited poverty, obviously economic conditions, but what is the actual
25:27
oppression out?
25:28
I mean, what, what are they actually resisting?
25:31
Because this has been, it's, it's longer than, than a decade, for example, within the past
25:36
10 years, it's just been, like you said, progressively they become more emboldened in their actions.
25:41
But what, what is it that they're actually resisting?
25:44
I mean, I understand that Iran needs a democratic governance and in my eyes, and I don't live
25:52
there and don you know I not Iranian but it would seem that the separation as you said earlier church and state or taking religion out of the governing body is what really needs to happen So is that part of this uprising Is some of the
26:06
suppression the extreme ideologies that are being imposed on people? Or is it just the economic
26:12
conditions? It is definitely not just the economic situation. I think that if you look at your own
26:19
society today, there's not one single place that you could put your finger on that has not been
26:24
destroyed completely by this region. The people of Iran have reached a point that there's no
26:32
aspect of their lives that they can look forward to and have some kind of a ease of mind in regards
26:40
to. When you go to the streets, you don't know if you're going to be able to come back home safe.
26:45
That's the reality of Iran in the last nearly half a century. There's the suppressive forces.
26:53
There are over 32 different suppressive organs in the Iranian regime.
26:59
Last year, we witnessed 2,200 executions in 2025 in Iran.
27:06
Suppression is really high.
27:08
We see the prisons are overwhelmed with political prisoners, with ethnic groups, people from different diverse ethnicities who are imprisoned.
27:21
And the regime is only able to keep itself in power through suppression.
27:27
Women are suffering in their day-to-day life.
27:32
There's nothing that people have to look forward to.
27:35
Right now, with the economic crisis, that's just icing on the cake now.
27:42
But even right now, if you look at the environment, people don't have running water right now.
27:47
There's water shortage issue in Iran.
27:49
Pezishkian actually just about two months ago said we might have to evacuate Tehran due to the water shortage.
27:57
Iran, which is a rich country, sitting on oil and natural resources, people don't have electricity for like two, three hours a day.
28:05
And that is creating a lot of tension and pressure and problems.
28:11
So, I mean, it's one thing if you say, OK, this is a suppressive regime and does this and that.
28:17
But people are at ease with other issues.
28:21
No, there's not a single issue that you could put your finger on that the people are not just fed up with this regime in its entirety.
28:29
And so the people want change, especially the Gen Z of Iran.
28:31
I think that they understand, especially now, we're in the age of technology.
28:37
They have connections to the outside world.
28:39
They're seeing how the world is going.
28:42
And they know that this is not the norm, what we are suffering in Iran.
28:46
And so they want to see change and they want to see an end to this regime.
28:50
Also, you have to understand that Iran's population has doubled since 1979 until now.
28:56
So it's a very young population.
28:59
And so this generation, they really know that they've seen their parents and their grandparents.
29:05
And they see that if you try to just safeguard yourself, we're never going to end the cycle.
29:11
But we know that no one's going to hand us freedom in a silver platter.
29:14
We have to pay a price for it.
29:16
but we have to bring about that change.
29:19
No one's going to make that change.
29:20
So we have to pay the price.
29:22
And I think that is what's important
29:23
because one of the things that they do say,
29:25
they say, we're alive, but we're not living.
29:28
This is not life, what we have.
29:30
So we need to put an end to it,
29:31
even if that price is our lives.
29:35
But we need to make sure that we could move forward
29:38
into the 21st century.
29:40
Okay, so going back to the other parts of the question though,
29:45
is it needed to take the religion out of the governance, for example?
29:51
Yes.
29:51
Because here's the thing.
29:53
I know a lot of people have their opinions,
29:54
but what I see and what the world sees with Islam,
29:58
I don't think inherently is bad.
30:00
I don't think everybody is bad that practices or partakes
30:03
because there are some people who do it for tradition.
30:06
Some people just see it as a religion.
30:07
And I know Iran is very progressive.
30:09
The people are.
30:11
Now, here's the problem.
30:12
is it really that the regime
30:15
is using the extreme absolute
30:17
extreme view and practice of Islam
30:21
to keep people in line
30:22
and is it just a lie?
30:24
Are they just using that to stay in power
30:25
and they themselves don't even believe
30:28
in what they're doing?
30:29
Is that probably what's really going on?
30:31
Because you see the difference.
30:33
It is the second one that you said.
30:35
I mean, I don't think this regime
30:36
actually believes in Islam itself.
30:38
It's just using that excuse
30:41
to suppress people.
30:44
So the extreme interpretation
30:45
and application of that religion.
30:47
And the reality,
30:48
we see the corruption
30:49
among the top,
30:52
toughest ranks of the regime itself.
30:54
It has nothing to do with this.
30:56
The reality is they just use that
30:58
as a prerequisite to be able to make crimes.
31:00
And that's always been my view
31:02
when I see what's going on
31:03
with how they're, you know,
31:05
working with other proxies and whatnot
31:07
and trying to get people to become militant
31:08
and whatnot.
31:10
So that's why I actually think that
31:11
Yeah, that's why actually in the 10-point plan presented by Mr. Batjami, one of the top issues is separation of religion and state, because we think that that's crucial.
31:24
First of all, religion should have no part in any kind of government because religion is supposed to be a personal choice for people.
31:32
It should not have an effect on their lifestyle or how the government is run or people should not be have special privileges based on that or based on lack of that.
31:45
I think that that's really important.
31:48
And the reality is that every dictatorship,
31:51
they try to find one angle to be able to enter
31:53
the most personal issues and personal aspects of people's lives.
31:59
Because if they have a control over that,
32:01
then they can control all of society.
32:03
And that is what the religion has done throughout these decades,
32:06
especially with its misogynist views
32:08
and also the use of religion as an excuse.
32:13
Well, it doesn't matter if it's religion, media, whatever.
32:17
If you control that in the narrative, you control the minds, you control people's thoughts, really.
32:20
Because if that's all you see and know, and that's all the messaging is, and that's what you become as a nation, it is a method of control for sure.
32:28
What's next, though, in your mind?
32:30
I mean, do you think that this time the regime will be overthrown with everything that's going on?
32:35
Do you think it's actually going to happen this time and that we will see an actual free Iran?
32:39
I think that one thing that's really important to note is that this regime is a very brutal
32:46
bureaucracy.
32:47
It's more complex than a classical dictatorship.
32:50
And while it has been able to really concentrate on keeping its power at whatever the cost.
32:59
But I think what it's really important to understand that a revolution is probably not
33:04
going to be something that's going to happen overnight.
33:06
So we shouldn't, I know that some people are like, oh, is it finished now? Is it over? No, it's not over. This is continuing. But if you think it's going to be that simple, I mean, if this regime was going to be overthrown with just the protests, it would have happened a lot earlier.
33:25
earlier because the Iranian people have been fed up with this regime not for one day or two days or
33:31
10 years or 20 years. I mean practically since 1981 the people of Iran have called for the overthrow
33:36
of this regime. So what's important to note is that this is something that's going to take a bit
33:42
of time even with the Shah it took 18 months for the Shah to be overthrown. So there's probably
33:48
going to be like a lot of ups and downs in the uprisings and the you know how it goes but this
33:55
the regime has turned reached a point of no return and i think that's really important to note
34:01
especially that for instance with these uprisings they started with economic crisis the regime can't
34:06
fix that economic crisis it's getting worse and worse so uh in the previous uprisings the regime
34:13
had to always like they they were willing to like tactically give in somewhere to be able to
34:21
safeguard their power like for instance loosen up a bit on the you know uh on the morality police
34:28
and you know the headscarf and whatnot but keep yourself afloat this time there's nothing that
34:35
they can do about it so this isn't going anywhere this problem this issue is staying and it's growing
34:41
and daily.
34:44
I'm sorry.
34:45
It all seems like this is more than a protest this time, though.
34:47
As you said earlier, people become more emboldened.
34:49
Their actions are much more aggressive.
34:53
They're not backing it down.
34:55
They're dying for freedom, literally.
34:57
I think that is that one aspect that I tried to point out before.
35:01
I think that that is the effect of the resistance units on the ground
35:06
and the rebellious youth.
35:07
That is the new phenomenon.
35:09
I think that the world is starting to see.
35:12
But this is exactly the strategy that the resistance laid out over 10 years ago and
35:17
explained that this is how it's going to be.
35:19
We need these rebellious youth will become the liberation army of Iran and they will
35:27
be overthrowing this regime because, as I said, I mean, especially now, you have to
35:33
understand thousands of people have been killed just last week in Iran.
35:38
those families they're not going to you know just take this right now the thing that the regime is
35:46
doing it's exactly the same tactics they used in 1980s in iran and the people of iran know that so
35:52
that's why it has created this um i don't want to use the word rage in a negative tone to it
36:02
but the positive part of that you know we're not going to let these bloods be lost in vain
36:09
especially because most of them are like teens early 20s families have lost like two three of
36:16
their children in the past few days and the fact that the regime is doing exactly like back in the
36:21
1980s the regime would force families to pay for the bullets used they're doing that again they are
36:27
they would print every day in the newspapers the pictures of these children that we don't even know
36:31
their names come and identify their bodies the regime is doing that again with the i don't know
36:37
if you've seen the videos of the morgues in iran and they have like this screen and one by one is
36:43
showing the pictures of the people for people to identify their loved ones and just imagine putting
36:48
yourself in that place of that mother or that father like every picture that goes by they're
36:53
like is the next one going to be mine or like in a lot of areas they're just they have the bodies
36:58
on the ground, they're like, go and look for them.
37:00
So one by one, they have to put aside these,
37:03
you know, open these bags and see if it's their child.
37:07
I mean, even if it's not your child,
37:11
when you see all of that,
37:12
that is going to create the hatred towards this regime
37:15
that you have to fall.
37:16
This is the final, this is, you know,
37:18
the final nail on your coffin.
37:21
And that is what we're seeing.
37:23
That is the message that we're getting from Iran.
37:25
Like right now, phone calls are very limited.
37:27
like people some people you don't it's only outbound that people can call and you can't call
37:34
to iran and right now between different provinces people can't call one another for the most part
37:41
and sms is also shut down shut up so people who have been able to reach people outside of iran
37:48
the calls are very short one to three minutes but one of their main messages like okay we're fine
37:54
Like, for instance, that person, they tell us, like, they're fine, but we're continuing.
38:00
Don't think that this is dying away.
38:02
We are continuing.
38:03
We're not going to let this go this time.
38:06
So that's the message that they try to continuously give.
38:11
And they're like, just be our voice.
38:13
Tell the people that we're not stopping.
38:14
We're continuing.
38:16
And I think that's really important.
38:18
We saw, like, on Friday in Zahedan, some of the images came out of the protests or, like,
38:23
the nightly protests right now in Tehran and Ilan and Mashhad, we're receiving those videos,
38:31
yes, with delay, with one or two days delay, but we are receiving those. And on the other hand, we
38:37
had, just for your audience to know, like for instance, from January 5th to January 15th,
38:44
despite that it was the protest going on, the regime had 127 people executed during these days.
38:50
So they know that if they stop those executions even for one day what it means for the regime it mean it fall And that is what we seeing right now So why here some questions though So any uprising or change has to start with the people period
39:09
You know, everybody's calling for the help of,
39:12
not everybody, but it seems like,
39:14
oh, they want the U.S. involved.
39:15
I'm not really sure that's really our place.
39:18
But here's the thing.
39:19
Why are we not seeing surrounding neighboring countries
39:22
helping the Iranian people?
39:26
And there's two sides to that point. Just to explain about the previous, I think that Iranian people, for the most part, when you speak to them, they don't want like troops on the ground to help. But there are certain things that the international community can do to help. First of all, I think the international community can really help with the communication and not allowing the regime to create such a blackout.
39:51
The second is to blacklist, like for instance in Europe and the UK, blacklist the IRGC.
39:56
They're the suppressive forces on the ground.
39:58
Iran's economy, for the most part, is in the hands of the IRGC when it comes to the regime.
40:03
So that would have a major effect on it.
40:06
It can't suppress the way it is if it is blacklisted.
40:10
The third is to hold the regime accountable for these war crimes and crimes against humanity that are being carried out right now.
40:18
It's not the 1980s that you say, well, we don't know.
40:21
We didn't see.
40:22
We didn't hear about it.
40:23
You're seeing it.
40:23
You're hearing it daily.
40:25
Do something about it.
40:27
But the most important, I think, is recognize the Iranian people's right to resist and to fight back.
40:33
No, I get that.
40:34
But what I'm getting at is, like, why is, for example, Qatar or Jordan or Turkey, like, why are these countries not helping?
40:42
And it goes to the neighboring countries.
40:44
I'll respond to that.
40:45
The neighboring countries, unfortunately, some of them, I don't think they're too keen about seeing a revolution in Iran because it has a message for their own people too.
40:59
Especially the states that aren't really that democratic, you know, at the end of the day.
41:04
But also they're afraid of the Iranian regime's retaliation.
41:07
Because you have to understand the Iranian regime is the number one state sponsor of international terrorism, especially in the region.
41:14
they have their proxy groups
41:16
they have
41:16
they're worried about
41:19
the ramifications for them
41:22
if this does
41:26
not lead to the overthrow of the regime
41:28
or even
41:30
if it does lead to the
41:32
overthrow of the regime
41:34
what is the regime going to do in its last hour
41:36
in that last minute
41:37
so they are afraid a bit
41:40
and also it is not
41:42
necessarily to their benefit to see a, you know, a true revolution in Iran and seeing the overthrow
41:49
of a dictatorship and what that message has, because Iran has always played a very important
41:56
role geopolitically. Like, for instance, when Dr. Mossadev nationalized Iran's oil, you saw
42:02
how that ripple effect that it had in the region, in Egypt and everywhere else. So that is also
42:09
part of the issue, I think, to some extent.
42:12
They're afraid of the Iranian regime, but they're also afraid of what message it has
42:17
for their own people, too.
42:20
Okay, I get that.
42:23
But to live in fear under the thumb of Iranian proxies, for example, not the Iranian people,
42:30
but you know what I mean, the government and the regime, and live in fear of the potential
42:35
threat of terrorist attacks against them all for the sake of not recognizing a democratic
42:40
state.
42:41
If this happens to me is quite ridiculous.
42:46
So they would rather, sounds like they would rather have this state of affairs continue
42:51
just so that they can continue to be, have their authority over their nations.
42:58
Really?
42:59
Because they don't want to see a democratic governance.
43:01
I think the first one is more on the fear.
43:05
of Iran's reaction and retaliation.
43:08
Yeah, but if they fall and you take it away,
43:11
for example, with everything that's going on,
43:12
you control the money, the sanctions,
43:13
everything that's going on, as you said
43:15
and pointed to earlier,
43:16
like let's not do business with them anymore anywhere.
43:19
It's going to be hard to get everybody to follow suit.
43:20
But if that money is turned off,
43:22
they cannot fund the terrorism anymore
43:24
and it starts to fall apart.
43:26
So it's just strange to me that if you look at it,
43:29
if you look at it from outside looking in,
43:31
you look at Muslims in the Middle East,
43:35
You would expect brothers and sisters to help other brothers and sisters, right?
43:38
They could see the oppression, the deaths, everything that's going on.
43:42
And yet these neighboring countries, I mean, even if they don't do it publicly,
43:47
it doesn't seem like they're even trying to do anything to help the situation, which is ridiculous.
43:51
And so now it's calling to the outside world to try to help.
43:55
I'm with you.
43:56
I don't believe that we need to put boots on the ground.
43:58
I think that people need to rise up.
44:00
but we also can't ignore the situation that there is no support around Iran in the neighboring
44:06
countries for the Iranian people. Also, could the Iranian people leave if they had to? If it got too
44:12
bad, will they take them in? See, there's the other part of it. So it's like, sure, maybe the
44:20
government's there. They don't want to see a democratic, they don't want to see a revolt,
44:23
and they don't want to see Iran become democratic, and then they fear these proxies and terrorist
44:27
attacks, but you can't continue to keep this bottled in, period.
44:32
It's either going to come down to two things.
44:35
Either they're going to have to support and take in refugees because it could turn that
44:38
way, or you're going to have to step in and help.
44:43
That's just what I'm seeing.
44:45
That's what a lot of people see.
44:47
And if you want to cut off Western involvement altogether, fine.
44:50
I'm for that.
44:51
Not meaning not care or help, but I'm talking about militarily.
44:55
I understand.
44:56
We shouldn't be in a war.
44:57
I want to see the people rise up and take over, but why are they ignoring?
45:05
Why are your neighbors ignoring the plight?
45:08
It's got to be more.
45:09
I think that when it comes to the refugee crisis, they already are dealing with this.
45:14
For instance, I think the only country that's major, I mean, it's more like Turkey and the
45:21
Emirates and things like that.
45:22
There are plenty of Iranians who, for years and generations, have been leaving the country through those methods.
45:32
So I don't think it's because it's not going to create a new wave of refugees.
45:37
It's what it is. It's continuous and it has been happening.
45:41
But I do think that you have to understand they also have this disbelief, I guess, that has formed over the decades.
45:50
decades because there have been a lot of points that the world thought this regime is falling
45:56
today and it didn't and that creates this disbelief over time so they're like let's just
46:04
see how far this goes and unfortunately in letting see how far that goes the people of Iran are
46:12
paying that price those days with their blood um so that is something that is happening because I
46:17
I mean, if you look back, for those who might be a bit more informed, like from 1981, there was a point that everyone thought Khomeini was going to fall.
46:27
And then there was, you know, after the eight-year war and then after that, you know, the operations of the National Liberation Army back in 1988, everyone thought this regime is falling and it's finished.
46:38
And, you know, it didn't.
46:42
And Khomeini had the 1988 massacre and he controlled everything again.
46:46
Yeah, but that also goes back to the point that—
46:49
1999, and then 2009, and then 2017, 19, 22, and today.
46:57
It goes back to the point that at some point, the people are going to need assistance.
47:02
It's obvious that the people themselves don't have enough resources and capabilities to overthrow this regime.
47:07
So at what point do they accept outside help?
47:11
and at what point, see, that's what I'm trying to establish and understand is,
47:16
I think they've never been overthrown because nobody has really stepped in to really help the people.
47:23
It's obvious they can't do it on their own.
47:25
We're hoping that this is the case, but it's not, hasn't been.
47:29
So do you think in your eyes that the Iranian people would eventually be open to outside help
47:34
to make this happen, to overthrow the regime?
47:36
Because when you're looking at it, for example, of course, you can't fight this regime
47:41
when recently you see that they just imported 5,000 militant proxy militant troops in from Iraq
47:49
to go into Iran to help suppress the protesters even further.
47:53
So with Iran's reach, if these borders, if everything was happening to where the rest of the world was helping to,
48:00
for example, cut this off, like they wouldn't allow that to happen just by monitoring the situation and say,
48:06
hold on, these 5,000 troops, we're not letting them over.
48:08
So that's the problem.
48:11
Not anybody is really committing to being involved
48:14
to help the Iranian people either.
48:17
So whether it's your neighbors or the outside world,
48:20
as much as we want to see Iran free,
48:22
the people themselves don't have the resources
48:24
to really overthrow this government.
48:27
It's going to take some outside influence or help.
48:30
And would they be welcome to that if they really needed it?
48:34
That, I guess, is the actual question.
48:36
I know they don't want it.
48:38
But will it be needed?
48:42
I think that based on what we're seeing on the ground,
48:47
and unfortunately a lot of it maybe we can't publicly announce or speak about,
48:51
but based on what we're seeing on the ground,
48:53
that people do have the capability to bring about the change.
48:57
And they will be, as I said, using the mechanisms
49:04
and the things that the regime has itself.
49:07
but taking it away from the regime and using it against it.
49:11
So things like that will be happening when that time comes.
49:16
And I think that the people have that possibility.
49:21
But I think that when it comes to international support,
49:25
I think that if the Iranian regime does not receive aid from the countries,
49:32
it can be overthrown.
49:33
But the problem, right, till today, the problem has been even those countries who are giving words of condemnation, but behind the scenes, they're negotiating with this regime.
49:45
They're studying it's good.
49:46
Like right now, all of the systems that are being used for surveillance and face recognition and all of that, it's being sold to the Iranian regime, mostly by European countries.
49:58
They know what it's going to be used for, but they still do it.
50:01
So cut those things off. We can create change ourselves. That is the problem that we have.
50:07
Just look at, for instance, Germany, for one, knows that I think the most cranes sold to Iran are from Germany, based on the information that I remember.
50:18
They know it's going to be used for execution, but they still sell it. So stop.
50:23
You know, these are little, they might seem like little things.
50:27
But look, right now, how is Iran obtaining all these technologies?
50:32
It's mostly from European countries.
50:34
I think right now Iran has maybe support from Russia right now.
50:40
Because look, Iran is in a lot weaker position than it was even last year.
50:46
Hezbollah has fallen.
50:47
This time they brought in 5,000 proxies.
50:50
And I remember specifically, at least in 2009, that they had brought in 20,000 only from Hezbollah, aside from what they brought in from Iraq back then for suppressing the uprisings.
51:03
So the regime doesn't have that power that it used to, to be able to utilize its proxies or even to be able to gain half support from Russia and Syria and whatnot.
51:16
because Russia is four years of war right now.
51:20
They have their plate full.
51:22
They don't really want to get it.
51:23
I don't think they want to get involved in here.
51:26
China, at the end of the day,
51:28
it's not really a life-changing matter
51:31
for the regime to stay in power or not.
51:33
So I don't think they would get themselves involved.
51:35
The regime doesn't have the backings
51:37
that it used to have in the region.
51:39
So that's really important.
51:41
That's what has weakened the regime to a great extent
51:44
because it doesn't have the praxis it used to.
51:46
It doesn't have that possibility that it used to,
51:49
to use for suppression.
51:51
But right now, at this point,
51:52
what's really important is the Iranian people,
51:56
look, we're not asking for troops on the ground,
51:57
but we are asking for a firm policy on Iran.
52:00
We have no problem.
52:01
I mean, please do more.
52:04
But right now, why is like,
52:06
actually, I think there's a tweet from Mrs. Metzola
52:09
from a few days or two, three days ago
52:12
that she stated, look, right now we are raising
52:15
the issue of blacklisting the IRGC,
52:17
but there are certain countries in Europe
52:19
who are preventing it.
52:21
And she named like Italy, France,
52:23
and another country that I just,
52:25
I've forgotten which one.
52:27
But you know what?
52:29
These countries may be saying in words that we support the Iranian people, we stand by you.
52:35
But in action, they're giving a green light to the regime when they drag their feet on blacklist in the IRGC.
52:41
The regime gets these messages.
52:43
It understands like, OK, look, they don't have a problem if I like because look at the statements.
52:50
You have to read between the lines a bit, too.
52:53
We support the peaceful protesters in the streets.
52:55
So if these peaceful protesters have to take up arms to protect themselves, you don't support them anymore.
53:01
So that's what the regime is saying.
53:03
They're like, we are dealing with those who are creating chaos on our streets and using terrorism and whatnot.
53:12
So that's why we're killing.
53:13
Today, the Iranian regime's official gave a statement saying, yes, we have killed 5,000 people in the streets.
53:19
I saw that.
53:21
344,000 wounded.
53:24
But so where is the international reaction?
53:27
That's what we want to see.
53:29
That's all we're asking for.
53:30
We're not asking for anything else.
53:32
And I think that the people really, what we see on the grounds, they do have that possibility
53:38
to be able to create, you know, to overthrow this regime.
53:41
They just want to seize firm policy towards the regime and for governments to stop indirectly,
53:49
even if it's not indirectly supporting the regime.
53:55
I think the response is there.
53:57
I just think people are afraid, as you said earlier.
54:02
I mean, in this case, though,
54:03
entering into a larger, more complex war
54:06
that involves more nations
54:07
because that's always been the issue with Iran
54:11
when it comes to foreign interest and reactions.
54:14
I mean, and I agree with you what you said
54:17
because I just talked to another person
54:19
about this yesterday,
54:20
about Iran and what's happening.
54:23
And she had the same viewpoint
54:25
and I agree with both of you.
54:27
The policy has to be clear.
54:29
Cut off all ties in business with Iran
54:32
or with this regime.
54:34
That's the only way.
54:35
You got to bleed them dry
54:36
in terms of the money
54:37
so they can no longer continue to operate.
54:40
And that's the problem that we saw
54:41
when we had a discussion about sanctions.
54:44
I argue sanctions don't work.
54:45
I mean, if you look at it,
54:46
what would happen with Russia, for example,
54:48
with sanctions. They found a way to do business with India. They found a way to do business with
54:52
China and other places, and then BRICS is created. Iran has some ties to that as well. And while
54:57
Russia may be weakened, for example, you think that they are occupied with Ukraine, don't
55:03
underestimate Russia and their eye on how they want to control the region either. They've tried
55:07
many, many, many, many times over the years. And if they're weak enough, who knows if Russia doesn't
55:13
step in. They may not want to be split in terms of their attention, for example, between Ukraine
55:19
and what's happening in the Middle East, but I still wouldn't count them out. They've been very
55:23
clear over the years about their involvement and what they want to do. And they've always kept a
55:27
relationship with Iran however they could. So I wouldn't count them out. And they are supporting
55:34
each other, both the regime and Russia with technologies and weaponry going back and forth.
55:39
So again, it's not there yet.
55:41
I agree that Russia's not ready to step in,
55:44
but I think if the opportunity was right
55:46
and they were weakened enough,
55:48
Russia could use it as leverage
55:50
to gain even further power
55:52
and favor from the regime
55:54
to prop them back up
55:55
and maybe even, again,
55:57
gain more favors from the regime themselves.
56:00
And that could be dangerous.
56:02
So let's hope that doesn't happen.
56:04
Yeah, I mean, that is always a possibility,
56:06
but I think based on what we saw last year in regards to Syria,
56:11
till now, Russia was one of the main backers of Russia.
56:16
But they didn't support him in the final weeks.
56:21
They supported him by taking him in Well because there was no value anymore That why There no value anymore At that point it like they not going to Russia was not going to step in and try to get into another long drawn out
56:34
war between the people to prop up a dictator.
56:37
When at that point it didn't make any sense anymore.
56:40
So that's why they took him in.
56:41
It wasn't,
56:42
it wasn't because they didn't have an interest.
56:44
It's just like,
56:44
it wasn't worth the cost at that point.
56:46
I think that with the Iranian regime,
56:48
it might be also the same thing.
56:50
I mean,
56:50
when they see,
56:51
and I hope you're right.
56:52
you have to also consider
56:54
Iran's geography. Iran is very
56:56
extensive compared
56:58
to even Iraq and Syria and all of these
57:00
countries. So that also
57:02
comes into play.
57:04
So it is
57:06
different circumstances, I think.
57:09
But I think that
57:10
what sets
57:12
aside Iran from others
57:14
is maybe the fact that there
57:16
is a organized
57:18
resistance.
57:19
right what about the US
57:21
that makes the change
57:23
there is organized resistance
57:25
and it's something that has
57:27
proven that you know gone through the test
57:29
of time with over you know the
57:31
National Council of Resistance of Iran was formed
57:33
44 years ago and so it's not
57:35
just on paper they've proven what they stand
57:37
for in action and what they
57:39
represent and I think that
57:41
gives
57:43
both hope to people inside
57:45
of Iran that they know you know what they're
57:47
getting themselves into what is
57:49
what are the possibilities, but also for the international community,
57:54
it's not like Iran is going to enter like,
57:57
because you hear these scenarios and it's just doesn't make sense with the
58:01
Iranian scenario. The reality is,
58:02
but it is something that is thrown out there. Like the scenarios of, you know,
58:07
civil war and chaos or whatever is going to break up.
58:09
That's not going to be the case. That's, it doesn't match Iran's history.
58:15
It doesn't match its people and like the culture and what,
58:19
the understanding that they have among one another.
58:21
We've had this diversity in Iran for thousands and thousands of years,
58:25
and that's never been a problem for the people.
58:27
They consider themselves Iranian before anything else.
58:30
But also the fact that there is an organized resistance that has a clear roadmap,
58:35
has a plan of action, and they've shown that they stand by their principles.
58:43
Even in times that it might not be the most popular,
58:46
but over time it's been proven that they were right.
58:49
So I think that serves as a great aspect or angle
58:57
or a great asset that Iran has
59:00
that maybe a lot of the other countries
59:02
that we speak about when it comes to revolutions
59:06
or whatever have not had or uprisings and overthrows.
59:10
You're right.
59:11
So I'm going to go back.
59:13
I wanted to get your answer on this, what you thought, though.
59:17
What about the U.S.?
59:18
And what is your opinion on Trump's statements recently when it comes to Iran and wanting to help?
59:24
What's your thoughts on that?
59:27
Well, I think that Iranians were relieved a bit to see, for once, that there's a government in power that isn't, after extending their hands to Khamenei during these times.
59:43
But the reality is that I think that anyone who understands the policies that President Trump has presented in these past few years, he's not looking for any kind of foreign intervention or anything like that.
1:00:03
because that's what he actually presents himself to be opposed to,
1:00:09
not using US resources and troops on the ground or whatnot.
1:00:15
But I think a firm policy is important, and that's what people were looking for.
1:00:21
There are those who, because, to be honest, for instance, you see,
1:00:29
there is factions of Iranians or maybe even other foreign interests
1:00:33
that present themselves in this scenario who try to,
1:00:39
they want to see the US getting involved
1:00:42
because at the end of the day,
1:00:44
they know that the only way they could get their interests met in the future Iran To be able to have some kind of a public government to be able to have someone who would have these affiliations
1:01:01
that they owe something to these Western powers
1:01:04
because now they're in power and whatnot.
1:01:06
So I think that that's something that Iranians don't really want
1:01:09
because we have that experience.
1:01:11
Just look, in the last 100 years,
1:01:14
Reza Pahlavi was brought in by the British.
1:01:16
Mohammed al-Zaphanavi was brought in by the U.S. and the British.
1:01:20
And Khomeini was brought in by foreign Western powers at the time because it was a Cold War.
1:01:25
They saw USSR.
1:01:26
They saw Khomeini was a fundamentalist.
1:01:28
And they thought, well, he will stand in front of the USSR.
1:01:33
So it's to our benefit to have him instead of those actually revolutionary groups who had created the revolution at that point.
1:01:40
And so he was brought in from France after the Guadalupe Conference.
1:01:46
And so the Iranian people have that experience. They just don't want to repeat it again.
1:01:50
They want to be able to take destiny into their own hands and to be able to form a actual democratic secular republic for them.
1:01:58
And these are three key elements. Secularism, as you said, separation of religion and state.
1:02:05
Having in public, so there's people's sovereignty and in democracy where everyone will be, you know, their rights will be safeguarded.
1:02:15
And no matter who you are or from what ethnic background or what political leniency people want to or your gender or whatnot, they want to be able to finally have a democracy and to be able to actually breathe, live.
1:02:31
I think it's not too much to ask for, but it does come with a high price, unfortunately.
1:02:37
But we're willing to pay the price. And that's what we're seeing on the ground right now inside of Iran.
1:02:41
and the Iranian resistance is also willing to pay that price.
1:02:45
And they've stood, 120,000 people have died for this cause.
1:02:51
But we're all willing to give up everything in our lives
1:02:55
to make sure that we reach that final destination,
1:02:58
which is a free democratic republic in Iran.
1:03:04
I think that what you said is something people need to pay attention to.
1:03:10
And here's the thing.
1:03:12
I personally, if you're going to ask me,
1:03:14
I don't think the West needs to be involved in the Middle East at all.
1:03:16
I think over there, it's a completely different culture,
1:03:19
different way of doing things all over.
1:03:23
I believe they should all handle their own issues personally.
1:03:27
I believe the West should have relationships as any nation would,
1:03:31
depending on trade and bartering, whatever it is.
1:03:33
But I don't think we should be involved, the US, France, any of them.
1:03:37
If you need help, that's one thing.
1:03:39
That's reaching out and asking, and then we'll figure it out.
1:03:42
But I don't think we should just be stepping in.
1:03:45
I think Iran needs to become Iran.
1:03:47
They need to become their own nation, free, able to rule themselves.
1:03:51
And I think that goes for anywhere in the Middle East personally.
1:03:54
That's just my opinion.
1:03:56
But that would be the goal.
1:03:58
That's what I would like to see.
1:03:59
And honestly, a lot of Americans want to see that.
1:04:01
We're all tired of being like, we should not be there if we're not needed.
1:04:06
We really shouldn't.
1:04:06
You're not asking.
1:04:07
I don't know why we're there.
1:04:09
So, but if the help is needed, I also say, hey, you know, great.
1:04:12
You tell us how you want it, how you want us involved.
1:04:16
And, you know, we'll come to that agreement.
1:04:17
But yeah, I'm with you.
1:04:19
I don't believe we need to insert ourselves.
1:04:22
We don't need to Westernize the Middle East whatsoever.
1:04:27
You know, you have your traditions, you have your way of doing things, you have your culture.
1:04:30
I mean, you should have that, period.
1:04:32
Shouldn't be forced to become what you're not.
1:04:36
I agree.
1:04:36
And I think that we also have to take into consideration how the regime can manipulate things.
1:04:43
I think manipulation is a major game player right now in this uprising.
1:04:48
It has been from day one of it.
1:04:50
The different narratives that are being fed in the media and from different outlets, they really are mudding the waters.
1:04:58
And unfortunately, it is taking away from the main concentration, which should be the overthrow of this regime.
1:05:04
But the Iranian regime also utilizes these things.
1:05:07
Like for instance, I don't think that scenario is true when it comes to Iran, but the thing
1:05:15
about rallying around the flag once there a foreign enemy I don think with Iranians that is the issue They don rally around the flag of the Iranian regime under any circumstances but they don
1:05:27
want to see their country be attacked by anyone else or something like that.
1:05:33
They have, I mean, it's your country at the end of the day.
1:05:36
You don't want to see that you want, but they do want to see that change.
1:05:40
And there might be questions.
1:05:43
I mean no one can perceive the future so we have I mean it's something that we have to go step by
1:05:49
step step by step and see where it goes but I think what's important is to have that strategy
1:05:56
in place and you know know that you know this is the direction we're going in and why it is that
1:06:01
we need to go into this direction under having that understanding of you know how these different
1:06:06
elements can come into play the effects that they have positive or negative that really gives you
1:06:12
direction to be able to guide through these different obstacles that we're going to face
1:06:17
along the way.
1:06:19
But I think, as I said, the key is that there is a organized resistance.
1:06:27
It's really important for it to be recognized and for people to be able to, you know, be
1:06:35
able to really concentrate on their fight against the regime instead of having to fight
1:06:40
the disinformation and the different narratives that are being fed,
1:06:45
and to really be able to keep that concentration on the people of Iran
1:06:48
and what is happening on the ground.
1:06:50
I think at the end of the day, what happens on the ground is what talks.
1:06:56
That's what we need to pay attention to.
1:06:58
Actions speak louder than words, right?
1:07:01
Anything else you want to say in regards to this situation?
1:07:05
Just monitoring the time because I know you're in Paris,
1:07:07
so you're well ahead of me.
1:07:09
is there anything else you want to say regarding the situation or anything you want to offer to
1:07:13
those of us in the West that we should know? Yeah, I would like to share like a call to action,
1:07:19
I guess, for those who are watching and who want to do something and want to be of help to the
1:07:24
Iranian people. I think if you can, first of all, reach out to your lawmakers and make the request
1:07:31
that we stated.
1:07:33
One, if you're in Europe, in the UK,
1:07:36
blacklist the IRGC.
1:07:38
Two, support the organized resistance
1:07:42
represented by the National Council of Resistance
1:07:46
of Iran and Mesut Meir and Mejabi.
1:07:48
But most importantly,
1:07:49
recognize the Iranian people's right to resist
1:07:53
in the face of the dictatorship ruling Iran
1:07:56
and hold the regime accountable
1:07:58
for its crimes against humanity
1:08:00
and war crimes that are being committed these days as we speak. Those are very key. If you would
1:08:06
like to be active, there are a lot of demonstrations, rallies, events that are being held by the Iranian
1:08:13
diaspora in different countries. If you're in the U.S., you could reach out to OYAC,
1:08:17
its Organization of Iranian American Communities. They could put you in contact with their activists
1:08:23
on the ground in different cities and states in the U.S. In Europe, you could also reach out to
1:08:29
iranfreedom.org and they can put you in contact with those who are organizing here in europe on
1:08:38
the 7th of february there's huge rally going on in berlin in support of the protest for those who
1:08:45
might be tuning in and hearing this from germany um also if you want to receive the latest news
1:08:51
on what is actually happening in the uprising.
1:08:54
Visit ncr-iran.org
1:08:58
or ma'am, M-A-R-Y-A-N-dash Rajavi, R-A-J-A-V-I.com.
1:09:07
Learn more about the business.
1:09:08
Thank you very much for having me
1:09:10
and it was a pleasure to be with you
1:09:11
and hopefully we'll be able to invite you
1:09:12
to a free Iran very soon.
1:09:15
Devils hide behind redemption.
1:09:18
Honesty is a one-way gate to hell.
1:09:21
Bye.