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Rape Victim DEVASTATED After Judge Sets Rapist Free · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace well as a Standford rape
0:15
Speaker 1: case all over again. Remember the name Brock, because I
0:22
Speaker 1: sure do. When a woman is sex assaulted out by
0:27
Speaker 1: the dumpster and the star tennis player walks free because
0:32
Speaker 1: the judge was involved at tennis in Stanford before he
0:36
Speaker 1: took the bitch that caused an outcry like no other.
0:41
Speaker 1: And you think something like that would never happen again.
0:46
Speaker 1: Why do we always think it will quote never happen again,
0:50
Speaker 1: Because guess what, every single time it does happen again.
0:54
Speaker 1: And now another rape victim is left in tears being
1:00
Speaker 1: inflated by a single judge. That's why I hate Ban's trials.
1:06
Speaker 1: When you don't have a jury and you'll let the
1:08
Speaker 1: judge make the decision. You know what. I'm putting the
1:11
Speaker 1: cart before the horse. First of all, take a listen
1:13
Speaker 1: to my old friend Tom Roberts Daily Mail listen. Onty
1:18
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, sixteen year old Cameron Vaughan attended the
1:21
Speaker 1: graduation party. By her own admission, she had too much
1:24
Speaker 1: to drink, so her friends let her fall asleep on
1:27
Speaker 1: a couch. When she regained consciousness, she realized she was
1:30
Speaker 1: being sexually assaulted. The next day, she went to the
1:33
Speaker 1: hospital where a rape kid test Armed with evidence. The
1:36
Speaker 1: Bond family took eighteen year old Drew Clinton to court
1:40
Speaker 1: in October. He was found guilty of criminal sexual assault
1:42
Speaker 1: by Judge Robert Adrian. In events trial, there is no jury,
1:46
Speaker 1: only a judge. Clinton was facing a minimal mandatory sentence
1:50
Speaker 1: in four years in prison, but that all changed on
1:53
Speaker 1: January fourth, when Judge Adrian reversed his decision. According to
1:57
Speaker 1: the court transcript, he said, there is no way what
2:00
Speaker 1: happened in this case that this teenager should go to
2:02
Speaker 1: the Department of Corrections. I will not do that. Mister
2:05
Speaker 1: Clinton has served almost five months in the county jail,
2:07
Speaker 1: one hundred and forty eight days for what happened in
2:10
Speaker 1: this case. That is plenty of punishment. Clinton was set
2:14
Speaker 1: free his guilty conviction overturned. Drew Clinton cannot be charged
2:18
Speaker 1: again under the rules of double jeopardy. Yeah, once you're trying,
2:22
Speaker 1: it can't be tried again. Don't you remember how happy A. J.
2:25
Speaker 1: Simpson was when he was found not guilty. He could
2:28
Speaker 1: never be tried for double murder again. It's called double jeopardy. I,
2:33
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is crime stories thank you for being
2:37
Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and series Sex one eleven.
2:41
Speaker 1: Everybody wherever you are will look around you. I'm looking
2:45
Speaker 1: right now because one out of four women, girls teens
2:51
Speaker 1: around you, at least one out of four had been
2:56
Speaker 1: sex assaulted. Think about it, one out of four. Yet
3:01
Speaker 1: a very minuscule percentage of rape victims come forward. Why
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Speaker 1: because of people like Judge Robert Adrian. Judge Robert Adrian,
3:15
Speaker 1: let's remember his name? What happened to the case? With me?
3:20
Speaker 1: An all star panel to try to make sense of
3:22
Speaker 1: what we know right now? Meghan Disterhaus, PhD, Executive director
3:28
Speaker 1: with the Quincy Area Network Against Domestic Abuse, and she's
3:34
Speaker 1: got a lot to say, as you can imagine. Daryl Cohen,
3:37
Speaker 1: former felony prosecutor and Inner City the Atlanta now private
3:41
Speaker 1: lawyer at Cohen, Cooper, Estep and Allen. Wow, that sounds important.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist joining us out of the
3:49
Speaker 1: Atlanta area specializing indo treatment of women. Founder and director
3:55
Speaker 1: of the Coldcase Research Institute at Coldcase Crimes dot org.
3:59
Speaker 1: Cheryl mccaull and together, she and I and the trenches
4:03
Speaker 1: have seen a lot of rape cases very similar to
4:07
Speaker 1: this one. And I can guarantee you this nobody walked
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Speaker 1: free after a rape, not that if I could help it.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Ron Effelbin joining us E our physician, founder and
4:18
Speaker 1: medical director a first call medical center, and author of
4:22
Speaker 1: Surviving Coronavirus. Wow, that's a whole other canon worms, doctor
4:26
Speaker 1: Ron Efelbin. But first to Matt Hoff, executive editor the
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Speaker 1: Herald Wig Quincy, Illinois. You know a lot of people
4:34
Speaker 1: have never heard of Quincy, Illinois. I know how that
4:36
Speaker 1: feels coming from making Georgia. But this is a heck
4:40
Speaker 1: of a way to get your town on the map.
4:43
Speaker 1: So let's just start at the beginning. Do I have
4:46
Speaker 1: it right, Matt? And please everybody jump in. Don't wait
4:50
Speaker 1: for me to come to you with the question, except you,
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Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen. Matt, do I understand that adults we're having
4:59
Speaker 1: a swim part at their home for a group of
5:02
Speaker 1: teenagers as young as sixteen and willingly allowed them all
5:07
Speaker 1: to get a snoop full to drink and jump in
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Speaker 1: the pool and their underwear. I mean it was a
5:15
Speaker 1: swim party. They didn't think to bring swimsuits. Um my understanding.
5:19
Speaker 1: It was a it was a graduation party. Um, that's
5:21
Speaker 1: uh what the family has talked about. Um and days
5:27
Speaker 1: that's what I'm asking about, Matt Booze. There was alcohol
5:29
Speaker 1: at the party that the teenagers were that the teenagers
5:32
Speaker 1: were consuming. And you know when people, when teenagers drink,
5:37
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes they you know, they'll jump in the
5:39
Speaker 1: pool and maybe they'll jump in their you know, whatever
5:43
Speaker 1: they're wearing. Okay, whatever they're wearing would be clothes, not
5:48
Speaker 1: their underwear. Yeah, but that's that's apparently what happened or
5:54
Speaker 1: uh they she apparently had jumped in to the pool
5:57
Speaker 1: in hunterware according to uh, just her. Let's not single
6:01
Speaker 1: at her. And you know what, I like Thomas Roberts.
6:04
Speaker 1: I worked with him for a long time at H Jillen.
6:07
Speaker 1: But when I get a hold of him, I'm going
6:09
Speaker 1: to grab him by the ear and twist it because
6:11
Speaker 1: he started his report with she admitted she had been drinking.
6:15
Speaker 1: Oh oh, okay, so the rape didn't happen because she
6:19
Speaker 1: had been drinking. Okay, So Matt hop executive editor at
6:24
Speaker 1: The Herald Wig in Quincy at wig dot com. Matt,
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Speaker 1: I'm a JD. That's a lawyer. I'm not a DDS.
6:35
Speaker 1: I don't know how to pull teeth, but I can
6:37
Speaker 1: certainly try. So. I managed to get out of you
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Speaker 1: that people were jumping into the pool in their underwear
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Speaker 1: at the swim party at this private residence where alcohol
6:49
Speaker 1: was being served to teens as young as sixteen. Now,
6:52
Speaker 1: let me understand something, Matt. What is the legal ash
6:55
Speaker 1: to drink in Quincy? Has anybody slap these parents with
7:00
Speaker 1: a lossuit it? I'm aware of me either. I thought
7:05
Speaker 1: maybe you would hurt something or knew of something brewing
7:08
Speaker 1: that I didn't know. But I agree with you, Matt.
7:10
Speaker 1: No lawsuits yet, and that's a big emphasis on yet. Guys.
7:16
Speaker 1: As you can tell, this has all gone sideways. Take
7:21
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut eighteen our friends at Inside Edition.
7:25
Speaker 1: This high school team is furious after a judge set
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Speaker 1: free the student she says raped her after just one
7:32
Speaker 1: hundred forty eight days in jail. Sixteen year old Cameron
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Speaker 1: Vaughan says she was assaulted at a graduation party last May.
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Speaker 1: I woke up and I couldn't really breathe because I
7:43
Speaker 1: had a pillow over my face and I could feel
7:46
Speaker 1: somebody like continue. I said stop multiple times, and you wouldn't.
7:50
Speaker 1: In October, a judge found eighteen year old Drew Clinton
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Speaker 1: guilty of sexual assault, but now he is reversing his
7:58
Speaker 1: decision and releasing Clinton from custody. Mister Clinton has served
8:03
Speaker 1: almost five months in the county jail. Illinois Judge Robert
8:06
Speaker 1: Adrian said last week for what happened in this case,
8:10
Speaker 1: that is plenty of punishment. Plenty of punishment, one hundred
8:15
Speaker 1: and forty eight days in the county jail. Let me
8:18
Speaker 1: ask you this to you, Daryl Cohen, former felony prosecutor
8:23
Speaker 1: now private attorney in the Atlanta jurisdiction, have you ever
8:26
Speaker 1: seen Andy of Mayberry, and you know about the county
8:32
Speaker 1: jail when Otis would walk in the town drunk. I
8:35
Speaker 1: know we don't say that anymore. The town alcohol addicted
8:40
Speaker 1: person comes in and lets himself into the cell and
8:44
Speaker 1: then locks the key and hangs it on the wall. Okay,
8:47
Speaker 1: has well, and give it to me in a nutshell,
8:51
Speaker 1: because I know you're used to making long, loquacious arguments
8:56
Speaker 1: to judge's injury your captive audience. In a nutshell, Why
9:00
Speaker 1: does everybody want to serve time in the local jail
9:03
Speaker 1: versus going into the system in the pen nutsail? Let's
9:07
Speaker 1: talk about Nancy. Let's talk about local jails, not large
9:11
Speaker 1: city jails such as Atlanta or New York or Chicago.
9:14
Speaker 1: Local jails are easy. You get home cooked meals, you're
9:18
Speaker 1: taking care of. You don't have to worry about other
9:21
Speaker 1: violent criminals being around you. It's much easier. It's not
9:24
Speaker 1: a country club, but it clearly is not a prison exactly.
9:29
Speaker 1: It's easy street. So this guy, and he's not a kid,
9:33
Speaker 1: he is eighteen years old, does one hundred and forty
9:37
Speaker 1: eight days behind bars at a local jail, and after
9:41
Speaker 1: there is a bench trial where the case is tried
9:44
Speaker 1: in front of a judge, not a jury. FYI to
9:47
Speaker 1: all you lawyers out there and anybody listen, don't do that.
9:51
Speaker 1: Do not have a bench trial. You never know what
9:53
Speaker 1: a judge is going to do. The judge himself can
9:56
Speaker 1: vix this guy of rate on a sixteen year old
10:01
Speaker 1: girl who wakes up with a pillow over her face
10:04
Speaker 1: being raped. According to her, The judge finds him guilty
10:09
Speaker 1: on one of the four accounts. The penalty for criminal
10:12
Speaker 1: sex assault and that jurisdiction is four to fifteen years.
10:16
Speaker 1: As I recall, Matt, four to fifteen so he gives
10:20
Speaker 1: them that would be correct for a class one colony. Yes.
10:23
Speaker 1: So when it comes time a month later for sentencing,
10:26
Speaker 1: they all come in the courtroom for the sentencing and
10:29
Speaker 1: the judge suddenly reverses his own decision and says one
10:34
Speaker 1: hundred and forty eight days is enough and lets the
10:38
Speaker 1: rapist walk free. Prime Stories with Nancy Grace. All right,
10:57
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCallum, let me understand, this wasn't the girl. She
11:01
Speaker 1: wakes up in tears. She calls her father, which tells me,
11:05
Speaker 1: this really happened. The last thing you're going to do
11:08
Speaker 1: after consensual sex at age sixteen is call your father
11:11
Speaker 1: to come pick you up. Okay, that's not going to happen.
11:14
Speaker 1: She calls her father, He comes and picks her up,
11:16
Speaker 1: and Matt Hopp the Harold Wig. Don't they go to
11:21
Speaker 1: the hospital and get a rape kit? What happened. What
11:24
Speaker 1: happened was after the party, they had went to another
11:28
Speaker 1: acquaintance's house where she was going to I believe, spend
11:31
Speaker 1: the night, and that was the location where the sexual
11:38
Speaker 1: assault occurred. And after that, after she had said she
11:44
Speaker 1: had pushed mister Clinton off of her, that she went
11:49
Speaker 1: she went in to another room to speak to a friend,
11:51
Speaker 1: and they apparently took her back to her her house
11:55
Speaker 1: where they just spent the night in their parents her
11:59
Speaker 1: parents r V and then the next morning she told
12:02
Speaker 1: she told her father, who called the police, and it
12:05
Speaker 1: was the police who transferred to the hospital for the
12:09
Speaker 1: rape kit. We did the rate occur, Matt hop It
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Speaker 1: was at a at another home. It wasn't at where
12:17
Speaker 1: the party took place. It was like a like a
12:20
Speaker 1: friend's home. And how was the defendant, Drew Clinton related
12:24
Speaker 1: to the party house. I don't know how he was
12:28
Speaker 1: related to the party house. I just know that he
12:30
Speaker 1: was there. It might have been he might have been invited,
12:33
Speaker 1: He might have known somebody there. M okay. Back to
12:36
Speaker 1: Sheryl mccollin, director the Cold Case Research Institute JUMP in Nancy.
12:40
Speaker 1: A lot of men wonder why women crochet vagina hats
12:43
Speaker 1: and wear them in March on Washington. It's because a
12:46
Speaker 1: crap like this. You and I started our careers in
12:50
Speaker 1: domestic violence and Great Crisis, and we are having the
12:53
Speaker 1: same conversations that you and I had thirty years ago.
12:57
Speaker 1: It is absolutely maddening that you're gonna sit there even today,
13:03
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about She was drinking and she went
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Speaker 1: skinny dipping, and what she was wearing and where she
13:09
Speaker 1: passed out. Nobody's talked about him. Nobody's talking about what
13:13
Speaker 1: he had to drink, what he was wearing, whether or
13:14
Speaker 1: not he went skinny dipping, he wasn't wearing. And that's
13:17
Speaker 1: his pants, all right, So let's just starting that, and
13:22
Speaker 1: she cheryl that after she pushes him off her, she
13:31
Speaker 1: yanks up her own pants and he just jumps up
13:35
Speaker 1: and starts playing video games like nothing happened. Okay, hold on,
13:40
Speaker 1: I need a shrink on this. Doctor Angela Arnold renounced
13:42
Speaker 1: like Kaliatrice joining us out of Atlanta. He can find
13:46
Speaker 1: her at Angela Arnold MD dot com. Angela jump in, Nancy.
13:52
Speaker 1: If people haven't worked with rape victims, then they have
13:56
Speaker 1: no clue how hard it is for a rape victim
14:00
Speaker 1: who come forward. This little girl at sixteen year old
14:04
Speaker 1: years old comes forward, and now a judge has emboldened
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Speaker 1: her rapist. And let's think about something, Nancy. Not every
14:15
Speaker 1: boy in the country ripes a girl just because there
14:20
Speaker 1: might be an opportunity to do so, because she might
14:22
Speaker 1: be passed out. So there is something wrong with this boy. Okay, Yeah,
14:28
Speaker 1: he's a sexual predator and he always will be, and
14:33
Speaker 1: now he's been emboldened by this judge. Take a listen
14:36
Speaker 1: to our friend Dave Matt at crime online dot com
14:40
Speaker 1: our cut seven. The parents of Cameron Vaughan have provided
14:43
Speaker 1: a copy of the Quincy Police Department report to the
14:47
Speaker 1: Harold Wig that detail what they say took place at
14:50
Speaker 1: a Memorial Day weekend graduation party. According to sixteen year
14:54
Speaker 1: old Cameron Vaughn, she attended the party, got drunk, went
14:57
Speaker 1: in the pool, and eventually passed out. She told police
15:00
Speaker 1: that she woke up with a pillow being pushed on
15:02
Speaker 1: her face and that she was being sexually assaulted by
15:05
Speaker 1: Drew Clinton. Clinton is from Michigan but used to attend
15:08
Speaker 1: Quincy Public schools. Cameron says she told Clinton to stop,
15:11
Speaker 1: but he didn't until she told him a second time
15:14
Speaker 1: and pushed him off her. According to the police report,
15:17
Speaker 1: Cameron went into a bedroom in the house, where she
15:19
Speaker 1: told a friend what happened. She got a ride back
15:21
Speaker 1: to her home with two friends, where they slept in
15:23
Speaker 1: her parents' camper before they went into the house in
15:26
Speaker 1: the morning. Once inside the house, Cameron told her father's
15:29
Speaker 1: good Vaughn, at which time he called the police. Two
15:33
Speaker 1: special guests joining us, the executive director of the Quincy
15:35
Speaker 1: Area Network Against Domestic Abuse, Megan dister House. Megan, thank
15:41
Speaker 1: you for being with us, you know, grateful to be here.
15:44
Speaker 1: One thing that was very important to me when I
15:48
Speaker 1: prosecuted rape cases, and I prosecuted more of them than
15:52
Speaker 1: I can even count or remember, is outcry outcry? What
15:57
Speaker 1: is outcry? Outcry is a technical legal word actually when
16:05
Speaker 1: in the case of rape accusations or other felonies, and
16:10
Speaker 1: it refers to a victim at the time contemporaneously with
16:15
Speaker 1: the crime making an outcry, in other words, telling someone
16:20
Speaker 1: what happened. We're seeing it right now in the Epstein
16:26
Speaker 1: Jelene Maxwell case where Virginia Jeffries, we now know, made
16:31
Speaker 1: an outcry about Prince Andrew having sex with her when
16:34
Speaker 1: she was sixteen at the time. We're hearing now, all
16:38
Speaker 1: these years later about an outcry witness this young girl
16:43
Speaker 1: just sixteen makes outcry to her friends and then goes
16:50
Speaker 1: and tells her dad. And I can tell you this much.
16:52
Speaker 1: If that had been consensual sex with another team boy,
16:55
Speaker 1: the last thing she would have done is go in
16:58
Speaker 1: and say Hey, dad, guess what happened last night? That
17:01
Speaker 1: is not going to happen Megan, Well, I think that's
17:05
Speaker 1: what's really happened here is this judge in this case,
17:08
Speaker 1: he made all these statements in court on the record
17:11
Speaker 1: to the victim in her family. And when you're going
17:14
Speaker 1: into a trial like this, you always want to make
17:16
Speaker 1: sure that you're a victim understands that court cases, whether
17:19
Speaker 1: it's a bench trail or jury trial, can really go
17:21
Speaker 1: either way in sexual assault cases, and you want the
17:24
Speaker 1: victim to be prepared that there might not be a
17:26
Speaker 1: conviction and that the perpetrator might get to walk. But
17:30
Speaker 1: what we typically don't have to prepare them for is
17:33
Speaker 1: that they might be chastised by the judge in open
17:36
Speaker 1: court on the record. Have their parents chastis when they
17:41
Speaker 1: were in court for a sentencing where they I believe
17:43
Speaker 1: they're meant to be there to read their victim impact states.
17:46
Speaker 1: So this young woman came into court prepared to hell
17:50
Speaker 1: the court how she had been impacted and affected after
17:53
Speaker 1: this installed and instead she got a verbal diatribe from
17:57
Speaker 1: the judge. What was she chest tied about, Megan um
18:02
Speaker 1: the fact that she was drinking underage, that she attended
18:05
Speaker 1: a party and got in a pool and didn't have
18:07
Speaker 1: a suit, so we're underwear like and from an advocacy
18:10
Speaker 1: advocacy perspective, none of that matters, Like absolutely matters. I'm sorry,
18:16
Speaker 1: it does matter. Okay, you are gonna have to take
18:21
Speaker 1: your turn. It'll be a cold And I where that
18:24
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen didn't have a drink when he was sixteen.
18:26
Speaker 1: First of all, just for safety reasons, Jackie, let's mute him,
18:31
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, just for just for a moment, please finish
18:34
Speaker 1: Megan Dister House. Yes, it doesn't. It doesn't matter in
18:38
Speaker 1: the sense that when you make a risky decision or
18:41
Speaker 1: an unmoisted choice, like let's say, underage drinking um and
18:45
Speaker 1: you get maybe arrested for that, the penalty is usually
18:48
Speaker 1: like you know, a fine, a drinking ticket. You might
18:50
Speaker 1: have to do some community service for a nonprofit. The
18:53
Speaker 1: penalty for underage drinking is not raced. And also, swimming
18:58
Speaker 1: in your underwear, even swimming dude, running around naked is
19:02
Speaker 1: not an invitation for sexual assault. People are able to
19:05
Speaker 1: control themselves. It is absolutely offensive to men to suggest
19:09
Speaker 1: that because they may see someone in their underwear or
19:12
Speaker 1: through the pool that they will later not be able
19:15
Speaker 1: to control themselves. Nancy, And I'd like to point something
19:17
Speaker 1: out also, was everybody raped at this party? Exactly? She
19:22
Speaker 1: was not the only one jumping in and her underwear
19:26
Speaker 1: so to do even occur at the party. The rape
19:30
Speaker 1: was at like a third location. Time stories with Nancy Grace. Okay,
19:50
Speaker 1: Darryl Cohen, before you start your rant, let me ask
19:54
Speaker 1: you one question and this is a yes no answer.
19:58
Speaker 1: Darryl Cohen, veteran trial lawyer joining me out of Atlanta.
20:01
Speaker 1: Isn't it true that when you prosecuted rape cases, you
20:06
Speaker 1: prosecuted cases where a victim may have been drinking at
20:11
Speaker 1: the time of the rape, may have been using drugs
20:13
Speaker 1: at the time of the rape, may have been a
20:15
Speaker 1: prostitute at the time of the rape, may have been
20:18
Speaker 1: on a date at the time of the rape. Isn't
20:21
Speaker 1: that true? Yes, that's a yes no. So now you're
20:27
Speaker 1: a defense attorney, you want it the other way? Okay,
20:30
Speaker 1: have that it. We're ready for you. No, Nancy, if
20:32
Speaker 1: this girl was drunk, there's a difference between drinking and drunk.
20:37
Speaker 1: Did this actually happen? Obviously it did. Did this happen
20:42
Speaker 1: as a rape? We don't know that. Are there other witnesses?
20:45
Speaker 1: I wasn't at that trial, but let's not castigate everybody.
20:49
Speaker 1: I like bench trials when my client is innocent. I
20:55
Speaker 1: love jury trials if I think my client is guilty,
20:58
Speaker 1: because twelve minuted women can sometimes be convinced and confused.
21:03
Speaker 1: Where I want that judge who if I know him
21:05
Speaker 1: or her, I know how they will think. And that's
21:08
Speaker 1: why I want a jury trial, come hell or high water.
21:13
Speaker 1: Don't care who the judges, don't care who the defendant is,
21:16
Speaker 1: don't care who the victim is. I trust a jury
21:19
Speaker 1: more than I trust some political hack appointee up on
21:23
Speaker 1: the bench that really doesn't even know the law. But
21:26
Speaker 1: that's just me because I like well true verdict, a
21:29
Speaker 1: verdict that speaks the truth. But hold on, if you're
21:31
Speaker 1: still not convinced this girl was raped, even though this
21:35
Speaker 1: jack ass judge then later reversed his own verdict and
21:40
Speaker 1: let the defendant go, this girl and her father go
21:44
Speaker 1: for a rape kit. Let me go to doctor ron
21:47
Speaker 1: Ethelbyne e er physician and founder and medical director at
21:52
Speaker 1: First Call Medical Center, now doctor Elfinbyne. I know that
21:58
Speaker 1: in medical school it is very, very intense and you
22:02
Speaker 1: deal with so many life and death situations. But I'm
22:07
Speaker 1: going to ask you a very practical question in the
22:12
Speaker 1: e R where you practice now, which I think must
22:15
Speaker 1: be one of the most stressful positions for a doctor.
22:20
Speaker 1: I mean, you could be out in Beverly Hills doing
22:22
Speaker 1: plastic surgery, pumping up people's lips and sucking out there
22:26
Speaker 1: fat and all that. But instead you're on the front line,
22:30
Speaker 1: and I consider that God's work. That's just me, Doctor
22:34
Speaker 1: Elfin Byne, again, thank you for being with us in
22:38
Speaker 1: the emergency room. That is where you typically see rape victims. First, correct? Correct?
22:46
Speaker 1: What is a rape kit? What did this team girl
22:49
Speaker 1: have to endure in order to make her case? And
22:53
Speaker 1: please just be blunt. Yeah, So before I guess, I'm
22:56
Speaker 1: just curious because I've I've been listening to the whole conversation.
22:59
Speaker 1: Why would the esecutor allow us to go forward at
23:01
Speaker 1: defense trial? Why we didn't they ask for a jury trial? Okay, Darrell,
23:06
Speaker 1: jump in there. Jurisdictions where the prosecution has no choice,
23:12
Speaker 1: in Georgia they now do quite frankly. Perhaps the prosecution
23:18
Speaker 1: had state's attorney had no ability to say no, he
23:22
Speaker 1: or she could have said I don't agree, but in
23:25
Speaker 1: that jurisdiction, apparently the prosecution either didn't care, agreed with
23:30
Speaker 1: the request, or didn't have the stand. Need to stop it?
23:34
Speaker 1: Can I just enjoy the moment when I actually get
23:36
Speaker 1: to tell a doctor something that they don't already know,
23:38
Speaker 1: which is never ever, Doctor elphin Vine, He's actually right.
23:44
Speaker 1: The Constitution is written to protect the defendants, so in
23:46
Speaker 1: some jurisdictions, the defendant could have the right to demand
23:51
Speaker 1: a bench trial just as they can demand a jury trial.
23:54
Speaker 1: Lucky for me, I would always throw a g gi
23:57
Speaker 1: enormous fit in the courtroom if anybody wanted a bench trial. Now,
24:03
Speaker 1: once in a while, I think there were two occasions
24:07
Speaker 1: I went along with it. And I'll tell you why
24:10
Speaker 1: I don't like bench trials. You know, actually this case,
24:13
Speaker 1: doctor Elphinbine, you got a tiger by the tail. You
24:16
Speaker 1: can't hold on and you can't let go. And what
24:19
Speaker 1: I mean by that is, if you throw a fit
24:23
Speaker 1: and don't want a bench trial, then the judge thinks it,
24:27
Speaker 1: takes it personally. The judge takes it personally that you
24:29
Speaker 1: don't want them to hear their case. But then if
24:32
Speaker 1: you go along with it and agree to the bench trial.
24:35
Speaker 1: Then you have some a doubles that's a technical legal term,
24:39
Speaker 1: like judge Robert Adrian hear your case and totally destroy it.
24:43
Speaker 1: So you're in a quandary. Do you placate the judge
24:47
Speaker 1: and go along with the bench trial thinking you got
24:49
Speaker 1: a great case and what idiot could come up with
24:52
Speaker 1: a not guilty? Or do you throw a fit and
24:57
Speaker 1: go with a jury trial and have the judge rule
24:59
Speaker 1: against you every time you have emotion? So it's a
25:02
Speaker 1: legal quandary. Well, oh, doctor Elphinbine, rape kid, I hope
25:06
Speaker 1: you aren't just avoiding the question of what a rape.
25:10
Speaker 1: I always kicked it off with pubic combing, which nobody
25:14
Speaker 1: wants those two words and the sentence together. Go ahead,
25:18
Speaker 1: you be my guest, doctor Elphin blind. What happens kempus?
25:22
Speaker 1: I'm laughing at this topic. I'm sorry it's very inappropriate,
25:24
Speaker 1: but this is an interesting conversation. So, um, what happens
25:29
Speaker 1: when a patient comes in with an alleged assault, be
25:31
Speaker 1: a sexual or otherwise. The first person that sees the patient,
25:34
Speaker 1: obviously is the triage nurse and they just take the
25:37
Speaker 1: story from the patient. They do their vital signs and
25:39
Speaker 1: then they put them into a room and then the
25:41
Speaker 1: er physician will come in and assess the patient. And
25:44
Speaker 1: if the er physician believes that there's any question of
25:47
Speaker 1: in this case, sexual assault, um, you know, basically my
25:50
Speaker 1: job would be to look at the patient as a whole,
25:53
Speaker 1: talk to the patient, but I don't do an actual
25:56
Speaker 1: rape exam on the patient. I call what's called the
25:58
Speaker 1: forensic nurse. Believe, every jurisdiction in the country, at least
26:01
Speaker 1: that I'm aware of, as far as the emergency rooms
26:03
Speaker 1: have these available, and the forensic nurse is somebody who
26:07
Speaker 1: who comes in after I've assessed the person, me being
26:10
Speaker 1: the er doctor. After I've done my assessment and determine
26:13
Speaker 1: that there's no life threatening problem and the patient is
26:16
Speaker 1: medically stable. At that point, the forensic nurse comes in
26:20
Speaker 1: and they do their assessment. Now what that involves things
26:22
Speaker 1: like they do a full palblic exam, so obviously they
26:25
Speaker 1: insert a They do it as saily as possible because
26:29
Speaker 1: they want to maintain the chain of custody and they
26:31
Speaker 1: want to be able to obtain any evidence. And generally
26:34
Speaker 1: the police will be involved at this point as well.
26:36
Speaker 1: If it's an alleged sexual assault. So the police have
26:38
Speaker 1: also seen the patient, taken their story, taken pictures of
26:41
Speaker 1: the patient, and then they're involved with the forensic nurse.
26:45
Speaker 1: They work together to identify if there's a vaginal laceration
26:48
Speaker 1: or vaginal tear, there's bleeding, there's traumas in the area,
26:52
Speaker 1: or erectile doesn't have to be vaginal, the police, will
26:57
Speaker 1: you get involved, take pictures that sort of thing. The
27:00
Speaker 1: forensic nurse at this point is gathering evidence, they are
27:04
Speaker 1: obtaining any team and if there is any again taking pictures,
27:10
Speaker 1: and then they write this whole thing up as their
27:11
Speaker 1: assessment based on what their experience tells them. And then
27:15
Speaker 1: we all get together and huddle up my Dolph, the
27:18
Speaker 1: forensic nurse, and the police, and we discuss the case,
27:23
Speaker 1: not so much from my perspective as you know, the
27:26
Speaker 1: potential for rape, because that's not really why I'm there.
27:29
Speaker 1: I'm not a judge, I'm not a jury nor my
27:32
Speaker 1: an attorney. So I'm there to make sure the patient
27:33
Speaker 1: is getting what she needs to or she needs to get,
27:36
Speaker 1: and that they're taking care of and that all their
27:38
Speaker 1: medical issues are being taken care of. We will discuss
27:41
Speaker 1: things like post exposure prophylaxis for things like HIV and
27:46
Speaker 1: hepatitis and things like that. So we decide whether or
27:49
Speaker 1: not we want to give the patient medication based on
27:52
Speaker 1: their story and based on what the nurse has found
27:54
Speaker 1: to keep them from catching any any potential sexually transmitted
27:59
Speaker 1: diseases UM. And at that point, the forensic nurse seals
28:03
Speaker 1: the evidence that they have. They have a special way
28:05
Speaker 1: to do all this and I'm sure you're more familiar
28:07
Speaker 1: with it than I am, regarding chain of custody, and
28:10
Speaker 1: then that is handed over to the police and the
28:12
Speaker 1: police take it from there, and then the nurse writes
28:15
Speaker 1: her his or her assessment and then that becomes part
28:17
Speaker 1: of the chart and part of the evidence. Dodger elphin Vine,
28:21
Speaker 1: you left out the pubic combing. I'm sorry, so you
28:26
Speaker 1: can laugh all you want. Have you ever had one done? No? No,
28:29
Speaker 1: So they do. They do look at the pubic hair
28:34
Speaker 1: and they go through that as well to make sure
28:37
Speaker 1: that there's nothing with a fine tooth comb. Yeah. Time
28:56
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. So my question do you share
29:01
Speaker 1: on McCollum, Who in the hay would sign up for
29:05
Speaker 1: that exactly? And vaginal exam and then maybe having photos
29:13
Speaker 1: taken of your vaginal and anal area. Who would do
29:17
Speaker 1: that unless it was someone insistent that they had been raped. Nancy,
29:23
Speaker 1: Let's break this down. This weak, pitiful predator selected an
29:29
Speaker 1: easy target. We call them a soft target. This sixteen
29:33
Speaker 1: year old victim was drunk, unconscious, and a sleep She
29:40
Speaker 1: is the perfect victim for a rapist, and he was
29:43
Speaker 1: counting on the fact that she would be too embarrassed
29:47
Speaker 1: and maybe have a foggy memory and she would not
29:50
Speaker 1: report it. He picked the wrong victim. Well put. Speaking
29:55
Speaker 1: of the victim, let's hear cuts and typically we would
29:59
Speaker 1: high the victim's face and name, but she has broken
30:03
Speaker 1: her silence after she ran out of the courtroom in tears,
30:07
Speaker 1: feeling as if she were going to vomit, when the judge,
30:11
Speaker 1: all on his own, reversed his own guilty of art
30:14
Speaker 1: and let her rapists walk free. Take a listen to
30:16
Speaker 1: our cuts eleven and twelve together. This is Cameron Vaughan
30:20
Speaker 1: speaking to WGEM. I immediately had to leave the courtroom
30:23
Speaker 1: and go to the bathroom. I was crying. I think
30:26
Speaker 1: every other girl should know that this is a normal
30:28
Speaker 1: thing and they need to come out with what happens
30:29
Speaker 1: to them and not just let the guy get away.
30:32
Speaker 1: Does it bring back the memory? As I mentioned earlier
30:36
Speaker 1: a brock Turner, take a listen to our cut thirteen
30:41
Speaker 1: our Friends at NBC. A jury found a Stanford University
30:44
Speaker 1: swimming star guilty of three felony sexual assault crimes. He
30:48
Speaker 1: could have served more than a decade in prison. Instead,
30:52
Speaker 1: he got three years probation and will serve three months
30:55
Speaker 1: in county jail. I think that this sentence is inappropriate.
31:01
Speaker 1: Stanford law professor Michelle Dauber is outraged by Judge Aaron
31:04
Speaker 1: Persky's sentence and is leading an effort to get him
31:07
Speaker 1: off the bench. Getting good grades or swimming fast, or
31:11
Speaker 1: being good at lacrosse is a basis for giving you
31:14
Speaker 1: an exception from the California state minimum penalties, then basically
31:20
Speaker 1: what you're saying is it's open season on college women.
31:23
Speaker 1: The judge cited the defendant's age and lack of criminal
31:27
Speaker 1: record at the sentencing. The victim, who admits she was
31:30
Speaker 1: drunk the night of the assault, wrote a thirteen page
31:33
Speaker 1: letter to the judge urging prison time and an apology.
31:36
Speaker 1: I was found unconscious, bra pulled out of my dress,
31:40
Speaker 1: but naked all the way down to my boots, legs
31:43
Speaker 1: spread apart and had been penetrated by a foreign object.
31:47
Speaker 1: She was right. Rock Turner was a swimming star and
31:51
Speaker 1: the judge in the case had been affiliated with Stanford Swimming.
31:55
Speaker 1: So what toll has this incident taken on the rape them?
32:00
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut three Blake Salmon, a
32:04
Speaker 1: wge n Her dad, Scott says the fallout has been swift.
32:09
Speaker 1: My family is destroyed because of this, He says. Cameron
32:12
Speaker 1: used to be an honorable student at Quincy High School
32:14
Speaker 1: who ran cross country and track and field. Now she's
32:17
Speaker 1: lucky to carry a CEA average and she's dropped out
32:20
Speaker 1: of all sports. All of her learning is at home
32:22
Speaker 1: now she can't go to school. But Cameron says what
32:25
Speaker 1: happened to her shouldn't stop other victims from seeking justice.
32:29
Speaker 1: I think every other girl should know that this is
32:31
Speaker 1: a normal thing and they need to come out with
32:32
Speaker 1: what happens to them and not just let the guy
32:34
Speaker 1: get away. How Scott Vaughan says his family could file
32:37
Speaker 1: a civil case, but they're not planning on doing so.
32:40
Speaker 1: To make a dister House joining US Executive director Quincy
32:44
Speaker 1: Area Network against Domestic Abuse. What has this judge is ruling,
32:49
Speaker 1: Judge Robert Adrian's ruling done to victims all across the country.
32:54
Speaker 1: But you know, I have been getting messages and emails
32:57
Speaker 1: from people not just across the country, but internationally. I
33:00
Speaker 1: woke up to an email today from someone in Sweden,
33:04
Speaker 1: and what I keep hearing is how deeply deeply disturbed
33:07
Speaker 1: people are by this story, usually followed by a paragraph
33:11
Speaker 1: in which they disclose and a thought that has happened
33:13
Speaker 1: to them previously in their lifetime, that in most of
33:16
Speaker 1: these cases they were unable to report. So you have
33:20
Speaker 1: a bunch of people out there with you know, unhealed,
33:22
Speaker 1: unaddressed traumas being triggered right now, and you know they're
33:27
Speaker 1: angry and they're hurting. Take a listen to Cameron herself
33:32
Speaker 1: speaking our Cuts nine In ten, I woke up at
33:36
Speaker 1: my friend's house with a pillow over my face so
33:39
Speaker 1: I couldn't be heard, and drew Clinton inside of me.
33:42
Speaker 1: It made me seem like I thought for nothing and
33:45
Speaker 1: that I left, like put my word out there for
33:47
Speaker 1: no reason. Her word is probably more far reaching now
33:53
Speaker 1: than it would have been had they defendant done his
33:56
Speaker 1: jail time. Back to Matt Hopp's Special Guests, joining us
33:59
Speaker 1: the exact editor with the Herald Wig there in Quincy, Illinois.
34:03
Speaker 1: Matt tell me what has to fall out, Ben as
34:06
Speaker 1: it relates to Judge Robert Adrian. I understand that following
34:10
Speaker 1: his reversal of his own guilty verdict on the defendant
34:14
Speaker 1: Drew Clinton, he then threw the prosecutor out of court.
34:20
Speaker 1: On another case, the prosecutor came into court on a
34:24
Speaker 1: car crash I believe that killed four people following the
34:27
Speaker 1: rape case, and the judge said, get out. My wife
34:31
Speaker 1: showed me online where you liked a post that attacked me.
34:38
Speaker 1: I can't be fair to you. Get out. Well, who
34:41
Speaker 1: is this judge? Yes? So on Wednesday, on Wednesday this week,
34:47
Speaker 1: after the story had come out, there was a status
34:50
Speaker 1: hearing in another case and he ordered a prosecutor who
34:54
Speaker 1: wasn't even involved with this case we're talking about. He
35:00
Speaker 1: was sitting at the prosecutor table, was another local prosecutor,
35:04
Speaker 1: and the judge said you can leave my courtroom. And
35:08
Speaker 1: you kind of looked at him and he goes, you're excused,
35:10
Speaker 1: and he said, judge, And he said, my wife saw
35:14
Speaker 1: that you liked something on Facebook that attacked me. I
35:18
Speaker 1: can't be fair with you. Get out, hey, can I
35:20
Speaker 1: just thought jump in and ad that that the thing
35:22
Speaker 1: that was liked on Facebook was apparently the statement from
35:27
Speaker 1: my organization, Quincey Area Network against him. I stinking us.
35:30
Speaker 1: So was he going to throw every every prosecutor out
35:34
Speaker 1: because they're all from the same jurisdiction and that And
35:38
Speaker 1: that was kind of the surprising part is because the
35:42
Speaker 1: you know, prosecutor of course, are going to be very uh,
35:45
Speaker 1: you know, supportive of victim's rights. And so I don't
35:49
Speaker 1: think there was there's a prosecutor at the Adams County
35:52
Speaker 1: Courthouse who wouldn't have liked that if if they thought
35:54
Speaker 1: or if they had Facebook. How if I understand the judge,
35:57
Speaker 1: Judge Robert Adrian has been reassigned. What does that mean?
36:02
Speaker 1: It basically means he will not be hearing criminal cases.
36:07
Speaker 1: He typically had He had a criminal docut two days
36:11
Speaker 1: a week at the end. It's kind of courthouse and
36:14
Speaker 1: he has been reassigned to civil matters, small claims, probate, etc.
36:19
Speaker 1: Is he elected or appointed? Um? Is he was first
36:23
Speaker 1: elected in two thousan ten And in Illinois you are
36:26
Speaker 1: they put up a retention after every six years. You
36:30
Speaker 1: mean they get to re elect them every six years. Basically,
36:33
Speaker 1: it's like a yes or no question, would you allow?
36:35
Speaker 1: You know, would you like to retain this judge? So
36:39
Speaker 1: can another person run against him? Oh no, it's just
36:42
Speaker 1: a yes or it's just a yes or no question.
36:45
Speaker 1: That doesn't seem right. Okay, let's hear what everybody has
36:47
Speaker 1: to say, Uh, Dodger ron Elphinbine, in your experience with
36:52
Speaker 1: rape victims, what effect you see them on the front lines?
36:58
Speaker 1: What does this mean to them after all they go
37:01
Speaker 1: through to prosecute their case. Yeah, it's it's it's it's
37:04
Speaker 1: just heartbreaking and completely devastating obviously to them and to
37:09
Speaker 1: everybody around them. As you heard you know you read
37:11
Speaker 1: that or you heard the piece of the father was
37:13
Speaker 1: talking about their families devastated. I mean, it's it's horrible.
37:17
Speaker 1: And this woman had the courage to come forward and
37:19
Speaker 1: to say something, and then to have the judge rule
37:23
Speaker 1: one way and then, for whatever reason, just decide because
37:26
Speaker 1: he thinks he's a god somehow, that he can just
37:28
Speaker 1: overturn his own ruling is just mind boggling, and it's
37:32
Speaker 1: completely devastating to this poor lady and her family. And
37:37
Speaker 1: these people are just completely traumatized when they show up
37:40
Speaker 1: to see me in the emergency room. It's it's horrific.
37:42
Speaker 1: And you know another thing about that, And I guess
37:45
Speaker 1: I'll go to doctor Angela Arnold following on what doctor
37:48
Speaker 1: elphin Vine said. It's when you have become a violent
37:52
Speaker 1: crime victim. And I know from myself, you're not the
37:54
Speaker 1: same people that knew me before my fiance's murder say
37:58
Speaker 1: I had a completely different personality. I don't remember that that,
38:01
Speaker 1: but apparently it's true because everyone says it. You're never
38:05
Speaker 1: the same again, doctor Arnold, Oh, I know, Nancy. I
38:09
Speaker 1: also want to point out, and this is agreed. To
38:13
Speaker 1: point this out, Nancy, there are two studies that have
38:17
Speaker 1: found that blaming sexual harassment victims is linked to empathy
38:22
Speaker 1: for the male perpetrators. So that means men in particular
38:27
Speaker 1: are more likely to feel for the male harassers and
38:31
Speaker 1: blame the victim. So I imagine it's time to start
38:35
Speaker 1: going after some of these judges. Okay, Daryl Coleh And
38:38
Speaker 1: there you go. Now I understand why you're taking the
38:39
Speaker 1: defendant side. Oh, Nancy, that could not be anymore incorrect
38:44
Speaker 1: if your life depended on it, and fortunately it doesn't,
38:47
Speaker 1: because I love you in spite of disagree with you. Look,
38:50
Speaker 1: we have to take tell me something, and let's not generalize.
38:54
Speaker 1: Let's be specific. If this judge thought about it and
38:59
Speaker 1: saw the evidence, heard the evidence, and saw the body
39:01
Speaker 1: language and saw the facial expressions, then this judge had
39:04
Speaker 1: a reason for changing his verdict. And if he did,
39:09
Speaker 1: it's probably what he thought was right. I'm so glad
39:12
Speaker 1: you said that, because you're right, this judge did see
39:15
Speaker 1: facial expressions, demeanor, behavior, body language, her testimony, and he
39:21
Speaker 1: found the defendant guilty. Okay, Then upon reflection, I wonder
39:26
Speaker 1: what was involved in his reflection he reversed, as many
39:31
Speaker 1: people would say, his own self, Megan Dister House William, Yeah,
39:35
Speaker 1: I mean, look at the court transcript. He was very
39:37
Speaker 1: clear that the reason that he reversed the decision was
39:40
Speaker 1: not because he reconsidered some piece of evidence. It was
39:44
Speaker 1: clearly because he figured out that there was a minimum
39:46
Speaker 1: sentence a fiction for criminal sexual assault. Making you know,
39:50
Speaker 1: typically the state cannot appeal a decision like that, but
39:54
Speaker 1: changing a verdict because a sentencing could be a constant
40:00
Speaker 1: atituational error because the judge is to separate the evidence
40:05
Speaker 1: fact finding guilt or innocence from sentencing. Okay, Cheryl McCollum.
40:10
Speaker 1: Final thought, if Drew Clinton had used a knife instead
40:14
Speaker 1: of a penis, people would understand the gravity of this crime.
40:18
Speaker 1: The weapon he chose just happened to be a penis.
40:21
Speaker 1: Second thing, because of the bravery of Cammy, I believe
40:26
Speaker 1: more victims very likely may come forward for this perpetrator,
40:31
Speaker 1: Matt Hoff. Executive editor, Harold Wig Quincy, Illinois. Is there
40:38
Speaker 1: any talk of throwing the judge off the bench or
40:42
Speaker 1: somehow appealing this. I haven't heard any talk about trying
40:45
Speaker 1: to appeal his ruling. My understanding is there's been talk
40:50
Speaker 1: about that would invoke double jeopardy issues, and I've heard
40:56
Speaker 1: there's been up a petition online to asking him to resign. Yeah, yeah,
41:02
Speaker 1: there is a petition online. You're right, Matt Hoff, And
41:05
Speaker 1: I'm just throwing it out there, and this is something
41:07
Speaker 1: for all of you legal eagles to think about. Matt
41:10
Speaker 1: Hoff is absolutely correct. He can never be retried for
41:14
Speaker 1: this case. Under double jeopardy. You have one swing at
41:18
Speaker 1: the ball on felony trials, but the judge's reversal. I
41:25
Speaker 1: would consider an appeal on the fact based on what
41:29
Speaker 1: Megadister House is telling us. You don't reverse a fact
41:35
Speaker 1: finding decisions such as a guilty verdict based on the sentence.
41:40
Speaker 1: Those are two very distinct legal issues, and if the
41:43
Speaker 1: judge used the sentence as a reason for reversal, this
41:47
Speaker 1: could be grounds to reverse the judge's reversal. We wait
41:52
Speaker 1: as justice unfolds Nancy Gray's crime story, signing off Goodbye Friend,