Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / Ep. 230 ~ Shell Games

Transcript

Ep. 230 ~ Shell Games · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

0:16
Everything is going to hail down here inductive wow, Oh yeah, what's up
1:04
everybody? This is your boy, Rob Clark, Big bad vibe with you.
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This move an episode and thirty of The Lone Gumming Podcast and got an
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action packed fund field episode for you today. Thank you once again Roger and
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Shepherd on Fire for the theme music. I love it. I love it.
1:29
Make sure you're following along on Twitter at the Lone Gumming seven, on
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have exclusive contents you can't find anywhere else, folks, so make sure you
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are checking it out, following along and tiktoking at your little asses off.
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All right, so let's get right into it. I got two things for
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you today. The first thing I want to talk about is something that's kind
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of been around for a little while when it comes to assassination lore and conspiracy
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and all that good stuff. And it's been debated over the years and people
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go back and forth. What does it mean? What you know? So
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figured I would find some of the best work I can find on it,
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and that would be from Nold Twiment and his book Bloody Treason. Now what
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I'm talking about here is so after the assassination, as they are searching the
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Texas school Book Depository and trying to find any evidence whatsoever that shots were fired
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from the building, we have Deputy Luke Mooney finding a paper bag and two
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shells or three shells or two shells and a live round in the southwest corner
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of the school book Depository at an open window had some books. Now you
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know, the Warring Commission said that there was three shots, that's it,
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and they configured their shot sequence about which shot did what, and then they
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had to pull an audible because the fellow by the name of James Tag came
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forward and said, hey, yo, dumb asses, I got it hit
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in my face from a missed shot. They picked a piece of the curb
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up and nicked me in the face. Okay, So that's how we went
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from three shots it did exactly this and exactly that to three shots where one
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missed and one had to be the head shot of course, and the other
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one had to be a little magical to explain all the other wounds in two
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men, seven different wounds and two different men. Now, John Connolly always
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felt that he was hit by a different bullet than the same one that came
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through JFK. And he stated this as long as he lived, and he
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was not a proponent of the magic bullet theory. And as you might suspect,
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I mean, it's kind of hard to argue with the man. He
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was sitting in the car when all this has happened. He is one that
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actually got shot when all this happened. Now, a lot of people in
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Daily Plaza claim that the shot sequence went something like this, boom boom boom,
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okay, with the first one sounding somewhat like a firecracker, like a
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cheap pop. See if M Now, with the shot, those last two
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shots being so close together, it makes it almost impossible for them to be
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shot from the same rifle, at least the bolt action rifle or any rifle
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that is not semi automatic. And what I mean by semi automatic is you
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pull the trigger, you want to do anything, and you pull the trigger
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again with the bolt action, excite it up. You pull the trigger.
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You have to work the bolt up, back and forward again and down in
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order to eject the spent shellcasing and insert another live round into the chamber.
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This takes time to do. It can't be done instantaneously. That can be
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done quickly, yeah, but not so quickly that you're going to get a
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bang bang. That's just too quick. Okay, That to me is indication
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of more than one shooter, more than one rifle, more than one shot.
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And you know, some of these daily Plaza witnesses, and I understand
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that ear and eyewitnesses can't be one hundred percent reliable, especially given the acoustics
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of daily plaza, given the reliability of eye witnesses, and this, that
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and the other, but there were quite a few ear witnesses who said that
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they heard four shots. The acoustical evidence from the HSCA and the Dickta belt
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recording indicated four shots, one from the region of the grassy door as a
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matter of fact. So there's that. And then you know, when you're
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a fledgling, when you're a little youngling researcher into all this stuff, and
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you're and you're looking through evidence documents, you're looking through evidence of photos of
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the evidence in the case, and you see certain things and you're like,
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that's weird, doesn't really match what they said. And one of those things
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that jumped out to me many years ago and a lot of other people as
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well, is, you know, a picture of the evidence elected on a
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table, you know, with the rifle on the blanket and a couple of
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other things, and only two spent shells. Now, we've always been told
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that there were three spent tills found under the window to account for the three
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shots from the rifle, right, and one live round was found in the
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chamber, And there is a little fuck are you going on with these shells?
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There is some indication that at some point Fritz picked up the shells,
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put him in his pocket, and maybe put them back down on the floor
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at some point, maybe not all of them, But there's many ways that
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that loan nutters can account for this discrepancy in a myriad of different ways.
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But if there were only two spent shells found on the sixth floor and one
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live round on the floor, then they hold three shot scenario by Lee Harvey
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Oswald goes right out the window, folks, And what are we left with?
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At least a lot of most if not well, you know, most
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those dealer Plaza witnesses will acquiesce to hearing three shots like I said. Sometimes
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people say they heard four, but you rarely ever run into a witness I
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only heard one shot, or I only heard two shots, or I heard
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eighteen shots. It's either three or four ninety nine percent of the time.
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So we have ourselves a problem. If there's only two shells, who spent
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shells found on the sixth floor under the window. So from No. Twimin's
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book, Bloody Treason, one need to shell problem, We're gonna follow along
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and see what we can make out here. The foregoing discussions have been based
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on statements and the Warren Commission report that three empty six and a half millimeter
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cartridge shells were found on the sixth floor of the school book depository and one
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live round was found in the chamber like I said, Thus, no more
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than three shots would have been fired from Oswald's rifle. This was accepted by
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the Commission as a fundamental premise, but a new document found by Anna Marie
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in the National Archive strows severe doubt on the three empty cartridge of cremise.
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This document, Exhibit ten to twelve A, is in the form of a
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copy of an evidence envelope which contained photographs, with the envelope signed by FBI
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agent J. Doyle Williams, the description of which states, thus lee two
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negatives and four prints of each of the two six and a half bullet halls,
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and one live round of six and a half ammunition from the rifle found
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on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository on eleven, twenty two
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sixty three. So there's our first indication of two six and a half millimeter
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bullet holes and one live round from Jay Doyle Williams, FBI Special Agent.
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Now, the photographs in the envelope consisted of eight prints, all showing two
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empty cartridges and one round of live ammunition. When I received this, it
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appeared to be the most important evidence. Indeed, how ironic I thought that,
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after all these years of arguing and controversy over the magic bullet and the
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number of shots, to discover such conclusive evidence that there were only two empty
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cartridges. The entire case of the government was built on a house of cards.
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This FBI document and photograph were never in so far as I've been able
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to determine, shown to the Warner Commission. They are another example of movers.
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FBI concealing evidence. But this evidence did not come as a complete surprise.
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Gary Shaw and his book Cover Up, first published in nineteen seventy six,
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revealed a document showing that only two spent six and a half millimeter rounds
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had been recorded in the original evidence sheet. Yet Warren Commission damn hold on
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Warren Commission Joseph Ball could have gotten himself involved in such a transparent scheme.
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After completing the above, writing yet another document with service on June twenty seven,
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nineteen ninety four, that added credence to the conclusion of only two empty
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shows. This was in the book Searching the Shadows by Stephen Earhart. I
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obtained a copy of the document and it shows the Dallas Police found a six
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and a half millimeter rifle two spent halls on the sixth floor between one thirty
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and two fifteen pm. Note two spent halls, not three as was used
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by the Warrant Commission to make its case for a lone gunman. I thought,
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surely no more evidence could ever be necessary to put away forever the Warrn
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Commission single bullet fabrication. Then a final nail on the coffin comes to light.
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Now this evidence envelope states Yeah, two negative floor prints of each of
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two six and a half inch or millimeter bullet holes in one live round.
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Okay, final pieces of the puzzle comes together. The fact that Kennerly,
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Kennerly, Kennerly, Kennedy, and Connolly were hit by separate bullets, and
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thus, by the Warrant Commission's own definition, there was a conspiracy was even
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confirmed by j Edgar Hoover himself. In a taped telephone conversation with Lyndon Johnson
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on November twenty ninth, nineteen sixty three, and recently released by the National
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Archives. Hoover told Johnson that there were three shots that the first shot hit
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Kennedy, the second shot hit Tunnally, and the third shot hit Kennedy.
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What follows is a verbatim transcript of their conversation. Johnson, how how many
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shots were fired? Hoover three? Johnson, Any of them fired at me?
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Hoover, No, All three at the president, and we have them.
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Two of the shots fired at the President which splintered, but they had
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characteristics on them so that our ballistics expert were able to prove that they were
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fired by this gun. Here the third shot which hit the president. He
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was hit by the first and the third to the second shot hit the governor.
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The third shot is a complete bullet, and that rolled out of the
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President's head. I guess rolled. It tore a large part of the President's
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head off. And in trying to massage it's hard at the hospital. On
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the way to the hospital, they apparently knocked that and are They apparently loosened
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that, and it fell on a stretcher and we recovered that, and we
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have that, and we have the gun here also. So this is indisputable
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proof that on November the twenty ninth, nineteen sixty three, Jaeger Hoover and
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Lyndon Johnson knew that Tunnelle and Kennedy were hit by separate bullets. And then
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we have here a crime scene search section from the Identification Bureau of eleven twenty
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seven sixty three Officer Lieutenant day Studebaker and Captain Fritz from the CSS of the
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Identification Bureau of the following from the sixth floor Texas School Book Depository one and
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six and a half millimeter live action I'm sorry, it says lever action rifle
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number C two seven sixty six and then two spent holes from sixth floor windows.
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Elman Houston Nature Offense murder signature of person receiving the specimen. Charles T.
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Brown of the FBI, Vincent Drene was also present, actually took possession
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of all evidence, Lieutenant Day. So it's not just the here FBI was
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making shit up and covering things up. I mean this is coming from Dallas
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police documents as well. And then of course we have photos and they're marked
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A, B and C and A it sears to be a full bullet as
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in a complete live round, not shot. B and C would be just
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spent tills in this photograph. And you can google, you know, you
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can google that. Oh see, let me go on here. There's a
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darkened area around it. And of course they were looking at the pictures of
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the cell of shells. Um it's something if it has the you know,
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commission exhibit see the side ten or five nineteen. Can't really read it,
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but it says there's a darkened area around it, and the cartridge appears to
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be bent. It looks like a crude hand forgery job. Somehow both the
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authentic photo and the forged photo slipped to the commission. The plotters were human
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they were caught in their own web. One more important role our note in
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Joseph Ball's questioning of the Deputy Sheriff Mooney, he focused on Exhibit ten to
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fourteen. Why did he choose ten fourteen instead of ten fifteen, most of
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which are in the commission report. The answer could be the Joseph Ball knew
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that Exhibit ten fourteen was authentic and he could not understand Exhibit ten fifteen,
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so he avoided attracting attention to it. This evidence is powerful and persuasive.
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It shows a pragmatic but botched the attempt by the FBI, in concert with
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the Dallas Police to fabricate evidence to create the illusion that Oswald acted a loan
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after the original plan had gone badly wrong. The Warrant Commission was snared in
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a web of deception. The FBI and the Commission's efforts were Keystone Cops fiasco.
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Yet it worked. Why Because the people in charge the investigation, LBJ
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and Hoover made it work. They had the power to taylor and consign the
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investigation to suit their needs. If the foregoing doesn't convince you, then there
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is much more evidence to prove that there was more than one gunment. This
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subject will appear again and again as we progress. It is basic to understand
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the assassination and cover up are two separate things. The reason is evident.
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Certain officials and US government considered it absolutely indispensable that evidence of more than one
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gun and be suppressed, distorted, or destroyed, Otherwise they would not have
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been able to contain the investigation. If the foregoing evidence had not been suppressed
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or distorted, it seems inescapable that outrage would have arisen in the American public
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and a complete investigation would have been demanded. The citizens of this country would
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not have been satisfied until a second gunman was found. And as we will
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discuss coming up, the government officials were compelled to resort to even more extreme
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measures cover up the crime, something that we're safis are and so foulish as
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to defy imaginations. And then we'll take a look at the testimony of Luke
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Mooney. This will be the second session, so he goes through here.
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Luke Mooney was a deputy sheriff in Dallas County, Texas and had been so
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on the four since nineteen fifty eight UM. They go through a lot of
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his background and YadA YadA YadA states where he was. He was standing on
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Main Street when the President went by. UM heard the shots. He came
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down across the lawn across the Elm Street, he said. I assumed it
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was the approximately the location the President was hit, which the motor kate was
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gone. There wasn't anything there, with a bunch of people, a lot
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of them lying on the ground taking on various things. I was running at
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full speed, he said. He ran across and all him up the embankment,
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which is a high terrace there across there's a kind of concrete building there,
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more or less a little park. He jumped over the fence and went
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into the railroad yards, and of course there were other officers over there.
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Who they were I don't recall, but Ralph Walters and I were running together.
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Then we jumped into the railroad yards and began to look around there,
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and of course we didn't see anything there. Of course, the other officers
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had checked the into the car there and didn't find anything. I don't believe
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what a negro porter. Of course, there were quite a few spectators milling
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around behind us. We were trying to clear the area out and go out
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and get all the civilians out. It wasn't officers. The boy asked him,
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well, why'd you go over to the railroad yard. He said,
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well that from the echo of the shots, we thought they came from that
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direction, that would be north and west from where you're standing. Yes,
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sir, there wasn't too many seconds. Of course, I never did look
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at my wash to see how many seconds it took us to run so many
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hundred yards there and into the railway yard. We were there only a few
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seconds until we had orders to cover the Texas Depository building. How did you
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get those orders? Money says, they were referred to us by the sheriff,
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mister Bill Decker. Where was he when he gave you those orders?
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Mooney said, well, they were they were actually relaid on to us.
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I assume mister Decker was up near the intersection of Elm and Houston. Did
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you hear it over a loud speaker, No, sir, it came by
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a word from another officer, And you were with Walters at that time,
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right, and where officers Walters went at that time, I don't know.
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We split up and I didn't see any more of him until later on,
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which I will refer to later. Then we're there, you go, he
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said. Mister Webster and mister Vickery were there with me at the time that
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we received these orders from another deputy plain clothes officers. Mister Vicker and mister
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mister Vickery and mister Webster, yes, work in the same department. We
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run over to the building then, which we were only one hundred or two
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hundred feet back, but it didn't take us but a few seconds to get
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there. When we hit the rear part, these big iron gates, they
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have cyclone fencing on them. This used to be an old grocery store warehouse
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Saxon company, I believe. And I says, let's get these doors closed
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to block off this rear entrance. Where the doors opened, Mooney says,
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they were wide open, big gates. So I grabbed one and we swung
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them too. And there was a citizen there, and I put him on
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orders to keep them shut because I don't recall whether there was a lock on
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them or not. I didn't want to lock them because you never know what
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might happen. So he stood guard, I assume, until the uniformed officer
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took over. We shut the back door. There was a back door on
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the little dock, and then we went through the docks through the rear instance
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Vickery and Webster says, we will take the staircase there in the corner,
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and I said, I will go up the freight elevator. I noticed there
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was a big elevator there, so I jumped on it, and about that
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time two women come running and said, we want to go to the second
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floor. I said, I didn't get on. We're going. Which elevator
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did you get on? Mooney said it was the nearest one to the staircase
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on the northwest corner of the building. There are two elevators there, many
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said, I found that out later. I didn't know that at the time,
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and in close to the west one. He says. It was a
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push button affair, the best I can remember. I got ahold of the
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controls and it worked. We started up and got to the second I was
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going to let them off and go on up, and when we got there,
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the power undoubtedly cut off because we had no more power on the elevator.
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I looked around their office there just a short second or two, and
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then I went up the staircase myself and I met some other officers coming down
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plane clothes, and I believe they were deputy sheriffs. They were coming down
27:30
the staircase. But I kept going up. And how come I get off
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on the sixth floor, I don't know yet, But anyway, I stopped
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on six and didn't even know what floor I was on. You were alone,
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yeah, I was alone at that time. Was there any reason for
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you to go to the sixth floor? When he says, no, sir,
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that's what I say. I don't know why I just stopped on that
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particular floor. I thought I was pretty close to the top. Were there
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any other officers on the floor, Mooney said, I didn't see any at
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that time. I assume there had been other officers up there, but I
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didn't see them. I began criss crossing it round and round through boxes,
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looking at open windows. Some of them were open over on the south side,
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and I believe they had started laying as a flooring up there. I
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was checking the fire escapes and Chris crossing back and forth, and then I
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decided I saw there was another floor, and I said I would go up.
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So I went up to the seventh floor. I approached Webster and Victory.
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They were up there in this little old stairway there that leads up into
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the attic. So we climbed up in there and looked around right quick.
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We didn't climb all the way into the attic, almost into it. We
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said, this is too dark. We gotta have flood lights because we can't
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see. And so somebody made a statement that they believe flood lights were on
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the way, and I later found out that probably officers booming walters had gone
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after lights. I heard that. So we looked down up there for a
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short time and then I says, I'm going back down to the sixth At
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that time, a news reporter I didn't know who he was was coming up
29:15
with the camera. Of course, he wasn't taking any pictures. He was
29:18
just looking too, I assume. So I went back down ahead of Victory
29:22
and Webster, and they came in behind me. Down to the sixth floor,
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I went straight across to the southeast corner of the building, and I
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saw all these high boxes. Of course, they were stacked all the way
29:34
around over there, and I squeezed between two of them. And the minute
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I squeezed between these two stacks and boxes, I had to turn myself sideways
29:42
to get into there, and that's when I saw the expended shells and the
29:48
boxes that were stacked up looked to be arrest for the weapon. And also
29:52
there was a slight crease in the top box. Whether the recoil made decrease
29:59
or it was placed there before the shots were fired, I don't know,
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but anyway, there was a very slight crease in the box where the rifle
30:07
could have leaned at the same angle that the shots were fired from. So
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at that time I didn't lay my hands on anything because I wanted to save
30:17
every evidence we could for fingerprints. So I leaned out the window, the
30:22
same window from which the shots were fired, and I looked down and I
30:26
saw Sheriff Bill Becker and the Chaptain Will Fritz standing right on the ground well,
30:32
so I hollered or signaled I hollered. I think I whistled a time
30:37
or two before I got anybody to see me. And yet they was all
30:38
looking that way too, except the sheriff, it wasn't looking up. And
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I told him to get the crime lab officers on route that I had the
30:49
location spotted. So I stood guard to see that no one disturbed anything until
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Captain will Fritz approached with his group of officers city off at that time.
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Of course, when I hollered Vickery and Webster, they came across, and
31:04
later on several other deputies. I believe McCurley. I believe he came over
31:11
where he came from. It was all on route up there. I assume,
31:15
Ball says, I'll show you three pictures, officer, for your convenience.
31:19
I will give you the pictures. I have a picture here which has
31:22
been marked as Commission Exhibit five or eight. Does that look anything like the
31:30
southeast corner of the building that you saw that afternoon? Yes, sir.
31:37
You say you squeeze behind some boxes. Can you point out which boxes you
31:41
squeeze through? If I remember correctly, I went in there from this angle
31:47
right here, right through there, there could be a space. There's a
31:51
space. I squeezed in between here, and that is when I got into
31:53
the opening. Because the minute I squeezed through there there like the should all
32:00
right, let's make them arek here is this is space? I believe that
32:05
it's going to be the space. Yes, sir, Mooney says, yes,
32:08
sir, there's another picture I have seen later that shows an opening in
32:12
through here, but I didn't see that opening at the time. Now I
32:17
will show you five or nine. Is that the way the boxes looked?
32:23
Mooney says, well, that is the three boxes, but none of them
32:25
was tilted off, just a little laying down the edge. I believe in
32:30
my knowledge. Now does that look like Money says, well, that is
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the three boxes that were there, Yes, sir, Are they arranged as
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they were when you saw them? Mooney said, I'm not positive, as
32:43
I remember right, there was one box tilted off. Ball says, what
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were the boxes? Did they have a label on them? Two of the
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boxes these do? I didn't notice the label at the time. Ball said,
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well, that is a picture of the window. Mooney says, yes.
33:00
Do I understand that. You say it appeared to you that the top
33:04
box was tilted. Mooney said, well, the end of it was laying
33:07
this way. You say there was a crease in the box. Where was
33:10
that crease? The crease was right in this area of this box. You
33:15
mean over on the edge, Yes, sir, on this far edge here
33:20
where I'm laying my finger. Did it go into the box very slightly?
33:24
Mooney says, a very slight crease. Now, was there anything you saw
33:35
over in the corner. No, sir, I didn't see anything over in
33:39
the corner. I did see this one partially eaten piece of fried chicken laying
33:46
over to the right a bit. It looked like he was facing and the
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Ball interrupts him and says, we'll tell us where you found it. Won
33:55
He said it would be laying over on the top of these other boxes here
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is kind of blurred. Boss says, we will get to that in a
34:05
moment. And now I'll show you Commission Exhibit five ten, which is the
34:12
one the picture we were talking about earlier, folks. Is that the empty
34:16
shells you found? Mooney said, yes, sir. Boss says, are
34:22
they shown here? Yes, sir. Now, will you take this and
34:25
encircle the shells all right, put a fairly good sized circle around each shell.
34:31
That is the way they were when you saw them, Is that right,
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Money says, yes, sir. I assume that this possibly could have
34:38
been the first shot. Bass said, you cannot speculate about that. Mooney
34:45
says no. Boss says those were empty shells, yes, sir, And
34:51
they were turned over to Captain Fritz. Yes, sir, he was the
34:54
first officer that picked them up. As far as I know, because I
34:58
stood there and watched him go over and pick them up, look at them.
35:00
As far as I could tell, I couldn't even tell what caliber they
35:04
were because I didn't get down that close to them. They were brass cartridges,
35:08
brass shells. Boss says, the disposition of the cartridges its shown on
35:14
five ten. As you saw them, Mooney said, yes, sir,
35:17
that is just about the way they were laying. To the best of my
35:20
knowledge, I do know there was one further away and those other two were
35:24
relatively close together in this particular area. With these cartridges, this one and
35:30
this one looks like they were further apart than they actually was. Which one
35:35
man, He said, this one and this one, Now two cartridges were
35:39
close together as a right, the one cartridge here by the wall facing his
35:44
right, and this one and this one they were further away from this one.
35:49
Boss says, well, Mooney said, but as to being positive of
35:52
the exact distance, the Boss says, you think the cartridges are in the
35:58
same position as when you saw them in this picture? Won, He says,
36:01
as far as my knowledge, they are pretty close to rate. So
36:07
Ball's trying to pin him down, and Moon he's like, looks close to
36:13
rate, but not the way I remember them. Now, Ball says,
36:23
I didn't quite understand. Did you say it was your memory that A and
36:27
B we're not that close together. Mooney says, just from my memory,
36:31
it seems that this cartridge oft to have been over this way a little further.
36:37
You mean the B cartridge should be closer to sea, and he says,
36:40
yes, they're closer to the sea. Now I have another picture here
36:45
which I would like to have marked us five eleven. Ball says, does
36:52
this appear to be? First of all? Does that appear? He says,
37:00
there are two cartridges? Where's the third one? Mister Ball says,
37:06
the third one is not in this picture. This is taken from another angle.
37:12
Man, He says, well, this looks more like it than this
37:15
angle here. You can see it as a different angle. Ball says,
37:19
Many said, well, yeah, that's right. Now. On the same
37:22
picture five eleven, you see a box in the window. Does that seem
37:24
to be about the right angle? So they get away from the shelves for
37:30
a second. Go back to this box. Now, what if you look
37:35
up commissioning exhib at five to ten. You will see, folks, that
37:43
shell SEE is ejected quite a distance away from the rifle where the alleged shots
37:50
were being fired from, and shell B is almost directly right under the window.
38:00
It doesn't appear that it was ejected very far. And Mooney seems to
38:07
remember that when he saw them that the two ejected shells were much closer together
38:15
than they were in this picture. So they keep discussing other angles of this
38:30
picture, and then something a little more interesting. They start talking about the
38:42
chicken bone. Balls says, does that show any place where you saw the
38:47
chicken bone? Money said, well, if I recall correctly, the chicken
38:51
bone could have been lying on this box, or it might have been lying
38:54
on this box right here, says make two exces. You think there was
39:00
a chicken bone on the top of either one of these two? Mooney said,
39:06
there was one of them partially eaten, and there was a little small
39:08
paper poke. And Boss says, well, by poke, you mean a
39:13
paper sack, and Mooney says, yes. Boss said where was that?
39:19
Mooney says, saw the chicken bone was lying here, the poke was laying
39:22
about a foot away from it on the same carton. Mooney said, yes,
39:27
sir, in close relation to each other. But as to what was
39:30
in the sack, it was knighted together, and I didn't open it.
39:34
I didn't put my hands on it to open it. I only saw one
39:37
piece of chicken. And then Senator Cooper interjects into this questioning for the first
39:45
time, and he says, well, tell me, tell me, boy,
39:51
how far was the chicken the piece of chicken U saw in the paper
39:53
bag from the boxes near the window, and particularly the box that had to
39:58
crease on it. Mooney says, I would say they might have been five
40:04
feet away. Five feet, folks, five feet Bonnie Ray Williams. Let's
40:22
now see, at the time all this ship was going on, they thought
40:28
that Oswald had been sitting up there in this corner, waiting, waiting,
40:37
eating a chicken sandwich, drinking a doctor pepper, all that good stuff.
40:43
Turns out the whole chicken bone, doctor pepper thing was Bonnie Ray Williams five
40:52
feet away from the sniper's nest. Now telling me tell me either. Bonnie
41:04
Ray Williams was blind as a fucking bat and never saw anybody Oswald or anybody
41:17
five feet away from him as he sat there and ate his chicken sandwich,
41:25
drank his doctor pepper, and smoked a cigarette. You know that activity would
41:34
probably take about ten or fifteen minutes, at least ten, five to ten.
41:45
You know, if you've written you know, you just you're eating your
41:46
chicken, You're drinking your soda pipe, smoke a couple of cigarettes, and
41:53
you're sitting there. Nobody else is on the floor, no other noise.
41:59
So there Oswald is sitting there behind a box, not breathing, not moving,
42:06
and this old rickety ass building, Flower's creek. I'm shore Bonnie Ray
42:14
Williams doesn't hear anything or see anything or anybody. That means to me that
42:23
there wasn't nobody there to be seen, or Bonnie Ray Williams is lying about
42:35
sitting up there alone, and he was actually up there with Oswald. Oswald
42:42
might have told him to get lost as the time came closer to the presidential
42:47
motorcade, and then he went down on the fifth floor with his buddies to
42:51
watch the motorcade. And he didn't want to associate himself whatsoever with that period
43:00
of time because as a black man in the South in nineteen sixty three and
43:07
the president's getting killed, you don't want any part being five feet away from
43:14
alleged assassin. Folks. That was a bold move because if they could have
43:22
proved that Bonnie Ray would have been up there with Oswald, which they could
43:29
have made a pretty decent case of doing being the only people covering for Bonnie
43:35
Ray Williams with the other two African American gentleman on his fifth floor, and
43:39
what time he was there and what he told them, because there's always been
43:49
something slightly off about this whole situation about you know, the fifth floor guys
43:57
and what they what they said, and their their movements and and Doherty and
44:05
you know what they said in DC and all this stuff. So I'm just
44:12
saying the one way or the other, there is some fuckery afoot. And
44:22
the rest of this interview with Luke Meaney, Luke Meany, Luke Mooney is
44:28
the starting with finding the rifle and and they then they go back to the
44:34
position of the boxes and the boxes and the boxes and totally gloss over the
44:38
shoal shell game again. And then we have uh four H three A,
44:52
which is an evidence sheet from the Dallas Police Department and evidence inventory sheet,
45:00
and they say one Italian made six and a half. No one need a
45:07
rifle. Zero number two seven sixty six blue steel woodstock brown leather sling with
45:16
a four by eighteen coded Ordnance Optics, Hollywood, California, zero ten power
45:24
Japan telescopic site sound by Deputy Sheriff Whitzman on the sixth floor, five feet
45:37
from the west wall and eight feet from the stairway. One green brown blanket
45:45
found by day who is it? Found by somebody? Rose stove All and
45:55
a damn chick at twenty five fifteen West Fifth, Irving, Texas. Taken
46:01
from garage. One thirty eight slug taken from the body of JD. Tippett
46:10
had Methodist Hospital by doctor Paul mulling Off at one thirty pm. He gave
46:15
them to R. A. Davenport. One homemade paper top something gun case
46:34
found by Johnson and Montgomery at four eleven Elm and brought to crime Lab.
46:42
One thirty eight pistol two inch barrel. McDonald took it from Oswald to two
46:49
thirty one West Jefferson and gave it to Sergeant Jerry Hill, who gave it
46:53
to Detective Baker Bollard. Fragments taken from body of Governor Connolly Missus Audrey Bell
47:04
operating room nurse to Bob Nolan, DPS to Captain Fritz, to the crime
47:08
lab, to the FBI. One live round six and a half millimeter two
47:16
six and a half millimeters spent rounds recovered by Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney at four
47:24
eleven Elm, sixth floor, southeast window. So there you have it,
47:35
folks. There you have it on multiple official documents from the DPD from the
47:49
FBI. In pictures two shows one live round, two girls, one cup.
48:00
Yeah, no, I'm joking. Two live rounds are on one live
48:05
round two spence shelves. So when did this change? Of course, this
48:19
changed. I mean at the time they were just collecting evidence, whatever evidence
48:23
was there. They said what they saw. The evidence didn't change until the
48:31
narrative had to change that this one lone gumming fired three shots. It's kind
48:43
of hard to say that he fired three shots. If you only find two
48:46
spin shelves, what's your argument going to be, Well, maybe he picked
48:51
one up and took it with him. Maybe it flew out the window and
48:55
you didn't find it below. I don't know, but at some point,
49:02
at some point it turned from two spin shelves and one live round on the
49:12
floor, the three spence shelves and one live round in the chamber. It
49:21
doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this stuff out. And that's not all
49:24
with the shelves, you know, there's there's there's a bunch of stuff going
49:29
on with these shells, um one of them. They were they were trying
49:32
to figure out if they were reloads. Um, they were trying to figure
49:39
out where they came from, who was selling this ammunition? Where could Oswalf
49:45
got these bullets? Um? You know? And I believe, I believe
49:53
that at least one of these empty holes were getting we're getting so badly that
50:01
it probably couldn't have been fired. Who knows, But this leads us down
50:12
the road of you know, Nile Rider and the Urban Sports shop and all
50:19
this jazz. The guy that probably put the scope on where Oswald probably got
50:23
his ammunition, if it was his, who knows? Do you know that
50:35
there's a story out there. So here he goes some interesting kind of stuff
50:43
just to wrap everything up. Gerald Patrick Hemmings has been a darling of several
50:54
different research and over the years, including Great Burnham, Old Twiman, A
51:02
J. Weberman, and he's told a lot of different stories to a lot
51:12
of different people. But as with anyone knows, there's always a maybe a
51:22
kernel of corn truth and a big pile of dog shit. And with Gerald
51:29
heming is no difference. Um. Now I want to read you a little
51:38
interaction between Marlan Slack and Wesley Leebler the Warrant Commission, and we've been talking
51:49
about We asked a couple of shows about it. This Johnson thirty out six
51:53
squarterized rifle. Right to check this out, Leibler says. In other words,
52:10
this rifle that Oswald had was a sportarized rifle. It had been rebuilt.
52:17
Slacks says, just as advertised. I have seen besides the Oswald,
52:23
I have friends that have those rifles. I wouldn't shoot a toad frog with
52:28
one of them, because I know they're just jumped right. So then Leeblay
52:34
asked them, I have some things. Was there anybody else with Oswald?
52:40
Slacks says that Sunday there Shore was. The Paul boy had the biggest feet
52:46
of any kid I ever saw. And about the time he would go to
52:51
shoot, he would kick with his feet. And I said, if my
52:53
feet were that damn big, I would bump somebody to he was the boy
52:59
that drove him to the rifle range on November seventeenth, nineteen sixty three.
53:06
They found the boy. He had no connection with him except that he had
53:09
driven him there. And Leebo says, how do you know they found him?
53:15
Slack says, I read it in the paper. I don't know what
53:17
his name was. I don't know where they found him, but they found
53:21
him, and he had no connection with him, no more than I had.
53:24
He just probably begged to ride, and they took him to the rifle
53:28
range and they had three guns. Lucille remembers the boy handing the guns over
53:34
the fence and they were throwing the guns in the back of an old model
53:37
car and taking off like they did so. And like I said before,
53:47
Demming has told a lot of things to a lot of researchers, including A.
53:53
J. Weberman. Now something in it resting that he did tell Weberman
54:02
about the shells. Okay, I'm trying to scroll back here and find it
54:12
where it starts. Bear with me, please, We're almost there, I
54:19
promise so. AJ. Weberman put forth this theory of Hemming and Oswald as
54:31
a sports Drone rifle range in November of sixty three. It says Oswald was
54:37
driven to the Sports drone rifle range several occasions by Hemming, including Sunday November
54:45
seventeenth, nineteen sixty three. As part of the set up a credible assassin.
54:50
He had to have practiced and him he knew that Oswald's presence that the
54:53
rifle range would be detected and reported on after the assassination by the Good Old
55:00
Boys an adjoining booths. Hemming also had to obtain spent fills from Oswald's man
55:08
liquor carcano the plant in the Texas school Book Depositorial November twenty second, nineteen
55:15
sixty three. Hemming fired Oswald's man liqueur carcano, and Oswald fired Hemming's quote
55:22
sport aized raful. Hemming put the spence shells from Oswald's rifle in his pocket,
55:30
and Oswald put the spence shells from Hemming's weapon in his pocket. Hemming
55:36
said he liked Oswald's gun and offered him to bubble what it was worth.
55:39
We told him to bring it to the school Book Depositorial, November twenty second.
55:45
By that time Hemming would have the money to purchase the weapon from Oswald
55:49
because everyone in Interpenn, including Oswald, was going to come into some money
55:55
after the assassination. Severalmen who were at the range that day told the FBI
56:00
that they had seen Oswald there. However, after the assassination, the FBI
56:05
determined to portray Oswald as a lone assassin. It would not be accused of
56:12
having overlooked. They brought a conspiracy, suppressed all indications that Oswald had been
56:17
or that Oswald had a questionable associate, such as the quote tall man who
56:24
accompanied him to the sports drome Revel range. So was Jerry Patrick Hemming the
56:31
tall man because it wasn't a tall man in real life six foot seven,
56:37
probably had some big ass feet, no doubt, and you know this tall
56:45
person would definitely have stood down in people's minds and not be a forgotten character.
56:54
Now, the one thing that Hemming has admitted too in various places is
57:05
offering to buy the man laker Ertano from Lee Oswald, telling them telling him
57:10
to bring it to work that day and that Hemming would be buy to buy
57:15
it from him. Now, whether or not this is true, I have
57:19
no idea. I'm just saying and he made the comment as well when he
57:29
was working on Oliver Stone's movie JFK. If you will look very closely at
57:38
the shooters in the sixth Floor Depository, you'll see Gerald Patrick Hemming real life
57:49
Jared Patrick Hemming portraying one of the shooters on the sixth floor. And he
57:57
told a J. Webberman that he aspired some shells from Oswald's rifle and planted
58:01
them in the book depository to frame Oswald as the petsy. But take that
58:13
for what you will, folks. You know who the hell knows when it
58:16
comes to wimming, when it comes to Hemming, take everything with a grainish
58:22
salt. But could it be? But this is why all this nonsense and
58:32
fuckery and things that don't make sense about the shells, about Bonnie Ray Williams,
58:37
about how the shells got on the sixth floor. Could this be the
58:44
reason the story fears? For yourself, folks, once again on Twitter at
58:52
the loon gum and seven, on TikTok at the loon Gumming seven and you
58:58
two the loon Gumming Podcasts channel. Check it out, let you like,
59:04
subscribe and share. I appreciate you all. I have a great day.
59:10
And don't forget Bob loves you beastside my god, damn, I that have
59:29
y'all side, and no one have to done got run down that I have
59:52
to dine all that I can say that you are going from my kids and
1:00:01
all my friend and brother side, and my grandb that's gone on finding.
1:00:10
But I damn, that's a sharp side. Well, I will alone with
1:00:20
my view never done away. I won't be for around file Bill time when
1:00:52
I was alone with my view never so weak. I won't be for around
1:00:59
by Bill a dime in my grandma here frowning from the kiss of all the
1:01:08
friend from the side in my grandma that's also faring. But the damage I
1:01:19
shall show ever ark in my in the g