Latest / Sports Card Clubhouse / Become A Doctor Or Card Dealer? He Chose Cards! (So You Wanna Be A Dealer w/CardsMax)

Transcript

Become A Doctor Or Card Dealer? He Chose Cards! (So You Wanna Be A Dealer w/CardsMax) · Sports Card Clubhouse

0:01
Hey everybody, it's Mike, Junk Wax Hero.
0:03
I'm joined by Max, also known as Cards Max on Twitter and
0:08
Instagram. Max, how are you?
0:09
I'm good. I just came back from a quick
0:12
trip to Nashville for their local for I guess their national
0:16
card show. I know they spelled with an Nash
0:19
national. Their national card show was a
0:21
fun weekend, and now I'm back in Florida and I'm ready to talk to
0:24
you. Yeah, this is exciting.
0:26
So the National, I have never been to the Nash National.
0:30
Tell me a little bit about it. I know it's a big deal.
0:33
So I've done it. This is not my second time doing
0:36
it. I did it this past February.
0:39
So I mean time flies I guess. That's like 8 months ago.
0:43
From my understanding, people love it.
0:45
It gets a lot of local turn out. I didn't love it that much.
0:50
The room is progressively growing with Pokémon a lot.
0:53
There's a lot of tables, which is a blessing and a curse.
0:57
George, my dog, I don't know if you can hear him too well, but
0:59
he's trying to enjoy the podcast.
1:00
Yeah, he'll calm down in a little bit.
1:02
My apologies about that. But it was a an effective
1:06
weekend of buying and selling sometime mostly familiar faces
1:09
that I've already known, which isn't ideally what I want when a
1:12
travel show, but it was an overall fun weekend.
1:15
Nice, I should probably introduce the podcast here since
1:18
I didn't at the very beginning. This is the new podcast called
1:22
So You Want to Be a Dealer, and I'm interviewing a dealer every
1:25
other week. The first one was with Chris
1:26
Sewell, Baseball card collector investor dealer, and this one is
1:29
with Max. And Max, tell me a little bit
1:32
about yourself as a dealer. So I guessed I'll keep the give
1:39
the Cliff notes on myself from a card perspective a little bit,
1:41
which is I think integral to getting into how I became a
1:45
dealer, bought cards as a or had cards bought for me as a kid.
1:49
5-6 years old was cool. Everyone has that phase, blah
1:53
blah blah. I had this phase as a teenager
1:55
where I'm really getting in the cards and which is abnormal for
2:00
a teenager in the 20 tens. I consumed blowout forms,
2:05
probably 12 hours worth of doomscrowling a day, seeing
2:09
those back pages and others that still interact a little bit,
2:13
posting their thoughts and everything.
2:14
But I didn't have a debit card, I didn't have money.
2:17
So it was just non-stop constant information.
2:20
And then I got out of that when I was like 1516 because I wasn't
2:23
really buying much aside from stuff at a drug store because it
2:26
got me more connected to the sport of baseball without
2:29
needing to purchase memorabilia. That's partly why cards are so
2:32
cool. And then I got out of that for a
2:34
little because cards were not cool or not mainstream like they
2:36
are now back then. And then when I was 2021 years
2:39
old, I had some college kid money and I'm like, OK, I can
2:44
buy some Yankees autographs for my basement.
2:46
Went down the rabbit hole with that.
2:48
And I never looked back since then.
2:50
And from that point, I think during COVID, I was Uber eating
2:55
cards from like labor Torres personal collection.
2:57
And I'm like, OK, well, if I, I'm like, I'm not blind.
3:02
I have eyes. And like, if grading costs $8
3:05
and if I get Apsa 9, I break even.
3:07
And if I get APSA 10I double with the triple my money and it
3:10
takes six months, I'm like, that is a good decision to do.
3:13
So I started doing that during COVID a little bit, and then the
3:16
buying and selling was a natural progression from that.
3:20
And then I graduated College in 2022.
3:22
COVID was 2020. I guess with buying and selling
3:25
2 or so years under my belt, I just was indefinitely.
3:29
Yeah, I'm still on the job hunt. Until cards just continued
3:33
proliferating into what this is now for me.
3:36
And so you're 25 years old, roughly.
3:38
I turned 26 in August. Nice.
3:43
I've got 20 years on you. So that's actually one of the
3:47
main reasons I wanted to talk to you because the main sports card
3:51
audience on YouTube is like my age guys, a bunch of old guys,
3:55
really 35 and up. And it really concentrates
3:58
between 45 and 65. And when I'm on Twitter, it's
4:02
just a lot of people like me. And then there's like you and
4:06
Casey and a few others in their mid 20s that have a completely
4:10
different perspective than what we're seeing on YouTube.
4:14
And it's I don't, I don't know that the refreshing is the right
4:16
word for it, but it's definitely intriguing to me whenever you
4:20
tweet out certain things like you talk a lot about just work
4:24
harder. And that's not something that
4:26
people my age necessarily say, but talk to me about that work
4:30
ethic that you bring to it. I will say the and I'm not just,
4:34
you know, trying to be too much of A young and the work harder
4:37
is a little bit of satire and that's why I sometimes for the
4:41
trademark emoji with it. And I know there's some other
4:45
talking heads on Twitter that, you know, oh, just work harder
4:48
and you get to be a big full time breaker.
4:49
And I I kind of stoked that fire a little was yeah, you know, I
4:54
what a great day to just work harder.
4:56
I'm laughing at myself a little bit with that.
4:59
I think that's an interesting scope and lens that you're
5:02
saying as someone who's viewing it like me or someone who is
5:05
viewing it like younger because I personally like divide the
5:09
perspectives, not necessarily by age bracket, which I guess is
5:13
for the most part pretty accurate.
5:14
But I try to divide it by like when the person got involved
5:18
with cards. And although I got into it again
5:21
as an adult the same time as Gary Vee, I like I was not a
5:25
byproduct of Gary Vee. And, and I think people got in
5:29
during COVID. Have no recollection of him
5:33
tweeting about Ronald Acuna Junior and US two 50s going from
5:37
$40 in APSA 10 to $80.00 in APSA 10 and Juan Soto's first ascent
5:41
with that 2018 update set. So I view it as like, OK, you
5:45
either got in before COVID or got in during like an
5:47
intermediary time before COVID or you got in after.
5:50
And peeps, people just have no idea what this landscape sort of
5:53
was. But I yeah, I guess in terms of
5:56
the content side, I consume like a good healthy bit of YouTube
6:00
sports cards content. I think Christy Wall is an
6:02
absolute legend. And I get like and even though
6:06
he doesn't know who I am, I get like an interesting
6:09
understanding of his scope as the more old fashioned dealer
6:12
who may again, not specific to Chris, but maybe focus entirely
6:17
on making sure a margin is there in a big deal rather than just
6:20
volume, volume, volume. But and even then, I think
6:24
there's people that have gotten in post fanatics and post not
6:27
like I've been guilty of trying to, you know, assemble some home
6:31
field advantages for myself, but like, oh, you know, oh, you're a
6:34
fanatics show. Oh, you're this or you're that.
6:35
But I'm like, oh, this person hasn't had an involvement in
6:39
sports cards pre fanatics. So like they don't know how cool
6:43
tops, you know, tops gold waters were before they came like Pooh
6:47
Pooh brown or how story tops blacks are.
6:50
And while removing that from top series 2 with such like a
6:53
travesty until it was brought back.
6:55
So I got. I guess my point is like there's
6:58
so many different perspectives from when the person entered in.
7:01
Those back pages would be very proud that you mention the tops
7:04
blacks. I have to.
7:05
I have to. So contrast your style with
7:10
Chris's a little bit because I see I asked him last week, 2
7:14
weeks ago, where do you sell? And he listed like 8 different
7:17
places that he sells. Where do you sell?
7:21
I have some regular clients that buy from me on like a regular
7:27
basis that's not like on eBay and stuff like that.
7:30
And I do that generally for stuff that has crystallized non
7:34
ambiguous comps. And I think those are
7:36
relationships that you build at car shows or having an online
7:39
presence and coupling that with having a certain like amount of
7:45
volume that you bring each week. I think it's funny sometimes on
7:47
Twitter people are like, Oh yeah, where's where's the reef
7:50
pack? And why isn't he coming to me?
7:51
And I'm like, well, what do you bring to the table?
7:52
I'm like, how much volume are you bringing?
7:54
And of course, I'm not rhetorically asking these
7:56
questions in my own head, but I'm like, if and if you have one
7:59
car that's 500 bucks and you're going to fee your, someone has
8:02
to twist your arm in order to sell it below 500 bucks.
8:05
It's like, that's why the, you know, these wholesale buyers
8:08
aren't really working regularly on people that don't do that
8:12
much volume. But that's a rant.
8:14
I guess I can get into, you know, if the topic comes up.
8:18
But some of it is just wholesale moving, right?
8:20
You know, to regular vendors weekly for live streamers or
8:24
shops or whatever. Some of it is like I dance a
8:27
little bit with just the traditional selling cards on how
8:30
they're supposed to be sold with eBay, with trying to find the
8:33
right collector, which I think is more how it's been for like
8:37
20/21/2023 then how's it been since like now?
8:41
But it's like I bought, I just for example, like I bought a
8:44
James wood pad for Dasha autograph, one of one his first
8:47
omen on public auction from Fanatics for I think 32,000 and
8:52
I gotta go find something to not disturb.
8:53
I don't want to get those pings and I think someone's like, oh,
8:58
how much and I'm like 65 K and it's like, oh, well, you just
9:00
bought it for 32. I'm like, I'm not like actively
9:02
selling it right now. That's like more of a play that
9:05
I'm waiting for March. I might re auction it then or I
9:08
might try to find a, you know, James Wood big investor.
9:11
Because how I see it is that once they start getting once
9:14
these players are getting rookie autographs, people remember they
9:16
exist and then people start buying their cards.
9:19
But like some of them is just doing it, buying the car, trying
9:23
to sell for higher. Some of it is just selling based
9:26
off comps. And I think that's like on a
9:27
case by case basis depending on how cool the card is.
9:30
So you do a mix of quick flips and sort of short term
9:33
investments. I think short term investments
9:36
is a, whether it's for short term investments or just trying
9:39
to like set a high new sale. What are, you know, not out of
9:44
greed, but out of thinking, OK, the card was worth less here.
9:46
I can get it for more here. Yeah, I think that's a good way
9:50
of summarizing it. So if you set a new new high
9:55
sale for a specific card or specific player, do you then use
9:58
that to market yourself? In terms of as from a branding
10:02
standpoint or from A to look at the sale of other copies.
10:06
Both. Either one.
10:08
I used to be, I definitely used to do a lot more eBay and I
10:14
think that's a great method for people that aren't full time
10:19
because it's, well, I mean, if there's one, I graduate with a
10:23
degree in chemistry. If there's one thing that I
10:26
really try to apply from a business stands is that every
10:28
single reaction and really metaphorically every single
10:31
thing we do operates in an equilibrium.
10:33
And you know, there's a principle called the Chatelier's
10:37
principle and that when one side of a product, every reaction is
10:41
2 sided technically. And when one side, the product
10:44
of reactants has too much stress on it, there is, it's alleviated
10:48
to then produce the reaction towards the opposite direction
10:51
to where ounces in an equilibrium.
10:54
And the way I see it, at least in the context of cards or
10:56
business or whatever, like we operate with either like too
10:59
much time or too much money. And then I guess there's also
11:02
buying leads. But for simplicity's sake,
11:04
there's too much time or too much money.
11:06
And if you're working cards full time, you probably have limited
11:08
money, but also more time per car to churn because your
11:13
money's a little bit limited. And I don't have like the the
11:17
time to turn out the high on every single sale.
11:20
Otherwise I'd be strapped for money even if the money's
11:22
turning well. So I mean, there's so many times
11:24
where you can just, you know, especially with vintage or rarer
11:27
vintage copies or rare modern cards and buy the card for 300
11:31
or buy the card at comp or whatever, then just throw it up
11:33
on eBay for $500. And if it's a good card, maybe
11:36
it eventually just gets pinned. And of course you can brand
11:39
yourself with that. The card is not worth $500.00 so
11:42
you can sell other copies at around 500 below that comp.
11:45
But I think it's the best way for people to get involved
11:48
rather as a someone who isn't as active from a buying or selling
11:52
standpoint but still wants to make money.
11:54
It's like buy some cool cards, throw them up on eBay.
11:57
You probably get a bite eventually if it's cool enough
12:00
and then boom, you said an all time high sale.
12:03
I think it's like I have the OR had like the all time high John
12:07
McGraw T2O6. It was one of the variations.
12:10
It wasn't the portrait. And because I leveraged the I
12:13
appeal, I just threw it in my title and then it just
12:15
eventually got pinned. And that was like a $700.00 card
12:17
that wasn't much. But like, examples like this are
12:20
how people can get pretty deeply involved when it's like, you
12:24
don't need to be turning on percentage all the time.
12:26
Yeah, I almost never sell cards, but I did sell a Caitlin Clark
12:30
2021 Sports Illustrated for Kids autographed PSAI think the card
12:35
was authentic PSA 10 autograph before her TOPS cards started
12:40
coming out. And I sold it for right around
12:42
$2000 on eBay. It's still the high sale and
12:45
that was 18 months ago. Those SI kids cards are very
12:49
early in getting cards of players.
12:51
Yeah, yeah, that was my goal. There have been some that have
12:54
sold just shy of that, but that that one's still the the best 1.
12:58
So you're 2526. It's a tough time for somebody
13:01
to graduate from college right now.
13:04
Do you ever think back as a as a chemistry major, what you'd be
13:08
making as a chemist right now in in some sort of field with that
13:12
degree and then compare it to what you're actually making?
13:15
Yeah, and it's it's cards do me well.
13:19
And what I've told like some of my, you know, friends that are
13:22
in like the corporate world is that like it'd be I'm at a point
13:26
with cards where it's like it'd be stupid to not look at it and
13:30
continue doing it full time from like both the financial
13:33
standpoint and I guess from like a nest building standpoint and
13:36
everything else. But I was at the time, I know I
13:39
was pre Med, I was looking at Med schools and I knew I had to
13:42
do an intermediary Med school program in order to plump up the
13:46
GPA little bit and further MCAT prep before looking formally at
13:51
MD programs. And the thinking with that is
13:56
was OK, before I'm going to look at some biomedical master's
14:00
programs. I'm going to get a research job
14:03
at a hospital or at a small lab, further demonstrate that I'm
14:06
confident being able to do research and then continue doing
14:09
that. But cards are a lot more fun and
14:13
that and that was my hesitancy for the job search, you know,
14:17
and you know, and keeping expenses low at that point.
14:20
But it got to the point where the card, the revenue from cards
14:22
just got so strong to where became obvious to where I have
14:25
to continue seeing this through. So you were pre Med?
14:30
I think I found the headline here.
14:32
You were going to be a doctor and you dropped it for cards, is
14:35
that right? I don't, I don't want to say
14:37
going to be just because of how really like the stats amaze me,
14:43
but it's like, I think the average person applying to MD
14:48
programs applies to 21 schools and only about 60% get into at
14:54
least one school and 40% just get into 0.
14:57
So I definitely don't want to say it was going to be.
15:00
But yes, I was very much invested down that path and
15:03
seeing it through. Yeah, I love the caution.
15:06
I'm equally cautious about the things that I say.
15:08
And, well, that actually brings me to a good thing.
15:11
You and I had a very minor beef on Twitter.
15:14
Super minor. Yeah, I was trying to think back
15:17
on what it was. I think it was like I said
15:20
something and then you tweeted something out that was kind of
15:24
related to it and I maybe overreacted.
15:27
I I feel like it was mostly my fault, but I don't remember what
15:31
it was. It sounds like you're searching
15:32
for it now. Oh yeah, no, I tried to pull it
15:35
up. It was the 20.
15:37
The 2014 Stephen Curry Black Prism was pulled and I think
15:44
Fanatics Collect said it could be upwards of $500,000.
15:47
I tweeted on August 8th, so I guess three months ago.
15:51
Or 2 1/2 whatever. People that don't do high end
15:53
need to stop having an opinion on high end cards.
15:56
Rather values had subjective. This undoubtedly and most
15:59
conservatively is worth $100,000 plus.
16:01
Anyone who's saying 50,000 to $70,000 is utterly clueless.
16:05
And you attacked the point lol. The first sentence is Wildman.
16:09
But the people that don't do high end need to have an
16:11
opinion. And I and I, I immediately
16:13
conceded I'm like, my father was, yeah, I woke up cranky.
16:17
But the premise of heating people being overly pinioned on
16:19
things is that they're not informed of is so frequent.
16:22
I said, you said, I literally asked someone to explain to me
16:24
how it's worth upwards of 500. Why not just help us understand
16:28
this instead of insulting people who aren't as rich?
16:30
And also you ratioed the heck out of me to my 12 or something
16:36
like that. And I said, you know, you're
16:37
turning this into something. It's not like I'm operating in
16:39
good faith. I'm like, I'll write a few.
16:42
I'll write a dissertation of like, why I think it is worth
16:45
$100,000. And I'm not that.
16:48
I think I even, you know, you're like, can you put my combat in
16:51
this? And I'm like, yeah, I mean, I
16:54
already conceded I was Moody. But I'm like, you're trying to
16:57
make drama out of nothing. But I'm like, not personally,
16:59
you are. I don't care if you own a dollar
17:01
a million. And like, and I was like sassy.
17:03
I was like, stop acting like it. But well, I hey, I can say I can
17:07
wake up cranky sometimes and I and if I do try to spew again,
17:11
because even going back to like the mythicals, like I don't want
17:13
to feel like I have hubris or ego or anything like that, but
17:16
like at this. But again, it wasn't again, the
17:19
fanatics collect social media account and I think Thompson
17:24
fanics do a great job pumping some stuff, injecting
17:28
conversations for us to talk about, whether that's like with
17:30
this new tops basketball or not. But I'm like, OK, we can.
17:33
We can tone down the clip to me a little bit, right?
17:36
But I'm like, I I think me and I even I know Royals cards who is
17:39
sometimes a tourist. I'm not, you know, someone
17:41
precision someone not I'm like, if that card walked up to me,
17:43
I'm buying it blind for 50K and I'm getting in the debt if I
17:46
have to. It's like, because that's just
17:49
kind of where the market is and thought of those comments were,
17:52
oh, this is just like a base card.
17:53
It doesn't even have an auto. And I'm like, yeah, but his
17:56
black shimmer, I think I was arguing with some this black
17:58
shimmer from 2022 sold in 2024 for 8000.
18:02
And I'm like it is not the same. Yeah, yeah.
18:07
Thanks for the recall on that. I think that we both woke up a
18:10
little grumpy that day. Yeah, and I, I, I still, I
18:13
apologize for the crankiness. No, I apologize too.
18:16
It was silly. Sometimes my Sunday videos, I
18:19
don't know if you watch any of my videos but on Sundays I do a
18:21
a series. Where I I just I have what you
18:25
have some interesting names you bring on.
18:27
But yes, the Sunday videos. Well, the Sunday video, I cover
18:29
all these weird things that happened in the past week and it
18:33
tends to like today, it can attract commenters outside of my
18:38
normal ecosystem. It can attract viewers like I
18:40
today I'll probably get 5000 viewers, which is probably 2000
18:44
more than I would normally get. And those 2000 can bring about,
18:48
I don't know, 8 to 12 people who just watched to get mad and they
18:54
comment. And I sometimes can kind of Stew
18:59
in those comments. And so that's, I think it was on
19:02
a Sunday, if I remember correctly, or there was
19:03
something happening with my channel and commenters that made
19:07
me go at you at that tweet. It was silly of me.
19:11
But yeah, I mean, so I'm trying to get Jeff Wilson on too.
19:14
And Jeff, I have had way more beef with Jeff Wilson.
19:18
And he kind of alluded to coming on and also alluded to the beat
19:22
one of the beefs that we've had in the past.
19:24
And I was like, come on, we'll talk about it for sure.
19:26
It won't be a big deal. And I don't think he's going to.
19:29
Yeah, that's a bit disappointing.
19:31
Yeah, to put the capsule on the tangent a little bit, Lebron's
19:35
Black Prism 1 of 1 from 2022 is at Golden right now and it is at
19:39
$75,000 with two weeks left of bidding.
19:43
And that is a car from eight years later.
19:46
So I just thought that was interesting.
19:47
I wanted to put that Tibet before we get into the beefs and
19:50
not I know I just attacked his job, but I do have to and I
19:55
absolutely respect how to give the what is it the the hot with
19:59
the the the cold or the hot or the the roses with the I gave
20:02
the thorns. Now here's the roses.
20:04
I think Ben Haynes is great at his job.
20:06
I've had Twitter beef with him in the past.
20:09
Me and Tommy were both, you know, throwing punches at him a
20:12
little bit, saying that he's just engagement baiting, saying
20:14
this is this and. Hey, we gave him the heat and he
20:17
came in the kitchen and I think we had like an hour, 30 minute
20:20
episode with him on our podcast when we ran it and he came into
20:24
the lines and then people said like the conversation wasn't as
20:30
aggressive enough against him. But I my response to that, I
20:34
know JP specifically doesn't listen like that I was wasn't
20:37
harsh enough to him. Was that like if he's coming in
20:39
in good faith to talk about some, I will come in with good
20:41
faith as well, even though again, Ben's a great guy, but
20:44
his comparatives of the Jesus Christ, which will always be
20:47
funny. But yeah, it's a little
20:49
disappointing with Jeff that especially since like I again,
20:54
part of it is like with content creation, part of it like isn't,
20:56
but like one of my Evergreen sort of topics.
21:00
I don't view Twitter as like a content vessel because like I
21:02
just don't care. Like I just think it's fun to
21:04
tweet and I tweet a lot of things on my mind and I'm like,
21:07
I was tweeting someone in Pokémon like every it's I know
21:11
I'm getting into a lot, but like I feel like sports cards are so
21:15
like five to seven years ahead or maybe from like literal
21:18
standpoint, we're like 40 years ahead.
21:20
If like tops 52 came out in 50 in 52.
21:24
Obviously there's cards before that a lot more to an extent as
21:27
a young person. But if tops 52 is like the birth
21:30
of like pack gold sports cards and Pokémon came out in 1999 in
21:34
English or 96 if for Japanese, it's like they are quite
21:37
literally 40 years behind and it's like they're just like
21:41
they're discovering fire and reinventing the wheel or
21:43
discovering the invention of the wheel when they find out what
21:45
PSC up charges and I'm like, no, like they make sense.
21:48
And part of my arguments was that was like, no, like I make
21:51
money with it. It's great.
21:52
I I won't shove it up on it. If you're like, Oh, you're
21:54
saying you make money off. I'm like, you can make one with
21:55
the two. But Jeff then like started
21:58
tweeting more about up charges. I guess as I like pivoted that
22:01
to sports for the day as like the Twitter topic and Jeff can
22:05
be a little again, I don't have a personal relationship with
22:07
him. I saw him at Atlanta collector
22:10
Con, I think 2-3 weeks ago. And I'm like, hey, Jeff, I like,
22:12
you know, yeah, you've been making some good tweets lately.
22:14
And he's like, thanks. Just kind of walked away.
22:16
And like, OK, I'm like, I tweet. I tweet a lot actually.
22:21
But yeah, I think it's beneficial for the growth of
22:24
these topics, especially when we're talking about discourse in
22:26
good faith and everything like that, to like, hey, you know
22:28
who? If we're truly not to get like
22:31
Elon Musk, but we're in like, the battlefield of ideas and,
22:33
like, the truth, you know, rises to the cream of the crop, then
22:36
like, yes, everyone's time is valuable.
22:39
But like having these conversations I think is fun and
22:41
important and good for everyone. Yeah, I saw you in the
22:45
background of a Jeff Wilson video couple weeks ago.
22:47
Did you see that? I didn't, which I don't.
22:50
Remember, it was you were at a show and it was just him at A at
22:54
a table negotiating with the dealer, and there was nobody
22:58
else at the show. And then you walked past him in
23:01
the background and there's like literally nobody else nearby.
23:05
And you kind of looked at what Jeff was looking at, and then
23:08
you just kept walking. And I was like, there he is.
23:10
Yeah. I think that might have been
23:12
culture collision because I know he was set up there pretty and
23:15
I, I think that might have been my entire interaction, me
23:18
looking at me like, oh, those are cards walking away.
23:20
Because I'm like, I don't want to interrupt the deal,
23:22
especially if it's like a video recording for its content or
23:25
whatever. Sure.
23:28
Yeah, people are interesting. And that's not a site at Jeff
23:30
Wilson because they don't want to start a war with people.
23:32
But I guess everyone has their own idiosyncrasies and I have
23:35
mine as well. Yeah.
23:37
So let's say somebody comes to you with a collection that they
23:40
would like to sell to you. Do you buy entire collections?
23:42
Do you just buy single cards? I mean like I would buy entire
23:46
collections. It's usually just like such a
23:49
big process and I, I haven't formally done the Chris C wall
23:53
with miss, you know, with the snowman travelling like on a
23:57
four hour flight to like Arizona to buy someone's entire
24:00
warehouse. I haven't done that.
24:01
Probably just use the logistics and I don't know how to discern
24:06
which leads are really great leads that are like realistic
24:09
and people are realistic on price and which ones aren't.
24:12
And especially when you're taking a lot of junk or unwanted
24:17
goods to an extent. Obviously with junk and unwanted
24:20
goods, sports cards, I love them.
24:23
There has to be built in a building to discern like what
24:25
the price range is. And some people have like, have
24:27
a lot of experience with that. Some people don't.
24:29
And another pure person I was getting into a beef with was, I
24:33
think Chasing Cardboard, the guy with the YouTube channel.
24:36
Yeah, Ty Wilson. Ty Wilson and hey, hey, I mean,
24:40
he's clearly specializes at buying collections and it seems
24:43
like he's great at it. And that's just another thing
24:46
that I have to improve on my, you know, repertoire.
24:49
But at the very least, I have buying singles.
24:51
That's the vast majority of what I do and I have it refined just
24:54
because people for the most part know what they want.
24:56
And if they know what they want, especially if they're a dealer
24:58
and they know how how it works, then it's just the recurring
25:01
relationships are just make things easier.
25:05
So let's say somebody comes up to you and they offer you a a
25:07
show. Hey, it's worth you.
25:10
You find comps, you figure out it's worth about $2000.
25:13
OK, What would you say this show?
25:14
Hey, very hot, very liquid. What would you say you would
25:17
offer to pay for that? I guess to give like 2 examples
25:23
of cards I know show Haze Goldman Chrome 2018 batting PSA
25:27
10 not auto before the 300 run game was spying and selling
25:32
consistently for 1800 to 2200. And I know it sounds a little
25:38
bit like ironic, but that's a little bit of a more that's like
25:42
a bad $2000 card just because there's so many of them and at
25:47
least the people that I buy and sell with like may have them
25:49
often. So if I, and also the it's like
25:52
with 2017 patch Mahomes Optics and that like I think of Mahomes
25:57
optic PSA 10 is like $1000 in any given point, but there's so
26:00
many sales where there's one listed lower than what the last
26:04
sale actually is, which is just dumb.
26:07
But I know whether that's organic or not, you know, I
26:09
don't know. But like on the case of the
26:12
Shohei, I'd probably like look at the lower end of that
26:14
spectrum, maybe pay like 1600 when it's paying like doing 1800
26:18
to 2200. But on like another end of the
26:21
spectrum, if it's a Shohei Otani card and it hasn't sold, like
26:28
again, Shohei is a good example just because how dynamic it is
26:30
and it's easy to disable. Like everything is up.
26:33
But like, OK, if his show, if it's 2017 Megabox purple, the
26:39
250 and the PSA 10, which was consistently at $6000 card the
26:43
few times it sold. And that card last sold in
26:46
January for like 6000 and there is no other data and it's
26:49
October. I mean, of course, the old you
26:52
know, thing is like, of course I want to try to do as well as
26:56
possible on the card again and as a competitive of a price as
26:59
possible, especially if it's someone that is unlikely to be
27:02
procurring. But like if like I my arm was
27:05
twisted regardless, you know, on it, it's like I may pay that
27:08
full value or slightly higher just out of me knowing that even
27:12
if the valuable isn't like quantifiable, it's like the
27:15
value is definitely worth more than 6000 and I have confidence
27:18
I can sell it more for 6000. OK, so you've just bought a card
27:22
for $6000 and somebody walks up to you.
27:24
You buy it from somebody at A at a show, somebody walks up to you
27:28
immediately after and says I want to buy that from you.
27:31
What's the lowest you will sell it to them for right after
27:34
you've bought it? Is it a card with a comp or
27:36
without a comp? It's that.
27:39
It's that example that you just. OK, it's that example.
27:42
Then I would try or when I'm buying the card, I try to like
27:45
have a card, you know, value in my head of what it's worth.
27:48
But like if like, let's say the PSA 10, that's 6000 and like, I
27:51
don't know, the PSA 9's at 4:00, I'm making that example up, even
27:55
though it's a card that like gems all the time.
27:56
But whatever I'm getting into like different little anecdotes
27:58
at the PSNS at 4, I'd probably stick with that at like 8, You
28:02
know, and I probably how I operate with cards and values is
28:05
that like the more defined the value is, the less room I
28:10
probably have on it, but the more subjective the value is,
28:14
the more I'm able to work on it. And sometimes it goes in my
28:16
favor. Sometimes it doesn't like OK,
28:18
but if that card's like 8000 and you know, and I'm usually
28:21
getting closer to full market on it, I may let it go for 7:00
28:24
just because it's like, OK, if we're saying PSA 10 is double
28:28
the PSA 9 and it's 8, but there is insecurity and whether it's
28:31
actually worth 8, I'm going to adopt that insecurity in my
28:34
ability, in my value that I'm good letting it go at.
28:37
So it's way less like, again, like maybe doing this
28:40
quantitatively, but like the buying point and the selling
28:43
point are two like entirely independent variables.
28:45
And like what I'm into it for doesn't have to do with what I
28:47
think it's worth. But like in that case, OK, I'll
28:49
just say I, you know, if it hadn't sold since January, OK,
28:52
maybe I like, I would even be a buyer of it at 6500.
28:55
Maybe I would even pay the initial buyer 6500.
28:58
And sometimes they break even on cards, sometimes they lose on
29:00
cards. But that's just kind of how it
29:03
works. So, OK, it's very interesting.
29:06
Thank you. So let's say same question, same
29:09
card, but now you've tried selling it for two weeks and no
29:13
bites on it from your normal customer, normal clients and
29:17
somebody comes up to you and says I'll give you 6100 for it.
29:22
I think that'd be that'd be in those situations like, or at the
29:27
very least like cards that are more risky with that.
29:30
Like I would be depends on how much I need to buy or like if I
29:34
have a big show coming up or something like that.
29:36
But like in that case, it's like if the variable in that case is
29:39
like, do I still believe in the play?
29:41
And like if it's Otani heading in the postseason, I probably
29:44
would hold on to it. If it's January, you know, 14th
29:49
and we have two more and a half more weeks for baseball and I
29:52
don't think there's going to be as much velocity in Otani on
29:54
like the public or the private market.
29:55
Then it's like, yeah, take the 6100, whether that's profit or
29:58
loss is doesn't matter. You know, it's I don't believe
30:02
in the play anymore. And then use that to continue
30:04
operating. Yeah, You know, I see a lot of
30:07
people getting into cards in the last 3-4 years.
30:11
They think that they can come in and be an expert and become a
30:14
great card dealer. And I think just from 30 1/2
30:20
minutes of talking to you, you definitely have the the
30:24
knowledge, the ability, the critical thinking skills to do
30:28
this long term, whereas a lot of people aren't going to make it a
30:31
year in. This was just like with any
30:33
business really, right. So shoot, that was my next
30:38
question was about that. Anyway, talk to me about Repacks
30:43
and the impact that a repack business or the repack industry
30:47
has had on your dealings. I think it's, and I'm going to
30:53
have some trepidation with how I phrase things just because I
30:56
feel like if I say the wrong things, a mob's going to come at
30:58
me. And also like the stuff that
31:00
like, you know, is, you know, should be in like whatever the
31:03
marketplace or whatever repacks are at least probably.
31:09
I mean, for like so many cards are a lot of what this
31:13
marketplace is right now, whether that's public comps,
31:17
whether that's people consuming cards or whatever, as like a
31:20
retail product. And I think people really
31:23
undermine just the amount of cards that are being funneled in
31:28
and out and in between repacks. And I think there's like from a
31:34
buying and selling below comp standpoint, like it, it nearly
31:38
is the market because there there would be no buying at 90
31:42
whatever percent or 85% or whatever percent, you know, you
31:45
wake up with that would come to like a standstill if there
31:48
weren't liquidity of repacker is paying near full comp for some
31:53
cards. You know, they're not paying
31:55
full comp really. They're not really thinking
31:56
about full comp, but like for all things, they're paying very
31:58
close to full market on cards. And like you people say, Oh, I
32:03
don't sell to repackers, but it's like, OK, but the guy
32:05
you're selling to might sell to a repacker.
32:07
Like the guy in between might be, you know, and there's
32:10
sometimes it's just people aren't like, and again, I have a
32:14
unique perspective of someone who's so immersed into this or
32:16
someone who's buying a card every now and then, as you know,
32:19
may not see it as vividly, but like so many cards that are
32:25
bought and sold, you know, whether that's on Facebook,
32:28
Twitter or Instagram, wherever, unless it's like such a cool
32:32
card that it has its own merits for its market climbing, then
32:39
there's probably a repack some point in the machine and or in
32:43
the ecosystem of the card. And I think sometimes, which
32:47
like really damages these conversations is like, again,
32:49
not to sound eucotistic or someone with hubris, but like
32:52
the type of person that you're talking to matters as there's
32:54
people that you know will say, oh, PSA offers exists and PSA
32:59
gave you APSA 9 on your card instead of APSA 10 so that PSA
33:03
offers could buy it back, crack it, resolve it PS and then get
33:06
APSA 10 on it. And I'm like, OK, I'm I can
33:09
dabble in some no politics, I can dabble into some crazy
33:12
theories a little bit. But I think that's just the very
33:16
outlandish. And I'm like, or it's just the,
33:18
the Occam's razor. It's the simplest outcome of PSA
33:21
is selling to wholesalers and they are making a margin on the
33:24
card. And I'm sure there is legality
33:26
for them to have to, you know, enumerate with that and just
33:30
say, yes, this is resellers or whatever and to say, no, we're
33:32
not buying the car to crack. But like, I, I am not, I'm not
33:35
Paul Lesko, I'm not the hobbies lawyer to be able to point where
33:38
it's technically illegal or what isn't.
33:40
Otherwise it's just conjecture. But yes, like from like the PSA
33:45
offer standpoint, from public comps to selling at shows or
33:49
selling online, like there's probably a repack in the
33:52
ecosystem, unless the card is so good that it transcends that.
33:55
And I think as someone who's buying and selling stuff like
33:58
I'm re dabbling and like hit PC stuff or you know, stuff that I
34:02
want to long term invest in, but more so just cars I like and I
34:05
think will go higher, but more probably cards that I like.
34:07
It's like, OK, I think these cards will go up irrespective of
34:10
any other artificial market influence.
34:13
And it's like, and I kind of like them.
34:14
It's like no one is going to pump my super fractor one of
34:17
ones or to bring it back earlier Stephen Curry black prison one
34:21
of ones. It's like no repack is buying
34:23
the six figure Steph Curry black non auto.
34:25
It's not a sexy. I mean it's a little bit of a
34:27
sexy. Like it's like the fundamentals
34:30
of that are in a collector who just wants an extremely high end
34:32
Stephen Curry card. It's not in a repack card.
34:34
So I think looking at cards that like Transcend, that are a
34:38
little bit more, you know, have more relevancy or have more
34:41
significance or have more uniqueness than just stuff that
34:44
can just get churn and burned. OK, it's a 2022.
34:48
Our 2024 Gene Daniels could be in Kaboom and they range from
34:51
about 1000 to 1500 bucks. I don't know what to do right
34:53
now. And yeah, news flash, it's
34:56
probably not 5000 different collectors that are buying and
34:58
holding them. And I have some empathy towards
35:02
people who do buy and hold them into the offseason.
35:05
And I see it more so in Florida and when I was in College in
35:07
North Carolina, which wasn't as relevant back then.
35:10
But it's like, no, you're not smarter than you're not more
35:12
efficient than the market. The the quarterback will go down
35:15
every single after season's opener unless they like the
35:18
world on fire, which even if they do, they won't.
35:20
And Davis Mills is going to go down to 0.
35:23
And I hate to be the heartbreaker, but it's going to
35:26
Sam Howell. Sam Howell did go down to 0.
35:28
And I don't think there was a candidate like that this year,
35:30
but that's a rattler maybe. Yeah, you said, I think in a
35:35
tweet today or yesterday, 95% of all ultra modern cards will will
35:39
go down because they suck or something.
35:42
And I, I agree with that wholeheartedly.
35:45
And that's why I don't RIP packs because there's almost nothing
35:48
in there. It's gotten to the point when I
35:49
was a kid many, many years ago, you could RIP a pack for a
35:53
dollar and you didn't care about the value.
35:56
It would be nice. You've you've always thought it
35:58
would be nice if these cards go up in value, but now even
36:02
blaster you get almost nothing good that's going to cost you 40
36:05
bucks $45.00 for a blaster. Crazy.
36:08
What? What do you collect?
36:10
What's your favorite card in your personal collection?
36:13
So I have some cards with store or not that interesting or some
36:16
cards not. I used to collect labor Torres.
36:20
That was how I got started again as an adult, thinking was that
36:24
he was less expensive than a judge, which helped me as a as
36:27
someone buying to hold and collecting whatever.
36:29
So I haven't sold any of it because it's not a project to
36:31
sell and the sentimental value is higher than any monetary
36:34
output I could get from it, especially now as he's a Tiger.
36:38
And my qualifications for that was like, OK, I want someone
36:41
who's stayed with the team their entire career and so that you
36:45
know, oh, if I collect Didi, you're glorious.
36:47
You can leave his free agent. And he did, you know, and it's
36:51
I'm like, I want to make sure they're have allegiance to the
36:53
team I have so that I don't have the issue of them leaving.
36:57
But Glaber eventually did. But regardless, and I thought
37:00
that was a fun because 2018 update was such a hot product
37:04
and there wasn't even then, it was like there was significance
37:10
to a base. Cards are still very much
37:12
relevant and I was able to dabble with like PSA 10s.
37:15
I'd be able to get like unique low pop PSA 10s.
37:17
I I, I said this more like at times, like I was Uber eating
37:21
for favorite Torres PSA stab money and it's like, OK, it's
37:24
cool. I made 20 bucks.
37:25
I could buy an Allen ginger base PSA 10 of him.
37:27
Like that's awesome. And I slowly like went away from
37:31
that after he goes, OK, like this is there is consumerism in
37:35
this. A, there's consumerism of this,
37:37
which I'm like, I don't want to just collect the cards and like
37:39
just I'm just the product. And B, I'm like not able to get
37:43
like near any sort of the mega major cards because the New York
37:46
market is just so crazy. And I guess the third aspect of
37:51
that is partly lack of interest and that labor was becoming a
37:57
little more relevant. I'm like, I don't need this.
37:58
But going back to your point about working wax, it's like I,
38:02
I mean, buying to grade singles back then from ripping racks was
38:06
something that was more fruitful back then and now isn't really
38:09
possible because bases are relevant.
38:11
But back then, I mean, my hop halted me from ripping wax a
38:14
little bit was like, if I open 2020.
38:18
Yeah. I mean, I I don't know if you
38:20
can see them. I have still some.
38:21
No, you can't see them. I still have some Walgreens
38:23
blasters are Walgreens hangers of 2020 top series 2 that I
38:27
rounded up back in the day from Walgreens is because they have 6
38:29
yellow parallels. That's awesome.
38:31
And that's way better short print math than any other
38:34
configuration of product. And I still have them.
38:37
But I'm like I don't have any attachment to like Louise Robert
38:41
car back in 2020, of course, but he's just a chase and like that
38:45
doesn't like mean anything to me.
38:46
And like opening 2020 product won't get any more 2018 Clara
38:49
Torres rookies like it's it's impossible.
38:51
There's 0% chance so that like so deviating from that instead
38:56
of just wanting the big chase and having some focus on what
38:59
you want in your collection or in your cards.
39:01
I think it's important and I think that's the crux of many
39:04
retail waxer, retail rippers is that they're chasing a number
39:08
and they're not chasing a player.
39:09
And if they're chasing a number and the number is signed to the
39:12
B against their favor when they're opening wax, but I don't
39:16
know, I'm on my home field advantage super factor fix right
39:20
now. So from a Glaber Torres
39:22
collection I'll give 2 answers I guess from a Glaber Torres
39:24
collection answer I sold. Wait again?
39:30
Dating myself here from a hobbyist you know.
39:32
But I had 2021 Bowman sapphire boxes that I hit from tops.com.
39:38
I was interacting with the Twitter user who isn't too
39:40
active right now anymore. I sold him my boxes and he
39:44
pulled in Austin Martin Purple Sapphire auto to 10 from my
39:49
boxes. And I'm like, at the time I was
39:51
like a $5000 card. I'm like, I'm like, that's
39:55
awesome. But I'm like, I mean, I didn't
39:57
say any. Obviously.
39:58
I'm like, congratulations. I was like, oh, like you know
40:00
who your PC? I'd like, I'd love to send you
40:01
something and I'm like IPC Glaber Torres and I'm like
40:05
awesome. Like I literally have like a
40:07
sapphire rookie card right here. I was going to send it to PSA,
40:09
but I didn't really care that much And they were down in
40:12
value. Like you can have it and it was
40:13
worth 200 bucks at the time. I'm like, oh wow, that's
40:15
awesome. You don't have to like you did
40:17
it anyway. And I sent it in, he said he
40:19
sent to me, which I'm very grateful of.
40:21
And I think story that's very unique and I jammed it and it's
40:23
still my PSA laboratory or my, my box of PSA laboratory styles.
40:29
And that's like that. And I think a Bowman Chrome
40:33
first Bowman auto, which was 250 bucks, which again, another
40:37
scheme that was dating myself. Do you do you remember when ALT
40:41
first started back in like the 2021 National?
40:44
There was a $50 credit for every person referred.
40:47
Yes. I think I got like, I think I
40:50
got like 500 bucks from that and like a big chunk of that was
40:55
just buying myself like laboratories mobile Chrome
40:56
autograph from the girls, which is awesome.
40:59
But having those two cards of Sapphire Rookie PSA 10, which
41:03
you can get into the card math of it of like, yeah, it's like
41:06
the Acunia bat up. You know, there's the short
41:09
print in Series 2 and then there's not that many parallels
41:11
of that original image. And that's partly why it's so
41:13
cool. And the autograph for that sell
41:16
for the longest time sold for less than the actual true short
41:19
print image. I know for Acunia it still does,
41:22
of course, because bat town is so iconic.
41:23
But having those that and the bone Chrome motto mean he goes,
41:26
OK, I like climbed like the highest possibility of this
41:29
mountain I could reach without fighting with Yankees fans that
41:32
have way more money for me. And also, I'm like, this isn't I
41:36
don't want to climb the mountain further.
41:37
So that is the pinnacle of my Glaber Taurus collection.
41:39
So that's sapphire PSA 10 of the 698 sapphire, 2018 top scrum
41:44
sapphire. That's like the hallmark of the
41:47
Glaber Taurus collection. And I guess in the more recent
41:49
fix, it's like I like my toss. I'm fanatics as humorism mode.
41:55
I like the rarity of them. I think they look cool.
41:58
But I think the favorite card that I own or two favorite cards
42:01
I own right now are the Mike Trout home field advantage
42:03
superfactor from 2424 toss from update.
42:06
And I have the Harper equivalent to that as well.
42:08
And I'm known as like a Mike Trout truther.
42:11
He's the lesser version of of Griffey.
42:13
And this generation feel like I'm the old man for saying Trout
42:17
is the player of the 20 tens. Of course, like Otani is the
42:21
greatest baseball player ever, which is crazy to say, but like
42:25
he from a standpoint he is. My, I agree with both of us,
42:28
yeah. But it's like I it makes me I
42:31
have again, I'm this is where I'm like 26.
42:33
I'm not 18 anymore. It's like I have this talk for
42:37
how great my child was and I've been like assembling some other
42:40
super factors of tops Chrome, tropical flagship, but at least
42:44
for like my super fractor experiments right now, it's like
42:47
I I'm I'm my the two cards I enjoy right now from the modern
42:50
standpoint are the home field advantage super fractor of Trout
42:53
home field advantage super fractor of Harper.
42:56
And I don't know, I I just like I just like cards.
42:59
You can you can say I'm successful because the critical
43:02
sinking skills. I I just love cards.
43:04
Yeah. And so two more quick questions.
43:07
How much about sports do you think somebody needs to know to
43:10
be a good dealer? You don't need to know that
43:13
much, which is. But doesn't it help?
43:18
It helps but I am so chastised by some friends for not being
43:23
the most immersive into sports that for more die hard Yankees
43:28
or Mariners fans or Knicks fans. And I'm I'm not a Fairweather
43:32
fan but I'm a more casual watcher.
43:34
But I almost feel like like watching sports is like, or for
43:39
me at least, like the sports headlines and stuff like that.
43:42
Like it's just like the news. It's like I have to know it and
43:45
it's not burdensome, but it's like I like I have to have a
43:49
like a talking point on Jalen Bronson or Holmes or Lambello.
43:53
And that's just how I as a byproduct of how I view their
43:56
cards. But it's like it makes me have
43:58
so many opinions on different athletes that I kind of view it
44:01
as consumers. It's fun.
44:03
I mean, we're adults, we're allowed to have our vices, but
44:05
I've never been as someone who's like shouting at my TV for the
44:09
New York Giants and I've become disaffiliated giants in New York
44:13
Giants game because of how lackluster they were in 2017
44:17
post after that Super Bowl. And I'm like, I can't control
44:19
this and this isn't fun. So I'm going to disaffiliate and
44:21
just enjoy fantasy football. Yeah, I get that.
44:25
So how many miles? This is my last dealer related
44:27
question. How many miles would you say you
44:28
travel in a year? How much do you travel?
44:31
From. Arts.
44:32
So this year was really the first.
44:35
I mean I travelled in previous years, but this year I
44:37
definitely took it to a new level.
44:39
I know some people have apps where they can put in all their
44:42
flight information and see the actual distance travelled on the
44:44
planes. I have not done that.
44:47
I know I had a stretch where I did 28 travel shows and my Astra
44:51
gonna travel show is a show where I had to book a hotel. 28
44:55
travel shows in a span of 32 weeks.
44:57
And my geography is pretty poor in terms of being able to
45:02
quantify the miles. But pretty much for three, for
45:08
3.5 weeks a month, I'm traveling to a car show probably around,
45:16
you know, probably on the Northeast on most of those weeks
45:20
with a few select weeks in Dallas, in Chicago or Michigan,
45:23
or, you know, because I went to Detroit.
45:25
Spectacular in the rare instances, California for
45:28
Burbank. But most of those were trips up
45:31
north and not really that far out West.
45:35
Yeah, OK, This has been really interesting, Max.
45:38
Tell people where they can find you if they want to follow you
45:42
somewhere. I am at cards Max on Twitter,
45:45
Instagram, I guess YouTube. Maybe I'm going to start doing
45:48
some YouTube, I don't know. Not from a vlog standpoint
45:50
though, but more spilling my thoughts.
45:53
But yeah, at Cards Max on Twitter, Instagram, and I guess
45:56
technically eBay. Awesome.
45:59
Sounds great. Thanks for this Max.
46:01
Stick around after we're done recording.
46:04
Thanks everybody for watching. Make sure you go follow Max.
46:06
I follow him on Twitter. I don't do a whole lot of
46:09
Instagram, but I know he's there too.
46:10
But Twitter at cards Max, very interesting stuff.
46:15
All right, thanks everybody for listening or watching.
46:18
I'll see you all soon.