Latest / Finding New Waters / Peace, Purpose, and the Foundation of 12-Step Recovery with Ronan O’Loughlin

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Peace, Purpose, and the Foundation of 12-Step Recovery with Ronan O’Loughlin · Finding New Waters

• 0:00
  For me, the miracle. Isn't that I?
• 0:02
  Didn't have a drink or a drug. And I'm paraphrasing a friend of
• 0:05
  mine that I didn't want to pick up a drink or a drug.
• 0:10
  Therein is the miracle when an addict, an alcoholic, doesn't
• 0:14
  want to use again. That's the miracle.
• 0:17
  And. How did I get there?
• 0:18
  I get there. I.
• 0:19
  Owe my life from working 12 step programs and early on it wasn't
• 0:24
  just AAI did AANA and. CA was big in.
• 0:29
  Florida back then. So that got me.
• 0:33
  On the. Road to recovery.
• 0:35
  All right. Welcome back everybody to
• 0:36
  another episode of Finding New Waters.
• 0:39
  My name is Bea Reeves. I'm the Director of Business
• 0:41
  Development here at New Waters Recovery in Raleigh, sitting
• 0:44
  here with our CEO, Justin McClendon and our special guest
• 0:47
  today, Mr. Ronan O'Loughlin up in Asheville, who is the founder
• 0:52
  and owner of Peace and Purpose Sober Living that, you know,
• 0:56
  I've worked with in the past, we've worked with in the past.
• 0:59
  And Ronan has a really good egg and I just have always liked the
• 1:02
  cut of his jib and very, very glad to have him on here.
• 1:05
  So welcome, Ronan. Thank you.
• 1:07
  Thank you B Thank you for them kind words.
• 1:10
  How the hell did you end up doing this?
• 1:12
  Sitting on a podcast with us and owning a sober living.
• 1:16
  Well it I'm in. Recovery myself I got.
• 1:19
  Clean and sober. Because I was a.
• 1:22
  An alcoholic and a heroin addict and I smoked.
• 1:25
  Crack too, so I. I narrowed down to smack, crack
• 1:29
  and Jack so. I got.
• 1:31
  Clean I got sober in Florida in 2008 I.
• 1:37
  Was I was desperate? So I didn't go to.
• 1:41
  Detox twice I cold. Turkeyed on heroin the last time
• 1:46
  I'm. Grateful for because.
• 1:50
  Anyone that's detox from heroin knows it's like a flu multiplied
• 1:55
  by 100. But what the last time, what it
• 1:58
  did for me was it gave me. This this.
• 2:02
  Mental dismantle discomfort that I could never.
• 2:07
  Wish forever again. It was so bad that it.
• 2:11
  Wasn't like I was thinking of living or dying.
• 2:14
  It was way beyond that. And and, and I'm somebody who I
• 2:19
  didn't trip, but unfortunately the first time I.
• 2:23
  Did take LSD. Or anything I didn't know about
• 2:27
  it. I was in a bar in Buffalo, NY
• 2:30
  and someone poured. LSD.
• 2:33
  In my drink I drank it and imagine getting high really
• 2:37
  buzzed without knowing you've taken something and I.
• 2:41
  Say all that to say the discomfort.
• 2:45
  Of of my my last heroin run when I was getting clean when I was
• 2:53
  detoxing, the mental part was enough to say I'm not doing this
• 2:58
  anymore. So I quit heroin in about 2012.
• 3:05
  A year after I. Left New Orleans and.
• 3:08
  I just drank. And smoked crack for two more
• 3:12
  years. And.
• 3:13
  Got sober in Tampa, FL in October.
• 3:16
  Of two. 1008 SO and I got sober by going to meetings.
• 3:20
  Because like I said earlier. I'm I'm.
• 3:23
  Desperate as the dying. If you will and something had to
• 3:28
  change. Fear of death.
• 3:31
  Wasn't even a thing. That wasn't even a thing in my.
• 3:34
  Head I just the. Discomfort of living was what
• 3:38
  motivated. Me to give this.
• 3:40
  Shit up and I walked into an A a room in Brandon, FL on October
• 3:47
  the 17th at 2008 and haven't had a drink or a.
• 3:53
  Drug but. For me, the miracle.
• 3:56
  Isn't that I? Didn't have a drink or a drug.
• 3:58
  And I'm paraphrasing a friend of mine that I didn't want to pick
• 4:03
  up a drink or a drug. Therein is the miracle when an
• 4:06
  addict, an alcoholic, doesn't want to.
• 4:09
  Use. Again, that's the miracle and.
• 4:11
  How did I get there? I get there.
• 4:14
  I owe my life from working 12 step programs and early on it
• 4:18
  wasn't just AAI did AANA and. CA was big in.
• 4:24
  Florida back then. So that got.
• 4:27
  Me on the. Road to Recovery Plus. 20 or. 30
• 4:31
  years of bullshit. And and and everything that
• 4:34
  happened. Yeah, as as as it does the.
• 4:38
  Life of an addict alcoholic. So did you say you you said
• 4:42
  2012? Did you quit heroin in O2 and
• 4:45
  then get completely sober? In O 8.
• 4:47
  I I quit. Heroin in in.
• 4:50
  O6. And I got sober in O 8.
• 4:53
  I probably missed that. Just making sure you said 2012.
• 4:55
  I knew, I knew. I knew what you meant that it
• 4:57
  was before that. Just wanted to make sure.
• 4:59
  Yeah. All right, so and then you, what
• 5:03
  were you doing work wise during your active addiction and then
• 5:07
  right after you got sober? Wow.
• 5:09
  I can tell you this now because I I came to the United States in
• 5:16
  1990 on a green card and I had a green.
• 5:20
  Card that was. Expired in 10 years.
• 5:24
  All you had to. Do was renew it?
• 5:26
  So. I didn't bother to renew it of.
• 5:29
  Course so the only work I could get was.
• 5:32
  Bartending and I don't. Tell people this a lot, but I.
• 5:37
  Bartended for the first fuck 6I bartended.
• 5:43
  For the first six to eight years before.
• 5:47
  I got a green card and I would never tell anyone in my program.
• 5:52
  That that's a good idea because it it.
• 5:55
  Wasn't. It's not necessarily going to be
• 5:58
  a. Good idea for you.
• 5:59
  It worked for me because I had the gift of desperation and it
• 6:04
  was the only. Job I could get.
• 6:06
  You know, bartending you work under.
• 6:08
  The table you don't work for what they're.
• 6:10
  Paying you an hour you work for. Tips so.
• 6:13
  I some I'm not going to get. Into the details, but I.
• 6:17
  I presented myself as being legal.
• 6:20
  To work. When I hadn't renewed my green
• 6:24
  card, but I don't want to get into.
• 6:25
  Detail I used to. Come knocking on my.
• 6:28
  Door but I'm. Fully legal now.
• 6:30
  I wouldn't have brought it up. If I wasn't so.
• 6:33
  That's the kind of work I. Did prior to that I.
• 6:36
  Worked in advertising in London and and new.
• 6:39
  York I worked for. One of the top ten agencies in
• 6:43
  London and I I became a a department head and I was not 22
• 6:50
  yet and. That's a great job.
• 6:54
  I mean, we had. We're at WCRS.
• 6:57
  We're in Covent Garden, London and we had around wine bar and
• 7:02
  because I was a. Supervisor I was I could put.
• 7:06
  Everything on a tab and you know, they gave us a limit to
• 7:11
  keep it in that but. I don't know what the limit was
• 7:14
  because I always. Came over.
• 7:16
  So I, I, I. Was always working in jobs that
• 7:21
  made it, in my interpretation, permissible to to drink, and it
• 7:28
  was mainly drinking back. Then advertising is is.
• 7:33
  It's not about. How good you are.
• 7:35
  It's how good you. Seem to be and I and I was.
• 7:38
  Told that by the CEO he was a South.
• 7:40
  African guy and and. I just ran.
• 7:44
  With that being an alcoholic. So you've got 0.
• 7:47
  Expectations. All you got to do is bullshit,
• 7:50
  right? So I love that.
• 7:53
  Kind of work. And then I got I got a green
• 7:57
  card, came to the United States and worked for an ad agency in
• 8:01
  New York City. And then I moved to New Orleans
• 8:05
  and although. I was legal to.
• 8:07
  Work bartending. I mean, I was I studied
• 8:11
  accounting, but. There are there are very few.
• 8:14
  Accountants that could make what a bartender was making back then
• 8:20
  and it was all cash money. I mean, yeah, unbelievable, but.
• 8:26
  That's what I did for work. Even when I was sober and and
• 8:30
  and I'll just finish with. This the I saw a lot.
• 8:34
  Of me and every people that came to the bar when I was working
• 8:38
  there, I didn't. Realize that the the.
• 8:42
  Person who was being a Dick at the end of the bar.
• 8:45
  That was me times 10. Throughout the years so.
• 8:51
  That kind of worked for me. If you will.
• 8:54
  So obviously it's not a model you would want to include in any
• 8:59
  form of treatment, but given that mirror.
• 9:03
  It it it worked. For me, you know.
• 9:06
  I hear you. I've heard of people being
• 9:09
  successful in a, a or otherwise who bartend.
• 9:12
  But yeah, I mean you. Sounds like you were doing what
• 9:13
  you needed to do though. And you were bartending in
• 9:16
  Florida, it sounds like. Is that right?
• 9:19
  I was a. Bartender in Florida I was a
• 9:22
  bartender in New Orleans and and that was when I was.
• 9:28
  Hero of the Stupid. In New Orleans, bartenders are
• 9:32
  revered, whether they are now or not.
• 9:35
  They were so that. Played a lot into my ego back
• 9:39
  then. So I would.
• 9:41
  Walk around town and people would know me and I thought,
• 9:45
  yeah. You got that right.
• 9:46
  You. You know what I'm saying?
• 9:47
  I didn't know what. What ego was other?
• 9:51
  Than it served me well little. Was I to realize that it was a?
• 9:56
  Downward slope. And so I did bartend in Florida,
• 10:01
  and I came to Asheville in 2012 and I worked.
• 10:07
  At. A A nightclub, 1A Music Hall in
• 10:11
  Asheville and then. Shortly thereafter, I took other
• 10:17
  jobs. And then I started to work.
• 10:21
  We opened Peace and Purpose in 2016 and that was that was kind
• 10:27
  of like the past, but I don't want it to seem.
• 10:30
  Like here's this guy. Who is a bartender and thought
• 10:33
  he had it? All figured.
• 10:34
  Out and then he opened a sober living.
• 10:37
  There was a. Lot of thought and work gone
• 10:40
  into opening a sober living and. A lot of that was 12 step based.
• 10:47
  On everything I learned in NAAI guess or NAI mean I want to vote
• 10:54
  programs but. I mean, the name of your, of
• 10:58
  their sober living says it all, too.
• 11:00
  Peace and purpose. I love that, Yeah.
• 11:02
  Well, that, that's. Actually, that comes from.
• 11:07
  This guy I got. Was in my a a club in Brandon,
• 11:12
  our place in Florida where he got.
• 11:14
  Sober first. And everything you heard you.
• 11:18
  Hear about a A? Like the hand of a, a is open to
• 11:21
  you and. All of this.
• 11:23
  I'm not trying. To be cynical, but that.
• 11:25
  Was not my experience. The one guy who gave me
• 11:29
  attention was a crackhead that called himself China Mike.
• 11:34
  He was from Taiwan and he was my first mentor in recovery.
• 11:40
  And the reason for that was? He, he, he would give it to you
• 11:43
  straight, right? There's no BS with him and I
• 11:47
  remember telling him. I I hear all these people talk
• 11:50
  about spirituality. I'm I'm drowned amongst.
• 11:55
  Gurus, what is your? Take on spirituality says it's
• 11:59
  when you have peace and purpose in your life so.
• 12:02
  That's how that. Came to be.
• 12:04
  I love it man. Yeah, it's good.
• 12:06
  So you mentioned, you know, the, the transition or starting the
• 12:10
  sober living. I'm, I'm wondering, is there
• 12:12
  more that you can share with us about why sober living, what was
• 12:15
  kind of the, the driver behind you felt like that was something
• 12:18
  that you needed or wanted to do? I had a.
• 12:23
  I had a. Friend from Louisiana.
• 12:25
  Who got? Clean and he.
• 12:27
  Was got. He was.
• 12:29
  He was pretty, pretty wild. And he got sober and he, he, he
• 12:35
  wasn't short a few bucks and he approached me and said here.
• 12:40
  I'd like to. Open a sober living.
• 12:42
  He lived in a sober living and I I always sponsored guys that
• 12:48
  lived in sober livings and he said he had the money to do it
• 12:53
  and it's not. Cheap if you want to.
• 12:55
  Do this right, we're talking about over $100,000.10.
• 13:00
  Years ago and that's. Not owning any property.
• 13:04
  That's getting to the. Point where you're not.
• 13:07
  Just a bed. And a cup to piss him twice a
• 13:10
  week. Where you have.
• 13:11
  A house manager. Who?
• 13:13
  Has six months sober. It's not about that.
• 13:17
  It's about it's like a house isn't marble tops and hardwood.
• 13:22
  Floors. A house is a home, and it's the
• 13:25
  home part of. Of of that that molds us as
• 13:30
  people. And why not bring?
• 13:32
  That to sober. Living and I got direction from
• 13:38
  a gentleman by the name of. Jerry Edgar he was.
• 13:42
  The clinical director of one of the oldest treatment centers in
• 13:46
  the country, Alina Lodge in New Jersey, and I had a friend in
• 13:51
  Asheville. Who is a therapist?
• 13:52
  Who? Worked there and he said I'll,
• 13:55
  I'll, I'll connect you with him. I've always gotten on the road.
• 13:58
  So I got on the road and I went to Lena Lodge.
• 14:02
  And I was told. You know they're not going to,
• 14:05
  they're not going to mess with you.
• 14:07
  And I said, well, they're not going to if.
• 14:08
  I don't go there but I was able to hit it off.
• 14:11
  With them and. I guess they saw how serious we
• 14:15
  as a group. Were about our own recovery and
• 14:18
  how we wanted to incorporate that into sober living.
• 14:24
  And Jerry? I asked him.
• 14:26
  I said what? Would you?
• 14:28
  What would you ask? For in a sober living and they
• 14:32
  already had been working with sober livings for years, the
• 14:36
  same places in the same region. And he gave me a list, he gave
• 14:41
  me a list of of expectations. And we pretty much went down
• 14:46
  that list and incorporated it into the programming we have.
• 14:50
  So. We're we're not.
• 14:52
  Just a sober. Living We're a place where you
• 14:56
  can find your purpose and be at peace while you do that and.
• 15:01
  Realize the world. Don't.
• 15:02
  Revolve around your ass and so. That was, that was, that's.
• 15:07
  How it kind of started? That's where that was.
• 15:12
  My motivation to do. This.
• 15:14
  And and on a more tragic I'm Irish.
• 15:18
  We're. We're full of melancholy.
• 15:19
  We can't. Tell a story without.
• 15:21
  Someone dying in it. But my my friend Pete, who was
• 15:25
  the money guy, he, he passed away in 2000 and seven, 2018 and
• 15:35
  he so that made me want it even more.
• 15:40
  Prior to this. I'll make.
• 15:41
  Your death, his debt. Whatever debt, I'll make it all
• 15:44
  about me because I'm selfish and self-centered and the.
• 15:47
  World revolves around me, what that did.
• 15:50
  For me is it just made me want to.
• 15:54
  At least have a legacy for Pete, Pete.
• 15:58
  Chabert, he was occasion and I, I think we did that.
• 16:03
  It didn't make me want to. I mean, I was the one that found
• 16:05
  him dead. I mean it.
• 16:07
  Had all sorts of but all. All I all I saw when I looked at
• 16:12
  him for the last time was. I saw that he was at peace.
• 16:16
  And he had mental. Health issues too, Which?
• 16:20
  I didn't have, but I saw him for the first time at peace and I
• 16:24
  said I'm going to do this no matter what.
• 16:27
  And. So I took over, I guess you
• 16:30
  would say. And it's been a great journey.
• 16:33
  It really has it's. Been you know it, there's not
• 16:36
  many people that have the opportunity.
• 16:39
  To help people evolve. For the better in their life.
• 16:44
  I mean, that's what we're doing. I hate.
• 16:46
  To say we're we're. Saving lives, but we're
• 16:50
  definitely because that sounds to me, that sounds.
• 16:54
  I try to keep it humble, right? That sounds to me like.
• 16:59
  Yeah, that's a little. Bit dramatic.
• 17:01
  But the fact that we're all of a.
• 17:04
  Sudden I'm no longer the bartender being hero.
• 17:08
  Of the stupid but. I'm someone that's in recovery
• 17:12
  and the blessings that I get. Is to see guys come through the.
• 17:19
  Worst and come out on the other side.
• 17:22
  That makes sense. It's a gift, right?
• 17:26
  You don't know it, you are work in the field.
• 17:28
  Oh yeah. 100%, man, it's a gift. Yeah.
• 17:31
  And I mean, I, I like that you made that distinction between
• 17:35
  trying to say, oh, I'm saving lives.
• 17:36
  I'm just, you know, helping people help themselves and
• 17:40
  improving lives. What do you, you know, one thing
• 17:43
  I wanted to add because I used to, you know, when I'm first met
• 17:45
  you, I mean, I was in Asheville a lot like 5 * a month.
• 17:48
  This was, you know, five years ago or so.
• 17:51
  But I know that Asheville became a bit of a hub for treatment and
• 17:58
  by extension, sober livings. And they come and they go and,
• 18:02
  you know, you still seem to be there and thriving.
• 18:04
  And I can, from what I know, what I've known since I've been
• 18:07
  up in that area, You're the real.
• 18:10
  There may be others, but we're like, hey, we're here's what we
• 18:13
  are. We are 12 step.
• 18:14
  And this is what we do and we do it right and we do it, you know,
• 18:18
  I mean, I, I refer to you as a hardcore 12 step guy and I love
• 18:21
  that. So I mean, do you think that
• 18:22
  that has proven to sort of you know for the longevity and
• 18:26
  especially in in kind of treatment years, you know?
• 18:29
  Yeah, I, I, I really do. We've.
• 18:32
  Partnered with some really decent treatment centers.
• 18:37
  Throughout the the. Country and I think that if you
• 18:41
  if you if you're going to do something like open a sober
• 18:44
  living, don't do it thinking you're going to become a
• 18:47
  millionaire because you're not and if you do.
• 18:50
  Your doors will be. Closed in six months.
• 18:53
  The amount of. Kids I saw whose.
• 18:55
  Parents have a little bit of money and they buy him a a house
• 18:58
  and they make it into a sober living.
• 19:00
  That always goes. South and it's all.
• 19:03
  Got to do. At six months, you haven't
• 19:05
  figured. Out that you're egotistical.
• 19:08
  You haven't figured out that you're selfish and
• 19:10
  self-centered. Not to generalize.
• 19:13
  But my experience with people who have done this and there.
• 19:17
  Were a couple of places that. Were competition and.
• 19:22
  A lot of places. Closed down.
• 19:24
  And as you know, I mean, I don't want to mention any names
• 19:28
  necessarily, but there were good programs.
• 19:31
  That we were. More in line with.
• 19:34
  What they did? And now it just seems that
• 19:39
  there's not, there's not much competition like in in New
• 19:44
  Orleans. To be a success is all you had
• 19:46
  to. Do is wake up in the morning and
• 19:49
  in Asheville in this this environment?
• 19:52
  All you have to do is. Have a passion?
• 19:56
  For for that. And if you think you're going to
• 19:58
  get. Rich, you're bullshitting
• 20:00
  yourself. And you're in it for the wrong
• 20:02
  reason. Back home in Ireland, I learned
• 20:04
  a word called vocation, which I'm not saying I have that, but
• 20:09
  priests, doctors, nurses, nuns, they had a vocation and.
• 20:14
  That's the fuel. That kept their engines running
• 20:19
  when you attach money to anything and and make.
• 20:23
  That your soul. Guiding.
• 20:27
  Force you're. You're effed.
• 20:30
  If you know what I mean. That's just my opinion.
• 20:34
  I hear you. I agree with that.
• 20:36
  I mean, we can't serve Mammon and God at the same time.
• 20:39
  Yeah, yeah. And and it's just like when
• 20:43
  people say talking about rich wealth and it.
• 20:49
  It it's just I, I feel that a lot of.
• 20:51
  People I've met have the very unhealthy relationship with
• 20:55
  tangible things. I'm not saying I'm the true son
• 20:58
  of the proletariat, by no means, but I am saying that.
• 21:02
  You really got to check yourself when you do a fourth step.
• 21:05
  You look into. All of this you look at the.
• 21:08
  Things that made. You happy?
• 21:10
  But more importantly, you look at the things that you thought
• 21:14
  made you happy and and it's key. There, that's a good start.
• 21:18
  To humility and to self knowledge.
• 21:21
  And I, I feel that, you know, I have an opinion on everything.
• 21:26
  That's just it. I'm not necessarily going to
• 21:28
  share. It but.
• 21:30
  The one thing that I think. There's a big void.
• 21:33
  In any 12 step program and someone.
• 21:37
  Watching this, they'll probably. Say I'm full of shit and I don't
• 21:39
  really care, but the one thing that I feel there's not as much.
• 21:43
  A focus, as there should be. Is fear understanding what fear
• 21:48
  is 95% of my anger came from fear and when I got.
• 21:55
  Sober first, I was. Told that by China, Mike and I
• 21:58
  said, well I don't think so. And then he went on to explain
• 22:02
  what fear is. And so I think I don't know at a
• 22:06
  treatment center level as some treatment centers have.
• 22:11
  Follow 12 step guidelines. I've seen a lot of change in
• 22:15
  treatment centers and the relationship to insurance.
• 22:20
  I've seen a lot of change in the short time I've been doing this
• 22:24
  and so. What I liked about.
• 22:27
  Alina Lodge, for example, and high.
• 22:29
  Watch High Watch. Is in Kane, Connecticut.
• 22:32
  That's the first 12 step. Treatment center in the country
• 22:36
  back in the 30s. What I like about places like
• 22:40
  that, and there's a lot of other places too, that they are 12
• 22:44
  step based. And I'm seeing, I'm seeing a
• 22:48
  movement away from the. 12 steps.
• 22:50
  And more into. Other areas, but that's just
• 22:54
  that's just what I. Think you know?
• 22:56
  Doesn't necessarily make it true.
• 22:58
  I just watched stuff. And in particular in.
• 23:02
  How? How?
• 23:03
  Could this be done better? You know what I'm saying?
• 23:07
  So. That was a lot.
• 23:09
  Of mumbo jumbo. I don't even know what question
• 23:11
  you asked me. I did tell you.
• 23:13
  I rambled. Though so here.
• 23:15
  I am. Yeah, well, you, you rambled,
• 23:18
  but it all made sense and I appreciate it.
• 23:20
  Thank you. You were talking about fear and
• 23:24
  you said, you know, China might explain that to you.
• 23:27
  And I'm curious if you remember, what did China Mike say?
• 23:30
  I'm very curious. He.
• 23:31
  Said it's ego based fear. That's what keeps.
• 23:35
  US fear of of not. Like he the duality with that is
• 23:41
  you could be. Fear of being left alone and
• 23:44
  then fearful in a relationship. Because you.
• 23:46
  All of a sudden. You start have.
• 23:48
  To act, act, acting right. It's it's, it's a lie.
• 23:52
  Fear is a lie. The opposite to which is valor.
• 23:56
  And if you have valor, not like a Marvel comic.
• 23:59
  Book bullshit valor but. If that's when you have, that's
• 24:05
  when you have integrity, right? And so he, he laid it out to me
• 24:10
  to where there is no doubt in my understanding of it.
• 24:14
  And he broke it down like I used to hang out.
• 24:17
  With this guy for. Hours after my.
• 24:20
  Club closed. Down because I was afraid to go
• 24:23
  home and and yeah, he was definitely somebody.
• 24:28
  I know he's out there somewhere. He was definitely somebody.
• 24:32
  I I did. Have the ultimate respect for
• 24:35
  and so. They call it false.
• 24:37
  Evidence appearing real and and that's that's very much.
• 24:42
  The the truth because. If you're an alcoholic like me,
• 24:47
  you've illusions of grandeur and your thinking is just like, wow,
• 24:52
  when I think back to how I used to think it it, it definitely is
• 24:56
  going to put me in a fearful position because I want the
• 25:00
  attention and I can't figure out how when I walk into a room why
• 25:05
  everybody isn't kissing my ass. This is like back.
• 25:09
  Back then and I realized. That was fear that.
• 25:12
  Came from ego based. Fear if you.
• 25:15
  Start doing the right thing. As guided by the 12 steps,
• 25:19
  because that's. What got me sober?
• 25:21
  There are other ways if you. Start doing that it just.
• 25:24
  Happens you. Know it's not scientific.
• 25:28
  I guess it's spiritual. Journey so that did that make
• 25:33
  sense you? Know what you said?
• 25:36
  Maybe think of a few things. One being, you know, we're ruled
• 25:39
  by 100 forms of fear. And then the other thing, which
• 25:43
  is in the 12 and 12 in step seven that says the chief
• 25:46
  activator, I might be slightly paraphrasing with the chief
• 25:49
  activator is fear of losing something we have or the fear of
• 25:53
  not getting something we want. And and that's true.
• 25:56
  I remember one time I was talking to a friend who works in
• 25:59
  our field who's got probably coming up.
• 26:02
  I think she's going on 15 years of sobriety when she was, had
• 26:05
  been upset earlier in the day. We were just talking about is
• 26:07
  that what happened? She said, I just I didn't get my
• 26:09
  way earlier. You know, she was being funny
• 26:11
  about it, but also dead serious because that's what we're I
• 26:13
  mean, like, I mean that that pamphlet King baby, I mean that,
• 26:17
  you know that. And then and the somebody
• 26:21
  recently said in a meeting something he had heard in
• 26:24
  another meeting, one of those things and he said I heard this
• 26:27
  woman share that fear says what if and faith says even if and
• 26:35
  that little bit. Yeah.
• 26:38
  Of dichotomy and the, and the phrasing there is kind of what
• 26:41
  that's all about, you know, because I get, I mean, you know,
• 26:44
  the every from every aspect of my life.
• 26:47
  If I'm like, well, what if this happens?
• 26:49
  What if, you know, Ronan doesn't show up?
• 26:51
  What if Ronan's, you know, his Internet doesn't work?
• 26:53
  It's like, you know what, even if Ronan doesn't show up and
• 26:56
  even if his Internet doesn't work, I'm going to be all right.
• 26:59
  And so is he. So I'm glad I didn't.
• 27:01
  Reduce you to tears so they got. Tears For Fears.
• 27:07
  Like what I call. Technical stuff.
• 27:10
  But what I will? Say to that.
• 27:13
  There's a couple of. Things somewhere in the 12:00
• 27:16
  and 12:00 it may be 100 page 127 it.
• 27:20
  Talks about. The esteemed members of A A
• 27:25
  asked. The psychologist to.
• 27:28
  To come up. With a characteristic.
• 27:31
  Of Alcoholics and then they got the truth from.
• 27:36
  A psychologist it. Could have been, I don't know
• 27:39
  who. Which psychologist it was?
• 27:41
  That's not important. But it said that.
• 27:44
  We had infantile expectations. Behavior that essentially were
• 27:50
  like a. Bunch of infants we haven't
• 27:53
  grown up, matured. Spiritually, look if you've
• 27:57
  ever. Gone.
• 27:58
  I remember I was at an A a meeting in my Home group in
• 28:01
  Florida on Columbus. The 3333 club.
• 28:05
  And I'm sat in there and inside the door and then there's.
• 28:09
  A coffee pot there. And I got such a an ego check,
• 28:14
  some old guy comes in and he was pretty much appeared to be
• 28:19
  homeless and he said do. They have coffee.
• 28:21
  Here and I said. Yeah, right there, he says.
• 28:24
  Why don't you fetch me one boy and and I'm like, I'm I'm
• 28:29
  getting bent out of shape. My Quran is right next to me.
• 28:32
  He's just he had 20 some years he just can't have he's cracking
• 28:37
  up laughing. And then he made the guy a
• 28:39
  coffee and long. Story short.
• 28:42
  I'm. Pissed.
• 28:43
  Right. And then I cause like it's my.
• 28:46
  Ego. He's he's bruised.
• 28:48
  And I went out to my car and I'm sitting trying to grab a moment
• 28:52
  behind the wheel and I look straight ahead and I see this.
• 28:56
  Guy that. Called me boy.
• 28:58
  I see him sitting in a car full of his belongings and and.
• 29:03
  He just looked distraught. And then like the candle went or
• 29:08
  the light bulb went off, right? And so or, or, or, and that was
• 29:13
  me being childish, or I seen two guys, 2 old men fight over
• 29:19
  coffee in an A, a meeting. It's like, geez, it kind of like
• 29:23
  it puts a mirror up to you and you're 1 bad decision from going
• 29:29
  back to that way of thinking, which is infinite behavior.
• 29:33
  Is is all you? Can you know it's like?
• 29:35
  It's like a kid. Remember they used to put candy
• 29:40
  at the checkout. Psychologically.
• 29:43
  So the kid. Can start screaming and that's.
• 29:45
  Where all it gets vocal I've. Seen a lot of adults behave in
• 29:50
  that way and yeah. Yeah, the the I.
• 29:55
  I know that I. Was I was.
• 29:57
  Very much that person. But there is a way of there's a.
• 30:02
  Way out of that way of thinking, and it's super important.
• 30:06
  Because you'll otherwise. You're going to remain a
• 30:09
  prisoner of your own bad thinking, I mean.
• 30:13
  That's it's just. That simple and so.
• 30:16
  They talk about the. Bondage of self.
• 30:19
  That would be the. Bondage.
• 30:20
  Of self, right, Right. There thinking you know better.
• 30:24
  Yeah. Worse than worse than being.
• 30:27
  Stupid is the. Illusion of knowledge and I can.
• 30:30
  Relate to that all. Through my drinking and using in
• 30:35
  New York City and New Orleans and London and Dublin and.
• 30:39
  Belfast, Everywhere I ever was, there I was.
• 30:44
  Everywhere I ever went, it's the same drunk, you know, and.
• 30:49
  It's it's I've. Been to a a meetings all over
• 30:53
  the United States and you know you're.
• 30:55
  With your people. When you feel welcome, if you go
• 30:59
  to an A a meeting in Pennsylvania or Florida or
• 31:03
  wherever, you know you're with your.
• 31:05
  Tribe, but it gets. You have to get to a mental.
• 31:08
  State to where you. Recognize.
• 31:10
  That they're your tribe. You're no better than them.
• 31:13
  They're no big eyes and little. Uses this.
• 31:16
  Woman in NA used to say back in Florida.
• 31:19
  So yeah. That's my thoughts on that.
• 31:23
  I love it. Yeah, amazing.
• 31:27
  Well, Ronan, we will, we'll wrap it up here, but I just wanted to
• 31:34
  say thank you so much for what you do and being.
• 31:39
  I don't want to borrow the tired phrase and say you're authentic,
• 31:42
  but I do think that we need more people like you and like peace
• 31:46
  and purpose because there's a place for most of the other
• 31:51
  modalities and wait. But I just none of this there be
• 31:56
  none, no treatment without the 12 steps and there be no 12
• 32:01
  steps without one guy know the only way he could stay sober was
• 32:05
  to find another alcoholic to talk to.
• 32:07
  And just that very the the essence of this whole thing.
• 32:10
  And so I just, again, there's so much great stuff on the sort of
• 32:14
  on the periphery and maybe even a little closer to the center,
• 32:17
  but at the very center is stuff like this and people like you.
• 32:20
  And I just want to say thank you so much for what you do, man.
• 32:24
  Thank you, appreciate that and thank you for having me on your
• 32:30
  your podcast and you know all I'll.
• 32:33
  Say is that it's. Been a journey.
• 32:37
  It's been 17 years for me and I still have not.
• 32:42
  Got got shit figured. Out and that's important.
• 32:45
  You're never going to learn. If you.
• 32:49
  If you. Don't realize that and and start
• 32:54
  to think that problems involve complexities.
• 32:58
  And my old way of thinking is. If I wish.
• 33:03
  Something to happen in a certain way it would happen.
• 33:07
  Like did you ever see someone loading up a trailer and it.
• 33:10
  Looks like shy. Right.
• 33:12
  And you know it's going to topple over.
• 33:15
  And then you get that one wise guy that moves.
• 33:17
  Forward battle Hold. And and there's no.
• 33:19
  Reality to that. Belief, you know so.
• 33:23
  Appreciate, appreciate all that you folks do.
• 33:27
  And I'm looking forward to maybe partnering with you.
• 33:30
  Guys, I I would. Like to come and visit at some
• 33:35
  point. I'll speak to you.
• 33:36
  Off camera about that. And yeah, I thank you.
• 33:41
  Folks for your service. And what you're doing and and,
• 33:45
  and the fact of the matter is you're doing things a little
• 33:48
  different from. A lot of places.
• 33:51
  And that's going to make you stand out, right?
• 33:54
  So that's the hope. Anyway, and yeah.
• 33:58
  I I I definitely. Want to partner with you folks.
• 34:01
  Yeah, man, we'll, I'll call you later.
• 34:03
  We'll, we'll set up, I want to bring you down here and do it
• 34:05
  and make sure you get to meet everybody and all that.
• 34:07
  And man, I just thank you. Thank you for being here.
• 34:11
  This is amazing. And I'll talk to you soon,
• 34:14
  buddy. Take care of y'all, have a good.
• 34:16
  Day, thank you. You too.
• 34:17
  Thank you, Renan. If you liked what you heard
• 34:19
  today or just want to know more, give us a call on 9196708119 or
• 34:26
  visit us at newwatersrecovery.com.
• 34:28
  Thank you.