Latest / IB Unplugged / Looking Back, Thinking Forward: Season 2 in Review

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Looking Back, Thinking Forward: Season 2 in Review · IB Unplugged

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Welcome to IB Unplugged, a Kognity podcast for IBDP educators,
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that tackles your submitted challenges and questions, by connecting you with
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experts and peers who share their ideas and stories from real classrooms.
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Whether you're a seasoned educator or new to the IB world, each bi weekly episode
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and guest aims to equip you with practical tips and positive inspiration,
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helping you teach with more confidence, creativity, and joy.
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So whether you're walking your dog or commuting to school, hit play and join
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a community of educators ready to learn, laugh, and thrive in your IB journey.
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Hi everybody!
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Welcome to an episode of IB Unplugged.
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It's been a whole season.
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We've just come to the close of season two
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and what a fully packed schedule we've had.
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We've spoken with some really incredible people,
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been able to do lots of different episodes and cover a wide range of topics
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and themes that we hope have been really useful
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for you as educators as you go in and practice each day.
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And as we thought about this, we like to do a season recap,
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but we can't really go episode by episode.
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There were just so many episodes
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and really, really great things that we covered.
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So John and I went on our own, reviewed
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our episodes, how to look at what kind of themes were popping up.
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And one theme that I realized is we talked to some really smart people,
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and we had some really great ideas coming out through a lot of these
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and things that have then influenced other episodes that we've done, things
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that have influenced the way that I think about learning
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and think about student engagement and things like that, things that I know
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John has been able to implement in his classroom.
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And so for this episode, we're going to take a few of the main
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themes that have emerged as we've gone through these,
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talk them out, give some examples of some of the episodes,
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and give some kind of last minute reflections and last lingering thoughts
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that we've had, that we hope we can all take into the next school year.
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So in this episode, we're unpacking five key themes from season two,
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and we're so glad you're here.
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Let's dive in to our season two reflection with IB Unplugged.
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Hi, John.
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Thanks for joining us on IB Unplugged.
2:12
Yo, Courtney, I'm glad to be here.
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Yeah.
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Thank you so much for joining us today.
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It's nice to have just the two of us, for a little bit of reflection
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and thinking about this last year, because we've done a lot since our last
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season one recap.
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Yeah, definitely so.
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And, I always look forward to the chance
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to kind of think back on the different episodes that we've done.
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I mean, it isn't IB learner profile to be reflective.
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But I really, genuinely enjoy coming back and thinking through these past episodes.
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Yeah. Me too.
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And I think that when we did our first season one, like we said,
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it was not nearly as many episodes as this one.
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And so, while I remember things that are coming from them,
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it was really nice to kind of look through all of the episodes
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and all the people that we went to and met.
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And I think that that was one of the things that stood out
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is how many people we also got to meet in person.
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We did quite a bit of traveling this season,
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and that was really, really nice to be able
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to do some episodes in person, but also attend quite a few conferences.
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Yeah, I feel super fortunate to have been able to meet up
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with some people either at the global conference, for example,
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or at the IB days, or of course, the African Education Festival.
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And just getting to interact with some really incredible professionals
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in this area,
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highlighted, like there's just
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some great thinkers out there and really impressive stuff happening in education.
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And I think for me personally, that was a really useful thing
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because it's easy to get kind of stuck in my silo
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and just start wondering, like, what are we doing?
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But when you get the chance to talk with some of these incredible people,
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you realize, no, I'm part of an inspirational and meaningful thing.
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And, I hope that for all of our listeners that you feel that way as well, even
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if it's just by tuning into IB Unplugged, or doing stuff in your own context.
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We're part of something pretty cool.
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So it's a wonderful industry to be in.
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Exactly.
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So I think it's been a season for me of feeling really motivated
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and proud to be part of the IB community, really being able to
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meet a lot of people, learn a lot of things.
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And I think that when we were looking through these different
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themes that we're going to dive into, something that stood out to me was just
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how much people really do care about their craft
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and how I think that there is a bit of a reputation with teachers where it's like,
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oh, everyone's so busy and burnt out and all, but it's
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such a gift to be able to talk to people who are still so excited
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about the craft of teaching and learning, and that's really been an inspiring.
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And one of the highlights of being able to do this is like
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the enthusiasm that you get when you talk to other enthusiastic people.
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Yeah.
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People are still thinking, we're still developing,
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we're still trying to get better at the craft and that's great.
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Exactly.
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So first theme that we had probably not a surprise to anyone was AI in education.
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This kind of idea of going from a bit of panic and I don't know what's going on.
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And can we avoid this, to
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no, let's build some purpose.
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And overall, I think the message that kind of kept coming back was the,
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again, similar to a lot of things in education, like what's your why?
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And really make sure that whatever you're doing with using AI in your classroom,
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you have a lot of intentionality behind it, and you've thought through
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why different tools are being used,
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why different tools are not being used, and really making sure
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that this is communicated clearly with students.
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Yeah, I think it really exposed a lot of our assessment practices,
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and that's why I think that panic existed
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right at the start is when I sort of emerged,
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every educator was like, well, wait a second.
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Then all the ways that we assess are vulnerable and they kind of are.
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And therefore we had to just examine like, wait a second, are we educating
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so that students can do well in an assessment,
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or are we educating for something deeper and something more meaningful?
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And I think starting with that assessment piece, as much as I hate to
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admit it, was probably a really good place to start to really start thinking
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why are we assessing, what are we assessing and what is that actually for?
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Because, you know, whatever you focus on, whatever is going to be assessed
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is kind of what you end up focusing on as a teacher and then students,
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as well, and for parents.
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So I really loved that episode with Matt Glanville.
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We were talking about the future of digital assessments
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and what they really mean, and kind of what's on the horizon.
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And I think he really outlined some great things with that,
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with regard to we're not just taking a paper assessment and putting it digitally.
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There's some cool things we can do here, that really extract all of those
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IB learner profile attributes that extract the meaningful
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skills, the stuff that goes beyond content.
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And I think a lot of our episodes really focus on that.
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It's like, well, if AI kind of came for our content,
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then how are we going to develop those particular skills and competencies?
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And it sounds like that's the move going forward.
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And I think the way that Matt outlined that, at least put me at more rest,
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iput me more at ease, because I thought, well, this has intention
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that doesn't make me as fearful about AI anymore.
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Exactly.
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And with the IB, there's really this benefit of having an involved
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governing body overseeing the curriculum, because for this past year,
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we've been talking with a lot of different people
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and being able to speak with Matt, for example, and see the IB’s direction.
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It was almost like a teaser for what we now have with the AI principals.
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And so I feel like
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being able to see that the IB is not just avoiding it,
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they're recognizing it, but also they're recognizing the potential,
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and what's exciting about where digital assessments could take us
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and things like that is a really important indicator to have a feeling for
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what should my classroom, or what should my school be looking like.
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And also, on that kind of note,
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I think that Rita did a really great job of also having these
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really honest conversations of what does this look like for teachers right now,
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and what do I need to change.
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Yeah, Rita is such a incredible resource, actually,
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and talking with her really helped frame things a lot better for me.
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You know, we had some conversations in season one
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with Clara Hawking, for example, and Clara kind of
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instilled a bit of fear in me about like, oh, I got to do all this stuff
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and make sure my policies are in order and for good reason.
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For really good reason. Yeah.
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But talking with Rita, I think made it really,
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really helpful as well, because it helped to show me, like, here's
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how to use this stuff principally, here's how to develop student agency,
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what educators need to know how we can work through that
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in AI, and I thought that,
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you know, she just brings such a depth of understanding, so much research to it.
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And, of course, you know, she's done almost every job in the IB,
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so she knows what this is like.
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And so I thought that was a really powerful thing,
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but especially just moving from,
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basically, moving into practice.
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How do I implement policies?
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How do I kind of, be aware of all the issues
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that might happen with regard to AI and not like,
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I just felt a bit more comforted,
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with Rita, like, aware that stuff is going on and I need to do things.
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But I thought Rita's episode really clarified what schools can do to make sure
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that they are ethically using AI, that they're responsibly using AI,
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and that they're moving in the right direction, that essentially
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it keeps IB's values at the forefront.
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They're not at odds with AI, but we need to be intentional
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about how we're developing our human learning,
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and not just outsourcing. That's AI all the time.
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And I thought she did a great job of paraphrasing that
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and making it more achievable for all educators.
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Yeah, I agree, I think Leon also had a really similar approach
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to that, where with him he was talking about
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kind of accepting some students
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will try to offload their work and some students won't.
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And the students who are using AI for the right reasons will flourish.
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And it's your job, as an educator, to make sure that students understand
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kind of the ethics and the why and the motivation for not using
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AI for the things that matter, for the learning pieces that
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it's an incredible opportunity for things like formative assessment.
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But this is where we need you to use just your brain
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and kind of turn everything else off.
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And I think that he had a really practical approach to,
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like, AI ethics is a very lofty idea.
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And he's like, okay, but what does that mean
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when you have that dialog with your students?
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Yeah, just kind of getting a little bit more authentic.
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And I think it's like the cheater's long game, like there's part of me
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that, you know, if somebody is cheating and they're like, well, that's unfair.
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I'm like, it's going to come and bite them eventually.
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Like it genuinely will. It's just going to happen.
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And so I felt like there was a little bit of that in his episode.
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And what he was clarify is just like, you know,
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kids who are doing well and understand the concepts
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and get this whole idea, will probably do well with using AI anyway,
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just as you say.
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But then it was also, you know, it's really quite inspired
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by, again, David Spooner and I feel like we need to have him on HD’s,
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and, you know, he just kind of gives me that dose of like,
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this is useful, meaningful stuff,
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and let's not forget what education is about.
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And, you know, of course, I always come back to that metaphor
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that he used with
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the forklift in the weight room and that sort of thing,
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and the purpose of education being more than that.
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But it seemed like he was really talking about
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AI is here, of course,
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but we need to recommit to that irreplaceable human dimension
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of education.
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What is the point of we're all together in the same room,
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I'm an adult who's kind of gone through some of this stuff.
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Here's a young person or a few young people in this room.
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What are we actually doing here
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that goes beyond just content transmission, beyond assessment criteria?
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And let's value that.
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Let's not forget, like there's a reason
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we're all in the same space at the same time.
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And so David, I think, really kind of wrapped those things up.
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Some of those key
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ideas of like AI is here, there's some panic, there's some practice,
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some stuff that we can really do with it.
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But let's not forget, at the heart of all this,
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is a group of humans in the same room sharing experiences.
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Yeah, no, I definitely agree, and I think he'll probably laugh at,
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his episode is put into an AI theme,
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because I think that so much,
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so much professional development
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and thought leadership around AI is all about like the tools
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and how to use the tools and how to protect people from the tools.
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But I like that we also put David's episode kind of in this theme because it's
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it really was like, it's not just about the tools.
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And it's like when we have a complete shift in the way that students
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can and will access information, what still matters.
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And it's nice to have people that are also
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not necessarily super pro AI.
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We don't want everyone to be like super pro tech
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because otherwise it just sounds like, at Kognity,
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we have this massive agenda to make everybody
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into a super edtech user, and that's not it.
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We have an agenda of improving learning, and I think that you need
13:26
to have that balance.
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And he holds us and everyone accountable to that, of making sure
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that you're being really conscientious about what you're doing in your classroom.
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Carrying on from what
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David was really talking about with, like here, a bunch of humans in the same
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room, it really kind of presented itself as another theme from the season
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that was beyond the actual written
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curriculum, beyond the key learning outcomes and that sort of thing.
13:53
There's humans in this room that we are developing
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and that we're learning, you know, teaching
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and that we're trying to develop some learning there.
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And so really emerged as just the human
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at the heart of the learning is a theme that showed up in our conversations
14:05
in season two quite a bit.
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And I think this insistence that, like, we're developing dignity,
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belonging, joy, genuine human relationships, this stuff
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all needs to happen in the classroom, whether that's an IB classroom or not.
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And they're not just soft extras.
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They're like the foundation on which everything else rests.
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And so I was really inspired
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by a lot of the people that we spoke to about this specifically, like Mateo Tobar.
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And when he spoke about..
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One thing I really liked about Mateo is he kind of, is almost an outsider
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sort of feel to that.
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You know, he's not directly in education, but he's not in the classroom.
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But he had really impactful things to say about how you can get
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involved in the community.
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And when you're involved in the community, you kind of touch the heart a little bit
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more, and people see themselves as part of that whole community hub.
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And then when you, it was just really inspirational to say to teachers,
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when you reach out
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to your communities, chances are they're going to say yes
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and they're going to want some involvement.
14:59
And then the way he outlined that students develop in that way and that
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schools themselves find a deeper identity, I thought was really, really impactful.
15:07
Yeah. On that.
15:08
I loved that, it was calling the students change makers
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and that episode sat
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and quite a few where I was always thinking back when
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or when we were at conferences and we would talk to people.
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I think CAS comes up all the time.
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I think making sure that community involvement in your schools
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was coming up a lot for meaningful learning.
15:32
It's these kind of
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projects that show meaningful change are where students are getting
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the most passion, the most meaningful learning, things like that.
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And I loved what Adzo was saying about her school
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and how involved they are with the community,
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and how it's kind of a fundamental pillar of the values of their school.
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It just it came up so much, and I think it's a core
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part of the IB experience.
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But I think even when we're not talking about it, we were always talking about it.
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So I think it really shows
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just how impactful that really is for its students in the IB.
16:08
Yeah, and it was just encouraging to know, especially as teachers, you want to,
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yes, you want to focus on your curriculum, you want to
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focus on your learning outcomes and that sort of thing.
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Yet, some of the more meaningful things that students are going to remember
16:19
on their way out is how you made them feel.
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If they felt joy when they were in the school,
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if they felt included in the school, and,
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you know, the work with La Mor when we were speaking with,
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with them about their framework for inclusive and transformative education
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and using that framework well, it made it really easy,
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I think, for schools to step in at any point in time
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and start to have a reflective, deep conversation of like,
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how are we creating an inclusive environment for all of our
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students and not just our students, but for all people that are at our school.
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How are we ensuring that they feel welcome,
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that they feel like this is a safe place where I can learn and grow.
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And so I really appreciated La Mor's approach on that
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and the way that they clarified it for us, so that we can
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use that in our schools as well.
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Yeah, they had that framework. Right?
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That was all the
17:08
breaking down the different, I liked that it was about commitments, right?
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It wasn't just here's a theory on how to have an inclusive space.
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It's actually breaking it down of here are the problems,
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here are the potential solutions,
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what are you going to commit to changing in your school.
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So, it was a good framework that gives you a place to start, or a place
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where you've already come, maybe quite far along, but you want to have
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an organized, systemic approach to it.
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And again, one of these things that kind of exists
17:38
beyond the specific curriculum, and I think one of the more impactful
17:43
conversations that I've had in the last year
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or even five years, really, was that conversation with Dženana
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about that hidden curriculum and the idea that there are things
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being transmitted and taught and done in international schools.
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And we tend to think, oh, we're an international school,
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and therefore we are inclusive to all of these different identities.
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But there is, like, a prominent set of criteria
18:05
or accepted practices that we inadvertently end up teaching.
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And I just thought the way that she unpacked that
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and clarify the international mindedness is not just a default outcome
18:16
because we're in an international school.
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You have to intentionally create space for that.
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You have to critically reflect on your pedagogy and start thinking about,
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are there unintentional biases that I'm placing out here
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for how students need to act and behave in the school,
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and to a certain extent, yes, that's a mission.
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That's an identity of the school.
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That's what you, you know, you go out to say, yet at the same time,
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you don't want to necessarily diminish somebody else's identity in the process.
18:43
Right.
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And it was such a good conversation.
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We had to have it twice. That's right.
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Because someone
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was a little bit too cocky about how the recording was going to work live.
18:54
And, I messed all that up.
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But I feel like
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the fates knew we needed to have that conversation twice.
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It really was such a meaningful one.
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I was thinking about it so much after on the live session,
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and I think in a live room and all of the tech things going on,
19:15
it was almost hard to really internalize everything that was happening.
19:19
So then when we got to do it again a second time, I felt like
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I was able to take what we were thinking about in that first room.
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In that first room also, we did a live Q&A,
19:30
where people could start bringing in questions,
19:32
and I thought it was really interesting,
19:33
the kind of directions that we could go there,
19:36
for those of you who are with us in Vienna,
19:39
a big focus ended up becoming on language, and that was something that we hadn't
19:44
even really thought about when we were originally planning this episode.
19:48
And yeah, it was nice to be able to have the conversation twice,
19:51
where it really brought up very different themes and ideas in each one.
19:57
Yeah, it was a bit of a cheat code to do it twice there and feel like
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we knew her even deeper, and there we could get into some of the more ideas
20:05
or some of the ideas in a little bit more depth.
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But, you know that constant idea of helping people feel included,
20:12
like they're valued, like they're an important contributor.
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And whether that's members of a team in terms of the staff or if that students.
20:20
One of the things I really appreciated
20:21
was our International Women's Day episode kind of special bonus episode.
20:25
We got to talk with all sorts of different people in Kognity,
20:28
and just talk about, like, that idea that you can't assume that inclusion happens.
20:32
You have to be an advocate,
20:34
you got to be deliberate in the way that you build your culture.
20:37
You've got to have a willingness to show up for others and to recognize
20:42
that we're all moving for the same idea here.
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I thought that was a really powerful
20:47
message, at least for me, that stuck out in that episode.
20:50
I'll be honest here. It was the week to everyone,
20:53
you already know, is the week before International Women's Day.
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And I was like, it's International Women's Day.
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We need to find everyone in the company and start talking about things,
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because we have such amazing colleagues
21:05
at Kognity, that there's stories were worth sharing.
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So obviously then I call John and I'm like, hey, what are you doing right now?
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And then I do the same thing to my colleagues.
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And luckily we were able to pull all of these conversations
21:19
with really strong women leaders and contributors to the company,
21:23
who have done amazing things in their careers, in their personal lives.
21:28
And I think some of the lessons that stood out were about how to show up
21:35
for the women in your classrooms, the girls in your classrooms,
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but then also how to show up for women colleagues, as well.
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And what can you do both as a woman leader if you're in that space.
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How to show up to make space for others who are trying to emerge
21:52
into and career growth.
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And yeah, I think it was just a really nice episode
21:58
to hopefully inspire you to be
22:01
consciously creating opportunities for women to be able to thrive.
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Yeah.
22:05
And I think as educators, you know, we look at this beyond, again,
22:10
beyond the curriculum. And that's kind of what this theme is.
22:12
It was beyond the curriculum.
22:13
And you recognize I'm developing a young human.
22:15
I was talking with a
22:17
an alumni’s parent just over the weekend.
22:20
They were back for one of our adventure races,
22:23
and just talking with them, they said, you know,
22:24
our goal was never to raise children.
22:26
Our goal was to raise competent adults.
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And just hearing that phrase, it was like, oh, yeah,
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that's actually kind of what we're doing in the classroom, too.
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Our goal is to raise, like, competent members of society
22:37
who can contribute well, and part of that includes understanding their identity
22:42
and helping to bring more of that out, whatever their strengths might be,
22:45
whatever the passions might be and whoever they are.
22:48
And if you're not intentionally providing examples,
22:51
if you're not intentionally advocating for identities
22:55
and that sort of thing, then maybe you're missing out on that.
22:57
And I think that was a real inspiration for teachers to just go
23:00
the contents important,
23:01
but let's go a little bit beyond this as well.
23:03
And I felt like, you know, we got the chance to speak with Haif
23:07
and Half,
23:08
I had seen him present at different global conferences
23:11
and that sort of thing in the past, but it was really cool to have a
23:14
1 to 1 conversation with him, because I realized just so much of his
23:18
heart is in that exact idea of like, how are we creating ethically grounded,
23:22
globally aware young people, that are equipped to contribute
23:25
to a more equitable world?
23:26
And yes,
23:26
that can express itself in some content, but it's more about those soft skills.
23:31
And they're not just an add on, it's the thrust of the IB.
23:35
Like, here's what we're trying to do.
23:36
We're trying to develop
23:37
young people who can go on and create a better and more peaceful world.
23:40
And so to speak with somebody who's so high up in the organization,
23:44
I guess you could say, and just understand that that's still their aim.
23:48
That's the main purpose here.
23:50
That was really encouraging.
23:51
And it just felt like I'm in the right spot, to be honest.
23:54
No, I think it's been a real treat to be able to talk
23:59
to some of the people from the IBL and be able to see the humans behind it.
24:05
It's such a enormous organization that can feel like,
24:10
we talked about it also with Paul.
24:12
So whatever space you're in, in the IB,
24:15
if you have this role, you almost just become the IBO.
24:20
Not Haif, or Paul or, Matt.
24:24
And then when you get to sit down and have a conversation with them,
24:28
they are so smart and intentional and thinking so critically
24:33
about the choices that they make and the impact that they have.
24:36
And with Haif, it was so,
24:40
motivating to hear him talk about kind of the ways
24:42
that he's trying to make the IB work for all contexts
24:46
and how do we adapt for different countries and needs and things like that.
24:50
It was really inspiring to hear him talk about kind of this.
24:53
What does future learning
24:55
look like and how everyone in the IB, not just the curriculum team, are thinking
24:59
about these kinds of things, but then also in his space of
25:02
how do we make this a curriculum that truly can work globally.
25:07
So yeah, really, really enjoyable conversations.
25:12
Are you an IB educator wanting
25:13
to improve your practice and needing a just a bit more support getting there?
25:17
Have you ever wanted to learn more about a specific aspect of the DP program, or
25:21
ask a question to an educational theorist about a specific IB aspect?
25:25
IB Unplugged is a place for you.
25:27
Simply visit kognity.com/ibunplugged to submit your question to us,
25:32
and have your question explored in more detail in an upcoming episode.
25:36
And now, back to the show.
25:39
Assessment was questioned and talked about from almost every direction this season.
25:44
And when we first started sending out the surveys asking
25:47
what kind of episodes you would like to see, what topics you'd like to cover,
25:51
a lot of people were saying assessment, and at first I was like, assessment?
25:55
And then
25:58
grading? That's not that fun.
26:01
But then we were like, okay,
26:02
what does that really mean? What does that look like
26:04
to have an interesting conversation around assessment.
26:08
So then we were like, well, what if we rethink assessment?
26:12
And then all of the sudden a lot of people have a lot to say on this topic.
26:16
Yeah.
26:16
I mean, really trying to get into something
26:18
that's a little bit more purposeful, something that's a little bit more humane,
26:21
like, let's not reduce people to numbers and also just recognize, like
26:24
we want to keep the rigor in the IB diploma program.
26:27
That's part of the reason
26:28
that it's a useful metric or a useful system, I should say.
26:33
But there's so many questions about how you get people ready for that,
26:36
how you get them into that sort of assessment.
26:38
And I was really excited, actually, to kind of flip the seat
26:42
and be almost a guest
26:44
with my colleague Paul,
26:46
and we were talking about that MYP to DP transition.
26:48
And of course,
26:49
we were able to deliver a session on that at the global conference this last year.
26:52
But, really rethinking like how do we talk about each programs.
26:56
Because how we frame them, how we speak about things, really makes a difference.
27:00
You can instill a lot of fear, or you can instill a lot of confidence
27:03
just in the way that you say things directly.
27:06
And what we recognize is that for both programs to feel quite
27:09
successful, they need to be treated as a continuous journey,
27:13
not the MYP is fluffy and fun and the DP is super hard,
27:16
but let's talk about the learning journey throughout the whole process.
27:20
And, you know, it's a constant exercise.
27:23
It's a constant bit of work.
27:25
But that
27:26
one in particular, I think was, was a useful one for most people.
27:29
How do we manage that transition from the MYP to DP effectively.
27:33
Yeah, I actually gave that as a homework assignment to a lot of people
27:37
at Kognity, because as you know, Kognity is entering into the MYP space.
27:41
This is the first year that we're really doing it, and
27:44
one of the biggest questions has been this transition of we've got the DP.
27:49
How do we do MYP
27:52
and how do we make it make sense to go from one to the other.
27:55
So yeah, no.
27:56
Great episode and fun to talk to Paul,
28:00
and be able to do a couple of episodes with him.
28:02
He's great. As always,
28:03
I mean, we got another one with him when we did kind of the behind the scenes
28:06
IA moderation, curriculum reviews, how the IB does the whole internal processes.
28:11
And, you know, I'm fortunate to get to work with him and it's nice
28:15
to have those kind of moments
28:16
where you recognize like, oh, I'm kind of like a super expert
28:20
right here that I get to hang out with most days, and I almost felt like
28:23
I almost undervalue him on the days, because when we had that conversation,
28:27
it just really highlighted how important it is for all teachers.
28:31
Like know this process.
28:33
The more you know about it, the less intimidating it feels.
28:36
And the more we recognize that, especially for our students and our teachers
28:39
excuse me, students, teachers and parents, we are VIB.
28:43
You know, when they say like, oh, the IB this, and the IB that, it's like,
28:46
well, that's us.
28:47
And so the more we understand the systems behind it,
28:50
the better we can show up for all of our stakeholders.
28:53
And so I thought that was a really nice way
28:55
to kind of clarify the backstory or behind the curtain kind of thing.
28:58
And Paul did a great job with that one.
29:00
No, I agree, I agree, and I think that these kind
29:03
of episodes talking about the assessment, we also talked about business management.
29:07
We did that deep dive with Maria.
29:08
We did focus on IB assessment, but then we also focused a lot on
29:14
what else is there and what else could there be.
29:17
And I think that Matt Hayes, his episode of kind of his every,
29:22
all the work that he's doing to show
29:24
what student learning can be outside of those tasks, was also one that really stuck
29:29
with me of like, he's doing great things to help students
29:33
showcase their strengths and to be able to have another way
29:38
to prove that they're growing and learning and thriving and really showing
29:44
alternatives to test scores that can be able, can demonstrate
29:49
what a student is really doing inside their learning experience.
29:54
Yeah, I mean, his work is brilliant.
29:55
It's great, because especially in international contexts, a lot of people,
29:59
parents and students, look to grades because it's
30:02
the simplest symbolic form of how they're doing.
30:05
But what Matt's doing is really capturing all the stuff that they're doing,
30:09
that they're developing along the way and making that a nice visual,
30:13
so that's easy to interpret as well.
30:15
It doesn't come down to a letter or a number or something like that,
30:17
but it's a visual representation of what somebody can do.
30:20
And it just shows that, like if we only recognize grades,
30:23
they capture such a small piece of what a student's really doing.
30:26
And if you want that more expansive, evidence grounded approach,
30:32
we can recognize that stuff and we can put a symbol with it, too.
30:34
So Matt is doing some great work there
30:36
with citizens, and it was really cool to highlight that.
30:38
And I know for us, we took inspiration for that.
30:41
And we're
30:42
incorporating some of those images and that sort of stuff in our reports
30:46
now, we really want to try to show our global citizenship framework for
30:50
both our students and their parents.
30:51
And so they look at this and they see, oh, here's where my specific strengths are.
30:55
It just for me, it made so much sense, like, let's go beyond
30:58
the grade and let's go into something that actually demonstrates
31:01
what I can do, what I know. Yeah.
31:04
And so I thought, yeah, the work that Matt is doing is excellent,
31:06
and it really helps push us forward in good ways.
31:09
And part of that, like policy reflection, basically, like looking into
31:13
how are we actually showing in this case reports for young people.
31:17
It just really broaden that idea of Rohit's,
31:20
episode where we were talking about the personal development plan.
31:24
How you can get better as a school requires that reflection.
31:26
And some of that is policy redevelopment.
31:29
Some of that is deep dive into what systems are working here as well.
31:32
And I think sometimes educators and especially DP coordinators,
31:36
we look at the PDP and we're like, oh, another set of boxes to tick,
31:40
and another like accreditation journey.
31:42
But it becomes way more meaningful when it's connected to that timely
31:46
and those real moments in students journeys.
31:48
And I thought Rohit did a great job of connecting the purpose of that to the PDP.
31:53
When I think about from the beginning with this podcast, this is one
31:56
area where we've really had a lot of strong,
32:00
clear takeaways of things that you can do in your different classrooms
32:04
and in your schools, to be able to have alternatives to just the grade.
32:08
And that's something that we've been able to see through both seasons.
32:12
When we talked about Conrad's episode with the learner passport,
32:16
when we talked with Matt about the deep learning seminar,
32:20
and there are ways to actually measure and meaningfully assess,
32:25
or at least grow with your metacognition skills and things like that.
32:30
And with the episodes that we just talked about,
32:33
but then even with Matt Glanville within the IBO,
32:36
these are things that they're all thinking about and really saying,
32:39
we want to move into this direction.
32:42
I think back to our theme of AI, it's forced us in a lot of ways
32:46
to reconsider what matters most and how do we actually assess it.
32:50
So I've been really happy about this theme, and I really enjoyed seeing
32:54
all of these different ways that people are thinking about how to measure
33:00
student learning and really show it beyond just the grades.
33:04
Now we just need to get the universities on board.
33:07
That's it.
33:10
The fourth theme that we identified as we did this analysis
33:13
here was this idea of student agency and real world relevance.
33:16
It just seemed like again and again throughout all of our episodes
33:20
this season, guests were asking a fundamental question about are students
33:24
just passive recipients of content, or are they actively engaged
33:27
in being an agent of their own learning in the classroom and beyond that as well?
33:32
Even starting with our second episode of the season with John Cannings, you know,
33:35
he really looked at sustainable education and specifically why it works
33:39
best in an inquiry driven model in a community connected model.
33:44
And when you give it some real stakes. When students actually feel like
33:47
I'm doing something with a purpose that matters
33:50
and it goes beyond something that's going to be on a report or something
33:53
that's in a grade, that's just going to be shared
33:54
with me and my parents, then suddenly it has much greater impact.
34:00
And so it just showed me that, you know, it's not a curriculum add on,
34:03
but when you meaningfully engage with it and you can get some great sustainability
34:07
in education, and again, you can really develop that student agency quite well.
34:11
Yeah.
34:11
It's so important to, again, what we've been talking about
34:15
with a lot of different people, like, how does your
34:19
mission and your vision and the values of your school show up in meaningful ways?
34:24
And I think that more and more,
34:25
we're seeing a lot of schools that are really wanting sustainability
34:29
to be a core element of what their students are thinking about
34:34
and how they're thinking about the curriculum and their learning.
34:37
And so I think this was
34:39
a really strong way of how do we bring this to the forefront.
34:43
Another one that is in that same vein was with Jennifer Brandsberg-Engelmann.
34:49
These are both authors of Kognity textbooks,
34:51
and they're both fantastic people that are really trying to drive
34:55
these ideas forward.
34:57
With Jennifer, we were talking about teaching for regeneration
35:00
and I remember at first when I was thinking
35:03
about how to work with her, she's done our economics book, and I was thinking
35:06
that this would be a great economics bonus episode.
35:11
And then as we were going, I was like, no, no, everyone needs to listen to this.
35:14
Yeah, yeah.
35:15
I mean, I felt like I got a nice,
35:17
you know, deep dive into economics in general,
35:19
but the thing that really stuck with me was how to challenge
35:23
those economic axioms, I guess, or those unspoken,
35:28
or just assumed ways that we speak about our content,
35:31
that we might not even be realizing we're painting a whole picture about what
35:35
this means, what it says.
35:36
You know, the thing that stuck out to me from her episode was,
35:38
you know, we call these things negative externalities instead of recognizing
35:42
they're part of an overall system.
35:43
And, you know, my limited economic knowledge was like, well, yeah,
35:47
but that's just what they're called, and that's how we use them.
35:49
And she really helped to open up this idea that, you know, if you don't challenge
35:53
that, then you're kind of left to thinking this is kind of how it goes.
35:56
And so challenging the ways that we label things,
35:59
we identify things,
36:00
can be one of the most powerful ways
36:01
to help develop students who are going to think
36:03
more critically about the world they're entering.
36:05
And that, of course, is going to develop that student agency even more.
36:09
And I think that agency
36:11
you start seeing it play out, it was really interesting this season.
36:15
We also got to talk to a few people who were previously IB
36:18
students, and now either in the IB world.
36:22
And one of those that stands out for me is obviously Amy.
36:26
Who now I'm one degree from the Dalai Lama.
36:29
Thank you very much.
36:31
What is it?
36:31
The one degree of separation.
36:33
Yeah.
36:33
Like, this has got to be my best one now.
36:38
But it was really cool talking with her about,
36:40
you can see,
36:43
maybe you see a lot more
36:45
IB alumni and see how there are certain parts of the curriculum
36:49
and that really play out in the way they make decisions in their life.
36:53
But for her, it was so clear when she was talking about how education
36:57
can be a force for change and how it was a force for change for her.
37:02
So I think that it's
37:05
so important to think about how things like sustainability,
37:10
how change making
37:11
and all of these elements are part of the curriculum,
37:13
because that's ultimately what's going to shape the rest of their lives.
37:17
And she was such a good example of that.
37:19
Yeah, I think so.
37:20
That idea that, you know,
37:22
changing lives isn't just when you're delivering it to a community
37:25
or something like that, but rather when the community is built
37:27
as part of it, like they're in there from the foundation.
37:30
That's where you build
37:30
in that idea of like dignity and trust in the shared aspiration.
37:33
And yeah, it was cool to see, you know, an IB alum bringing up exactly
37:39
those themes that we're really hoping that we deliver within the IB program itself.
37:43
And I think, you know,
37:45
we'd be remiss not to mention Terence's episode and this idea of, like,
37:48
rethinking classroom innovation and how we can develop student agency.
37:52
Sometimes we just sort of think like, hey, here's a tech platform
37:55
or here's an AI thing.
37:57
Let me just start using it
37:58
and throw it at the students because they're going to know it.
38:00
And I should probably try to be ahead of it as well.
38:02
But it just seemed like the main takeaway is intentional technology use.
38:07
You need to start with the learning outcome.
38:08
And if you're learning outcomes how to develop student agency,
38:12
start with what you're trying to get from your students, not the tech tool,
38:16
and then work backwards from there.
38:17
You don't necessarily have to work with, oh, we need to develop this tech tool
38:20
because otherwise you're not going to be literate on it.
38:22
It's like, no, let me start with the learning outcome.
38:24
And if I want to develop agents,
38:26
you know, students who are agents of their own learning,
38:28
maybe there are some tools that can support this, maybe not, but
38:31
it just really help to reframe the way that we think about tech in education.
38:35
And so again, just good to see people who are kind of
38:38
outside of this doing some really great work
38:40
in the communities, noticing the impact that we can have in the IB systems.
38:46
Another thing that
38:47
came up a lot for us when we were doing this survey,
38:50
asking what you want to hear about, was educator well-being,
38:54
and educator growth, and something that comes up
38:58
in a lot of conversations that I've had in the past is
39:02
I love being an educator, and no offense, John,
39:06
I don't want to be an administrator, but I want to feel like I'm growing and
39:10
I'm developing and I'm refining my craft, and I have this career growth.
39:16
And so between balancing this wellness, this career growth,
39:20
all of these kind of things, I think we've had some really nice conversations
39:23
with a lot of different people that have helped in both of those directions.
39:27
Yeah.
39:27
I mean, when we talk about growing as an educator,
39:29
I thought the episode with Gareth, you know, our first episode of the season,
39:33
of course, it focused a lot on metacognition
39:35
and how you can help students develop
39:37
their own metacognitive strategies.
39:38
But he was basically saying that, you know, the conditions
39:40
that allow students to reflect and take risks and own their own learning,
39:44
you first got to exhibit them in the adults as well.
39:47
So as an adult, if you want to be growing as an educator and getting better
39:51
and really having some meaningful outcomes from your students, it seemed like
39:54
the main way to do that was to yourself.
39:57
Reflect, take risks, own my learning.
40:01
You know, be intentional about how I'm growing specifically and
40:04
take ownership of it.
40:05
What I really walked away from that thinking is sometimes, you know,
40:09
I wouldn't call myself an administrator,
40:11
but I am involved in senior leadership decisions at the school,
40:14
and there are moments where you feel like, is it my responsibility to take care of
40:18
somebody else's well-being?
40:19
Is it my responsibility to take care of their growth?
40:21
And I think there are certain structures we can put in place that help with that.
40:25
But at the same time, you know, individual growth and individual well-being
40:30
kind of depends on the individual and how they want to grow from that.
40:33
And so I just really love the way that he framed that.
40:35
He said, you know, when it comes to metacognition,
40:37
develop it in your students.
40:38
But in order to get there,
40:39
you yourself as the educator need to be practicing the same things.
40:43
Yeah.
40:44
Do you know who I think did it really well? It was Temitope,
40:46
when she was talking about all of the coaching at her school.
40:49
That was one of the most clear, actionable programs
40:55
that I've seen with a school of this is how we coach and how deliberate
41:00
all the decision making was, was like, the person who's coaching you on
41:03
your subject is not going to be the person who's your people leader.
41:08
However, you would call it.
41:10
And these
41:11
are the spaces that we create to make sure people are learning together.
41:15
It was such a thoughtful and well designed way of really making
41:20
sure that professional development was at the forefront of their school.
41:23
Yeah, we took some inspiration from that one, actually,
41:25
and we developed a quality enhancement framework here at the school,
41:29
and we have kind of our weekly meetings that we call the theory
41:33
into practice or tip sessions, which we then just completely revamped
41:36
and basically allowing intentional spaces of coaching.
41:41
So we just have, you know,
41:42
I think we've got a couple of weeks planned for this academic year where it's
41:45
just your meeting with your coach, you're reflecting, you're coming up with ideas.
41:48
What are the things that you want to get better at?
41:50
And so yeah, we took a lot of inspiration from Temitope’s approach.
41:55
And now we're going to try it out.
41:56
We want to try it here at the school
41:57
and see how we can make that a lot better, because we recognize it,
42:00
you know, educators are no, I don't think any educator
42:04
comes in being like, I'm going to do a bad job today.
42:06
My goal is to be really difficult.
42:08
No, you know, no, we all want to get better.
42:10
We want to be, you know, good for our students.
42:12
And I think the reality of the landscape of education right now
42:16
is it's complex and it's challenging, and especially when we layer on
42:21
trying to identify academic integrity issues, for example, in the age of AI,
42:25
and all these things that can happen with students who show up
42:27
and they need to feel included, they need to feel valued.
42:30
There's this wide, wide
42:32
range that kind of goes well beyond just differentiating your content.
42:36
And that's where I felt that work with Dianne Blackburn was really cool.
42:39
That episode where she really outlined universal design for learning,
42:42
why that's such a benefit for students, but also for teachers like you can look
42:46
after your own growth, your own well-being when you're using these UDL principles.
42:51
And it's, you know, it's not really about a whole new add on or something else.
42:56
It's about doing things are framing it just a bit differently,
42:59
so that everybody in the room can get better.
43:02
And then it was really cool to follow that up with that conversation with Wayne,
43:05
who of course, you know, at Kognity and talking about that intentional design.
43:09
Yeah. No, I definitely agree.
43:11
And I think that something that stands out again across all of our episodes
43:16
is something that maybe in the edtech space, people throw too lightly,
43:21
and I would say most edtech products somewhere on their website,
43:25
including ours, it's like we help you teach with confidence,
43:29
and it is so hard to teach with confidence
43:33
in this day and age or whatever
43:37
you want to call it, like that is so much easier said than done.
43:40
Now where on your best day are you really able
43:44
to teach with confidence and feel like, oh yeah, I nailed this lesson and I'm
43:49
I've nailed this
43:51
way of teaching.
43:52
I mean, everything's been changing so quickly for everybody.
43:56
And that's something that I think
43:58
a lot of people have given some really great advice about.
44:01
And acknowledging that it's hard to teach with confidence,
44:06
actually, when it comes to what tools are your students using.
44:12
Classroom management used to be a very different thing than it is now.
44:16
And all of these elements come into play that it's not just about
44:21
understanding the content, understanding the exam and having classroom management.
44:25
There are so many external factors there.
44:27
And one episode that surprised me in a really good way was with John Hattie.
44:33
I had revisited, not reread the entire thing, but
44:37
I revisited a lot of elements of Visible Learning and a couple of his other books,
44:41
and I was like, yeah, I feel really on top of all of this again.
44:44
And then I don't think we talked about anything
44:46
I thought we were going to talk about,
44:48
but in a really good way, where he was so focused on
44:52
the teachers in the classroom being such a core element of the learning,
44:55
which afterwards you're like, duh, of course.
44:59
But thinking about the teachers, are you letting your students ask enough
45:05
questions, or things like that of like, what does your classroom look like?
45:09
Are you learning as a teacher?
45:12
These kind of things really stuck with me after as, yeah, of course,
45:16
these are some of the most important elements.
45:19
Yeah.
45:20
Well, in to your point about how complex the role is these days
45:24
and how complex it is
45:25
to look after all the aspects that we're trying to grow
45:27
when we're developing, you know, young adults.
45:30
I was really glad to get a chance to speak with Elizabeth Imende, and talk about,
45:34
you know, the collaborations, the power of learning communities
45:38
and learning across different schools because it's very easy to silo
45:42
and be like, well, I'm the only global politics teacher in my school, or I'm
45:46
the only, you know, whatever.
45:47
And you kind of feel isolated.
45:49
But I thought that she really highlighted that, you know, for teacher
45:52
development and growth,
45:53
don't forget you've got a great community around you.
45:56
And associations, they're not just there for networking.
45:59
They're not just there for, yeah,
46:01
like, oh yeah, we were part of an association.
46:03
It makes us better.
46:03
But at, you know, their best.
46:05
They're these engines of systemic change.
46:07
They connect educators across different schools
46:10
and they help us develop in ways that individual institutions can't.
46:14
And I know, you know, for me, that made me feel like I'm really glad
46:18
to be a part of the association we’re part of
46:19
and made me, kind of gave me a little boost to be like,
46:22
let me do some more stuff with that association.
46:24
And I hope for our listeners too, just recognizing that
46:27
while you can use, for example, IB Unplugged or other mini PD’s
46:32
and that sort of thing to help improve
46:33
an association can be a really, really great way for you to improve your practice
46:36
also, and kind of share these strategies across other educators out there.
46:43
So we did it.
46:44
Those are our five themes that we thought of for this season.
46:47
And it has been such a journey and so much fun to talk to all of these people.
46:51
Definitely.
46:52
And it was kind of fun to recognize that these themes sort of pulled out
46:55
at the end of it.
46:55
Obviously, we are intentional about who we want to talk to, and we're reflective
46:59
in terms of receiving feedback
47:01
and what are the main questions and concerns that you want us to tackle.
47:04
And then it was really cool at the flip side of it, to recognize,
47:07
oh, these are kind of the key ideas that showed up.
47:09
But to that end, it's just an encouragement for all of you out there.
47:12
If you're interested and you want to hear a specific thing,
47:14
or if you want to know a little bit more to help enhance your practice,
47:17
or you've got so many in mind that you think we should talk to,
47:20
and amplify their voice a little bit, you know, let us know, because that's
47:23
what we're here for.
47:24
IB Unplugged
47:25
is a really, really good opportunity to talk with some amazing professionals
47:28
out there.
47:28
I think of it as like a micro PD session, a little dose of how to get better.
47:33
And season two has just been incredible.
47:36
A good chance to talk with some really inspirational people.
47:39
I love getting to do these conversations
47:41
and get to learn from all these people as well.
47:43
And I know for me personally, it's enhanced my practice quite a bit.
47:46
Yeah.
47:46
What are you looking forward to most for season three, John?
47:49
Oh well, already I'm excited that we're talking to a couple of alumni.
47:54
I know that we've got some people who have just finished
47:56
the diploma program, for example, and we're talking with them and I think,
48:00
you know, as an educator, you often look at your students,
48:04
you just want to see, like, did they go on to do something cool?
48:06
So I'm really excited about that.
48:08
I know in season three we've got some excellent guests lined up already.
48:13
So yeah, I just get inspired and there's some times where you're like,
48:16
hey, we booked this person and I do a little dance.
48:19
I'm like, oh, we got that person.
48:20
So, I'm looking forward to it.
48:22
What about for you?
48:23
I am excited.
48:26
Also, I think we have a great lineup of people
48:28
that either we already have booked or people
48:31
that don't know they're about to be booked,
48:32
but I hope that they'll be excited to be on the show.
48:35
We're going to volun tell them to join the show.
48:37
Exactly. Call them out right now.
48:39
I'm like, well, we've already committed.
48:42
No, I think that I'm excited.
48:45
Like I said, for new conversations, one thing that came up
48:48
when we originally were pitching, we're like, are you going to be able
48:50
to keep coming up with topics for long enough to keep this thing going?
48:55
And yes, absolutely.
48:57
I mean, there so many people doing so many amazing things that
49:02
I'm so lucky to be
49:04
able to hear and kind of create a space for them to talk about.
49:07
So, definitely excited about that, excited about some of the conferences
49:11
coming up this year.
49:13
It's really fun to meet everybody in person.
49:17
And it's so exciting when somebody comes up and is like,
49:20
oh, I listen to IB Unplugged.
49:21
I love the episode about blah blah, blah, and this is what I do in my classroom.
49:25
And it's like, yes, this is why I do what I do.
49:30
So yeah, more of that.
49:32
And more episodes with you, John.
49:34
It's been a pleasure.
49:35
Oh, it definitely is.
49:36
I'm so excited to be part of this journey with you, Courtney,
49:38
and with Katie, our producer, and of course, our editor as well.
49:42
So, so many really great things we got going on with this show.
49:44
And it's such a pleasure to be able to share this with each of you.
49:47
And we hope that you enjoyed this season of IB Unplugged,
49:51
and we hope to see you for season three coming up here soon as well.
49:54
So thanks everybody.
49:55
IB Unplugged is a Kognity podcast, hosted by John Patton
49:59
and Courtney Marline and produced by Katilina Gaffney.
50:02
Be sure to subscribe or follow and share with your fellow IB educators.
50:06
If you'd like to submit a topic, request, or a question, please do so
50:09
on kognity.com/ibunplugged.
50:12
Let's keep the conversation going
50:13
and support each other in teaching with confidence, creativity and joy.
50:17
See you next time.