Latest / Adventure Sports Podcast / Ep. 1143: AT Skiing and Base Jumping with Trevor Thompson

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Ep. 1143: AT Skiing and Base Jumping with Trevor Thompson · Adventure Sports Podcast

0:06
[SPEAKER_00]: You're listening to the Adventure Sports podcast.
0:08
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk with adventurers from around the globe to bring you the inspiration and motivation you need to get started in the outdoors or to keep you moving if you're already there.
0:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Now here's your host, Kurt Lindville.
0:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey everyone, thank you for joining the Adventure Sports podcast today.
0:23
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to start with a special thank you for all of you who have given generously where the Kilimanjaro project and we see hope.
0:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Raising money for rescuing homeless kids in Africa.
0:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for caring for your fellow human around the globe.
0:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to go on about it.
0:40
[SPEAKER_03]: If you don't know what I'm talking about, then there's a special announcement episode.
0:45
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's entitled Special Enouncement, Coleman Jarrow for We See Hope.
0:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Go back and listen to that.
0:50
[SPEAKER_03]: It's only a few minutes long.
0:53
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you'll know what we're talking about, but thank you everybody for participating in this.
0:57
[SPEAKER_03]: And thank you so very much for all that you do to help keep the Adventure Sports podcast going and growing.
1:04
[SPEAKER_03]: If you like this episode, please do share it with a friend.
1:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Some of you think maybe interested?
1:10
[SPEAKER_03]: No big announcements today, so let's just dive right on in to the interview.
1:15
[SPEAKER_03]: My friends, today we have Trevor Thompson with us, and I say Trevor Thompson because I just interviewed another Thompson about an hour ago, Trevor.
1:24
[SPEAKER_03]: That's so.
1:24
[SPEAKER_03]: We're everywhere.
1:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the Thompson's are taking over.
1:28
[SPEAKER_03]: He is joining us from Salt Lake City, and he's an adventure sport enthusiast.
1:32
[SPEAKER_03]: His sports include a lot of backcountry, alpine touring, skiing, and in the summertime,
1:44
[SPEAKER_03]: really interested in an ecologically sound adventure and sustainable land and animal use.
1:52
[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of a different subject for the Adventure Sports Podcast.
1:55
[SPEAKER_03]: As you know, we almost never talk about hunting on the Adventure Sports Podcast.
1:59
[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to talk a little bit about that today how it can be done in a way that helps the environment, that helps the ecosystem and is sustainable.
2:10
[SPEAKER_03]: and actually how it can be important just to take care of the natural resources that we have.
2:16
[SPEAKER_03]: So, Trevor, welcome to the program.
2:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me on and let's get into it and talk about all these different weird things that I do.
2:25
[SPEAKER_03]: well there's quite a lot of stuff here you're a bow hunter and i think we should point that out we're not going to talk a lot about hunting but we made the distinction before we hit record between bow hunting and rifle hunting and i'm not going to discriminate against hunting or either form of hunting but bow hunting is unique so why do you bow hunt so i spent nine years of steel teams and i didn't grow up in a hunting environment or family i'm from Los Angeles
2:52
[SPEAKER_01]: and so I didn't quite understand the draw and probably for the same reason most people think as well as most listeners which is oh it's a rifle you don't give the animal quote chance now having done it for years now I understand that whether rifle doesn't necessarily mean you're giving them a chance it can still be very difficult and
3:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was introduced to bow hunting and I really got the idea of, oh, this is fair play and this is a chance for the animal, not really understanding what I was getting myself into, which is it's exceptionally difficult and now many years later I make my own bows make arrows and I'm in love with the
3:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Connection to human past that it gives me as well as I've had many dozens of interactions with animals inside of ten feet Which a lot of people aren't able to ever experience and those are even animals that I'm not specifically hunting But due to the nature of bow hunting you're being quiet
3:50
[SPEAKER_01]: and I had a loan.
3:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been within touching distance to moose and bears and deer and elk a number of times.
3:58
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a very special connection to the environment that we all participate in.
4:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
4:06
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I've had some close distance encounters with animals too, but I was never hunting them at the time.
4:14
[SPEAKER_03]: I was just out in nature.
4:16
[SPEAKER_03]: But there's something about that that is really unique.
4:20
[SPEAKER_03]: You can go places where the animals just don't interact with humans much.
4:24
[SPEAKER_03]: They're not be sensitized or habituated might be the right word.
4:28
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that that helps, as far as encountering animals, I don't think approaching animals to see how close you can get a good idea, you know?
4:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't either, I think it's unfair and they didn't choose it.
4:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, and you're harassing them at that point.
4:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
4:43
[SPEAKER_03]: But I've had interactions where they've come to me and it's a magical moment.
4:48
[SPEAKER_03]: It really is.
4:49
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, some people call it a good medicine moment.
4:52
[SPEAKER_03]: And you just mentioned the idea of connecting with what humans were in the past.
4:58
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm not going to claim to be any sort of an expert
5:02
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a sense that people who lived in nature full-time and relied on nature for hunting and gathering understood it in a way that we have a hard time understanding it today, and they had ways to interpret their experiences that in our mind we might say, well that doesn't sound like empirical science, but it was meaningful to their culture and their approach to encountering
5:29
[SPEAKER_03]: and it's kind of fascinating when you look at it and you're like what they could do things that most people today can't.
5:38
[SPEAKER_03]: So can you lean into that?
5:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Tell us what we're talking about here?
5:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, people talk about a sixth sense or a feeling and I can give the stories of mountain bikers or hikers that are out and they feel like they're being watched and then they turn around
5:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, or a bobcat or a coyote or a deer, or there's something there, right?
6:02
[SPEAKER_01]: There's there's some energy interaction that's going on whatever the the non-scientific physics word that you want to associate that with.
6:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It's occurring.
6:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And for me, when I'm out with basically a stick in a string and I'm trying to pursue an animal in order to kill it, to eat it,
6:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Looking at those animals and looking into their eyes or feeling them there out in front of me and hearing them breathing and eating and walking.
6:35
[SPEAKER_01]: You are part of the environment in a way that touches this genetic background that is very difficult to describe but is possible for anybody to experience.
6:48
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I'm going to tell a funny story related to this peripherally.
6:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
6:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
6:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Trevor.
6:55
[SPEAKER_03]: But Travis was the co-host that founded the Adventure Sports podcast with me 10 years ago.
7:03
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're buddies, of course.
7:04
[SPEAKER_03]: And one day we went to a baseball game, a Rockies game in Denver.
7:08
[SPEAKER_03]: And I told him I said, you know, I can make people turn around and look at me.
7:11
[SPEAKER_03]: And he's just got to give him a hard time.
7:13
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and he's like, no, you can't.
7:14
[SPEAKER_03]: That's you.
7:15
[SPEAKER_03]: You know,
7:16
[SPEAKER_03]: And we were kind of laughing about it and I said, okay, so I saw a lady that was leaning against a post.
7:22
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, you know, some sort of a pole or something about 150 yards away.
7:26
[SPEAKER_03]: But because of where she was, it's okay, that one right there, you see her?
7:29
[SPEAKER_03]: And I started just daring at the back of her head, and she turned around and locked eyes with me within three seconds.
7:36
[SPEAKER_03]: and it blew Travis's mind and he says that didn't happen, you know, and but it did and I think that other people have experienced that and often you're the one who turns around and sees that someone else is looking at you.
7:46
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's not special.
7:48
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not.
7:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think for specifically traditional bow hunters and I say traditional meaning long bows recurves to constrain, you know, think Robin Hood if you're thinking about it and you've never seen a bow that I'm describing.
8:05
[SPEAKER_01]: at the face of animals.
8:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I look at their ears, I look at their neck, so if something is looking in my direction, I look away or down or cover my eyes, because I really feel like that's a real thing that if they're looking at you and you're staring back if you're locked eyes with something, you're so busted, it is you are not going to be doing anything that that thing doesn't see you doing.
8:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Regardless of if you're trying to hunt it or not, right?
8:32
[SPEAKER_03]: if you look away then it's it thinks you're not interested.
8:35
[SPEAKER_03]: I was in the holy cross wilderness camping backpacking and I was playing around in the woods and I came across a milder and this doe saw me and ran up the mountain and I thought okay well here's a chance for me to see if I could actually approach not get close but approach the deer without it seeing me.
8:57
[SPEAKER_03]: because you know we didn't have line of sight and so I'm trying to be so stealthy I'm trying to be so perfectly quiet trying to only move with the sounds of nature and all the things and then I look up and she's standing behind a tree where their head wrapped around the tree watching me the whole time yeah and I just thought okay you went
9:16
[SPEAKER_03]: And she was still, you know, 100 feet away, and I just thought this is hilarious.
9:20
[SPEAKER_03]: They know, uh, I don't know how many times people have said, oh, wow, how often do you see mountain lions?
9:26
[SPEAKER_03]: And I say, well, almost never, but they see me all the time, you know, that's sort of the thing.
9:32
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just fascinating the way that it works.
9:35
[SPEAKER_03]: One other story, and I'm going to ask you to explain it, okay?
9:38
[SPEAKER_03]: I have a son who is just kind of very, very aware.
9:43
[SPEAKER_03]: He's got his feelers out.
9:45
[SPEAKER_03]: and he sees right through people.
9:47
[SPEAKER_03]: You're not going to pull an over on him, right?
9:50
[SPEAKER_03]: I have another son who's very focused on whatever he's doing at the time.
9:55
[SPEAKER_03]: He's just a hyper-focused at one thing at a time.
9:58
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we were out hiking and I was in front and I on purpose I sped up and I got out of eyesight and then I stepped off the trail but I didn't hide.
10:07
[SPEAKER_03]: I just do a kind of in plain
10:15
[SPEAKER_03]: right and my hyper focus on went by first and he was focused on the trail or he's big in the insects and other things you know he may have but whatever it was he walked right by me I could reach out and tapped him on the shoulder you know but he'd never saw me and then my other son who always has his feelers out um he didn't even get close to me because what are you doing dad so i don't know what there is about that but there appears to be something
10:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I totally agree and I've seen I've been out with people that I have subsequently not hunted with, again, that essentially walk by everything and then I've been out with people that walk what somebody might describe as too slow.
10:59
[SPEAKER_01]: and they miss nothing.
11:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you watch animals, they miss nothing.
11:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
11:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And their life depends on it.
11:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we are now, we're so engrossed in efficiency and the right now, and I have to see it in front of me that we have, as a species, essentially quit feeling what's around us, because we want the satisfaction or the information immediately.
11:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It's unfortunate because there's a lot to see, feel, touch, smell, and taste.
11:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, in the reason that I'm diving into this a little bit is because I believe that you can connect with nature on a level that is so much deeper than a lot of people do.
11:42
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's something you can learn to do.
11:45
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it also is something that is almost a personality type.
11:48
[SPEAKER_03]: I always some people just appear to naturally slip into that.
11:51
[SPEAKER_03]: But I've seen people that almost seem nothing in the woods.
11:55
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I've seen other people that I'm amazed at what they see that I miss, you know, and I've practiced this stuff for decades and decades.
12:03
[SPEAKER_03]: And for me, it's not a matter of hunting, for me, it's a matter of connecting, experiencing on a deeper level.
12:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, whether the listeners out there are hunters or not, it's irrelevant.
12:16
[SPEAKER_03]: This is about how you can encounter nature in a fulfilling, more satisfying, enriched way.
12:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
12:22
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what I think.
12:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
12:26
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a small story that I remember that I tell people, or I've recounted, that there were some researchers that met with some Kalahari Bushman, and that's kind of in Northwestern South Africa, is where they live, and these researchers encountered them, and the Kalahari laughed when the researchers said, hey, I know we can't hear the stars sing.
12:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And then after they quit laughing and realized that the researchers were telling the truth, they were sad for them because they couldn't hear the stars sing.
12:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, they weren't necessarily saying that they could literally hear songs, but who's to say that they aren't literally hearing songs from the stars.
13:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And those are people that live as part of the environment, not on the environment.
13:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's the dichotomy that most people, especially in Western environments, are dealing with.
13:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
13:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Stars.
13:21
[SPEAKER_03]: So I know a few constellations.
13:23
[SPEAKER_03]: I like to look at the night sky.
13:25
[SPEAKER_03]: I celebrate the the majesty of of the heavens.
13:29
[SPEAKER_03]: I just blows my mind it blows my mind more than I can even express whenever you think about what all of that means and what's behind it.
13:36
[SPEAKER_03]: But learning a few of the constellations is really nice because I know where Polaris is and that keeps me from getting lost at least if it's not too cloudy and you know that sort of thing So there's value in just being aware, but so many times people come to visit and we live in a place where you can see this guy But they may be coming from a town or a city where the light pollution just makes it really really difficult
13:59
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't know the simplest of the connections with it.
14:02
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's kind of like when you see a car, you know what a car is.
14:05
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a car.
14:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I see it everywhere.
14:07
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a car that's like walked out to bicycle that's a house.
14:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Some people know the disguise that way.
14:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Trevor.
14:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
14:14
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and I think well, why don't we?
14:17
[SPEAKER_03]: But okay, that's a whole other subject.
14:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's get into it a little bit.
14:22
[SPEAKER_03]: You are an AT backcountry skier.
14:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Now explain what that means.
14:26
[SPEAKER_03]: What is AT first of all?
14:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's Alpine touring and what that is is that's a system of skis and ski bindings that
14:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a few hundred years old and now it's exceptionally efficient and what we use now are pinto bindings which it's two pins that hold the toe of your boot to the front of your binding.
14:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you lock in the heel once you're finished going uphill and that way you can then
14:54
[SPEAKER_01]: descend as if you're in an alpine binding.
14:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Not quite as secure, but pretty close with modern bindings.
15:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And for those of us that enjoy steep and deep and don't like rules, then...
15:10
[SPEAKER_01]: A.T. skiing seems to be the ticket.
15:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also very fitness oriented and a lot of the guys and gals that you see up there are.
15:20
[SPEAKER_01]: During the summer and shoulder seasons, they're mountain biking, they're hiking, they're rock climbing, they do all the other outdoorsy sports and they're very fit people.
15:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's people that like to engross themselves in nature, in the environment.
15:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And enjoy a little bit of risk reward.
15:39
[SPEAKER_01]: There's there can be high risk when you're in the backcountry.
15:43
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that there is incredible reward to working for that kind of a ski run.
15:50
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I've talked a lot about this on the show and past episodes, and I always point out the avalanche danger, because it's worse than people think, at least it is where we are.
16:01
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's no joke.
16:02
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I tell people, get your avalanche training before you start going in the back country.
16:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
16:08
[SPEAKER_03]: But then don't rely on it.
16:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and we always say you got to go to know and those of us that are out all the time take the same amount of risk as everybody else, but at least we know all of the micro terrain and all of the different aspects and what the snow may or may not be doing as opposed to just reading an avalanche report and having training.
16:32
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got to know by going and by touching the snow every single day.
16:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's no real replacement for experience and time on the surface.
16:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
16:44
[SPEAKER_01]: But, well, doing that puts you in danger.
16:47
[SPEAKER_03]: It's, I think that's absolutely critical, and you're in Utah.
16:51
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how familiar you are with where we are, but the avi course here says that Colorado has the highest avalanche danger in the world, and then they added, and this valley has the highest avalanche danger in Colorado.
17:06
[SPEAKER_03]: So we live in a place where when I'm driving down the highway, one of the things that we do in the winter
17:14
[SPEAKER_03]: That's like, well, I wonder how many Aggies we're going to see today, and especially after a big storm, you know, you just say, well, one, two, I mean, we've counted 11, 12, and just a two mile stretch, you know, it's the real deal, and it's way more dangerous than some people understand.
17:30
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm just gonna drop it there, get your avi training, and don't rely on it.
17:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And you can enjoy the backcountry, but it is possible to do backcountry skiing without taking hardly any risk.
17:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it is.
17:42
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.
17:43
[SPEAKER_03]: It can increase your risk a little at a time, depending on your comfort level and what you think is necessary.
17:48
[SPEAKER_03]: But I will say this, if you see that beautiful coular going down through the forest, and you're like,
17:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I'm going to dive in.
17:57
[SPEAKER_03]: That is an avalancheute, and don't, don't answer the sirens call of that powder.
18:04
[SPEAKER_03]: You need to know a little bit more than that.
18:06
[SPEAKER_03]: So what do you, uh, what kind of gear do you use ski-wise when you're doing your AT skiing?
18:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all conditional, so a skiing is very much like surfing.
18:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So I have five pairs of skis and they all have backcountry bindings, regardless of if I'm going to be using them in a resort ever.
18:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Just everything has backcountry bindings because I like everything from my 98 underfoot to my 122s underfoot.
18:35
[SPEAKER_01]: and being in the wash hatch, we have that mythical champagne powder, but we really do.
18:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I have skewed days, we're on 120 under foot, I'm at knee deep.
18:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a real thing and you have air density snow.
18:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I tend to like kind of medium-light skees and medium-light boots, but nothing too light because occasionally we do get tougher packed days or breakable crust.
19:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm usually on a 110-01-20 and something with a twin tip.
19:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And I like skiing steep and deep.
19:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So, fast.
19:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, when you say 98 underfoot or 120 underfoot, what are you talking about?
19:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Just so people understand.
19:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So what I'm talking about is under the midfoot of the ski.
19:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So about the middle of the ski ish.
19:27
[SPEAKER_01]: It's 120 millimeters.
19:29
[SPEAKER_01]: 120 plus is what would easily be considered a powder board.
19:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a powder ski for sure, right?
19:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Now in other places that might seem an unmanned vegetable ridiculous ski, but in the wash hatch that's a powder ski.
19:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And now in some places 100 underfoot, 100 millimeters under your actual foot might be a powder ski.
19:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It just really depends on what type of snow you're on top of.
19:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, for God's sake, the first nation's people that are, you know, and the Eskimo, they had a thousand different words for snow.
20:01
[SPEAKER_01]: That's because there's thousands of different kinds of snow.
20:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
20:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So depending on where you are, what time of day it is, even what temperature it is, may determine what kind of skew you use.
20:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I have five or six pairs of skewers in like a garage.
20:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, and for people that are new to this, when you ski a wide ski, think about your foot being mounted in the middle of it, and the wider it gets, you actually kind of have to come up to get on the ski edge to make a turn.
20:29
[SPEAKER_03]: And so they get cumbersome on hard packs, no.
20:33
[SPEAKER_03]: But you have to work hard to get on edge to make your turns.
20:35
[SPEAKER_03]: They're a little bit sloppy, but as soon as you get in the powder, it's magic.
20:42
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like surfing.
20:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, and if you're skiing the resort quarterly, you know, then a more narrow ski makes it way easier to get on edge and make your turns and enjoy yourself without having to fight it.
20:53
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's where we're talking about the width of the ski.
20:55
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what this is about, right?
20:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, powder skis are so crazy that
21:00
[SPEAKER_01]: It can come to a point where a lot of us won't edge our skis, like we'll deeper them on purpose so that we get less edging on, uh, on counter.
21:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want anything to get in the way of my float.
21:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
21:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow, that's fun.
21:16
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, when I started backcountry skiing was the first time I got into really good powder.
21:22
[SPEAKER_03]: I've been skiing for decades and decades, but when I got into backcountry skiing, it's like, oh, this is where they hide it.
21:29
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the truth.
21:30
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and there's, man, there is nothing.
21:32
[SPEAKER_01]: You're getting me excited for the season.
21:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, and we've already had a couple little snowstorms up here, but there's really nothing quite like going 35, 40 miles an hour down a 43 degree, you know, 100 meter wide shoot on big skis.
21:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there really isn't quite anything like that.
21:49
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to throw the caveat on it in there though.
21:53
[SPEAKER_03]: What you just described is what a lot of people would say don't do because that's where you're going to get buried alive and so did it.
22:03
[SPEAKER_03]: What's the critical angle that you I guess are aware of that you use?
22:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So, um, I mean, well, it's very much temperature and snowpack dependent, um, as well as aspects, but the general rule being 30 to 35 is about where things can start to slide and then upwards up to that.
22:24
[SPEAKER_01]: 43-44 is that that's kind of like the red zone like in that range where things will want to slide but the snow can accumulate above and beyond that steeper things which aren't super common regardless of what people say.
22:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Most people who say I've skewed 47 are full of it unless they live in Alaska or Shemani it's just they just don't occur in North America that much.
22:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Beyond that, the snow doesn't accumulate that much and or those aspects are in areas that you're really going to have more hard pack.
22:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And then below that, there really is a very low chance of the correct kind of snow accumulating to then slide.
23:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So in that range, that there are low 30s to low 40s is kind of the scary red zone.
23:08
[SPEAKER_01]: That's also where the most fun skiing is.
23:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Angle ice.
23:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:13
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you're out a lot and you're skiing a lot and you're, you know, you're punching with your poles as you're going uphill and you're digging pits, you can do that in a relatively controlled mitigated manner.
23:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to say safe because regardless of what you're doing, you're training your experience or what the pit says, you can hit a spot on a ski slope that you did not have the ability to test and that can still slide.
23:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for saying that.
23:43
[SPEAKER_01]: or I was out on a day with my buddy, my constant ski partner, he and I ski together a lot.
23:49
[SPEAKER_01]: That's something else that is good to have is a person that you ski with quite a bit if you're in the backcountry.
23:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And we are out on a day that we've been skiing that whole week.
23:57
[SPEAKER_01]: The
23:58
[SPEAKER_01]: that the diamond said it was green, you know, so we're good to go.
24:02
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what you would say the training says.
24:04
[SPEAKER_01]: There wasn't new snowfall, it wasn't warming, we were out before dawn.
24:08
[SPEAKER_01]: All of the rarest, horrific said, yes, you're good.
24:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, guess what?
24:13
[SPEAKER_01]: A...
24:13
[SPEAKER_01]: a serac or a cornice way up high on top of the shoot broke and we got a sluff slide that hit us.
24:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It was through, quote, no fault of our own.
24:23
[SPEAKER_01]: The only way that we could have avoided it was not being there.
24:26
[SPEAKER_01]: But we were in avalanche terrain.
24:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So guess what?
24:28
[SPEAKER_01]: You are running the possibility of that happening.
24:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I'm not going to spend much more time on this, but here in
24:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, here too.
24:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, in the last stage, we, at least one or two a year that, um, they get caught.
24:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and I'm not going to say, they'll be the most experienced as well.
24:46
[SPEAKER_01]: They almost exclusively, and reason being to get into avalanche terrain at a time that there is avalanche danger, especially with how well the reporting is done now.
24:57
[SPEAKER_01]: and how well they are able to predict the avalanche danger.
25:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Most people that are in the brand new range that could get caught up, they just won't go.
25:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I think God, because there would be a tremendous amount of people caught in...
25:13
[SPEAKER_01]: small the medium slides, I think.
25:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, don't get cocky people.
25:17
[SPEAKER_03]: That's one of the more of that story too.
25:19
[SPEAKER_03]: But I will say this as well, Trevor.
25:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I ski it below critical angle just because I'm like, I don't want to go there.
25:26
[SPEAKER_03]: And I get all of the exercise of the climb.
25:28
[SPEAKER_03]: I get all the connection with nature, all the beautiful scenery, you know, the perfect blue skies, as your blue skies, the
25:41
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's so fresh.
25:43
[SPEAKER_03]: It almost burns and you can smell the difference.
25:46
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so amazing.
25:48
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I'm sure you've experienced this when the sun's at just the right angle and every snow crystal is a prism.
25:55
[SPEAKER_03]: And you see infinite prisms just.
25:57
[SPEAKER_03]: all the colors of the rainbow are just splashing against your face and it's like what on earth?
26:03
[SPEAKER_03]: This is not possible.
26:04
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so magical.
26:05
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so amazing.
26:06
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I do a fair amount of that.
26:09
[SPEAKER_03]: I really, really love just the climb.
26:11
[SPEAKER_03]: And then on the way down, you know, we ski below critical angle.
26:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Which means you have to kind of point your tips down and go straight and try to get enough speed up to make a few good turns.
26:23
[SPEAKER_03]: But we enjoy that a lot anyway.
26:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, it's very, very enjoyable.
26:28
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't have to go above critical angle to have a remarkable, remarkable time.
26:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and most people, I'd say the bulk of backcountry skiers ski in the fun zone, which is that low 30 and below angle range, because they're out to have fun.
26:46
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not that common.
26:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I just happen to be in the anomalous group that likes to ski coolers, like we chase them.
26:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's just part of our thing.
26:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's since we're, uh, since we're starting to nail your personality a little bit.
27:03
[SPEAKER_03]: What is your summer sport?
27:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Wingsuit-based jumping.
27:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there you have it folks.
27:09
[SPEAKER_03]: So Wingsuit based jumping is arguably about the most dangerous adventure sport this year.
27:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Statistically, it is the most dangerous sport currently.
27:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, I don't know who was maybe outside magazine or somebody in that sort of range did a statistical study on it and they rank them all.
27:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it was 140 was the fatality number for Wingsuit-based jumping, which I can agree with.
27:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the last five or so years, there's been 25 or 30 fatalities every year in base jumping, the bulk of which say 22 or 23 have been in a Wingsuit or in a terminal velocity kind of set up.
27:59
[SPEAKER_01]: and that's an esport that might have at a maximum every year, a couple thousand participants.
28:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, as opposed to say, back under skiing, which has tens of thousands.
28:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, sure.
28:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, we've all seen the clips.
28:14
[SPEAKER_03]: We've seen someone flying through the air, like a flying squirrel, literally going very, very fast.
28:20
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you can control your speed somewhat, but your near terminal velocity in your forward motion or your angle motion of some, you know, it's, we're talking about really, really, really fast.
28:32
[SPEAKER_01]: routinely 200 kilometers an hour forward speed.
28:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and you a twitch you're your hand a little bit.
28:41
[SPEAKER_01]: You change your It's it takes very little motion to to kind of move around like that.
28:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm
28:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And actually, I could, I could relate it to if you've heard people talk about skiing, very, very, very steep things, or driving a race car.
29:00
[SPEAKER_01]: The tiniest interaction with the equipment will cause major changes in direction.
29:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that those things add up to be, while this is super specialized.
29:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and just like back at your skiing or our bow hunting, modern equipment and digital space has given a lot of access and ease of entry to the equipment for people that have shortcut the process.
29:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And in most of these sports fitness ends up being
29:35
[SPEAKER_01]: causes those people that shortcut the process to avoid disaster.
29:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And in base jumping, it doesn't, which is unfortunate.
29:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, I've been at it for 16 years.
29:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And most people that base jump or wing suit base jump don't do it for more than three years.
29:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason being they either get hurt, find out it's, it really is that dangerous, and it really can happen to them, or they watch a fatality, or they have a friend that dies.
30:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I've probably had 35 or 40 people that I know, die based on things.
30:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been, I've long since gone through the mental process of this is just what it's like.
30:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wish there was a way to impress that upon more people getting into this activity.
30:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not really a sport.
30:22
[SPEAKER_01]: but there isn't.
30:24
[SPEAKER_01]: People are going to do it.
30:25
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no regulating body and there's really no avoiding.
30:29
[SPEAKER_01]: They're shortcutting.
30:31
[SPEAKER_01]: They're used to be 15 to almost 20 years ago.
30:34
[SPEAKER_01]: You would get asked.
30:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, who's your mentor?
30:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Who are you learning from?
30:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Where did you decide to get into this?
30:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just not the way anymore.
30:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all about cash-driven businesses.
30:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It's
30:51
[SPEAKER_01]: the slow march time with with any sport like that.
30:55
[SPEAKER_01]: That that doesn't really shed a good light on it.
30:58
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't shed a good light on the macro, you know, say bird's eye view of it.
31:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But each individual's participation is up to them and it's it's not any different than
31:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Backcountry skiing or rac climbing or driving a fast car, you know, all of those things are determined by Here's a dollar giving me what a dollar's worth and gear, right?
31:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it's up to each individual to then mitigate the danger and
31:28
[SPEAKER_01]: go about that activity or sport in a way that honors what it is, as well as respecting the people that are trying to participate in it alongside them, whether you like them or not.
31:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to do some stereotyping on purpose, okay?
31:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Go for it.
31:43
[SPEAKER_03]: people live not done these things they try to figure out why would you do it if it's so dangerous and here's the stereotype part I don't think it's obvious that the guy that will speed suit off of a cliff is also the guy that believes in feeling nature in depth you know ultra sensitive plugged in
32:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Those two things are kind of juxtaposed in most people's stereotypes I would say.
32:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Speak to that.
32:13
[SPEAKER_03]: How are you the one guy that likes both extremes?
32:16
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm not.
32:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'd say it's the great, it's the great civ, right?
32:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Anybody that wants to participate in these things wants to touch something that they are in our modern world.
32:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So
32:29
[SPEAKER_01]: bumper from touching.
32:31
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, these are the kinds of people that are still feeling a desire for something beyond their computer, their phone, their car, rubber under their feet.
32:43
[SPEAKER_01]: They want skin on dirt.
32:46
[SPEAKER_01]: They want wind on their face, they want to feel what cold feels like.
32:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there is a at length process that gets them to wear extreme sports, which is what these all are.
33:00
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, a backcountry skiing is qualified as an extreme sport.
33:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was based jumping, paragliding, speed flying, wingsuit based jumping, ice climbing.
33:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And most of these things I've done are participated in for more than a decade.
33:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I see with people that are participating for 5, 10, 15 years, which you can see with, say, rock climbers when they're interviewed.
33:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And I use them as an example because there's lots of interviews with guys like, uh,
33:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Timionial or Alex Hanolder, Seth Davis, they almost come across like hippies because you hear them talk about a connection to the environment, a connection to the rock and it's not just a survival mechanism, it's an understanding that when you get beyond the ocean, that's brick and cool and you've done that so many times, right?
33:49
[SPEAKER_01]: You realize it's not about that.
33:51
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about the
33:56
[SPEAKER_01]: need to know that this is a choice I'm making.
34:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Not a thing I'm doing for an external validation.
34:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody sticks around in any of these activities for external validation.
34:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you listen to guys and women do these things,
34:14
[SPEAKER_01]: at a high level, at a dangerous level that continue doing it, you know, skiers of surfers say like Larry Hamilton, right?
34:23
[SPEAKER_01]: They do it because they want it.
34:26
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll get up and do it if there were no cameras.
34:29
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll get up and do it if it's okay conditions, not fantastic.
34:33
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll get up and do it because that's part of what makes up
34:38
[SPEAKER_01]: that the thing that keeps their heart pumping every day.
34:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And they go about their normal life in a similar fashion.
34:47
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of these people are goofy and strange with some of their other habits.
34:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, oh, I want my coffee this way, or man, I like this kind of shoe.
34:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just an interesting type of personality that deeply wants to be part of these extreme sports.
35:09
[SPEAKER_01]: and the initiates make up the bulk of these sports.
35:13
[SPEAKER_01]: They also make up the bulk of the revenue stream for all the companies that drive these sports.
35:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know many people at the top end of skiing, surfing, big wave surfing, climbing, rock climbing, ice climbing, wingsuit base jumping, because I've participated around them in parallel or I'm very good friends with a lot of these people at the top of these sports.
35:39
[SPEAKER_01]: some form of the best way to put it is like an eco hippie weirdo, you know, like it's it's very difficult to put a name to it, but they are all these touch-the-earth type people.
35:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that is the thing that is most surprising when they're met by inner viewers or people that have never participated in those things.
36:01
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, man, you're really like very grounded.
36:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, no shit, so keeps me alive.
36:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Here's an exercise that maybe are wondering what we're talking about.
36:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Touch a tree and you can invite the kind of experience we're going to have with the tree.
36:15
[SPEAKER_03]: And most people I think, maybe I shouldn't over-generalize, but often people will touch a tree and they're touching a piece of wood.
36:22
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a piece of bark.
36:23
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a thing that's standing right there.
36:25
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, okay, I touched a tree, why don't we watch a big deal?
36:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Some people even make fun of people who go beyond that.
36:30
[SPEAKER_03]: But if you touch the tree, and you think about that tree is a living thing.
36:34
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like the first step.
36:35
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, oh, wait a minute, I'm alive.
36:38
[SPEAKER_03]: It's alive.
36:38
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you say, dang, it's older than I am.
36:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
36:43
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you touch the tree and you're like, it's been in the same place all those years.
36:50
[SPEAKER_03]: And trees don't have eyes, but they do have senses.
36:52
[SPEAKER_03]: It's been proven.
36:53
[SPEAKER_03]: They experienced the environment in a tree sort of a way and you realize I am touching a tree that is stood here and been sensitive to this environment for a hundred years.
37:05
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a different experience, Trevor.
37:07
[SPEAKER_03]: They're walking up and saying, I don't speak smooth, I put my hand on it.
37:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
37:11
[SPEAKER_03]: And you invite the experience.
37:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Part of that is that people might say, well, it's just your imagination, or someone else might say, no, you really are inviting a connection.
37:19
[SPEAKER_03]: And we can easily harden ourselves to the point that we don't notice anymore.
37:23
[SPEAKER_03]: So that might sound hippy to be to some people, but when you get in, I've done the same thing with rock, you know, rock climbing, you know, you touch stone, and it, you could say, well, it's not a living thing.
37:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Some people might argue about that even, but you can still think about deep time, the forces that formed it, what allowed it to be exposed so I can see it, what it's gone through and how all of those things working together make our lives even possible here on planet Earth.
37:53
[SPEAKER_01]: you can invite the experience and I think it's enriching to do so right and what's the loss like where for people that for anybody that feels that they need to assign a a loss gain or transaction to that experience show me the obverse like show me the why don't you do it
38:14
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're confused about the why, show me why not.
38:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And if the why not is such a stronger reason, then don't do it.
38:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't think I'll be able to encounter somebody that, if I tell them, like, hey, come over here.
38:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this, this cedar, like I was just an Oregon, chasing elk around for a month.
38:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And like there's some cedar trees out there that are 400 years old.
38:35
[SPEAKER_01]: They're much older than the United States.
38:37
[SPEAKER_01]: There's been people passing by, there's been people passing by them for centuries, people passing by them for centuries.
38:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
38:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And millennia.
38:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's fantastic.
38:46
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a really cool thing that took me what?
38:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Eight seconds to say.
38:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And if we're in that environment, like, eight seconds.
38:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Is eight seconds not worth thinking about that?
38:56
[SPEAKER_01]: This vast, like, this vastness of what this...
38:59
[SPEAKER_01]: living thing has been witnessed too.
39:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And now you get to touch it and think about those things and carry that with you and then be replete with these sorts of experiences the rest of your life.
39:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I show me why that's not at least something interesting to try.
39:16
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I'll add to that.
39:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Another thing that people can do that is super fun.
39:20
[SPEAKER_03]: As you can just scratch the bark a little bit and then smell it.
39:23
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a scratch-in-sniff, right?
39:24
[SPEAKER_03]: And every tree smells different.
39:26
[SPEAKER_03]: A pine tree smells like a pine tree until you smell two or three and realize, oh, they're different pine trees.
39:32
[SPEAKER_03]: They're individuals.
39:33
[SPEAKER_03]: And often you'll find mom and dad, grandma or grandpa with all the kids growing around and they're of the same gene pull they all smell different.
39:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they call that, what's one of them century for us, century trees, these giants, right?
39:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, guess what?
39:52
[SPEAKER_01]: A place that has giants, like giant cedars or giant redwoods, is ripe for other giant redwoods.
39:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So where you find one, you'll find others, and they're all genetically connected.
40:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
40:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a reason that they live there.
40:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, and you start opening up about those kinds of experiences, and those are the things that I think about like when I'm wingsu-based jumping.
40:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just,
40:14
[SPEAKER_01]: in Europe and I was there in Slovenia and I was describing this to a tourist it was asking like why do you do it like and you know what's cool is there's a possible there's a distinct possibility that when I'm flying by a two-meter wide ledge and I'm eight feet above it.
40:30
[SPEAKER_01]: or next to it, that there's no other human being that has looked at that, purely based on the access.
40:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, that doesn't make me, I'm so cool, I'm special.
40:40
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like, man, what a privilege to be given this opportunity at this point in history to fly this thing that's required me to have all of this experience to get to it, to then look at this patch of rock.
40:51
[SPEAKER_01]: or tree or whatever it is, right?
40:54
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, or interact with I-Bex and Shem-Wah as we're walking around in these areas that may or may not have ever seen people.
41:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I think those are the experiences that are the reason so many people participate in extreme sports.
41:08
[SPEAKER_01]: They're choosing to do it.
41:09
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not being forced to participate in any of these activities.
41:14
[SPEAKER_01]: In a world where so much of what we do seems forced or predestined or you can't get away from.
41:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the society certainly has a path for you to follow.
41:26
[SPEAKER_03]: They're glad to put you on those tracks like a train.
41:28
[SPEAKER_03]: You're just going to keep going that way unless you stop and say, wait a minute, what do I want to do with my life?
41:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or what can I do to enrich it?
41:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And by enriching that, you're enriching those around you.
41:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
41:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, you mentioned fitness and that it's, you shouldn't shortcut the fitness because that's what allows you to do things safely.
41:48
[SPEAKER_03]: And to do things that would be very, very difficult to do otherwise.
41:52
[SPEAKER_03]: And you mentioned that you've been working with protect products.
41:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
41:57
[SPEAKER_03]: And I always tell our guests and I'm telling the listeners right now.
42:01
[SPEAKER_03]: This is not an infomercial, right?
42:03
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not what the Adventure Sports podcast is about.
42:10
[SPEAKER_03]: How about this?
42:11
[SPEAKER_03]: How about this?
42:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Help people.
42:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I'm going to get up for three seconds just for anybody that ends up watching this.
42:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
42:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So one moment.
42:19
[SPEAKER_01]: The reason being is I wanted to show what this comes in.
42:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've been working with this company since before I worked for them actually like before I drew a salary.
42:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I was given some of the product and immediately was convinced about the efficacy.
42:35
[SPEAKER_01]: and my background from the SEAL teams to doing some cross-fit-type competitions to hierarchs.
42:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a fitness lunatic.
42:44
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a giant part of how I perform all these other things that I like to do.
42:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is already a liquid.
42:52
[SPEAKER_03]: So for those who don't see it, because most of our listeners are not viewers, it's a tube like a narrow
43:04
[SPEAKER_01]: it's liquid.
43:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So what's in this is very simple.
43:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It's sodium magnesium and potassium.
43:09
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
43:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
43:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Electrolites.
43:11
[SPEAKER_01]: These are the electrolytes you need.
43:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, the key difference to what we do that what everybody else does possibly is there's no powder, right?
43:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And
43:20
[SPEAKER_01]: As a liquid you can drink it straight, but it's a concentrate so we tell people to put it in water and drink it and chase it.
43:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you can drink it and chase it, but you don't necessarily want to, just because it's a strong flavor and strong meaning.
43:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It tastes like mango or it tastes like lemonade.
43:35
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a very strong mango if you drink it straight out of there.
43:39
[SPEAKER_01]: But anything that is a liquid is going to come into your body and be more quickly taken up by your system.
43:49
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to be much more efficient.
43:50
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to require less calories.
43:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to require much less work on your body.
43:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're in a state where I might be cramping or I'm going to cramp, this will get into your system so much easier.
44:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And we don't use any sugar.
44:05
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't use any.
44:06
[SPEAKER_01]: crazy additives and then if you want to like add anything else on top of this we do everything vertically meaning we make manufacturer and source all of it in the US so if people are really dig it into that and they want something that's a made here product then it's made here and that's one of the sweet of things we make
44:26
[SPEAKER_01]: That's our kind of star thing, is hydration, which I've given to skiers, basketball players, football players, golfers, moms, dads, you name the person and everybody loves it because it's a liquid, because it's so easy and it seems to be working for most people.
44:44
[SPEAKER_01]: The other thing that we make that I think is a star is the one thing that everybody has to do in your day, which is sleep.
44:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's the thing that can change everything.
44:54
[SPEAKER_01]: If you get poor sleep, which most people get poor sleep for a host of reasons, I won't even get into.
44:59
[SPEAKER_01]: There are some things you can do to supplement your life that will help you.
45:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of them being, you can take some products GABA, which is spelled GABA, which is a precursor to humans making their own melatonin inside their body, L-theonine, which is something that helps.
45:21
[SPEAKER_01]: calm the body and the nervous system.
45:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we have Valerian root in there, also, which is used in like sleepy time T, so it's a very, very, very low grade.
45:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Make you feel chilled out type of herb.
45:34
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
45:34
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all we have in there.
45:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's no melatonin, you're not taking any exogenous chemical to force you into sleep, so you're going to get the best rest.
45:43
[SPEAKER_01]: You can possibly get because your body's going to go through its normal sleep cycle in a way that is supplemented by those things.
45:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So, a lot of people have trouble getting too sleep because of extra stuff like phones and computers and blue light and not going to sleep at a consistent time.
46:02
[SPEAKER_01]: This product was made and developed by a guy to help people with TBI, so traumatic brain injuries, get good rest, which is something very difficult for people with brain injuries to get.
46:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And Melatonin is a bad thing to give people with brain injuries for a host of reasons, because it's a hormone and because your body's trying to produce it on its own, and your brain's already injured, the GABA, everyone thinks out of balance.
46:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but GABA helps your body produce its own.
46:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So it gets you back on track.
46:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So we think, and I think, that it is a fantastic thing for people to be taking.
46:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's non-habit forming.
46:40
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not changing your hormones.
46:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Give it a try.
46:43
[SPEAKER_01]: What's your sleep worth?
46:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you think your sleep is worth anything more than a dollar and change, our stuff is about that persevering.
46:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Most people are willing to spend five or ten bucks a day on coffee.
46:56
[SPEAKER_03]: which might not be contributing to the sleep in a positive way.
47:00
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to say it's bad, but yeah.
47:03
[SPEAKER_03]: It depends on a lot of factors, obviously.
47:06
[SPEAKER_03]: So what you're talking about is protect products.
47:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And I went to the website.
47:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Cool.
47:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I see a lot of outdoors people doing outdoorsy things.
47:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was founded by
47:19
[SPEAKER_01]: A couple of guys that are Navy veterans, and Mark Heely, who is a professional big wave surfer.
47:25
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a very good friend of mine, and Mark is a full-blown, super hippie man.
47:31
[SPEAKER_01]: He will not put anything in his body that isn't a performance add-on.
47:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that guy competes at the highest level for a big wave surfer, and he's in a sport that can kill you.
47:42
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're not paying attention.
47:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And so for him, it matters.
47:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Same thing for all of us that do all these other extreme sports that participate with the company.
47:50
[SPEAKER_01]: We're doing things that, man, if it's not a value add, I don't want it.
47:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the guys that help...
47:57
[SPEAKER_01]: that also found the company at 10 and Andrew, they're Navy Vats, and they're smart.
48:01
[SPEAKER_01]: They were officers, they had their stuff together, and they wanted things that filled a gap in the environment that they saw for supplements, which is liquid, most supplements are powder, and your body can't pull powder out of solution.
48:15
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why it's something that necessarily isn't very efficient.
48:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's also very difficult to keep things in solution.
48:23
[SPEAKER_01]: liquid, which is why nobody does it.
48:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It's expensive.
48:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It's tough.
48:27
[SPEAKER_01]: It took us years to get it there.
48:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, hey, let me just for fun.
48:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to throw in an example of this.
48:33
[SPEAKER_03]: I like to have a morning drink.
48:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't do coffee, but I like to have a hot morning drink, and I like to sweeten it a little bit.
48:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, if you put sugar in your tea, you see it on the bottom of the glass and you're stirring and stirring and stirring and blah, blah, blah,
48:49
[SPEAKER_03]: What I started doing years ago is pure maple syrup and I use just a little bit lower glycemic index and it's instantly in solution because it's not a solid it's liquid right and it's already in solution when I put it in there all I'm doing is diluting the solution it I like the convenience of it frankly and I'm not trying to sell your product I've never tried your product I'm just saying it's cool idea how you do that so why not?
49:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Precisely and I mean you think like our bodies are mostly liquid anyways, right?
49:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And if people are talking cost benefit, if it's a powder and you can't get an solution by putting it in a blender and it still comes out of solution and it's a powder which they all will try it, just let something sit for 30 minutes.
49:31
[SPEAKER_01]: after you've put it through a blender, where do you think that's going once it's in your body?
49:37
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going through your GI tract and you're going to expel it, right?
49:41
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to get rid of it somehow.
49:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Your body is not going to uptake that.
49:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're spending money on that, that money is going literally down the toilet.
49:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
49:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, we haven't even gotten into this yet, but let's, we're running out of time, but I want to close out the program by having a brief discussion about sustainable adventure, about ecologically responsible adventure.
50:07
[SPEAKER_03]: That was something that you said would matter to a lot to you.
50:10
[SPEAKER_03]: So, yeah, talk to us about that.
50:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I do my best to do all my own repair work, I know how to sew, so I try and repair all of my own clothes, I try and purchase locally, purchase used if I can, and if I don't, I do not use things for one season.
50:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll use them until they are absolutely smoked.
50:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm also the type of person that I will save money to buy the more expensive longer lasting thing because guess what?
50:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Man, if a ski costs X right and it only lasts me two seasons, but another ski costs four X and last be ten seasons I'd rather have that four X cost ski last me ten than the other one last me two or three because it
50:59
[SPEAKER_01]: requires the same amount of cost at chemicals to make the damn skis, regardless of what they cost.
51:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
51:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, there are a few niche brands that make some very specific green skis.
51:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are also ultra expensive because those products are difficult to make.
51:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And then with hunting, I do the best I can to be the lowest footprint on the environment possible.
51:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Walking as possible, I try and be as sensitive to the environment as I can be.
51:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I try and talk about it to people.
51:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think for somebody in a position where I am where I have a little bit of a platform, I just need to make sure that I'm being thoughtful about the products I'm using, the activities I'm doing, and then talk about why our actions can matter.
51:51
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, everybody might be thinking this dark version of
51:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Man, it really doesn't matter, like so screw it, like I'll just do whatever I want.
52:01
[SPEAKER_01]: But every drop in the ocean matters, you know?
52:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So, something like using a Yeti, right, or a metal cup instead of plastic cups.
52:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
52:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Eventually those things matter.
52:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, purchasing a more expensive shirt from a sustainable company matters, you know.
52:27
[SPEAKER_01]: part of your entire life.
52:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, years down the line likely end up putting you in a position where you're saying, you know?
52:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I did do the right thing because now I only cook at home for myself, well it's also healthier, you know, or, man, I decided like I wanted to walk to that place instead of driving.
52:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So, these habits all build upon each other and you will change how you see your actions in the environment and
52:58
[SPEAKER_01]: The more you do it, the more you can talk about it and by talking about it, and if it just changes somebody's reason to do one thing once, that might change their reason to do that one thing every time.
53:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And if we can get one more person and then one more person to do that, that's the only way to move forward in an environment that's driven by
53:17
[SPEAKER_01]: What you can call the corporate takeover of everything, the consumptive nature, right?
53:22
[SPEAKER_01]: There's enough clothes to close everybody on the planet for the next century, but we keep producing clothes.
53:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the same as shoes.
53:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It's everything.
53:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't have to be that way.
53:34
[SPEAKER_01]: We can live in this ultra-modern, incredibly accessible, neat time and be thoughtful about how we're interacting with this earth that we have one of.
53:47
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, you alluded to this.
53:49
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just going to re-highlight it when you start making decisions and you think, well, I feel good about that.
53:54
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a really small thing.
53:55
[SPEAKER_03]: But I feel good about that.
53:57
[SPEAKER_03]: It starts to align with your identity in a way where it's like, whoa, I'm somebody who tries to make a difference.
54:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm somebody who cares.
54:05
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, you don't have to be a radical and start pointing fingers at everybody else.
54:09
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, but when you can do is say, no, this feels good.
54:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
54:14
[SPEAKER_03]: And once you get there, I think life gets better.
54:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I think so.
54:18
[SPEAKER_03]: And everyone's got to find their own balance, but I appreciate you for saying it.
54:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the outdoor industry wants to sell product.
54:24
[SPEAKER_03]: What you're saying is, maybe they shouldn't sell so much product.
54:28
[SPEAKER_01]: But, or maybe they should, maybe we should all be part of the solution that allows them to still have a business that maybe is more expensive to buy the product but the product lacks last longer.
54:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Why does every season have to be a new jacket?
54:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
54:46
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't.
54:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I know, especially here in the Los Angeles, there are a lot of people that are skiing on gear that is 5, 10, 15 years old because guess what?
54:56
[SPEAKER_01]: They give you shit about where they are and they want to be part of the solution, which I find very cool.
55:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Alright.
55:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's a good place to wrap up.
55:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that we're talking about being sensitive to nature in the environment and how you can interact with it in a more meaningful, deeper way, more rewarding way.
55:12
[SPEAKER_03]: And then we ended with, hey, and this is something you can do to feel good about yourself and how you're impacting that same environment.
55:20
[SPEAKER_03]: So it kind of was a little circle.
55:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's cool.
55:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, Trevor, thank you for your time.
55:25
[SPEAKER_03]: That was cool, man.
55:26
[SPEAKER_03]: I have me on.
55:27
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, be safe out there.
55:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I try.
55:29
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the cool year.
55:32
[SPEAKER_03]: the the things that you're doing are edgy i'm not gonna i'm not gonna lie they're edgy but i i get it i understand it but stay safe and be with us for a long time okay i appreciate it thank very much alright well for all the listeners out there thank you for listening today and hopefully you found some nuggets in there i know that i did but make sure that whatever you do you get out there and have some fun