Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 416: What's New in Private and Public Land Conservation Policy with Whit Fosburgh

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Ep. 416: What's New in Private and Public Land Conservation Policy with Whit Fosburgh · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number four
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: sixteen in. Today we've got Witt Fostberg, the President and
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  Speaker 1: CEO of the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, here to discuss
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  Speaker 1: the public and private land conservation related policies, bills, and
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  Speaker 1: initiatives that hunters and anglers need to be watching. All right,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you
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  Speaker 1: by First Light. And today we are in week three
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  Speaker 1: of our Conservation Month series, and we're kind of taking
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  Speaker 1: an approach today that combines what we talked about in
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  Speaker 1: the first week and the second week. So week one
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  Speaker 1: we had Randy Newberg talking public lands, in week two
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  Speaker 1: we had Matt and Adam from Landing Legacy talking private land.
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  Speaker 1: And today we've got Wit from the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation
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  Speaker 1: Partnership to talk about where these two things come together. So,
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  Speaker 1: the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership is a nonprofit conservation organization
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  Speaker 1: that works to develop partnerships across a wide variety of
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  Speaker 1: different folks to move hunting and fishing related policies forward.
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  Speaker 1: Things that are good for hunters, things that are good
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  Speaker 1: for anglers, things that are good for wildlife and habitat,
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  Speaker 1: and they find they find ways to bring different organizations
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  Speaker 1: hunting organizations, fishing organizations, uh, different folks within the conservation
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  Speaker 1: world and and kind of move them in a way
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  Speaker 1: that we can achieve more by working together. It's a
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  Speaker 1: collaborative approach, and the TRCP works to build those relationships
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  Speaker 1: and get those things moving in the right direction. So today,
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  Speaker 1: what is going to kind of fill us in on
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  Speaker 1: what those very most important initiatives are. What's happening right
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  Speaker 1: now across the landscape, across the political world, across the
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  Speaker 1: on the ground kind of conservation movement. What's happening with
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  Speaker 1: private lands? What are the things that we need to
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  Speaker 1: be thinking about to make sure that there's healthy landscapes
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  Speaker 1: out there on private land for deer and deer hunters
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  Speaker 1: and all those other critters. And same thing for public lands.
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  Speaker 1: So we kind of take those two approaches that we
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  Speaker 1: talked about in the last couple of weeks bringing together
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  Speaker 1: get this high level kind of thirty thousand foot overview
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  Speaker 1: that WIT is is really well informed and able to
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  Speaker 1: help us on. So we're gonna discuss things like the
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  Speaker 1: next farm bill, which is really really important when it
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  Speaker 1: comes to the places that we deer hunters focused on.
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  Speaker 1: The farm bill is a tremendous conservation focused bill, so
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  Speaker 1: that's something we talk a lot about. We talked about
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  Speaker 1: how conservation could and should be thought about within the
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  Speaker 1: upcoming infrastructure build debate that I'm sure many of you
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  Speaker 1: guys have been hearing about in the news. There's some
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  Speaker 1: stuff in there that maybe there could be some stuff
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  Speaker 1: in there that should be helpful to deer and hunting
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  Speaker 1: and the outdoors and the natural world. We're gonna talk
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  Speaker 1: about migration corridors. This is something that Randy and I
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  Speaker 1: kind of teed up and I wanted WIT to dive
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  Speaker 1: into it further. We talk a decent bit about chronic
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: wasting disease, which I know is something that isn't the
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  Speaker 1: fun thing to talk about, but is important in What's
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  Speaker 1: got some updates for us there too. And then this
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  Speaker 1: one is something you don't hear a whole lot about
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  Speaker 1: within the hunting world, but it seems to be changing.
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  Speaker 1: We're talking about why organizations like the National Deer Association,
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  Speaker 1: the Archery Trade Association, White Tails Unlimited, Pope and Young Club,
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  Speaker 1: and dozens of other hunting and fishing industry companies and
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  Speaker 1: organizations why they're now talking about changes in climate and
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  Speaker 1: getting past the weird political polarization of this topic and
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  Speaker 1: talking about how hunters and anglers can push for common
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  Speaker 1: sense approaches to tackling this challenge and improving wildlife habitat
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  Speaker 1: in the environment, doing good things to make sure we
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  Speaker 1: can hunt and fish. So that's one of those topics
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  Speaker 1: that for a long time has been uh, superpolarizing, but
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  Speaker 1: it seems to be changing. And what's got some updates
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  Speaker 1: there that I think are worth here. So that's the
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  Speaker 1: game plan today. Um, it's an interesting conversation. I enjoyed it.
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  Speaker 1: If you want to stay up on these things, if
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  Speaker 1: you want to be a well informed hunter or angler
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  Speaker 1: and be able to you know, advocate when necessary, this
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  Speaker 1: kind of information is going to help you do it.
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  Speaker 1: The t RCP is a great resource and what is
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  Speaker 1: as well. So that's what we got. I enjoyed this one.
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  Speaker 1: I hope you do. Thanks for tuning in for Conservation
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  Speaker 1: Month and for thinking about these topics. Um, I think
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  Speaker 1: we can all make a big difference. And I'm excited to,
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  Speaker 1: you know, be a part of this community that I
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  Speaker 1: know is doing good things. So that is gonna be
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  Speaker 1: it for me. Let's get to my conversation with what Fostberg.
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  Speaker 1: All right now with me on the line is what Fostburg? What?
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  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show. Hey, thank you very much. Mark,
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  Speaker 1: It's great to be back with you. Yeah. I always
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  Speaker 1: enjoy our conversations and um, and this one maybe maybe
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: I don't want to say more than others, but especially today,
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  Speaker 1: it's just that time of year, at least for me,
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  Speaker 1: where a lot of conservation and environmentally things start popping
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  Speaker 1: up in the news, you know, with Earth Day and everything,
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  Speaker 1: and it's just always, for whatever reason, this time of
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  Speaker 1: year gets me reinvigorated to be looking at this big
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  Speaker 1: picture stuff. You know. So much of the year can
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: be focused on this hunting trip or this fishing trip
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  Speaker 1: or this project or whatever. But this springtime period, at
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  Speaker 1: least for me, always seems like a great opportunity to
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: step back and look at, you know, what are the
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  Speaker 1: things going on that ensure that I have places to
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  Speaker 1: go and have critters to chase and do those things.
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  Speaker 1: And uh, there's few people out there that are more
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  Speaker 1: involved with that than you would. Um. So how are
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  Speaker 1: you feeling these days? Are you feeling invigorated or you
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  Speaker 1: worn down? No, you know, I actually I feel pretty good. Um.
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  Speaker 1: You know, I think that you know, first of all,
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  Speaker 1: spring is a great time. You know, I ben as
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  Speaker 1: a turkey hunting a couple of times in the last
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  Speaker 1: couple of weeks, and the shatter in the river and
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  Speaker 1: you know, stripers are in the river. So it's a
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  Speaker 1: you know, sort of a time where optimism blooms. And
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  Speaker 1: we're not yet to the dog days of summer here
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  Speaker 1: in d C. So no, I think it's a good
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  Speaker 1: time to be optimistic. And then from a policy perspective,
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: new administration, there are always a lot of changes. There's
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  Speaker 1: always a lot of things they're trying to do, and
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  Speaker 1: you're you're scrambling, especially given you know, the last four
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  Speaker 1: years and then these upcoming four years. You know, you
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  Speaker 1: could not have pulled more polar opposites and a lot
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  Speaker 1: of conservation policies. But you know, we tend to sort
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  Speaker 1: of attract that middle ground anyway. So I think that,
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  Speaker 1: you know, we you know, we feel optimistic, but what
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  Speaker 1: we can accomplish we felt optimistic, what we accomplished are
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  Speaker 1: prodicultly accomplished in the last year or two. And uh no,
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  Speaker 1: I think you know, this is one of those issues
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  Speaker 1: that remains pretty much bi partisan in Congress. And you know,
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  Speaker 1: with that, I think we have an opportunity to actually
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  Speaker 1: get stuff done, whereas a lot of other people just
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  Speaker 1: you know, nash their teeth over Grid Luck in Washington. Yeah. So,
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  Speaker 1: how do you how does this swinging of the pendulum
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  Speaker 1: from left or right, left or right that we seemingly
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  Speaker 1: have every four to eight years. I mean, Randy Newberg
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  Speaker 1: and I were talking the other day about this and
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  Speaker 1: how you see, you know, historically over the last fifty
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  Speaker 1: years or so, we'll get good on the environment, but
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  Speaker 1: not so good on hunting rights and guns. When you
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  Speaker 1: go to the D side, and you'll be great on
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  Speaker 1: hunting rights and guns, but less so on the environment
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  Speaker 1: or public lands when we swing to the left. Um,
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  Speaker 1: are you seeing that changing at all? Are you seeing
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  Speaker 1: that we're starting to get a little more of that
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  Speaker 1: middle ground like you mentioned, or is that something that
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  Speaker 1: you guys are constantly battling given the fact that you're
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  Speaker 1: kind of planted in the middle as well as far
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  Speaker 1: as what your guys role is. Yeah, you know, I
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  Speaker 1: think that we are, you know, swinging back toward the
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  Speaker 1: middle a little bit. I mean, historically Republican has have
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  Speaker 1: been a good conservation of Democrats have you could argue
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  Speaker 1: even better going all the way back to the Roosevelt's time.
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  Speaker 1: E p A got created under Nixon. You know, a
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  Speaker 1: Clean Water Act came law hunder Nixon. You know, so
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  Speaker 1: you have you know, there have been you know, Republican
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  Speaker 1: presidents that have a lot of crow about in terms
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  Speaker 1: of conservation, and it's really only been in the last
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  Speaker 1: thirty years where you've seen that partisanship and you talked
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  Speaker 1: about the swings that go from administration administration. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: I think our main goal is to point out that
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  Speaker 1: you know, these are should not be partis issues. Um,
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  Speaker 1: you know, conservation habitat, you know, hunting, fishing, these are
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  Speaker 1: things I'll to be bringing us together. And I think
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  Speaker 1: you've seen that in the last year. In the last
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  Speaker 1: two years, we passed the Big Dingle Conservation Act, which
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  Speaker 1: established a bunch of new wilderness areas while the Scenic Rivers,
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  Speaker 1: but also permanently reauthorized Land and Water Conservation Fund, and
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  Speaker 1: then you know, in the last year, you know, we
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  Speaker 1: got the Great American Outdoors Act that fully funded forever
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  Speaker 1: at Land and Water Conservation Fund and invested almost and
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  Speaker 1: billion dollars into you know, fixing the maintenance back organ
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  Speaker 1: and public lands which could be trails, campsites, roads, boat ramps,
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  Speaker 1: you name it, visitors centers. There is a lot of
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  Speaker 1: neglect on our public lands and you know, we would
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  Speaker 1: even see it and things like you know, managing our forces.
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  Speaker 1: And I think that there's real opportunities here too sort
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  Speaker 1: of make some progress. And you know those acts in
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  Speaker 1: Dingleville at Great American Outdoors Act passed with overwhelming majorities
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  Speaker 1: Democrats and Republicans, and I think that, you know, then
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  Speaker 1: we also passed toward the end of last year the
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  Speaker 1: America's Conservation Enhancement Act, which was reauthorized or created a
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  Speaker 1: series of on the ground restoration bills, you know, like
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  Speaker 1: North American Wetlands Conservation Act, the National Fish Habitat Partnership
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  Speaker 1: actum programs like that that are you know sort of
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  Speaker 1: the you know, i'd say, the you know, the basic
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  Speaker 1: building stones of our community. So ducks unlimited uses the
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  Speaker 1: Wetlands Conservation Act to restore wetlands around this country, try
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: to limit it uses you know, fish habitat partnerships to
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  Speaker 1: restore headwater streams. And I think that, you know, we're
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  Speaker 1: seeing that kind of work embraced and extending and in
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  Speaker 1: a very nonpartisan way, which is great. And I think that,
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  Speaker 1: you know, our goal is always going to be to
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  Speaker 1: make sure we have durable conservation solutions that don't genuflect
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: back and forth every four years. And that was really
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: one of the frustrations when the Trump guys came into
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  Speaker 1: office was that, you know, they immediately assumed anything that
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  Speaker 1: happened under Obama was bad, even the really good stuff,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: and jettison as much as they could and so incredibly
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  Speaker 1: frustrating to have that. So one of our main jobs
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: we've been trying to do since well before the election
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: was to you know, you know, work as the Biden
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: campaign at that time now the Biden administration, to point out,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: you know, there really some very solid stuff that the
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Trump guys did on migration policy, on access and try
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: to not throw that out, but to build upon it
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: and all that can be approved and it can be strengthened.
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  Speaker 1: But it's something that shouldn't you know, just swing back
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  Speaker 1: and forth because the other guy didn't. And you know
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  Speaker 1: that is that can be challenging in this environment. But
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  Speaker 1: you know, we've had a pretty good reception so far
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  Speaker 1: from the Biden folks. It doesn't look like they're gonna
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: throw out the Migration Executive Order, a bunch of the
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: access programs that the Trump guys did, and I you know,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: we'll see more in you know, a time, but I
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: think they are going to build upon that stuff. So
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: you know, that's why we're cautiously optimistic right here. That's good.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: So so what then, what do you what's got you
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  Speaker 1: the most fired up? Like, is there one thing that
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: you're either the most excited about or the most worried about.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: It sounds like a little bit optimistic. So what's the
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: thing that that you are the most optimistic about? Maybe, well,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I mean everything in the for the next four years
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: is going to be viewed through the climate lens. And
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: you know, actually, I'm excited for our community to really
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: engage in that because the things that are good for climate,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: like a sucking carbon neck into the soils, you know,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: the sequence storation the adaptation, the resilience aspects of carbon
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: are really good for hunting and fishing and good for conservation.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Maybe look at the science on climate change. And I'm
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: not a climate scientist, but somewhere in the range about
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: of the solution is basically sucking carbon out of the atmosphere,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: and by far the best way to do that is
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: through natural processes like grasses and trees and uh. And
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: so I think we know, And we had a convened
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: our community for multiple times over the last couple of
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: years to really get everybody on the same page. And
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: if folks want to look at you know, we have
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: our land. We have a website that you know, I
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: think some I'll pull up the U R L right now,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: make sure I have it right, but a website that
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: lays out the position of our community on climate saying, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: you gotta reduce emissions, but you also have to have
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  Speaker 1: a major investment in you know, the on the ground,
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  Speaker 1: you know, the carbon sequestration inside. And you know, if
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: you want to think about what that means, you know
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: that is you know, things like reforestation that is more
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: land and agriculture, in conservation and not in road crops
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: that is cover crops. You know, where you do have
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: some road crops, it is you know, barrier islands and
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: better wetlands systems that are natural buffers for hurricanes, floods,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: you know, whatever it might be. They also clean the
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: water and they provide great fishing, wilife, habitat. So I
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: think that, you know, when I think about it, and
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: I think about and I'm you know, excited about something,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking about how we can apply what our community
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: wants anyway into this broader framework of climate and natural infrastructure,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: because I think it works really well for as a
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: climate solution, and it works really well forficial wildlife and habitat. Yeah. Yeah,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: you know, climate change is one of those things that
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: has become such a political um, I don't know if
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: it's political football, but but a but a flashpoint. Definitely
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: one of those things that becomes so politicized that I
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: think a lot of people have visceral reactions just to
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: the to the word, to the words climate change and
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: immediately feel like they have to retreat back to their
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: camp when they hear that. It's encouraging them to see
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: for myself, at least, what you guys are putting out
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: there with this Conservationist for Climate Solutions kind of initiative,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: and the fact that there's a wide array of organizations
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  Speaker 1: stepping up and saying like, hey, let's set the politics aside.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: There there is clear scientific evidence that stuff is happening,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: and we can make a difference to further you know,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: hunting and fishing. So I mean organizations like the National
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Deer Association, the Archery Trade Association, back Country Hunters and Anglers,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: POPE and Young White Tail Unlimited, Trout Unlimited, all these
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: organizations have signed on to to basically acknowledge this is
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: a real thing that we need to think about, and
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: let's let's put the politics aside and let's just work
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: on some things that can help wildlife while life habitat right.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's yeah. And I think that you know,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: and listen the polarization and the fact that this became
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: you know sort of Republicans versus Democrats, became Green New
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: Deal versus you know, you know, more coal. I mean,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: those sorts of you know, sort of you know, extremes
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: are not helpful. And it's what we've tried to do
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: is you know, it's called our Landwater Wildlife dot Org.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: And folks can check it out and is present this
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: not in a scary way, but as something that makes
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: you know, a ton of sense for the things we
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: really care about that are hunting and fishing, cleaner water
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: that our habitat, more biodiversity. I mean, give you one
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: example on this. You a managed forest like in private hands,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: is you know, absorbs about seven times more carbon than
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: our national forests too, because our national forests we've stopped
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: doing after banishment so much of it. And the extent
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: that we can go back in there and take out
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: those areas that have been blighted by beetle infestation and
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: they're just going to blow up in a fire at
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: some point, you know, cut them, replant, you know, create
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: a mosaic of hab debts to wilderness. Road this area's
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: early successional forest. I mean that is good for wildlife
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: and that's good for climate. So I think that you know,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: it's again how you talk about it. I'm not going
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: to go into the heartland and talk about climate change.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go in and talk about let's improving soil
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: health through start carbon's equestration. Let's go to Louisiana and
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: talk about you know, rebuilding barrier islands along our coast
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: and rebuilding wetlands to protect the cities, and yes, a
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: carbon solution too, but it's also something that if you
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: live along the coast of Louisiana, you're gonna do because
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: you're gonna get flooded if you don't have it. And
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: it's only so high you can build those levels. So
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: I think that so it's really a different way of
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: framing these issues. But in the long term, I think,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: you know, we all want the same thing. Even if
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: you look at Republicans in Congress and they have acknowledged
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: that climate change is happening, there are a ton of
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Republican bills out there would address it. There's a difference
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: in ideology. Sometimes we're in the Republicans sign the Democratic
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: side with more of a command and control versus incentive
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: technology versus a carbon tax or a cap and trade.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: You know, fine, you know I'm not the smartest guy
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: in the room. Let somebody else figure that stuff out.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: What our community can do is, you know, we can
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: help with habitat side. And you know that's and that
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: I think is really good for the things that you
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: and I care about. Yeah, so what would you say,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: for for hunters and anglers listening now and and this
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: being something that you know, for a long time has
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: not been top of mind at least within the conversation
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: within this community. You know, where are we at on that?
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Is it? Simply Hey, let's start paying more attention to
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: this and look for how the creative ways that we
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: can be a part of the solution. Is that where
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: we're at what, you know, what kind of action should
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: people be actually thinking about this point? Um? So, I
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: think the first thing is to let's you know, before
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: you have sort of a knee jerk reaction and some
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: sort of you know, snarky comment on a website, you know,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: sort of uh, you know, take a deep breath, you
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: listen and look at the science, have a discussion, because
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: chances are you're a lot closer than you think you
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: are in terms of folks on the other side that
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: have been navocating something you tend not to believe in.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: And then in terms of what you can do, see
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: this as an opportunity engage. I mean, you know, we
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: want to see the Farm bill programs, you know, the
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: conservation programs in the Farm bill, which is about a
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: six billion dollar annual program we'd like to see them
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: doubled in the next farm bill, so in the numbers
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: that Washington is kicking around these days, that's very doable.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: But if you think about twice as much land and
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: conservation out there that, how can you if you're a
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: hunter and angler, how can you think that's anything but
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: a good idea. We're not talking about, you know, sort
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: of converting our premium crop lands into CRP. I mean
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: CRP and the other conservation programs are really designed for
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: the more marginal habitats, which you know, unfortunately we tend
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: to plow up and put into row crops and drain
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: the adjacent wetlands, and and we've got to get away
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: from those incentives and instead incentivize private landowners to do
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: us right for the land and for all the critters,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: and for the water and and for soil health, and
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: so even things like cover crops. You go on the
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: eastern shore of Maryland, people been doing cover crops for
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: years primarily because it was a solution for all the
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: runoffs are going to the chest Peak Bay and really
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: creating problems there. But you go to place like Iowa,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: and the use of cover crops, you know, is rare.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: So you know, let's start thinking. And you know, I'm
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: not gonna tell some pretty somebody in Iowa how to farm.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: They know that far better I'm ever going to know it.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: But you know, think about if we can incentivize them
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: to do things like, you know, during the winter, you know,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: put some other crops down that keep the soil in
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: place and sword carbon, and we'll make it worth your
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: while financially. Let's let's think about that. So again, I think,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: going back to your original question, let's just not sort
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: of you know, back into our corners. Let's have a conversation.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Let's figure out ways that you know work for us.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: And you know, as you know, hunters and anglers tend
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: to be on the front lines of climate change. We
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: see duct migrations being delayed, or geese not even getting
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: down in the chest Peak Bay. You know, we see
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: elks staying up in the mountains longer. You know, you know,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: we see you know, book trout Home range and the
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: appellations retreating every year. And you just can't ignore these friends.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, listen, let's be a part of the
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: solution instead of just you know, complaining about things. Yeah,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: and and given the fact that there is momentum around
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: taking action on some climate related things. You know, like
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: you just said, a lot of the priorities that these
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: hunters and anglers have also would benefit the climate, and
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: so we kind of have an opportunity to ride the
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: momentum wave to to get some winds for things that
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: we have previously historically always cared about, and then it
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: becomes a win win for all sides. So from that perspective,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense. Um. Yeah, I mean
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: that's the that's the that's what gets me excited about
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: the time we're in right now, is I just think
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: there are a ton of opportunities for our community and
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: the year's add and we just have to stand up
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: and engage. Yeah. So you mentioned the farm bill, Um,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: the next Farm bill authorizations in right, that's correct. Okay,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: So we're you know somewhere around two years year and
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: a half, two years out from that. This is I
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: think it's accurate to say it's the largest private land
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: related conservation bill that comes through every handful of years. Yeah,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: it's the largest conservation program in this country period. I mean,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: we spend more on conservation through the Farm bill than
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: we do on all of our public lands combined. Yah.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: So so and from a pure dollar standpoint, it's the biggest.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: But that makes sense. The lower forty eight or in
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: private hands, and the majority of that is either in
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: farm or in managed forest. So it's you know, it's
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: a huge it's a huge deal in terms of conservation. Yeah.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: So with this next one coming up, then what are
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: the big priority issues or changes you want to see made?
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: I know there, you know, I know CRP is a
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: big when I'm sure, Um, but could you kind of
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: walk us through as far as a hunting community, what
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: should we be paying attention to and you know, writing
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: to our representatives and senators and whatnot about what are
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: those big asks we have for the next bill. Well,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: I'll start even before the next bill. We have to
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: get the implementation the current bill, you know moving. I mean,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: we have CRP is down to almost twenty million acres
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: right now. It was a high about thirty eight million
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: acres you know, a couple of decades ago, and it's
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: to say it's been dying on the vine is an understatement. Um.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: You know, there is another three million acres that are
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: expected to basically rotate out of the program. Later on
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: this year. So, and the reason that's happening is, and
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna be critical of the Trump administration on this one,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: is that they just you know, didn't care about the program.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: They were much more than just sending bailout checks to
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: farmers to do nothing than investing in programs like the
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: RP that work. So you had limited sign ups to
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: sign ups that we had. You know, we're not offering
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: any decent incentives. The rental rates were too low. It
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: just wasn't in a farmer's interest, you know, to take
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: his or her land and put it into c RP.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: And we have to make that program competitive. Now. We
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: don't want to wait till the Farm Bill had to
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: fix it. Let's make some changes now. We think the
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: current administration has extended the current CRP sign up and
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: they're going to come up with ways to basically increase
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: the incentives to get more acres enrolled in that. And
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: you know, if you're a pheasant hunter in South Dakota,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: you care a whole lot about the rap. If you're
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: a deer hunter, you know that this your habitat too.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: You know, ducks very important. But I think that you
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: know goal number one is to fully implement the current
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: farm Bill, which hasn't been done. And then two is
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: we're looking toward the next one. I mentioned an overall
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: doubling of you know, the conservation title of the Farm bill,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: going from about six billion to twelve billion dollars a year.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: And we want to see things like incentive payments, you know,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: for any of these programs the increase. We want to
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: see more long term easements, you know, in sort of
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: critical wetland areas for example. UM, we want to see
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: things like the Regional Conservation Partnership program, which looks at
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: entire landscapes and you know, sort of takes a holistic
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: approach to how do we conserve this area and make
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: it work for private agriculture, And so maybe a whole
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: bunch of different things from the stream restoration projects to
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: easement projects too, you know, the sentence for cover crops
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: or whatever it might be. So I think that you know,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: all of the programs have their champions and have their merits.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: We just need more of all of the above as
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: we look into the next Farm Bill. And I think
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: that we're already you know, sort of beginning that process
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: of convening there we have that groups underneath our trsp
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: umbrella that really care about farm bill, Toxic Limited Physists, Forever,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Turkey Federation, and you know, we're already having those discussions
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: about Okay, if we're king and we're gonna come back
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: in here and we're gonna redraft this, let's not be
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: wedded to the way we've always done in the past.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Let's think about what works best and not just us
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: for fishing, wildlife and water quality, but also for the
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: other farmer, because if it doesn't work for the farmer,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: it's not gonna work for our interests either. So we're
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: having those discussions now. We've welcome any input from folks
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: out there about things they've seen that do work and
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: that don't work. They can go to our website. You know,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: we have a whole section on farm bill. You know,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: leave a comment. You know. Uh, Andrew Earle is the
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: guy who runs our agg program, a Earl at TRCP
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: dot org. Send him your thoughts about things you've seen
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: that work and don't work, because now is the time to,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: you know, let us know what you're seeing out there
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: and things changes that you think would make some sense.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: And your listeners are all over the country and a
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: Lobdburg farm country and whitetail country. We want to hear
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: what they're here. Yeah, you know, it seems like something
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: like like this, this bill, the Farm Bill, that comes
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: up over and over again. It's it's it's almost equivalent
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: to something like the Great American Outdoors Act, which was
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: a thing more public land focus, what was getting a
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: ton of funding for backloud maintenance and which was securing
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: funding for the Land and Water Conservation Fund. It was
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: it was securing funding for really really important, you know,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: public access type initiatives. The Farm Bill secures funding for
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: really really important private land related conservation and access. You've
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: got the voluntary um Hunter Access program that you know,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: makes so many places across the country available for deer hunters.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Then of course as a CRP program that you describe,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: which puts really the high quality wildlife habitat on the ground,
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: and then all the other pieces of this puzzle that
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: incentivize you know, quality wetlands, quality grasslands, all this stuff
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: that we need to deer hunt, to duck hunt whatever.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: It seems like this is on par as far as
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: the positive impact you can have, but it just isn't
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: as sexy I think it's harder to get people fired
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: up about a farm bill every five years, even though
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: it could make a really really big difference. How how
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: do we I don't know, what do you? I mean?
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Is there any truth to that? Wet? Do you feel
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: like I feel like this still flies into the radar
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: for the average hunter out there, even though it has
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: so much importance. Yea, yeah, Mark, I mean I think
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: you framed the issues actly right. This is essentially a
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: privately and equivalent of the Great American Outdoors Act of
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: you know, the Dangle Act, and this that big a
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: deal and it happens every five years. Um, but it's
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: you know, it's not clean and simple. I mean, the
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: great majority of money out of the farm bill is
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: the nutrition program, which is food stands. And there's a
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: reason for that because there was a compromise long ago,
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: you know where you did that. You know, you wanted
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: something to help urban you know, congressmen and members of
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: the Senate, and you want to have something that would
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: benefit you know, the rural farmers. So they lumped both
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: the nutrition assistance and you know, the conservation programs and
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: the rest of the traditional farm programs all in one bill.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: So you know, the noise is always about, you know,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: how much money we're spending on food stamps or how
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: we're subsidizing corporate farms or things like that, and the benefits,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: especially on the conservation side. You just don't hear about those.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: And I mean it's obviously a huge deal, you know,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: for our community, for our partners, but more broadly, Yeah, no,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: it's you're exactly right, is you know something that's much
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: more difficult to get your arms round because it's such
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: a beast. Yeah, what's the what's the time frame when
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: it comes to influencing the upcoming farm bill as far
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: as you know, not folks that are working in within
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: the policy landscape and industry, but folks like me who
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: are just out here who want to place a phone
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: call or send an email and start trying to make
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: sure that our representatives are on board with this. When
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: is that is that ino? Or or when do we
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: need to start making a rucket to make sure good
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: things are put into this well, I mean you start
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: making rockets right now, and things like you know, if
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: you're you know piste that you know, land just keeps,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: you know, seeping out of the conservation reserve program. For example,
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: you don't wait till three to talk about that. Talk
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: about that now, because we want to have maintained the
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: pressure on this administration to do something about that. So
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: let's do that. First second is, you know, if you
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: have you know, we will sort of be gearing up
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: our advocacy for the next Farm Bill, probably late this
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: year early next year, and you know full and you
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: can you can get your cues from you know, our
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: website or from phusis Forever Duxi limit to whoever about
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: opportunities to engage at that time. But you know, this
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: gives you a little bit of time right now to
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: you know, learn more about these programs how they might
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: impact you. I mean one that you mentioned that I've
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: forgotten to mention that voluntary Public Access program. You know,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: that's a huge one, you know, so just so folks
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: understand how that works. It's a fifty million dollar program
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: in the Farm bill currently, and it provides you know,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: grants to states on a competitive basis, and then those
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: states and they developed easements or basically agreements with individual
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: landoors to open up that land for public hunting and fishing.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: And then in return, the farmer gets the payment and
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: the stage assumes liability as you know, somebody gets injured
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: on your property. So it's a program that really works.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: It works well with things like you know, the walk
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: in programs and a lot of Western states. You know,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: when they started this program on the federal side through
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: the Farm Bill, and it was really trast ted and
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: FENSIS Forever and AFFLA Association of Fish whild Life Agencies
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: that work together to create this program the two thousand
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: eight Farm Bill. But because of their money now exists.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: You've had these types of programs start up in states
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: like Massachusetts, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, but you don't think about as
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: you know, traditional farm states per states where access can
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: be pretty challenging. So what we want to see again,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: you know, you know, we have a report on our
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: website lays out some of the success stories around this
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: program that give us folks an idea of how these work.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: But now is the time to start advocating for more
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: of that because you know, we're trying to figure out
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: ways to keep farmland and farmer's hands and not see
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: it turned into condos or walmarts or anything else. And
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: this is another way that the farmer can get revenue
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: coming in in addition to whatever they're doing on the
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: crop side, in addition to CRP or other conservation programs
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: they may be rolled in. But to extent that, you know,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: this makes it easier for them to stand land and
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: gives us for opportunity to hunt and fish in good places.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Is the win win. Yeah, yeah, it really is. And
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: there's there's probably not any other issue that is impacting
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: more hunters right now from like a really ground level
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: than access. I mean everyone's talking about access these days.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Everyone's talking about how overcrowded some places have been feeling,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: as we've had increased participation over the last year. So
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: I mean you're looking for more access opportunities like this
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: can give us. I mean, there's no there's no knock
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: against it as far as I'm concerned. So let's really
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: hammer that home for sure. Yeah, and I think a
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: lot of the criticisms about, you know, there's too many
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: people at trail, has too many people in certain areas
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: is all very true. But that same part because we
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: have lost traditional access for a long long time. The
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: old days in the West, you can knock on anybody's
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: door across their land access at national forest behind you,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: you can't do that anymore. All those lands are posted,
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: and which then forces everybody in the state Western United
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: States into restricted acts official access sites of that national forest,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: which obviously increases conflict, produces the user experience, and it's
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: just a bad deal all the way around. So things
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: like the voluntary public access program for private lands create
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: more of that. In the East, I mean, you've seen
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: the same sort of you know changes the old days,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: all the timber company lands in Maine or the Adirondex
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: you could just go and hunt on, But now they're
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: almost all the least. So if you're fortunate enough to
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: be a part of that least, then you've got a
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: great place to go, But a lot of other folks
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: get shut out of that. And so these programs are
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: critical for providing the experience that's going to keep this
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: sport strong in the future. Yeah. So so kind of
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: hop scotching to another hot topic within the world of
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: politics right now, there's there's a lot of talk about
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: the big infrastructure UH proposal coming out of the current administration,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: and it seems like, you know, given the political situation,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: it seems like something's going to pass one way or another,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: whether it's bipartisan or not, something's going to happen on
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: this front. So what does that mean for you know,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: is there an opportunity there for hunters and anglers? Hunters
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: and anglers? It seems like from some of the things
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: that I've been reading and some of the things that
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: you guys are talking about, UM with your Conservation Works initiative, UM,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: you guys see some opportunities in there. Can you kind
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: of outline where you think wildlife and habitat and stuff
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: like that fits into this? Maybe, yeah, I thinks another
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: opportunity and we usually don't think about things like an
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: infrastructure bill as an opportunity for official life. But part
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: of that is definitions and you know, part of what
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: we have been trying to advocate. And you know, again
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: we have our whole you know web you know, sex
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: of our websites about this. But what we're trying to
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: advocate is that, you know, first of all, let's redefine
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: how we think about infrastructure. It's not just about you know,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: bigger levees and you know, just sort of the hard
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: gray of the structure as they call it. It is
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: also about the green infrastructure. It is about wetlands. This
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: is about you know, barrier islands, the things we've talked
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: about that can make huge differences in terms of communities
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: but also for our issues, and I think we're making
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: some progress on that. I mean, you know, North Maryland's
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Conservation Act. It's great program for ducks, but it's also
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: you know, critically important for preserving wetlands, which in turn
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: take care of reduced flooding and improved water quality. So
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: if you're not sending all this polluting water down the
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: Upper Mississippi River as fast as you can, overwhelming the
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: wastewater treatment facilities and cities like Des Moines, yeah, you're
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: doing a good thing not only for people, but also
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: for the environment and for you know, things we like
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: to go hunt for. So I think that, you know,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: part of his definitions and really thinking about infrastructure in
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: a difrent way because you know, historically the core of engineers,
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: you know, organizations like that, have viewed infrastructures one way
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: and that's something that is built, and we're trying to
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: expand that definition a little bit. But you also think
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: about things like the Highway Bill, which is part of
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: you know, it probably is going to be part of
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: any big infrastructure package. Yeah, we had you know, pilot
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: programs of two fifty million dollars in both the House
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: bill and the Senate bills that would pay for wildlife crossings.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: So you hear in Wyoming you may have seen these,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: you know, to take new old deer, elk, pronghorn over
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: the interstates so they don't you know, get hit and uh,
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: you know, people aren't put at risk also, and these
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: are things that make a ton of sense. The animals
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: use them, they habituate to them. Um. And obviously there
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: was a whole bunch of things in terms of sighting
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: where you put these, but we want to see that
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: program in this current effort kicked out to five million
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: dollars and go for things beyond us big game of
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: the West, to the United States, to a lot of
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Eastern programs. I mean, there's issues with black bear in Tennessee,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: elk in Kentucky and Pennsylvania, reptiles and amphibians and New Jersey.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: So there are a bunch of different places we need
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: to think about how do we get animals that always
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: have to move over these systems that are often lethal
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: to them and to people. So that's just an idea.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: If we think about infrastructure, the ways that we can
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: get some of our priorities built into these broader programs. Now,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: there's gonna be a ton of stuff that has nothing
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: to do with our issues, from we'real broadband to traditional
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: roads and bridges, and that's all fine, but we just
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: want to make sure that, you know, as Congress looks
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: at putting together a big package on this um, that
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: our issues are included. Now, when the Biden administration you know,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: sort of rolled out initial thoughts and blueprint for what
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: would be in there, you know, they've talked about this
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: natural infrastructure, which is important. They've talked about, you know,
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: restore one of the everglades, you know, which is you know,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: critical and obviously a priority of hours. They've talked about
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: restoring wetland function around the Great Lakes. So I think
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: that you know, there are a lot of folks that
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: have been hearing this that are going to be on
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: the same page with us. But like climate, you know,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: we see this as another opportunity. Is this one of
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: those things where it's how do you see the outdoors
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: community engaging on this one? Is there are we the
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: stage yet where we have a concerted or we should
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: have a concerted effort of of pushing any of these things,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: or are we still kind of in a wait and
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: see holding pattern to see what actually gets put into
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: some kind of bill where do you feel stuff stands
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: on that? And you know, I think that there's a
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: there's an opportunity to you know, straight engage right away.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, we've got you know, a
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: good to our website. We have a natural infrastructure you know,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: some micro site within that really talks about what do
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: we mean by natural infrastructure. We barrier islands, you know,
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: living shore lines, rivers and streams, all that stuff, so
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: it becomes familiar with some of the you know, the
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: topics that are being discussed. But right now there is
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: not an infrastructure bill that has actually been put together.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: So that is coming. So there will be a time,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: you know, in the not too distant future where wild
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: have a chest to weigh in and to support you know,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: S twenty three or whatever it's going to be. You know,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: that will be you know, a Senator House version of
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: an instruction infrastructure package. And I actually think that this
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: is one of those areas that there's a lot of
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: bluster right now. But I think Democrats and Republicans believe
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: that we need to invest in a big way and infrastructure,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: you know how big ways and other things. What are
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: so of the you know, the ancillary issues that might
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: get tacked on. There's gonna be some debate about that,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: but I think there is broad consensus that infrastructure has
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: been neglected for too long in this country and needs
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: to be invested in. Yeah. Yeah, it'll be interesting to
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: see how all plays out. I I hope this is
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: one of those things that can bring folks from all
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: sides together and get something that makes sense uh moving forward. Uh,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: But as it seems, there's always seems to be opportunities
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: for things get crazy. Who knows. UM always always opportunities
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: for that. Yeah, yeah, that's for sure. You mentioned another
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: thing I want to talk about, which was UM these
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: migration corridors UM. I've been kind of personally becoming more
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: and more fascinated with UM corridors and connectivity and UM
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: A lot of these ideas around kind of island ecosystem
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: impacts and how that is starting to happen across you know,
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: actual contiguous land. You know, so there's a lot of
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: ideas about how wildlife populations UM adjust and live and
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: thrive or or don't thrive on actual islands in the
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: middle of the water. But also that stuff seems to
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: translate to, you know, areas where a wild area essentially
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: becomes a de facto island because it's surrounded by development
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: or or whatever. So um, something like a mountain range
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: surrounded by desert, or the greater Yellowstone ecosystems surrounded by
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: increasingly you know, more development cities, etcetera. UM. And and
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: one of the big things here is the importance of
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: having these corridors, migration quarters and whatnot, so that you
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: can not only have actual big game migrations continue, but
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: you can also have these populations, you know, be able
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: to connect between different chunks of of ground so that
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: you know, a bear that's in one area can mingle
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: with bears fifty miles away, and so they don't get
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: stuck in their own little island. And then that population
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: never gets influx of of of new genes, and and
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: it can better weather, you know, changes in whether it's
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: climate or pressures from people or fire or whatever. So
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: I've been I've been just reading a lot about this.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: It's very interesting. UM. I'm just curious where you're where
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: you guys are on these things, stuff like the Wildlife
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: Quarters Conservation act Um. Just curious, you know what what's
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: on your radar on that front other than you mentioned
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: the wildlife crossings. Yeah, so, I mean science has come
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: a long way on this issue over the years. And listen,
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: you and Ronnell and I have talked about like Aisle
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Royal and the wolves and the moose, and that's a
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: classic example of what happens over time when you can't
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: get influx of new genetics into a population, they end up,
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: you know, essentially blinking out. So you know, movement is critical,
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: particularly a big game species. And we I think everybody
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: who knows who hunts or knows that in intrinsically. I
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: mean you've you've obviously things like half of the prong horn,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: you know, coming out of Jackson and going down towards
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: the Red Desert is famous. The New Old Deer research
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: and going on to Wyoming is just fascinating where they
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: have collared mule deer and track them and they may
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: travel hundred and fifty miles and uh and then then
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: you start to think about the things they need along
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: that journey. It's not just how to get across the highway,
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: or how to deal with fenses. It is, you know,
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: the stop over areas where they gain strength for the
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: rest of that trip. And if you've got an oil field,
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: there's some stort of development of what was a historic stopper,
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: or they just keep on going they don't have that nutrition. So,
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: you know, our thought about what it goes into protect
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: these migrations, first of all, what progrations are like, but
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: then what we need to do to protect them has changed.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: And it's just super cool. Science and University Wyoming has
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: done a tremendous amount on this, and National Geographic has
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: and variety of scientists and it's super inspiring and it's
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: something that the broader population can connect to as well.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: And you talk about bears, you know, my company out Ondex,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: I mean there is no white tail migration. Every year.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: Come right around Thanksgiving as it starts to get cold
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: and deep snow, they essentially, you know, leave our property
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: head down across the Hudson River, you know, and probably
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: a twenty mile giver take migration into an area where
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: they guess historically winnered over the years, and then they
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: moved back in the spring. And it's one of those
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: things that the only reason we know about is because
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: we've stumbled upon it hunting, when all of a sudden
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: towards you know, that late season time, you start seeing
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: all these those and fawns and you know, spike bucks,
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: you know, just cruising down here. I mean the paths
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: are beaten to mud. The big bucks stick around, they
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: can handle the heavy winter, but the smaller animals, younger animals,
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: you know, they all basically leave the property. And it's,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: you know, something you know I wasn't aware of fifteen
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: twenty years ago, but we've kind of figured out over
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: time and if that's happening there, then it's happening in
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: a lot of different places. So it just argues that
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: we need to create these incentives to allow these animals
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: to move, particularly as the climate gets warmer and they're
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: going to have more and more of the need. And
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: so how does that look. Yeah, we talked about crossings,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: but we also think about things like the Land and
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: Water Conservation Fund, and if we're going to be purchasing
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: you know, lands or easements on private lands, you know
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: that they're going to be critically important to allow these
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: you know, let's think about that not just in the
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: terms this is a beautiful vista, but that this is
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: a really important site on their migration journey, and let's
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: use some of these resources that we have for these
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: types of projects in those areas, in other words, to
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: follow the science and you know, maintain these migrations. Now,
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: I'm going to give the Trump administration a lot of
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: credit in this one when they did Secretary Order three
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: zero six to which basically directed the western states that
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: had mule deer pronghorn elk to come up with their
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: top migration corridors in those states and then you know,
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: work with the federal government to identity to create conservation plans.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: And that was not only important in its own right,
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: but that also led to a bunch of the Western
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: states creating their own programs. And you had to states
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: like Utah and Wyoming that had done a fair bet
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: on migration already, but then you had others like you know, Colorado, Nevada,
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: New Mexico's doing this, you know, come up with their
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: their own programs that are going to be critically important
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: in the future. So we just want to make sure
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: there's no backsliding on that, because you know, that is
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: you know, really important stuff. What do you see as
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: the next steps on that? So the executive order got
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: those plans being put in place, Um, what's what's necessary
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: to get that into actual action? All right? So I
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: think here we talked a little bit about, for example,
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: the highway bill and funding you know too, because one
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: of these crossing was over especially a big interstate is expensive,
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: so you know, we need to have money for crossings.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: We need to have money to incentivize farmers to change
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: their fencing structures. Pronghorn don't jump over fence, they slide
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: under fences, so they have to have the particular designed
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: types of senses that it will allow them to pass um.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: But also more broadly, how do we make sure that
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: this is embraced and works for the private landowner and
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: they don't see it as something that all of a sudden,
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: you know, it's another burden that's being opposed upon them
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: without any resources help them. So you know, let's figure
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: out some financial incentives and that's what it takes to
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: retrofit fences to you know, sort of provide you know
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: that you know, you know, grasses or whatever they need
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: and that stopover habitat. How do we do a better
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: job fighting things like oil gas, solar wind development so
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: that it's well off of these corridors and doesn't impact
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: either winter habitat or summer habitat. I mean, these are
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: all the things that we've got to sort of put
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: into policy now that we've embraced conceptually the idea of
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: conserving migration quarters. Yeah. So I think a lot of
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: that stuff was included in the Wildlife Corridors and Wildlife
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: Corridors Conservation Act that past the House last summer. I believe, Um,
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: where do you see that going? Is that going to
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: be resurrected? Do you think or a new version? Well there,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I think you're gonna see a new
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: some new versions. Does this mean? So? You know, we
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: had a little bit of heartburn, you know with the
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: one that came out of the House, not because it
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: was ill intended by any news, but you know, in
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: my mind, the last thing we need is another federal
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: designation of migration cordors, which we've seen it from other
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: top down solutions from Washington that are not you know,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: received well in the West. They think us, here we
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: go again, you know, Washington d C. Telling us how
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: to do our business. And I just think that, you know,
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: if what we're doing right now, you know, with the
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: incentives based approach to corridors is working, we want to
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: expand that. And if we turn it into a quote
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: federal program, you know, we risk you know, sort of
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: the you know, the traditional back black helicopter crowd that
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: he thinks, here they come in. This is a stalking
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: horse for you know, my you know, for getting into
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: my land, and it's just going to create controversy. Who
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: I don't think we need it. I mean, honestly, I
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: just don't believe we need to have sort of the
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: federal designation of migration corridors. Let's incentivize the states and
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: private land ors to just conserve these corridors. And that's
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: the place where I think the federal government can play
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: the biggest role and not necessarily and designating corridors. So
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: then for us on the ground, it then becomes kind
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: of pointing our advocacy towards our state departments DNR or
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: whatever like that, to make sure they're knowing that we
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: care about these things too. Yeah. Absolutely, I mean, this
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: is a partnership between the FENS and the states, but
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: ultimately the states have primary jurisdiction over managing wildlife in
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: this country, particularly if it's not a migratory bird or
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: if it's not and danger species. So you know, they're
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: going to be the primary ones in charge that making
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: sure we've got plenty of white tailed deer, mule deer, pronghorn, elk.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, you name it, all those species that move.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: So a federal government program is great if it helps
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: the states achieve that same conservation goal too. So again
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: I think that it's got to be a partnership. It's
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: got to be across the multiple federal agencies, multiple states.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, while I don't recognize state borders, so you've
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: also just it doesn't work just to have one state
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: doing it, not another state. So again I think that
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: the federal government can lead and provide incentives, but ultimately
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: I think most of the rubbers gonna hit the road
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: at the state level. Yeah yeah, but I also I
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: also should have mentioned too you talked about next steps.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: Two credits that were left out of the Trump program
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: were moose and wild sheep, and mostly for political reasons,
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: we would love to see those, you know, added into
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: the you know, sort of the federal designate in terms
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: of priority for these Western migrations. And then also and
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: things about you know, obviously connectivity, it's not just a
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: Western issue, but how can we create a program that
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: incentivized the states in the east to do the same
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: thing that we're doing in the West right now. So
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: I think those are the other things looking forward we
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: need to be doing. Yeah, what's the story on on
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: moost and sheep? Why did they get the political shaft
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: from that one? Well, there's been you know, a lot
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: of you know, the sheep growers out the west have Yeah,
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: there's a ton of conflict with domestic and wild sheep
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: because obviously wild sheep don't do too well when they
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: bump into domestic sheep from disease transfer. And so you know,
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: there's been Really the way you're going to conserve wild
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: sheep in the West is to keep them separating from
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: domestic sheep and to be sent that we're allowing those
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: animals to move to, say between mountain ranges. You know,
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: there were a lot of private landowners. I saw this
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: is something that yeah, I was going to you know,
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: not be in their interests. The sheep growing in the story.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: So I think that's where most of the most most
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: of pushback came from gotcha, gotcha? Okay? Um. So another
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: big picture issue that I am intrigued by and interested about, uh,
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: is the whole thirty by thirty initiative which has been
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: kind of am a rallying cry that has been spreading
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: across the country, in the world, and most recently was
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: was included in executive order by the current administration as
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: a goal to work towards that being protecting of our
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: land and waters by UM from a hunter and angler perspective,
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: from the TRCP perspective, what do you guys think about this,
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: this goal, this initiative and uh, and where do you
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: see it going? So it's it can go one of
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: two ways. It could either be really exciting something that
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: again I think could really you know, benefit our long
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: term goals of conservation, hunting and fishing. Or it could
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: be it's sort of a preservationist let's a trojan horse
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: that ends up, you know, preventing active management on a
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: lot of lands, creating a lot of controversy. So you
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: know that you know, this is the thirty by thirty
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: concept was originally international and it was in response to
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: the collapse in biodiversity around the world. And I think
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: that you know it is you know, you know, very
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: well intended and you know necessary because you know, the
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: US does a better job literally of any other country
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: in the world of managing a fish and wildlife. But
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: if you go to Africa, Southeast Asia, you know a
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: lot of other places, it is very different. And you're
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: going to be seeing South America extinction on a very
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: large level, already seeing it. So as this gets transported
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: to the US, there has already been a date between
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: and actually you use the word protect and the word
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: actually was in the Biden executive Order was conserved. And
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: there there was a reason behind that, and there were
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: you know, us and a bunch of other people saying
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: that you're serious about biodiversity, about conservation, about climate. You
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: can't just draw lines on a map and just say,
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: you know, people basically are not allowed in there, and
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: we're never going to touch that area, because you know,
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: we've done that in a lot of places. And Lison,
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: I love wilderness, is much of the next guy. But
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: we need is a mosaic and habitats in this country.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: We need or like successional, we need mid successional, we
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: need late successional force. Um, we want you know, we
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: want to make sure that private land ers are embracing
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: and are part of the solution to achieve in that
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: third percent goal. What that means is conservation even with
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: long term ease, and it's under the Farm Bill. I mean,
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: the threat is not you know, somebody you know, grazing
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: some cattle in place that is land being converted from
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: native grassland, road crops, from open space to condos. And
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: that's where you really lose the biodiversity, and that's where
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: you really lose conservation. And we've been winning the battle
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: so far. You know, we had an executive order that
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: came out of the White House, so we used the
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: word conserve and launched a stakeholder process that includes private
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: landowners to talk about what are going to be the
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: definitions around conservation as we think about achieving these goals
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: by And I think that's a very positive step because then,
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: you know, what we're doing is we're thinking much more
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: broadly than just you know, drawing lines on a map
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: and protecting areas from the humans. The humans have always
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: been a part of the environment. We're always going to
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: be and uh, you know, I think as you know,
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: you look at a place like Indiana, where the rough
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: grouse has now been listed as a threatened species in
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: the States. It's not because they've been over hunted. It's
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: because we know longer have cutting any wood out there,
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: and we just don't have those early successional for uts.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: So I think as we think about this particularly biodversity frame,
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: I think this again is going to work in our
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: community's interests if we engage and if we talk about
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: you know, the broad conservation benefits um that go beyond
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: just wilderness and mindedness. So in in in the best
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: case scenario, you would like to see this measured not
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: only in you know a number of acres that are
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: protected as parks or wildlife refugees or wilderness or anything
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: like that, but also with private lands that are under
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: conservation easements, um what else and maybe not even not
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: even permanent conservation. You could be fifteen years the RP
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: contract in my mind that's protected. It may not be
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: in fifteen years, and we have to readjust you know,
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: we have to go back in and work for that
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: lander or to re enroll those lands. But in terms
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: of you know, sort of heading heading off the species
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: collapse of getting more land into better management of dealing
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: with our climate goals or infrastructure goals. These all work together. Yeah,
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: so I think that, you know, I think that the
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: private land ard has to be a part of the
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: solution on this. I think that working lands on our
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: national forests need to be a part of it. I mean,
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: nobody wants to go back to the good old days
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: of clearcuts everywhere, like we're seeing in the spot of
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: nol Wars. But we've moved on as a country from that,
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: and you can have active management and manage for early
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: successional species on our national forests and have that land
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: be considered conserved in my mind, because it is not
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: going to be developed and it's going to be producing
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: broad benefits from the species to climates. You know, this
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: is one of those issues that are one of those
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: opportunities at least. The way I'm seeing right now that
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: I think can hit home probably hits so just about
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: every one of us, because I think almost any one
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: of us right now could look back in our childhood
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: to some favorite fishing hole or some little backwoods wood
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: lot where we used to build a fort or chase rabbits,
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: or some creek that we used to catch fish in
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: that now when we go back to revisit that place
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: of our childhood, it's a walmart, it's a highway, it's
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: uh drainage ditch. I mean, we're we're losing so many
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: of these open spaces and we're all seeing everywhere. It's
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: just it's happening, and it seems relentless, um to have
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: at least some kind of some kind of hopeful goal of, hey,
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: let's try to proactively, you know, get ahead of this
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: in a few places. Man that I think people are
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: gonna get sick of me bringing this up because I'm
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: excited about the positive potential here, because i want to
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: make sure, you know, my kids have got a little
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: wood a lot to go chase rabbits in the fishing
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: pond to catch you know, blue gills, and that's not
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: surrounded by industrial development. Um. It seems like something that
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: if we get involved with it and and help aim
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: it in the right direction, this this could and should
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: be a really good thing. Yeah, I'm totally with you.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: And again, you have to be an optimist to be
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: in our business. I mean, if you're a pessimist, you
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: want to quit a long time ago and go on
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: and you know, build a bunker in the ground someplace
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: and you know, flipped off a deer and that's it.
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: But you know, I mean, you have to be optimistic
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: about this, and you want to have these goals, and
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: you want to have everybody sharing these goals. And part
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: of the things is, I think, you know, need about
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: the thirty by thirty concept is we get private landowners
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: behind this concept thinking about how can they contribute to
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: that the long term goals and nation in the world.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: I think that's good and not see this is something
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: that's a threat to them, but it was something that
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: you know, could make sure that they have that farm
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: and their family for generations to come, you know, doing
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: good things not just for producing crops, but for all
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: the other ancillary benefits, including access and teaching their grandkids
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: to hunt and fish in that same place that they learned. Yeah,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: so it seems like we're this is another one of
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: those issues that's in a little bit of a wait
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: and see kind of position. Um, is there anything that
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: that we should be thinking about on this front other
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: than just keeping tabs on it and seeing what opportunities arise. Yeah,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: I think just keep tabs on at this point. I mean,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: there's never gonna be a you know, yeah, sort of
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: hard legislation on thirty by thirty. This is an aspirational
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: goal and which is good and I think that you know,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: but let's just frame that goal in the right way
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: and make sure we're all working on the same page.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: And again, you know, just you sign up as you know,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: support of ours, and we'll you'll get a weekly email
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: from us and there be plenty of updates of where
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: we are in that thirty process and the extent that
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: there is actually a real stakeholder process that moves forward
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: to help define this. I mean, we want to be
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: engaged in that, which means we want you know, all
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: of you folks out there and be engaged in there too. Yeah, okay,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: I want to jump back to something we were talking
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: about the very beginning when you brought up um uh,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: some of the things that we're thinking now was a
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: hunting fishing fishing committee related to some of the climate
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: initiatives out there and the move that we're seeing happened
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: towards more and more renewable energy, which which seems like
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: a good thing in a lot of ways. Obviously as
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: you look at the different environmental impacts of energy consumption
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: and how it's derived. Um. And obviously wind and solar
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: now is becoming a lot more affordable. It seemingly it
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: seems like that's the direction things are gonna be heading
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: more and more. UM. But I live in an area
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: where a big wind farm was recently put in, and
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: so I've all of a sudden scene wind energy up
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: close and in person, in a experienced it kind of
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: a different kind of way, with new roads being built
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: and all these wood less you know, a hundred of
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: these things put up all around me, and roads all
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: over the place, and construction crews all over the place,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: and um, sixteen windmills within view of the house and
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: flashing lights and all of this, and it just kind
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: of gave me a different perspective from you know, hearing
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: about something in the news to then seeing it in person.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: And then you know, I also started seeing solar farms
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: popping up where a hundred acres of what used to
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: be a farm field, uh is now a hundred acres
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: with metal barred wire fencing all around it and nothing
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: but solar panels across the entire acreage. So what used
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: to be wildlife food and used by some amount of
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: wildlife is now on a wildlife desert. I was listening
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: to a podcast recently where they're talking about this, and
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: they were talking about, you know, if if the country
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: is going to shift towards renewable energy in the way
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: that folks are talking about, it would require solar farms
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: or wind farms. Uh, you know across tremendous, tremendous uh
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: scales of of of land, like states worth of square
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: miles covered with things like this. And the first thing
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: that came to my mind was, man, I get and
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: I appreciate the need to have cleaner ways to get
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: our energy, but how do we do this in a
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: way that doesn't create another biodiversity crisis? Like you were
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: just talking about, How do we do this in a
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: way that doesn't end up, you know, eliminating all the
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: open land we're trying to save with thirty by thirty initiatives? Um?
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: Is this something that's on you guys radar yet at all?
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: It just seems like something that we're going to have
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: to think a lot about. Yeah, you listen, development is development,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: and it doesn't matter whether it's a wind turbine or
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: an oil derrick. I mane if for example, of mule
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: deer is coming down. It's migration that sees it. It's
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: going to go around it. It's a you know, savee
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: grouse is going to move fleck from that area because
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: you know, they have been grown up. They've evolved over
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: millennia to avoid any tall structures because that's where the
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: raptors sit and pick them off. So if they see
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: some sort of tall structure out there, they're not going
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: to be anywhere near it. So I mean, there are
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: all these ripple effects on species from renewable development, the
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: same way there are with oil and gas. And I
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: think that you know, and then you mentioned the viewshad issues,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: you know, the roading. I mean, the notion that renewable
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: energy is it does not having an impacts is just
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: simply not wrong. I mean simply not right. And I
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: think that we need to be way smarter that how
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: we cite these And we we did a process back
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: with the Obaministration, probably a decade at least ago, where
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: we there are a whole bunch of proposals for new
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: solar developments around the West, and there was a lot
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: of pushbacks. So we convened the summit in Las Vegas
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: with the Department of the Interior, with our community, with
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: the States to talk about fighting and got a bunch
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: of those proposed areas taken off the board. Now you
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: can put a solar development out in a desert someplace
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: and it probably just do a whole lot of harm,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: and there are probably good places for it, and there's
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: always gonna be some sacrifice, you know, if we want
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: to have Anersey period. So I get that. You know,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: we've seen some research recently that you know, offshore wind
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: tends to be good for fish. Provide some underground structure,
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: underwater structure, It keeps the commercial fishing out and over
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: time you're gonna have stronger fish populations and done a
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: recreational fishing. So there are places where it's gonna be done.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: It can be done well. I mean, I just flew
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: in from a business trip on Friday, I guess Thursday,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: and you just fly into place like Washington or out
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: of a place like Atlanta, and you look at all
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: those enormous big boxes with nothing on top of the roofs.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, all of that ought to be solar. I mean,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: give me a break. And why are we developing virgin
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: land out there? We have all these areas that we
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: can incentivize to you know, you put solar in our
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: communities where we live, which also, by the way, decreases
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: transmission costs substantially. So I just think that we have
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: to do a better job. I mean, because the the
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: issue of the U site where you're seeing you know,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: people are seeing all over the place, and I think
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: we have to listen. I'm all for clean energy, but
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: I am not for you know, sort of spoiling places,
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: wild places, you know, at the altar of renewables. Yeah,
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's kind of like thrown out the baby
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: with the bathwater kind of deal. Like you're trying to
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: solve one problem that you're making a whole another one.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: So there's got to be some kind of better way
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: to look at it. Um plus, I mean, we we've
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: got to look at things like you know, small nuclear
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: and I'm sorry, but I mean that's probably as about
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: as clean as you're gonna get. And you know, I
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: think the technology may not be quite there yet, but
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: it will be, and we're gonna have to make some sacrifices.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: And I think things like that are definitely going to
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: be part of the mix down the road, and honestly,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: I think you probably have a lot more potential than
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: you know, vast wind farms every place. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be something to keep an eye on, that's
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: for sure. It seems like the winds of two shamelessly
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: use upon the winds of change or blowing on this front.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: And uh, it's it's something that I think if if
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: if there aren't some loud voices cautioning folks to do
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: this in the right way, we could end up being,
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: you know, just in as much trouble as it would
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: be otherwise. And and uh, I hope that's not the
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: direction things go. So but listen, we're also you know,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: because now that this is so much in the conversation,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: the technology is just going to improve, you know, from
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: battery storage to solar panels to new wind turban designs
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: you know that don't chop up bruds and bats. You know.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: I just think that, you know, technology is on our
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: side here and we just can't be you know, satisfying
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: before we're seeing right now, because it's got to get better. Yeah, yeah, definitely. So,
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: So moving on from fun time topic to fun topic,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: how about we talk about c w D oh yeah, yeah, Well,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: I know you guys are are placing an emphasis on
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: keeping chronic wasting disease in the conversation. It's one of
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: those things that I know deer hunters have. I think
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: there's been some fatigue which which which is unfortunate but
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: at the same time understandable and I honestly sometimes like gosh,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: I hate talking about CWD two um, but I know
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: this is something that we have to keep an eye on.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: Can you give us an update on on what you
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: guys are seeing on that front? What are some important
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: moving parts right now? So you know, as you know
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: and as a lot of your listeners know, there was
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: some c first popped up, there was pretty strong funding
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: from Congress that went out to the States for surveillance
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: and testing. A lot of that dried up around two
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: thousand and eleven, and so we've done as we tried
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: to get that funding stream reinstated so the states actually
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: have the ability to go out there and test animals
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: to find out the extent of it right now, and
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: you know, we've been blocked by the captive deer industry
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: along the way, which honestly prefer people not know where
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: it is. But we got five million and last year's bill,
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: we're gonna get more than that into this year's appropriations bill.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: We also been focusing on the research side because there's
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: still a lot of questions about transmission pathways and how
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: you can get rid of it. So we got about
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: a forty five million dollars tucked into the coronavirus Release
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: bill at the end of last year for research into
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: wildlife human disease interaction. And obviously part of the focus
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: of that is things like bats and coronavirus, but you
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: know it's got it's also going to be used for
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: c t b D research too, because you know, if
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: CDBD ever does jump from wildlife to humans, you know
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: it will be fatal. I mean, it would be still
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: the ocup disease, the bad cow disease, and we can't
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: have that happening because you know, we've the place we've
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: really seen growth in the hunting industry in the last
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: decade has been in that whole you know, the food,
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: the side of it, and people wanting to harvest their own, clean,
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: non GMO, locally sourced protein. And if people all of
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: a sudden start thinking it's not going to be safe,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: the venison. Then it will change hunting as we know
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: it without any question. So we just think there has
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: to be a big investment in this, and you know,
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: folks like Sender Martin Heinrich. We'll be proposing legislation shortly
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: that will dramatically increase funding for surveillance and testing going
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: out to the states. We think it'll be about that
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: fifty million dollar range is what we need. I mean,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: the scary thing is that you know, basically nobody has
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: been in a surveillance to testing over the last year
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: because coronavirus, so we don't know what's happened, you know
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: where it's spread, and I think a lot of states
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: honestly are afraid to look because you know where they
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: figured they haven't had in the past. You know they
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: are wondering if they do have it now. So we
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: got to get past that. We need good data. We
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: need hunters to be a part of the solution. So
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: if we have the state phishing game agencies, we got
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: knocked down a population in someplace, you know we're the
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: best people to do that, not sharpshooters. So get out there,
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: work with your state phishing game agencies. But you know
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: what we're really focusing on right now is you know,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: the research is surveillance and testing funds from the States,
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: and then we also want to make sure that the
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: Department of Agriculture, you know, gets on top of the
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: herd certification program, which right now I think, just give us,
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: really you captive deer industry and others, you know, fall
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: sensor security, because it just keeps popping up and he's hertified,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: is certified, you know, CBD free facilities and mesticos. They're
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: moving deer around all the time. So I would love
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: to see a moratorium on the interstate movement of deer,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: you know, until we have a much better handle on
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: transmission pathways on you know, the efficacy of the her
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: certification program. Um. But you know, the easiest way for
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: this thing to spread is in the back of a truck. Yeah.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: And it seems like you said that there's a lot
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: left to be desired as far as the processes for
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: for monitoring these places and regulating these places in a
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: smart way. So unfortunately, it just seems like this has
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: been something we've been banging our heads against the wall
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: on for a long time now. Um And and maybe
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: it is as simple as as funding and hopefully having
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: one of these technological breakthroughs that eventually gives us insight
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: into what's a real long term solution. But it seems
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: like right now it's it's monitor slow the spread and
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: hope for for something good to come down the road. Right, Yeah,
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: that's what it is, and it's it will travel very slowly,
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: you know, if nature has its own way. I mean,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: you know, not quickly at all. I mean the play
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: of the travels is when you know you're moving live
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: der around for the cap facilities. It travels when you
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: whack a white tail and you throw in the back
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: of your truck and you drive three states over and
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: processes back at home. I mean, those are the things
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: we can't be doing anymore. And you know that's that
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: may change our lives a little bit and maybe more
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: of pain in the s, but you know, for the
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: to keep enjoying what we're enjoying is well worth that sacrifice.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: I also think that it's time for the hunting community
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: and your listeners and Steve's you know, we just I mean,
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: the obsession with bigger and bigger racks, it's going to
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: kill hunting eventually. I mean, to the extent that you know,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: that is what it's driving the shooting facilities were some
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: jackass can fly in from Wall Street and shoot a
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: three inch deer that afternoon and have it on us
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: wall in a week. Yeah, that's not hunting, and you
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: can't you know, sort of. I mean, I think our
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: community needs to push back hard against that sort of
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: stuff and dry up the demand. But these can hunts. Yeah,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: they're not helping the cause. And in a number of
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: different ways there they're punching holes in the boat, that's
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah, and that's just not what hunts about.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's and it's you know, if you're an outsider,
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: your skeptical hunting in the first place, and this is
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: what you see, I mean, you're not gonna you're not
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: going to accept that. No. No, it sheds shines a
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: horrible light on on what hunting is and and leads
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: to a lot of misperceptions and uh causes causes a
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: lot of trouble. I'm I'm right there within that, yep.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: So do you have any more really fun topics like
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: this that we should cover or or is there anything
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: that you are actually optimistic about that we should that
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: we should close on. You know, I think I've talked
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: about the things I'm optimistic about. I mean, I actually,
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm always optimistic because I always think we
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: can do better. And I think that if you think
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: about the last year silver lining coronavirus, is that a
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: lot of people who had either left the sport or
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: would never tried it got back in hunting and fishing.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: Me and the hunting numbers look like it was a
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: five plus growth from and that is huge. Fishing's going
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: to be at least ten and uh, you know that
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: is a ton of new folks in and yeah, some
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: people complain that it's more crowding, but listen, I mean
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: this is a good thing. I mean they're paying into
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: the conservation system. There are the future stewards of these resources.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: There are the folks who were gonna right to Congress
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: and asked that, you know, conservation be maintained. So you know,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: I'm excited about how do we convert you know, all
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: these new hunters and anglers into conservations. And uh, you
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: know that is you know, we've talked with our federal
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: you know, our corporate partners about you know, we had
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: Chris Mets, the CEO of Vista which is Federal, and
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: Rammington Ammunition and a bunch of other outdoor brands. You know,
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: he was talking about that. We had Dave bullthis the
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: president of Pure Fishing, you know, in the same call,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: talking about how they're going to try to maintain that
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: growth in the fishing side. But that's exciting and that's fun,
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: and that's you know, after years of just seeing these
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: declining numbers, you know, this is you know, I think
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: it's pretty cool and I think it's something else toinet
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: excited about. Yeah, that that is, like you said that,
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: the silver lining and definitely an opportunity. I mean, that's
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: and it's a thing that's probably I don't know. It
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: seems like this is a once in the generation kind
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: of up swell that we have here that we either
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: take advantage of or or we let recede back into
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: the past. So so hopefully it's something where we can
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: help them. You know, remember, you know how hard it
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: is to get into this sport if you're not from
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: you know, if you didn't your father didn't show you
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: how to do it, or your mom didn't show you.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, so I think it's coming on
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: all of us to embrace these new hunters and anglers, said,
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: welcome them in. You teach him the ethics, teach them
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: the proper way to do things, teach them about you know,
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: if you see somebody's truck there and don't go into
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: that same area, goes someplace else. You know, all these
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: things that they may not know on their own, but
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: you know, they're not going to learn unless we embrace
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: them and teach them. Yeah, yeah, very true. So so
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: with for folks listening who have maybe not traditionally dove
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: into the advocacy or conservation related things, but they were
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: curious enough to listen to this one because they want
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: to know what's going on. Maybe it's even some of
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: these new hunters or new anglers who have gotten interest
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: in trying it out, and so they're listening to this
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: and they're kind of realizing that, Wow, there's a lot
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: of things going on around me that are impacting whether
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: or not we can hunt or fish, or whether there's
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: places to hunt and fish and critters out there. For
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: somebody like that who, now, you know, kind of wants
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: to take another step, not in take an action, but
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: in learning. Are there any books, books, or films or
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: documentaries there anything out there that has inspired you or
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: you might suggest folks check out if they want to
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: kind of broaden the horizons on these types of topics. Well,
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, this you and I have
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: not talked about this. This is not a shameless plug,
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: but they ought to read your book, you know, That
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: Wild Country, which really talks about, you know, sort of
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: the public land experience, which you know, a lot of
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: hunting and fishing in this country takes place on. And
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: I think you've made it accessible in that book and
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: something that people can learn a lot from and be
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: inspired from you. So I think that's you know, one place.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: And but even go back to the early stuff. I mean,
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: you know, a Sand County Albanic all the Leopold is
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: you know, reads as relevant today as it did back
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: in the ninety and it is, you know, a phenomenal
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: book about you know, the ethics of land and hunting.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: And I just know I can't recommend that, you know, yeah,
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: heavily enough. Go back and read a biography of Theodore Roosevelt,
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: one of the Morriss biographies to talk about, you know,
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: building that public land network, among other things. Read Tim
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: Egan's The Big Burn you know that really talks about
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: you know, that period in the early nineteen hundreds when
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: the forest fires were sweeping and it was you know,
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: the Forest Service and our public lands really on a
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: knife edge. And you know that, you know, the experiences
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: from that whole catastrophe really strengthened what is now our
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: public land network. So I just think there's a ton
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: of really interesting stuff out there in our community, um,
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: that you know, folks can look at and learn more about.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: And I'm only scratching the surface, but you have your
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: listeners and your comment section recommend their favorites. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a whole bunch I have not read.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of good ones out there, that's for sure. Um. Okay.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: Next kind of final thing then, would be of all
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: the things we talked about, We've talked about a lot
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: of far ranging issues or ide is that folks could
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: be you know, possibly taking action on, thinking about or
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: trying to help move the needle on what what's your
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: top priority of everything we've talked about. If you want
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: to leave our listeners with one thing that they should
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: do something about right now, one action they should take,
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: what would that be way in a CWD. I mean,
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: you know that is you know, as as a crisis
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: right now. We need funding for surveillance and testing. We
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: need to do the research. We need to stop the
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: spread of this thing because the consequences if it does
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: jump to humans are catastrophic. Um. You know that is
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: you know, the short term one. I mean, it's not
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: too difficult, not what we need to do. But then
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: you know, longer term, I mean it's you know, we
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: have a unique system in this country and engage I
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: mean engaged you know in your local you know, national
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: forest and this planning rule, Engage in federal legislation. You know,
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: there are a multiple ways you can engage in things
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: that make a difference hunting and fishing this country, and
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of them are not terribly sexy. Um. But
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: you know, if we don't we as hunters and anglers,
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: don't stand up and support this system and maintain it,
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: it's not going to be there in the future. Very
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: very true. And we're awfully lucky that other people did
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: that in the past and now we get to benefit
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: from us. So so I'm right there where you went.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: We need to keep passing on forward. If if people
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: want to, if people want to connect with what you
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: guys are doing over the RCP. Can you give us
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: a scoop on where to find that? Should we sign
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: up for the newsletter other things like that too, Yeah, definitely. Um.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: You know, sign up is free. To be a supporter.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: You can throw some money at us. You get a
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: hat or or vis Humulos rod or Browning shotgun, depending
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: on how much money you want to throw us. Um.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: But if you just sign up as a supporter, you
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: will get a weekly newsletter, you will get updates on things,
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: you'll get alerts us to want something. If you identify
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: what you're interested in, the things you care about are
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: popping up. But then also you know support, you know,
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: our variety of partner groups. You know, support your local physicists,
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: Rubber Chapter, National Deer Association, Yeah, the Old Deer Foundation,
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: you know whatever it is, because those groups do amazing
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: work on the ground. But if you want to find
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: out more about us, you can go to www dot
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: TRCP dot org. And I think it's pretty easy to
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: navigate our site and enjoy. Yeah, I'll I'll laugh out
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: a little plug here since you plugged my book so nicely.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: I absolutely would recommend folks listening to sign up for
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: that newsletter and become a supporter. It really is. You know,
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: one of the biggest challenges with being able to engage
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: on a lot of these wildlife and habitat related issues
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: is just keeping track of the million different things out
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: there that are happening. And if if you're not proactive
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: about keeping tabs and what's happening with our public lands
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: or wildlife, our conservation related issues, it's really easy for
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff to just happen and you
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: never know it. But you guys do as good of
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: a job as just about any as far as keeping
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: you know, us up to date on important things going on.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: You've got a lot of great articles on the website
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: that provide updates on current issues, on legislation, on priorities
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: that we should be you know, talking to our representatives
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: about different stuff like that. I mean, it's it's really
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: been a great resource for me. So I can't I
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: can't recommend it enough. Um, and I just I just
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: want to thank you with for the great work that
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: you and your your team is doing. I I appreciate it,
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: and I appreciate your time here today. Hey listen, I
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: know we'd all rather be talking about, you know, patterning
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: white tales and things like that, but every now and
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: then we gotta gotta make sure we have that opportunity
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: of the future. So thank you for raising the issues.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: Absolutely what. I appreciate your time. Let's do this again,
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: all right, sounds great, Mark, Thank you, and that's gonna
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: do it. Thank you all for tuning in. Appreciate you listening,
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: Appreciate you being a part of this awesome hunting fishing
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: family we have. Thanks for taking action when you can,
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: for speaking up for wild places and wild things, and
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: uh for being a deer hunter, because being a deer
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: hunter is a pretty damn cool thing to be. I
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: certainly am proud to be one, proud that it's my lifestyle.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: And uh I'm looking forward to getting out there and
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: seeing some big velvet bucks here and just a matter
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: of weeks, probably weeks or months by the time this
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: suckers out. So until then, until next time, thank you,
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: and stay wired to hunt.