Latest / DISGRACELAND / Bonus Episode: The Daytona 500, AC/DC, and Filmmaker Tiller Russell Talks the Night Stalker

Transcript

Bonus Episode: The Daytona 500, AC/DC, and Filmmaker Tiller Russell Talks the Night Stalker · DISGRACELAND

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hey, discos, need a little more Disgraceland in your life,
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: just to touch to get you through. Yeah, me too.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is the podcast that comes after the podcast. Welcome
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: to Disgraceland, the after Party. Welcome to the Disgraceland bonus episode,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: a little thing we like to call the after party.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: This is the show after the show, the party after
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: the party, the bridge to get you from one full
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: episode of Disgraceland to the other, the backyard to dig
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: into the dirt. On this episode, we are talking about
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: the Daytona five hundred ac DC, the night Stalker, Richard Ramirez,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: and we are talking with Tiller Russell, acclaimed filmmaker and
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: director of the hit Netflix series The night Stalker. We're
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: talking to Tiller about Richard Ramirez and AC and EC.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: So stay tuned for that interview. And of course you've
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: got your calls, your texts, your dms, me reading the
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: phone book, and a whole lot of rosie. All right,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: disc goes, let's get into it, all right, what is shaking?
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: I'm recording this way late on Tuesday morning. I just
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: got home, flew back from flew back late from Daytona, Florida.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: My buddy Cam and I were at the Daytona five hundred,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: my first five hundred. We were guests of seven time
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: champion in All Round class act Jimmy Johnson, the goat, Nascar,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: the sport. It's got a tox to me. I had
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: an incredible time. I got to meet and spend time
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: with a couple of different drivers, hang out with some
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: folks from NASCAR as well as with the fans. What
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: an incredible bunch of people, good hearted, nice and amazing community.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Everybody was so nice and welcoming and just an awesome event.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: My head is still spinning, all right, What else is
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: going on? Season eleven of Disgraceland is among us. More
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: on that in a bit. Today's after party here is
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: going to be a little different. As I mentioned at
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: the top of the show, this episode features an interview
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: with the claimed filmmaker Tiller Russell. Among many great films,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Tiller is the director of the smash Netflix hit night
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Stalker from a couple of years ago, and I wanted
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: to talk to Tiller on this bonus episode because obviously,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: the latest episode of Disgraceland on ACDC is largely about
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: the night Stalker Richard Ramirez. But before we get to Tiller.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: I want to get into some of your calls, your
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: texts and your dms. As you know, you can call
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: me six one seven nine zero six six six three
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: eight like Monica from Dallas here.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Hey Jake, this is Monica from Dallas. What's upon a time?
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Many many many moons ago? I knew one of the
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: roadies for John Popper and Blues Traveler, and he told
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: me lots of crazy stories. So I was curious that
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: if you would do an episode on, you know, Blue
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Traveler and maybe go into some of those stories that
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: that guy was just completely bullshitting me or a liar
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: or whatever, or if Blue Traveler and John Popper and
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: all those guy cats for something interesting to maybe do
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: an episode on. Really love the show. I love what
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: you're doing and keep at it. Thanks so much.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Bye, Thanks for the call, Monica. I gotta admit I
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: don't know anything about Blues Traveler, but I'm down to
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: check it out and will now based on your recommendation,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: So thank you. All Right, let's check out what Leon
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: from the seven to one six has to say.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Great Leon from Buffalo, New York, Hey, Man, love your podcast.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: Can't wait for.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: The ACDC episode.
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: Man, I've been waiting and waiting and waiting for it.
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: I'm over the road truck driver. I go from Buffalo
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: to Boston, mass twice a week, and all you do
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: is listen to your two podcasts.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Love it Man, keep it growing Later, Leon, this is
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: your lucky week man. The ACDC episode was just released,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: and of course we are discussing it in this bonus
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: episode with Tiller Russell guys six one seven nine zero
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: six six six three eight. To have your dreams come true,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: like Leon, here, call me text me six one seven
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: nine zero six six six three eight. All right, let's
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: do some texts from the five to one zero. Hey, Jake,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: love the pod. Been listening since season one, episode one.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Even still when one of your episodes drops, it goes
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: straight to the top of the queue. Anyway, here's my question.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: What's better NASCAR, IndyCar or F one? Cheers Brother Craig
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: from sam Mateo, who has become obsessed with F one
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: in recent years. That's what he says, Sir Craig Man,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: I gotta go Nascar. I've been to uh and I've
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: been to one F one race. I've been to I've
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: been to that I just mentioned went to the Daytona
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: five hundred. The experiences are totally different. It's a completely
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: different style of racing. And there's something about the aggression
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: of NASCAR and sort of there's this weird connection to
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: rock and roll, an Americana and this sort of badass, rebel,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: transgressive culture that I'm clearly fascinated with. So I got
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: to go Nascar. I am into f one, I'll always
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: be into both. I think Indie IndyCar I've never messed
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: with at all, but I'm down to check that out.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: And I think just all racing, all driving drivers just
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: fascinate me. They put their their lives on the line
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: in this way that I said is to me, it's
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: reminiscent to what rock stars do. And I haven't quite
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: figured out how to articulate that, but I will. Thanks
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: for the text, Craig, appreciate it. Okay. From the two
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: to one three, Ah, Chelsea, Chelsea Stardust, the director Chelsea
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: start us look her up, Hey, Jake, Chelsea started us here.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: I hope you're having a great Friday, loving the new season.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Huge congrats. I had a bunch of fun things I
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: wanted to share with you, so I ended up sending
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: an email sparing you a lot long winded voicemail some
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: things I think of all people with DIG who work
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: for you would appreciate, enjoy, and keep up the incredible work.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Have a great weekend. Thank you, Chelsea. I will check
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: out that email report back on the next after party.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Let's see what we get here for some other texts.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: All right from the seven O Four's up, Jake, it's
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Christina in North Carolina. So I am super excited on
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Otis Redding. That needs to be aired asap. Well, Christina,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Otis Redding is coming quick. I think it's we got
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Mac Miller next, and then I think it's Otis after that.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: I could be wrong, though, but I think that's what
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: we're doing. And when she goes on to say I
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: was hoping to hear some about Shlino Sanchez and Valentine Elizalde,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: I'm saying that wrong. I know I'm pronouncing that wrong.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: I apologize. I know this is not your wheelhouse, but
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: these stories are great. Chelino played Coachella in nineteen ninety
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: two and there was total mayhem. He was the original
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Colurido singer and was killed by the Narcos. Whoa stand
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: away from this one. Thanks thanks for the uh tip there, Christina,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: But I don't mess with the narcos. Keep keep listening
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: and you're gonna get that otis writing soon. Let's go on.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: We'll do another text here. What do we got? All right?
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: From the eight one seven? Hey Jake, Max from Texas here,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: real happy you're re releasing all the old episodes. They
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: get me through the day at work restoring classic cars,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: and keep up the excellent work. And my suggestion is
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: an episode or two on Elvis. Hear me out. I
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: know you said back in season one or two that
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: when the Elvis episodes come out, then you're hanging it up.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: But with the movie coming out, Lisa's unfortunate passing, and
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: everything going on with the family, I don't think there's
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: a better time than now. Thanks man, TCB. Well, Max,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: you do have a point. I'm not gonna lie. I
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: thought about it, man, but I'm saving the Elvis stuff
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: until I leave the building. It's gonna be a while.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be a season, hopefully in the
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: far off, far distant future. All Right, So those are
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: some texts. Let me get to some some social media
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: direct messages and I'll respond to those. Here we go,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: all right. Jason rush Forth on Instagram writes, Yo, Jake,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: how is Daytona? You have to watch uppedy awesome documentary
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: about Willie t Ribbs, one of the first and for
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: sure the most successful black racing drivers of all time,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: and all the bullshit he endured and overcame, He's still
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: around and is a total character and a complete badass
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: of a driver, entertaining af J from the two five
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: three Jay hit me on Instagram. Thanks Jason or Jay
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: as as you call yourself. This sounds amazing. I'm definitely
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: gonna check this out. I'm just consuming all types of
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: NASCAR stuff right now, so thanks for the tip. I
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: appreciate it. I will report back after I watch that.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Let's see who else we get here. We'll do another one.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: This is Aaron, she writes. She sends this photo of
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: this adorable dog. I don't know what this dog is.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: I wish you guys could see it. It looks like
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: some type of terrier mix. It's white with this super
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: cute black spot over its. You know what it looks like.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: It looks like the dog from our gang, Spanky and Alfalfa. Anyways,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Let's see what she says here. Aaron says, this little
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: man is our pup named Lemmy. Yes for the late
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: and great. Let me kill my sister. Sorry, let me
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: kill myster. Even as an ace of spades caller he does.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: This dog is awesome. Do you have any Lemmy episodes
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: that I may have missed? Also, i'd love an Arrowsmith episode.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: My husband and I saw them in concert this past
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: summer and they still rock and I think it may
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: have been the best I've seen or tied with Elton
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: John Billy Joel dueling pianos at Gillette years ago. Hey,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: just so you know, Aaron, thanks for writing, and we do.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: We got an Arrowsmith episode. It's coming out. It's done,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: I recorded it. It's coming out next season, so this
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: year a couple months. Seasons come by quicker now because
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: we're going week to week, so that will be here
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: in a matter of a few months, our Arrowsmith episode.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: All right, let me see here. I got the h
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: I got an email I want to want to read here.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: This is this is from if I'm saying this right,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Petiri P P E T T E ri I P
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: subject fifty cent melotron Hi Jake, I don't know how
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: many Finish listeners you have, I'm one at least, and
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: how many of them mentioned this? But your melotron clip
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: on top of the recent fifty cent episode sounds eerily
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: similar to an old Finnish schlager, and it's pronounced. I
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: don't know how it's pronounced, but the old Finnish schlager.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know what a schlager is. A song Coultaan
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Norris roughly translates to golden youth. I guess all music
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: has been written by now and we go to the
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: second round. Great, great podcast man. I've been listening since
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: the beginning. Thanks for your amazing work. Regards Petiri. I
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: had no idea about the similarities between the melotron loop
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: and that schlager, the finished schlager. I also have no
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: idea where a schlager is. It sounds dirty, but I
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: want to find out. Anyways, Thanks for listening, man, Thanks
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: for listening in Finland. I'm stoked, just you know, yeah,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: right to us, keep writing to us from Finland.
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: All right, back in a flash.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, guys, here's my conversation with Tilla Russell again, the
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: great filmmaker, creator of Netflix's Night Stalker on Richard Ramirez, who,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: like I said, we feature heavily in our current ACDC
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: episode Here you Go. Hope you dig it? Tiller, how
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: are you?
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: I'm doing great, brother. How you doing?
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: I'm doing good? Okay, So everyone knows Tiller Russell. You're
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: an incredible filmmaker, creator of the upcoming Netflix documentary series
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Waco American Apocalypse, as well as a director of Operation
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Odessa and my favorite The Seven to Five. You also
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: directed the hit Netflix series Nightstalker, which is why we're
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: talking today. Tiller, tell me what brought you to Richard Ramirez?
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Number one? Number two? How long did you live in
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: his world while you were making night Stalker? And how
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: did you deal with all of that darkness?
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: Great set of questions. So, Richard Ramirez in some sense
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: walked into my life when I was writing for a
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: TV show and a good buddy of mine who ended
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: up being my partner on it, Tim Walsh, came in
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: and he's like, hey, man, I know the cops that
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: worked the night Stalker case, and I think there's this
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: unbelievable story to be told in series to be made
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: about it. Do you want to go meet these guys
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: and I'll give you a sort of odd confession, which
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: is I actually normally hate serial killer shit and like
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: run from it, like the plague. And so I was
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: a little bit reluctant when he had said that, but
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: he's like, these dudes are pretty fascinating, and so I
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: went and and I try to never miss a meeting
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: that's at an interesting spot. So, you know, we roll
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: to this like cop bar and I go and sit
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: down with these guys, and literally, as they start to
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: tell the story of what it was like that hot,
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: bloody summer kind of investigating this series of murders that
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: began to strike Los Angeles. I'm looking at him and
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: they're sitting in these like cracked red vinyl booths. It
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: almost looked like it was out of time. And as
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: they started to talk, I literally could envision what the
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: series might be in my mind. And so from there
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: once it kind of like grabbed hold of me and
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: suck it's you know, sunk its hooks into my consciousness.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: I just I got dragged along for the ride.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's amazing. That's amazing. You can kind of see it.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: You're you know, you're up close with these guys and
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: these cops are the characters in the in the series. Now,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: these were the two guys, right, Like one was sort
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: of the the newbie and the other was sort of
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: the seasoned veteran who was at the not the Green
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: River killer, the Gary Ridge.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: It was a hillside strangler, hillside strangler. Yeah, And it
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: was this like weird, unlikely pairing of these cops, Frank Sealerno,
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: who was this old school, kind of iconic legend of
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: the Sheriff's Department Homicide Division and being paired with this,
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: you know, young rookie kind of up and comer Gil Correo,
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: and that dynamic between the two of them was what
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: fascinated me. And then the unexpected vulnerability, particularly of the
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: younger guy. But can I throw it back to you, Jake,
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: which is one of the things that I so love
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: about what you do and that I love about this
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: new episode is your ability to drop into these different perspectives,
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: like as you were saying, I was anchored in the
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: cops perspective by and large, or the victim's perspective, and
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: what I think so like beautiful and elegant and frankly,
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: I'm so terribly jealous of to be real, is your
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: ability to drop into all these voices and you know,
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: whether it's Bond Scot's you know, head and World or whatever,
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: or whether it's dropping into Richard Ramirez. How the hell
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: do you do that? Like, what's the what's the what's
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: the secret? Sauce? Back at you? You know, back at you.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Well, first of all, thank you. Any compliment from you
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: is is just just I'm blown away. So I want
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: nothing but admiration for the work you do, so that
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: means a lot. But to answer your question, I just
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: it's not it's not something that style of writing is
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: not something I actually planned to do. I think it's
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: just I think it's a combination of two things. I
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: think one it's you know you do you do all
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: this research and you get it. You you immerse yourself in it,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: and you sort of you put yourself in the heads
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: of these people, and I try I have this rule
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: where I never try to express anything from the point
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: of view of any of these subjects, whether they're the
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: antagonist or the protagonist, that that does not align with
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: the truth of the story. And the second part of
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: that is it's a much simpler answer. It's just James
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Elroy I think I just reads James Elroy growing up
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: that I just developed this sort of accidental style and
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: it's not a complete Elroy rip, but it's certainly it's certainly.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: It's a strong it's a strong influence, and I'm glad
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: that you reference that because I like hear it and
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: feel it, and I'm an Elroy nut too, you know,
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: like when we were, when we're When you're making these
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: things that kind of like exist in a particular genre,
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: you're always acutely aware of, you know, your predecessors in
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: some way or another and wanting to, you know, aspiring
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: to hopefully fit into some kind of canon. And you know,
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: in the case of Knightstalker, it's like Dashell Hammett and
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: Raymond Chandler and you know, all the way through through
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: el Roy and beyond. But there's this, there's this kind
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: of canon of influences. I think that looms over anything.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: And I'm not at all surprised to hear that Elroy
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: looms so large for you because you have that same
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: kind of ratitat tat rhythm and that ability to then
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: like toggle really sharply between perspectives, and it's one of
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: the things you know I've told you this before, but
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: I'm kind of so jealous of what you do oftentimes,
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: you know, in in documentaries, what's so fascinating about it is,
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: it's this passport to other people's lives, right, these these
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: these like most vivid, sometimes horrifying, sometimes magnificent experiences of
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: their lives. And like I think of my job as
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: a sculptor trying to kind of capture what it is,
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: what that experience was that for them in human terms,
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: in an emotional and visceral sense. But what I love
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: about the freedom of what you do, which also you
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: see in you know, I think the work that you're
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: doing and in in you know, your colleagues and contemporaries,
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: in podcasting, and the work that's being done in comic
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: books and graphic novels is the most cutting edge an
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: original because the boundaries are still porous in terms of
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: and the rules are not codified. And every time I
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: you know, clock in which I do, you know frequently
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: with your work, I'm so I guess fascinated by an
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: envious of the methodology and that ability to do it,
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: and you do it so beautifully, and I love the
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: way you did it in the in this a CDC episode.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you man. It's it's a strange, new new world.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: It's a new medium and there there aren't any real rules,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: and I didn't I didn't have any guardrails when I started.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: You know, I also didn't know what the hell I
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: was doing, and I had to kind of find my
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: own way through it to do it and take all
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: those influences that I had and sort of, you know,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: create this this thing. So now when I when I
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: come across something like like I saw your series and
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh man, this is hot. I saw
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: that ac DC hat like, this is ac DC story
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: I want to tell because I always thought that Richard
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Ramirez and Bond Scott bared a similar resemblance and that
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Ramirez was sort of, I mean, everyone knows who knows
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: this the serial killer stuff, that he was sort of
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: like the rock star serial killer. He had all those
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: groupies in court YEP. At one point he shows up
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: and he's wearing sunglasses in a suit and he's really
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: kind of putting it on. And then I'm like, well,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: I don't want to tell just the the v H
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: one behind the music, a CDC story that's been told before,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: so what kind of what kind of correlation can I
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: make between bon Scott and Richard Ramirez? And it turns out,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: you know, we all laugh at I actually got a
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: lot of shit, not a lot. I got a little
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: bit of shit from this today from someone on on
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: social media. Not that I read my mentions, slash. I
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: do read my mentions, but don't tell anyone who said that,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: you know, just scoffing at the fact that that the
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: a c DC inspired a serial killer. But the truth
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: of the matter is they did inspire a serial killer.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: Well well, and what's so? Yeah, I think what's kind
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: of increasingly weird about it? And you see it, you know,
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: kind of acutely in all the social media today in
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: which we're present. But really you have all of these
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: swirling cultural influences that are almost like waves crashing together
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: and are impacting and influencing one another. I mean, one
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: of the weird things about Ramirez was he, you know,
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: when he finally sat down, there's there's all these stories,
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: you know that that didn't end up making it into
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: the series. But when he finally sat down with those
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: cops who you know, who are you investigating him through
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: that summer, he tells them that he well, they actually
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: sit down and watch the mini series that was made
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: of them at the time, and they're all literally watching
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: The night Stalker made for TV movie together. But he
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: tells them in the course of the kind of aftermath
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: of this before the trial, that he was a student
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: of all the other serial kill that had gone before him,
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: and not only that, but that he had been very
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: closely watching Frank Sealerno as the guy who had captured
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: the Hillside strangler. And so I guess the point that
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: I'm making is there is this cultural continuum where it's
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: you know, rock stars are spilling into the lives of
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: serial killers. Serial killers are spinning and is spilling into
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: the lives of rock stars. And I think what I
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: love about Disgraceland is you're mapping the weird boundaries and
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: crossovers of that. And it's why one of these days
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: you and I have to, you know, figure out how
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: we're going to crack the adaptation of it, because I
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: think it's so there is this gap in the media landscape,
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: Like whatever the shortcomings of VH one behind the Music were,
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: that show ran forever and it was kind of endlessly
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: fascinating because you know, you own the records, you know,
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: you have the posters in your room or whatever. But
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: there's lore and there's this mythology and that's all behind it.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: And I think that's what you do so well. It's
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: kind of telling both the mythology but also very meticulously
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: rooted in the journalism and the facts behind it. And
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: it's this very fascinating blend of those two that I
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: that I think you is so fascinating what you do,
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: you know, not just in Disgraceland and all your work,
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: but so beautifully in Disgraceland.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Thanks man, And I mean shit, I love behind the music.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: I was a junkie for growing up. But you know,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: that's a style that's been done, and you know, there's honestly,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of people doing that in this medium
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: to some degree, and it's just not what interests me.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: So this sort of wacko thing that I redd is
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: what interests me, and thank god it works. You know,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: you talk about influences, and we've talked about a CDC
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: influencing Richard Ramirez. We've never really we've talked a lot
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: sort of offline, you know, we've I've interviewed you before
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: and but we've talked on the phone and stuff about
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: you know, what books were reading, what movies were watching.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: We've never really talked about what what music you you
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: came up with, what were what were you listening to
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: when you in your formative years, when you were when
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: you're falling in love with with filmmaking.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: That's really interesting, you know, I was a kid in
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: Dallas with no connections, like it seemed like a dream
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: that I would ever actually one day be able to
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: make something. So I was listening, you know, in the
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: like late eighties, I'm listening to the as like a
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: skater kid, the kind of early like skater punk rock stuff.
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: And then in the nineties, which is you know, I
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: think a lot of us default to that period in
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: time when you're coming of age, you know, going from
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: being a kid to being a young man or a
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: young woman, a young woman. And so for me, the
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: soundtrack of the nineties and all like all corners of it,
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: I think is something that I gravitate to a lot.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: Although my taste in music is super weird and eclectic,
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: and what I do is I'm constantly mining for I think,
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: new influences. So I read the Chuck Klosterman book The Nineties,
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: which I don't know if you read that, if you haven't, Yeah,
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: it's it's and it's it's amazing because what he does
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: in that book is he talks about and it's like
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: the soundtrack of you know, our lives, those of us
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: that were kind of you know, alive in young people then,
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: whether it's the you know, story of Nirvana or whatever else,
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: but like along with the soundtrack of you know, the
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: music that defined us, he also kind of maps how
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: we go from this analog era to the digital era,
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: which is something that only those of us, you know
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: of roughly, this generation really experienced both side of you know,
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: not both sides of like for everybody that's born after
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: kind of the advent of the internet, it's hard to
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: imagine like going to a record store and paying you know,
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: eleven dollars for a CD that you can only play,
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: you know, in an instrument, you know, in a in
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: a machine that plays CDs and actually spending that much
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: money on it. But whether it's you know, buying the
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: early Guns and Roses records or waiting for use your
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: Illusion to come out or whatever it was, that was
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: such a huge thing for us whereas now everything is
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: at our fingertips and that ability to be like, Okay,
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: I want to go deep clash today and like, you know,
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: look at the weird B sides and you know, experience
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: the like reggae era and influence of that. You can
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: it's everything is so much more accessible that it's made
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: my taste I think, I mean everybody's, but certainly mine
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: much more eclectic, where I'm like, okay, I want to
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: go on a trip here and just go you know,
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: deep said Barrett or you know, like I'll listen to
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: you know, your sid Barrett episod and be like, okay,
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: I'm going early Floyd and like deep bear it and
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: just like grooving out to that. But I kind of
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: followed the trails wherever it comes. You know, I'll hear
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: a song, you know, hear a hip hop song in
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: a new movie, and that'll send me off down that
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: rabbit hole. So it's become broad and eclectic.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: I can't tell which era is better. I really can't.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: I can't. You know, I hear you completely and it
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: was harder to discover stuff. I can't tell now though,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: if it's if it's me romanticizing my youth and thinking
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: that it meant more because we had to work harder
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: for the discovery of it, and now the discovery is
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: it's so much easier. It's just like, you know, if
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: I wanted to see Taxi Driver when I was eighteen, Yeah,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: get on a bus, go to Wooster to my friend's
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: apartment who lived near the cool video store, because I
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: didn't even live near a video in a town where
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: they had a video store that would have Taxi Driver,
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And and you know, convinced
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: the cool kid to show it to me, and it
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: was like this this whole process you had to go to.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Now it's you know, you just go to YouTube and
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: you'll get Taxi Driver clips and maybe as a young kid,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: you're not even gonna sit down and watch the whole
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: film because you've seen it in all these clips. I
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: I don't it just well, I think I think there's
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: joys to both sides of it, right. I don't think
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: it's an either or thing. I think it's a both
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: and uh in terms of for those of us that
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: experience that, like I loved the video store, like my
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: I lied to get a job in the video store,
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: and you know, faking my I got a fake ID
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: to go to work in a video store because I
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: was like that crazy for it, because I was like, Okay,
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna finally get to rent Faces of Death when
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: they're not looking or whatever the hell it is.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: So so so so there was that joy to it
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: of the journey and the scrape and and you know,
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: I don't smoke weed anymore, but I remember like when
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: I did, there was that like the fun of like
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: going to like how are you going to score like
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: quarterback of weed. Now it's like you go to the
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: weed store and you get anything on Earth, or you
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: go to the you know, you go to Spotify and
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: you get anything you can think of. And I think
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: there's good and bad to both sides of those. But
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: I do miss the tactile right, Like I miss you know,
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: holding the holding the I remember the VHS cases and
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: like I could go to the video store and just
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: read the backs of movies and not even rent anything
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: and have a totally satisfying experience. Whereas you know, you
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: click on like you know, Netflix today and you're like
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: you're looking for forty five minutes to decide what to
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: watch and Finally, forty five minutes later, I'm like, dude,
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: I'm too tired. I'm not I'm going to read a
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: book instead.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, I did the worst sin ever man I
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: was in. I was in Orlando a couple of days
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: ago because I had to go to the airport, is
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: the only reason I was in Orlando. But I had
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: a lot of time to kill. So I found like,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: I was like, all right, I'm going to find I'm
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: going to google like the coolest coffee shop I can find,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: and that'll put me hopefully in a good neighborhood. And
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: it did. And the coffee shop was beyond cool. I mean,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: they had this vinyl selection that blew my mind. And
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: they only had like like ten books. And I found
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: the Billie Holiday Autobiography on a hardcover, and I'm like,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: I am buying this shit. No one has this book
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: four hundred dollars, So I didn't buy it. But what
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: I did discover was this DVD, this two DVD set
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: of this documentary on Max's Kansas City in the Famous
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: Club in New York.
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: YEP.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: I've done every bit of research you could probably do
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: into seventies New York punk rock I've never heard of
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: this thing, never heard of this documentary, and I didn't
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: buy it because I don't have a DVD player.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it's it's and it's fun going to put
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: it in. Well, it's funny because there are all these
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: super fascinating things that fall through the cracks of the
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: like digital sieve, right, Like, because once upon a time
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: when all these places started, like Netflix, was a mail
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: order DVD joint, and so I'm kind of wondering, like
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: I may go back to the like mail order, because
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: there's like weird stuff that's not streaming and not streaming
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: anywhere that actually you can get on DVD. But yes,
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: you got to get a DVD player, right, you know.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: But I you know, it's like it's it's it's renewed
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: my love of the like vinyl collection and whatever else.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: Like there is joy to that tactile thing in this
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: you know digital you know, bizarre domain that we all
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: live in and have it and appreciate. But I also
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: do miss just having it in your hands.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: I hear you, man, I hear you. All right, let
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: me get back to I want to get back to
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: Ramirez for a couple more questions. One's one selfishly, I
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: want to ask you this and see if you feel
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: the same way that I feel, and then how you
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: deal with it. So oftentimes when I'm researching something dark
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: and we both feel in a lot of dark subject matter,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: if I spend too much time in it, yeah, transference
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: is too strong of a word.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: It sticks to you, though, Yeah, it sticks to you.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: And there's like in my head, I have it. I
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: have a real agible fear of this. There's like some
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: trip wire that I don't want to cross. Yeah, I
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: don't know what's on the other side, but I don't
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: like how close I'm getting, and it affects my moods.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: I have to like go through this process of either
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: working out or watching something like like like Friends or
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: something to kind of like claim, yep, yep, what do
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: you feel? This sounds like you do, and then how
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: do you deal with it?
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: I hugely feel it, and it's something I think that
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: like the older I get, the more acutely aware of
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: it I am. And so I have a handful of
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: things that I do to kind of take the edge
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: off and to shed it a little bit, which is
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: when I wake up in the morning, one of the
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: first things I do is read this, you know, daily
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: calendar of Buddhist wisdom, and or right before I go
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: to sleep, I make sure that I'm putting some input
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: that's positive and toward the light. So I always book
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: in my day with that. And before I start messing
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: with the phone or returning emails or you know, grinding
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: on whatever it is, I put in a little bit
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: of the light to kind of compensate for the darkness.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: And then I do a lot of you know, I
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: meditate twice a day, I do yoga, I go running.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: I kind of you have to shed it, and I mean,
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: imagine how much more intense it is for the folks
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: that are out there, you know, actually working these murder investigations,
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: like you talk about sticking to you. It's amazing to
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: me that the like secondhand trauma or reporters that are
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: out there or you know, war journalists, so ours it's
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: a little bit removed, but it is your consciousness. And
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: I think the more you marinate in that, you have
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: to find something that balances to takes the edge off
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: and puts the light in.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: It's true, It's true. You talk about the cops and
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: the first responders and these folks that victims. I mean,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: I mean one of one of Ramiroz is one of
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: the women survived, which is just crazy.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and and with you know, when when doing
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: docs right, you're dealing with the real stuff where I
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: remember literally as like boxes would show up at the
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: office and it's you know, the actual crime scene photos,
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: hundreds if not thousands of them of what it looked
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: like at the time, and they're shot in you know,
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: five x sevens or four by six's or what they are,
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: and the tactile present nature or sitting in the edit
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: bay where you're looking at that, and it's you have
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: to immerse yourself and marinate fully in a story, I think,
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: to get at the heart of it, but at the
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: same time you do have to put it down and
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: walk away from it. I mean, it was the same
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: thing as we're doing Waco and David Koresh on this
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: new series. It's like, you know, you're you're entering into
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: this weird world of god and guns and kind of
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: violence and death and you have to walk back. But
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: you have to be your heart has to be fully
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: in it, to be fully empathetic, to tell these stories
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: in a nuanced and thoughtful way. But you don't want
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: to drown in it.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's that's a good way to put it.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: You don't want it, you don't want to drown in it.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: You need to you need to balance it. You talk
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: about putting in putting the light. I think about how
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: do I how do I be the light? You know?
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: I heard somewhere and it just stuck with me. It's like, Okay,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: if I can, if I can put my head there,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: that will help. And I find it. It does help,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: And I do similar things too. At night, I do
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: the same sort. I have a different come down experience,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: but it is necessary. You referenced the new series Waco.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: I believe the trailer was dropped today. Correct, Yeah, to
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: trailer drop today on rolling Stone. I think it's you know,
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: out out wide now. But rolling Stone was gracious enough,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: and you know, as a music fan, it's a cool
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: place to have a drop.
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: So I was glad to have it out there.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Nice. And the series comes out March twenty second, Is
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: that right?
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: Twenty Yes, in March twenty two it drops on Netflix.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: Awesome and okay, so so Waco American Apocalypse. I saw
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: the trailer. It looks incredible for anyone listening, make make
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: sure you go watch that, Make sure you add it
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: to your list on Netflix. But Tiller tell us tell
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Us about this series.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: It was a really fascinating deep dive. When I first
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: came to it, I came to it with trepidation because
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: I felt like, well, you know, it's we're coming up
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: on the thirtieth anniversary. This story has been told. It
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: was told, you know, on the daily news and the papers.
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: It's been told countless times. You know, is there anything
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: new here for for for me to explore? And what
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: happened was these producers that I work with had gotten
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: hold of this amazing footage that had been shot inside
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: the FBI's you know, hostage negotiation room. And what had
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: happened was they when the FBI rolled up, they thought, oh,
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: this will be done in a couple of days, we'll
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: shoot some video. It'll be a training tool in Quantico,
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: and you know, away we go, it'll be a useful
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: training tool. Well, obviously what happened happened. You know, this
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: massive gunfight that was the biggest gunfight on American soil
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: since the Civil War, leads to this fifty one day
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: siege and this horrifying fire that happens live on national television,
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: but that those tapes that had been shot inside of
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: the hostage negotiators doing what they do had never seen
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: the light of day. And then the deeper I got,
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: the more of this kind of material there was, whether
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: it's the snipers outside the compound. And the weird fascinating
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: thing for me was all of these people, no matter
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: who they were, were not who I expected them to be.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: You know, the sniper was actually a poet. The FBI's
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: hostage negotiator actually had massive criticism for the way the
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: FBI had handled it. The last child out, who was
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: nine years old and had her whole life kind of
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: shattered with the death of her family, refused to be
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: defined defined by that. And so it was this deeply
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: humanist exploration and experience that has all these kind of
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: explosive topics swirling around it. So it was it was
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: really hard and really and and really fascinating and moving
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: to make.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: I love that. I love that your your immediate approach
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: is like, well, this has been done. How do I
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: find a way to tell it in a way that
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: hasn't been done? And I love that You're You're taking
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: these characters and you're you're presenting characters that, you know,
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: if this is the made for TV version of this,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: it'd be you know, the tobacco chewing sniper who's just
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: out of the.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: Air, the knuckle dragger, and yeah, exactly.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: And and that isn't life. That life is always full
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: of nuance in these interesting contrasts. And I think that's
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: part of what makes your filmmaking so damn interesting, is
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: your ability to go there. Did you feel because you
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: your Dallas connection, did you feel like you had to
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: tell this story in some way, I mean, being so
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: close to Waco.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: Well, it definitely, you know, I find myself now wading
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: into these stories that were in some way defining of
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: my youth. You know that this was the biggest news
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: story in the world, dominating absolutely everything, And so on
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: the one hand, it's very humbling to think, like, Okay,
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: I'm now the person that's going to wade into the
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: story and try to tell the definitive version of it
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: or or a nuanced version of it that's never been
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: done before. And on the on the other hand, it
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: feels like it's this great responsibility to really mind those uh,
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: you know, the nuanced corners of it and and to
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: to you know, to do it in a way that's
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: loving and deep and complicated, because I think that's a
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: lot of what we're, you know, have lost in the culture.
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: Is everything is nuanced, but it feels like America in
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: particular right now, everybody's screaming and nobody's listening, and so
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: being able to kind of hold the tension of the opposite,
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: you know, as Young says, I think is is a
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: super important you know, outlook and approach as an artist.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Agreed, Agreed, And thankfully you're out there doing it in
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: this medium better than anyone else. What else you can
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: you talk about what's next that you're working on before
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: we split here?
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: You know, we've got another series that's dropping on Netflix
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: that a brilliant director that I brought in to work on.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: It will be premiering like three or four weeks and
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: I can't quite tell you the name of it, but
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: three or four weeks after Waco, look for another one
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: which which is also kind of an iconic ten year anniversary,
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: which you'll be which you'll be seeing coming down the
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: line as soon as they announce it.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: Nice busy guy, man, You're like a shark. You don't stop.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: You just just trying to keep just trying to keep
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: breathing and keep working, man.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Just like you. I love it.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Hey, dude, thank you so much for coming on and
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: talking to me. I know how busy you are, and
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: I really really appreciate it. I always love talking to you.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: So yeah, man, just want to say thanks everyone out there.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: He's Till A. Russell. Make sure you go to your
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Netflix and you click that little you know, add to
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: my list button for for Waco American Apocalypse and watch
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: Night Stalker if you haven't already. And uh yeah, google
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: the seven five because that might be my favorite of
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: Tiller's amazing films. Thanks dude, I appreciate it.
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: Thank you for having me, buddy. Keep making great work
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: you as well.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: I'll talk to you soon.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: Bye.
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: Be good.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: All right, guys, that was my interview with Tiller Russell.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: I hope you liked it more after party, right after this, Okay,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: all right, My recommendations this week, they're gonna be short
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: and they're gonna be sweet. I recommend you all go
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: watch Tiller Russell's films. The Night Stalker on Netflix is incredible,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: a massive hit. It's a series. It's a docu series. It's,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: like I said, a huge hit. Markets don't live people.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: Lots of people watch this true crime documentary series because
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: it is incredible. So go watch Tailors the Night Soccer.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: Watch Tiller's other doc The Seven to Five, about corrupt
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: New York City cops in the nineties. This in all seriousness,
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: and I thought this way before I knew Tiller. This
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: might be my favorite documentary of all time. It is
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: so fucking good, The Seven to Five. I recommend you
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: listen to ac DC, Loud Bond, Scott Era ac DC.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: If you haven't heard Powereddge, you've seen it, you just hear.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: You're like, I don't know, man, I'm gonna let there
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: be rock guy. You know I like Hive Old Ditch
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: or or you know, I'm into the Brian Johnson stuff.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: If you haven't given Power Ridge it's due as an
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: album from start to finish, you are missing out on life. Seriously,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: we're supposed to embrace life. We're supposed to be active
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: participants in this life. And I'm telling you Power Ridge
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: is the ac DC album even better. Then let there
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: be rock fight me. I know you're out there. I
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: know all of you disagree pretty much, or you're just like,
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: what the fuck is even PowerEdge? I don't even know
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: what that is. Trust me, I love this record so much.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: I have like gone to bed at night and closed
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: my eyes and just without even listening to the record,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: just fantasizing that I'm in some small dingy rock club
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy eight and I somehow happen upon ACDC
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: playing a small show, just doing this album start to finish.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: It is so good. There aren't any huge ACDC hits
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: on anythink riff Raff might be the closest thing to
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: a hit on that album, but it's just oh and
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: talk about storytelling, next level Bond Scott at the peak
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: of his power is so good. So yeah, listen to ACDC,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: But specifically I'm recommending that you listen to Powerage, and
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: I'm recommending you go and you watch some NASCAR races
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: more Rex next week. Coming at you a little a
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: little differently this week with the interview you in this
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: podcast episode, but I do want to I do want
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: to tell you real quick before we jump into the
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: next segment here on YouTube, I'm recommending that you go
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: to YouTube. There's some music storytelling there the YouTube disgracelam channel.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: Last week we featured the story of James Brown at
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: the Boston Garden in nineteen sixty eight, an incredible story.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: You can see that video at YouTube dot com slash
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: at disgrace lampod. You're not gonna hear that in the podcast.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: You're not gonna get that in your RSS feed. You know,
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: you're not gonna have my image, my video, all the
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: visuals we do for this thing aren't going to come
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: through the podcast machine. You gotta go. You gotta go
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: to YouTube YouTube dot com slash at disgrace lampod to
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: get this story. This week on that YouTube channel, we
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: have the real story of the Cocaine Bear, Yes, that
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: cocaine bear, the one that the movie is based on,
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: the real story about that coke eating bear and a
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: legendary coke snorting country music outlaw. But again that one too,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: just like the James Brown one and everything we do
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: over at YouTube, it's only available on YouTube. You gotta
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: go subscribe over there, and it's free. When I say subscribe,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: I just mean you hit the sub button. That's it.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: YouTube dot com slash at disgrace sampod. Next week in
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: your Disgrace slam podcast feed Mac Miller, But for now,
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: me reading the phone book from Augusta, Wisconsin in nineteen
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: fifty four Bits Clifford, fll Clark eight eight dash W
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: Bach august Augusta two four four dash W Becker Ralph three,
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Oliva Cleghorn fourteen, dash F two three Belkie Clarence one
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Rum Cleighorn twenty five dash five two three Belkie Emma
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Cleghorn six, dash F one three Bennett Cecil Augusta, Dash
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: two three six Burgerson Eleanor Augusta two three nine dash
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: M Besky Charles two Fairchild Augusta nine, dash F five
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: Bill and Jacks Taverns Augusta, Dash seventeen, Bittner, Jay Mist,
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: Reverend fl Clark, dash sixteen Blakeley Lynn fl Clark, dash
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: five seven dash R two.
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: Quit talking and start mixing good