Latest / Destination Unlimited with Victor Fuhrman / Enid Baxter Ryce – Ancient Spells and Incantations

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Enid Baxter Ryce – Ancient Spells and Incantations · Destination Unlimited with Victor Fuhrman

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Speaker 1: My name is Victor Furman. Some call me the Voice.
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Speaker 1: I've always been fascinated with human nature, spirituality, science and
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Speaker 1: the crossroads at which they meet. Join me now and
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Speaker 1: we will explore these topics and so much more with
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Speaker 1: fascinating guests, authors and experts who will guide us to
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Speaker 1: Destination Unlimited. What was the power of words in ancient
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Speaker 1: magical practices and how may they be applied to modern manifestation.
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Speaker 1: My guest this week on Destination Unlimited, Enid Baxter Rice,
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Speaker 1: has assembled a collection of poetic spells and incantations that
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Speaker 1: recount the rich lives of our ancestors, who were connected
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Speaker 1: across cultures by their experience of the world as a
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Speaker 1: magical place, who shared a belief, and who engaged in
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Speaker 1: magical practices for manifestation, prophecy, love, protection, healing, curses, and
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Speaker 1: even vengeance. Enid Baxter Rice is a writer, artist and
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Speaker 1: filmmaker who has exhibited at museums internationally, including the National
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Speaker 1: Gallery of Art, the Getty, and the Arnolfini. A descendant
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Speaker 1: of three Salem witches, she comes from a long family
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Speaker 1: history of natural magic practice. Enid has an MFA in
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Speaker 1: Visual Arts and studied at Cooper Union, Yale University, and
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Speaker 1: Claremont Graduate University. Enid's work has been reviewed in The
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Speaker 1: New York Times, Art Forum, Art Review, and the Los
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Speaker 1: Angeles Times, as well as many other publications. Her website
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Speaker 1: is Enidrice dot com, and she joins me this week
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Speaker 1: to share her path and new book, Ancient Spells and
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Speaker 1: Incantations Echoes of Magic through the Ages and Across Cultures.
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Speaker 1: Please join me in welcoming to Destination Unlimited, Enid Baxter Rice, Welcome.
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Speaker 2: Enid, Thank you, thank you for having me. I'm so
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Speaker 2: excited to talk with you in it.
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Speaker 1: Your bio shares that you are the descendant of three
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Speaker 1: Salem witches and come from a long family history of
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Speaker 1: natural magic practice. Please share with us your early path
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Speaker 1: and how this heritage shaped your life.
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Speaker 2: Well. My favorite memories of my childhood occur either in
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Speaker 2: the forest or in the garden. And when I was small,
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Speaker 2: my mother told me that she always planted marigold's next
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Speaker 2: to tomatoes because they would protect the tomatoes, and I
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Speaker 2: was really curious about what that meant. I assumed it
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Speaker 2: was the scent of the marigolds, and I found out
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Speaker 2: years later that marigolds actually intertwine their roots with the
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Speaker 2: tomato and word off these things called nematodes, which are
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Speaker 2: kind of like organisms that would attack the plant. And
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Speaker 2: my mother never studied botany, and I asked her how
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Speaker 2: she knew about this, and she said, oh, you know,
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Speaker 2: your grandma told me. And my grandma barely went to
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Speaker 2: school at all. So there's this long line of transmission
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Speaker 2: of plant knowledge that was also used for healing. So
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Speaker 2: I learned about things like evening primrose oil and things
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Speaker 2: that were good for women. But also they had a
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Speaker 2: lot of ideas about different kinds of wood that needed
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Speaker 2: to be hung over the doorway to keep things safe,
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Speaker 2: and what plants to plant at the corners of gardens
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Speaker 2: and such things. When I began to research the family
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Speaker 2: history and found that we were descended from George Jacobs,
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Speaker 2: who was actually hung for a witch in Salem, I
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Speaker 2: found out that he was the son of a barber healer,
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Speaker 2: and barber was an occupation that was allowed for Converso
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Speaker 2: Jews in England at the time in the sixteenth century,
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Speaker 2: and George Jacobs was actually descended from a long line
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Speaker 2: of North African Converso Jewish healers, and so that may
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Speaker 2: be part of where the tradition comes in. But there
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Speaker 2: also is a tradition in the family of reading tarot cards,
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Speaker 2: and so I learned that as a child as well.
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Speaker 1: Did you have a sense of energy and magic growing up?
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Speaker 2: I did. I really feel like the forest saved me.
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Speaker 2: My home was pretty volatile and unstable, and I spend
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Speaker 2: a lot of time alone in the woods. We lived
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Speaker 2: in the middle of the woods, and I just had
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Speaker 2: this sense of connection and wonder and magic everywhere. And
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Speaker 2: I always say, like the forest taught me how to pray,
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Speaker 2: or the forest saved me.
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Speaker 1: You know. It's interesting. A lot of people love now,
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Speaker 1: especially the last few years, to ground themselves, to go
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Speaker 1: out with bare feet if they can, or to have
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Speaker 1: some form of grounding to the earth and to the
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Speaker 1: plants and to the trees. What's the beauty of grounding?
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Speaker 1: Do you do that practice yourself?
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Speaker 2: I do, and I actually crave being outside and feeling
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Speaker 2: the earth beneath my feet. It makes me feel safe
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Speaker 2: and it makes me feel connected. And now we know
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Speaker 2: that under the ground the trees are even communicating with
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Speaker 2: each other. This was proven by Suzanne Samard, who wrote
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Speaker 2: The Mother Tree, who was a researcher who studied forrests
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Speaker 2: and suspected that trees were actually working cooperatively, and they are.
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Speaker 2: Through their roots and through the fungus, they're communicating and sharing,
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Speaker 2: and as you ground yourself, you can imagine that you're
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Speaker 2: kind of being held by those roots and held by
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Speaker 2: that loving conversation that's happening throughout nature.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely tell us about your work as an award winning writer,
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Speaker 1: artist and filmmaker.
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Speaker 2: Well, I've had a really fun career. I studied visual
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Speaker 2: art at Cooper Union and at Claremont Graduate University, and
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Speaker 2: then went on to start working as a documentary film editor,
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Speaker 2: and the first film I edited ended up going to Sundance,
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Speaker 2: so I was working kind of a day job in
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Speaker 2: the film industry and beginning to show in art museums
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Speaker 2: and art galleries, and I continued being an exhibiting artist
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Speaker 2: until just this last year. I was also then made
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Speaker 2: a Professor of Cinematic Arts and Technology, which I've been
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Speaker 2: for the past twenty years. But shortly after my mother
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Speaker 2: passed away in twenty nineteen, I realized that I really
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Speaker 2: wanted to commit myself to telling stories and making images
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Speaker 2: that people could have in their homes and hold in
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Speaker 2: their hands. And I have just thrown myself into writing
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Speaker 2: and illustrating and I love it so much and I'm
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Speaker 2: so happy. My last exhibition was with the Getty Pacific
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Speaker 2: Standard Time series that took place in twenty twenty five,
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Speaker 2: and I thought that was a real nice way to
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Speaker 2: go out of the art world. And so yeah, I've
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Speaker 2: been writing and illustrating, and I have two books coming
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Speaker 2: out this year year, and I had to come out
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Speaker 2: last year, so very exciting times.
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Speaker 1: You know. It's interesting I've recognized in my own life
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Speaker 1: that there have been certain times in my life, specific ages,
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Speaker 1: where new chapters opened for me. Is that what you're
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Speaker 1: talking about.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was partially this experience of my mother, you know,
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Speaker 2: dying and remembering the dreams I had as a kid,
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Speaker 2: and part of why I was committed to going to
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Speaker 2: arts school. At the time, Cooper Union was full tuition
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Speaker 2: scholarship and it really seemed like a way out of
8:39
Speaker 2: a tough situation. So I dedicated myself to getting that
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Speaker 2: full scholarship to college so I could move away, and
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Speaker 2: I kind of set aside, you know, the dream of
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Speaker 2: being an author illustrator. What changed was a faculty meeting
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Speaker 2: where someone said you know, we haven't had a strategic
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Speaker 2: plan in five years, and I volunteered to help write
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Speaker 2: the strategic plan and everyone just sort of stared at me,
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Speaker 2: and I thought, why am I volunteering to do this?
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Speaker 2: I don't even want to do it. And then I thought,
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Speaker 2: you know what, I need a personal strategic plan. And
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Speaker 2: I sat down and I went through that like it's
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Speaker 2: kind of like a corporate y process of you know,
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Speaker 2: what are my values, my mission, my vision. And I
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Speaker 2: realized when I read it over that museum exhibitions were
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Speaker 2: not on the list, and I thought wow, And I
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Speaker 2: really you know, honed in on those core things that
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Speaker 2: I wanted to work on, and one was, you know,
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Speaker 2: by then it was the pandemic, getting my kids through
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Speaker 2: intact mentally, emotionally and intellectually, and being becoming as cheerful
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Speaker 2: a version of myself as I could, and then becoming
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Speaker 2: an author illustrator. And it's very clarifying when you set
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Speaker 2: those goals based in you know, where you really are
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Speaker 2: in whatever phase of your life you're in.
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Speaker 1: I had the experience in my late forties early fifties
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Speaker 1: of learning the healing power of the word no, and
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Speaker 1: it literally changed my life being able to say no,
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Speaker 1: that's not for me and move on with the things
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Speaker 1: that were for me, and yeah, letally what you're.
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Speaker 2: Talking about one hundred percent. I was like, I really
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Speaker 2: turns out I love quitting things, and I did not
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Speaker 2: realize how great that feels I have. I think it's
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Speaker 2: eb White's letter on the door frame of my studio
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Speaker 2: where he declines to serve on a federal committee and
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Speaker 2: he says, for secret reasons, wonderful.
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Speaker 1: You won the Elizabeth Kray Prize from the Society for
10:55
Speaker 1: American Poets when you graduated from Cooper Union as a
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Speaker 1: fellow poet. I'm curious as to how poetry blessed your life.
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Speaker 2: I always wrote poetry. I wrote it just constantly. I
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Speaker 2: loved reading it. My films that I made were always experimental.
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Speaker 2: I tried to make like very you know, mainstream stuff.
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Speaker 2: They're always just visual poetry. There is something about the
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Speaker 2: way poems work that I think is why magic spells
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Speaker 2: are so creative. The way that words are sequenced in poetry,
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Speaker 2: the way they sound, the way they ring, the way
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Speaker 2: they're sung out changes their meaning or reveals hidden meanings.
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Speaker 2: And so it's the juxtaposition and unexpected placement and sound
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Speaker 2: of words that opens us to new levels of understanding
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Speaker 2: and emotion. And I really love that.
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Speaker 1: I'll share with you. We would talk about the power
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Speaker 1: of the word no, and I actually wrote a poem
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Speaker 1: called the Healing Power of No. I'll share that with
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Speaker 1: you if I may please. It says a time comes
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Speaker 1: for choosing rather than losing the essence that makes us
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Speaker 1: so and in the bestowing. There's power in knowing the
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Speaker 1: freedom that comes with no. When said with compassion, not angry,
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Speaker 1: in fashion and letting the self love flow, there's a
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Speaker 1: sense of renewing and deep soul imbuing the awareness that
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Speaker 1: comes with no. So with gentle voice and the power
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Speaker 1: of choice and the courage to make it so. I'm
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Speaker 1: still here, my friends. There's no means in this end,
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Speaker 1: just the healing that comes with no.
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Speaker 2: Definitely no is clarifying. No is you know, there's a
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Speaker 2: root of the word decide that relates to kind of
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Speaker 2: death because different paths, you know, we're closed. It really
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Speaker 2: is a way to discern your path and who you are.
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Speaker 2: And the more comfortable you get saying no, the closer
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Speaker 2: you're going to get to where you're supposed to be.
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Speaker 2: And you know, I think, especially for you know, I'm
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Speaker 2: fifty one. I was not raised to say no, I'm
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Speaker 2: a female, so it you know, it takes practice, but
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Speaker 2: you can do.
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Speaker 1: It absolutely absolutely. Before we discuss your new book, Ancient
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Speaker 1: Spells and Incantations, please share with us about your last book,
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Speaker 1: Plant Magic at Home, a Complete guide to harnessing the
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Speaker 1: power of nature from rituals to dwise. What inspired this
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Speaker 1: book and what do you share with readers.
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Speaker 2: Well, I began working on this book during the pandemic
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Speaker 2: when me and my kids were home doing Zoom school
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Speaker 2: thirty hours a week, and I had these memories of
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Speaker 2: being a child and gathering poke berries to turn into
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Speaker 2: dyes to make color for my mother's weavings. And I
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Speaker 2: decided that I wanted to take my kids out to
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Speaker 2: gather plants to see if we could get pigments from them.
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Speaker 2: And so we started going out on these walks and
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Speaker 2: collecting plants, and I would, you know, remember things about
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Speaker 2: them from learning from my family, and I realized I
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Speaker 2: was just found it both exciting and relaxing at the
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Speaker 2: same time to bring home wild barley and find out
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Speaker 2: I could get a reddish brown ink from it, and
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Speaker 2: teaching the kids to collect acorn caps to make silver ink,
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Speaker 2: and you know, these are inks that then become things
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Speaker 2: you can write with that have are imbued with the
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Speaker 2: power of the plants. So what I decided to do
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Speaker 2: is to create a book that was really about living
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Speaker 2: with plants in harmony and letting yourself reconnect to nature
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Speaker 2: because it will change the way your life feels. And
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Speaker 2: so it's a bit of an herbal like the medieval
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Speaker 2: documents where the monks used to kind of write down
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Speaker 2: the names of all the plants and their healing properties.
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Speaker 2: It has plants from all different ecosystems because I wanted
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Speaker 2: it to be accessible. A lot of times plant books
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Speaker 2: really focus on stuff in the northeast of America or Europe.
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Speaker 2: This is more comprehensive, and for each plant, I researched
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Speaker 2: how to make paints, pigments and inks with them. Their
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Speaker 2: recipes teach you how to do that, like make paint
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Speaker 2: from flowers. In the book, it teaches you about the
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Speaker 2: healing properties of each plant, the magical properties of each plant,
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Speaker 2: some of which are surprisingly universal plants like yaro and mugwarts.
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Speaker 2: So many cultures believe these plants are magical, and it
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Speaker 2: teaches you also like different ways you can cook with
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Speaker 2: them and stuff like that. It gives projects and recipes
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Speaker 2: that are great for people of all ages, including a
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Speaker 2: ink recipe that is a recipe for finger paint that
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Speaker 2: is best made in a high chair, all the way
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Speaker 2: to making like more advanced recipes.
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Speaker 1: You had mentioned before about trees and plants communicating with
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Speaker 1: each other. I'm a tree talker. I've been a tree
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Speaker 1: talker since I was a kid. Do you communicate with
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Speaker 1: your plants?
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Speaker 3: I do.
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Speaker 2: I love my plants. I do communicate with my plants
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Speaker 2: and also try to pick up on if I can
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Speaker 2: sense anything from them. A fun project I do with
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Speaker 2: my students is we have a device that translates the
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Speaker 2: electrical signals that plants send into tones, and my students
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Speaker 2: can create musical scores with this device based on the
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Speaker 2: tones and intonations of plants. And I definitely talked to trees.
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Speaker 1: Wonderful. You've also created a bilingual tarot deck and guidebook,
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Speaker 1: The Borderlands Tarot. What inspired this beautiful creation?
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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for asking. I had stopped reading cards
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Speaker 2: in my early twenties.
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Speaker 3: I just.
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Speaker 2: I'm not sure why I put it down, And that's
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Speaker 2: something that I am thinking about because it feels like
17:40
Speaker 2: that was a crossroads of some kind. And right before
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Speaker 2: I had this reawakening of making my strategic plan and
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Speaker 2: knowing what I really wanted to do, I went to
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Speaker 2: a friend's bookstore and she said, oh, just sit right here,
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Speaker 2: I'll be right back. And I sat down where she
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Speaker 2: told me to, and there was a tarot card reader
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Speaker 2: and she said, would you like me to reach your cards?
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Speaker 2: And I said, no, you know, I don't. I don't
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Speaker 2: have any money. And I was thinking to my mind, like,
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Speaker 2: I don't know if this person's for real, because I
18:12
Speaker 2: also know, you know, the kind of tricks of the
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Speaker 2: fake tarot card reading, Like I can tell that you're
18:19
Speaker 2: going to go on a trip soon and you're nervous
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Speaker 2: about it, but it's been going to be good for
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Speaker 2: you because, like, you know, who doesn't have that coming up.
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Speaker 2: And she said, oh, don't worry about it. Let me
18:30
Speaker 2: just read your cards. And she gave me the most
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Speaker 2: insightful reading and it was really powerful. And then she
18:39
Speaker 2: said to me, now, who's that girl standing behind you,
18:44
Speaker 2: that sixteen year old girl? And I burst into tears.
18:50
Speaker 2: My best friend had died when we were both sixteen,
18:52
Speaker 2: and I began to talk to her about that and
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Speaker 2: she said, you know, your friend, she says, she had
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Speaker 2: some messages for me and reassuring messages, and I was
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Speaker 2: so moved and amazed, and it was like I suddenly
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Speaker 2: reconnected with this part of myself that have been lost.
19:15
Speaker 2: And so then I was asked to be in a
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Speaker 2: museum exhibition called the Mechi Kelly Biennial, which is this
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Speaker 2: amazing program many years of multi dimensional exhibitions around the
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Speaker 2: border and the borderlands, and I thought, you know, I
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Speaker 2: want to make a Tarot deck, and so I reached
19:38
Speaker 2: out to my coworker who is my friend, who is
19:41
Speaker 2: also really loves tarot. Both our kids, both of us
19:44
Speaker 2: have kids who love tarot. Our families are into it.
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Speaker 2: His name is Louis and he's the co illustrator of
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Speaker 2: the project. And we created these cards and I read
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Speaker 2: them at the opening of this museum exhibition and it
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Speaker 2: was the best time I've ever had at a museum opening.
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Speaker 2: It was just wonderful. I've done it again subsequently, and
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Speaker 2: it's such a wonderful way to connect and give people
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Speaker 2: attention and listen and focus on them. It feels much
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Speaker 2: more lovely than standing around drinking chardonnay and chit chatting.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely, my guest is Enid Baxter Rice her book Ancient
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Speaker 1: Spells and Incantations Echoes of Magic through the Ages and
20:37
Speaker 1: Across Cultures. We're going to discuss that book when we
20:40
Speaker 1: come back. Enid, please share with our listeners where they
20:43
Speaker 1: can get all of your books and find out more
20:44
Speaker 1: about you and your amazing work.
20:47
Speaker 4: Thank you.
20:48
Speaker 2: My books are available anywhere books are sold, so your
20:51
Speaker 2: local bookshop, to Amazon and Barnes and Noble. And my
20:57
Speaker 2: website is my first name, Enid, my last name Rice
21:01
Speaker 2: Roycee dot com.
21:04
Speaker 1: And we'll be back with more after these words. On
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Speaker 1: the Own Times Radio Network.
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Speaker 1: Back on Destination Unlimited. My guest this week Enid Baxter Rice.
23:49
Speaker 1: We're talking about her new book, Ancient Spells and Incantations
23:54
Speaker 1: Echoes of Magic through the Ages and Across Cultures. What
23:58
Speaker 1: inspired this book in it?
24:00
Speaker 2: When I was researching my book Plant Magic at Home,
24:05
Speaker 2: which came out last summer, I kept finding these incredible,
24:11
Speaker 2: beautiful magical spells in the old transcripts of medieval herbals
24:20
Speaker 2: or even in witchcraft trials. Because I was researching the
24:23
Speaker 2: magical histories of plants. It was incredible. The inspiration that
24:29
Speaker 2: brought about gathering them was I thought, Wow, I'm seeing
24:32
Speaker 2: so many of these spells in the kinds of books
24:35
Speaker 2: that are pretty hard to get access to if you're
24:38
Speaker 2: not a university professor working with a big library system.
24:43
Speaker 2: So I wanted to pull together the most resonant of them,
24:50
Speaker 2: retranslate them from modern audiences, and put them in a
24:54
Speaker 2: collection for everybody to enjoy.
24:58
Speaker 1: The power of spoken spells and incantations is an ancient
25:03
Speaker 1: understanding from your personal research and experience. Where did they
25:08
Speaker 1: start and how are they passed down?
25:11
Speaker 2: Well, we could even start with the Old Testament, which
25:15
Speaker 2: says that the Lord says, let there be light, and
25:18
Speaker 2: there's light, but he has to say it first. And
25:21
Speaker 2: so you know, in many religious traditions there are deep
25:27
Speaker 2: commitments to saying things and not saying things at certain times.
25:31
Speaker 2: So as human beings, we intuitively connect the power of
25:36
Speaker 2: words with the power of worlds. That words make worlds.
25:41
Speaker 2: The stories we tell ourselves about ourselfs impact us deeply
25:46
Speaker 2: and make a big difference in our self concept Like
25:49
Speaker 2: if I told myself that I was frightened in a victim,
25:54
Speaker 2: I might react differently than if I tell myself that
25:56
Speaker 2: I'm a brave survivor. Those kinds of stories are important,
26:02
Speaker 2: and then the stories we tell ourselves about our communities
26:06
Speaker 2: help unify us and keep us together. In Judaism, there's
26:13
Speaker 2: a tradition where we don't speak la cheron because it's
26:16
Speaker 2: a speaking of slander or speaking about other people. That
26:22
Speaker 2: this is, you know, something that we really try not
26:24
Speaker 2: to do because it's not good for the person you're
26:27
Speaker 2: talking about, but it's also not good for yourself. So
26:32
Speaker 2: when we look back at ancient spells, the first body
26:37
Speaker 2: of them I write about in the book are these
26:39
Speaker 2: things called incantation bowls, which are bowls that have script
26:45
Speaker 2: written in spirals down to their center, and they were
26:50
Speaker 2: used to trap ancient troublesome spirits under. It's really interesting
26:56
Speaker 2: that the people who write these curses were especially good
27:03
Speaker 2: with cursive right and spelling. Those words are in the
27:09
Speaker 2: way we talk about language, spelling and cursive. People would
27:14
Speaker 2: come to them from all different religions. Pagans, Coptics, Jews,
27:20
Speaker 2: later Christians and later Muslims would come to these same scribes,
27:24
Speaker 2: even though all those traditions prohibited the occult, and the
27:28
Speaker 2: scribes would write these messages inside the incantation bulls and
27:32
Speaker 2: tailor them to whichever tradition the people came from, Like
27:36
Speaker 2: if the person who came was Jewish, they'd say in
27:39
Speaker 2: the name of Abraham, and if the person was Christian,
27:44
Speaker 2: they would, you know, say in the name of Our Lord,
27:47
Speaker 2: and etc. And so it was this kind of secret
27:53
Speaker 2: taboo behavior that united all people in the ancient world.
27:59
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting talking about the power of the
28:01
Speaker 1: spoken word. I've been familiar, as I'm sure you have,
28:05
Speaker 1: with the various forms of manifestation of the secret and
28:09
Speaker 1: things of that nature, and a lot of people would say,
28:12
Speaker 1: you know, I'm visualizing these things, I'm doing these things,
28:17
Speaker 1: but nothing's happening. And I came to the recognition that
28:20
Speaker 1: if you spoke it as if it has already transpired,
28:23
Speaker 1: not something that you want to aspire to, but that
28:26
Speaker 1: it's already in existence, and then follow that up with
28:28
Speaker 1: an expression of gratitude that the manifestation would actually take place.
28:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were talking earlier about that time when I
28:36
Speaker 2: kind of freaked out and decided I need to make
28:38
Speaker 2: my own personal strategic plan. I have no doubt that
28:41
Speaker 2: writing out and identifying those words that I can then
28:45
Speaker 2: tell myself this story, this is what I am committed to,
28:50
Speaker 2: this is what I am becoming. That that it was
28:52
Speaker 2: so powerful. Another thing that I learned from one of
28:57
Speaker 2: the tourist study I went to is to when I'm
29:03
Speaker 2: nervous driving in traffic, I can say thank you for
29:08
Speaker 2: all the times I've driven and gotten where I'm going safely,
29:13
Speaker 2: and that reframes the way I'm feeling. And then when
29:17
Speaker 2: I get where I'm going safely, I say thank you again.
29:20
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's very powerful.
29:23
Speaker 1: Absolutely, a morning practice every day of getting up and
29:26
Speaker 1: saying what you're thankful for is a very powerful thing
29:28
Speaker 1: to do. A gratitude practice every day.
29:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. It's also something that we interrupt by
29:36
Speaker 2: rolling over and picking up our phones. So because our
29:40
Speaker 2: subconscious and our dream life is so powerful, if you
29:44
Speaker 2: give yourself some time after you wake up in the morning,
29:48
Speaker 2: you'll see things surface, like problems you've been trying to solve,
29:51
Speaker 2: Solutions will come to you. You'll have a moment to
29:56
Speaker 2: you know, train your brain to think in a mode
29:59
Speaker 2: of gratitud which we know makes for a much happier life,
30:03
Speaker 2: So that's something it's really important to do.
30:07
Speaker 1: Absolutely. How has the evolution of spoken language had an
30:12
Speaker 1: effect on spells?
30:14
Speaker 2: Two things, One is very old and one is very new.
30:18
Speaker 2: The very new thing is that we're all talking about
30:22
Speaker 2: AI and that these things are large language models. The
30:27
Speaker 2: formation of language is really central to the formation of
30:32
Speaker 2: whatever this thing is. Once it learned to predict how
30:37
Speaker 2: we might talk, then it began to predict how we
30:40
Speaker 2: might think. So that's the new thing. The old thing
30:44
Speaker 2: is there's these things that are called proto languages and
30:48
Speaker 2: the history of linguistics, and there are words. There are
30:52
Speaker 2: words that existed when human beings lived all maybe together,
30:57
Speaker 2: you know, much more closely, before we all went off
30:59
Speaker 2: in our separate ways and developed our separate languages. And
31:04
Speaker 2: one of the words that really exists across Celtic languages,
31:09
Speaker 2: Middle Eastern languages like Farsi and Urdu, Mediterranean languages, North
31:15
Speaker 2: African languages is a word that sounds like magic. So
31:22
Speaker 2: that was some that is part of a family of
31:26
Speaker 2: ancient kind of mother languages. So these are that means
31:32
Speaker 2: there's a concept among ancient people shared among them that
31:37
Speaker 2: there is such a thing as magic.
31:41
Speaker 1: Abracadabra is well known to the followers of the music
31:45
Speaker 1: of the Steve Miller Band from nineteen eighty two and
31:48
Speaker 1: more recently Lady Gaga. I remember when I was a
31:51
Speaker 1: kid growing up in these fifties and sixties stage magicians
31:55
Speaker 1: using it when they were doing their magical incantations in practice.
31:58
Speaker 1: What is the origin of this word and what is
32:01
Speaker 1: its power?
32:03
Speaker 2: So it's thought to be come from an ancient Aramaic word,
32:09
Speaker 2: and usually it's written in a pyramid form. You have
32:14
Speaker 2: the whole word abracadabras spelled an upside down pyramid, so
32:20
Speaker 2: the base of the pyramid, and then it descends down
32:23
Speaker 2: into the letter A, spelling it over and over and
32:26
Speaker 2: over again. And so that visual term was probably used
32:31
Speaker 2: to try to reduce illness, because it's kind of a reduction.
32:38
Speaker 2: It also references an ancient way of saying, I say it,
32:44
Speaker 2: and it is. And now we have an opposite meaning
32:49
Speaker 2: of it, which is like you can say abracadabra sarcastically
32:52
Speaker 2: like oh this is you know, this is not real.
32:55
Speaker 2: So it's kind of a couple meanings.
32:59
Speaker 1: How we're spelled used in ancient agriculture, well The.
33:04
Speaker 2: Way I would talk about this is to say, and
33:07
Speaker 2: I teach really fun botany classes like plant humanities classes
33:13
Speaker 2: at my college. Storytelling through botany is one of them.
33:16
Speaker 2: And the thing that we talk about is in the
33:21
Speaker 2: ancient world and in the medieval world, and until fairly recently,
33:25
Speaker 2: magic and science and medicine and art were all the
33:31
Speaker 2: same things, right, They're all trying to investigate and explain
33:35
Speaker 2: the world. And so these processes by which you know,
33:40
Speaker 2: we know to plant the miracle next to the tomato,
33:45
Speaker 2: that could be seen as a magic manifestation, or it
33:48
Speaker 2: could be seen as an invisible force working upon the world.
33:53
Speaker 2: So when we look at some of the ancient agricultural systems,
33:57
Speaker 2: or you know, in my plant book, I talk about
34:00
Speaker 2: companion planting and ways to design your garden for either
34:07
Speaker 2: magical or herbal outcomes. These things are all really interconnected.
34:12
Speaker 2: They all speak to the interconnectedness of life and systems
34:16
Speaker 2: and how there are processes unseen at work in the world.
34:22
Speaker 1: In your book, you share a spell that was used
34:25
Speaker 1: with mirrors. What was the purpose of this spell and
34:28
Speaker 1: would you share it with us?
34:30
Speaker 2: Yes, this spell is from the Pikatrix, which is from
34:34
Speaker 2: eleventh century Spain, probably Moorish in origin. And I can
34:39
Speaker 2: say from my own memory. You know, if you were
34:43
Speaker 2: walking in the forest and you came upon a tree
34:45
Speaker 2: and you saw mirrors under it, or a couple mirrors
34:49
Speaker 2: near it, some kind of spell work has happened. People
34:53
Speaker 2: use mirrors in all different ranges of magic. In this spell, oh,
35:03
Speaker 2: I'll just read it and then we can talk about
35:04
Speaker 2: what it means. A spell for a mirror. If you
35:09
Speaker 2: have a mirror, guard it well, gaze into it, knowing
35:14
Speaker 2: within you will bring together winds, spirits, demons, the living
35:19
Speaker 2: and the dead. All summoned shall be obedient to you
35:24
Speaker 2: and heed your command. You will thereby have power over winds, spirits,
35:30
Speaker 2: and demons, And so you shall do what you wish.
35:35
Speaker 2: Over a basin of full water. When you are washed
35:39
Speaker 2: and clean, call them. They will come to you obediently.
35:44
Speaker 2: Soon you will behold the fulfillment of what you seek.
35:49
Speaker 2: So this instruction is less than an incantation. It's more
35:56
Speaker 2: of a poetic instruction of how to cast as summoning
35:59
Speaker 2: sell Using a mirror and a basin of water, you
36:03
Speaker 2: can call the winds and the spirits and the demons
36:06
Speaker 2: and tell them what you need them to do.
36:09
Speaker 1: And what's the magical power of the mirror?
36:12
Speaker 2: That's a good question. I Across traditions, they can mean
36:19
Speaker 2: different things. Mirrors can be portals for some people, like
36:24
Speaker 2: it is in this spell. The mirrors at the base
36:28
Speaker 2: of a magic spell can also act like protection, kind
36:32
Speaker 2: of reflecting light away from what needs to be accomplished.
36:38
Speaker 2: But also, I don't know, I think there's so many
36:41
Speaker 2: different ways we use mirrors in our stories. You know,
36:46
Speaker 2: beings appear in mirrors behind us. Some beings can't be
36:50
Speaker 2: seen in mirrors, so they're definitely a magical object.
36:56
Speaker 1: And seeing our own reflection and aspiring to a new reflection. Yeah,
37:04
Speaker 1: you offer a spell to conjure a spirit for assistance.
37:09
Speaker 1: Who's the spirit being conjured and what assistance may be manifested?
37:14
Speaker 2: So this spell is coming from the tradition of whodoo,
37:20
Speaker 2: which is like a tradition that's really indigenous to America
37:24
Speaker 2: but has roots in African traditions and indigenous traditions. And
37:32
Speaker 2: so this is you would imagine a spirit that you
37:37
Speaker 2: feel would help you, and usually the person would be
37:42
Speaker 2: thinking of a specific former friend or ancestor or someone
37:48
Speaker 2: who's departed who we think can be of help. And
37:52
Speaker 2: it says, Oh, eternal, omnipotent God, who has formed every
37:58
Speaker 2: creature in your image. I beseech THEE to send unto
38:01
Speaker 2: me a teaching spirit, for I must learn concerning the
38:06
Speaker 2: things I ask the nature of Thine will oh that
38:10
Speaker 2: then will be done. Amen. So it's got a very
38:15
Speaker 2: religious language. It also has instructions repeat this conjuring three times.
38:22
Speaker 2: If the spirit appereth not, repeat the conjuration thrice again.
38:27
Speaker 2: Write these conjurations only on fresh parchment, followed by the
38:32
Speaker 2: license to depart, And then it has a license to
38:36
Speaker 2: depart that then you can write, having obtained from the
38:41
Speaker 2: Spirit that which you desire, you shall send it away
38:45
Speaker 2: with these words peacefully quietly. You came and answered unto
38:51
Speaker 2: me my question. I return THEE, carrying my thanks unto
38:56
Speaker 2: he in whose name thou hast come. Depart hence in peace,
39:02
Speaker 2: unto thine dwelling in the other world. But keep listening
39:06
Speaker 2: and be thou ready to return. Amen.
39:10
Speaker 1: Amen, thank you for sharing that with us. My guest
39:13
Speaker 1: is Enid Baxter Rice. Her book Ancient Spells and Incantations
39:18
Speaker 1: Echoes of Magic through the Ages and across cultures, We'll
39:22
Speaker 1: be back with more after these words on the Own
39:24
Speaker 1: Times Radio network.
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Speaker 1: Back on Destination Unlimited. My guest this week Enid Baxter Rice.
43:15
Speaker 1: We're talking about her new book, Ancient Spells and Incantations
43:19
Speaker 1: Echoes of Magic through the Ages and Across Cultures. Enid,
43:25
Speaker 1: you actually had touched upon some of the more spiritual
43:29
Speaker 1: and religious toned spells in your book. There's one that's
43:33
Speaker 1: based on the natural extensions of the power of the
43:37
Speaker 1: spoken word, calling ask angels for assistance. Would you share
43:41
Speaker 1: that with us?
43:42
Speaker 2: Sure? This one comes from twelfth century Thebes, from the
43:46
Speaker 2: Sworn Book of Honorious and it says to ask angels
43:51
Speaker 2: for assistance, Oh you angels of Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, the Sun, Venus, Mercury,
43:59
Speaker 2: and the Boon mighty in heaven, in the clouds, and
44:03
Speaker 2: in the abyss, We behold in this the world's design.
44:08
Speaker 2: Whereupon the spirit calls to our spirits. May the love
44:12
Speaker 2: of God join us, May his power direct us, May
44:16
Speaker 2: his mercy connect us, you who created us, and design
44:20
Speaker 2: the world with the word. Your names have terrific power,
44:26
Speaker 2: most high, most holy, most distinguished, most powerful, strong, just, blessed, merciful, sweet, helper, protector, defender, generous, giver, merciful,
44:41
Speaker 2: whose power is beyond all words, such that nature is indivisible,
44:47
Speaker 2: knowledge is priceless, truth is unchangeable, Mercy is immeasurable, Essence
44:55
Speaker 2: is incorruptible, and the heavens and earth are full of
44:59
Speaker 2: glorious grid race. I humbly invoke and beseech you that
45:03
Speaker 2: you come here to this circle in a perceptible and
45:07
Speaker 2: agreeable form to answer all my questions. I command you
45:12
Speaker 2: angels through the virtue of that one.
45:16
Speaker 4: Amen.
45:17
Speaker 2: One imagine that this is a you know, one of
45:20
Speaker 2: the spells where one would draw a circle, and you
45:24
Speaker 2: know you're inviting it to come into the circle with you.
45:28
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you offer some incantations for rain making. Is this
45:33
Speaker 1: found in many traditions?
45:35
Speaker 2: Yes, it is found everywhere, even places that where rain
45:42
Speaker 2: happens a lot. People need their agriculture to be watered.
45:47
Speaker 2: They need to live and survive with water. Every culture
45:52
Speaker 2: has mechanisms asking for rain, so ask for sun. Also,
45:57
Speaker 2: there's some really great weather in cantations and no huaddle
46:01
Speaker 2: from pre Columbian times. Our people are asking all kinds
46:06
Speaker 2: of questions of the gods about strengthening the vines they're growing,
46:11
Speaker 2: and holding off on having earthquakes, and definitely asking for rain.
46:16
Speaker 1: Well, we just came through Saint Valentine's Day on February fourteenth,
46:21
Speaker 1: and one would think there must be endless list of
46:25
Speaker 1: love spells. Is there one that you'd like to share
46:27
Speaker 1: with us?
46:28
Speaker 2: Sure, I'll be happy to Yeah, it's amazing when you
46:33
Speaker 2: consider how many pop songs are about love more than
46:37
Speaker 2: anything else. You know, love drives us. I like this one.
46:43
Speaker 2: It's an Inuit incantation. I dreamed of you last night.
46:49
Speaker 2: I dreamed of you. I dreamed you were walking on
46:52
Speaker 2: the pebbled shore and I was walking with you. I
46:56
Speaker 2: dreamed the rocky sounds of our footsteps. I dreamed of you.
47:01
Speaker 2: I dreamed I follow you. You were like a young seal.
47:05
Speaker 2: I wanted you the way the hunter hungers for a
47:08
Speaker 2: young seal whose sensing it is being followed, dives. That's
47:14
Speaker 2: how I wanted you. I who dreamed of you.
47:17
Speaker 1: Beautiful, beautiful? Is there anything wrong with using a love spell?
47:24
Speaker 2: I write about this in my in my introduction, I
47:28
Speaker 2: think there's you know, I think it's wonderful to think
47:30
Speaker 2: loving thoughts about people. I think that you can't make
47:36
Speaker 2: someone love you sadly, but you can definitely focus intention
47:42
Speaker 2: on bringing that forward your relationship with someone, and as
47:48
Speaker 2: long as you keep it uncreepy, it's okay. Otherwise you're
47:55
Speaker 2: moving into the land of curses. And there is a
47:58
Speaker 2: chapter in this book of curses, but I don't want
48:00
Speaker 2: to read them out loud, and many of them have
48:03
Speaker 2: lots to do with unrequited.
48:06
Speaker 1: Love, I can imagine, you know. The funny thing is
48:10
Speaker 1: is that what I found in my own life is
48:13
Speaker 1: that you have to love yourself first before you can
48:15
Speaker 1: get anyone else to love you. So I think that's
48:18
Speaker 1: an important lesson that many have to learn.
48:20
Speaker 2: So that's yeah, that's true.
48:23
Speaker 1: With the turmoil our world is experiencing, how many spells
48:28
Speaker 1: be used for protection?
48:32
Speaker 2: Yes, I have a whole chapter of protection spells, and
48:38
Speaker 2: I think it's really powerful to pick some out, and
48:42
Speaker 2: if they help you to calm yourself and stay in
48:45
Speaker 2: the moment and place you're in, then that is a
48:49
Speaker 2: wonderful thing to do. But there are protection spells from
48:54
Speaker 2: so many different things, specific illnesses or specific people, or
49:01
Speaker 2: specific speech or the evil eye. It's something that human
49:06
Speaker 2: beings have sought from healers and mystics through all time.
49:14
Speaker 1: And in incantation of a protection spell, does one visualize
49:19
Speaker 1: that there's this shield around them.
49:22
Speaker 2: I like to imagine a shield of golden light around me,
49:29
Speaker 2: and like that is from within and without me, and
49:33
Speaker 2: I you know, you have to visualize that which resonates
49:37
Speaker 2: for you. When I want to protect my heart, I
49:41
Speaker 2: visualize the color green, and I protect my heart by
49:45
Speaker 2: imagining it's so powerful that there's a green field around me.
49:50
Speaker 1: So you're using the color of the heart chakra I am.
49:53
Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of chakra meditation. I taught my
49:57
Speaker 2: children how to do it, and when they were very young,
49:59
Speaker 2: when they would really struggle with sleep, we would go
50:02
Speaker 2: through and breathe the colors, and I put my hand
50:06
Speaker 2: on the base of their spine and ask them to
50:09
Speaker 2: breathe in the color red and say things that were
50:12
Speaker 2: red while they breathed, and we'd move all the way
50:15
Speaker 2: up and by the time we got to the top
50:17
Speaker 2: of their heads and we were talking about gold, they
50:19
Speaker 2: were asleep.
50:20
Speaker 1: Wonderful. What about using that type of energy to open
50:24
Speaker 1: up the third eye?
50:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's part of that meditation would be to imagine
50:32
Speaker 2: the center of your forehead. I'm right now, I'm running
50:35
Speaker 2: my finger in a circle around in between my eyes.
50:39
Speaker 2: Just subconsciously started doing it when you said that, And
50:42
Speaker 2: I imagine it as a beautiful violet, glowing circle. And
50:50
Speaker 2: you can breathe in that violet color to the circle
50:54
Speaker 2: on your forehead and breathe out. And as you breathe,
51:00
Speaker 2: and you can imagine your bringing up all of your
51:03
Speaker 2: intuition and bringing up all of your otherworldly perception, and
51:10
Speaker 2: you can then start to listen to what happens inside
51:14
Speaker 2: your body. And that's where you're going to really connect
51:16
Speaker 2: with what people call your gut feelings. Right, You're going
51:20
Speaker 2: to really gain intuition and gain insight into what's sometimes
51:26
Speaker 2: a really complex and confounding world.
51:29
Speaker 1: Absolutely, speaking of which, is there a spell for the
51:34
Speaker 1: restoration of humanity and kindness?
51:38
Speaker 2: I really love this simple loving kindness incantation that comes
51:43
Speaker 2: from Buddhism. May all creatures be safe, may all creatures
51:48
Speaker 2: be healthy, may all people be at ease.
51:53
Speaker 1: Absolutely, what do you think we need to do in
51:56
Speaker 1: this world right now to open our hearts to our
51:59
Speaker 1: sisters and brothers and make this world a better place
52:02
Speaker 1: to live in.
52:04
Speaker 4: I think.
52:06
Speaker 2: Two things. I think one is to be in person
52:09
Speaker 2: with each other. It's really really easy to get alienated
52:16
Speaker 2: when you are on a screen. It's simultaneously lonely and
52:22
Speaker 2: an illusion of connection that's really toxic for us, especially
52:27
Speaker 2: for children. And the other thing I would say is
52:31
Speaker 2: that we should try as much as we can to
52:36
Speaker 2: focus on reconnecting our children's childhood to nature and the
52:41
Speaker 2: living world so that they can build the architecture to
52:47
Speaker 2: grow into resilient and loving adults. There was a book
52:50
Speaker 2: that was written years ago called Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam,
52:55
Speaker 2: and it diagnosed a problem in American society this is
52:59
Speaker 2: more than twenty year years ago, which is that people
53:02
Speaker 2: weren't joining clubs and organizations like bowling leagues or churches
53:08
Speaker 2: or other kinds of fraternal orders, and that we were
53:13
Speaker 2: becoming fragmented as people. And he predicted that the best
53:18
Speaker 2: thing you could do for your health would be to
53:20
Speaker 2: join some kind of community organization or a club, and
53:25
Speaker 2: that prediction has been born out to be true by
53:28
Speaker 2: recent repeated studies that you increase your vitality, your chance
53:38
Speaker 2: of making it through the year alive by like fifty
53:41
Speaker 2: percent if you join some kind of social group. So
53:46
Speaker 2: being in connection and in communion with each other in
53:50
Speaker 2: the real world and also trying to facilitate that for
53:53
Speaker 2: our children is going to make a huge difference.
53:57
Speaker 1: And I would add organizations that offer serve the others.
54:02
Speaker 2: I mean, their old saying is if you're feeling blue,
54:06
Speaker 2: go outside and ask your neighbor if they need some
54:08
Speaker 2: help and paint their fence, and you'll feel cheer right up. Yeah,
54:12
Speaker 2: it's something really wonderful that my family when we volunteer
54:19
Speaker 2: together at the local school running an art club on
54:23
Speaker 2: Saturdays at Saturday school, and so we get time together
54:26
Speaker 2: and then it's something we all enjoy. So if you
54:29
Speaker 2: are in a family unit and you think about what's
54:34
Speaker 2: something you guys all value and enjoy together, and then
54:36
Speaker 2: how can you provide that joy? How can you share
54:39
Speaker 2: that joy with others in a way that helps them.
54:42
Speaker 1: Beautiful passing it down to the next generation. What would
54:45
Speaker 1: you like readers to take away from ancient spells and incantations?
54:50
Speaker 2: I would like them to feel connected to people who
54:55
Speaker 2: lived thousands of years ago, hundreds of years ago, ten
54:58
Speaker 2: years ago. See how universal the experiences of wanting love
55:05
Speaker 2: and protection and feeling frustrated or wishing for power. That
55:11
Speaker 2: these are all universal feelings. You know, when you feel lonely,
55:17
Speaker 2: you are not alone? Yeah.
55:20
Speaker 1: Absolutely, My guest, Enid Baxter Rice her book Ancient Spells
55:25
Speaker 1: and Incantations Echoes of Magic through the Ages and across
55:29
Speaker 1: cultures in it one more time, please share with our
55:32
Speaker 1: listeners where they can get all of your books and
55:33
Speaker 1: find out more about you and your amazing work.
55:36
Speaker 2: Thank you. My books are available wherever books are sold,
55:41
Speaker 2: that includes your local bookshop or things like Amazon and
55:45
Speaker 2: Barnes and Noble. And my website is my first name
55:50
Speaker 2: e Ni D and my last name Rice roycee enidrice
55:56
Speaker 2: dot com.
55:57
Speaker 1: And Ancient Spells and Incantations is that actually available for
56:01
Speaker 1: pre order right now? Is that correct?
56:02
Speaker 8: It is?
56:03
Speaker 2: It's available for pre order, and that is honestly, the
56:06
Speaker 2: best way you can help authors is to pre order
56:08
Speaker 2: their books.
56:09
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Enid, thank you so much for joining us and
56:12
Speaker 1: sharing all of this amazing wisdom you've accumulated.
56:15
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I love talking with you.
56:18
Speaker 6: Today.
56:19
Speaker 1: Thank you, the feeling is mutual, and thank you for
56:21
Speaker 1: joining us on Destination Unlimited. I'm Victor l Voice Furman.
56:25
Speaker 1: Have a wonderful week.