Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #468 Jason Flom with Terrel Barros

Transcript

#468 Jason Flom with Terrel Barros · Wrongful Conviction

0:06
Speaker 1: We initially released Terrell Barrows's story on June twenty fourth,
0:09
Speaker 1: twenty twenty based on newly discovered evidence and witnesses. His
0:13
Speaker 1: conviction was vacated and he was released on bail on
0:15
Speaker 1: August fifteenth, twenty twenty three, right into the arms of
0:19
Speaker 1: his mother. I remember getting the call from his advocate,
0:22
Speaker 1: Nurjana Hindi, one of the former students with Georgetown's making
0:26
Speaker 1: an xana ree class, and I think I I think
0:29
Speaker 1: I almost passed out. Honestly, I was so excited and
0:31
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to hear the good news, and we
0:35
Speaker 1: hope that now Rhode Island will do the right thing
0:38
Speaker 1: and dismiss all the charges. Here's our original coverage from
0:42
Speaker 1: when Terrell was still on the inside. August twenty six,
0:48
Speaker 1: twenty twelve, started off as a relatively normal night. Terrell
0:52
Speaker 1: Barrows was at Monet Lounge in Providence, Rhode Island, with
0:55
Speaker 1: Stephan Boden and some other friends.
0:57
Speaker 2: In disagreement ensued between Stephan and two other clubgoers, Rokeem
1:02
Speaker 2: Henley and Jamal Cruz, but the tension didn't boil over
1:06
Speaker 2: until later in the parking lot. See Stefanboden wanted his
1:10
Speaker 2: cigarettes and he would ask Torell for his car keys
1:13
Speaker 2: because that's where they were, So he left ahead of
1:15
Speaker 2: the group, and as fate would have it, who was
1:18
Speaker 2: parked right next to Terrell, but Jamal and Rokeem, who
1:22
Speaker 2: were now ominously approaching. Terrell and the rest of his friends, though,
1:27
Speaker 2: were just arriving on the scene and trying to avoid
1:29
Speaker 2: the drama, So Terrell made for the driver's side door,
1:32
Speaker 2: and then gunshots. Terrell quickly ducked into the driver's seat
1:38
Speaker 2: and Stephan bod jumped into the passenger side. Seconds later,
1:41
Speaker 2: the cops were at the car and they saw Stepan
1:44
Speaker 2: trying to hide the gun. Stepan confessed on the spot
1:48
Speaker 2: to the shooting as both.
1:49
Speaker 1: Men were cuffed.
1:51
Speaker 2: An intoxicated and mortally wounded Jamal Cruz had put his
1:55
Speaker 2: head down when shown Terrell a far cry from an identification,
1:59
Speaker 2: but that didn't stop a detective from testifying a trial
2:03
Speaker 2: about a quote unquote dying declaration. The state even ignored
2:08
Speaker 2: Stephan Boden's immediate and uncoerced confession, forging blindly ahead to
2:14
Speaker 2: ultimately send Torell to prison, where he remains to this day,
2:18
Speaker 2: serving two consecutive life sentences plus thirty years. This is
2:24
Speaker 2: Wrongful Conviction with Jason Plomm. Wrongful Conviction has always given
2:32
Speaker 2: voice to innocent people in prison, and now we're expanding
2:35
Speaker 2: that voice to you. Call us at eight three three
2:39
Speaker 2: two oh seven four six sixty six and tell us
2:42
Speaker 2: how these stories make you feel and what you've done
2:44
Speaker 2: to help the cause, even if it's something as simple
2:47
Speaker 2: as telling a friend or sharing on social media, and
2:50
Speaker 2: you might just hear yourself in a future episode. Call
2:54
Speaker 2: us A three three two oh seven four six sixty six.
3:07
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom. Today we're
3:11
Speaker 2: going to be discussing the really troubling case of Terrell Barrows,
3:15
Speaker 2: who was wrongfully convicted of a shooting in which one
3:19
Speaker 2: person was killed and another was badly injured. And with
3:22
Speaker 2: us today we have a student at Georgetown who's been
3:26
Speaker 2: doing incredible work investigating his case under the leadership of
3:29
Speaker 2: my friend, Professor Mark Howard. So Nurgenna Hendy, welcome to
3:34
Speaker 2: the show.
3:35
Speaker 3: Thank you, Jason.
3:36
Speaker 2: The Georgetown class that Nurgenna is a student in is
3:40
Speaker 2: taught by Mark Howard and a name that you'll recognize
3:43
Speaker 2: from being on our show more than once. Marty Tankleff,
3:46
Speaker 2: and of course this class was directly responsible for the
3:50
Speaker 2: exoneration of Valentino Dixon. If you haven't heard his episode,
3:55
Speaker 2: please go back and listen to it. It's extraordinary. So
3:58
Speaker 2: we hope to be hearing from Terrell Barrows very soon.
4:01
Speaker 2: Of course, in this COVID time that we're in, it's
4:04
Speaker 2: very hard to get to the phones in prison, but
4:07
Speaker 2: we will be discussing his case and hopefully hearing from
4:10
Speaker 2: him as the podcast progresses. So let's go back to
4:16
Speaker 2: twenty twelve.
4:18
Speaker 4: Back in August of twenty twelve, Terrell Barrows and a
4:22
Speaker 4: group of friends headed out to Monet Lounge in Providence,
4:27
Speaker 4: Rhode Island. While they're in the club, there's some sort
4:30
Speaker 4: of verbal altercation between Terrell's group and a couple of
4:33
Speaker 4: members of another group, including the two that got shot.
4:36
Speaker 4: One was Rokeem Henley, who got shot in the leg
4:39
Speaker 4: and who I spoke with a couple of times over
4:41
Speaker 4: the past few months, and then Jamal Cruz who ended
4:44
Speaker 4: up dying that night. But Terrell wasn't a part of
4:47
Speaker 4: that verbal altercation. It was stuff in Boden who was
4:51
Speaker 4: and so a name was called Someone's hat got tapped
4:53
Speaker 4: off their head and then no one really stays. There's
4:56
Speaker 4: not a physical altercation at all. Later on in the night,
5:00
Speaker 4: Stephan Bowden asked Terrell. He goes, hey, let me get
5:03
Speaker 4: the tack to go get your car keys. So as
5:05
Speaker 4: he's heading over, there is another car that is parked
5:10
Speaker 4: bumper to bumper with Terrell's car, and it just happens
5:14
Speaker 4: to be the car of Jamal Cruz.
5:17
Speaker 3: Stephen thought that.
5:19
Speaker 4: Jamal and roe Keem were coming to cause problems, when
5:23
Speaker 4: in reality they were just walking to their car. Stefan
5:26
Speaker 4: grabs the gun and you know, witnesses say he told
5:30
Speaker 4: them don't come any closer. And at this point Terrell
5:34
Speaker 4: starts heading over to his car with his group of friends.
5:37
Speaker 4: Terrell is about ten to fifteen feet away from Stefan
5:40
Speaker 4: Bowden and Jamal Cruz, which is where all eyewitnesses placed
5:43
Speaker 4: him as well, and he's actually walking to get to
5:46
Speaker 4: the other side of his car to hop in the
5:48
Speaker 4: driver's seat because he knows that there's trouble about to
5:51
Speaker 4: happen he doesn't want to be a part of it.
5:53
Speaker 4: He hears two gun shots, he jumps into the driver's
5:56
Speaker 4: seat and almost immediately Stefan jumps into the passat and
6:00
Speaker 4: the cops are there to arrest them.
6:02
Speaker 2: And there's more to this too, because when Stephan jumped
6:05
Speaker 2: into the passenger seat, he had it sort of a
6:08
Speaker 2: moment of self awareness right where he started apologizing to
6:12
Speaker 2: Terrell for sort of involving him in this.
6:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.
6:17
Speaker 4: At this point, the arresting officers are on either side
6:22
Speaker 4: and the gun is still with Stephan Bowden. He is
6:25
Speaker 4: caught concealing the gun in the passenger side door, and
6:28
Speaker 4: Stefan actually confesses on the scene. He said it's me,
6:32
Speaker 4: It's all me, It's all mine. Yet they are both arrested,
6:37
Speaker 4: taken to a paddy wagon, and then there's a show
6:40
Speaker 4: up that is done. Now they spoke with a couple
6:43
Speaker 4: of jury members who told me this is what caused
6:46
Speaker 4: us to believe Terrell is guilty. So in the show ups,
6:51
Speaker 4: they bring Stephan over to Jamal, who was in critical
6:53
Speaker 4: condition on the floor, extremely intoxicated, and they say, is
6:58
Speaker 4: this the man that shot you? And Jamal looks away.
7:02
Speaker 4: Apparently when they bring over Terrell, Detective Matrasia says, Jamal.
7:07
Speaker 2: Nods, that's what they say he did. It doesn't matter
7:10
Speaker 2: if he nodded or not. He was in no position
7:12
Speaker 2: to make any identification of anyone, and we still don't
7:15
Speaker 2: know if he did. It's not like he stuck his
7:17
Speaker 2: finger out and went, yeah, that's the guy who shot me.
7:20
Speaker 2: Then he's out right, that's not what happened.
7:23
Speaker 4: They actually did not even do a show up identification
7:26
Speaker 4: with the other guy, Rokeim Henley, who was shot and
7:29
Speaker 4: he was not in critical condition.
7:31
Speaker 2: They also didn't bother to swab the hands of either
7:33
Speaker 2: Terrell or Stephan, right, that would be so critical to
7:38
Speaker 2: figuring out who did or did not commit this horrible crime.
7:42
Speaker 4: And Jason, I think it was clear to arresting officers
7:45
Speaker 4: this had to have been Stephan. It was in his hand,
7:48
Speaker 4: he confesses. That's probably why they didn't even swab their hands.
7:53
Speaker 4: And then you know, somehow the story gets twisted and
7:56
Speaker 4: it's now in Terrell because of what they call a
7:59
Speaker 4: dying duck. Terrell Owas says, he goes, there were two
8:03
Speaker 4: lives lost that night, Mine and Jamal Cruz. And I
8:07
Speaker 4: feel bad because Jamal Cruz didn't get justice.
8:14
Speaker 5: This is a free call from row, an inmate at
8:18
Speaker 5: maximum security facility. Thank you for using securists. You may
8:22
Speaker 5: start the conversation now.
8:25
Speaker 2: I love Heyterrell, thanks for calling in. I know we
8:30
Speaker 2: have limited time, so this woul get right to it.
8:33
Speaker 2: Can you take us back to the awful night of
8:35
Speaker 2: this crime and give us your perspective having lived through
8:39
Speaker 2: this night, Mary yourself.
8:41
Speaker 5: Well.
8:41
Speaker 6: Back at that night and the two dudes approached, you know,
8:44
Speaker 6: we're talking to Stuffan about something. The problem wasn't with me,
8:48
Speaker 6: so we went outside in the front of the club,
8:51
Speaker 6: Stephond one of my keys, to go get it figures.
8:53
Speaker 6: So when we go to the top, the two dings approaching.
8:56
Speaker 6: So I see them two dudes. I'm like, oh man,
8:58
Speaker 6: here we go. So I try to down to go
9:01
Speaker 6: with Javiside in the car and I hear shots, so
9:04
Speaker 6: I just run into my car. Since I run in
9:06
Speaker 6: my car, pp is like on us, he had the
9:09
Speaker 6: gun on me. He put your hands on a stading wheel.
9:11
Speaker 6: I put my hands on standing wheel and he keeps
9:14
Speaker 6: on saying it. But he's talking to Stepan, So he
9:17
Speaker 6: puts his hands on the standing wheel and he's like, yo,
9:19
Speaker 6: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I love y'all, love you. The
9:21
Speaker 6: police officers hopping up and he's like, oh yo, the
9:24
Speaker 6: passions has got the gun. So as soon as he
9:27
Speaker 6: opens up the door, Stephan says, it's me. It's all me,
9:30
Speaker 6: It's all mine. He's like it's shoot. He's like, yeah,
9:32
Speaker 6: it's me. So when he took him out, he's already
9:36
Speaker 6: hearing come from the other cop that had the gun
9:37
Speaker 6: on us. He comes, he flashed the cuffs on the wrist,
9:40
Speaker 6: my wrists and slings me on the floor. Brings it
9:43
Speaker 6: back to the paddy wagon. There's a guy that was shot.
9:46
Speaker 6: I didn't know no one was shot. I could see
9:49
Speaker 6: blood every this dude's hurt. So this dude shot in
9:52
Speaker 6: the chest. And this dude's like doing a show up
9:55
Speaker 6: with this guy shot in the chest, asking him this
9:57
Speaker 6: sin descend to shin. The guy just looked at me
10:00
Speaker 6: and put his head down. He didn't say nothing, he
10:02
Speaker 6: didn't do nothing. He ain't saying nothing. He just put
10:05
Speaker 6: his head down. So then they had put me back
10:07
Speaker 6: into patty wagon. They bring me back to the station,
10:10
Speaker 6: and they bring me back the station and you know
10:12
Speaker 6: they do the mob shot the finger prints, whether they
10:14
Speaker 6: got me to a room or two detectives. I asked
10:17
Speaker 6: for my lawyer to touch his Angelo Levon was the
10:20
Speaker 6: lead detect He was the one that questioned me the
10:22
Speaker 6: first time in the first night. So he's like, oh,
10:25
Speaker 6: you know he wants cigarette. You want a cigarett. I'm
10:26
Speaker 6: like no. He's like, you want a water. I'm like no.
10:29
Speaker 6: And he kept on chrying to talk to me, and
10:31
Speaker 6: I'm like, I want my lawyer. I want my lawyer.
10:33
Speaker 6: I want my lawyer. So he leaves the room and
10:36
Speaker 6: he comes back and he brings back to hold himself.
10:39
Speaker 6: So it's one of the times I'm like, yo, I'm
10:42
Speaker 6: banging on the door. Cap comes, He's like, O what
10:44
Speaker 6: you're banging. Don'm like, I want my phone call. He's
10:46
Speaker 6: like phone call. I'm like yeah. He's like, are you
10:49
Speaker 6: get to play? Phone calls? Were up going? I'm like,
10:51
Speaker 6: where am I going. He's like, You're gonna kill What
10:55
Speaker 6: the hell? They bring me in the bus they chance
10:58
Speaker 6: put me there and I find out one day the
11:01
Speaker 6: raiment and I'm getting charge with murder. I go up
11:04
Speaker 6: into the courtroom a split up. Stephan was on the
11:07
Speaker 6: left side on the right side, so they reach stuff
11:09
Speaker 6: in his charges seven bolroom possession of firearm, and that
11:13
Speaker 6: was that. He goes with Crell Barrow's first degree murder.
11:16
Speaker 6: I'm like, they charge me with murder. I'm Paul is
11:20
Speaker 6: showing everything I love. I did not do it. He
11:24
Speaker 6: admitted it on the scene to the cop. That's the
11:27
Speaker 6: part I don't understand.
11:29
Speaker 2: I don't understand it either, because it should have been
11:32
Speaker 2: over right then and there.
11:34
Speaker 6: They told me I got to get up the phone.
11:36
Speaker 5: Okay, the caller has hung up.
11:49
Speaker 2: You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this
11:52
Speaker 2: and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early
11:55
Speaker 2: and ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus
11:58
Speaker 2: on Apple Podcasts. I have never and may never again
12:09
Speaker 2: hear of a case in which the actual shooter skates
12:14
Speaker 2: on the charges after confessing on the scene. Right, I mean,
12:19
Speaker 2: at that point, this should be a very short podcast.
12:22
Speaker 2: That should be the end of it. I mean, this
12:23
Speaker 2: would be funny, except it's so freaking serious. Right, and
12:27
Speaker 2: this is the system that we all rely on day
12:31
Speaker 2: in and day out. I'd like to believe that we
12:33
Speaker 2: have people who are doing the job that they're paid
12:36
Speaker 2: to do. But in this case, it's absolutely true. It
12:39
Speaker 2: failed society, it failed the victim, It failed to rell
12:44
Speaker 2: and that's what we're here to talk about. And then
12:46
Speaker 2: it gets weirder because then you start with the eyewitness.
12:49
Speaker 2: The only eyewitness is a guy named Gregory's or Obedient,
12:53
Speaker 2: and he initially claims he didn't see the shooting and
12:56
Speaker 2: then changed his testimony six days before the trial to
12:59
Speaker 2: say he saw to Rell do it. We have a
13:02
Speaker 2: document signed by the assist Attorney General promising not to
13:04
Speaker 2: charge him for perjury should he alter his testimony. That's
13:08
Speaker 2: maybe just a little bit of a red flag there.
13:10
Speaker 2: Now get this, Okay, this Gregory's or Obedient guy had
13:14
Speaker 2: well let's just call it an extensive criminal history, but
13:17
Speaker 2: that might not even be doing a justice. So his
13:20
Speaker 2: rap sheet went back thirty years. It included convictions not arrest,
13:25
Speaker 2: convictions for living off the earnings of a prostitute, grand larceny,
13:30
Speaker 2: dui causing death, cocaine possession, burglary, theft, escape, and that's
13:36
Speaker 2: just the beginning. So do we think that after doing
13:39
Speaker 2: all these other things he's done, he might be willing
13:42
Speaker 2: to lie in exchange for a deal? I would say
13:45
Speaker 2: that's a pretty good likelihood. And then let's get to
13:47
Speaker 2: Detective Charles Mtrasia. Do you want to take that one, Ojenna.
13:51
Speaker 4: He was actually the one who claims that he saw
13:54
Speaker 4: Jamal Cruz nod when they brought over. Terrell asked ROCITYO,
13:59
Speaker 4: were you watching Jamal? He said, yeah, I was watching him.
14:01
Speaker 4: I said, did he not? He said no, he didn't
14:03
Speaker 4: do anything, So whether he did or did not is
14:05
Speaker 4: another story. But again, Jamal Cruz was under the influence
14:08
Speaker 4: of alcohol. He had a BAC of point one six',
14:11
Speaker 4: two which seems like a lot until we look at rokem.
14:13
Speaker 3: Who had to actually HIRE bac as.
14:16
Speaker 4: Well and then Both Stephan andterrell were wearing WHITE t
14:20
Speaker 4: shirts and darker. Pants out of the group That terrell was,
14:24
Speaker 4: in he was not the only one with two long black.
14:27
Speaker 4: Braids he just. Wasn't it was a. Style if you
14:29
Speaker 4: look at the pictures of his friend, group he's not
14:32
Speaker 4: the only one with two long black. Braids and so
14:35
Speaker 4: out of a group of people wearing white, shirts dark,
14:39
Speaker 4: pants two long black, braids you're dying on the. Floor
14:42
Speaker 4: And Detective matrasia, says, yeah he nodded when we brought Over.
14:45
Speaker 4: TERRELL i, mean how unreal could that? Be and so
14:48
Speaker 4: now we're moving INTO gsr.
14:50
Speaker 2: TESTING gsr stands for gunshot residue.
14:53
Speaker 4: Yep and there are three particles of gunshot residue that
14:57
Speaker 4: they test for when they're looking at. Clothing so When
15:01
Speaker 4: stephan And terrell were initially, Arrested stephan was pulled out
15:06
Speaker 4: of the car and he was slammed against the side
15:09
Speaker 4: of the. Car When terrell was, arrested he was pulled
15:12
Speaker 4: out of the car and slammed to the, ground so
15:14
Speaker 4: he actually had some dirt on his white shirt in
15:16
Speaker 4: a specific.
15:17
Speaker 3: Area what they.
15:18
Speaker 4: Initially test was the chest area of Both terrell and Of,
15:24
Speaker 4: stephan because the theory is if someone is a shooter
15:28
Speaker 4: and they hold the gun straight, ahead that the gunshot
15:31
Speaker 4: residue will recoil and hit them in the chest. Area
15:34
Speaker 4: so they talk About, steffan they, go, well we found
15:36
Speaker 4: lead On, stepan and they, say, well you also found
15:39
Speaker 4: lead On. Terrell So terrell whispers to his, attorney ask
15:43
Speaker 4: if they happened to find the lead where my shirt was.
15:46
Speaker 4: Dirty they said, Yes so it makes sense that that's
15:49
Speaker 4: the only place on his clothing where they found. Lead
15:52
Speaker 4: so this is all the information they had in terms
15:55
Speaker 4: OF gsr at, trial but there is MORE gsr evidence
15:59
Speaker 4: to which is part of what we are motioning for
16:03
Speaker 4: with the new hearing coming.
16:04
Speaker 2: Up, well we're on, initials, right we'll go FROM gsr TO,
16:08
Speaker 2: dna and THE dna report excluded To ralp from having
16:11
Speaker 2: held the. Gun so let's touch for a second on
16:15
Speaker 2: THE dna expert for the, state who we know was,
16:19
Speaker 2: WELL i, mean, most unfortunately quote unquote experts are pro.
16:22
Speaker 2: Prosecution in, fact the whole system is pro. Prosecution over
16:25
Speaker 2: eighty percent of judges are former. Prosecutors so throughout the
16:30
Speaker 2: process there's a tilt towards, prosecution and the experts that
16:34
Speaker 2: you're seeing may not be objective at, all and this
16:37
Speaker 2: is one of those cases WHERE i think that there's
16:40
Speaker 2: a strong argument to that. Effect So, nujena can you
16:42
Speaker 2: talk about?
16:43
Speaker 4: That, Yeah Kara lapino gave extremely pro prosecution. Testimony in
16:48
Speaker 4: the way that she had presented. It the attorney would
16:51
Speaker 4: ask a question the, prosecutor she would respond and, say,
16:54
Speaker 4: Yes enteroll was.
16:55
Speaker 3: Included and then you all of a sudden get to.
16:57
Speaker 4: The very very very end and they really quickly sneak
17:00
Speaker 4: in a couple of lines Of terrell was excluded And
17:03
Speaker 4: Stefan BODDEN'S dna could not be. Excluded so When i'm
17:07
Speaker 4: talking to the, juror she, GOES i don't even really
17:11
Speaker 4: remember him being. Excluded it was so. Confusing there were
17:15
Speaker 4: a lot of numbers thrown. Out terrell seemed to be
17:18
Speaker 4: included in almost every mixture that they're talking. About it's
17:21
Speaker 4: absolutely insane and IF i was in the, JURY i
17:24
Speaker 4: would have thought the same.
17:25
Speaker 2: Thing the state's witness essentially muddy the waters of what
17:29
Speaker 2: was a pretty cut and DRY dna report that Excluded
17:33
Speaker 2: terrell from having ever held the. Gun but then There's Rokeem,
17:38
Speaker 2: henley the other guy who got shot that. Night his,
17:41
Speaker 2: testimony along with the ballistic evidence known at the time of,
17:44
Speaker 2: trial make it an actual impossibility That terrell could have
17:49
Speaker 2: been the.
17:49
Speaker 4: Shooter he does, testify and WHEN i asked him the
17:53
Speaker 4: same question WHEN i met with, him he, said the
17:56
Speaker 4: only person standing close To Jamal cruz Was. Boden SO i,
18:01
Speaker 4: said here's the. Discrepancy did you see who shot?
18:06
Speaker 3: You he said.
18:07
Speaker 4: NO i, said, okay, well ballistic evidence proves that the
18:13
Speaker 4: shot was made from near contact to eighteen inches, away
18:17
Speaker 4: and you are telling me that the only person standing
18:21
Speaker 4: near contact to eighteen inches away From Jamal cruz we
18:25
Speaker 4: Was Stefan. Bodden he, said, yes BUT i didn't see
18:28
Speaker 4: him shoot the. Gun it's kind of a confusing. Testimony
18:31
Speaker 4: you don't See steffan do, it but you also claim
18:35
Speaker 4: you did not See terrell. Outside you don't know Who terrell.
18:39
Speaker 4: Is the only time he Saw terrell was at. Trial
18:42
Speaker 4: so if rokeeem had never Seen terrell and the shot
18:45
Speaker 4: was made from near contact to eighteen inches, away it
18:48
Speaker 4: is impossible That terrell was the.
18:50
Speaker 2: Shooter, nevertheless the incentivized, witness the MUDDY dna, report and
18:55
Speaker 2: of course the testimony Of Detective matrasia with too much to,
18:59
Speaker 2: overcome And terrell was sentenced to two life sentences plus thirty.
19:04
Speaker 5: Years this is a free call From, roe an inmate
19:11
Speaker 5: at maximum security. Facility thank you for using. Securists you
19:16
Speaker 5: may start the conversation.
19:18
Speaker 2: NOW i Love, okay the investigators in Your, caseterrell it
19:24
Speaker 2: Was Detective atrasha And Detective, angelo, Right.
19:28
Speaker 6: Yeah Detective angelo was though he was the leader of the.
19:32
Speaker 6: Case matasha was the one that lied About jamal saying
19:36
Speaker 6: it was me at the show. Up so WHAT i
19:38
Speaker 6: was told was this from a lot of, lawyers and
19:40
Speaker 6: they all gave me the same. Answer you're in this.
19:43
Speaker 6: Situation they penned this on. You it's because you asked
19:47
Speaker 6: for your. LAWYER i asked my. Way that's not. Right they, said,
19:51
Speaker 6: yeah but you didn't tell them what they wanted to,
19:53
Speaker 6: hear and they threw it on. You jamal ain't, Here
19:58
Speaker 6: so you could cut any words in that man's if you,
20:00
Speaker 6: won't because you can't put him on a stand and
20:03
Speaker 6: cross examine. Him so what the cops. Do they go
20:06
Speaker 6: on the stand and they, think, no they, know they
20:10
Speaker 6: know that the jury look at them as. Superheroes the
20:13
Speaker 6: jury don't think that the cops are going to go
20:15
Speaker 6: on the stand and, lie and that's what they. Did
20:19
Speaker 6: And jamal ain't. Here now this is before this even
20:23
Speaker 6: going on With George. Floyd this wasn't like twenty, twelve twenty,
20:27
Speaker 6: Thirteen so around that time that climate was, like oh,
20:31
Speaker 6: no the publice ain't gonna lie on this, Kid.
20:33
Speaker 2: Torell you've gone through this insane. Nightmare everything that could
20:40
Speaker 2: go wrong has gone wrong so. Far but then comes
20:42
Speaker 2: the moment where the jury goes out and they come back.
20:45
Speaker 2: In did you think that they were going to find you?
20:47
Speaker 2: Innocent tell us about that.
20:49
Speaker 6: Moment they bring me down in the elevator to the court,
20:51
Speaker 6: room and they can just feel like the tension in
20:55
Speaker 6: the courtroom and the jury come in their faces are.
20:58
Speaker 6: Funny they SAID i was, guilty and then, everybody just my,
21:04
Speaker 6: family everybody was just like, nah he's in and say
21:07
Speaker 6: like they just went. Crazy i'm just sitting there like and.
21:10
Speaker 6: Shocked i'm in. Shock like everybody's standing. Up i'm the
21:13
Speaker 6: only one sitting down and what got me out of
21:16
Speaker 6: the chance As i've Seen Detective Angelo levon. Laughing SO i, said, yo.
21:24
Speaker 2: What you think this is?
21:25
Speaker 6: Funny they just looked at, me AND i looked At
21:28
Speaker 6: jamaal's family AND i turned around to. HIM i, SAID
21:31
Speaker 6: i didn't do this to your. SON i promise. YOU
21:34
Speaker 6: i promise. YOU i did not do this to your.
21:36
Speaker 6: SON i did not do. This they didn't get justice
21:39
Speaker 6: for your. Son they're lying to, you and they're just
21:41
Speaker 6: looking at me like in a. Shock everyone's going. Crazy
21:45
Speaker 6: so they're in that. Commotion i've seen the prosecutor like
21:48
Speaker 6: hugged the brother like like they wanted The Super, bowl
21:50
Speaker 6: smacking his back like, yeah, yeah we got. Him And
21:53
Speaker 6: i'm just looking at him like you're lying into this.
21:55
Speaker 6: Family like this is a big, lie like you just
21:57
Speaker 6: knowun an innocent kid, again they just want to take.
22:03
Speaker 6: CONVICTION i know they know why they do, it because
22:06
Speaker 6: the prosecutors do know when you see bogus, charges but
22:10
Speaker 6: you still go forward with it because you want a.
22:12
Speaker 6: Conviction they don't care.
22:14
Speaker 2: Yet, yeah they're thinking about their, future their, aspirations the
22:20
Speaker 2: way they can be, successful and they know that's by
22:23
Speaker 2: having a good conviction rate by and. Large but it's
22:25
Speaker 2: like it's some sort of six scoreboard and there are
22:29
Speaker 2: decent prosecutors out. There there's some really good ones, too
22:31
Speaker 2: but the ones that are willing to ignore evidence of
22:35
Speaker 2: innocence and prosecute clearly bogus cases like yours just to
22:39
Speaker 2: get another notch on their, belt just to move up
22:41
Speaker 2: the ladder Are they're a disgrace and they're actually a
22:45
Speaker 2: menace to public.
22:46
Speaker 6: Safety they use on that for the stepson to. Talk
22:49
Speaker 6: they want off family to make this family got. Them,
22:53
Speaker 6: yeah they just look at money sign like me, cattle.
22:59
Speaker 5: You.
22:59
Speaker 2: Know and as if this case couldn't get worse or,
23:11
Speaker 2: Weirder Stephan boden put out a. SONG i guess he
23:16
Speaker 2: was trying to rid himself of the guilt of skating
23:19
Speaker 2: on the murder rap and allowing his friend to rotten prison, right.
23:24
Speaker 3: He wrote this song Called letter To.
23:26
Speaker 4: Terrell it's really more of a guilt, trip saying things
23:31
Speaker 4: like we should have never went out to the club that.
23:33
Speaker 4: Night it's painful that you're in that. Cell it's painful
23:36
Speaker 4: on my, mother.
23:37
Speaker 2: And i'm sorry that you win that. Gym it's painful
23:39
Speaker 2: on my.
23:40
Speaker 4: Mother BUT i think about.
23:41
Speaker 2: You every day in. Life how is he out In
23:45
Speaker 2: terrell's in?
23:45
Speaker 4: Prison Stephan boden is now. Dead he was shot in
23:49
Speaker 4: a car shooting in twenty.
23:51
Speaker 2: Seventeen it's too. MUCH i, mean the good news is
23:58
Speaker 2: he's the only good news HERE i guess is that
24:00
Speaker 2: he's got a fantastic. Team now we've got some. Momentum
24:05
Speaker 2: can you talk about that new, evidence talk about his
24:07
Speaker 2: new lawyer and what lays.
24:08
Speaker 4: Ahead the original theory was if you hold a gun
24:12
Speaker 4: straight out in front of, you THE gsr or gunshot
24:15
Speaker 4: residue will fly back and hit the chest. Area AS
24:19
Speaker 4: i mentioned. Before, However Bob, Kando terrell's newer, attorney went
24:26
Speaker 4: ahead and looked at the trajectory of the bullets and
24:30
Speaker 4: he had a couple of questions about where the shot
24:32
Speaker 4: was actually made. From how is it possible That rokim
24:35
Speaker 4: didn't see the? Shooter how is it possible that If
24:38
Speaker 4: jamal gave a dying, declaration then he gave it to
24:40
Speaker 4: the wrong. Person and how is it possible that If
24:43
Speaker 4: stefan's the real, shooter we find only lead on. Him
24:47
Speaker 4: where are the other particles OF? Gsr So Bob kando
24:51
Speaker 4: goes ahead and puts in a request for other areas
24:55
Speaker 4: Of boden's clothing to be, analyzed including his cross and belt.
25:00
Speaker 4: Area lo and, behold they come back with more particles OF,
25:05
Speaker 4: gsr which ends up being huge. News putting together trajectory
25:09
Speaker 4: of the. Bullets putting TOGETHER, Gsr Stefan boden actually took
25:14
Speaker 4: the shots from right next to his. Belt he actually
25:17
Speaker 4: did not hold the gun straight. Ahead so if that
25:19
Speaker 4: were to, happen someone who's extremely intoxicated wouldn't be able
25:22
Speaker 4: to see the.
25:22
Speaker 3: Gun and WHEN i actually ended.
25:23
Speaker 4: Up speaking To rakim, LATER i, said, well you, know
25:26
Speaker 4: the new evidence really says that the gun was next to.
25:29
Speaker 4: Him he, responds he, goes, oh that might explain. It
25:33
Speaker 4: so that might explain Why rakem didn't see That stephan shot,
25:38
Speaker 4: Him so that's very. Exciting and with this new, evidence
25:41
Speaker 4: with the new affidavit that we have, written new eyewitnesses
25:45
Speaker 4: who are coming, forward family members Of Stephan boden who
25:49
Speaker 4: are coming forward and, SAYING i Know stefan did. It
25:52
Speaker 4: he told me multiple. Times we are taking all of
25:55
Speaker 4: this And bob is pushing for a hearing In september
25:59
Speaker 4: with emotion for new, trial and we're hoping that we
26:01
Speaker 4: can Get terrell home very.
26:03
Speaker 2: Soon and that leads to what happens now and what
26:07
Speaker 2: can people?
26:08
Speaker 4: DO a mini documentary came out About Terrell.
26:12
Speaker 3: Barrows please check it. Out the title of it is on.
26:14
Speaker 4: YouTube it's Called making An exonery twenty twenty dash The
26:18
Speaker 4: story Of Terrell. Barrows and then that you'll really see
26:21
Speaker 4: everything that we outlined throughout this entire, podcast as well
26:26
Speaker 4: as getting to hear from people who heard From steffan
26:29
Speaker 4: himself that he did. It and then there's also a
26:31
Speaker 4: change dot org petition that sends a letter to the,
26:34
Speaker 4: governor who has been pretty vocal, about you, know THE
26:38
Speaker 4: blm movement and everything that's happening right, now so we're
26:40
Speaker 4: hoping that she'll also hop onto this change dot org
26:44
Speaker 4: slash Free. Terrellbarrow so it's changed dot org slash Free Terrell.
26:50
Speaker 2: Barrows our wonderful producers have put the link in the
26:53
Speaker 2: podcast description so you can just scroll down on whatever
26:58
Speaker 2: platform you're listening. To please share it on social. Media
27:02
Speaker 2: tell people listen to the, episode watch the video content
27:06
Speaker 2: that's out. There we can win. This so now this
27:10
Speaker 2: is the part WHERE i get to thank our guests
27:13
Speaker 2: in this, case Or Jenna, handy thank you for being,
27:17
Speaker 2: here and of Course Terrell, Barrows we're here for. You
27:20
Speaker 2: i'm going to fight for, you and thank you as
27:23
Speaker 2: well for sharing your thoughts with. Us Now i'm going
27:27
Speaker 2: to turn off my, microphone pick back in my chair
27:31
Speaker 2: and Let Doorgena handy share her final thoughts in the
27:36
Speaker 2: segment we call closing.
27:38
Speaker 3: Arguments terrelle is an amazing.
27:40
Speaker 4: MAN i could go on and on about who he
27:43
Speaker 4: is as a, person the character that he, has and
27:46
Speaker 4: the change that he will make when he is brought.
27:49
Speaker 4: Home and it has been such an honor to be
27:53
Speaker 4: in his, life to be in his mother's, life to
27:55
Speaker 4: be in his attorney's. Life And i'm hoping that we
27:58
Speaker 4: can Prove terrell's inn his and bring him home to his,
28:02
Speaker 4: mom to his, family and to society where he belongs
28:06
Speaker 4: and WHERE i am one thousand percent sure that he
28:09
Speaker 4: was going to make a. Difference this is not the
28:12
Speaker 4: end and it's definitely not the. Beginning this story With
28:16
Speaker 4: terrell has happened many times in the past and unfortunately
28:20
Speaker 4: will continue to happen unless people like, me like You,
28:24
Speaker 4: jason come together and Bring terrell.
28:26
Speaker 2: Home and now over to You terrell, again thank you
28:32
Speaker 2: for being, here and thank you for your courage and your.
28:34
Speaker 2: Spirit hang in. There we're all out here rooting for
28:38
Speaker 2: you and more importantly fighting for. You so now over
28:41
Speaker 2: to you for closing.
28:42
Speaker 6: ARGUMENTS i just want to thank everybody for, listening AND
28:47
Speaker 6: i want to start OFF i think And jason for
28:50
Speaker 6: give me this platform to explain my. Situations we need
28:53
Speaker 6: people Like jason Mob, Power Madi tank with The georgetown
28:58
Speaker 6: students And Jean I'm Leo. Caroline they are fighting so
29:05
Speaker 6: hard for. Me my, Attorney Robert, kando just want to
29:09
Speaker 6: thank him for being there for me and really really
29:12
Speaker 6: fighting for me because he Knows i'm really. Innocent you.
29:15
Speaker 6: KNOW i also got to think the two main women
29:18
Speaker 6: in my, wife my mother And Ann. Lisia if it
29:21
Speaker 6: wasn't for An lisa reaching out to my out with,
29:24
Speaker 6: that none of this right, now this, interview the, documentary the,
29:28
Speaker 6: petition none of this would be going on right now
29:30
Speaker 6: because it wasn't for. HER i want to thank my
29:32
Speaker 6: mother for always being there for. Me her strength is
29:37
Speaker 6: WHERE i get it. From but right, Here i'm innocent
29:40
Speaker 6: and she told me to, fight, fight fight UNTIL i
29:43
Speaker 6: get my. Freedom but the post conviction aren't coming, up
29:47
Speaker 6: And i'm fighting for a new child And i'm fighting for.
29:50
Speaker 6: FREEDOM i need your. HELP i just need as much
29:52
Speaker 6: people to sign this.
29:54
Speaker 5: Petition you have one man at.
29:56
Speaker 6: Left its spread the word. Allies there's a lot of
30:02
Speaker 6: us in here that are, voiceless AND i am blessed
30:08
Speaker 6: to have the. FAMILY i have to have this voice
30:12
Speaker 6: to speak because it's given me a platform to speak
30:16
Speaker 6: for the voiceless in this. PRISON i feel like people
30:21
Speaker 6: are playing in my life for a. REASON i know
30:23
Speaker 6: That i'm gonna get out of jail AND i gotta
30:25
Speaker 6: fight on the front line for people that are innocent
30:27
Speaker 6: in present because it has to. Stop these props need
30:34
Speaker 6: to be held a. Poundable they're not just killing us
30:38
Speaker 6: in the. Streets they're killing us in these courts and
30:41
Speaker 6: there's no consequences when they do. It they need to be.
30:46
Speaker 6: Accomplished too many people in the prison, system what their
30:49
Speaker 6: life took in the thought they didn't do it has to.
30:53
Speaker 2: Stop don't forget to give us a fantastic. Review wherever
31:06
Speaker 2: you get your, podcasts it really. Helps And i'm a
31:09
Speaker 2: proud donor to The Innocence project AND i really hope
31:12
Speaker 2: you'll join me in supporting this very important cause and
31:16
Speaker 2: helping to prevent future wrongful. Convictions go To Innocence project
31:19
Speaker 2: dot org to learn how to donate and get. Involved
31:22
Speaker 2: i'd like to thank our production, Team Connor hall And Kevin.
31:25
Speaker 2: Wartis the music in the show is by three TIME
31:28
Speaker 2: oscar nominated Composer Jay. Ralph be sure to follow us
31:31
Speaker 2: On instagram At Wrongful conviction and On facebook At Wrongful Conviction.
31:36
Speaker 2: Podcast Wrongful conviction With Jason flamm is a production Of
31:39
Speaker 2: lava For Good podcasts and association With Signal Company number
31:43
Speaker 2: one