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Book Club: The Girl and the Wolf · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I never told you production of iHeart Radio. And we're
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: back with another episode of book Club. We did miss
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: last month because of chaos, chaos, general chaos that is
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: still going, ongoing, ongoing, So we did choose a shorter
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: book for today. Although I will say we do like
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: to highlight books of all.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Kinds, we haven't done one of these in a while.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Yes, I think we've only ever done one other children's
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: illustrated book. Yeah, the Girl who gave Note?
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Was that the only one? Because I thought we did
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: another one because we don't even though it is like
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: children's end quote book, the Girl who gave No. We
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: knew it wasn't a children's right, but I felt like
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: we had done another one as well. Am I confused?
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: I might be confused. Did a lot of books?
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: We have said, a lot of books.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I love this.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: I do too. I hope you listeners love it. I'm
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: always I'm happy with things I would have I would
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: never have read right, not for this segment, So I do.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: I do appreciate it. I wish we could read. We've
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: said before, sometimes we are limited, and because we do
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: this once a month how long the books can be.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: And there are plenty of books you listeners have sent
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: in and I'm like, yes, that one oh five hundred
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: pages that but please know, we do take your suggestions,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: and some of them I've been like, I'm going to
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: read that se lately like it won't be an episode
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: on here, or maybe it will be, but I'm just
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: going to it's not I can't do it in like
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: a week, right, So.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: One day I think this is the main of his
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: existence when we're a six days a week podcast in
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: trying to stay up on top of things. The amount
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: of research that we have to do is because we
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: are our own researchers and all of that that we
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: don't have the hours in the days to do like
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: big projects like that unless we let split it up.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: But one day, if we actually see that somehow for
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: some week reason that we are ahead, we will tackle
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: those books.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So don't stop sending the suggestion because again, even
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: if maybe we don't do them on here, I love
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: getting a book suggestion, and there are plenty that you
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: all have sent in. I'm like, oh, yes, yes, yes, yes,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: But because the chaos of the previous month, the ongoing
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Chaos and the Holidays. We did want to choose a
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: shorter book, but as I said, we also like doing
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: a bunch of different things. So today we were talking
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: about the twenty nineteen Canadian children's picture book The Girl
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: and the Wolf, written by Catherina Vermetz and illustrated by
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Julie Flett. It is beautifully illustrated and it's a lovely story.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Vermet is a may te writer from Treety One Territory
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: in Winnipeg, Manitoba, and Flett is a Red River may
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: tea and Swampy Cree artist and author. And Samantha, you
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: got this from your local library, did you not?
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Well no, no no, So I cheated a little bit and
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: I bought it. But it was about as a used
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: book and is from a library, not our local library,
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: so it was in libraries, and you know how they
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: sell off their books. I got it that way because
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: I wanted a hard copy because I love a good
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: children's book anyway, so having this as a children's book
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: was fantastic because the art is gorgeous. I think we've
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: talked about this a lot in the past few episodes,
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: but I just really love when we have tales especially
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: like Native indigenous tales Nation tells that are so folkish
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: obviously traditional. This is not. I don't think this is
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: not traditional. I think she created this one correct. Yes,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: but it feels as if it has a lineage to
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: the story. And I love the art that often is
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: depicted with it, especially with like the newer artists who
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: are translating what they hear. I love that. So having
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: that an actual hard copy that was from a library,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: it felt very nice. It smelled like a library do Yeah, yeah,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: that is nice. It is.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: It is really beautifully illustrated. And when I was reading it,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: I kind of immediately was like, is this it's just
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: like Little Red writing Hood kind of sort of an
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: inverse because the main character the girls in Red, it's
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: a wolf. And the author did say in a short
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: interview at the back of my copy that European fairy
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: tales of the big bad wolf just didn't make sense
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: to her, that they were in fair to the wolf,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: which I love. I also thought of the Boy who
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Cried Wolf. But yeah, it's really I like the contrast
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: of the colors and it just paints like a really
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: good moving It does feel very like this is a
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: story you would tell your kids, and I think it's
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: a classic bound to be yes, but yeah. The author
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: did make clear that the story is inspired by other
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: traditional stories, but she made it up yes, so quite quickly.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: The plot is that it follows a young girl in
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: a red cloak who is running in the woods, and
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: it ignores her mother's request to stay close. She gets
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: lost as the sun is going down. She starts to
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: worry when a wolf approaches her and ask her what's wrong.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: He asked her what she's going to do, and she
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: responds she doesn't know. The wolf counters that you do know,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: in fact, and instructs her to close her eyes and
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: think of what she does know. And the girl does,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: and the wolf waits patiently, and the girl realizes she
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: does know that she can eat nearby berries and drink
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: the nearby water. The wolf ask her again what she's
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: going to do, and again the little girl says she
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: doesn't know. The wolf points out once again that she does,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: and the girl thinks for a moment before realizing she
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: does recognize where they are. She starts running again until
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: she finds her mother, and she tells her mother about
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: the wolf, and her mother tells her that there are
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: legends about wolves helping those in need. The little girl
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: leaves a gift of tobacco for the wolf and thanks,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: and tobacco is one of the four sacred medicines traditionally,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: and that's it. It's a really impactful story in terms
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: of the empowerment of it of like the girl taking
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: that breath and thinking and realizing, yes, she does know,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: she knows what's to do. Yeah, I'd say that that's
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: probably the biggest theme of this book, is doing it
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: for yourself, relying on your own knowledge and experience. And
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: when she's scared and she's sad, but she problem solves
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: and she doesn't let it overwhelm her. And I think
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: that's a really great powerful message for kids, right for adults.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie moments of like with everything being
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: chaotic and feeling like you're alone and feeling like you're
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: in darkness and it's gonna consume you. Taking the time
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: to breathe and like like assess the environment. I think
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: that's a big conversation that we don't have enough of
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: of actually observing to figure out your solutions. In often times,
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: the solutions are there if you will think go through
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: it calmly, which is not an easy desk.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: No, and especially in the context of this story, like
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: the sun is going down, she just has kind of
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: this this timeline of oh, I've got to figure this
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: out or it's going to be dark and more dangerous.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: And I do like that about it too, is that
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: the wolf is a friend to her. But it's also
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: not painted as like the safest thing, like the breath,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: like she smells meat on the breath, like it's not sanitized,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: I guess, and like the dangers you know of Okay,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: if I'm in the dark by the time, like when
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: the sun goes down, what am I going to do?
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: But she takes that and she concentrates, and she does
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: have this knowledge or these memories that help her help herself.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: And I think, going back to your pointsman, that is
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: very It is difficult to do when you're panicking or
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: just overwhelmed, but it's something that we've learned in like
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: when we've talked in our trauma episodes are even our
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: meditation episodes of observing, Yeah, like taking in like grounding
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: yourself and here and now and what can I do
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: here and now? Even if it is I can take
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: this next breath and I can like try to focus
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: and try to do this. I would say another big
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: theme is respecting nature, because a lot of it is
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: about nature. Like she knows about the berries, she knows
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: about the water. She finds the way back to her
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: mom based on some trees, and like her memories and
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: the wolf, the wolf being there, and I love that
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: her mother believes her, and it's like, yes, right, I've
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: heard the tales. The wolf helps sometimes of need. I
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: like that. It was just like, I'm glad you're back.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: I believe you made it back.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: She did a small like I told you not to
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: work play, I'm glad you made it back. I think
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: it's interesting because as much as I love these tales
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: and such, it's not necessarily for us. It is an
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: indigenous tale and in First nations, and I think it's
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: also the conversation of them understanding. And again this is
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: just me kind of like interpreting in my own way
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: of like this is a tale that she knows the
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: author and the illustrator in that they have been taught
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: through their culture and they're truly seeking their culture. That
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: all of these things are very important, which is not
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: always taught to us. Who are not a part of
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: the indigenous culture about the importance of nature and seeing
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: around your surroundings and appreciating your surroundings and instead of
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: seeing horror or chaos or threats, seeing that as attributes
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: to finding your way. And I think it could be
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: a part of that conversation is that we also know,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: and we've talked about many times, especially with like activists
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: around the world, when we talk about the fact that
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: when it comes to indigenous people, First nations people, they
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: are intersectional because one of the biggest things that they understand,
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: beyond anything else, is that earth nature is a gift
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: and it is not being honored enough. And I think,
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: like we know that is their first point of understanding,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: that this is a living, breathing thing that needs to
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: be respected and so if you truly respect it, it
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: will help you in return. So I feel like it's
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: a very indigenous tell in that way as well.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, totally. Like so many times when we do
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: those episodes are over on the other show, I do
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: savor when we talk about indigenous food ways, it's almost
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, no surprise, but it's almost always like there
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: was never a problem with this until colonizers came in
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: and now, guess what, it's almost extinct. Like it's almost
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: always they add an understanding and a balance and a
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: respect for this is how much we can take and
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: that's it, and it more replenish. And then colonizers came
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: in and we're like, but I want more and more
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: and more and more and more, and then it's just depleted.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Now we have organizations and projects you can look up
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: that are really great that Indigenous people are doing to
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: try to bring back these lost foods that went almost
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: went extinct, or even the ways of cultivating them right.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: And so it is like when you're talking about respecting
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: the nature and taking in your surroundings, that is a
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: very very indigenous story of actually paying attention right, actually
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: being in tune with things and using that knowledge and
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: understanding the truth of it. Because like I said, I
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: kind of love that the wolf is helpful, but it's
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: also clear that it is dangerous in a way like
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: you respect it, like okay, I just I love that
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: aspect of it. It didn't feel at all threatening, where
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: it's like you've got like the little red riding Hood
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: very threatening the wolf.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie. There are a couple of moments
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: of like, is this gonna turn scary? Like I was
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: waiting for just a few seconds, Like when he's like
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: closing your eyes, I was like, oh no, we don't
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: close your eyes. There was a couple of moments of like, no,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: don't do that. Oh okay, okay, this is good, this
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: is all right, all right.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: I got you.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Another big part of I think indigenous culture is wisdom
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: and being led. And even though she was the one
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: that made the choices and she was the one that
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: really had to cipher through her understanding and her knowledge,
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: it does still lead her and it does still kind
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: of guide her. And I think that's like a conversation
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: about ancestral teachings and about respecting ancestry as well as
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: respecting your elders in some respect. And I think that's
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: that conversation too with to see that in indigenous people,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: which is how they keep their cultural alive, and which
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: is how they're keeping their culture alive, is to remember
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: and to respect the ancestral ways and traditions. And I
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: think it kind of represents that in that manner because
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: we know wolves can be cunning and whys and all
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: of those things, but also dangerous, like it is unpredictable sometimes. Yeah,
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: But with that though, if you truly lean on it
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: in the correct way with respect that it does, it
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: will lead and guide you. Like there's this level of
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: understanding and importance in that as well, like as a
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: combination of both reliance on yourself but also remembering and
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: learning from tradition, which is not a bad thing.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And that's one of the reasons I love
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: when she gets back and she tells her mom, and
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: her mom is like, yeah, I believe you, but she
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: also does do that like, yes, you shouldn't have run away,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: but it's like a it's like a good she learned
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: this lesson and she did take into account those traditions
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: that maybe she's heard growing up and just this respect
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: for nature. And because of that she was able to
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: get out of this situation and get back and get
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: a little talking to from her mom. But like, I
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: like that mix of don't do that again, but you learned,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: You learned, and you were able to get out of
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: that situation because you listened and you learned. And that
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: is a big part of a lot of indigenous cultures,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: is that like telling of stories and listening and taking
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: that in and then also how she gives the gifts
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: at the end to the wolf, like a very traditional
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: powerful gift showcases this listening to the earth, respecting all
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: of that stuff, like I know, I know what the
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: value of this was, and I'll give back in this way.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: And that's another thing going back to our current issues
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: around climate change and all of the damage that's been
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: done of like having this knowledge of I realize, like
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: I realize what nature has given me and I respect it,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: and here's a gift of my acknowledgment. I think that's
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: that's a great lesson too, And especially I don't have
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: talked about food a lot, but this just comes up
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: a lot and savor. But like you know, where a
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: lot of us are cut off from where our food
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: comes from, a lot of us are cut off from nature,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: and so having this moment of like recognizing nothing comes
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: without any price, and we need to respect that and
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: take that into account when we're moving about in the
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: world and trying to survive in the world. Right.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: I wonder too, if like the author was trying to
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: kind of give a perspective as some of the cultural
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: aspects of like you know, tobacco being very important to
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: the Metese people, and feeling as if like she kind
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: of wanted to sneak that in for those who aren't
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: aware of that culture, because she doesn't really talk about
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: when this tale would have taken place or what culture
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: is taking place in it. She just like kind of
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: generically makes it a children's tale until the end and
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: you figure out her origins in her background and then
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: the illustrator's background, then you're like, oh, okay, Like if
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: you just walked in on it with just like, oh,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: this is a nice children's tale, and of course expecting
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: like maybe it's a like a rendition of little Red
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: riding Hood, and then seeing what it was like, I
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: think it's nice to add those kind of elements to
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: that and making sure that it is a shown as
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: separate than a European tale.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean I certainly was like
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: I immediately looked at the colors of the Little Red Road,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: But then I really loved this take on that clearly
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: acknowledging that a lot of us might think that first, right,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: And I like this take on. At the end, she
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: thanks the wolf for the knowledge and for the help
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: and for showing her for reminding her that she she
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: had the tools she needed because she has listened, she
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: has paid attention. I really enjoyed it. I thought it
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: was a great story. I wish I had read it
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: when I was a kid.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Right. It was one of those moments I did pick
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: up the picture book and I was like, I'm gonna
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: read a lot of peaches like she's a child, because
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: I felt like I needed to do that. Yeah, I didn't, Listeners,
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: I didn't, but I really wanted to. And then just
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: showed her all the pretty pictures. Do you want me
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: to read? You tell? She did not care. Oll, she
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: was not appreciative, she was not the wolf for me.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Not helpful anyway, there's a lesson to be learned from
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: that as well.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: She does have the meat breath though, so there's that.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: There we go, there we go. Well, yeah, listeners, I
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: highly recommend checking it out. And if you have any
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: suggestions for books of any type, because yes, we do
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: like to do all kinds of things on this on
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: this segment, please let us know. You can email us
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: at Stephanie momstephan atiheartmedia dot com. You can find us
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: on Twitter at Momsta podcast are on Instagram and TikTok
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: at stuff I Never told you for using on YouTube.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: And we have a tea po bookstore and we have
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: a book. We have a book you can get wherever
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: you get your books. Thanks as always too, our super
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: producer Christina, our executive producer Maya and Atriver Joey, thank
• 21:07
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• 21:10
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• 21:12
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• 21:13
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