Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Exploring Spirituality with Josh Leonard (Part 1) | The Christian Reeve Podcast #335

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Exploring Spirituality with Josh Leonard (Part 1) | The Christian Reeve Podcast #335 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome, Welcome back to another episode of the Christian Reed
• 0:03
  podcast, Jesus Christ, episode 335 today.
• 0:07
  I've got very special guest. It is of course, Josh Leonard of
• 0:10
  the Pursuit of Infinity podcast. Now he's been on this show quite
• 0:14
  a few Times Now. I would say it's around the four
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  or five mark now. I don't know, I've not been
• 0:22
  counting, but I do remember that the shows that you were on will
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  always like feel good and they're always like big occasion
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  ones. Like you were on episode 200.
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  We did a bunch of like alien conspiracy stuff, which was
• 0:35
  quite fun. And then also just kind of
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  exploring even like the first time you were on the show that
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  was, I remember that was quite a heart warming kind of show.
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  It was quite a unique straight insight into your mind from the
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  get go, you know, which was really cool.
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  But here we are, you're back on the show after maybe a year.
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  I think it is. How you doing?
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  How you feeling man? I'm good man and it's it's great
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  to be back. I always enjoy talking to you so
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  I really appreciate you having me back on man.
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  It's a pleasure to speak with you too, man.
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  There's there's obviously, you know, you do you do a podcast in
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  pursuit of Infinity podcast. I, I know that you, you do like
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  the show with your brother, but then you also kind of have
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  guests occasionally. And it's like, you know, guests.
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  I think what I've learned over the years is that you can have a
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  conversation with anyone so long as they're willing to have a
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  conversation. But having repeat guests
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  indicates that like you've got like a bit of rapport.
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  You know, I, I see it in much the same way as, as just like if
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  you're going out with a friend that you find quite interesting,
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  you know, it's going to be a good night.
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  It's the same kind of thing. It's like, alright, cool, let's
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  say where we can take this. Let's see where this is going to
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  go. But I, I also kind of side note
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  of this podcast speak, but I was editing old shows and I started
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  doing clips again. I embraced AI even though I've
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  been combating it for years. I but more as I kind of used it
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  as like an editor assistant kind of thing.
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  And it's been invaluable, to be honest with you.
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  And, you know, I was throwing up old clips as well as new clips.
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  And that's when I kind of came across the stuff we'd done in
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  the past. And I was like, damn, yeah, it's
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  been a while since Josh was on the show.
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  Like, we should do that again. Like, I wouldn't feel that way
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  again, you know? Have you have you dabbled of any
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  AI stuff with podcasts or just in general?
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  A little bit I've used it just to help with like wording
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  certain things like when I record intros and stuff like
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  that. If I want to get a certain idea
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  across and I don't know exactly how to say it, I'll throw it
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  into a chat bot or something. But I haven't used it so much in
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  the like actual content creation aspect or even like the art
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  aspect. I was like looking to try to
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  maybe redo the the logo a bit for our podcast and I was using
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  AI for that, but I just didn't like anything it was spitting
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  out at me. And I kind of like, I like
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  creating my own art. Whereas with AI it's like it
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  feels like it's just too easy and you can almost tell that
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  it's AI when you try to do too much with it.
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  I think kind of the way that you're trying to use it as like
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  an editing tool or as just like an assistant is a better way to
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  do it than just like straight up, this is the art spit out
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  directly by AI and just like posting it.
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  Yeah, I so I don't know if it's because I'm an artist or, or if
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  it's just my own personal opinion, but I kind of agree
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  Like that whenever you try and use it for something like that,
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  like for example, I was I for a hot minute, I was, I was in a
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  band recently and you know, they were throwing ideas about band
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  logos and they look cool, but like something about it just was
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  off to me. It's like, well, this wasn't
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  made by a person, so it just lack soul.
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  And I didn't say that. I just, you know, I just was
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  like, yeah, that's cool. And then whatever.
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  But if it's my own thing, I feel like enhancement is useful with
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  AI and that's, you know, it sounds like we're kind of using
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  it for the same sort of thing. Like it's like, OK, let's say I
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  just go into a show and I just, I don't know what to say.
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  I don't know what to do. And it does happen sometimes you
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  get shows like that where I don't know, there's, you just
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  can't find anything online about this person or you're just stuck
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  for questions. You don't really, you like a
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  starting point. It's great for that.
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  And often I'll, if it's really good, I'll use everything.
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  But often it's just like tweaking or taking a few ideas
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  here and there. But I feel like with a good,
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  with a good podcast, you, you want to kind of ad Lib really,
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  you know, you have your questions and that's like your
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  starting point. But you know, we, we've, we've
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  had it on each other's shows where you just don't even touch
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  the questions because you're just having a good time and, and
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  it's flowing naturally. And I do appreciate, obviously
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  everyone does their show a bit differently.
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  Like some people have a very structured, rigid show and it's
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  like question after question, just hitting your marks.
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  But I always wanted my show to be just kind of like a relaxed
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  conversation that was heavily prepared, you know, just like,
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  like, yeah, it feels like I've just not bothered.
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  But actually, you have no idea. You're like, there's so much I.
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  Really agree, man. I completely agree.
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  Often times I'll have a huge list of questions that I'll just
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  like, I've been slaving over for two weeks and then I hit the
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  very first one because I like to try to, I, I, I find that the
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  first question with a guest, especially someone that you
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  haven't talked to ever, is usually the hardest one to come
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  up with. Like how do you launch the
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  conversation? How do you begin?
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  So a lot of times that's the one that I'll plan and like, I'll
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  use that one. And then that's the only
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  question I'll get to. The rest of it is just all ad
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  libbed. You know, it can, it can work
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  the wrong way as well. Like I agree, it sets the tone
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  and it's it's like a, it's like a if I kick the let's say I
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  don't know. This is such a weird analogy.
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  You ready for this, Christians? Weird analogies?
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  Let's say we're on a football field and I've got a football
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  and I've never seen you play, so I don't know what your skill set
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  is. I just kick the ball your way
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  and within about a minute I'm going to know your skill level.
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  And that's not to say we can't play football together, But if
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  it's like I kick the ball to you and you trip over the ball and
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  you fall on the ball and now you're injured, I know we're
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  probably not going to play football today.
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  You see what I mean? Whereas if you start doing kick
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  UPS, you do like a bicycle kick. I'm like, alright, cool.
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  The point being, you know, there are people that have done this.
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  There are people that just need a bit of encouragement and then
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  there are people that just just won't give you anything, like,
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  you know, a tough crowd, tough audience, whatever.
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  I mean, I don't know, I've always seen your show as one of
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  those ones that just kind of knocks out the park every time.
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  Have you had, I mean, it seems that way.
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  I don't know. I've not heard you talk about
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  any bad guests. I guess it's not something you
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  always publicize if you do. But have you had anything like
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  that? Like just something where you it
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  was like throttling the chicken, like you just can't get anything
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  again with analogy. Yeah.
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  Well, yeah, I definitely have. And I do love the analogy of
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  football or soccer in my country, as we call it suck
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  because it is like a game. You know, it's like a, it's like
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  a dance. You know, you're, you're, you're
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  kicking the ball and you're seeing if they can defend and
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  then you know it, you're passing the ball possibly too, if you
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  have more than one person on it on your podcast, you know, I've
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  had episodes where I'm interviewing two people at the
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  same time, which is interesting. It's like a, a different
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  dynamic. And I have had interviews where
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  like I have had to actually go back to my questions that I
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  wrote because we've gone through 5 questions in 5 minutes because
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  their answers are just so like to the point, so short.
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  And I'm just like, oh, I was hoping that, you know, I asked
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  this one question and we could have a 10 minute conversation
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  about the topic, but then they, they wrap it up too quick.
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  And I'm like, oh crap, now I got to move on.
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  And that's, I think the the stage where I have issues.
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  It's not necessary that I've ever had any like bad guests,
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  but sometimes you have guests where you're hoping that they'll
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  elaborate a bit more on a topic and they just kind of fall flat.
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  Isn't that kind of the whole point of a podcast and also kind
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  of a conversation like, you know, like it's like you feel at
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  the dinner table and you're like, oh, Christian, tell me
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  about that time that you did XYZ and I tell the story.
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  But it's a minute story. You just kind of sit in there
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  like, yeah, no, but where's all the pizzazz and the the the
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  meat? You know, like I don't want you
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  to give me a clinical fucking explanation.
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  I want the innards. The what am I?
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  How are you the full? Course, like when you have to
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  ask the questions you had, like you have to poke and dig deeper
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  and force it out of them. And that can be fun sometimes
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  too, because then you can sometimes get things out of them
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  that they didn't normally or like they didn't prepare for.
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  Because every guest usually has like their one home run topic
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  where like you ask them a specific question about a
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  specific event in their life. And like that's the thing that
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  they talk about all the time on every podcast.
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  But sometimes you can get people to like really share some things
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  with you that they normally don't talk about.
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  Like I've, I've had a few podcasts where like one in
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  particular that I haven't actually released yet.
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  And this is like a like a goal of mine sometime.
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  And like, it might sound like a weird goal, but like I like this
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  guy like cried on the podcast, you know, like he like like sort
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  of shed a tear and like got choked up.
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  And I think like that's really cool when you can bring the
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  emotion in like from a topic out of someone, something that they
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  feel so like deeply for. I think that's a really special
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  moment. And sometimes you really get
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  those. Absolutely.
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  And yeah, it's it's it's pretty powerful when that happens
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  because I've discovered that you'll get what the fuck is this
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  live stream chat? Oh, mad.
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  Oh, OK, so I don't have to have that open, right.
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  I've learned something cool. Hey, Vilma, what's going on?
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  I just, I just discovered that I didn't have to keep YouTube
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  open, which is great because that's cool.
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  Cane it cane. It just causes problems.
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  So wicked. All right, there you go.
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  So for anyone, whoever does a stream and a podcast at the same
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  time on Riverside, this is how you do it.
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  But yeah, going back to to what you were saying, I mean, those
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  are powerful moments. You can't script those.
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  I've had a few people cry on my show.
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  I've cried on other people's shows.
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  I think it's good, You know, it's good to show emotion.
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  I've said this before. There's been surprising episodes
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  I've done where, you know, like you say, you asked the right
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  questions, you probe in the right way, and then you get
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  something really powerful. Like, I remember one guy told me
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  about his alcohol addiction, which was completely unrelated
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  to what we were talking about. It just kind of came up, and I
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  said, are you comfortable talking about that?
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  And he was like, yeah. And he just tells me this, like,
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  really powerful story. And I was just like, wow, this
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  was quite early on in the podcast.
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  Like I'd say the first year of the show, I was, I was really
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  trying to kind of figure out what this is, you know, And I
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  think over the years, what I've realized is it's, it's the art
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  of interview. It's trying to adapt to each and
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  every guest and find common ground, but also get the good
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  conversation, you know. But I will say, going back to
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  what you said before about pushing till you get asking the
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  right questions, I don't think it's all on the host.
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  I'd say it's like 7030. I've had guests show up before
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  and there's just nothing. Nothing.
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  Yeah. And I'm like, come on, man.
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  Like, did you come here for a conversation or did you just
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  come here to just piss me off? Because if you did, it's
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  working. Yeah.
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  Like that, responsibility percentage changes depending on
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  who the guest is for sure. I mean, don't get me wrong from
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  the from the guest perspective, like if the questions suck, the
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  questions suck if their host has not done their work, you know,
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  like I get it. Like it's, it's like when you're
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  in an interview. And I mean, I think they do on
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  purpose. But when the interview is like,
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  so tell me about your experience.
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  What have you done? And I'm like the CVS right in
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  front of you, bro. Have you not read it like that?
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  Isn't that the point? You know, I remember one time I
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  was doing a marketing marketing interview because I was thinking
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  about getting back into it and this guy asked me, oh, sum up
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  your marketing. And I was like, well, which part
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  do you want me to talk about? There's like, I don't know at
• 13:44
  that point, like 5 years experience, different fields.
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  I was like, I don't know, pick a part, like which part do you
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  want me to expand on? Because it could take me like an
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  hour to talk about my time doing this particular project.
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  And he was just like, oh, just sum it up.
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  And I'm like, and so I do. And like he, he was very old
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  fashioned. He just wanted me to just, you
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  know, say the right things at the right times.
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  And I'm like, bro, the world has moved on.
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  Like this is not read the read the CV Stop wasting my time.
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  Like, do you know what I mean? Ask me something to buzz me.
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  I don't know. And.
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  I feel like what you do is more difficult than what I do because
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  what you're doing is like, you're interviewing like every
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  kind of person about every kind of topic.
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  So you have to do like a very specific amount of research in
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  order to, you know, to, to get yourself well versed in whatever
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  they're doing and who within who they are.
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  Like for me, a lot of who I interview are people who are
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  interested in like specific topics that our podcast revolves
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  around, like spirituality, psychedelics and science, like
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  all kind of stuff like that. So if I ever like run out of
• 14:55
  questions or I don't know what to say, like I can always just
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  kind of reference back to like the interest point, which is the
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  topic at hand because it's always the same type of topic.
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  Whereas with you, like you're always interviewing, just like
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  the gambit man, like all kinds of people.
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  Yeah, it is. It's hard sometimes.
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  There are, there are times when I'm like, did I make a mistake
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  by bringing them on like, but no, I mean, it's fun.
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  It's a challenge. I mean, if you turn around and
• 15:28
  say, hey, this is the art of interview, you got, you got, you
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  got to stand up to that challenge and really like throw
• 15:34
  yourself in. And I don't know, I mean, I
• 15:37
  think sometimes I'm, I'd say more often than not, I'm able to
• 15:41
  get the best out of people. But yeah, I'm not Superman.
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  Sometimes it's impossible. But like I've always said, if
• 15:48
  you come willing to have a conversation, we can have a good
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  show, you know, because I get a lot of people that reach out and
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  that I oh, I, you know, I would come on, but I don't feel I'm
• 15:59
  interesting enough. And I just think that's just
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  such crap, man. Like angry.
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  Like, yeah, everyone's got something to bring to the table.
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  And, you know, a lot of the time people don't even know what they
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  have to bring to the table because they just never really
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  thought about it. You know, like, yeah, I was, I
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  was chatting to my girlfriend on the the other day and I was sort
• 16:23
  of joking that like one day I'll just have like endless stories
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  for like us and our kids and stuff like that.
• 16:28
  And then I started thinking about the fact that like, there
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  are things you just forget, like decide that like I've, I've
• 16:35
  worked like every job you can imagine.
• 16:37
  And it's, it's getting comical at this point, like how many
• 16:39
  jobs I've had. But like, it's, you know, you
• 16:43
  forget about things and then something obviously triggers it
• 16:46
  in your mind, you know, some random memory or a person or a
• 16:50
  thing. And then you're like, oh, yeah,
• 16:52
  oh, yeah, that thing. And then it's like, you know, 15
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  other memories come on the top of that.
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  And then it's like, oh, you know, and then it's a whole
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  thing, you know. But yeah, maybe I guess the
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  point I'm trying to make is, I guess it comes from tapping into
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  that. If you sit down and look at your
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  life as a whole, there's a lot that you can unpack, learn from,
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  talk about and and then from there, it comes down to just how
• 17:25
  you tell the story, you know, how you lay it out.
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  I think a lot of the time people kind of think, oh, I'm not
• 17:31
  interesting, but it's not that they're not interesting.
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  They're just maybe not great at laying out their story.
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  And it's like, you could work on that.
• 17:39
  You can become a good storyteller.
• 17:40
  You know, it doesn't have to be grandiose, it just has to be
• 17:43
  like real and you paste, I guess, you know.
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  And from the heart, that's the main thing.
• 17:52
  You know, if if you're genuine about the story that you're
• 17:55
  telling and you're expressing the way you felt in the moment,
• 17:58
  then it doesn't matter if you're super articulate.
• 18:01
  If you're you know, if you've read a million books and you're
• 18:03
  able to like, you know, yeah. And you have this vast
• 18:06
  vocabulary, it doesn't necessarily matter because some
• 18:08
  of the best episodes are like some of the best podcasts.
• 18:11
  Actually one of my favorite podcasts I've listened to in a
• 18:14
  little while, but I used to listen to it all the time is the
• 18:16
  Shawn Ryan Show. And he's not like this like
• 18:20
  insanely smart, articulate guy. Like he's definitely a smart
• 18:24
  guy, but his his questions are very basic.
• 18:26
  And that's OK because you're again, like you're trying to
• 18:29
  extract the like emotional state of the person during whatever
• 18:33
  moment they're trying to share with you.
• 18:35
  And I think that's the the main focus.
• 18:39
  Yeah. And you know, I always say to
• 18:41
  people that like for me, one ethos I live by is less is more.
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  You know, you can ask really complex questions or, or delve
• 18:50
  into complex matters, but that's not necessarily the mark of a
• 18:53
  good conversation or, or even a smart person.
• 18:56
  Like I've met, you know, on paper smart people.
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  And then there's just nothing. There's no substance.
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  There's no, you know, it's just book smart.
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  It's it's like, yeah, OK, that's impressive.
• 19:08
  You've committed all this to memory, but what does it mean?
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  What's the significance? You know, I'd argue life
• 19:14
  experience a lot of the time is worth its weight in gold in
• 19:17
  comparison to academia. You know, obviously it depends
• 19:20
  what we're talking about. There are some things that are
• 19:23
  invaluable to life. Like if you're like a
• 19:25
  mathematician, you're literally using the building blocks of
• 19:27
  existence, you know, so that's obviously going to be really
• 19:31
  important. But if we're like, oh, I'm, I'm
• 19:34
  new, I'm an expert in like, I don't know, business or
• 19:38
  something. Anyone can learn that, you know,
• 19:41
  it's not, and real business is not study.
• 19:45
  It's, it's, it's about doing, it's about psychology and, and
• 19:48
  timing and there's all these different elements that you
• 19:51
  learn in life. Yeah, I remember my first
• 19:54
  marketing job like, nothing I learned that university was in
• 19:58
  any way used in that job. I had to start from scratch.
• 20:03
  And I realised like, oh, so this is what marketing is.
• 20:06
  I don't know what that thing we they taught us at uni was, but
• 20:09
  that's not marketing, that's just bollocks.
• 20:13
  Anyway, Speaking of bollocks, let's talk about spirituality.
• 20:20
  I'm scared. Believe it or not, we've got a
• 20:25
  topic today. So we were thinking, yeah, we
• 20:30
  were thinking about talking about something, obviously
• 20:33
  talking about something. And but I just didn't have any
• 20:36
  ideas. Like I I could talk to Josh
• 20:38
  about anything. As you see, we've just talked
• 20:41
  for about 20 minutes right there.
• 20:43
  And it's quite, you know, but there I, I didn't know what to
• 20:46
  talk about because we've already covered quite a lot.
• 20:48
  What's up, Joseph? I do.
• 20:50
  And then you pitch the idea of spirituality.
• 20:53
  And I was like, we've kind of skirted that issue a little bit.
• 20:56
  We've covered a little bit, but we've not done like a sort of a
• 20:59
  deep dive on it. So I'll throw the definition in
• 21:04
  and I'll get into my next question for you.
• 21:06
  So I got, I got like two different definitions because
• 21:12
  when I started just delving into this, I mean, it's, it's a real
• 21:17
  rabbit hole. And it really depends on what
• 21:19
  angle you're coming at because there's the religious side,
• 21:22
  there's also just spirituality on its own.
• 21:25
  And then there's like a litany of different theories out there.
• 21:29
  And also it's difficult, from what I found to come across
• 21:34
  reputable links. There was a lot of just like
• 21:36
  random websites. I found that, you know, there's
• 21:39
  no scientists or, you know, people that are in some way
• 21:44
  studying the field. It was just like random
• 21:47
  websites. And obviously you have to be
• 21:48
  really careful in this particular topic because you
• 21:52
  just get a lot of people that are just chatting nonsense or
• 21:58
  are like charlatans and they're trying to sell you something.
• 22:02
  So the definitions I have here, the first one is spirituality is
• 22:06
  the quality or state of being spiritual or of being attached
• 22:12
  to or concerned with religious questions and values broadly
• 22:16
  conceived? The term is also frequently used
• 22:20
  in a non or even anti religious sense.
• 22:23
  Interesting to designate a preoccupation with or capacity
• 22:28
  for understanding fundamental, moral, existential or
• 22:33
  metaphysical questions, especially regarding the nature
• 22:36
  of the self or soul or person, depending on what you believe,
• 22:40
  the meaning of life, the nature of mind or consciousness, and
• 22:45
  the possibility of immortality. Now that one comes from
• 22:49
  britannica.com and I've got another little short one here.
• 22:53
  Spirituality is a broad concept with room for many perspectives.
• 22:58
  In general, it includes a sense of connection to something
• 23:01
  bigger than ourselves. And that's from taking charge
• 23:04
  dot CSH. It says Edu.
• 23:07
  So I was like, OK, there's some studies there.
• 23:10
  There we go. There we go.
• 23:12
  So my first question to you, Josh, when did you first become
• 23:16
  aware of spirituality? Great question, great question.
• 23:21
  I would probably say for me it was around 2013, fourteen,
• 23:28
  something like that. Because before that, well, you
• 23:32
  know what, maybe not, it may have been earlier.
• 23:35
  Because I think spirituality, as all those definitions has laid
• 23:39
  out, is such a wide-ranging and broad potential topic that it
• 23:43
  ranges from like religious people all the way to, you know,
• 23:48
  scientific atheists. Because in my opinion, like even
• 23:51
  scientists and people who value that perspective, like that's a,
• 23:57
  that's a form of spirituality because it includes something
• 24:00
  that's higher than yourself, whether it be the process of the
• 24:02
  universe or what you know, whatever it may be.
• 24:04
  So I feel like without knowing about it, like without actually
• 24:08
  acknowledging it, I was delving into the spiritual world through
• 24:12
  science because I was like a staunch atheist for such a long
• 24:15
  time. And then I, I, I stumbled upon
• 24:18
  this book and it was called Biocentrism by a guy named
• 24:22
  Robert Lanza. And it talked about and a theory
• 24:28
  of reality where consciousness is fundamental as opposed to
• 24:33
  space-time. Because currently under the
• 24:36
  scientific paradigm that we all kind of learn in school and
• 24:39
  we're all brought up in generally space and time, just
• 24:43
  like the, the relationship of space-time is fundamental to
• 24:47
  reality. All of all the physical reality
• 24:49
  exists within this realm of space-time.
• 24:52
  And this theory really got my mind going of, you know,
• 24:57
  consciousness actually being fundamental and space-time being
• 25:01
  a layer above that. And that really catapulted my
• 25:07
  spiritual thought processes. And, you know, that led me to
• 25:13
  sort of the spiritual philosophies of the East and
• 25:19
  some of the more odd spiritual philosophies where consciousness
• 25:24
  is fundamental and they talk about the soul and the spirit
• 25:27
  and that type of thing. And it also, I, as an atheist, I
• 25:31
  was the kind of person that really did not have any room in
• 25:35
  my mind for religion. And it got me to soften that up
• 25:40
  a bit enough to the point where like now, like, I really respect
• 25:43
  religions and I, you know, I understand, you know what, like
• 25:47
  what they're pointing to. We can get into that too, if
• 25:49
  you'd like. But yeah, my, my spiritual
• 25:51
  journey, I feel like now looking back on it, maybe it started
• 25:55
  when I was a baby and it just continued all up until now.
• 26:00
  And I just didn't know it until I I knew it, yeah.
• 26:05
  It's a little bit to unpack there.
• 26:06
  I think with the religious side of things, you can't talk about
• 26:11
  spirituality without talking about religion.
• 26:13
  They kind of come hand in hand for myself, just like you,
• 26:19
  atheist for many years. I would say I sit agnostic now
• 26:23
  because like yourself, I've seen in religion elements that I
• 26:28
  like, respect, etcetera. I don't, I don't like organized
• 26:33
  religion as concepts. I'll just say that now.
• 26:37
  It freaks me out. I like the positive things it
• 26:42
  can give people on an individual basis, you know, the power to to
• 26:48
  like, you know, believe in oneself to keep going, to push
• 26:51
  through hard times, structure. Sometimes it can save people
• 26:57
  from themselves. You know, there's a lot of
• 26:58
  positives to it, but there's also a lot of negatives.
• 27:03
  And, you know, I always point my finger more at like, people
• 27:08
  rather than the concept itself, you know, because it isn't
• 27:12
  inherently bad or evil. It's, it's all about the
• 27:16
  direction people take things in. Sometimes it can be really
• 27:18
  positive, sometimes really negative.
• 27:20
  Like I worked to an event the other day and it was for a
• 27:24
  charity, I think. I wouldn't necessarily say they
• 27:28
  were a Christian charity per SE, but there was like music that
• 27:32
  was being played that was Christian stuff.
• 27:35
  And, you know, clearly a big religious theme in it.
• 27:38
  I think it was like an American family put money into a trust or
• 27:42
  something and then it'd become like a global foundation or
• 27:44
  whatever. And that's great, That's fine.
• 27:47
  But the, The funny thing I've found over the years is it's
• 27:51
  always like whenever I'm dealing with like really difficult
• 27:53
  clients, like awful, awful clients, a lot of them are
• 27:57
  charities. It's like just some of the worst
• 28:00
  people work for charities honestly, like really horrible
• 28:03
  people. Not everyone.
• 28:05
  There's some really good people out there.
• 28:07
  And the same is true in organized religion.
• 28:09
  Like, you get a lot of people who, quite frankly, are not good
• 28:13
  people. You know, they preach it you
• 28:16
  about how you should be living and what you should or shouldn't
• 28:19
  be doing. And I always kind of looked at
• 28:22
  that like hypocrisy, like, you know, practice what you preach.
• 28:27
  You know, you're going to tell me I'm a bad person and then
• 28:31
  look at how you're treating people.
• 28:33
  You know, I'm pretty sure in in your book or your religion, it
• 28:36
  doesn't say anything about like, you know, disrespecting people,
• 28:41
  looking down on people and so on and so forth.
• 28:45
  But anyway, my point with all of this is that because of those
• 28:51
  feelings, I've always kind of looked at this and gone.
• 28:54
  All right, it's it's not something I could fully ever
• 29:00
  commit myself to believing in because I just don't agree with
• 29:02
  the concept. I don't agree with how it's
• 29:04
  handled. But when it comes to things like
• 29:07
  spirituality, that's a whole other thing.
• 29:12
  There's we spoke about it when we were talking about near death
• 29:15
  experiences that that kind of came from all around the world.
• 29:21
  And naturally there would have been a lot of like religious
• 29:23
  experiences as well. And they all kind of followed
• 29:26
  the same be if you like, they all had the similar story,
• 29:31
  similar feelings, similar vibe. And that to me suggests that
• 29:35
  like spirituality is almost like a concept beyond religion.
• 29:40
  Like religion is this man made thing and spirituality is this
• 29:44
  thing beyond our understanding. This, you know, for, for
• 29:47
  religious people, they say it's a connection to God or, or
• 29:51
  feeling that they've maybe had this ethereal experience,
• 29:55
  something they can't explain. But it must be that I can
• 29:58
  understand why they would feel that way because it's not
• 30:01
  something you could explain within our world as being
• 30:05
  anything logical. You know, some people try to
• 30:08
  explain it away and say, oh, this person hallucinated or, you
• 30:11
  know, it was just, I don't know, temporary brain wave or
• 30:16
  something. And it's like, I get what
• 30:17
  they're saying, but I think sometimes you have to be open to
• 30:20
  the possibility that maybe these things are beyond our level of
• 30:23
  understanding when it comes to the relationship between
• 30:30
  religion and spirituality. Like, what do you think the
• 30:34
  significance of that is? Like why are they so tied
• 30:39
  together? Well, I definitely think that
• 30:42
  spirituality is or like the spiritual realm is like the
• 30:46
  underpinning of our physical reality.
• 30:50
  I think it's more foundational than physical reality is.
• 30:53
  And what religion seems to me to be is the human endeavor of
• 30:58
  trying to map out the spiritual realm.
• 31:00
  And with any human endeavor, there are many errors involved.
• 31:05
  I feel like each religion is pointing to the same thing but
• 31:11
  doesn't actually get the answer right because the answer is
• 31:16
  unobtainable. In my opinion, it's the ultimate
• 31:18
  mystery and that's kind of what makes it interesting.
• 31:21
  That's what makes spirituality spirituality.
• 31:23
  It is. It is an endless mystery.
• 31:26
  And when you start to go down the rabbit hole of discovering
• 31:30
  it, First of all, I, I think that the right way to go about
• 31:35
  it and like what religions do is like a lot of them, at least on
• 31:39
  like a, like a basic level, they try to ask the question like,
• 31:43
  how can I worship the ultimate? Like, how can I worship God?
• 31:48
  But I think a better way to go about it is just to strictly ask
• 31:52
  yourself like, who am I And investigate who you are?
• 31:56
  And then what you find is that you are that thing.
• 31:59
  You are God and everyone is. We are all connected in that
• 32:04
  way. And I think that's the best way
• 32:07
  to start your investigation and to continue your investigation
• 32:10
  is to keep that in the back of your head.
• 32:11
  Like who am I? What am I?
• 32:13
  Because that is the foundation of the answer, or at least
• 32:16
  beginning to answer some of the questions.
• 32:19
  Because as you get, as you answer some, some of those
• 32:22
  questions about spirituality to yourself, the only thing that
• 32:26
  happens is the the number of questions that then arises from
• 32:29
  that answer just multiplies. It's just question after
• 32:32
  question after question. It gets more complex the deeper
• 32:35
  you go. This is why I sometimes get
• 32:38
  frustrated talking to religious people because I feel like to a
• 32:42
  point their mind will close and they'll be like, well, I don't
• 32:46
  believe in any of that. Or, you know, this is what I
• 32:50
  believe. It has to be this.
• 32:51
  And I'm like, shouldn't you always keep your mind open?
• 32:56
  But then, but then the point is, and like ourselves, they have
• 33:01
  accepted a certain way of doing things and a certain belief
• 33:05
  system. And within that belief system,
• 33:08
  there are limits. And that was maybe the biggest
• 33:12
  reason why I couldn't accept any religion and like follow it
• 33:15
  because I can't deal with like limitations and restrictions.
• 33:19
  To me, you have to keep your mind open at all times because
• 33:23
  you can then you can always receive new information and you
• 33:27
  can always, as you say, question everything.
• 33:29
  And perhaps that's the most important thing about being a
• 33:33
  human is to never lose that ability to question things.
• 33:39
  You know, like even just something simple, like, OK, now
• 33:42
  I know this thing, but why do I know this thing?
• 33:44
  Why is it that it's this way? Why is it true that just because
• 33:51
  they tell me it's that way, could it have been something
• 33:53
  before you? I mean, like there's a litany of
• 33:56
  questions and it's great to be in that mindset where you can
• 34:00
  just continually question things.
• 34:02
  And I think that then helps you to understand more about
• 34:05
  yourself and the journey. Because if you start getting
• 34:09
  into that mindset, you will question literally everything in
• 34:12
  your world and suddenly your world changes.
• 34:16
  Like, I wasn't going to bring this up, but I just, I just say
• 34:19
  it like I don't like the way the world is right now.
• 34:23
  I find it, it's kind of feels like we're living in hell.
• 34:32
  I'm not saying the world has always been perfect by any
• 34:34
  means, but when I look at like people's behavior, the lack of
• 34:41
  compassion in society, all the things that like when we were
• 34:47
  younger were there, I like missing.
• 34:49
  And you could argue that's generational differences.
• 34:52
  And obviously like the state of the world then has an impact on
• 34:57
  people, much like, you know, people in wartime were of a
• 35:00
  certain ill can built a certain way and that then affected them.
• 35:03
  Like that much makes sense, of course, but we've gotten to a
• 35:06
  point now where it's almost like a lot of the time the world is
• 35:11
  devoid of compassion and people were just attacking each other.
• 35:15
  And it it just doesn't feel very safe or comfortable or like a
• 35:21
  like a world that I even really recognize anymore.
• 35:24
  And I'm not saying that everyone is like that.
• 35:26
  Like if anything that makes you appreciate the people that
• 35:30
  aren't like that, like, you know, makes you appreciate good
• 35:33
  people, good times, good experiences.
• 35:35
  But I feel like a lot of the time it's like you're trying to
• 35:38
  search for those moments that feel like beautiful, that feel,
• 35:44
  I don't know, to my mind, like normal And everywhere you go, a
• 35:49
  lot of the time you just don't see it.
• 35:51
  Like, I don't know if that's just city life or if that's just
• 35:54
  the times we're living in or whatever.
• 35:56
  But when I, when I think about, you know, the concept of
• 36:00
  spirituality and people's belief systems, I'm not saying that
• 36:06
  like that's necessarily the answer, but I do think that
• 36:09
  believing in something bigger than yourself, having something
• 36:12
  to work towards, being in this mindset where you can keep
• 36:16
  pushing forward and growing, it gives you purpose.
• 36:19
  And when you have purpose, you have a direction, you, you can
• 36:23
  get through a lot of things, you know, like, if I take like my
• 36:27
  life as an example, I'm not in a position I want to be.
• 36:33
  I've had so many failures over the years, so many setbacks.
• 36:38
  It's affected me emotionally, physically, in every way you can
• 36:41
  imagine. And at this point in my life
• 36:45
  now, the only thing that's really left is to just keep
• 36:49
  going, to keep seeing where the tunnel leads, you know?
• 36:55
  But there's this part of me that's like, never give up.
• 37:00
  That's not an option. And maybe that's stubbornness or
• 37:05
  maybe that's a belief in something bigger.
• 37:08
  I don't know. But I just, when I think about
• 37:10
  that, it just feels like that can never be the option because
• 37:16
  like that would be true defeat and that would be like almost
• 37:22
  like a cardinal sin. I don't know, like it.
• 37:23
  This feels like just it's out of the question.
• 37:35
  Where do you stand on on all of that?
• 37:37
  Like what? What drives you, Josh?
• 37:46
  Man, that's a great question. I do sort of feel the same as
• 37:51
  you. There's like sort of this fire
• 37:53
  in my soul or something like that that keeps me going.
• 37:58
  And I think it's like a love of life itself.
• 38:03
  And a lot of it is gratitude. When I wake up in the morning
• 38:08
  and I see that the sun is out, I just feel so grateful to be
• 38:12
  alive. And I just feel so grateful that
• 38:14
  I get to look up at this beautiful sky that's in front of
• 38:17
  me and that I have like, my dog and my girlfriend and like, you
• 38:21
  know, all the people in my life and things like that.
• 38:23
  When I start to get caught up in thinking of myself as a failure,
• 38:28
  that just sort of it brings it back, you know, to gratitude.
• 38:33
  And I think the spiritual experiences that I've had are
• 38:41
  where that is grounded from because I was at a point before
• 38:46
  I had any sort of spiritual inclination, where again, like
• 38:50
  the atheism breeds nihilism to a degree.
• 38:55
  Nihilism just sort of manifesting itself as you
• 38:59
  looking at the world as if nothing matters and there's no
• 39:02
  meaning. And I've already achieved
• 39:04
  everything that I'm capable of and I'm worthless.
• 39:06
  And you know, this like weird, like mechanistic judgement of
• 39:14
  yourself based upon like the rules of the societal game or
• 39:18
  something. You know, if I'm not, you know,
• 39:21
  if I don't have like this massive career with all this
• 39:23
  money that I'm a failure or something.
• 39:25
  And you know, the, the spiritual experiences that I've had
• 39:29
  brought me back into myself and who I am and what I am and
• 39:32
  appreciating that I am connected to everything and everyone.
• 39:37
  And I can go outside and I can look at a tree and I can say,
• 39:40
  this might sound weird, but I can say like that tree is me,
• 39:43
  You know, like the, we are all just like manifestations of, you
• 39:49
  know, the universal intelligence of creation or something, You
• 39:52
  know, a scientist would say the, their, their phrase for this is
• 39:55
  we're all made of Stardust. We're all made of the same
• 39:57
  stuff. And there's different ways to
• 40:00
  say it. Science will say it one way,
• 40:01
  religion will say another. My flavor of spirituality will
• 40:05
  say another way. But I think it comes down to,
• 40:08
  you know, to gratitude. And I would like to go back to
• 40:11
  something that you said before where you say, you know, people
• 40:14
  sort of like. We feel like we know already.
• 40:17
  We like, know everything or something, you know, like we
• 40:20
  have answers. Like religion likes to claim
• 40:22
  that they know they have the answer.
• 40:24
  And if you don't know what they know, then you're wrong.
• 40:28
  And I like to ask myself like, what does it even mean to know?
• 40:32
  Because I don't feel like you can know spirituality.
• 40:35
  You can only be it. And there are different methods
• 40:39
  of being it. And I think that's when you
• 40:41
  truly can get a grasp to begin to understand what it is, when
• 40:47
  you can be it through spiritual practice.
• 40:52
  Well, let's explore that a little bit.
• 40:53
  I mean, I've always thought it was more of a belief system.
• 40:57
  You're saying it's something you can be.
• 40:59
  So what does it mean to be spiritual exactly?
• 41:02
  Well, I think that depending on your preferred flavor, you know,
• 41:08
  that's definitely going to change.
• 41:09
  There are, and I think spiritual practice is just the basic
• 41:13
  undertone of like what you would need to do.
• 41:15
  Some people, they go to the ashram in India and they
• 41:20
  meditate there for months and months and they only eat rice
• 41:23
  and, you know, they do their thing and they sweep up the
• 41:25
  ashram until they've touched God.
• 41:28
  You know, for me, I like to take psychedelics.
• 41:33
  And to me that that brings me to the experience of God.
• 41:37
  It almost puts you in the room with God, so you feel it, you
• 41:41
  become it. That's sort of the essence of
• 41:44
  meditation. When you meditate deeply enough,
• 41:47
  you start to merge with and become the thing that exists
• 41:51
  beyond your physical reality, whether you consider that your
• 41:54
  soul or consciousness itself. But I think that's the essence
• 41:59
  of it is finding a practice that works for you that allows you to
• 42:04
  merge with the thing and become it.
• 42:06
  As opposed to just like reading about it is that it's kind of,
• 42:09
  as you said earlier, you know, you can read about something.
• 42:12
  You can like in terms of academia, you can, you know,
• 42:17
  study all you want, but the real life experience of something is
• 42:22
  what's gonna gonna get you there.
• 42:23
  And most people don't believe it's possible to experience God
• 42:28
  or to experience spirit. And I just use the word God
• 42:31
  because that's like the word we all use for it's, it's, it's the
• 42:34
  best word. I think maybe source is a good
• 42:37
  word for it too, but a lot of people don't believe that you
• 42:41
  can actually become that thing. They just think that you got to
• 42:43
  sit in a Pew and have somebody that's at the helm tell you
• 42:47
  about it. But in reality, when you start
• 42:49
  to ask yourself these questions of who am I, What am I, what is
• 42:53
  really going on here, that's when you can actually start to
• 42:57
  adopt the practices that allow you to feel it and to be it.
• 43:05
  The closest thing I could compare that to is when there's
• 43:09
  been moments in my life where I've even pushed through like a
• 43:15
  really dark, difficult time or I'm struggling with something.
• 43:19
  Could even just be something as simple as like a really tough
• 43:21
  shift to workplace. And you know, you're, you're
• 43:27
  drained, you're, you're just exhausted.
• 43:31
  You know, you're running on reserves, you're falling apart.
• 43:33
  And then you just start talking to your kind of inner self and
• 43:37
  you're like, come on, push through this.
• 43:40
  Come on, just dig deep. We can, we can do this.
• 43:43
  And then you find that you actually do it.
• 43:48
  Or like, maybe you're running in a race and you somehow find what
• 43:55
  you need to get through it and finish it, you know?
• 43:57
  And, and it's like, I think moments like that are maybe
• 44:02
  tapping into that higher thing that was sort of discussing or
• 44:05
  trying, trying to explain in so many words.
• 44:08
  But the most like powerful example for me was sometimes
• 44:12
  like when I'm on stage and I'm performing and I'm really just
• 44:18
  feeling it and with the music, like I forget where I'm at.
• 44:22
  I forget what's going on and I'm just, I'm just in the feeling in
• 44:25
  the moment, you know, And it just feels like I'm at 1.
• 44:29
  I know it sounds like a really kooky and stuff but like I'm at
• 44:32
  one with the music and not at. All man.
• 44:35
  Not at all. I think you've nailed 2 huge
• 44:39
  methods of spiritual practice, physical like physicality,
• 44:42
  physical competition and music. Music probably being like one of
• 44:46
  the absolute peaks of spirituality and like that flow
• 44:50
  state you're talking about. You know I got.
• 44:52
  Flow state, yes. You know, I'm not very musically
• 44:55
  inclined. I love music, but I, I don't, I
• 44:58
  don't play music, but I, I can relate to the first example of
• 45:02
  like, you know, running and like pushing yourself, you know,
• 45:05
  'cause I was a wrestler in high school or, and you know, from
• 45:08
  elementary on up. And I competed in boxing after
• 45:11
  that. And I remember like being in the
• 45:14
  ring looking at this guy in front of me who like, wants to
• 45:17
  hurt me and I want to hurt him. And, you know, we're pushing
• 45:20
  each other to the Max and I'm getting hit and I'm hitting him.
• 45:23
  And like you have to dig so deep in yourself to pull out like
• 45:30
  what it takes to continue on and to like to fight a person who's
• 45:36
  trying to hurt you. It's like they, it takes you to
• 45:39
  like the depths of who you are. And that's the same thing like
• 45:42
  with the running. And like you were talking about,
• 45:43
  like you're telling yourself like, come on, like keep going,
• 45:46
  keep going. And it's interesting to ask
• 45:48
  like, who were you talking to? Like who's who's talking?
• 45:51
  Like who's asking the question? And like, who are you asking the
• 45:53
  question to? Who's calling the shots?
• 45:57
  It's a big one. Yeah.
• 46:00
  Because there's lots of theories, isn't there?
• 46:02
  There's like, oh, it's like The Sims and someone's controlling
• 46:04
  us or, oh, it's all predetermined and we decided
• 46:08
  this in the clouds or other people are like, it's in the
• 46:12
  moment. You know?
• 46:15
  One thing I wanted to comment on that you said earlier, right at
• 46:19
  the beginning was about, like, space-time and our understanding
• 46:21
  of it. So I'm a nerd.
• 46:25
  Sorry I was rewatching Star Trek recently and I'm still for I
• 46:32
  think I'm like 2-3 seasons in. I love next Gen. it's probably
• 46:36
  my favorite. They had a lot of pretty out
• 46:40
  there episodes, but some of them really delved into belief
• 46:44
  systems and understandings about space and time.
• 46:48
  And there's it is one in particular that I thought kind
• 46:53
  of fits in quite well with our conversation.
• 46:57
  So they come across this guy called the traveller and
• 47:03
  basically Wesley, this younger impressionable kid, like starts
• 47:10
  taking an interest in him and he's he's described as being
• 47:13
  like quite a really, really smart boy picks things up way
• 47:16
  too quickly. He ends up being like sort of a
• 47:19
  semi part of the crew, the comic acting and some, but he's he's
• 47:23
  like constantly working on engineering stuff and and like
• 47:28
  flying the ship, stuff like that.
• 47:29
  So you know he's part of the crew anyway, he is talking to
• 47:38
  the traveller and the traveller is kind of in disguise.
• 47:41
  He's like pretending to be this assistant, but actually he's
• 47:44
  running the show. He's like using it as a, as a
• 47:49
  method of travelling, but not in the traditional sense.
• 47:55
  And he starts like the best way I can describe it is, is like
• 47:58
  phasing in and out of reality. And they have a dialogue at one
• 48:02
  point where Wesley kind of says to him like, oh, is it because,
• 48:06
  you know, space and time and everything is not as we think it
• 48:10
  to be. And it's actually like this and
• 48:12
  the travellers, like you shouldn't know that yet.
• 48:15
  What? Like, how do you know this?
• 48:18
  And basically it wraps up with them saying like, look, he, this
• 48:24
  is a special boy, keep this to yourself, but push him in the
• 48:27
  right direction. One day he'll be ready for XYZ.
• 48:31
  Anyway, the thing that I took away from that episode is, is
• 48:34
  that concept of how we understand space and time.
• 48:39
  So to have fun with it, what if I told you that the past, the
• 48:46
  future, the present don't exist and they've all either happened
• 48:51
  at the same time or are not happening.
• 48:54
  Or, you know, this idea of time itself that we have just is non
• 48:58
  existent. So like in a technical sense,
• 49:03
  you could traverse between them, but it's not in the way that we
• 49:09
  think it is. It's not like the old movies,
• 49:11
  like Back to the Future. We could just go back and forth,
• 49:13
  like you could travel, you could do it, but not in the way you
• 49:20
  think. That brings about 1500 other
• 49:25
  questions. And I think it really comes down
• 49:27
  to what we actually are as human beings.
• 49:33
  It's an experience, but this is not what we are.
• 49:36
  I don't think this is just a form of existence.
• 49:41
  I'm not sure entirely what the purpose is, though.
• 49:44
  To me, being a human at this stage feels very primitive.
• 49:51
  I feel like it's quite frustrating to watch, really,
• 49:53
  because we're at the precipice of, of huge things.
• 49:56
  But if you'd compare it to like all the movies you've ever seen
• 50:01
  over the years, it's like we've chosen all of like, the bad
• 50:03
  outcomes rather than like the good ones.
• 50:05
  It's like, yeah, let's just destroy ourselves and fight over
• 50:09
  bits of mud and, you know, let computers take over.
• 50:13
  And like, that's great. And I'm like, but why?
• 50:17
  What's the end goal here? Like, sure, it would just be us
• 50:23
  dying out really realistically. And but then that suggested a
• 50:29
  deeper point, like if that's the if that's the case, if if those
• 50:33
  that run the world want things to go that way, then that
• 50:35
  suggests that they know something that we don't.
• 50:38
  And this obviously delves into conspiracy.
• 50:39
  But if it was one big thing where we're all working towards
• 50:45
  similar goals, you know, it would be more like a Star Trek
• 50:47
  universe where we'd work to better ourselves and, and move
• 50:50
  forward and travel the universe and discover what's out there.
• 50:54
  But it doesn't seem that way. It seems like we're just very
• 51:01
  obsessed with material things, energy in particular.
• 51:12
  When you hear about, and this is a big one that I wanted to
• 51:15
  discuss with you, how energy is used.
• 51:19
  Those that run society, those that control the world are
• 51:23
  obsessed with that. So if it's like a big scale
• 51:27
  celebrity, like I heard this years ago and this, this kind of
• 51:30
  got me thinking. They said that your major
• 51:33
  performers, people like say Madonna, someone performing in
• 51:37
  front of a crowd, She, she said to me that they she's doing that
• 51:41
  because of what she feeds off from the crowd.
• 51:44
  She's feeding on their energy. And I was like, well, that's
• 51:46
  quite a cynical view, isn't it? But then it's true.
• 51:49
  You get a buzz, you get a high I suppose from the experience and
• 51:55
  everyone leaves tired from your gig, but they feel elated, they
• 51:59
  feel reinvigorated. Maybe even it's a life changing
• 52:04
  experience potentially. Same thing can be felt watching
• 52:10
  a movie in a cinema. You can walk away with, you
• 52:13
  know, just feeling different about life.
• 52:17
  So that suggests that perspective and also the way
• 52:21
  things are presented can affect our energy and, and the way that
• 52:25
  we experience things. But there are different types of
• 52:31
  people in the world. You meet them every single day
• 52:36
  and everyone has slightly different energy.
• 52:38
  So like, I've struggled a lot in life.
• 52:41
  I've had, I don't know, I've lost count of how many difficult
• 52:44
  times, difficult experiences. And I would say the last year of
• 52:54
  my life has been the most challenging for quite some time.
• 52:59
  And you do eventually get into this headspace where you're
• 53:02
  like, is this karmic justice? I mean, do I deserve this?
• 53:08
  Like, where is this headed? What's going on?
• 53:11
  Like, will it ever end? And I started finding myself
• 53:14
  asking those sorts of questions and, you know, I started looking
• 53:18
  into some of the stuff that was coming across my path, like just
• 53:24
  stuff I'd see online and whatnot.
• 53:26
  And something that was really interesting that I saw said
• 53:30
  something along the lines of maybe if you're going through a
• 53:34
  lot of tough things in life, it's building you up to be this
• 53:39
  strong person that the world needs.
• 53:42
  Like they need that strong person who can deal with XYZ,
• 53:46
  you know, situation. Because I'll say this, when I
• 53:52
  was younger, I, I was clueless. I'd felt very weak, like I
• 53:58
  didn't know what the hell I was doing.
• 54:00
  And I think most young people feel that way to be fair.
• 54:02
  But for me, I felt like it went a bit deeper than just like not
• 54:06
  knowing what to do. It was like I felt like I wasn't
• 54:10
  able to survive in this world because I was lacking some key
• 54:16
  things, you know, like some, some fundamental things,
• 54:21
  fundamental strength, maybe call it what you will.
• 54:25
  And over the course of my 20s and now into my 30s, I've kind
• 54:30
  of built up this sense of strength and resilience that
• 54:37
  mostly just kind of sits on, on the experience really.
• 54:44
  It's, it's like, OK, well, I went, I got through all of this
• 54:48
  stuff like I'll be fine. Like I don't know how, but I'll
• 54:53
  be fine. Whereas in the past I'd always
• 54:57
  like just have a breakdown the blue, you know, But like now
• 55:02
  it's like, it's like the, it's like the GTA, me, my, oh shit,
• 55:09
  here we go again. Like it's that crap, but like
• 55:15
  I'd, you know, I can always deal with it.
• 55:19
  And then that's new. That wasn't like that before.
• 55:21
  And I think that I guess my point with this is that that
• 55:25
  comes from experience and a level of strength that you have
• 55:28
  to build to. And then when it comes to like,
• 55:33
  and this, this is the thing that makes me laugh, right, is when I
• 55:37
  find myself giving advice to people, people ask me for
• 55:40
  advice. I'm like, you're asking me,
• 55:43
  asking me for advice. But then I realized that like
• 55:46
  that my, my life might not be perfect, but like, I am a strong
• 55:50
  individual. Like I've dealt with a lot.
• 55:53
  I've built myself to this point where I feel confident in myself
• 55:57
  to deal with anything at this point, Not because I'm special
• 56:01
  or anything like that, just because I went, I went through
• 56:04
  it. Like there's I'm running out of
• 56:07
  things to have gone through at this point.
• 56:09
  Like it's been there, done that on the T-shirt and you have a
• 56:13
  choice in life. You can either choose to be
• 56:17
  victim or you can choose to be a survivor, right?
• 56:21
  I don't know, it sounds very cliched, but like, that's really
• 56:24
  your choice. And I think people have
• 56:26
  misunderstood me over the years when I've spoken about bad
• 56:28
  things. They assume that I have like a
• 56:30
  victim thing. Like I'm complaining, like
• 56:32
  everything sucks, everything's rubbish, you know, worries me.
• 56:36
  If that were the case, I wouldn't be doing any of this.
• 56:38
  I would just be walking around begging people and be like, oh,
• 56:41
  please help you meet. Like, I don't believe that I
• 56:43
  wake up every single day. I try hard, try to push to, to
• 56:48
  make things happen to, you know, and some days are better than
• 56:51
  others. Some days I'm full of life and
• 56:53
  I'm more like me. Other days it's a struggle.
• 56:58
  But I never, I never adhere to that victim complex thing
• 57:02
  because it doesn't get you anywhere.
• 57:04
  And more importantly, it's just kind of effect.
• 57:07
  Like, you know you're going to experience bad things in life.
• 57:12
  You know, you could be the nicest, most well adjusted
• 57:14
  person ever and you're still going to experience bad things
• 57:17
  because that's life. But it doesn't mean you won't
• 57:20
  experience good things either. I think what life is trying to
• 57:23
  teach us a lot of the time is not how to avoid bad times or
• 57:28
  hard times, but rather how to find the strength within oneself
• 57:33
  to deal with those hard times and come out of the other side
• 57:36
  and have learned something, have grown, having just weathered
• 57:41
  this storm. Like the old saying goes, what
• 57:45
  is it like? Only hard seas build sailors or
• 57:50
  whatever it is, you know, Strong sees, you know what I'm saying?
• 57:55
  Yeah, and you know, the The thing is like there's, there's
• 57:58
  only one Christian Reeve. You know there's only one
• 58:01
  person. There's many.
• 58:03
  I'm going. I get your point.
• 58:06
  I get your point. Yeah, You know, there there's
• 58:08
  only one person who has experienced everything that
• 58:11
  you've experienced. And like when someone asks you
• 58:13
  for advice and you have that like imposter syndrome, like,
• 58:17
  why would you ask me for advice? Like who am I?
• 58:19
  Like you're the only person who has what you have to offer, you
• 58:24
  know, like no one else can offer what you have.
• 58:27
  And in terms of advice, like that's what people are seeking,
• 58:30
  like they're, they're seeking advice from the the only
• 58:33
  Christian Reeve that there ever will be and that there ever was.
• 58:36
  You know, and you have something to offer just like all of us do
• 58:39
  that no one else has, you know, based on upon the experiences
• 58:43
  that you've that you've gone through.
• 58:45
  And it's like this hindsight is 2020 thing, you know, it's like
• 58:48
  you, if I look back on my life, I've had a lot of hard times
• 58:51
  too, but I wouldn't change a second of it because I wouldn't
• 58:54
  be here right now. You know, the conversation that
• 58:56
  you and I are having, like I could be having a conversation
• 58:58
  with anyone, but I'm having a conversation with you and you
• 59:01
  have something that no one else has to offer a conversation, you
• 59:05
  know, So I like to look at things in that way more so.
• 59:09
  Just go back to your point about the whole imposter syndrome
• 59:12
  thing. Like I don't have it in the
• 59:14
  moment now, but sometimes when I think about that, I had giggle
• 59:19
  because I think about like who I was like, say 10 years ago, like
• 59:22
  that 1010 years ago, that guy, no chance, you know?
• 59:28
  And like, I think about like people who used to be, who were
• 59:31
  my age that I looked up to giving me advice.
• 59:33
  And I always thought like, oh, I'll never be like that.
• 59:36
  And then here I am. And like, you know, it's I got
• 59:41
  older. I learned a lot, experienced a
• 59:44
  lot, and you know, here we are. And I guess the irony is I
• 59:52
  became what I needed from life without realizing it.
• 59:58
  And that's kind of amazing, but also kind of scary because I saw
• 1:00:03
  it happen in real time, but I didn't notice straight away.
• 1:00:09
  Like I can, I can pinpoint the day that I remember thinking
• 1:00:14
  that's a man. I was like 26 or something.
• 1:00:18
  I think it was during COVID. I was just looking in the mirror
• 1:00:22
  one day and I was like shaving or something.
• 1:00:25
  And I just remember just like stopping and staring for a
• 1:00:27
  second and then just thinking about everything that had led me
• 1:00:30
  up to that point. It was kind of like a
• 1:00:34
  bittersweet moment because I was looking in the mirror and I was
• 1:00:36
  thinking, you're not a boy anymore.
• 1:00:40
  You're not a young man anymore. You're just, you're just a man.
• 1:00:46
  But it also felt affirming because it was like, yeah, yeah,
• 1:00:51
  I am. But it comes down to belief in
• 1:00:56
  oneself. But also like realizing what
• 1:01:01
  that means and accepting it and trusting oneself.
• 1:01:07
  I've always said this whenever I've given people advice.
• 1:01:09
  It's the most important thing you can do is trust in oneself.
• 1:01:13
  And that is the thing that I think kind of gets you through
• 1:01:18
  your life. Bringing it back to
• 1:01:21
  spirituality, like people talk about it being this out of body
• 1:01:24
  experience, this thing that's a bigger than oneself.
• 1:01:28
  Like I think it actually is both in the body and out of the body.
• 1:01:35
  I don't know, not maybe not the body, but like it's, it's within
• 1:01:37
  you and it's also outside of you.
• 1:01:40
  And it's all of the things in your life that you couldn't
• 1:01:43
  explain in a logical way. The things that when you somehow
• 1:01:49
  reach the level that you didn't think was possible for you or
• 1:01:54
  indeed anyone, you just kind of knew that it was a special
• 1:01:58
  moment, something powerful, and you embraced it.
• 1:02:03
  That's the most important thing. You embraced that feeling,
• 1:02:06
  whatever it was, and if you continue to do that, I think
• 1:02:10
  that's when the amazing things happen, maybe.
• 1:02:16
  Absolutely, yeah. And you know, to your point
• 1:02:19
  that, that it's in the body and out the body and all of that,
• 1:02:21
  you know, my, my teacher says it's whatever you want to call
• 1:02:25
  it, God, divinity, spirit, whichever word you want to use,
• 1:02:28
  it's in, through and all around, You know, every molecule, every
• 1:02:32
  water droplet, every wall, every microphone, every hair,
• 1:02:37
  everything. It's in, through and all around
• 1:02:40
  everything. Because I think that one of the
• 1:02:43
  things that we are forced to do when searching for spirituality
• 1:02:47
  is go outside the body. And the only reason I think we
• 1:02:50
  have to do that is because we are so centralized within the
• 1:02:53
  body just naturally as biological beings, like we're
• 1:02:57
  forced to survive in this world of danger.
• 1:02:59
  You know, we've got to feed ourselves, we have to drink
• 1:03:02
  water. You know, there's all these
• 1:03:03
  things that we have to do to maintain our biological life and
• 1:03:07
  our sentience. And that forces us to look
• 1:03:10
  externally outside of the body to verify something that exists
• 1:03:14
  beyond us, even though it does exist within us as well.
• 1:03:17
  It is US, you know, that's why I say that like I think everyone's
• 1:03:20
  true nature is peace, because I, I do believe that, you know,
• 1:03:24
  divinity or God, whatever you want to call it, is just in,
• 1:03:26
  through and all around everything.
• 1:03:28
  And it exists. It's within us.
• 1:03:29
  We're part of it. What's the significance of the
• 1:03:36
  soul? Man, what a deep question.
• 1:03:41
  The significance of the soul, it changes for me depending on like
• 1:03:45
  the day, you know, like depending on whether or not I
• 1:03:47
  feel like I want to believe in. OK, what's what's what's
• 1:03:50
  Sunday's soul? Then if I want to put on my
• 1:03:55
  kitchen hat, but I don't know, to me, like if I right now, I
• 1:03:59
  feel like the significance of the soul is like the way I like
• 1:04:04
  to look at it is like consciousness being fundamental.
• 1:04:08
  What our soul is, is like a piece of the collective
• 1:04:12
  consciousness or the collective unconscious that learns through
• 1:04:17
  the biological being and the experiences that we have.
• 1:04:21
  And I think that what our soul learns, what nourishes our soul,
• 1:04:25
  are all of the things in life that produce love.
• 1:04:28
  And I feel like what happens then is what, you know, our, our
• 1:04:32
  soul consumes all of that love and learns from it.
• 1:04:35
  And then it ascends after we die to the collective.
• 1:04:40
  And then it adds to the collective consciousness.
• 1:04:43
  And that's sort of the sole goal, you know, is to manifest
• 1:04:49
  and experience love and then add that to the collective
• 1:04:52
  consciousness and that piece of our consciousness.
• 1:04:56
  Then if you believe in the reincarnation hypothesis, which
• 1:05:00
  does seem kind of cool to me, I, I like it it, you know, it's a
• 1:05:04
  cool flavor to me. I, I tend to kind of believe in
• 1:05:06
  that and you know, that piece of your soul, then we'll Incarnate
• 1:05:10
  into another life and do it all over again.
• 1:05:13
  Because I do think that the meaning of life is to learn and
• 1:05:16
  to to explore and to understand. Do you think we ever truly die,
• 1:05:25
  or does the soul simply traverse across existences?
• 1:05:30
  Man, this is one of those like paradoxes because the the person
• 1:05:35
  that I am, like when I die, I believe that me, Josh Leonard,
• 1:05:39
  my personality, who I think I am, who I define myself as, will
• 1:05:43
  die utterly and completely. But there is something deeper
• 1:05:48
  like that deeper. I am my higher self, whatever
• 1:05:51
  you want to call it, the witness, you know, the person
• 1:05:54
  that you're, that you're talking to when you're talking to
• 1:05:55
  yourself or something. I think that the soul does go
• 1:05:59
  on, but I think it forgets who it was when it was in me and the
• 1:06:07
  person I define myself as. And then in my next incarnation,
• 1:06:10
  my soul's next incarnation, I will.
• 1:06:14
  I'll be defining myself as whoever that is.
• 1:06:18
  And then that person will die. You.
• 1:06:21
  Used a very interesting word that I'd not even thought about.
• 1:06:24
  You said witness. Are you trying to say that like
• 1:06:29
  the soul is separate from the person and is, well, that's the
• 1:06:37
  word suggests, witnessing what's going on, almost like shadowing
• 1:06:42
  or observing in some way? In a way, yes.
• 1:06:48
  I think that we understand the soul by separating it from who
• 1:06:52
  we are because that's how we understand everything.
• 1:06:55
  You know, if you think about science in any way, you know,
• 1:06:57
  we, we separate ourselves from what we're observing, observe
• 1:07:01
  the patterns within it, put it back together, and then we think
• 1:07:03
  we have, you know, ownership over it because we understand it
• 1:07:06
  quote UN quote. And I think that's how we
• 1:07:07
  understand the soul too. Like the only way to, to
• 1:07:10
  analytically think about it is to separate it from ourselves.
• 1:07:14
  But in reality, I don't necessarily believe that it is
• 1:07:17
  separate. Again, I always it sounds like
• 1:07:20
  an like a like a cop out. But I always use the word
• 1:07:22
  paradox because I think a lot of things are and aren't at the
• 1:07:26
  same time. So I think it is separate from
• 1:07:28
  us, but also not at the same time, if that makes sense.
• 1:07:33
  I mean, I completely agree with with what you were saying about
• 1:07:35
  the idea that like we any, any human element, this, this person
• 1:07:44
  that we've created on, on Earth, it definitely dies because it
• 1:07:49
  wouldn't, it wouldn't be useful. Like how is my experiences in
• 1:07:54
  like, I don't know, customer service, marketing, music or
• 1:07:56
  whatever going to be useful within the context of the
• 1:08:00
  universe? Like it's, it's just not.
• 1:08:03
  But then that's why they talk about soul work, isn't it?
• 1:08:07
  They talk about the things that you do on this planet while
• 1:08:10
  you're here versus the little life you've made for yourself.
• 1:08:15
  Like, I don't for a minute sit here and think that like
• 1:08:18
  anything I do is important within the deeper context of
• 1:08:23
  life. But I do recognize the
• 1:08:25
  importance of what it means to work towards things, to have a
• 1:08:29
  sense of purpose, to work on the things that you're passionate
• 1:08:31
  about. And for example, like I write
• 1:08:35
  and create music because I love to perform music.
• 1:08:39
  I love how music makes me feel. I love how music makes other
• 1:08:43
  people feel. I love the experience that we
• 1:08:46
  get from like just listening to something.
• 1:08:49
  Like I can't tell you how many times I listen to like Pink
• 1:08:54
  Floyd's Shine on You Crazy Diamond, Like I've heard that
• 1:08:58
  like a million times. And I feel the same way every
• 1:09:00
  single time about it. It feels like an out of body
• 1:09:03
  experience. It changes my perception of
• 1:09:06
  reality almost. And it's, it's just a song that
• 1:09:09
  some dudes wrote in the 70s, but they managed to capture this
• 1:09:14
  feeling that you can't put into words.
• 1:09:20
  It's just like an amazing feeling.
• 1:09:22
  And I've always wanted to do that with music to just make
• 1:09:26
  people feel, you know. And then I look at like other
• 1:09:31
  things, like I want to make a career out of this, but I don't
• 1:09:36
  care about money or fame or anything.
• 1:09:39
  I, I care about doing this because I want to wake up every
• 1:09:42
  day and do the thing I love. To me, it makes sense to, to
• 1:09:46
  make that your life because you're going to get the most out
• 1:09:48
  of your life. You're going to tap into the
• 1:09:51
  very things that make you, you. And when you find yourself
• 1:09:55
  hating your life, it's because you're not doing what you enjoy.
• 1:09:58
  Like when I do that customer service stuff, like I do my
• 1:10:02
  best, you know, I do a lot of bartending work.
• 1:10:04
  I take a bit of pride in like how I present things, but it
• 1:10:07
  doesn't, it doesn't fulfil me. It's just like I'm a creative so
• 1:10:12
  I and I have a good work ever. So like I, I pour myself into it
• 1:10:16
  in that sense. But like I don't wake up in the
• 1:10:19
  morning and get excited about the fact that I'm going to be
• 1:10:21
  doing that for like 9 hours. Like, but if you said, hey
• 1:10:25
  Christian, you got to spend 9 hours talking to Josh, I'll be
• 1:10:28
  like, let's go. I'll talk all day, baby.
• 1:10:31
  Like, you know, like I'll get something from that.
• 1:10:34
  I'll be excited about that. And that's the difference.
• 1:10:39
  When you talk about the wider significance of that, again, I
• 1:10:43
  think it's, it's what you get from it, what you give to
• 1:10:47
  others, you know, how much you give to the world, You know, if
• 1:10:52
  you did become rich, surely it should be about how much you
• 1:10:55
  give and not how much you get. I feel, you know, but again, we
• 1:11:06
  all get a different choice in, in, in how.
• 1:11:10
  And obviously our personalities are going to affect these things
• 1:11:13
  massively. Yeah, for, for me, I grew up
• 1:11:18
  quite poor and I, I never really placed a lot of importance on
• 1:11:21
  things because everybody seemed that important.
• 1:11:25
  You know, like, oh, I've got the latest phone, I've got this new
• 1:11:29
  game. I just didn't care.
• 1:11:31
  I was like, well, I'll just get it when it's cheaper.
• 1:11:34
  I'll still have the same experience as you.
• 1:11:36
  I just won't pay full price. And I don't really get anything
• 1:11:41
  out of like, I have this new thing.
• 1:11:44
  Do you have the new thing? Because like every time someone
• 1:11:46
  had the new thing, like 2 weeks later, someone's got the new
• 1:11:49
  thing. And now the, the old, the, the
• 1:11:52
  new thing is now the old thing. And to seem pointless, you know,
• 1:11:57
  to seem, I mean, I guess that's the whole point of materialism.
• 1:11:59
  But it just doesn't in the context of what we're talking
• 1:12:05
  about, it seems especially unimportant.
• 1:12:08
  Like you like things, you know, like that when you look at the
• 1:12:13
  things that are precious to you, for me, it's always things that
• 1:12:17
  elicit memory that to me is like sacred.
• 1:12:21
  But like the things themselves are like not worth anything.
• 1:12:25
  Like at least in my life. I don't know, like I remember
• 1:12:30
  hearing Johnny Depp talk about like it was I think he was doing
• 1:12:34
  his court case and he said he had to like go back into his
• 1:12:37
  apartment to get some things that meant something to him and
• 1:12:40
  there was something it was. Is it Hunter Thompson?
• 1:12:45
  Is that the name of the guy that wrote the story that would
• 1:12:50
  become fair and loving in Las Vegas?
• 1:12:52
  I think Hunter S Thompson. That's right.
• 1:12:56
  So he'd, he'd met him and apparently he made quite an
• 1:12:59
  impression on Johnny. And he was quite a young man at
• 1:13:03
  a time when he was talking to him and learning from him.
• 1:13:07
  And there was something that he gifted him and he saw that as
• 1:13:11
  really important and wanted to get that thing because it was a
• 1:13:15
  connection to that man who's obviously no longer with us.
• 1:13:18
  And I thought a lot about that, like the meaning of certain
• 1:13:22
  things, especially when someone's no longer here.
• 1:13:26
  That's, that's even more powerful.
• 1:13:30
  Go back to what you were saying before.
• 1:13:31
  Like if that's true, then they truly have died forever.
• 1:13:36
  And so that's like a small because they say that you die
• 1:13:38
  twice. Don't you want you die once on
• 1:13:40
  this world, then you die twice when no one utters your name
• 1:13:44
  again? I guess by that logic then some
• 1:13:49
  people live forever, like because we're still talking
• 1:13:51
  about people like Mozart and stuff.
• 1:13:53
  But you get my point. Yeah, and talk about energy,
• 1:13:57
  it's it almost feels like some objects can carry the energy of
• 1:14:02
  a person because they have the effect on the owner of that
• 1:14:05
  object, you know, And I think in that Johnny Depp case is a good
• 1:14:08
  example of it. Well, let's talk about some like
• 1:14:12
  scary stuff for a second. If you believe in that.
• 1:14:15
  Do you believe that like objects can become evil or containing
• 1:14:19
  them like negative energy? That's a hard question because
• 1:14:25
  if I'm being honest with myself, I feel like in order to believe
• 1:14:29
  in like the paranormal, you have to have a paranormal experience
• 1:14:33
  because it's one of those things kind of like a a spiritual
• 1:14:36
  experience. Like if you don't have the
• 1:14:38
  experience, it's hard to believe it because it's something that
• 1:14:42
  exists outside of normal language and description.
• 1:14:46
  Like you can't describe a spiritual experience.
• 1:14:48
  You can't describe a paranormal experience to someone else and
• 1:14:52
  personally I've not had a paranormal experience so I don't
• 1:14:57
  have that level of investment in my belief in it, but I'm my mind
• 1:15:01
  is open to it completely. I just talk about it because
• 1:15:07
  I've heard a lot of stories, especially in the UK, we've got
• 1:15:09
  a lot of old haunted buildings and there are like famous
• 1:15:12
  examples of like things like chairs that are like you can't
• 1:15:17
  sit on it and if you do you die. Or is another thing with is it
• 1:15:21
  the Annabelle dole in states? Something like if you remove the
• 1:15:26
  dole like it's it's really bad energy, like it will kill you or
• 1:15:33
  something. I don't know, something like
• 1:15:35
  that. Like they just never move it.
• 1:15:36
  They always leave it suspended. Does their yeah.
• 1:15:43
  I, I don't know. I, I believe in that.
• 1:15:45
  I, I, I try not to like, I try to avoid that stuff, but I think
• 1:15:48
  one day I'll probably will delve into it and like, I won't.
• 1:15:54
  Mess with the Ouija board because I've received.
• 1:15:56
  Hell no. Possibilities, you know, like I,
• 1:15:59
  I have, I guess what I could say is I have respect for the things
• 1:16:03
  and the objects that people would claim to be haunted or
• 1:16:06
  whatever. I won't go into a house that's
• 1:16:07
  haunted. Like I, I I respect that realm
• 1:16:10
  even though I haven't experienced it.
• 1:16:14
  I think with things like a, a Ouija board is it's almost like
• 1:16:18
  mocking the dead because if you go into like a home and there's
• 1:16:21
  bad energy, all that will happen is it will try and get rid of
• 1:16:24
  you, you know, Whereas A Ouija board, it's like you're mocking
• 1:16:29
  the dead, you're playing with the dead, You know, I don't
• 1:16:36
  know, just seems. Like this?
• 1:16:41
  Seems like you're not. Yeah, But this is just, like,
• 1:16:43
  not smart thing to do. Like, once one person years ago
• 1:16:46
  told me when I was living in Europe, they were a psychic.
• 1:16:49
  And they said the way it works is like, once you open yourself
• 1:16:52
  to that, it's almost impossible to close yourself to it.
• 1:16:56
  You open that things. She said that she was constantly
• 1:16:59
  having conversations with people who were dead.
• 1:17:02
  And she said that like, it was as though she was being harassed
• 1:17:07
  by the dead. She said, like one time there
• 1:17:10
  was a guy who had like, I guess like died in a car crash in the
• 1:17:17
  street that she lived on. And he kept coming up to her and
• 1:17:22
  being like, what's happened? Where am I?
• 1:17:23
  I don't understand. And she's like, I don't, I don't
• 1:17:26
  know. And then she asked him questions
• 1:17:28
  and she understood that he had lived there and I guess been hit
• 1:17:33
  by a car or something. And then he just had no memory.
• 1:17:37
  Stuff like that terrifies me that you could be like a soul
• 1:17:40
  stuck in dimensions and you and you don't know what's happened.
• 1:17:43
  But that kind of speaks to what you were saying before.
• 1:17:45
  Because if that's true, would that then mean that your soul
• 1:17:49
  gets trapped? But your soul doesn't have any
• 1:17:51
  memory because you've died. Do you see what I mean?
• 1:17:57
  So the witness, as you put it, gets stuck.
• 1:18:01
  Yeah, or like it's even like it could be stuck in it.
• 1:18:04
  It's like holding on to the the darkness of the situation that
• 1:18:10
  got it stuck. Like, that's a scary thing to
• 1:18:12
  think about too. Maybe that's what purgatory is.
• 1:18:17
  It's like souls that can't escape because they've they've
• 1:18:23
  become detached but holding on as you as you put it, but they
• 1:18:27
  don't understand why they're holding on.
• 1:18:30
  That's unfinished business concept well.
• 1:18:34
  Yeah, but like deep deeper than that though, like, yeah, because
• 1:18:38
  I think it happens for different reasons.
• 1:18:39
  Like in media they would say that it's like some a lot of the
• 1:18:43
  time injustices or tragedies, stuff like that, you know, like
• 1:18:48
  a child dies in AI don't know, drowns or something.
• 1:18:51
  And then the ghost forever, like, haunts the place, you
• 1:18:55
  know, or as some people describe ghosts as being like, echoes of
• 1:19:01
  what has been. Like there's a place in
• 1:19:04
  Manchester called Lock 91, which is like a bar above locks, but
• 1:19:10
  it's like a really old building. And there was a girl I was
• 1:19:13
  talking to who was running me through like, everything that
• 1:19:18
  happens though, on a regular basis.
• 1:19:20
  There's a really striking room right at the top that has like
• 1:19:24
  an unbelievable amount of taxidermy.
• 1:19:27
  I hate taxidermy, for those who don't know what it is, stuffed
• 1:19:32
  animals, stuffed dead animals. And the saddest one was little
• 1:19:36
  chicks, little little ducks. That was really sad.
• 1:19:42
  Yeah. But basically the energy feels
• 1:19:46
  off because there's all these dead animals.
• 1:19:49
  It just feels like. And she was explaining that like
• 1:19:54
  she said, there was like an innkeeper type dude that would
• 1:19:58
  walk around and you could hear him whistling and his keys
• 1:20:01
  rattling. There was a little boy
• 1:20:03
  apparently that would run around and a mother or something.
• 1:20:06
  But the scariest one was she was like in the bathroom and there
• 1:20:10
  was this constant banging on the door and she couldn't like open
• 1:20:15
  the door because of this, just the the sheer weight of it, but
• 1:20:19
  also just the endless banging. And there was no one in the
• 1:20:22
  building apart from her, that one guy downstairs, apparently.
• 1:20:29
  And like, I again, like, I respect that type of stuff.
• 1:20:32
  I don't like to mess with anything because like, honestly,
• 1:20:35
  I don't want to have a paranormal experience.
• 1:20:37
  You know, I seek out spiritual experiences, but I don't want to
• 1:20:40
  have a scary paranormal experience, man.
• 1:20:43
  It's just not an alley. Here's an interesting question.
• 1:20:47
  How about the idea of a small part of a soul has remained in
• 1:20:50
  that place, but the rest of the soul has moved on.
• 1:20:52
  So we kind of touched on it a little bit, but I guess this is
• 1:20:55
  sort of saying like soul fragments, could it be possible
• 1:20:58
  to split the soul almost like the Harry Potter deal, You know,
• 1:21:04
  when his, his soul is like split into different objects?
• 1:21:07
  I guess that would be possible. Interesting.
• 1:21:11
  Yeah, that's an interesting hypothesis.
• 1:21:14
  I mean, I guess it yeah, it could be possible, you know, but
• 1:21:18
  it's like, I feel like if some kind of unnaturally tragic event
• 1:21:22
  happens, like you said, like if a like a child drowns, it's just
• 1:21:25
  sort of like biologically unnatural for like parents to
• 1:21:29
  have to bury their children type of deal.
• 1:21:32
  And it's possible that like the trauma that surrounds that type
• 1:21:35
  of event could like hold a fragment of the soul of that
• 1:21:40
  being there potentially because we don't really understand like
• 1:21:45
  the the power of darkness and like the power of tragedy.
• 1:21:48
  You know, again, going back to energy, you know, like the
• 1:21:51
  energy that people like give off when they have experienced A
• 1:21:57
  tragedy like that, like there's almost no amount of healing that
• 1:22:02
  you can get. Well, there is no amount of
• 1:22:04
  healing that you can do or get that is going to take that away.
• 1:22:07
  So it's almost like this imprint that it leaves on yourself and
• 1:22:11
  your soul as a person who experienced it.
• 1:22:13
  So I can only imagine it's possible that there could be
• 1:22:16
  like an imprint left on reality, you know, and both the physical
• 1:22:21
  and the the spiritual dimensions in that case.
• 1:22:26
  Yeah, I think, I think Imprint is a great way of putting it as
• 1:22:29
  well. Like I remember this farm that I
• 1:22:32
  lived on years ago in in Estonia.
• 1:22:35
  It apparently had had owners on it previously who had hung
• 1:22:40
  themselves. Now, I never really felt
• 1:22:45
  presence or anything. I definitely felt uncomfortable
• 1:22:48
  in the dark, as most people do. But I do remember, like in the
• 1:22:52
  winter when it was like really cold and dark and the wind was
• 1:22:55
  blowing. Like, I remember just getting an
• 1:22:57
  eerie kind of feeling. And again, it wasn't like the
• 1:23:03
  ghost ship, but it was kind of, you know, I always used to joke
• 1:23:08
  that, like in Estonia, in Europe, like winter is like,
• 1:23:11
  everything's dead. And literally it is, but you
• 1:23:15
  really felt like you're in hibernation because everything's
• 1:23:17
  dark. It goes dark at like 3:00 in the
• 1:23:21
  afternoon or whatever. But like in the most rural
• 1:23:25
  places, it really just felt like everything had died.
• 1:23:31
  And you really felt it in places like that.
• 1:23:35
  I got to say, you just kind of, there was that feeling that you
• 1:23:42
  couldn't really explain exactly, but it was always there.
• 1:23:49
  Yeah. And like places where you
• 1:23:50
  experience all Four Seasons, like truly you get to like first
• 1:23:56
  hand witness the death of the biosphere and then like the
• 1:23:59
  rebirth of it. And I think that does something
• 1:24:02
  to you. Like it, it maybe not negative
• 1:24:05
  or positive, but it it just, it kind of gives you a broader
• 1:24:08
  perspective of like what's happening because you can
• 1:24:11
  understand death in a certain way.
• 1:24:12
  You know, all the leaves are off the trees, everything is kind of
• 1:24:15
  bare and quiet. And it just, it feels like the
• 1:24:18
  death of the biosphere. And then like when spring comes
• 1:24:21
  around, you see it start to like begin to spring to life again.
• 1:24:25
  And it's, it's like a beautiful thing to be able to witness the
• 1:24:28
  cycle of like death and rebirth right in front of your eyes.
• 1:24:33
  So we're coming up on two hours, man, 2 hours chatting.
• 1:24:39
  It flows by, isn't it? Do you think you'd be up?
• 1:24:43
  You'd be up for a second part. Is that?
• 1:24:45
  Absolutely, man. Yeah.
• 1:24:46
  Do you reckon? Yeah.
• 1:24:50
  I got a lot of questions for you.
• 1:24:51
  Still listen to questions. I keep it going, but I just, I
• 1:24:56
  don't know, like it's, it's, it's a deep dive.
• 1:24:59
  It's always a deep dive with you and it's always a joy.
• 1:25:03
  But I, I, I'd like to do another part because I think there's,
• 1:25:05
  there's more we can delve into with these questions,
• 1:25:10
  potentially other directions we can take this.
• 1:25:13
  Yeah, let's do it, man. All right, Thank you so much for
• 1:25:19
  joining me, Josh. It's been an absolute pleasure
• 1:25:21
  and I can't wait to get you back on the show.
• 1:25:23
  And we'll continue this to to Vilma.
• 1:25:27
  Thanks for dropping by. Thanks for all your questions.
• 1:25:30
  We will address the questions you sent in next time.
• 1:25:34
  I'm going to use that as kind of a basing starting point for our
• 1:25:37
  next episode. So apologies that I didn't get
• 1:25:40
  through to them today. But it's, you know, it's like
• 1:25:44
  that with with us, Like we we, we take the conversation where
• 1:25:47
  it needs to go and you let it flow.
• 1:25:49
  And I think that's always the best way with these things.
• 1:25:53
  But yeah, once again, massive thank you, Josh.
• 1:25:55
  It's been a real pleasure. And yeah, I'll see you all in in
• 1:26:01
  the in the next one. God bless.