Latest / Beautifully Complex / 314: Don’t Be “That Parent:” How to Advocate Effectively & Compassionately, with Scotti Weintraub

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314: Don’t Be “That Parent:” How to Advocate Effectively & Compassionately, with Scotti Weintraub · Beautifully Complex

0:03
Speaker 1: When you know things are not going well and your
0:05
Speaker 1: mama bear instinct says like I'm going to go in
0:08
Speaker 1: there and tell them what needs to happen. We got
0:11
Speaker 1: to kind of bring that back in with that idea
0:14
Speaker 1: that collaboration really is the long term best strategy, because
0:19
Speaker 1: you don't want to burn bridges or strain a relationship
0:24
Speaker 1: that you know you're going to have to have for
0:26
Speaker 1: quite a while.
0:30
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights
0:34
Speaker 2: and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches.
0:38
Speaker 2: I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author
0:42
Speaker 2: and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey
0:45
Speaker 2: of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started. Hey, everybody,
0:53
Speaker 2: welcome back to Beautifully Complex. I have my friends Gotti
0:58
Speaker 2: Winetroub here with me, who is an advocate for education
1:06
Speaker 2: and differently wired kids, and we're going to talk about
1:09
Speaker 2: conversations with teachers, which I think is so very important
1:13
Speaker 2: and for any parents with anxiety, this is really an
1:16
Speaker 2: anxiety provoking thing to have these their hard conversations to say,
1:22
Speaker 2: you know things aren't going well, what can we do?
1:26
Speaker 2: How do we fix this, And in this particular conversation,
1:30
Speaker 2: we're going to focus a lot on talking to your
1:33
Speaker 2: kids teachers about their brain, how their unique brain is working,
1:39
Speaker 2: and how that understanding, hopefully is then going to translate
1:43
Speaker 2: into the understanding of the anxiety accommodations that kids need
1:46
Speaker 2: to succeed in the classroom. Scotty, will you start though,
1:50
Speaker 2: by letting everybody know who you are and what you do.
1:53
Speaker 1: Hi, Penny, thanks so much for having me. It's always
1:56
Speaker 1: a pleasure. I am. As you said of Scotty Wanting.
2:00
Speaker 1: I'm the founder of Reframe Parenting and I help parents
2:06
Speaker 1: find roadmaps to school success and I do that through
2:10
Speaker 1: coaching and education. But really my focus is on helping
2:15
Speaker 1: parents get the supports that there are students need and
2:19
Speaker 1: deserve to help all students shine at school, no matter what.
2:25
Speaker 1: I believe fundamentally that all kids deserve to do well
2:28
Speaker 1: at school, whatever doing well looks like, and it can be,
2:31
Speaker 1: you know, it can be a lot of different things,
2:33
Speaker 1: but that's sort of the foundation.
2:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's so difficult, and the journey looks different
2:38
Speaker 2: for every student and every family, and it looks different
2:42
Speaker 2: in every classroom. Honestly, like every year with a new teacher.
2:45
Speaker 2: We were starting from scratch. We had to do the educating,
2:48
Speaker 2: We had to get to know you, they had to
2:50
Speaker 2: connect if they were going to connect, and all these things,
2:52
Speaker 2: right that go into it. But I think at the
2:54
Speaker 2: foundation of it is this information about how our kids'
2:59
Speaker 2: brains work differently and how that means that they need
3:04
Speaker 2: something different in the classroom. Right. It's not just I'm
3:07
Speaker 2: going to tell you that my kids' brain works differently,
3:09
Speaker 2: and here's how we also have to help them translate
3:12
Speaker 2: that right into what the kid or the student needs.
3:16
Speaker 2: Where do we start with this conversation or is there
3:19
Speaker 2: even like groundwork that we can set before we have
3:22
Speaker 2: this conversation.
3:23
Speaker 1: Well, yes, and yes, so I think the more we
3:28
Speaker 1: know as parents about how our kids' unique brain works,
3:31
Speaker 1: it's going to benefit us both at home and when
3:34
Speaker 1: we have those conversations with schools.
3:35
Speaker 2: Yeah.
3:36
Speaker 1: So part of what I work with parents about is
3:38
Speaker 1: really doing that investigative work uncovering. And sometimes people come
3:42
Speaker 1: and they already they already have a diagnosis, they know
3:45
Speaker 1: their child has ADHD, for instance, but sometimes they just
3:48
Speaker 1: know that things are not going well at school and
3:51
Speaker 1: maybe they're not going well at home, but sometimes it's
3:53
Speaker 1: just happening at school, and so it can be hard
3:55
Speaker 1: to tease out what actually is happening. And so I
3:59
Speaker 1: work with families to do that investigative work, to ask questions,
4:03
Speaker 1: to you know, make observations, and then use that data
4:07
Speaker 1: that you collect that it's really useful information when we
4:10
Speaker 1: stop and take sort of a bigger, you know, thousand
4:14
Speaker 1: foot view, like what are we seeing instead of just
4:17
Speaker 1: focusing on, you know, the challenge itself. But let's back
4:19
Speaker 1: up and look at, you know, what what's coming before that?
4:23
Speaker 1: What are the triggers. Where are there particular topics that
4:28
Speaker 1: they seem in school that they seem to have the
4:32
Speaker 1: most challenge with. You know, they like science, but reading
4:35
Speaker 1: for some reason, And okay, let's dig into that. What
4:38
Speaker 1: about their reading? So that work. If you can do
4:41
Speaker 1: that work, then when you come to the teacher, you
4:44
Speaker 1: are armed with so much useful information. You're not just
4:49
Speaker 1: coming to the teacher saying, oh my goodness, my kid
4:52
Speaker 1: is struggling and I don't know what to do. So
4:54
Speaker 1: it puts you in a position of confidence and power
4:57
Speaker 1: to have the information that you need.
5:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I would think about like times a day too, right, Absolutely,
5:03
Speaker 2: does your kids struggle more in the morning or the
5:06
Speaker 2: afternoon or with a particular like quiet time activity or
5:10
Speaker 2: is it more when things are free or more when
5:13
Speaker 2: they're structured, like there's so many variables, right.
5:16
Speaker 1: Or are they sitting next to a certain person that
5:18
Speaker 1: is you know, really distracting for them? Those are all
5:22
Speaker 1: really good pieces of information to have so that when
5:26
Speaker 1: you have the conversations with the teacher, you can say,
5:29
Speaker 1: you know, when my son sits next to the student,
5:32
Speaker 1: it seems that they're dynamic. And this is not a judgment,
5:35
Speaker 1: of course, but their dynamic is that they distract each other.
5:38
Speaker 1: Then that opens up conversation about okay, well what can
5:41
Speaker 1: we try instead? So coming to those conversations with as
5:45
Speaker 1: much information as you can is like my number one
5:49
Speaker 1: starting point. And if you have that, if you happen
5:52
Speaker 1: to have a diagnosis, or you've done things like a
5:55
Speaker 1: you know, some sort of screening or psychological evaluation, those
6:00
Speaker 1: are useful data points too, and sometimes they will bring
6:03
Speaker 1: with them those reports will have, you know, suggestions. But
6:08
Speaker 1: even if you don't have that, knowing what you know
6:10
Speaker 1: as a parent, because you know your kid best, right,
6:13
Speaker 1: you might not be in the school setting. But you
6:16
Speaker 1: know them, you know their personality, you know their quirks,
6:18
Speaker 1: you know their strengths, and being prepared to communicate that
6:22
Speaker 1: information is really the best way I think to go
6:26
Speaker 1: into teacher conversations.
6:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I always, well I didn't always. I learned
6:32
Speaker 2: at some point to really take a collaborative tone. This
6:40
Speaker 2: is what I have noticed at home. What are you seeing?
6:44
Speaker 2: This is what I've noticed works at home. Do you
6:46
Speaker 2: think we could try it in the classroom? Right, So
6:49
Speaker 2: not dictating what we want necessarily, but having that collaborative conversation.
6:58
Speaker 2: This is the information that I'm expert on about my
7:01
Speaker 2: kid that I can bring. Let's talk about it and
7:04
Speaker 2: how it relates to your situation and your environment with
7:08
Speaker 2: your expertise with this kid.
7:10
Speaker 1: Oh, collaboration is the key. And you have to or rather,
7:16
Speaker 1: your child is in that school for a while, right,
7:19
Speaker 1: they might have that teacher for only a year, but
7:22
Speaker 1: they're also in that building. So relationships, we don't want
7:25
Speaker 1: to be burning bridges, right, Yeah, and it only benefits
7:29
Speaker 1: you to go in with a collaborative approach. And so
7:34
Speaker 1: for people who are more timid or have anxiety or
7:39
Speaker 1: you know that can feel really nervous, right, and trying
7:42
Speaker 1: to build those you know, it feels a little like
7:46
Speaker 1: a big mountain to climb, like, oh, I have to
7:49
Speaker 1: what am I going to do? But for some other people,
7:52
Speaker 1: the challenge is to not come in with that.
7:55
Speaker 2: Heat right right, to rein it back a little, Yeah.
7:59
Speaker 1: To rein it back a little wit and you know
8:00
Speaker 1: things are not going well, and your Mama bear instinct
8:03
Speaker 1: says like, I'm going to go in there and tell
8:05
Speaker 1: them what needs to happen.
8:07
Speaker 2: Yep.
8:08
Speaker 1: We got to kind of bring that back in with
8:10
Speaker 1: that idea that collaboration really is the long term best
8:14
Speaker 1: strategy because you don't want to burn bridges or strain
8:20
Speaker 1: a relationship that you know you're going to have to
8:22
Speaker 1: have for quite a while. So whatever you can do
8:25
Speaker 1: to lead, I always say lead with curiosity. So the
8:28
Speaker 1: way you phrased it was perfect that you can come
8:32
Speaker 1: with all that really great information you have as the
8:34
Speaker 1: expert in your kid. But then if we put on
8:37
Speaker 1: that lens of leading with curiosity, we take that and say, okay,
8:41
Speaker 1: this is what I'm seeing. What are you seeing? Right?
8:44
Speaker 1: We turn it into a question instead of a demand
8:48
Speaker 1: or a statement, and that opens doors that says, oh,
8:52
Speaker 1: what am I seeing? Okay, I noticed this or I
8:55
Speaker 1: noticed that instead of if you said, for instance, like
8:59
Speaker 1: I'm expert in my kid and you need to do X,
9:01
Speaker 1: Y or Z. Right, No one in any kind of relationship,
9:06
Speaker 1: in a professional setting, in friendships, wants to be confronted
9:10
Speaker 1: like that, right. It doesn't feel good in any setting,
9:14
Speaker 1: And especially for teachers who have very difficult jobs. We
9:19
Speaker 1: know this, and they are stretched very thin, and they're
9:22
Speaker 1: under resourced, and so it can feel like an attack.
9:26
Speaker 1: If you come in like really hot and aren't leading
9:31
Speaker 1: with that collaboration, it can feel really threatening.
9:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, one hundred percent.
9:37
Speaker 1: I mean the same is true in the other direction too.
9:40
Speaker 1: Then you know, parents want to feel like their teachers
9:44
Speaker 1: are really working with them because they care so deeply
9:49
Speaker 1: about their kids.
9:51
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And I came to realize pretty early on too,
9:54
Speaker 2: that teachers are not educated on neurodivergence and learning just abilities.
10:01
Speaker 2: You would think that a teacher would need to have
10:03
Speaker 2: some knowledge about at least learning disabilities, but they don't.
10:07
Speaker 2: You can get a degree and a certification, and you
10:10
Speaker 2: can teach for decades and not understand ADHD autism Desgraviat dyslexia,
10:16
Speaker 2: all those things. Executive functioning. You know, I've probably told
10:20
Speaker 2: the story on this podcast before, but we had in
10:23
Speaker 2: I believe tenth grade, we got a new special ed boss,
10:28
Speaker 2: like she wasn't his connection, his teacher, but she was
10:33
Speaker 2: in charge of them. And we were in a meeting
10:36
Speaker 2: and I used the term executive function and she had
10:39
Speaker 2: been a special ed teacher for twenty five years. She
10:42
Speaker 2: did not know the term executive function. That was a
10:45
Speaker 2: huge eye opener for me, huge and she was very
10:49
Speaker 2: eager to learn. She actually asked me to bring my books.
10:55
Speaker 2: She knew that I had written books and asked me
10:56
Speaker 2: to bring my books for her to read. She was
10:59
Speaker 2: very open and year to learn. But like when we
11:01
Speaker 2: start these conversations with teachers, we have to realize that
11:06
Speaker 2: your kid is not struggling in their classroom because they
11:08
Speaker 2: don't care. Your kid is struggling in their classroom because
11:11
Speaker 2: they may not understand how to help them. Yes, they
11:14
Speaker 2: may not yet have that knowledge right. And then the
11:17
Speaker 2: question becomes, how do we impart the knowledge without being overbearing,
11:21
Speaker 2: without seeming like we're trying to tell them what to do.
11:25
Speaker 1: That's a big challenge, I think, and you're right. I
11:28
Speaker 1: was personally also really surprised, you know, confused by the
11:33
Speaker 1: fact that teachers don't learn this information, because in an
11:36
Speaker 1: ideal world they would. It makes sense that the teachers
11:41
Speaker 1: need to know about the breadth of neurodiversity and about
11:45
Speaker 1: how different brains work and how different kids learn. You
11:49
Speaker 1: would think that, but unfortunately, our teacher training programs are
11:53
Speaker 1: not doing a good job. I mean, I think there
11:55
Speaker 1: are lots of folks trying to push them in that direction,
11:59
Speaker 1: and I know teachers who individually have done some of
12:02
Speaker 1: that work to gain, you know, more knowledge and information,
12:07
Speaker 1: but I think it's fair to say that we can
12:09
Speaker 1: assume they might not know. And so, you know, I
12:13
Speaker 1: was talking earlier about gathering that information. As a parent,
12:18
Speaker 1: that's where this becomes even more critical, because we when
12:22
Speaker 1: our kids are having trouble in school, we are often
12:26
Speaker 1: turned to to try to help figure it out. And
12:29
Speaker 1: this is where you know, I started my business because
12:32
Speaker 1: my own kids struggled in school for so long, and
12:35
Speaker 1: I was that bewildered parent. You know, people, teachers, administrators
12:39
Speaker 1: would say to me, like, you know, something needs to change,
12:42
Speaker 1: and I'd say, WHOA, I don't know what I'm not
12:47
Speaker 1: the expert here, Yeah, how am I supposed to know?
12:50
Speaker 1: And so the burden really gets placed a lot on parents,
12:53
Speaker 1: and because there isn't this broad knowledge in education around
12:58
Speaker 1: how to meet the needs of all of these kids.
13:01
Speaker 1: And so if we can do as parents do more
13:04
Speaker 1: of that work. And I know it sounds like a lot,
13:06
Speaker 1: and sometimes it is. The more we can understand things
13:10
Speaker 1: like executive functioning, things like how you know your child's
13:13
Speaker 1: ADHD shows up for them at school, and the more
13:17
Speaker 1: we can really advocate and do so, you know, you
13:22
Speaker 1: mentioned that kind of paradox about wanting to suggest things
13:25
Speaker 1: while also not trying to be in this. I hear
13:28
Speaker 1: this a lot from parents being that parent, you know,
13:30
Speaker 1: the pushy, the overbearing. It's a huge concern for parents, right,
13:37
Speaker 1: And yet I often talk about like reframing that. Okay,
13:41
Speaker 1: let's reframe this fear around being that parent. What if
13:45
Speaker 1: what we're really doing is being proactive, right, so that
13:49
Speaker 1: takes it from being a negative to you know, more
13:51
Speaker 1: of a positive. What we're really trying to do. Our
13:54
Speaker 1: goal is not to be adversarial. Our goal is to
13:59
Speaker 1: help head off problems, to make the teacher's job easier.
14:03
Speaker 1: Ultimately that's our goal. Yeah, right, because nobody wants to
14:06
Speaker 1: be frustrated teachers or parents. Wouldn't we rather have done
14:13
Speaker 1: a little work now and save ourselves a lot of
14:16
Speaker 1: hasse later. So part of it is like us as
14:20
Speaker 1: parents just like reframing that and thinking like, okay, are
14:23
Speaker 1: there ways to do this that don't burn those bridges,
14:27
Speaker 1: that don't create that adversarial relationship. So that means, you know, hey,
14:34
Speaker 1: I've been, you know, doing some research about how my
14:38
Speaker 1: son's ADHD is really impacting him at school. Can I
14:41
Speaker 1: share some of that with you instead of you need
14:45
Speaker 1: to read this article?
14:46
Speaker 2: Yeah you know these twenty articles. Well, yeah, we definitely
14:51
Speaker 2: don't want to do that.
14:52
Speaker 1: No, So being open and offering resources in a collaborative way,
15:00
Speaker 1: you know, you'll find teachers who say, oh, yeah, that
15:03
Speaker 1: was really interesting. I didn't know that, and but I
15:07
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes we don't always find that clarif you know, welcoming,
15:12
Speaker 1: but we got to keep showing up for our kids.
15:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, that permission for sharing just hit me like a
15:19
Speaker 2: ton of bricks because never in my child's whole school
15:22
Speaker 2: career did I ever ask before I shared information. But
15:27
Speaker 2: how different that tone would have been and what teacher's
15:32
Speaker 2: gonna say no, like they're gonna say yes. It may
15:36
Speaker 2: take a few days before you know, you get a response,
15:39
Speaker 2: you're able to share it. That would have been painful
15:42
Speaker 2: for me, But had I done that, it would have
15:45
Speaker 2: changed a lot of conversations and the just the dynamic,
15:52
Speaker 2: the energy between us would have been different. Not that
15:56
Speaker 2: I was going like you need to read this and
15:58
Speaker 2: you need to implement this, but I would share things
16:00
Speaker 2: without being asked or prompted when I thought they were relevant.
16:05
Speaker 2: And it just struck me that just like asking that question,
16:09
Speaker 2: can I share this with you this is what I'm learning,
16:12
Speaker 2: would be such a different way to go about it,
16:14
Speaker 2: that would be so much more positive.
16:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean there are some who are more welcoming,
16:21
Speaker 1: you know, who might say, for instance, like oh, I
16:23
Speaker 1: want to know more about this, like give me, you know,
16:26
Speaker 1: give me all the information. But if you have somebody
16:28
Speaker 1: who's more hesitant or who you know, I've encountered teachers
16:31
Speaker 1: who say, like, I know what I'm doing, I'm an
16:34
Speaker 1: experienced teacher, and so they see you can tell that
16:37
Speaker 1: they see it as a potential threat to their authority. Yeah,
16:41
Speaker 1: that's where these kinds of you know, strategies leading with
16:46
Speaker 1: a curiosity piece can really help soften that defensiveness and
16:52
Speaker 1: open them up to saying like, okay, maybe I do
16:54
Speaker 1: have some things to learn.
16:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and too it opens the door for collaboration,
17:00
Speaker 2: Like it's setting the foundation for collaboration. It's just doing
17:04
Speaker 2: so much that one little strategy does so much. It's
17:09
Speaker 2: so helpful. Wow, where were you fifteen years ago?
17:13
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I wish I could say that I
17:15
Speaker 1: always you know, I always did it myself too, But
17:19
Speaker 1: you know, we live and learn, yes, and we try
17:22
Speaker 1: better the next time.
17:24
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah. It just sends the right message, it
17:27
Speaker 2: sends a different message, or it can't be misconstrued. I think,
17:31
Speaker 2: like I was very kind and wanted to be collaborative
17:35
Speaker 2: with teachers, but that's like the next step toward. Like
17:40
Speaker 2: I see that you're overwhelmed. I don't want to overwhelm
17:42
Speaker 2: you with information. Can I share this with you? Right,
17:46
Speaker 2: we're seeing that they have lots of kids in the classroom.
17:48
Speaker 2: It isn't just ours. We're sort of quietly acknowledging that
17:53
Speaker 2: they have a lot on their plate because a lot
17:55
Speaker 2: of times when we come in advocating strongly. It's felt
18:00
Speaker 2: that we don't get that they're overworked and underpaid and
18:04
Speaker 2: have a lot of students and have a lot on
18:06
Speaker 2: their plate, you know, And so it really sort of
18:09
Speaker 2: addresses that too, which can really get in the way.
18:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I encourage parents as well to find other
18:16
Speaker 1: ways to be supportive of a teacher so that you
18:21
Speaker 1: are also showing up in ways that remind them that
18:25
Speaker 1: you care about their success. So, you know, when there's
18:28
Speaker 1: a call for volunteers, can you be someone who raises
18:32
Speaker 1: their hands? Are there ways that you help around the
18:35
Speaker 1: school or participate in the PTA or whatever that might
18:40
Speaker 1: look like, so you are seen as someone who cares
18:44
Speaker 1: about the success of the school and of that classroom
18:47
Speaker 1: and that teacher, and that you're not just in it
18:50
Speaker 1: for your own child's success, because I do think that
18:53
Speaker 1: makes a difference.
18:55
Speaker 2: It does for sure.
18:56
Speaker 1: These are all like two way relationships. And you know
18:59
Speaker 1: the if I scratch your back, you scratch mind thing.
19:02
Speaker 1: We have to be willing to give in a relationship too.
19:07
Speaker 2: You have to be willing to give to get right
19:10
Speaker 2: mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And if you don't have time,
19:13
Speaker 2: if you can't volunteer, if you work during the school
19:15
Speaker 2: day or whatever it might be. Right, there's other ways
19:17
Speaker 2: to make teachers feel seen and valued. Right, take them
19:22
Speaker 2: a coffee, take them a five dollars Starbucks card.
19:25
Speaker 1: I or participate in you know, teacher appreciation We write
19:29
Speaker 1: about the time we're recording this. And it doesn't have
19:32
Speaker 1: to be a lot of money. I don't you know,
19:35
Speaker 1: you don't have to spend money, but a card. Yeah,
19:37
Speaker 1: even a handwritten card that says I value you, I
19:41
Speaker 1: appreciate the work you're doing, and I really appreciate the
19:45
Speaker 1: relationship that we're building together to support my child who
19:50
Speaker 1: doesn't love to be acknowledged exactly.
19:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it can be such a small gesture. And
19:57
Speaker 2: there are things that they could use help with, especially
19:59
Speaker 2: in the younger grades and elementary that you can take
20:02
Speaker 2: home with you, Like they can send things home with
20:05
Speaker 2: your kid for you to cut out or do something
20:09
Speaker 2: with and send back. So there really are a lot
20:12
Speaker 2: of opportunities. I think we tend to get sort of
20:15
Speaker 2: tunnel vision around what volunteering for school looks like. Yes,
20:19
Speaker 2: and it can really be a lot of different things.
20:21
Speaker 2: There were a few times over the years that I
20:23
Speaker 2: took stuff home that I could do for the teacher
20:25
Speaker 2: to help them out when I couldn't be there in
20:28
Speaker 2: the classroom to do it right.
20:30
Speaker 1: Or you know, you show up on the weekend when
20:32
Speaker 1: there's a big playground cleanup or whatever the might look like.
20:36
Speaker 1: But if you can find things that fit into your schedule,
20:40
Speaker 1: I think it goes a long way to just showing
20:42
Speaker 1: your commitment to the bigger school community and their success.
20:54
Speaker 2: So now we've set the tone right to have a
20:58
Speaker 2: collaborative relationship. We're working on that, and we want to
21:02
Speaker 2: share some information about how our kids' brain works and
21:08
Speaker 2: what might be needed to help with that. If there's
21:11
Speaker 2: a mismatch between that and education, which there often is
21:14
Speaker 2: when we're talking about neurodiversion kids, can you give us
21:17
Speaker 2: some phrases or conversation starters, or you know, how do
21:23
Speaker 2: we talk about the brain in a way that's received
21:27
Speaker 2: well by teachers and understood and also leads us to
21:30
Speaker 2: that conversation about Okay, what can we change? What can
21:32
Speaker 2: we do right?
21:34
Speaker 1: Well, we've kind of talked around some of them already.
21:37
Speaker 1: You know that curiosity goes a long way again, so
21:41
Speaker 1: you can say I'm learning that my child has some
21:47
Speaker 1: challenges with executive functioning, And I'm really wondering how we
21:52
Speaker 1: can think about that at school? What are you seeing?
21:55
Speaker 1: You know, it's the leading with exploration, you know, think
22:00
Speaker 1: about it like putting your detective hat on, and that's
22:02
Speaker 1: the kind of questioning you want to do. And also
22:07
Speaker 1: you know, acknowledging their expertise. I mean, the truth is,
22:12
Speaker 1: as parents, we send our kids off to school and
22:15
Speaker 1: we cross our fingers and hope for the best, right
22:18
Speaker 1: because we are not there.
22:20
Speaker 3: You know, and as we're told to do right, right,
22:24
Speaker 3: that's what we're especially as they get older, we're really
22:26
Speaker 3: told to get involved.
22:30
Speaker 1: So we are not an expert. You know, some who
22:33
Speaker 1: might be educators themselves, but most parents are not educators.
22:37
Speaker 1: So we're gonna you know, try to mine their the
22:41
Speaker 1: teachers expertise. Well, what have you found that's worked for
22:45
Speaker 1: kids like this.
22:46
Speaker 2: In the past. Yeah, you know, it could be.
22:48
Speaker 1: That they have had strategies they've used before, but they
22:50
Speaker 1: haven't really thought about using them in this particular setting,
22:53
Speaker 1: or you know, things are busy and they hadn't thought
22:56
Speaker 1: about Oh yeah that one time I tried this, you know.
22:59
Speaker 1: So we're just trying to like be collaborative and open
23:04
Speaker 1: up conversations and no two that, like one conversation is
23:08
Speaker 1: probably not going to like solve the world. It is
23:10
Speaker 1: not going to do everything you wanted to do. That's
23:14
Speaker 1: just how it goes. So my other suggestion would be
23:17
Speaker 1: to just like be the person who follows up yes,
23:20
Speaker 1: and so if you have a meeting, for instance, send
23:24
Speaker 1: a thank you note email that just says, like, I
23:27
Speaker 1: appreciated meeting. These are the highlights of what we discussed.
23:31
Speaker 1: Because everyone's busy, right, they're not going to remember. And
23:36
Speaker 1: you know, if you can be the one who's kind
23:38
Speaker 1: of tracking that, that's super useful and asking for you know,
23:43
Speaker 1: can we have another meeting in two weeks and see
23:45
Speaker 1: how this goes. So we're just still taking on some
23:48
Speaker 1: of the responsibility for being that collaborative, like leading with
23:53
Speaker 1: kindness and leading with good intention. That's another thing I
23:57
Speaker 1: always talk to people about. We're assuming that they want
24:01
Speaker 1: to do their best.
24:02
Speaker 2: For our kids.
24:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're just going to like go into every conversation
24:05
Speaker 1: with that is our you know, the lens through which
24:08
Speaker 1: we're entering our conversations.
24:10
Speaker 2: Even if it doesn't feel that way to you, you
24:13
Speaker 2: still need to do it.
24:14
Speaker 1: We still need to do it. Yes, because it helps
24:19
Speaker 1: soften those defenses, right, that the prickly stuff that we
24:24
Speaker 1: all do when we feel a little like someone's coming
24:27
Speaker 1: at us. So we're just assuming. And that means that
24:31
Speaker 1: if you've asked a question and you haven't gotten a response,
24:34
Speaker 1: just send another email, just say, like just double checking,
24:38
Speaker 1: this might have gotten lost, yeah, without the like they
24:41
Speaker 1: didn't you know response to me.
24:43
Speaker 2: I sent you this email at nine to twelve am
24:46
Speaker 2: on April fourth, and it said this, I have no response.
24:51
Speaker 2: What is wrong?
24:51
Speaker 1: Response? What is wrong? No? What is wrong is that
24:54
Speaker 1: they have, you know, thirty kids in their classroom. And
24:58
Speaker 1: another strategy I also so encourage is to try to
25:03
Speaker 1: meet them the teachers where they are at. With regards
25:06
Speaker 1: to communication, So this is another question. The thing we
25:09
Speaker 1: can ask, how would you like me to best communicate
25:12
Speaker 1: with you? What works best for you? Because I might
25:16
Speaker 1: be on email all day, but they are not on
25:19
Speaker 1: email all day. Some people, you know, like responding to
25:22
Speaker 1: parents via email. Sometimes they're like, please don't send me
25:26
Speaker 1: another email. I have two thousand unread in my mailbox.
25:29
Speaker 1: I will never see it. Okay, So would you prefer
25:33
Speaker 1: that I drop in after school? I pick up? Is
25:36
Speaker 1: that easiest for you. So then you're like really trying
25:39
Speaker 1: to make life easier for them in getting that communication flowing.
25:45
Speaker 1: So whatever you can do to be the flexible one
25:49
Speaker 1: always helps.
25:51
Speaker 2: M Yeah, you're addressing their needs so that they can
25:55
Speaker 2: address their needs, right. Yeah, everybody should get what they need.
26:00
Speaker 2: We talk about this with our kids all the time,
26:02
Speaker 2: and it's no different in these relationships. Everybody has a
26:06
Speaker 2: need and everybody deserves to have their need met. Yes,
26:09
Speaker 2: and keeping an eye on that I think is hopeful.
26:12
Speaker 1: And it's true that their schedules are not flexible. It's
26:17
Speaker 1: just the nature of their work. So if we can
26:19
Speaker 1: just acknowledge that, like I know that you can't meet
26:22
Speaker 1: during the day or in the evening, because it's also
26:25
Speaker 1: true that they don't really they're not contracted to meet
26:28
Speaker 1: in the evenings. So can you find a way to
26:31
Speaker 1: make your schedules flexible enough to meet after school because
26:34
Speaker 1: that's when it works best for them.
26:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And if you do have conversations, follow
26:40
Speaker 2: it up in writing, as you were talking about earlier,
26:43
Speaker 2: sending that thank you and follow up, like, we do
26:45
Speaker 2: want to make sure that it's recorded in case we
26:48
Speaker 2: need it at some point in the future, and so
26:51
Speaker 2: any verbal conversations I had, I always made sure to
26:54
Speaker 2: follow them up. I try to follow up meetings too.
26:57
Speaker 2: I learned that sometimes like there's just mis communication. I
27:01
Speaker 2: might walk away from a meeting with expectations that are
27:04
Speaker 2: different than the teachers and educators walk away with. And
27:08
Speaker 2: so when you follow it up, you get to figure
27:12
Speaker 2: that out before everybody's on each other's throats, right, you
27:16
Speaker 2: get to figure it out early when it matters.
27:19
Speaker 1: That's an opportunity to say, these are the notes I
27:21
Speaker 1: have from the meeting. If you have any edits or
27:24
Speaker 1: anything you'd like to add, let me know. Right, you're
27:26
Speaker 1: opening it up to this is what I'm remembering and
27:30
Speaker 1: what I wrote down. But if there, you know, if
27:32
Speaker 1: there's something else, just let me know.
27:34
Speaker 2: Yeah.
27:35
Speaker 1: It also just says this is not set in stone
27:38
Speaker 1: that I am right, this is, you know, And they
27:41
Speaker 1: might come back and say, oh, I don't remember us
27:43
Speaker 1: talking about that piece, you know, or I had a
27:47
Speaker 1: different understanding. Okay, then we're in conversation about it.
27:52
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I would always end those emails too with
27:54
Speaker 2: if there's anything that's on your to do list that
27:57
Speaker 2: I can take care of, let me know.
27:59
Speaker 1: Oh, I like it.
28:00
Speaker 2: That is, I did have flexible work. I was doing
28:03
Speaker 2: different work then, but I still get to make my
28:05
Speaker 2: own schedule and so I could make myself available to
28:10
Speaker 2: be helpful. Like I wanted them to feel that. I
28:13
Speaker 2: didn't expect them to do everything for my kid. We
28:16
Speaker 2: were in it together to get him what he needs
28:18
Speaker 2: and deserves. Yes, it wasn't that I was just like, well,
28:21
Speaker 2: you need to do all this, you know, And sometimes
28:25
Speaker 2: no matter how hard I tried, I would still get
28:28
Speaker 2: met with that defense from educators. And I think it's
28:32
Speaker 2: just from past experiences, like it doesn't mean that necessarily
28:37
Speaker 2: you did something wrong as a parent in the way
28:39
Speaker 2: that you were having conversations or anything like that. Their
28:41
Speaker 2: prickles might already be up as a protection because people
28:44
Speaker 2: are blaming them in the past, or you know, like
28:47
Speaker 2: everybody has a backstory. Everybody has history, and we try
28:52
Speaker 2: not to bring ours to the table, and we hope
28:55
Speaker 2: that they don't either, but we do have to recognize
28:58
Speaker 2: that sometimes you know, oh, that's what's happening. It isn't
29:02
Speaker 2: necessarily about us or our kid or them not caring.
29:05
Speaker 2: It's that, you know, hard things have happened, yes, and
29:08
Speaker 2: they're still carrying some baggage.
29:10
Speaker 1: And they might have gotten burned in the past by
29:13
Speaker 1: you know, parents who were overly demanding or aggressive or
29:18
Speaker 1: you know. I'm sure, I'm sure they often have stories
29:22
Speaker 1: they can tell. But let's try, if we can, to
29:25
Speaker 1: not be one of these stories. Yeah, let's try to
29:28
Speaker 1: be the one that they look back on and say,
29:31
Speaker 1: you know, I think they helped me, you know, learn
29:34
Speaker 1: a little bit that. I was just telling this story
29:37
Speaker 1: the other day and I'll share it here that when
29:38
Speaker 1: my kid was really really having a hard time in
29:41
Speaker 1: elementary school, we had a teacher who was a lovely person.
29:44
Speaker 1: She was so nice, but she kept coming to me saying,
29:49
Speaker 1: something's got to change, like this is not working all
29:52
Speaker 1: of the things right. And that's where I left feeling,
29:55
Speaker 1: I have no idea what to do. So we went
29:57
Speaker 1: through this whole process in the year and she said
29:59
Speaker 1: to me me, I'm an experienced teacher. I've been teaching
30:03
Speaker 1: for you know, a decade. I know what I'm doing,
30:06
Speaker 1: And that was her way of shutting down the conversation, right,
30:10
Speaker 1: And I don't to your point, I do not know
30:12
Speaker 1: what was behind that, but it was.
30:15
Speaker 2: A pretty clear, like hardline in the sand. Yeah, don't
30:18
Speaker 2: tell me what to do.
30:19
Speaker 1: But because I felt like she was a kind person.
30:23
Speaker 1: I think she was a good teacher, but it was
30:25
Speaker 1: just not the strategies that were not working well in
30:27
Speaker 1: the moment, I started bringing her information and we you know,
30:32
Speaker 1: I kept throughout the year like we were trying some things,
30:35
Speaker 1: and I kept sort of like in a very friendly way,
30:38
Speaker 1: trying to push things a little bit forward. And at
30:41
Speaker 1: the very end of the year, she came to me
30:43
Speaker 1: and she said, you know, remember when I said that
30:45
Speaker 1: I knew what I was doing. I think I actually
30:47
Speaker 1: learned some things this year, and it was well, it
30:51
Speaker 1: was frustrating to have had.
30:53
Speaker 2: To go through all of that.
30:56
Speaker 1: It was also like, Okay, there is some like real
30:59
Speaker 1: good right there that this is an experienced teacher who
31:02
Speaker 1: is willing to say, you know, I learned some things
31:04
Speaker 1: right right. That opens the door for the next parent.
31:08
Speaker 1: So we're also, in addition to like building those strong
31:12
Speaker 1: relationships for ourself, I think we're also showing teachers this
31:16
Speaker 1: is what's possible. Yeah, right, So hopefully the next time
31:20
Speaker 1: they're not feeling prickly and they have, you know, better
31:24
Speaker 1: collaborative stories to tell about working with parents and learning
31:29
Speaker 1: and being you know open.
31:31
Speaker 2: I'm such a visualizer. As we've been talking, like the
31:34
Speaker 2: last half of this conversation, I'm imagining a detective partnership.
31:38
Speaker 2: You know, usually police officers, detectives, they're they're in they
31:42
Speaker 2: have a partner, right, And so the parents is one partner,
31:45
Speaker 2: the teacher is one partner, and you're detectives. You're trying
31:49
Speaker 2: to figure out what's happening. And then the extra layer
31:54
Speaker 2: for us is what can we do about it? Right,
31:56
Speaker 2: So it's like this collaborative to use Ross Green's old
32:01
Speaker 2: term collaborative problem solving, like we can do that together
32:06
Speaker 2: with the teachers. And if we just go in with
32:08
Speaker 2: that mindset that we're doing this work together, I think
32:13
Speaker 2: it helps on both sides.
32:15
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely. And it takes pressure off, right to feel like,
32:19
Speaker 1: oh I am not alone. Someone else is invested in
32:24
Speaker 1: my kid's success. Yeah yeah, I mean that feels huge
32:27
Speaker 1: As a parent, that's what we want, and teachers want
32:31
Speaker 1: to know that parents are invested in helping them be successful.
32:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that you're supporting them too. That support can
32:41
Speaker 2: go both ways.
32:43
Speaker 1: Yeah.
32:44
Speaker 2: So for parents listening, what would you say, is there
32:48
Speaker 2: one first, small next step to take action on what
32:51
Speaker 2: they've learned from this conversation.
32:54
Speaker 1: Their first action is to ask a question and exploratory
33:00
Speaker 1: question about what are they noticing? Was there an assignment
33:04
Speaker 1: that was particularly difficult? What can you let's ask a
33:07
Speaker 1: question about that. You know, I noticed these math equations
33:10
Speaker 1: were kind of challenging when we were doing the homework.
33:13
Speaker 1: You know, how can we support him in figuring out
33:15
Speaker 1: these concepts? You know, whatever it is, pick one investigative
33:20
Speaker 1: question and send an email, or ask after school, or
33:24
Speaker 1: find a way to open that door just a little.
33:28
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love that. It really does go a long way.
33:31
Speaker 2: It is really powerful just to set that relationship in
33:34
Speaker 2: that tone of that relationship and the energy.
33:36
Speaker 1: And I will say, this's never too late, right, And
33:39
Speaker 1: the end of the school year is actually a great
33:42
Speaker 1: time to be doing that investigative work because it will
33:47
Speaker 1: benefit your child next year.
33:49
Speaker 2: Yeah.
33:49
Speaker 1: So it's not as if the end of the school
33:52
Speaker 1: year means, oh, there's nothing to pay attention to because
33:54
Speaker 1: it's all going to be over. No, we're actually like,
33:57
Speaker 1: we're gathering that information so we can move it forward
33:59
Speaker 1: with us.
34:02
Speaker 2: I've been thinking a lot about back to school prep
34:05
Speaker 2: because I'm going to do the back to school prep
34:07
Speaker 2: week again this summer in twenty twenty five, and as
34:11
Speaker 2: you were talking, it dawned on me that we need
34:14
Speaker 2: to do an end of school year debrief, like what
34:17
Speaker 2: has the teacher noticed, what times of the day are harder,
34:20
Speaker 2: what activities are harder? Like is there a kid who
34:23
Speaker 2: shouldn't be in class? They shouldn't be in class together
34:26
Speaker 2: the next time, which happened to us, and fortunately I
34:29
Speaker 2: was able to work with the administrators who were open
34:31
Speaker 2: to saying, okay, we'll make sure that they're not in
34:33
Speaker 2: a classroom together. You know, there's so much information there
34:37
Speaker 2: that we can get. And of course teachers don't have
34:39
Speaker 2: time to do thirty five debriefs, and that's just elementary.
34:44
Speaker 2: If they have six classes with thirty some kids, right,
34:47
Speaker 2: it's a lot. But you know, if you can just
34:49
Speaker 2: be strategic and asking a few questions, then you'll have
34:54
Speaker 2: some data going all the way back to the beginning
34:57
Speaker 2: of what you were guiding us through to then use
35:01
Speaker 2: to maybe set them up for a little bit more
35:03
Speaker 2: success as you move into the next school year. Maybe
35:06
Speaker 2: there's some data from this year that would be really
35:09
Speaker 2: smart to share with the new teacher. At the start
35:11
Speaker 2: of next year, right one.
35:13
Speaker 1: Hundred and fifty percent. This is exactly what I like
35:16
Speaker 1: to talk about this time of year, because you know
35:19
Speaker 1: that teacher has had now nine months to really get
35:23
Speaker 1: to know your kid, and rather than just letting that
35:26
Speaker 1: information a data like go poof into the ether, what
35:30
Speaker 1: can we do to document it? You know, what have
35:32
Speaker 1: we noticed? Can you write it down? There are all
35:34
Speaker 1: sorts of ways you can do that. I also developed
35:37
Speaker 1: a tool called the teacher Fit Template, which is basically
35:41
Speaker 1: like using that information you gather and then writing a
35:43
Speaker 1: letter not to request a specific teacher, because most schools
35:47
Speaker 1: will not let you pick favorites about teacher placement, nor
35:51
Speaker 1: should they really, but to talk about what your specific
35:54
Speaker 1: kids needs are and how what you know about classroom
35:59
Speaker 1: setting where they thrive, and then letting them use that
36:03
Speaker 1: information to inform their decisions about class placement.
36:07
Speaker 2: And you know, administrators really do want their job to
36:13
Speaker 2: be easier and more successful. They want to see their
36:16
Speaker 2: teachers succeed. They want to see the kids succeed because
36:18
Speaker 2: it does make it easier for them if you know
36:21
Speaker 2: something about a teacher fit or something about the class placement.
36:27
Speaker 2: They really do want to hear it. They don't want
36:30
Speaker 2: you to come in and say, put my kid in
36:32
Speaker 2: this class, But if you have valuable information, it's going
36:36
Speaker 2: to save them time and stress in the long term,
36:38
Speaker 2: right if it can make a change in that placement.
36:41
Speaker 2: So we were fortunate to have several administrators over the
36:44
Speaker 2: years who were really collaborative with me on that. Okay,
36:48
Speaker 2: this is you know, the three teachers that we have
36:50
Speaker 2: to choose from. These are sort of the ways that
36:53
Speaker 2: each one focuses their classroom or the ways that they
36:56
Speaker 2: instruct and what do you see about the potential matches here,
37:02
Speaker 2: And then they're sharing what they see about those potential
37:04
Speaker 2: matches as well, because we did have some really bad fits.
37:09
Speaker 2: There was even a school year where my kid was
37:11
Speaker 2: moved to a different teacher at the beginning of the
37:13
Speaker 2: fourth quarter. Oh jeez, that's hard because it was so
37:17
Speaker 2: bad and it was actually it was magical. The new
37:21
Speaker 2: teacher was just amazing. It didn't have the social impact
37:26
Speaker 2: that I thought I was going to have. And I
37:28
Speaker 2: even run into other parents who had kids in that
37:30
Speaker 2: original teacher's classroom with us in the last few years.
37:34
Speaker 2: You know, our kids are young adults now and they
37:37
Speaker 2: will even say, oh, gosh, did you know she's still teaching.
37:39
Speaker 2: Did you feel like it wasn't a good fit for anyone? Necessarily,
37:43
Speaker 2: it's not even just the teacher's approach, although sometimes that
37:46
Speaker 2: makes a big difference. It's also like the class dynamics.
37:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you know that, you know your child
37:52
Speaker 1: gets really dysregulated when there's a lot of chaos, and
37:57
Speaker 1: that there are certain groups of you know, or high
38:00
Speaker 1: need students who they might not be a good fit with.
38:04
Speaker 1: That's all really valuable. Yeah, right, And to your point
38:07
Speaker 1: about switching classes, I mean, sometimes that actually is a
38:10
Speaker 1: decent option. I had just a couple of years ago,
38:15
Speaker 1: my son was doing that well in his math class
38:17
Speaker 1: because it was a high need group. He got really
38:20
Speaker 1: just regulated and then he caused you know, then he
38:23
Speaker 1: starts contributing to the problem. And we were able to
38:27
Speaker 1: talk with the school counselor and talk with the teacher
38:29
Speaker 1: and come up with a plan to move him and
38:31
Speaker 1: just into another section, and then needed great. You know.
38:34
Speaker 1: So sometimes it's like these little tweaks can make everybody's
38:37
Speaker 1: life easier.
38:38
Speaker 2: Yeah. We just need to see the signals. I need
38:42
Speaker 2: to see the behavior as signals and then ask the
38:44
Speaker 2: question what do they need? Why is this not working right?
38:47
Speaker 2: And then do something about it. Yeah, Scotty, I always
38:51
Speaker 2: learned so much from you. Oh will you tell everybody
38:53
Speaker 2: listening where they can find you online so that they
38:56
Speaker 2: can connect and learn more and maybe work with you.
38:58
Speaker 1: Oh well, thank you so much for that. You can
39:00
Speaker 1: find me online every frameparenting dot com, and there you'll
39:04
Speaker 1: find a blog with lots of good information. I just
39:08
Speaker 1: wrote a blog post the other day about after school
39:10
Speaker 1: restraint collapse, so that one is one I have some
39:15
Speaker 1: some strong experience with. But you'll find all sorts of
39:19
Speaker 1: information on my blog. I'm also starting my own podcast soon.
39:23
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's going to be called Unlocking School Success,
39:26
Speaker 1: so be looking for that on my It'll all be
39:29
Speaker 1: on my website.
39:30
Speaker 2: Awesome, and I will link that up in the show
39:32
Speaker 2: notes for everyone at Parenting ADHD and Autism dot Com
39:35
Speaker 2: slash three one four for episode three hundred and fourteen.
39:40
Speaker 2: I'll see everybody next time. Take good care. Thanks for
39:44
Speaker 2: joining me on the Beautifully Complex podcast. If you enjoyed
39:48
Speaker 2: this episode, please subscribe and share, and don't forget to
39:51
Speaker 2: check out my online courses and parent coaching at parenting
39:55
Speaker 2: ADHD and autism dot com and at the Behavior revolution
40:00
Speaker 2: dot com