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Russia and Ukraine trade deadly strikes as US and Moscow hold talks · DEEP INSIGHT

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Russian attacks on Ukraine's capital Kiev had killed at least
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: six people, according to the city's mayor, and in just
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: some developing news, a US official has confirmed to the
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  Speaker 1: BBC that they're now meeting Russian representatives in Abu Dhabi.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Following the Geneva talks between the US and Ukraine about
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  Speaker 1: a draft peace plan, where Russia attacked Kiv with a
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  Speaker 1: wave of missiles and drones. The night sky over the
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  Speaker 1: Ukrainian capital was lit up with explosions. Officials say two
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  Speaker 1: residential apartment blocks were hit, and the city's mayor said
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  Speaker 1: that a central high rise building was evacuated. Once again.
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  Speaker 1: Residents of the city made their way down into the
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  Speaker 1: metro system to spend the night sheltering from the Russian attack.
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  Speaker 1: Well in Russia, the governor of Rostov Region said that
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  Speaker 1: Ukrainian drones killed three people and wounded ten more six
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  Speaker 1: were hit in Krasnogar, a Russian defense officials say that
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  Speaker 1: more than two hundred Ukrainian drones were destroyed, and the
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  Speaker 1: uk Prime Minister Sakis Dama is going to speak to
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  Speaker 1: Ukraine's European allies later today, after Washington and Kiev said
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  Speaker 1: that they've agreed a refined peace framework in talks over
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  Speaker 1: the weekend. Well, our Ukraine reporter abdu Jalil abdu Rusalov
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  Speaker 1: is in Kiev. He says there have been reports from
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  Speaker 1: Moscow about the Kremlin spokesperson's initial reaction to the revised plan.
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  Speaker 2: Well, we are now actually getting reports from Moscow that
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  Speaker 2: Mitripiskov mentioned about this new revised document. Mitripiscov, the spokesperson
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  Speaker 2: of President Ladimir Putin. He referred to it as substantial.
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  Speaker 2: So does that mean that the Russian side may accept
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  Speaker 2: the new revised document. We still don't know, but there
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  Speaker 2: are some signs that the original document, the twenty eight
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  Speaker 2: point peace plans suggested by the US, is now being changed.
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  Speaker 2: And Vladim bes Zalinski mentioned about this document and said
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  Speaker 2: that the new version of this document is doable, as
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  Speaker 2: he called it, and he says that the new draft
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  Speaker 2: includes fewer points, but it has right elements. That means
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  Speaker 2: that the Ukrainian side is far more optimistic and they
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  Speaker 2: may see the new version of this peace plan is
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  Speaker 2: something that they can work with and that's something that
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  Speaker 2: can bring peace in Ukraine. However, the most contentious bits
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  Speaker 2: in this peace plan, such as the territory and the
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  Speaker 2: Natal membership has not been directly addressed in the new version.
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  Speaker 2: According to the President Zelenski, he says that that's the
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  Speaker 2: right version, that's the right approach, because these things must
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  Speaker 2: be discussed directly between the presents, between him and Donald Trump. A.
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  Speaker 1: Jalil abdu Rosalov the reporting from Kiev. Let's pick up
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  Speaker 1: on some of those points with Orisia Lutsevit, director of
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  Speaker 1: the Russia and Eurasia Program at Chatham House, and also
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  Speaker 1: you're the head of the Ukraine Forum. Let's start with
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  Speaker 1: the territories because that was always a red line for
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  Speaker 1: President Zelenski. Did it have to go to that stage
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  Speaker 1: about taking over the whole of the donbas in order
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  Speaker 1: to move back and just move to the lines that
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  Speaker 1: Russia holds now.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I think it's very important to understand why the
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  Speaker 3: principle on the territory is important. It's important for Ukraine,
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  Speaker 3: but it's also important for the UN Charter. This is
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  Speaker 3: how we build relationship between sovereign nations, that the borders
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  Speaker 3: should not be changed by force. That's why, on one hand,
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  Speaker 3: Ukraine is insisting that there is no recognition of Russian
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  Speaker 3: occupation by United States or by any other democratic nation.
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  Speaker 3: And also that Ukraine is not pressured to retreat from
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  Speaker 3: its own sovereign territory and give it to the occupation
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  Speaker 3: of Russia. Also, especially because we know what kind of
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  Speaker 3: atrocities and prosecutions are happening on the territories for Ukrainian
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  Speaker 3: population and Ukrainian children.
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  Speaker 1: So would Ukrainian the Ukrainian population accept the lines as
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  Speaker 1: they are now with the territories that Russia occupies.
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  Speaker 3: What's important to understand, Kate is that in Ukraine people
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  Speaker 3: are ready for peace. They want peace, but not peace
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  Speaker 3: at any price. More than seventy percent of Ukrainians say yes,
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  Speaker 3: they would be happy to freeze the current line of contact,
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  Speaker 3: the front line, but the rest of the territory must
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  Speaker 3: receive a very strong security guarantees that the Russia will
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  Speaker 3: not reinvade after this phase of the war. And this
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  Speaker 3: is where Ukraine needs United States and Europe for the
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  Speaker 3: same matter, needs United States in order to make the
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  Speaker 3: security arrangement for the rest of Ukraine viable and for
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  Speaker 3: it to be a very strong deterrence against the future war.
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  Speaker 1: And arguably the strongest security guarantee is NATO membership. If
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  Speaker 1: that is off the table, is that acceptable to Ukrainians?
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  Speaker 3: I think at this point Ukraine is also making two points.
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  Speaker 3: One that Russia should not dictate whether in the future
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  Speaker 3: Ukraine should or should not be a member of NATO.
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  Speaker 3: That's a sovereign choice of Ukraine. But Ukraine is also
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  Speaker 3: ready to work with its allies, with the United States
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  Speaker 3: and with current NATO member nations to set up something
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  Speaker 3: special for Ukraine that is not ideal, that is actually
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  Speaker 3: threatening more of these nations who are backing Ukraine, not
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  Speaker 3: in a collective way as not NATO is. But if
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  Speaker 3: this is the reality, Ukraine is ready to work.
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  Speaker 1: With And of course the European Union were concerned that
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  Speaker 1: they had no involvement in this suggested peace plan. Are
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  Speaker 1: you concerned about how Donald Trump is pushing this through? Well?
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely. What is very concerning is that the plan originally
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  Speaker 3: put on the table last week was speaking on behalf
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  Speaker 3: of both NATO and you'reon and also these Russian sovereignessa's
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  Speaker 3: that are held in the EEU, especially Belgian jurisdiction, without
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  Speaker 3: any prior consultation with what everybody in Europe thinks to
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  Speaker 3: be an alliance. And this is where I think also
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  Speaker 3: a plan of Putinis is through these diplomacy around Ukraine,
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  Speaker 3: is to really wreck this transatlantic alliance which prevents him
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  Speaker 3: from his militaristic expansion in Europe. This is also one
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  Speaker 3: of his goals why he's engaging in this so called diplomacy.
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  Speaker 1: Arisia A. Ltseevich from Chathamhouse has always thank you very
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  Speaker 1: much also from the Ukraine Forum. I appreciate your thoughts there.
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  Speaker 1: Much more on this ongoing story, developing story also as
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  Speaker 1: we learn that US officials have confirmed to the BBC
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  Speaker 1: that they're going to be meeting Russian representatives in Abu
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  Speaker 1: Dhabi today, so much more on that, and of course
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  Speaker 1: also the strikes on the ground as well, with six
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  Speaker 1: people killed in strikes on Kiev. So do stay with
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  Speaker 1: us because we'll be coming back to this story throughout
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  Speaker 1: the day here on the BBC News Channel