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The Latest Dark Crusade: Christian Zionism, the Israel Lobby, and the War on Iran · UK Column Radio

0:16
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the UK Column Today. I am
0:19
Speaker 1: joined by Cliff Krakoff, author of Dark Crusade and former
0:23
Speaker 1: senior professional staff member at the US Senate Committee on
0:26
Speaker 1: Foreign Relations. Welcome to the program, Cliff.
0:29
Speaker 2: Hey, thank you so much for inviting me.
0:31
Speaker 3: Mike.
0:31
Speaker 1: The last time you were on the UK Column, which
0:33
Speaker 1: is far too long ago, I have to say, we
0:36
Speaker 1: were discussing the British origins of Christian Zionism. But of course,
0:41
Speaker 1: while it's originated here, it's definitely gained much more traction
0:45
Speaker 1: in the United States, where it is now apparently the
0:48
Speaker 1: core of military doctrine, it seems. I'm just wonder what
0:51
Speaker 1: your thoughts are on Trump's Trump's apparent efforts to bring
0:56
Speaker 1: about armageddon.
0:58
Speaker 2: Well, let's take a look at these Christian Zionists for
1:02
Speaker 2: a minute. They invented this doctrine in England in the
1:07
Speaker 2: eighteen twenties and thirties, and it was used by Palmerston
1:10
Speaker 2: as a foreign policy tool, that is to say, to
1:13
Speaker 2: rally public opinion, or at least Christian Zionist public opinion,
1:18
Speaker 2: for its Middle East policy, for imperialism in the Middle East.
1:23
Speaker 2: So fast forward today we have a couple hundred years later.
1:28
Speaker 2: That is what's going on in the White House with
1:33
Speaker 2: President Trump, the Secretary of State Rubio, Secretary of Defense HEG.
1:41
Speaker 2: Sas who is a Christian Zionist with tattoos to show it,
1:46
Speaker 2: anti Muslim tattoos and all sorts of things, and a
1:51
Speaker 2: lunatic quote unquote faith advisor in the White House PAULA White,
1:56
Speaker 2: who's another one of these Christian Zionists. She is now
1:59
Speaker 2: an big squabble with our traditional Roman Catholics here in
2:03
Speaker 2: the United States for having thrown out a Roman Catholic
2:08
Speaker 2: lady who was on the President's Faith advisory board. So
2:15
Speaker 2: we have I mean, as we speak, this is this
2:18
Speaker 2: is going on right now. So what we have then
2:21
Speaker 2: in the White House is a Christian Zionist mentality, and
2:26
Speaker 2: that mentality, as we talked about before, essentially wants to
2:31
Speaker 2: accelerate armageddon so that in their view, while they float
2:38
Speaker 2: up to heaven and won't be touched by armageddon, it
2:41
Speaker 2: will trigger Jesus return to Earth and the thousand year reign. It's,
2:49
Speaker 2: of course, it's complete heresing and fantasy, but that's what
2:52
Speaker 2: was invented two hundred years ago, and that's what we're
2:55
Speaker 2: confronted with now in the White House. And the other
2:59
Speaker 2: important fact in this is when it was invented, the
3:02
Speaker 2: targets of the ire of Christian Zionists who were to
3:08
Speaker 2: bring on Armageddon were the Russian Empire, the Chinese Empire,
3:14
Speaker 2: and the Persian Empire. Fast forward two hundred years and
3:19
Speaker 2: here we are with President Trump and Hegzath and the
3:23
Speaker 2: Christian Zionist crazies confronting Russia, China, and Iran.
3:30
Speaker 3: That must just be a coincidence.
3:34
Speaker 2: Actually, this has been made. This Christian Zionists approach has
3:38
Speaker 2: been maintained in the United States since it came here
3:41
Speaker 2: during our Civil War era, let's say the eighteen sixties.
3:45
Speaker 2: So it has spread throughout the United States in terms
3:49
Speaker 2: of various ministers, pastors, and it was institutionalized in Bible
3:53
Speaker 2: schools and conferences. And by the eighteen eighties, Christian Zionists
3:59
Speaker 2: were actually petitioning the President of the United States at
4:04
Speaker 2: that time, Harrison, to help return Jews to the Holy
4:09
Speaker 2: Land and to create a state of Israel. Essentially, so
4:13
Speaker 2: we even here in the United States had it back
4:17
Speaker 2: in the late nineteenth century. And it's interesting for us
4:20
Speaker 2: also to note that this goes on in parallel in
4:26
Speaker 2: the United States and in the UK. So all this time,
4:32
Speaker 2: decade by decade, while it is spreading here, we also
4:37
Speaker 2: have it in the UK. So that's why when the
4:42
Speaker 2: Zionist movement became influential in British politics in nineteen fourteen
4:49
Speaker 2: nineteen fifteen, during the World War One, Desiist that same
4:54
Speaker 2: grouping in London was touching base with the Jewish Zionists
5:00
Speaker 2: group here in the United States, led by Brandee, who
5:03
Speaker 2: became Supreme Court Justice. Brand Ice was sort of the
5:07
Speaker 2: leader of the American Jewish Zionists. At the same time,
5:12
Speaker 2: both in England and in the United States, the Christian
5:15
Speaker 2: Zionists were backstopping and supporting supporting the Jewish Zionist So
5:21
Speaker 2: you have two types.
5:22
Speaker 1: In a recent article that you published, you said today's
5:25
Speaker 1: heretical Christian Zionist sect alignce with the Jewish Zionists in
5:30
Speaker 1: the United States and in Israel. And I suppose my
5:32
Speaker 1: question is does it actually because why is it that
5:38
Speaker 1: Jewish Zionists are not recognizing or at this point not
5:43
Speaker 1: taking more cognizance of the fact that Christian Zionism relies
5:48
Speaker 1: on the idea that Jews will convert on mass to Christianity.
5:54
Speaker 2: That a long time ago was kind of papered over
6:00
Speaker 2: Jewish leaders. They figured, well, we'll allow that. The main
6:04
Speaker 2: thing is we get their votes. So the niceties of
6:08
Speaker 2: the Christian Zionists, our concept that only one hundred and
6:12
Speaker 2: forty four thousand Jews who convert will be left on earth,
6:15
Speaker 2: that's kind of papered over by the hardcore Zionists because
6:19
Speaker 2: what they're interested in is the vote. The voting. The
6:21
Speaker 2: Christian Zionist is a voting block, that is to say,
6:24
Speaker 2: to vote in their candidates or to vote for their
6:27
Speaker 2: pro Israel policy. So they'll kind of hold their nose,
6:31
Speaker 2: let's say, and get on with this alliance and pat
6:35
Speaker 2: the Christian Zionists on the back.
6:38
Speaker 1: You've mentioned Texas, he absolutely admitted clear what he is
6:43
Speaker 1: by even just the fact that he organized for the
6:45
Speaker 1: Department of Defense to be replaced the Department of War.
6:48
Speaker 1: As you mentioned, this tattoos are quite stark. The Crusader
6:51
Speaker 1: tattoo in his chest very stark. It's clear what he
6:54
Speaker 1: has in mind. Why is there not more pushback from
6:58
Speaker 1: people within the Trumpet administration to this? How is it
7:02
Speaker 1: that the entire administration seems to be captured.
7:05
Speaker 2: Well basically whether or not, a number of them are
7:10
Speaker 2: Christian Zionists ideologically like Hegseth, and by the way, Hegseeth
7:15
Speaker 2: belongs to an organization and Israel are called the Third
7:19
Speaker 2: Temple Institute. And the idea of the Third Temple Institute
7:23
Speaker 2: is to tear down the historic mosque, their alak Samsque,
7:28
Speaker 2: to tear that down, blow it up, and replace it
7:31
Speaker 2: with the Third Temple, creating a third Temple for the Jews.
7:36
Speaker 2: So that's the basic ideology now. Paula White, the Faith Advisor,
7:41
Speaker 2: also thousands of pastors of churches who use this Christian
7:50
Speaker 2: Zionist ideology form a pretty powerful lobby or base. And
7:56
Speaker 2: then within the administration, I imagine you have, you know,
8:00
Speaker 2: the pragmatic people that just want power and a job
8:04
Speaker 2: versus those who are ideological for example. And also you
8:08
Speaker 2: have the Jewish Zionist like Secretary of Commerce Lutnik, a
8:12
Speaker 2: very close old time friend of Trump's. He would be
8:16
Speaker 2: a Jewish Zionist, and he actually is aligned with the
8:20
Speaker 2: Shabbad movement Orhabbad movement, which is an extreme Zionist movement.
8:25
Speaker 2: So for either pragmatic purposes in terms of having a
8:30
Speaker 2: job or in terms of actually believing this nonsense. Trump
8:36
Speaker 2: is supported. Now, there was a very important resignation our
8:39
Speaker 2: coup today in the papers as we speak. The well
8:45
Speaker 2: known kind of a political figure who was also military,
8:49
Speaker 2: Joe Kent, who was head of our counter Terrorism Center
8:57
Speaker 2: National counter Terrorism Center, resigned today with a very strong
9:03
Speaker 2: letter condemning the Iran war and also from his standpoint
9:09
Speaker 2: as a director of the counter Terrorism Center National counter Terrior,
9:13
Speaker 2: he stated that there is no has been no threat
9:16
Speaker 2: from Iran, and therefore you know, he can't in good
9:21
Speaker 2: conscience maintain his job. So that's very interesting, Mike, that
9:25
Speaker 2: we had a very influential fellow politically resigned today and
9:31
Speaker 2: that may spark other resignation.
9:34
Speaker 1: For those of us outside the United States who don't
9:37
Speaker 1: fully understand the layers of government there.
9:40
Speaker 3: I see. Your role is that.
9:42
Speaker 2: It's a major it's a major center within our intelligence
9:46
Speaker 2: community CIA, within our intelligence community, and so it would
9:50
Speaker 2: be he would be basically at the level of a
9:53
Speaker 2: senior bureaucrat, let's put it that way, not at the
9:55
Speaker 2: cabinet level, but a senior bureaucrat in a very responsible
10:00
Speaker 2: position I counter terrorism. So it will create waves and
10:04
Speaker 2: I'm sure it has already this morning, I begun to
10:06
Speaker 2: create waves.
10:07
Speaker 1: Well, what about the military itself, because obviously, over the
10:10
Speaker 1: last couple of weeks we have heard various reports of
10:16
Speaker 1: senior military personnel really pushing this ideology onto the military
10:25
Speaker 1: personnel themselves. We heard about the number of complaints that
10:29
Speaker 1: we're being made about that. But how much support for
10:32
Speaker 1: this ideology do you think there is within the US
10:36
Speaker 1: military itself.
10:37
Speaker 2: I'm not sure what mister Hegseth has done in terms
10:40
Speaker 2: of placing his type of believers in key jobs in
10:46
Speaker 2: the Pentagon, but I do not doubt that from the
10:49
Speaker 2: day one of his tenure he has begun placing a
10:54
Speaker 2: network of his fellow Christian Zionist believers in high positions
10:58
Speaker 2: in the Pentagon. In the military itself, there are in
11:03
Speaker 2: the officer corps and even enlisted, But there are in
11:06
Speaker 2: the officer corps folks who actually believe this nonsense. So
11:11
Speaker 2: they are would belong to a church that espouses this
11:16
Speaker 2: eschatology as part of their faith, which is a heretical faith,
11:20
Speaker 2: but they don't probably know that, they probably grew up
11:23
Speaker 2: in it, etc. So you do have at the officer
11:27
Speaker 2: level Christian Zionist officers who are exhorting their troops to
11:33
Speaker 2: go to war against Muslims and et cetera. That has
11:36
Speaker 2: sparked lawsuits. I believe it's over one hundred lawsuits so
11:43
Speaker 2: far by soldiers, sailors, erman marines who object to this
11:52
Speaker 2: religious harassment, let's say, or this human rights violation of
11:57
Speaker 2: their own civil rights, human rights in terms of freedom
12:00
Speaker 2: of religion or religious belief. So already now there are
12:04
Speaker 2: over one hundred court cases or lawsuits that have been
12:09
Speaker 2: filed in behalf of military personnel who object to having
12:14
Speaker 2: their officers classify this as a crusade against Muslims and
12:20
Speaker 2: so on.
12:20
Speaker 1: What about the riddings and private sergeants, these types.
12:26
Speaker 2: You'd have to get into a sociological analysis essentially, you know, what,
12:30
Speaker 2: what is their background? Are these Southerners who may belong
12:37
Speaker 2: to Southern Baptist Convention churches? Are they you know, from
12:43
Speaker 2: other parts in Middle West or other parts of the
12:45
Speaker 2: country who may attend such churches and so on? So
12:51
Speaker 2: it's right now, I have not seen any sociologists have
12:56
Speaker 2: studies and data on the percentages of let's say, enlisted
13:01
Speaker 2: folks who are Christian Zionists. The only indications we have
13:06
Speaker 2: so far are the fact that the officer court is
13:10
Speaker 2: penetrated by them. Also, the service academies, as my understanding,
13:16
Speaker 2: do have some penetration too, So at that level, there
13:22
Speaker 2: is a penetration at the soldier level. At the you'd
13:26
Speaker 2: have to we'd have to wait for maybe some sociological
13:29
Speaker 2: studies to tell us in terms of the average enlisted
13:33
Speaker 2: man or woman whether he or she attends a church
13:37
Speaker 2: that is this type of a church, a Christian Zionist church.
13:41
Speaker 2: We have, of course many non Christian Zionists denominations and
13:47
Speaker 2: so on, but there are it's true, several million, it's
13:51
Speaker 2: not known how many. Ten million, it's claimed more fifteen
13:54
Speaker 2: million Americans who belong to these churches. And actually recently
14:01
Speaker 2: there were a thousand of these ministers over in Israel
14:06
Speaker 2: that the Israelis were having a big conference and appointed
14:10
Speaker 2: them ambassadors for Israel and spiritual ambassadors for Israel. So
14:14
Speaker 2: there are thousands of these type of preachers, and therefore,
14:21
Speaker 2: if we figure, you know, they have a reach, you're
14:26
Speaker 2: looking at maybe ten million or twenty million people in
14:29
Speaker 2: or more could be many more. Some claim fifty million,
14:32
Speaker 2: but I think that's a high number, but we are
14:35
Speaker 2: talking on the order of millions of Americans that believe
14:39
Speaker 2: this nonsense.
14:40
Speaker 3: Okay, would these people be on the right of politics?
14:45
Speaker 3: Are these the people that we might categorize as MEGA
14:48
Speaker 3: for example, Yes.
14:49
Speaker 2: That's a really good question. Generally speaking, you would place
14:53
Speaker 2: them on the right. Generally that is the Christian Zionists.
15:00
Speaker 2: There are evangelicals who are not Christian Zionists, and they
15:04
Speaker 2: could be liberal or even on the left. So what
15:07
Speaker 2: we have to do is tune in on, or focus
15:10
Speaker 2: on the Christian Zionist element among the evangelicals, and when
15:18
Speaker 2: we look at that, we can then determine sort of
15:22
Speaker 2: the most emboldened type of these people are the most
15:25
Speaker 2: indoctrinated type of these believers. And what we have now
15:31
Speaker 2: in MEGA is quite interesting. Mike, follow up your question.
15:35
Speaker 2: The Mega Make America Great Again movement, it's not a
15:40
Speaker 2: political party. It was a movement to penetrate the traditional
15:44
Speaker 2: Republican Party. So the MAGA Mega Make America Great Again
15:49
Speaker 2: movement political movement. Steve Bannon and others created it as
15:53
Speaker 2: a vehicle for Trump. This is this is not the
15:57
Speaker 2: Republican Party traditional Republican Party. This was a political movement
16:02
Speaker 2: to penetrate the party and take it over. There's resistance
16:06
Speaker 2: to that, of course, within the party, and there's increasing resistance.
16:11
Speaker 2: What happened with the Charlie Kirk assassination on the heels
16:16
Speaker 2: of the Gaza genocide by Israel. The Gaza genocide woke
16:21
Speaker 2: a lot of people up, even the Megapeople, to the
16:26
Speaker 2: horrors of the Israelis murdering men, women, children, and so on,
16:31
Speaker 2: the genocide there, which is recognized as a genocide. So
16:36
Speaker 2: that then the Charlie Kirk assassination. Kirk in his later months,
16:44
Speaker 2: last year or maybe of his life, had turned against
16:48
Speaker 2: Israel and against the genocide. And Kirk was a very
16:52
Speaker 2: important youth evangelist figure who commanded millions of college aid
17:00
Speaker 2: and younger people they are voters. So Charlie Kirk had
17:05
Speaker 2: a great influence in supporting the Trump and the Republican
17:09
Speaker 2: Party in terms of his evangelism on campuses across the country.
17:15
Speaker 2: He was solidly pro Israel. That's why his organization was
17:19
Speaker 2: backed by billionaire Jewish donors. It was really a creation
17:24
Speaker 2: of the Jewish donors, and Kirk kind of fell for that,
17:28
Speaker 2: but he wasn't. He came out of the Christian Zionist
17:31
Speaker 2: milieu religiously, so he wasn't aware of that problem, that
17:36
Speaker 2: heretical problem only in his last year or his last
17:41
Speaker 2: months of his life. So what has happened then is
17:44
Speaker 2: the Maga movement has split. It split into the MIGA
17:50
Speaker 2: that is, Make Israel Great Again Maiga, which is a
17:54
Speaker 2: Christian Zionist wing, and then the other part is the
17:59
Speaker 2: America First Group, which is anti Zionist. And top Congressman
18:05
Speaker 2: Tom Massy, Margaret Taylor Green congresswoman you know, and other
18:10
Speaker 2: party leaders in the Republican Party are in the America
18:15
Speaker 2: First Group now, which is anti Zionist. Although the Zionist
18:21
Speaker 2: MAGA people are trying to penetrate the America First faction
18:27
Speaker 2: and turn it for Israel, but they're being rejected. So
18:32
Speaker 2: what we have now, Mike, is a split in Trump's
18:34
Speaker 2: political base, a very significant split, and the America First
18:38
Speaker 2: anti Zionist people are not going back. As a matter
18:41
Speaker 2: of fact, more and more of the youth and under
18:45
Speaker 2: thirty crowd are falling away from Mega and turning into
18:49
Speaker 2: Maga or Independence and therefore turning into America First or
18:56
Speaker 2: Independence and therefore leaving the Trump political base politically. Then
19:02
Speaker 2: that fracture in Trump's political base means that this November
19:09
Speaker 2: he is not going to have a substantial portion of
19:11
Speaker 2: the old megabase. He will have the MAGA people, yes,
19:16
Speaker 2: but he's not going to have the America First and
19:19
Speaker 2: he's not going to have independence or youth. So it
19:24
Speaker 2: is calculated here that as of now, political pundits think that,
19:31
Speaker 2: and the polling data shows that Trump will probably lose
19:34
Speaker 2: the House. The Republicans will lose the House this fall
19:36
Speaker 2: in the midterm elections, and they may because of this war.
19:41
Speaker 2: Now now have an added factor here, because of this war,
19:45
Speaker 2: it is possible for the Republican party to lose the Senate.
19:48
Speaker 2: What does that mean. It is the House of Representatives
19:52
Speaker 2: under the Constitution that raises the bills of impeachment. Then
19:58
Speaker 2: once a bill of impeachment is raised in the House
20:00
Speaker 2: and passes, then it goes over to the Senate, which
20:04
Speaker 2: becomes a court. The Senate becomes a trial and a jury.
20:11
Speaker 2: And so if the House is Democrat, well logically the
20:15
Speaker 2: Democrats are going to raise bills of impeachment for whatever
20:19
Speaker 2: Epstein files or you know, there's many corruption, there's many
20:24
Speaker 2: points that the Democrats and Republicans who are disgusted with
20:28
Speaker 2: Trump can raise. Therefore, we would expect that bill of
20:35
Speaker 2: impeachment or bills of impeachment to go over to the House.
20:38
Speaker 2: There's a Senate and the Senate to try, and the Senate,
20:41
Speaker 2: if it's Democrat, to find guilty. Or even if the
20:46
Speaker 2: Senate is Republican, some Republican senators who are disgusted with
20:50
Speaker 2: Trump could switch over and support the Democrats in the
20:55
Speaker 2: vote to impeach. Republicans, for example, voted to impeach President
21:03
Speaker 2: Nixon back in the day alone. That's a long time ago,
21:06
Speaker 2: but Republicans did crossover and vote to impeach. So therefore
21:13
Speaker 2: we can conclude as of now, Trump's political base is
21:19
Speaker 2: very much in disarray and he definitely faces impeachment and
21:26
Speaker 2: the other high crimes and misdemeanors. I need to explain
21:29
Speaker 2: to your folks that this move to war that Trump
21:33
Speaker 2: ordered is unconstitutional. Under our constitution, Congress has to vote
21:40
Speaker 2: for war or against. Congress has to issue a declaration
21:44
Speaker 2: of war before the president, who is the commander in
21:46
Speaker 2: chief of the armed forces, exercises the armed forces or
21:51
Speaker 2: moves on that. Also, Congress in modern times can pass
21:57
Speaker 2: what's called an authorization to use force, and that would
22:01
Speaker 2: enable the president legally to use force. However, Congress did
22:06
Speaker 2: not do either of those two procedures, and Trump merely
22:12
Speaker 2: ordered this war, which is completely unconstitutional, which means we
22:16
Speaker 2: are in a constitutional crisis on this point alone, but
22:20
Speaker 2: on many other points as well, and that I think
22:24
Speaker 2: maybe folks outside the United States don't understand that the
22:28
Speaker 2: President of the United States has acted like a dictator
22:30
Speaker 2: here and has shredded the Constitution with respect to the
22:34
Speaker 2: war powers as we call it.
22:35
Speaker 1: As far as impeachment goes, what's the actual sanction available?
22:40
Speaker 3: He can he be removed from office?
22:42
Speaker 2: Yes, he would be removed, and then under our constitution
22:46
Speaker 2: it would be the vice president who then goes up
22:49
Speaker 2: one step to become to become the president.
22:54
Speaker 3: And would that be better?
23:00
Speaker 2: They're both the same. But what it could do is,
23:06
Speaker 2: I don't know, delay some things, or you know, people
23:08
Speaker 2: are shuffling the chairs around. Maybe maybe that would slow
23:11
Speaker 2: down the mess we're in right now. It's hard to
23:14
Speaker 2: say answer your question. My view'd be about the same,
23:20
Speaker 2: but nonetheless, having that occur would possibly slow things down
23:25
Speaker 2: and put a brake on something so hard to say.
23:29
Speaker 2: The other avenue is for the twenty fifth Amendment of
23:34
Speaker 2: our Constitution to be exercised, which would be that the
23:39
Speaker 2: Vice president calls the cabinet in and the cabinet altogether
23:44
Speaker 2: they make a decision to exercise the twenty fifth Amendment
23:48
Speaker 2: and remove the president. That is also a possibility. Usually
23:53
Speaker 2: that has only been done, and that is done with
23:57
Speaker 2: a view too hasn't been done yet, but that was
24:01
Speaker 2: done as a response to President Woodrow Wilson way back,
24:06
Speaker 2: who had severe strokes which therefore mentally incapacitated him. And
24:15
Speaker 2: actually it was Woodrow Wilson's second wife and son in
24:18
Speaker 2: law that ran the country, although the public didn't know that.
24:22
Speaker 2: That's in World War One, for example era. And so
24:27
Speaker 2: that's where we came up with the twenty fifth Amendment,
24:29
Speaker 2: to have a way to remove a sick physically sick
24:35
Speaker 2: or mentally ill, like a stroke or something along those lines, incapacitated.
24:41
Speaker 2: We can say, so there is a constitutional method to
24:44
Speaker 2: remove Trump tomorrow morning, if the cabinet moves it, and well,
24:48
Speaker 2: if the vice president moves it and the cabinet approves,
24:51
Speaker 2: Trump is out. The other point might be that if
24:55
Speaker 2: this war gets much worse, which of course it will
24:59
Speaker 2: the economic effects. Then, even prior to the midterms, Democrats
25:04
Speaker 2: could certainly at least put forward an impeachment bill in
25:10
Speaker 2: Congress as a political move, just to dramatize their displeasure
25:16
Speaker 2: with the president's policies. Although I do need to explain
25:20
Speaker 2: this to Mike Apak, America Israel Political Action Committee and
25:25
Speaker 2: other Jewish Zionist organizations have donated to about over three
25:32
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty congressmen and over eighty five senators. We
25:37
Speaker 2: have four hundred and thirty five congressional seats and one
25:40
Speaker 2: hundred Senate seats, so as you can see, most of
25:44
Speaker 2: the Congress is owned. You know, seventy five eighty five
25:47
Speaker 2: percent of Congress is owned by the Jewish lobby, the
25:50
Speaker 2: Zionist lobby. The Christian Zionists are not too many rich ones,
25:54
Speaker 2: so that's not a matter of political donation. That's a
25:57
Speaker 2: matter of voting block. But it's the big Jewish billionaire
26:01
Speaker 2: types and so on and other political action committees that
26:05
Speaker 2: put the money in for campaigning, and thus they own
26:08
Speaker 2: Congress and own the White House. So like our current
26:12
Speaker 2: political situation in the United States, it may not be
26:14
Speaker 2: that different from the United Kingdom. Which your Labor Party
26:19
Speaker 2: has a pro Zionist pro Israel group, and your Conservative
26:25
Speaker 2: Party has a owned by the Zionists, and then you've
26:29
Speaker 2: got Kurs Diharmer and his wife is Jewish and all this.
26:31
Speaker 2: So it's probably parallel, we could say, or maybe we
26:35
Speaker 2: could say that your situation in the UK is comparable
26:39
Speaker 2: to our situation here where our parliaments, our Congress are
26:43
Speaker 2: owned by Jewish interests, Zionist interests, And let me make
26:47
Speaker 2: a point there, I would say, I don't have all
26:50
Speaker 2: the numbers. I'm not sure it's ever been done, but
26:52
Speaker 2: maybe ninety percent of American Jews or Zionists, maybe ten
26:58
Speaker 2: percent or not. Certainly I have some Jewish friends who
27:00
Speaker 2: are definitely anti Zionist and very active against Zionism. So
27:07
Speaker 2: you know, not all Americans jewsers Zionists. Maybe ninety percent.
27:11
Speaker 2: I don't know what the sociological or data, public opinion
27:14
Speaker 2: data is that on.
27:15
Speaker 3: The war itself.
27:16
Speaker 1: Then, is the Christian Zionist influence strong enough that they
27:21
Speaker 1: will pursue this to the bitter end or will there
27:26
Speaker 1: be some kind of effort to get out of the
27:29
Speaker 1: situation that they're in at the moment?
27:30
Speaker 2: Do you think that's a really interesting question, Mike. Let
27:33
Speaker 2: me answer that in a couple of ways. Number One,
27:36
Speaker 2: the President made the decision to go to war on
27:38
Speaker 2: his own, influenced by his son in law, Jewish Jared Krishner,
27:42
Speaker 2: and his business buddy Steve Whitkoff, and a small circle
27:47
Speaker 2: of pro Israel. Advisor Susie Wiles. The chief of staff
27:50
Speaker 2: was bbnet In Niao's campaign advisor. So the chief of
27:53
Speaker 2: staff the most important person in the White House staff,
27:58
Speaker 2: the most important advisor to Trump. Suzy Wilds that was
28:02
Speaker 2: a campaign advisor for bib Ntnehu. So essentially what we
28:07
Speaker 2: have and Lutnik, big money man, is cabinet secretary and
28:13
Speaker 2: so on. So what we have is a very strong
28:17
Speaker 2: Jewish Zionist and Christian Zionist influence over the White House.
28:22
Speaker 2: Now let me preface that by saying that the decision
28:26
Speaker 2: to go to war, Trump was influenced by this small circle.
28:30
Speaker 2: And Trump has always been Prosionist, he was in his
28:32
Speaker 2: first first term. I mean Trump is a Prosionist president.
28:36
Speaker 2: He grew up in New York. I mean he's part
28:38
Speaker 2: of the whole New York Jewish thing, you know, with
28:40
Speaker 2: the businessman and all of that. So he was advised
28:46
Speaker 2: by our Joint chiefs of Staff, top military, and by
28:51
Speaker 2: our Director of National Intelligence, who presides over eighteen separate
28:57
Speaker 2: or seventeen separate intelligence services, Tulsea Gabbett, the first one
29:02
Speaker 2: of General Kme. They advised him against going to war,
29:08
Speaker 2: saying that, look, we can't win this basically, and that
29:11
Speaker 2: came out in the press. That has been reported in
29:13
Speaker 2: the New York Times and all the major media. They
29:15
Speaker 2: reported that. So Trump, despite that advice from the Joint
29:21
Speaker 2: chiefs of Staff, his military, our military, and D and I,
29:28
Speaker 2: our national intelligence organizations, went to war anyways because of
29:34
Speaker 2: his son in law and his buddy Witkoff and the
29:37
Speaker 2: Jewish lobby, backed up by the Christian Lobbi's vote, Christian
29:42
Speaker 2: Zionist lobbies vote. Now here's another point that people aren't
29:46
Speaker 2: making Mike. Normally, we have what we call our National
29:50
Speaker 2: Security Council advising the president, and that was set up
29:55
Speaker 2: after World War Two, and the National Security Advisor has
30:00
Speaker 2: a staff anywhere from well nowadays it's bloated. It's up
30:04
Speaker 2: there three four hundred, but has a few hundred staff members.
30:08
Speaker 2: And the National Security Council's job is to coordinate policy
30:14
Speaker 2: on an interagency basis. That is to say, the National
30:18
Speaker 2: Security Advisor would check with all these different components of
30:21
Speaker 2: our government on a policy issue or a policy review,
30:25
Speaker 2: like what do we do about China, or what do
30:27
Speaker 2: we do about Iran? Or is it a good idea
30:29
Speaker 2: to go to war with Iran? Or something like that,
30:32
Speaker 2: and then the National Security Advisor would task that out
30:35
Speaker 2: to the various agencies for each agency to weigh in on,
30:44
Speaker 2: and an interagency process. For example, if the President says, well,
30:48
Speaker 2: we need a policy review on China, fine, yes, sir,
30:51
Speaker 2: we'll do that, and nine months later or ten months later,
30:54
Speaker 2: after it's been reviewed and vetted throughout the entire apparatus
30:58
Speaker 2: of our government that's so responsible for those matters, it
31:02
Speaker 2: would be reported back to the President. My understanding is
31:06
Speaker 2: the President took this now also today, Note that Secretary
31:10
Speaker 2: of State Rubio is dual had it. He is the
31:13
Speaker 2: Secretary of State, but he's also the National Security Advisor.
31:16
Speaker 2: We only had one another like that, and that was
31:17
Speaker 2: kissing her. But he was talented, let's say, I mean,
31:23
Speaker 2: whereas Ruby has just a joke. And so what I
31:28
Speaker 2: think I think no one is talking about is that
31:31
Speaker 2: Trump made this huge decision not only unconstitutionally, but also
31:38
Speaker 2: outside the normal processes of our government, where our military,
31:43
Speaker 2: our intelligence, our diplomats, and our Commerce department. Obviously Commerce
31:48
Speaker 2: Department would have said, God, no, don't go to war.
31:50
Speaker 2: It'll close the helmet straight up our moves, you know.
31:53
Speaker 2: So I think Trump just abandoned our government and just
31:59
Speaker 2: made this decision like he was some dictator from Rome,
32:03
Speaker 2: you know, like Nero or one of those characters back
32:07
Speaker 2: in the old Roman days. So or like that rich
32:11
Speaker 2: guy Crassus who decided to make a war on the
32:15
Speaker 2: Persians and and got beaten to a pulp. So that's
32:21
Speaker 2: how the decision was made, Mike, and the Christian Zionist
32:25
Speaker 2: aspect would be in the voter base, and that voter
32:29
Speaker 2: base would then be pressuring congressional members right like sent
32:35
Speaker 2: in House. So that's how the Christian Zionist influence would
32:40
Speaker 2: come in in terms of the pressure on Congress. And
32:44
Speaker 2: then within the White House you'd have the face advisor
32:47
Speaker 2: Paula White Pete Haig says, the cabinet, Lutwick Cabinet, you'd
32:52
Speaker 2: have that type of influence bearing in on the president
32:55
Speaker 2: in the White House.
32:56
Speaker 3: I was watching.
32:57
Speaker 1: I hudn't seen it before, but I was watching the
33:01
Speaker 1: movie about Muhammad Ali. Just called Ali recently, and of course,
33:05
Speaker 1: if we remember, he stood against the draft during the
33:10
Speaker 1: Vietnam War, and so I was just interested in getting
33:13
Speaker 1: your thoughts on because we've heard that there is these
33:18
Speaker 1: moves to reinstate the draft in the United States at
33:21
Speaker 1: the moment. What do you think is going to be
33:23
Speaker 1: the response from people to that and will we see
33:27
Speaker 1: people taking that kind of stand against it.
33:31
Speaker 2: Well, yes, Muhammad Ali, that was very dramatic and he
33:34
Speaker 2: was a very sincere, sincere person and gave a good
33:38
Speaker 2: example up back then. Too many youth, white and black,
33:45
Speaker 2: many Americans. So I think in answer to your question, sure,
33:49
Speaker 2: there's going to be a pushback. Already, it has been
33:53
Speaker 2: announced to the effect that the Selective Service system, the
33:59
Speaker 2: draft system, is being revamped and speeded up, et cetera.
34:03
Speaker 2: So I haven't seen any indications yet of use movements
34:10
Speaker 2: against the draft like we had back in the sixties
34:14
Speaker 2: late sixties of Vietnam. Heir, let's say, but my guess
34:19
Speaker 2: is as that reality starts to permeate through the college
34:25
Speaker 2: campuses and high schools, it will be a wake up
34:29
Speaker 2: call to young people who have not maybe been engaged
34:35
Speaker 2: or following politics, you know, kind of a political people
34:38
Speaker 2: who have not followed politics. I think it could be
34:42
Speaker 2: a catalyst for developing an overall anti war movement. We
34:51
Speaker 2: had before the Iraq War, we had worldwide, you know,
34:56
Speaker 2: demonstrations against the Iraq War. This war we have, we have,
35:00
Speaker 2: we've had some. But I think this draft situation, Mike,
35:04
Speaker 2: definitely will cause young people to reflect and think about
35:10
Speaker 2: their country and where it's headed. And that's positive, and
35:16
Speaker 2: probably it will inspire leaders among youth to step forward
35:23
Speaker 2: and hopefully, uh spark a anti war movement. You know,
35:29
Speaker 2: in every country there's the pro war party in the
35:32
Speaker 2: anti war party, you know, so hopefully the young people
35:38
Speaker 2: can succeed where the last generation has not in this war.
35:44
Speaker 2: Although the anti war movement in the United States definitely,
35:48
Speaker 2: in my view when I was involved as a college student,
35:53
Speaker 2: the anti war movement in the United States Vietnam did
35:57
Speaker 2: eventually end the Vietnam War. I mean, it did eventually
36:00
Speaker 2: forced forward, it did force us to end the Vietnam War.
36:07
Speaker 2: I just put out a column today basically economics can
36:13
Speaker 2: have an effect here. That is to say, the worst
36:19
Speaker 2: the American economy gets and the worst the world economy
36:23
Speaker 2: gets as a result of this war, that economic disaster
36:30
Speaker 2: pressure consequences around the world and at home can bring
36:38
Speaker 2: a political pressure on the White House on Trump to
36:42
Speaker 2: stop this mess. And people in Congress, even if they're
36:47
Speaker 2: pro Israel, they can, you know, somehow make some song
36:52
Speaker 2: and dance that Geus isn't good for our economy, maybe
36:55
Speaker 2: we better stop, et cetera. So on the other hand,
36:59
Speaker 2: the final who are pro Israel, three quarters of their Congress,
37:03
Speaker 2: the fanatics who are pro Israel, still exercise, you know,
37:08
Speaker 2: a major impact. So I think might answer your questions,
37:11
Speaker 2: how big is the economic pain going to get here
37:14
Speaker 2: in the United States? And before some pause or ending
37:22
Speaker 2: to this catastrophe, you know, when will that take place?
37:25
Speaker 2: A couple of weeks, a couple of months. You know,
37:29
Speaker 2: it's really hard to say, but if you look at
37:32
Speaker 2: for example, yes, just this week, the United Nations issued
37:38
Speaker 2: a report in its Food Food Program or whatever World
37:42
Speaker 2: Food program, and what they're suggesting is that the lack
37:46
Speaker 2: of these various chemical components coming out of the Gulf
37:51
Speaker 2: urea different kinds of chemicals that come out of the
37:55
Speaker 2: golf which go into making fertilizer, nitrogen and things like that.
38:02
Speaker 2: Those components make up a large proportion twenty thirty percent
38:09
Speaker 2: of the fertilizers in the world, a world market. And
38:14
Speaker 2: so if this is curtailed, we're now in the Northern
38:19
Speaker 2: Hemisphere planting season, and therefore if the fertilizer supply is curtailed,
38:27
Speaker 2: then there will be less food production six months or
38:30
Speaker 2: whatever from now when the plants grow, and because of that,
38:35
Speaker 2: there could be not just hardship or malnutrition, but potentially
38:42
Speaker 2: even starvation. Actually, so this is another factor MIC that
38:50
Speaker 2: can go into pressuring economic pressure on the White House
38:54
Speaker 2: to stop this catastrophe and bring it.
38:58
Speaker 1: That's a really important point because we're already seeing you know,
39:01
Speaker 1: we're seeing the obviously the increases in the price of oil,
39:05
Speaker 1: and that has an impact because of the way that
39:08
Speaker 1: we are producing all kinds of energy at the moment.
39:11
Speaker 3: That impacts everything.
39:12
Speaker 1: But also the rise in the price of fertilizer, which
39:16
Speaker 1: has already happened, never mind what might happen as as
39:19
Speaker 1: the shortages in these raw materials as you're talking about
39:23
Speaker 1: start to feed in. We're already seeing price rises and
39:27
Speaker 1: fertilizer that of course, is going to impact food prices.
39:30
Speaker 1: That's going to be hitting the poorest people first. But
39:33
Speaker 1: in the UK here we're already hearing talk in the
39:36
Speaker 1: mainstream press about you know, rationing of patrol for cars,
39:42
Speaker 1: of limiting speeds on motorways and so on to try
39:46
Speaker 1: to make force people to drive more efficiently and so on.
39:50
Speaker 1: So this this narrative is already starting to build.
39:53
Speaker 3: And so.
39:55
Speaker 1: Since this is mainly Trump's war, we've got to look
40:00
Speaker 1: to the effect in the United States. I supposed to
40:03
Speaker 1: see whether there can be enough of an opposition to
40:05
Speaker 1: get him to stop. But I wonder what sort of
40:08
Speaker 1: demographic the Christian Zionist lobby or the Jewish is really
40:13
Speaker 1: Zionist lobby is, and at what stage they are going
40:18
Speaker 1: to be most affected by these economic changes.
40:24
Speaker 2: The Jewish lobby, Zionist lobby really is what we call
40:28
Speaker 2: big donors. You know, these billionaire type chures on Wall
40:32
Speaker 2: Street or Silicon Valley or whatever. They're not going They're
40:38
Speaker 2: probably gonna make money. They'll sell short right, So so
40:42
Speaker 2: I think the like like some people say, you know,
40:45
Speaker 2: wars are harvests of of these kind of people. So
40:50
Speaker 2: I don't think it's going to affect the zion as much. However,
40:53
Speaker 2: public Ire this is an important point, Mike, public Ire
40:57
Speaker 2: since Guyza and Charlie Kirk murder, people like Tucker Carlson
41:02
Speaker 2: and Candice Owens who are personalities here in the United
41:06
Speaker 2: States and others are drawing attention to our Jewish problem,
41:10
Speaker 2: what we can call it that that is to say,
41:13
Speaker 2: our Zionist problem. And I think more and more Americans,
41:16
Speaker 2: millions are starting to realize we have a Zionist problem.
41:20
Speaker 2: Maybe the average American didn't think about that in the past,
41:24
Speaker 2: just kind of wasn't even aware of it, but now
41:26
Speaker 2: I think millions of Americans and this is particularly true
41:31
Speaker 2: the polls show. Polling data shows that the under thirty crowd,
41:37
Speaker 2: kids in their twenties, even late teens, in high school,
41:41
Speaker 2: young people are very very cognizant of the Zionist issue now.
41:48
Speaker 2: And that's to say, the Jewish issue, the Zionist issue,
41:52
Speaker 2: and so on, and that is showing up in polls
41:57
Speaker 2: and lack of support for Israel, collapse of support for
42:02
Speaker 2: Israel even among evangelicals. By the way, Mike, that's something
42:06
Speaker 2: we need to keep an eye on, is younger evangelicals
42:10
Speaker 2: now the sixty five crowd and under thirty evangelicals who
42:16
Speaker 2: might have were pro Israel before now are anti. So
42:22
Speaker 2: to answer your question, there is a collapse in the
42:25
Speaker 2: younger population here in the United States. I'm an old guy,
42:30
Speaker 2: but I do talk to him, my friend's kids and
42:33
Speaker 2: all that sort of stuff. And there's definitely in students
42:37
Speaker 2: and all there's definitely a growing awareness from the college
42:41
Speaker 2: level to the high school level, et cetera, of the problem. Actually,
42:44
Speaker 2: the Jewish community contributes to our country right now. I
42:48
Speaker 2: mean it's there. Is there ninety percent prosion is population,
42:54
Speaker 2: which is only a couple percent of our overall three
42:57
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty million people. So here, Mike, you have
42:59
Speaker 2: this spectacle of a country of three hundred and fifty
43:02
Speaker 2: million people being let around the nose by under two million,
43:07
Speaker 2: well under two percent, under two point five percent of
43:10
Speaker 2: the population, under seven million people. So that is starting
43:15
Speaker 2: to become apparent to people. The older generation may either
43:20
Speaker 2: not notice or not care, but the younger generation really
43:24
Speaker 2: cares because it's a question of do they have a job,
43:27
Speaker 2: can they afford things, what's affordable, what's not. They can't
43:29
Speaker 2: buy a house, they can't get a good job. Why, Well,
43:32
Speaker 2: it's because we're in a war for Israel. We're fighting
43:35
Speaker 2: for Israel. Oh why are we fighting for Israel? Oh
43:37
Speaker 2: you know, well, damn it, I don't have a job.
43:40
Speaker 2: So so I think to answer your question, there's a
43:43
Speaker 2: growing awareness here of the Zionist problem, and there is
43:49
Speaker 2: a it is demonstrable in the polling data. So I'm
43:52
Speaker 2: not making things up or being anti Semitic or anything
43:55
Speaker 2: along those lines. It's just in the polling data that's
43:59
Speaker 2: available to the public. It's in the in the press.
44:02
Speaker 2: So I would say there is a declining support for Israel.
44:07
Speaker 2: But that pressure, you know, it may not be seen
44:16
Speaker 2: physically until we get to the elections this fall. And
44:19
Speaker 2: so if the mid terms show that a number of
44:23
Speaker 2: Christian Zionists oriented or Jewish candidates fail or incumbents fail,
44:32
Speaker 2: that can show us the practical effect of this change
44:35
Speaker 2: in mood, of this change in opinion in the United States.
44:39
Speaker 2: So right now, Mike, there's definitely a change of opinion.
44:42
Speaker 2: There's definitely a reaction against Christian Zionism among youth and
44:47
Speaker 2: others Catholics now too.
44:50
Speaker 1: So we sorry, Cliff, do you think that this has
44:55
Speaker 1: the potential to actually put the Jewish community in physical
45:01
Speaker 1: danger in the United States as this stuff starts to bite,
45:05
Speaker 1: and you know, Zionism is identified as being effectively the
45:11
Speaker 1: source of the problem.
45:14
Speaker 2: Well, it could lead to some tragedies, that's true, maybe
45:21
Speaker 2: some incidents, scattered incidents, who knows. But it could also
45:27
Speaker 2: lead to a real mood change like in Europe in
45:29
Speaker 2: the nineteen thirties. You know, doesn't have to be necessarily
45:32
Speaker 2: a Nazi, but fascist or whatever. You know. So I
45:37
Speaker 2: would say that's a difficult question. I would say that, yes,
45:44
Speaker 2: there can be a mood swing and that would redound
45:50
Speaker 2: against the Zionist portion of the Jewish community, But unfortunately,
45:56
Speaker 2: non Zionist Jewish people would get caught up in that
45:59
Speaker 2: as as well, which would be a tragedy too. So
46:03
Speaker 2: an answer to your question, yes, that's possible. It is
46:06
Speaker 2: possible that we could have kind of a nineteen thirties
46:10
Speaker 2: type reaction. And to be frank, this is not in
46:15
Speaker 2: the newspapers, it's not in the polling data, but it's
46:18
Speaker 2: kind of word of mouth or whatever. But the young
46:22
Speaker 2: people in the United States, the college and even high
46:25
Speaker 2: school are not only turning anti Zionists, but are raising
46:32
Speaker 2: some hard questions about their fellow Jewish citizens. Let's say,
46:36
Speaker 2: let's put it that way.
46:38
Speaker 1: In the UK, we've got to say that designist lobby
46:41
Speaker 1: has done a successful job of demonizing the Islamic community.
46:47
Speaker 1: And to the degree that's you know, a large proportion
46:50
Speaker 1: of the population here is so absolutely anti Islamic that
46:56
Speaker 1: there's nothing can convince them otherwise. What's what's the situation
47:01
Speaker 1: in the United States, how's the has the Zionist lobby
47:06
Speaker 1: succeeded in creating that kind of feeling there as well?
47:10
Speaker 2: Well? Unfortunately, the Jewish Zionists and the Christian Zionists have
47:16
Speaker 2: been flogging that line anti Muslim line for a couple
47:21
Speaker 2: of decades now, So that is particularly since nine to eleven,
47:27
Speaker 2: for example, that was a big shock in our country.
47:31
Speaker 2: That was quite a shock, although a lot of young
47:33
Speaker 2: people today weren't even born then, but nonetheless the legacy
47:37
Speaker 2: there so, so yes, an answer to your question, Yes,
47:40
Speaker 2: the Zionis lobby, Jewish and Christian for decades have been
47:45
Speaker 2: spreading this poisonous anti Islamic line. And I don't believe
47:52
Speaker 2: the average American really falls for that, but certainly the
47:59
Speaker 2: certainly it is very influential in we could say Christian
48:07
Speaker 2: or Gentile circles. People are frightened, you know, by terrorism
48:11
Speaker 2: in nine to eleven and all of that, I would
48:14
Speaker 2: just point out in my book that I wrote Dark Crusade,
48:17
Speaker 2: I took pains to write a chapter about our historic
48:21
Speaker 2: American historic relationship with the Muslim world. And you know,
48:26
Speaker 2: the first country to recognize our flag during our independence
48:31
Speaker 2: era seventeen seventy seven was a Morocco The Sheikh or
48:38
Speaker 2: the ruler of Morocco, a Muslim descended supposedly of Muhammad.
48:44
Speaker 2: That ruler recognized our flag in his harbor in seventeen
48:48
Speaker 2: seventy seven. That was the first recognition of the American flag.
48:51
Speaker 2: And then we had in the seventeen eighties we developed
48:56
Speaker 2: relations with Tunisia and other of the literal Mediterranean Muslim countries.
49:06
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, our first clause in our
49:10
Speaker 2: Treaty of Friendship with Tunisia, which was seventeen eighties, seventy
49:14
Speaker 2: eighty sixth I think it was, is the very first
49:16
Speaker 2: phrase is God is Infinite, signed by the Christian side,
49:21
Speaker 2: signed by the Muslim side. So that's even before we
49:25
Speaker 2: were a republic. That's during our pre republic era seventeen eighties.
49:31
Speaker 2: So here we have the United States officially, you know,
49:38
Speaker 2: creating a treaty a relationship with Tunisia on an equal
49:41
Speaker 2: basis of Christians and Muslims. And we had numerous missionary
49:50
Speaker 2: activities in the Middle East in the nineteenth century. They
49:55
Speaker 2: were not trying to convert Muslims to Christianity. No, they
49:59
Speaker 2: were trying to had medical clinics, they had universities. We
50:05
Speaker 2: created the American University and Beirut that was Presbyterian people
50:11
Speaker 2: created that in the eighteen fifties, I think it was
50:16
Speaker 2: it was called the Syrian National University, but they were
50:19
Speaker 2: Presbyterian missionaries. There were other missionaries out there, Anglican and others,
50:27
Speaker 2: creating schools like for example, in Cairo, we created an
50:31
Speaker 2: American University in Cairo, and also in Turkey Robert College,
50:37
Speaker 2: which was a high school, was created by missionaries in
50:41
Speaker 2: the nineteenth century early twentieth century. So our American tradition
50:48
Speaker 2: was one of what we could call constructive engagement with
50:53
Speaker 2: the Muslim world. And we even had I believe there
50:56
Speaker 2: were a few, not too many, but even in our
50:59
Speaker 2: colonial times. I'm here, I believe in Boston or maybe Philadelphia,
51:04
Speaker 2: there may have been a few Muslim merchants who were
51:09
Speaker 2: American citizens who became American citizens. So I believe even
51:14
Speaker 2: from an early period there were some Muslim businessmen and
51:21
Speaker 2: citizens of the United States, and check on that, but
51:25
Speaker 2: I think there were a few. So essentially, our foreign
51:28
Speaker 2: relations with the Muslim world was just fine up until
51:31
Speaker 2: nineteen forty eight, and then Truman creates you know, that
51:37
Speaker 2: recognizes Israel. So we Americans were fine. We had many immigrants,
51:46
Speaker 2: a lot of immigrants from Lebanon and Christian but some
51:51
Speaker 2: Muslim also. Today we have Muslim communities in the United States.
51:58
Speaker 2: Dearborn Michigan is one there, Shiah Muslims there too. So
52:04
Speaker 2: I guess like in England, we have different religions here
52:08
Speaker 2: Buddhists and you know, we have different religions. So this
52:12
Speaker 2: Christian Zionist mimicking the Jewish Zionist, bringing this hateful, hateful
52:19
Speaker 2: attitude is I'll tell you a point on that. It's
52:25
Speaker 2: gotten to the point where that hateful attitude is causing
52:30
Speaker 2: our First Amendment freedom of speech rights to be curtailed.
52:35
Speaker 3: I e.
52:36
Speaker 2: You can't criticize Israel because that's supposedly anti Semitic. You know,
52:41
Speaker 2: you can't talk about the genocide and Gaza. That's anti
52:47
Speaker 2: Semitic right by their definition. So that's impairing our own
52:53
Speaker 2: constitution freedom of speech and writing as well, writing books
53:01
Speaker 2: or journalists, et cetera. So that's how dangerous these people
53:10
Speaker 2: are to our constitutional order here. And frankly, coming back
53:15
Speaker 2: to an earlier question, you asked that that is also
53:18
Speaker 2: getting people angry, and it's like, well, why should these
53:21
Speaker 2: Jews be telling me I can't say something about Gaza?
53:23
Speaker 2: You know what's going on here? You know who's this
53:27
Speaker 2: rich billionaire Jew in New York who organized with four
53:31
Speaker 2: or five other guys Actman and these other guys to
53:33
Speaker 2: put students at Columbia University in jail or to expel
53:38
Speaker 2: students from universities or teachers too. So that happened a
53:43
Speaker 2: year or so ago, a couple of years ago. So
53:46
Speaker 2: what we've had is a systematic effort on the part
53:49
Speaker 2: of the organized Jewish Zionist community to destroy our constitutional
53:56
Speaker 2: right to free speech. And answer your question on the attitude,
54:03
Speaker 2: I think people are going to get rather angry about that,
54:05
Speaker 2: and hearts will harden. I think in our country hearts
54:10
Speaker 2: hearts will harden.
54:11
Speaker 1: Yes, so we're almost out of time, but just before
54:16
Speaker 1: we finish. Just to my feeling from this conversation is
54:22
Speaker 1: that it's going to be very difficult for Trump to
54:24
Speaker 1: withdraw from what he's got himself into in Iran, but
54:30
Speaker 1: that even if he does, there's still going to be
54:33
Speaker 1: a massively israelly Zionist and Christian Zionist influence within the
54:38
Speaker 1: regime that the administration, whatever you want.
54:41
Speaker 3: To call it.
54:44
Speaker 1: So how does that issue get resolved? When Trump was
54:47
Speaker 1: being elected for his first term, he promised he was
54:50
Speaker 1: going to drain the swamp and deal with the corruption
54:53
Speaker 1: and so on. But how does this how does this
54:57
Speaker 1: take over of the US government get resolved?
55:02
Speaker 2: Well, as you could note, basically, whatever Trump has said
55:07
Speaker 2: is all lies, and what his supporters and the mega
55:11
Speaker 2: leaders have said is all lies. There was a deception,
55:14
Speaker 2: they said one thing to get elected, and now we're
55:17
Speaker 2: at war, right, So that's got a lot of people
55:21
Speaker 2: rather angry. And I would say, to use a political
55:25
Speaker 2: science type term, we're going to have very volatile politics.
55:30
Speaker 2: And right now you don't see demonstrations on the streets
55:34
Speaker 2: or anything yet, but I think we're going to have
55:37
Speaker 2: a lot of political volatility I do not see any
55:42
Speaker 2: reduction of the interest influence of the Zionist lobby, Jewish
55:47
Speaker 2: or Christian. I don't see any reduction significant reduction in
55:51
Speaker 2: that influence in the before the midterms or before twenty
55:55
Speaker 2: twenty eight, and maybe by twenty twenty eight presidential elections.
56:00
Speaker 2: Maybe by twenty twenty eight the public will be angry
56:03
Speaker 2: enough to vote against anybody taking money from the Jewish
56:09
Speaker 2: lobby and so on. But again, I share your concerns, Mike,
56:13
Speaker 2: that this might not be very imminent, and therefore our
56:19
Speaker 2: country in the United States here is going to be
56:22
Speaker 2: under very strong Zionist influence for the foreseeable future, and
56:29
Speaker 2: to extricate ourselves from the grip of these demonic forces,
56:35
Speaker 2: Zionist forces, is going to be very difficult. But as
56:40
Speaker 2: I said, the younger people are aware of it. I'm
56:44
Speaker 2: an old boomer fading out, but the younger generation is aware,
56:49
Speaker 2: very aware of the problem. And so that's my hope
56:53
Speaker 2: that eventually the younger generation will be able to do
56:57
Speaker 2: something about our problem and extricate ourselves from this satanic implant.
57:05
Speaker 1: Yes, and just mentioned that the dian'sa and jose Viga
57:08
Speaker 1: are doing their usual thing Diane's now running for president,
57:14
Speaker 1: Jose again having a go at Congress. But the point
57:19
Speaker 1: here is that they seem to be doing a very
57:22
Speaker 1: good job at rallying the various independent candidates around the country,
57:28
Speaker 1: and maybe although they're not attempting to form any kind
57:31
Speaker 1: of political party, they're certainly collaborating with other independents around
57:37
Speaker 1: the country. Do you think there is actually hope that
57:41
Speaker 1: the people that traditionally, of course, have had no chance
57:44
Speaker 1: whatsoever in a US election because they haven't had access
57:47
Speaker 1: to the type of money that we're talking about in
57:50
Speaker 1: this program. Do you think there's a possibility that this
57:54
Speaker 1: time around enough has happened that people will start looking
57:59
Speaker 1: beyond the traditional parties.
58:02
Speaker 2: Yes, I think. I think Diane and Jose have done
58:05
Speaker 2: a great job. And I think you can see even
58:10
Speaker 2: within the organized Democratic Party across the country there are
58:17
Speaker 2: candidates who are anti Zionists, even they're with the regular
58:25
Speaker 2: Democratic Party. So I think you'll start to see not
58:31
Speaker 2: only in the many independents, of course, who are now
58:35
Speaker 2: stepping forward as anti Zionist candidates. You know that's not
58:41
Speaker 2: their only thing, but so and people are advertising that
58:48
Speaker 2: they don't accept money from Apak or the Jewish lobby.
58:51
Speaker 2: So but they're they're candidates, so they're specifically stating that
58:55
Speaker 2: to their potential voters that they don't accept money from
58:58
Speaker 2: a pac and so on. So I think, Mike, you're right,
59:02
Speaker 2: there is a slow but nationwide surfacing of candidates who
59:09
Speaker 2: are willing to speak honestly about our national problems and
59:14
Speaker 2: foreign policy problems. So I think slowly, I think we'll
59:19
Speaker 2: see more and more candidates step forward. And Tom Massey
59:24
Speaker 2: and Margaret Taylor Green and others in the Republican Party
59:27
Speaker 2: here and there also, So I would say you've got
59:33
Speaker 2: not only the independents like Diane and Jose, but also
59:37
Speaker 2: you have a few in each party who are becoming
59:43
Speaker 2: more independent of the party line. And I think the
59:48
Speaker 2: reign of some of these old boomer type Schumer in
59:51
Speaker 2: the Senate, etc. Or folks in the House, I think
59:55
Speaker 2: there's a whole new, younger generation coming up. And I
1:00:01
Speaker 2: must say also in the Independent or even in the
1:00:03
Speaker 2: Democratic Party candidates some of them are Muslim, by the way,
1:00:08
Speaker 2: so it's not just secular gentiles or whatever are stepping forward,
1:00:18
Speaker 2: but also Christians who are anti Zionists are stepping forward,
1:00:23
Speaker 2: and Muslim Americans are seeking to get involved in politics,
1:00:28
Speaker 2: which is of course healthy, and so I think we'll
1:00:32
Speaker 2: see some changes, Mike, but I think it's going to
1:00:34
Speaker 2: be maybe a little slower than faster, and maybe by
1:00:38
Speaker 2: twenty twenty eight is maybe when we'll really see something.
1:00:42
Speaker 2: But as this war is going to get worse, the
1:00:45
Speaker 2: economic effects of the war are going to get worse
1:00:47
Speaker 2: and are belong lasting. It's going to take us a
1:00:49
Speaker 2: long Even if the war stopped tomorrow, it's going to
1:00:52
Speaker 2: take us a long time to dig out from the
1:00:55
Speaker 2: already horrible economic effects of this war. I mean, we're
1:00:58
Speaker 2: talking a long time, and it's change the world. So
1:01:01
Speaker 2: therefore i'd say, you know, by twenty twenty eight we'll
1:01:05
Speaker 2: see maybe a stronger reaction, but by twenty by by
1:01:12
Speaker 2: the midterms this year, we may get some indications, hopeful
1:01:17
Speaker 2: indications of some resistance to this globalist zionist network of
1:01:26
Speaker 2: the billionaires. And what do your Epstein class, all those
1:01:30
Speaker 2: people in the Epstein class.
1:01:33
Speaker 1: Okay, well, look, Cliff, thank you very much for joining
1:01:35
Speaker 1: me today. That's been a hugely interesting conversation. How do
1:01:39
Speaker 1: people see your work? Darker said, I believe has had
1:01:43
Speaker 1: an update since the last time we were speaking.
1:01:46
Speaker 2: Yes, well, I'm going to have a new edition, a
1:01:49
Speaker 2: paperback edition of my book on Dark Crusade that's on
1:01:53
Speaker 2: Amazon and for the It's my second book on the topic.
1:01:58
Speaker 2: My first book, Mike, was written in two thousand and nine,
1:02:03
Speaker 2: and it was called Dark Crusade, Christian Zionism and American
1:02:07
Speaker 2: Foreign Policy, so I warned back in two thousand and nine.
1:02:10
Speaker 2: My last chapter, chapter eleven, was on the coming war
1:02:13
Speaker 2: with Iran. So I wrote that in two thousand and nine.
1:02:18
Speaker 2: So if you're in England, that was published by ib
1:02:23
Speaker 2: trus of London in two thousand and nine, and you
1:02:27
Speaker 2: get an old copy of that book, probably at a
1:02:29
Speaker 2: good discount. It's essentially similar to my new book, which
1:02:34
Speaker 2: is a Dark Crusade, the Israel Lobby and Christian Zionism
1:02:38
Speaker 2: that was published in twenty twenty four. It's available on
1:02:43
Speaker 2: Amazon and so forth. And then our new paperback edition,
1:02:48
Speaker 2: which is going to be revised considering this war. The
1:02:51
Speaker 2: new paperback edition of Dark Crusade will be available, I
1:02:56
Speaker 2: believe in May. I believe we're going to publish it
1:03:00
Speaker 2: in May, so you can look for it there, as
1:03:03
Speaker 2: I said, And on Amazon, there's the two book covers.
1:03:06
Speaker 2: My old book from London has a Zionist star of
1:03:11
Speaker 2: David all over the cover and things along those lines.
1:03:14
Speaker 2: And the new edition on Amazon that would have a
1:03:18
Speaker 2: photograph of a woman in Gaza walking amidst the ruins
1:03:22
Speaker 2: of Gaza, and that would be the cover of the
1:03:25
Speaker 2: newer book. So you can identify the books books that way,
1:03:29
Speaker 2: and I hope people will enjoy reading the book and
1:03:33
Speaker 2: will be informed about the threat from Zionism, both Jewish
1:03:40
Speaker 2: and Christian.
1:03:41
Speaker 3: Cliff Krakoff thank you very much for joining me today.
1:03:44
Speaker 2: Thanks Mike, I look forward to being with you again
1:03:49
Speaker 2: and being able to speak with folks in the audience.
1:03:52
Speaker 2: Thank you very much for the invitation.