Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / KARMELO ANTHONY NEW ATTORNEYS FILE FOR NEW TRIAL

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KARMELO ANTHONY NEW ATTORNEYS FILE FOR NEW TRIAL · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: In the Last Days, convicted killer Carmelo Anthony gets a
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: brand new fleet of defense attorneys. This after his conviction
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: in the brutal track meet stab death of teen star
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  Speaker 2: athlete Austin Metcalf. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: I want to thank you for being with us.
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  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: In the Last Days, Carmelo Anthony gets a whole fleet
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  Speaker 2: of defense attorneys added to his team after his conviction
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: and the brutal stab death of teen athlete Austin Metcalf.
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  Speaker 2: Civil rights and criminal defense attorneys are joining his legal
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: team pro bono without pay. After the conviction and the
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: sentence for stabbing Austin Metcalf dead.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: Attorneys for Carmelo Anthony say the convicted murderer deserves a
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  Speaker 3: new trial. His constitutional rights were violated. Among the issue's
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  Speaker 3: attorney's site, the original trial was effectively closed to the public.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Jury instructions were misleading regarding self defense. Judge John Roach
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  Speaker 3: publicly defended the verdict to reporters, and prosecutors did not
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  Speaker 3: honor an off the record evidentiary agreement. The off the
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: record deal prevented, They say, the team from testifying in
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  Speaker 3: his own defense, but.
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  Speaker 2: Can even renowned defense attorneys refute facts like these.
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  Speaker 4: The trial is over, the jury has spoken, and the
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  Speaker 4: sentence is in. Joining us today Randy Kessler to talk
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: about what took place after the jury verdict that determined
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: Carmelo Anthony guilty and in a shocking way to go,
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: the jury only deliberated for three hours. This is an
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: amazing thing when you think about the magnitude of this case.
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  Speaker 4: One of the things that was brought up, in particular
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  Speaker 4: by Austin's dad, Austin Metcalf's dad said, this case is
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  Speaker 4: not about race.
• 2:07
  Speaker 5: It never has been about race.
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  Speaker 4: It's always been about teenagers in high school, and it
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: was made into a race issue. Outside of that all
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: of the media covering this case from around the country,
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  Speaker 4: And it's amazing now that as we go forward with
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  Speaker 4: this you break it down and it really does look
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  Speaker 4: like two high school students, athletes that got into an
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  Speaker 4: argument over what was the place for one team not
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: for the other. It was a track meet, there was rain,
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  Speaker 4: and Carmelo Anthony went into Austin Metcalf's team area.
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  Speaker 5: If you can remember back.
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  Speaker 4: To high school, things were very important like that to
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  Speaker 4: students in high school. As you look at it as
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  Speaker 4: an adult, You're going, come on, you're really going to
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  Speaker 4: argue about this?
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  Speaker 5: Well, yeah, in high school, you do argue about that.
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  Speaker 4: And that's what this entire case was about in terms
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  Speaker 4: of what started the disagreement, what became the argument that
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: ended in the death of Austin Metcalf. The jury decides
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  Speaker 4: guilty after just three hours. Randy Kessler, attorney out of Atlanta,
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  Speaker 4: longtime part of Nancy Grace's show over the years.
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  Speaker 5: Randy, give me your ideas and thoughts about.
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  Speaker 4: The jury verdict. Let's start with just the verdict of
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: Carmelo Anthony.
• 3:27
  Speaker 6: Thousands of thoughts going through olind Right, and you hit
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  Speaker 6: on a few times the fact that it was only
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  Speaker 6: three hours. You know, sometimes they could take three hours
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  Speaker 6: to pick a four person, It could take three hours
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  Speaker 6: to figure out where the jurors want to sit while
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  Speaker 6: they're deliberating. To come up with a verdict in three
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  Speaker 6: hours on a murder case, now, this isn't a shoplifting.
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  Speaker 6: This is something that's very serious. You want to make
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  Speaker 6: sure that our system that people think about it take
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  Speaker 6: it seriously, which you know, every time you talk to
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  Speaker 6: a jury out to the case. It's amazing how seriously
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  Speaker 6: jurors take this, even though no one wants to be
• 3:55
  Speaker 6: on a jury. Once you're on it and you're sworn in,
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  Speaker 6: you see how serious results are going to be in
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  Speaker 6: the consequences for the community and for the defendant. People
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  Speaker 6: take it seriously. Three hours. Defense really didn't have much
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  Speaker 6: of a shot. When it goes three hours, you know
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  Speaker 6: that there's not a lot you could have done. This
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  Speaker 6: was going to be a guilty just a question was
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  Speaker 6: it going to be one hour, two hours, three hours
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  Speaker 6: or five or six. As a defense lawyer, the more
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  Speaker 6: they deliberate, the more holes are being poked, the more
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  Speaker 6: questions being asked, the more you are hopeful and optimistic.
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  Speaker 6: And if you can get them to deliberate overnight and
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  Speaker 6: go home and sleep on it and think, do I
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  Speaker 6: want to put somebody away for something I'm not sure
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  Speaker 6: they intended to do, that's better. When it comes back
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  Speaker 6: to three hours, your heart sinks. As a defense lawyer.
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  Speaker 4: When the jury gets their instructions from the judge and
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  Speaker 4: they go back to the room, to the deliberation room,
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  Speaker 4: the first thing they do is determine who's going to
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  Speaker 4: be the four person, right, who's going to be in
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  Speaker 4: charge of the jury. Okay, once they've decided, then you
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  Speaker 4: mentioned sometimes that can take an extended period of time.
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  Speaker 4: I've never been in that situation, so I only know
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  Speaker 4: what I've been told. But once that jury four person
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  Speaker 4: is picked, do most juries immediately go ahead and hey,
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  Speaker 4: let's get a vote out there and find out where
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  Speaker 4: we are.
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  Speaker 6: Uh yeah, A lot of times you want to get
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  Speaker 6: a read on the jury. But again, there's no playbook
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  Speaker 6: for this. Nobody unless you've been a four person before,
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  Speaker 6: and then you're only basing it on your one or
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  Speaker 6: two or three experiences. You know, you haven't read a
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  Speaker 6: book on how to be a four person. You know,
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  Speaker 6: that's definitely what we hear that people say, let's let's
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  Speaker 6: read the room. And what's interesting to me is, you know,
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  Speaker 6: and I teach a class on jury trials at Emory
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  Speaker 6: Law School and we get to watch the jury deliberate.
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  Speaker 6: The student's final exam is a trial, and then you
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  Speaker 6: watch the jury deliberate. And it's fascinating because after the
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  Speaker 6: trial and you ask the jury, Okay, so what do
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  Speaker 6: you think It's like?
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  Speaker 7: Twelve people saw different trials. A lot of times.
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  Speaker 6: It's like you go to a movie with a friend
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  Speaker 6: and you come out and you say, well, then you
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  Speaker 6: hate that guy, and you say, no, I like that guy.
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  Speaker 6: You know, they all pick up on different things, So
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  Speaker 6: sometimes just hurting the cats and getting them to figure
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  Speaker 6: out where they're together and where they're apart can take time.
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  Speaker 6: So it's really amazing they seem to be on the
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  Speaker 6: same page or get on the same page pretty darn quickly.
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  Speaker 4: One thing that I've seen and when I hear of
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  Speaker 4: a three hour you know, jury deliberation, my first thought
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  Speaker 4: is they all sat through the same thing as you mentioned,
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  Speaker 4: and you know you're going to be using your brain
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  Speaker 4: along the way, regardless of what instructions you're given about anything.
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  Speaker 4: All of us have a tendency to judge things as
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  Speaker 4: we go through, and you know, determining am I hearing
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  Speaker 4: the truth or am I hearing a version of the truth?
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  Speaker 4: What am I hearing from this particular person? And once
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  Speaker 4: they're packed there, it seems to me like you would
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  Speaker 4: have a pretty strong idea of what you think happened
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  Speaker 4: at that point.
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  Speaker 5: So yeah, jury comes go ahead.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, you would think that all twelve jurors would come
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  Speaker 6: to the same conclusion because I all heard the same thing.
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  Speaker 6: People hear things differently. They see and hear emphasis on
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  Speaker 6: things differently, not only the evidence, but even the instructions
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  Speaker 6: from the giants they might hear differently. You know, there's
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  Speaker 6: those jokes about the people that see the sign out
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  Speaker 6: by the beach that says no swimming aloud, and someone
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  Speaker 6: else sees it as no swimming aloud. You know, how
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  Speaker 6: you hear things, how you see things comes from your history.
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  Speaker 6: That's why jury selection is so important. Do people follow
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  Speaker 6: the rules as somebody who's been through a situation like this,
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  Speaker 6: somebody who's going to empathize or sympathize with the defendant
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  Speaker 6: or the victim, or the judge or the lawyers, You
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  Speaker 6: know that jury vader. Picking the juris should take a
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  Speaker 6: lot longer than it typically does. So it's not surprising
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  Speaker 6: to me as a trial lawyer that when you get
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  Speaker 6: the juries into the room to deliberate, they don't always say, yep,
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  Speaker 6: we all heard it the same way. I mean, we're
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  Speaker 6: not robots. That's why we have a jury system. If
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  Speaker 6: it was robotic, if it was AI, if it was
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  Speaker 6: artificial intelligence, there'd be calculations, check the box guilty period.
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  Speaker 4: Now, in this particular case, was there any one thing
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  Speaker 4: in the trial that would have had the most impact
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  Speaker 4: later on with jurors and again only deliberating three hours,
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  Speaker 4: they probably all had heard everything and made decisions along
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  Speaker 4: the way to point them in that direction, and then
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  Speaker 4: getting together and agreeing. Was there any one thing at
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  Speaker 4: trial that actually proved the point of the prosecution?
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  Speaker 6: You know, I think it's just a question of that situation.
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  Speaker 6: If they saw themselves in that situation, how would they act?
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  Speaker 6: And nobody wants to say, oh, I would have stabbed somebody,
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  Speaker 6: And nobody would think, oh I would expect to be
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  Speaker 6: stabbed that.
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  Speaker 7: I mean, that's it's just a set of facts.
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  Speaker 6: And every lawyer I've seen comment on this, and every
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  Speaker 6: show I've seen, every report on it, everyone seems to
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  Speaker 6: think it was predetermined that this was a hard, hard,
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  Speaker 6: hard case. Because you take your body of life and
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  Speaker 6: you come to the situation. Who could have thought of
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  Speaker 6: a different way that could have been handled? Everybody right this.
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  Speaker 6: You don't walk into someone's tent, you don't start a fight.
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  Speaker 6: You don't even if it was provoked, even if it
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  Speaker 6: was self defense, stabbing someone in the heart, because they
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  Speaker 6: were in your you know, they wouldn't let you in
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  Speaker 6: their tent. It just you know, it was a hard
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  Speaker 6: one and A there wasn't I don't think there's one factor.
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  Speaker 6: I don't think there is. The whole case was sort
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  Speaker 6: of an A plus.
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  Speaker 7: B equal C.
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  Speaker 6: You know, he brought a knife to you know, they
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  Speaker 6: jokes he brought enough to a gunfight. He brought a
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  Speaker 6: knife to a try you've run. Hef to practice, so
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  Speaker 6: there was some premeditation of some plan that he might
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  Speaker 6: have to use it, and then he pulled it out
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  Speaker 6: and stabbed somebody. He you know, the only way to
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  Speaker 6: get around that would be to testify, and of course
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  Speaker 6: that's always a risk, and he didn't testify in his
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  Speaker 6: own defense. But when you say that it's self defense
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  Speaker 6: and I was defending myself, I think jury's got to
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  Speaker 6: see you and hear you, and taste you and fail
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  Speaker 6: you and believe you that you really were fearful for
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  Speaker 6: your life and that you'd had no other choice. It's
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  Speaker 6: hard to have a third party argue, oh, who's defending himself.
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  Speaker 7: That's why he stamped him. That sounds like after the
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  Speaker 7: fact rationale.
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  Speaker 4: And it's exactly how it played out in court that
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  Speaker 4: it didn't work, the idea that it was self defense.
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  Speaker 5: I made a point a minute.
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  Speaker 4: Ago that outside of the area where this took place
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  Speaker 4: in Texas, the race game has been played since day one.
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  Speaker 4: And yet I just I remember Austin's dad in particular,
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  Speaker 4: pointing out it's never been about race.
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  Speaker 5: It is about high school athletes in an area.
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  Speaker 4: And if you just remember back to high school and
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: how important things were, you know, things in high school
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  Speaker 4: or have a heightened importance in our lives just because
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  Speaker 4: we don't have that history to go with to balance
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  Speaker 4: things out, and you know that this is an important
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  Speaker 4: part of life in high school. This is my area.
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  Speaker 4: You're not allowed in it. And yes, you brought a
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  Speaker 4: knife to a track meet. You got to explain that,
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  Speaker 4: and it wasn't explained. Now the jury came back with
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  Speaker 4: thirty five years. Thirty five years in prison, and in
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: the state of Texas, the prisoner has to spend at
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: least half that time before they are eligible for parole.
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  Speaker 5: Is that correct right?
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  Speaker 7: And it may not be half. It depends on what
• 10:45
  Speaker 7: happens going forward. Is he a model prisoner? Is your
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  Speaker 7: role model?
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  Speaker 6: Does he do Bible study and help his fellow inmates,
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  Speaker 6: or does he get in trouble and then the pro
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  Speaker 6: board and this is you know, people, we don't even
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  Speaker 6: know who's going to be on the pro board fifteen sixteen,
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  Speaker 6: seventeen years from now.
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  Speaker 7: Look at it.
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  Speaker 6: And they decided at the time, not how bad was
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  Speaker 6: the crime so much, but what is he likely to
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  Speaker 6: do if we let him out of jail? Is he
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  Speaker 6: a model herson? Is he going to get back in
• 11:09
  Speaker 6: to society? Or we're gonna give them a chance. And
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  Speaker 6: maybe that's why the jury only gave thirty five years
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  Speaker 6: to give him that shot at redemption, that shot at
• 11:16
  Speaker 6: getting back in. He's a young man and hopefully there's
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  Speaker 6: good in all of this, and hopefully there's some good
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  Speaker 6: in him that can come out of this and he
• 11:23
  Speaker 6: ends up getting back into society. Is what the jury
• 11:26
  Speaker 6: I think hoped for, because if they thought there's absoutely
• 11:29
  Speaker 6: no redeeming qualities, they would have thrown the proverbial book
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  Speaker 6: at of life for ninety nine years.
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  Speaker 4: Which is one of that There was an option they
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: could have gone that far, but opted for the thirty
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  Speaker 4: five years. The prosecution wanted more, and many people felt
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: like this case deserved a longer sentence, of course, of
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: the defense and many others felt like it deserved less.
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  Speaker 4: I guess that's again one of those things that you
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  Speaker 4: can't what's going to happen in the future or what
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: was going through the guy's mind when the in this
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: case where the convicted doesn't take the stand and doesn't
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: say for himself, I really did the wrong thing.
• 12:14
  Speaker 5: I'm really sorry, I should have never done this X
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  Speaker 5: y Z.
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  Speaker 4: Without having that to go on, does that impact the
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: judge and the judge's ability to pass sentence.
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  Speaker 6: Yes, And of course the jury is the one who
• 12:26
  Speaker 6: sentenced them in this case. And you know, we're all
• 12:29
  Speaker 6: a composite of our history and our combined experience.
• 12:32
  Speaker 7: You know, who are we to judge right? And how
• 12:35
  Speaker 7: do we know?
• 12:35
  Speaker 6: And again, from the victim's point of view, there's no
• 12:38
  Speaker 6: sentence that's harsh enough. Right from the victim's family point
• 12:41
  Speaker 6: of view, there's no sense that's harsh enough. Why does
• 12:42
  Speaker 6: this guy get to go on living when their son
• 12:44
  Speaker 6: didn't get to go on living, when their brother doesn't
• 12:46
  Speaker 6: get to go on living.
• 12:47
  Speaker 7: On the other hand, if.
• 12:48
  Speaker 6: You're the state and you line up all the defendants
• 12:51
  Speaker 6: that you've prosecuted, you have mass murders, you have people
• 12:54
  Speaker 6: that have shot babies, you have people that have done
• 12:56
  Speaker 6: stuff that absolutely deserve a harsher sentence. So is it
• 12:59
  Speaker 6: on that spectrum or do you look at a case
• 13:01
  Speaker 6: by case It's a case by case situation. It depends
• 13:05
  Speaker 6: on who was on the jury. How do they feel
• 13:07
  Speaker 6: about these senses? How do they feel about incarceration, How
• 13:09
  Speaker 6: do they feel about punishment? Do they identify with the
• 13:11
  Speaker 6: victims because they have somebody who was a victim of violence?
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  Speaker 6: Do they identify with the defendant because they have somebody
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  Speaker 6: who was accused of being a criminal. I mean, it's
• 13:19
  Speaker 6: just a combination of twelve people's shared experiences and the
• 13:22
  Speaker 6: result is, you know, it's like making saults that you
• 13:24
  Speaker 6: put it all on the hoppurn, it spits out thirty
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  Speaker 6: five years.
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  Speaker 7: That was probably some sort of compromise.
• 13:28
  Speaker 6: I'm sure there were people on the jury they wanted
• 13:30
  Speaker 6: it to be excuse me, want to be one hundred years.
• 13:34
  Speaker 6: I'm sure there's someone on the jury that thought thirty
• 13:36
  Speaker 6: five years was too much. This is the natural result
• 13:38
  Speaker 6: of twelve people coming to a conclusion, and they did
• 13:43
  Speaker 6: their conclusion, and they got out of the room and
• 13:44
  Speaker 6: they did their job. This is one of those unique
• 13:46
  Speaker 6: cases where the lawyers probably had to prepare as much,
• 13:49
  Speaker 6: if not more, for the sentencing phase as for the
• 13:52
  Speaker 6: trial phase because they knew there's a strong likelihood. You know,
• 13:54
  Speaker 6: when you're a lawyer, whether you have a winner or
• 13:56
  Speaker 6: a loser of a case, and you don't always win
• 13:58
  Speaker 6: the winners, you don't always lose the loser. But generally speaking,
• 14:01
  Speaker 6: if you know there's a strong likelihood that you're going
• 14:03
  Speaker 6: to lose the guilt innocence phase, you got to practice
• 14:06
  Speaker 6: and prep for the sensing phase. And in Texas it's
• 14:09
  Speaker 6: pretty quick. They turn out to do the sensing right away.
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  Speaker 6: You don't have months like you do in some states
• 14:13
  Speaker 6: to prepare and gather your witnesses. So they've had to
• 14:16
  Speaker 6: prepare for the sensing and the guilt or innocence phase
• 14:19
  Speaker 6: at the same time. Hindsight's twenty twenty Hindsight says they
• 14:23
  Speaker 6: should have fifteen more witnesses testify as to what a
• 14:27
  Speaker 6: likable person this was, and it had to be something
• 14:29
  Speaker 6: that he's regretful and that he will turn it around
• 14:32
  Speaker 6: and give him some time. I'm sure everybody's second guessing
• 14:36
  Speaker 6: it now. On the defense side. But that's my only
• 14:38
  Speaker 6: comment is that what a heavy burden for the defense
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  Speaker 6: and their team to get ready for a guilt innocence
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  Speaker 6: and to simultaneously be thinking, well, how do I defend
• 14:48
  Speaker 6: him if he's found guilty, Because you want to start
• 14:49
  Speaker 6: off hoping he's not gonna be found guilty. He won't
• 14:52
  Speaker 6: have to get there. But our job is to prepare
• 14:54
  Speaker 6: for the worst. The worst was a guilty plea. I
• 14:56
  Speaker 6: made a guilty verdict, and then you got to move
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  Speaker 6: into your next job, which is a whole nother trial
• 15:01
  Speaker 6: pretty much, which might even be more important than the
• 15:04
  Speaker 6: guilty innocence, which is how much of a penalty is
• 15:07
  Speaker 6: he going to pay? Tough position for the warriors, tough
• 15:10
  Speaker 6: position for the families. But of course the victims are
• 15:12
  Speaker 6: the ones we have to think about, and hopefully they're
• 15:14
  Speaker 6: feeling like they got justice.
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  Speaker 8: And his brother was holding him, trying to hold the
• 15:21
  Speaker 8: blood in, and he passed. My son watched his brother
• 15:26
  Speaker 8: die in his arms.
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: During a track meet between Memorial High School and Centennial
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: High School in Frisco, Texas, a light rain begins to
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: fall and athletes take cover under tents with their respective
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: teams at Kukendall Stadium. Memorial High School athlete Austin Metcalf
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: finds Centennial High School athlete Carmelo Anthony under the Memorial
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: High School tent and tells him he needs to move
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: from under his team's tent. When Anthony refuses, words are
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: exchanged and Anthony tells Metcalf, touch me and see what happens.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: He first heard from the victim's father that from our
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: friends at Fox four joining us an all star panel
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: to make sense of a senseless and brutal stabbing. I
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: cannot get the image out of my mind of this
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: star athlete bleeding out dead as his twin brother tried
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: to stop the bleeding, holding him in his arms. You know,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: I've been to plenty of high school track events, my
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: son has been involved in track from the get go,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: and I can't even imagine a fatal stabbing over a
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: seat and a tent straight out to special guests joining us.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Katie Barber, Senior digital content producer at my San Antonio
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: dot Com. Katie, thank you for being with us. What
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: do we believe happened that led up to the horrible
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: stabbing death of this young star athlete? Literally scrubbed inside
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: and why did the suspect have a knife at a
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: track mate.
• 17:06
  Speaker 9: It's really not clear why he had a knife at
• 17:09
  Speaker 9: the track meet on April second, but unfortunately he did.
• 17:14
  Speaker 9: One witness told police that they were sitting with Metcalf
• 17:17
  Speaker 9: under their school tent when someone they didn't know, now
• 17:19
  Speaker 9: identified as Carmelo Anthony came over to them and he
• 17:24
  Speaker 9: is allegedly when I grabbed the bag when he was
• 17:27
  Speaker 9: confronted and reached inside and said, touch me and see
• 17:30
  Speaker 9: what happens.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, what wait? Hold on, Katie Barber joining me from
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: my San Antonio dot com. Who said what? Who sat
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: down where? Who said what? And who said touch me
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: and see what happens? Give me proper names.
• 17:44
  Speaker 9: One witness told an officer that they were sitting with
• 17:47
  Speaker 9: Metcalf under the school's tent when Carmelo Anthony came over
• 17:51
  Speaker 9: to them. While they were in the tent, the witness said,
• 17:54
  Speaker 9: Metcalf told Anthony to leave the tent, and when he
• 17:57
  Speaker 9: did that, Anthony grabbed his bag, opened it it, reached
• 18:00
  Speaker 9: inside and said touch me and see what happens. And
• 18:03
  Speaker 9: then police said in the doctor that no one believed
• 18:06
  Speaker 9: that he had a weapon at the time.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: Okay, if we have the facts correct, the suspect stabbed
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: an unarmed teen boy. But yet I'm hearing that the
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: suspect has walked free. I am also learning that it
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: was urged in court that the suspect has no criminal history.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: He's a juvenile. I'm listen to this.
• 18:39
  Speaker 10: Anthony's father was questioned about an incident involving his son
• 18:43
  Speaker 10: that happened at Carmelo's High School in February. The Daily
• 18:46
  Speaker 10: Mail refers to the incident as an altercation assault, but
• 18:50
  Speaker 10: as the situation was handled internally by the Frisco Independent
• 18:53
  Speaker 10: School District, it is unclear if Anthony was the aggressor
• 18:56
  Speaker 10: or merely a witness to the incident, or even what
• 18:59
  Speaker 10: type of incident occurred.
• 19:00
  Speaker 8: And his brother was holding him, trying to hold the
• 19:05
  Speaker 8: blood in, and he passed. My son watched his brother
• 19:10
  Speaker 8: die in his arms.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: That's from our friends at Fox for Dallas Fort Worth News. Okay,
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: let me understand this straight out. To trial lawyer Lisa Herrick,
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: partner at Vargie Somerset and former juvenile prosecutor, Lisa, thank
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: you for being with us when I can't get a
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: straight answer. That makes me think that there is subterfuge.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: So if the suspect, who is the admitted stabber of
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: an unarmed teen at a high school track meet, when
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: the stabber's camp is asked about an incident involving an
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: assault at the school, and I can't get a straight answer,
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: it tells me that somebody is covering, because if the
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: suspect was just a witness to an assault, or a
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: good samaritan or the champion that's stopped the whole thing,
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: we would have heard that, wouldn't we. I mean, they're
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: trying to get bond. They did get bond, So what
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: is this prior incident? And does it concern you that
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: when the suspect's father is questioned about this, as he's
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: urging his son's a good character, we don't get a
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: straight answer.
• 20:31
  Speaker 11: Well, what I would want to know is where any
• 20:33
  Speaker 11: criminal charges brought because of it? And or was Carmelo
• 20:39
  Speaker 11: suspended or expelled or did he have any sort of
• 20:42
  Speaker 11: school disciplinary action as a result of it? Because if
• 20:45
  Speaker 11: neither of those things are true, it does make me
• 20:48
  Speaker 11: believe that he probably wasn't the aggressor. Criminal charges don't
• 20:52
  Speaker 11: necessarily have to be brought due to a fight at school.
• 20:55
  Speaker 11: But schools are very likely to have some sort of
• 20:57
  Speaker 11: disciplinary action because of a fight school, especially if it
• 21:00
  Speaker 11: was one sided, especially for a person who was an aggressor.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, it disturbs me that someone is asking for
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: a reduced bond to walk free after stabbing an unarmed
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: teen dead and then not coming clean about what happened
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: at a prior school incident. I mean the father, Carmelo
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: Anthony's father was questioned about the incident involving his son
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: at Anthony's high school. So why am I not getting
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: a straight answer? Dave Mack? That changes everything. If there
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: was a prior assault by Carmelo Anthony on another think
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: it through, Dave mac For Pete's sake, this would be
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: a similar transaction if it's true, because Anthony would be
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: attacking another high schooler. I'd like to find out if
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: that victim was armed or unarmed. I'd like to find
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: out if Anthony was armed or unarmed, the extent of
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: the attack. Did it rise to an aggravated assault with
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: fists or feet? I don't know, do we know anything
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: or was that completely glossed over in the bond hearing.
• 22:08
  Speaker 12: We don't have an answer, right, it was completely glossed
• 22:12
  Speaker 12: over in the hearing, Nancy, the question was what happened,
• 22:17
  Speaker 12: and the answer was nothing. It was like a tap dance.
• 22:20
  Speaker 12: We cannot find out any information because it was handled
• 22:23
  Speaker 12: by the school district, by their own investigation, and that's
• 22:26
  Speaker 12: the only thing we know happened at school. They covered
• 22:30
  Speaker 12: I didn't want to say covered up. They said they
• 22:33
  Speaker 12: dealt with it and that was the end of it.
• 22:35
  Speaker 12: Dad didn't volunteer any information whatsoever about his son. Ian
• 22:38
  Speaker 12: be honest as a dad. If my son was accused
• 22:42
  Speaker 12: of doing something, and in this particular case he hadn't,
• 22:45
  Speaker 12: I would have been screaming, absolutely, here's what happened, and
• 22:47
  Speaker 12: I would tell you the whole story right then. I
• 22:49
  Speaker 12: wouldn't just walk away like I needed an umbrella to
• 22:52
  Speaker 12: get out of the sun.
• 22:54
  Speaker 8: Was able to see my son on the gurney with
• 22:59
  Speaker 8: a huge hole and blood all over him, and they
• 23:00
  Speaker 8: were pumping him. He wasn't breathing, His eyes would rolled
• 23:02
  Speaker 8: back in his head.
• 23:03
  Speaker 13: Centennial High School's Carmelo Anthony reaches inside his bag, grabs
• 23:07
  Speaker 13: a knife and stabs Austin Metcalf in the chest underneath
• 23:11
  Speaker 13: the Memorial's High School pop up tent, and then he
• 23:13
  Speaker 13: runs away as Metcalf's twin brother, Hunter comes to his
• 23:17
  Speaker 13: brother's aid. Witnesses point out Anthony to a nearby middle
• 23:20
  Speaker 13: school resource officer, who chases the suspect down.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: At first, you were hearing Austin's father speaking to our
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: friends at Fox for the family devastated. I cannot even
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: imagine what it would be like for the father to
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: see this, much less the twin brother holding Austin in
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: his arms trying to stop the blood. I wouldn't have
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: understood it if I didn't have twins of my own.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: They're practically joined at the hip and mineor boy girl
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: much less boy boy or girl girl, that play all
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: their sports together, that do everything to get other. Having
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: your twin bleed out dead in your arms, let me
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: go straight out to a special guest joining us. Also
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: like Lisa Herrick joining us from this jurisdiction, Doctor Kendall
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Crowns with US Chief Medical Examiner Terrance County. That's Fort
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Worth never lack a business in that Morgue, esteemed lecturer
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU, Texas Christian University,
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: and launching a brand new podcast make him in the
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Morgue April fourteen, Doctor Kimdall Crowns. I know you've studied
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: the case very carefully. Was there a way his twin
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: brother could have saved Austin.
• 24:50
  Speaker 14: I No, there wouldn't have been because the stab wound
• 24:52
  Speaker 14: was in the heart unless he could be gotten to
• 24:55
  Speaker 14: an emergency room like immediately, and they may been able
• 25:00
  Speaker 14: to save him, but more likely than not, he was
• 25:03
  Speaker 14: going to die anyway. That type of injury to the heart,
• 25:06
  Speaker 14: there's just really no coming back unless you're basically in
• 25:09
  Speaker 14: ther when you get stabbed. Explain why, Because it's your heart,
• 25:14
  Speaker 14: it's you know, it's all your blood's coming through there,
• 25:17
  Speaker 14: it's all being pumped out. And then when you have
• 25:19
  Speaker 14: an now hole in your heart, it's bleeding into your
• 25:21
  Speaker 14: chest cavity and you have to close that hole up
• 25:25
  Speaker 14: in the heart, So you'd have to crack the chest open,
• 25:28
  Speaker 14: get in there and try and fix the heart, and
• 25:30
  Speaker 14: there's just so much blood loss because of the size
• 25:33
  Speaker 14: of the hole. It's it's near impossible to save that individual,
• 25:37
  Speaker 14: and just putting pressure on it at the scene, all
• 25:40
  Speaker 14: that's going to create is they're just going to bleed
• 25:42
  Speaker 14: into their chest.
• 25:43
  Speaker 7: Cavity.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about what you're saying, doctor Kingdall Crowns,
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: because Katie Barber was Austin stabbed in the heart.
• 25:55
  Speaker 15: The arrest document states he was stabbed in the chest.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: So interesting, I wonder how close to the heart he
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: was stabbed. So okay, daughter killing Crowns, let's digest that.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Not stabbed in the heart, stab in the chest. Does
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: that make a difference in your analysis?
• 26:16
  Speaker 14: So it depends on where exactly in the chest you
• 26:19
  Speaker 14: go up. But if you're kind of in the midline
• 26:21
  Speaker 14: or to the left, that's going to be the heart.
• 26:24
  Speaker 14: You go up a little higher, it's the aorda, which
• 26:26
  Speaker 14: is the main vessel coming off the heart. You're going
• 26:29
  Speaker 14: to bleed out again in just a matter of minutes
• 26:31
  Speaker 14: from that as well, there's no saving them at the scene.
• 26:34
  Speaker 14: You go to a little to the side one way
• 26:37
  Speaker 14: or another. You've punctured at the chest, punctured the lung,
• 26:41
  Speaker 14: and that'll cause a collapse lung that causes a lot
• 26:43
  Speaker 14: of hemorrhage.
• 26:44
  Speaker 7: That one.
• 26:44
  Speaker 14: You may be able to save the person if you
• 26:47
  Speaker 14: can get him to the hospital fast enough. But from
• 26:49
  Speaker 14: all the information I've seen, it doesn't sound like it
• 26:52
  Speaker 14: got stabbed in the chest in the area of a lung.
• 26:55
  Speaker 14: It's more probably centralized hitting him in the heart.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: So, Doctor Kendall Crowns, if I were explaining this to
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: a jury, okay, I would take everything that you just
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: said and paraphrase it in openings and closings, and I
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: would repeat it in practically every one of my questions
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: that I asked you on the stand, and of course
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: a shortened way. But you're saying, there's no way, twin
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: brother Hunter could have saved Austin, because even if Hunter
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: could have pushed down where Austin was bleeding, and so
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: it would look like to the naked eye that he
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: had stopped the bleeding, the bleeding would still be happening
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: underneath the skin, and the blood would then be pumping
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: straight into the lungs. So he would die on his
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: own bloot in his lungs. I mean, there was no
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: way he could have saved him. Are you sure? Do
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: you feel confident in that?
• 27:57
  Speaker 14: Yes? I feel very confident in that.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 28:00
  Speaker 14: If he puts his hand on his chest and he
• 28:02
  Speaker 14: continues bleeding into his chest cavity, it's going to fill
• 28:05
  Speaker 14: up his chest cavity and it's going to make it
• 28:07
  Speaker 14: hard for him to breathe, and he'll basically die from
• 28:11
  Speaker 14: lack of oxygen. That actually takes longer. From the descriptions
• 28:15
  Speaker 14: I've read from the scene, he kind of dies in
• 28:17
  Speaker 14: a matter of minutes. To me, that sounds like a
• 28:19
  Speaker 14: major vessel was hit or the heart and he was
• 28:22
  Speaker 14: going to die no matter what was done.
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: Seventeen year old Austin Metcalf is being held by his
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: twin brother, Hunter, who is trying to stop the bleeding
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: after seventeen year old Carmelo Anthony allegedly stabs Austin in
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: the chest, piercing his heart. First responders arrive and take
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: over treatment of Austin as officers round up eyewitnesses to
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: the event to find out what happened. Hunter Metcalf is
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: so distraught he can barely speak to police, but officers
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: locate about two dozen student athletes and four coaches who
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: witness the stabbing and begin taking statements.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Gray.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: Just weeks after our Texas jury convicts Carmelo Anthony of
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: murder and sentencing him to hard jail time in the
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: brutal stab death of a fellow teen, Austin metcalf, A
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: brand new team of high profile lawyers take over the appeal.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: Attorneys for Carmelo Anthony asked for Judge John Roach to
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: be removed from post trial hearings because of his bias.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: In court filings, Anthony's attorneys say the judge made comments
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: to news reporters following the trial. When a reporter asked
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: Roach if the jury got it right, he responded, yeah,
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: they did. The judge then further explained himself and his rulings.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Those lawyers Russell Wilson, Gary Bledsoe, Michael ware Brooke, Close
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: with Ben Crump law Sean Deretia, and Justin Moore, an
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: entire fleet of defense attorneys. But can they overcome facts
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: like these?
• 30:05
  Speaker 10: A school resource officer is first on the scene in
• 30:07
  Speaker 10: confronts Carmelo Anthony, telling the suspect to put his hands
• 30:10
  Speaker 10: up in the air. Anthony tells the officer I was
• 30:13
  Speaker 10: protecting myself, claiming Metcalf quote put his hands on him Anthony.
• 30:18
  Speaker 10: Here's the officer saying he has the alleged stabbing suspect
• 30:22
  Speaker 10: in custody, and Anthony replies, I'm not alleged I did it.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Wow, I'm not alleged I did it. Joining me now
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: in addition to our other guest, Barry Hutchinson, renowned law
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: enforcement vet of twenty six years detective now chief operator
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: of Barry In Associates Investigative Services. Very thank you for
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: being with us. Did you hear what the suspect said
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: and I quote, I was protecting myself that Austin quote
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: put his hands on me, and that would be suspect
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Carmelo Anthony. Austin put his hands on Carmelo Anthony. According
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: to Anthony Anthony, hears the school resource officer say he
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: has the alleged stabbing suspect and responds, I'm not alleged
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: I did it.
• 31:13
  Speaker 16: Yeah, that's a pretty damning utterance from an evidentiary value.
• 31:19
  Speaker 16: And you know he pretty much admitted to the crime
• 31:23
  Speaker 16: by making that statement.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: Kate, Barry, Barry, I know that. I just read you
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: what he said.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: I'm asking you.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: What the state is going to do to prove that
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: and what the defense is going to do to try
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: to get away from it.
• 31:40
  Speaker 16: Well, the witnesses, they're going to contradict what he says anyway,
• 31:45
  Speaker 16: And you know there's twelve of those folks apparently or
• 31:48
  Speaker 16: more and they're going to make a statement that contradicts
• 31:51
  Speaker 16: what he says. That's pretty much gonna outweigh what he says.
• 31:55
  Speaker 16: The state's going to make form with prosecution. From that point,
• 31:58
  Speaker 16: his defense is going to be that it's you know
• 32:01
  Speaker 16: what he said originally, that it was self defense, that
• 32:03
  Speaker 16: he was in fear of his life, which it's going
• 32:05
  Speaker 16: to be awful hard and substantiate that, as you addressed earlier,
• 32:09
  Speaker 16: without the thread of equal violence to substantiate him music
• 32:13
  Speaker 16: badly force.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: Was that your bond.
• 32:15
  Speaker 15: Export its fine.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: Day. That's one of my friends at Fox for Dallas
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: Fort Worth News to Katie Barbara joining me my san
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Antonio dot com. What happened at the bond hearing.
• 32:32
  Speaker 15: His attorney was.
• 32:33
  Speaker 9: Asked about the knife, and he refused to answer a
• 32:37
  Speaker 9: question about it. He said, he just said, for unknown reasons,
• 32:41
  Speaker 9: Carmelo brought the knife to the school, but uh and
• 32:46
  Speaker 9: the district attorney also acknowledged that it was for unknown reasons.
• 32:49
  Speaker 9: So they're not prepared to go into that conversation. But
• 32:53
  Speaker 9: it seems to be the most pressing comment or most
• 32:56
  Speaker 9: pressing detail about the case right now.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, who asked who about why the knife was brought
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: to the track.
• 33:03
  Speaker 9: Meat Howard's attorney was asked by the media after the
• 33:10
  Speaker 9: hearing about this, and he just said it would be
• 33:14
  Speaker 9: irresponsible for me or them to say why he brought
• 33:20
  Speaker 9: the knife, and they're asking the public to.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: With Okay, so hold on, Katie Barber. Let me understand.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: I asked you what happened to the bond hearing, and
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: you told me something that happened outside the bond hearing.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: But I want to follow up on that. You're telling
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: me that Carmelo, Anthony's lawyer was asked why Anthony brought
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: a knife to the track Meat? Do I have it
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: right so far? Katie Barber.
• 33:46
  Speaker 15: Yeah, he was asked why he brought the knife?
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: Right, I got it, Yes, got it. I got it
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: the first time. So hold on right there. Lisa Herrick
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: veteran trial lawyer who has handled cases in juve juvenile justice.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: So the lawyer wouldn't answer why Anthony brought a knife
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: to a track meet. Here's my question. I'm sure you're
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: familiar with implicit intent to commit a crime, are you not? Yes?
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: For instance, if I say, okay, Lisa Herrick, I've got
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: a gun, it's loaded, and now I'm going to kill you, Bam.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: That's explicit, it's stated, and the law recognizes that. But
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: there is also implicit intent. For instance, if I reach
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: into my gym bag and take out a knife and
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: shove it into your heart, I don't have to say, Lisa,
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: now I'm going to stab you dead. It's implicitly proven
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: by my actions. I don't have to announce them. This
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: is the problem Carmelo Anthony's lawyers are going to have.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Implicit and explicit intent are equal in the eyes of
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Lady Justice. Under the law, they carry equal weight. Him
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: bringing a knife and then using it to stab someone
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: dead is implicit intent to commit a crime. That's why
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: the lawyer wouldn't answer that question, Lisa Herrick, I.
• 35:25
  Speaker 11: Think that's possibly why he wouldn't answer. I also would
• 35:27
  Speaker 11: like to know what kind of knife it was. If
• 35:29
  Speaker 11: we're talking about a largely hunting knife, there's probably no
• 35:33
  Speaker 11: reason why he should be carrying that. Maybe there is,
• 35:36
  Speaker 11: and his attorneys just don't feel like disclosing that at
• 35:38
  Speaker 11: this point. But if fits a small pocket knife or
• 35:40
  Speaker 11: like a Swiss army knife, maybe he carries that for
• 35:42
  Speaker 11: other reasons. Maybe he just happened to have it in
• 35:45
  Speaker 11: his backpack and used it for self defense. We don't
• 35:48
  Speaker 11: know what kind of knife it was at this point,
• 35:49
  Speaker 11: or at least I don't know, and I think that
• 35:51
  Speaker 11: that makes a difference.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: I think that matters, you know what. I think you're right,
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Lisa Herrick. I think you're absolutely right. If it's a
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: pen knife or a folding knife, yeah, a lot of
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: guys may carry those around. You're absolutely right. So the
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: type of knife is going to be very important. It's
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: my understanding. It's a fixed blade.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know that.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: In other words, not a knife that you fold out.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: It's a knife with the blade attached and it's not foldable.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: But we'll find out. That's a really good point, you know,
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: isn't it interesting at Leasta Herick, how one small fact
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: can change the terrain the topography of the case. Because
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: if he shows up like a knife, for instance, out
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: of the Brian Coburger case, a fixed blade army knife, right,
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: a military style knife with a sheath, that's much more
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: menacing and much more of an implicit threat to commit
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: a crime as opposed to a foldable pen knife. You're
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: absolutely right. I want to get back to the bond
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: hearing I want to find out why the known, the
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: admitted stabber of an unarmed boy at a track meet
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: for Pete's Sega High School track meet, has walked free.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Listen to this.
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: Just before his bond hearing, Carmelo Anthony's family retains Mike Howard,
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: a Dallas criminal defense attorney. The change of attorney is
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: announced by the Next Generation Action Network, a nonprofit that
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: is supporting Carmelo Anthony. Howard represents Anthony in court as
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: the defense seeks to have bond for Anthony lowered from
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: one million dollars to one hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
• 37:26
  Speaker 10: Prosecutors question Andrew Anthony, the father of the accused, why
• 37:29
  Speaker 10: Carmelo Anthony should have his bond reduced when the family
• 37:33
  Speaker 10: has already raised over four hundred thousand dollars from a
• 37:35
  Speaker 10: crowdfunding site.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Lisa here joining me, veteran trial lawyer in this jurisdiction.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: Lisa explain again in a nutshell, what is now emerging
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: as the defense And you know what, I haven't even
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: gotten to these sick conspiracy theories that are multiplying promulgating online.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: Get to that in a moment, But I pray that
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: since parents have not seen what is being said online.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: It's total BS technical legal term. But Lisa in a
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: nutshell in regular people talk, do not throw a Latin
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: phrase at me, Lisa Herrick and I know that you
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: can stand your ground? How and the hay is that
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: going to apply here? We normally think of it as,
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: let's just say somebody tries to break in your house.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: You don't have to run.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: You can shoot them right then and there. If you're
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: so disposed standing your ground, You're in a place you're
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: supposed to be. You have authority to be there, and
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: no one can make you leave. Now, explain how that's
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: gonna work in a high school track tent.
• 38:45
  Speaker 11: Right, stand your ground. We commonly use the phrase no
• 38:48
  Speaker 11: duty to retreat, so it some places will, like some
• 38:54
  Speaker 11: jurisdictions will require that you attempt to remove yourself from
• 38:58
  Speaker 11: the danger. That's not the case in Texas. In Texas,
• 39:01
  Speaker 11: if you're presented with a threat, with a danger, you
• 39:03
  Speaker 11: have the right to defend yourself and stand your ground
• 39:06
  Speaker 11: means you don't have to try to leave the danger first.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm reading the supplemental arrest report and the narrative
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: is written by officer Eduardo Cortes. Cortes states suspect was
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: on the track at the north end. There was a
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: chain link that separated officer Cortes from the suspect. Cortes
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: gives the suspect instructions to keep his hands in the air,
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: and at this time suspect verbally said, out loud, and
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: this is considered a voluntary statement, quote, I was protecting myself.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: Cortes goes on to note he had not questioned the
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: suspect about the incident, but suspect blurted that out. Then stated,
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: while walking him off the track, suspect states, quote, he
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: put his hands on me. Katie Barber joining me, senior
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: digital content producer my san Antonio dot Com, Katie. My
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: understanding from having read the police reports and the witness
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: statements is that the suspect goes under the other size tent,
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: right the other school's tent. At that point, Austin says,
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: this isn't your tent. Get out of here. At that point,
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: at that point, what does the suspect do.
• 40:44
  Speaker 9: Police says that when he's told to move out of
• 40:47
  Speaker 9: the tent, that he grabbed his bag, opened it and
• 40:50
  Speaker 9: reached inside. And this is when he tells Austin touch
• 40:54
  Speaker 9: me and see what happens, according to police, and.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: So naturally Austin touched him, Yeah, exactly.
• 41:02
  Speaker 9: Police say that he proceeded to touch Carmelo, and then
• 41:05
  Speaker 9: Carmelo then postures and tells Anthony and tells Austin to
• 41:10
  Speaker 9: punch him and see what happens.
• 41:13
  Speaker 15: A short time later.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Police don't say, say, to your understanding, Katie Barber, were
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: any punches Throne, did Austin ever hit the suspect?
• 41:23
  Speaker 15: It hit? It doesn't say.
• 41:25
  Speaker 9: It says he grabbed Anthony after that threat to tell
• 41:29
  Speaker 9: him to move, but it doesn't. But police do not say.
• 41:31
  Speaker 9: Witnesses did not tell police that he was punched. But
• 41:35
  Speaker 9: when he was grabbed by Austin is when he pulled
• 41:38
  Speaker 9: out the knife and stabbed him once in the chest,
• 41:42
  Speaker 9: is what police say.
• 41:43
  Speaker 13: A witness reported a police escort Carmelo Anthony to a
• 41:47
  Speaker 13: squad car. Anthony says he put his hands on me.
• 41:50
  Speaker 17: I told him not to.
• 41:51
  Speaker 13: Anthony also asks officers if the victim was going to
• 41:55
  Speaker 13: be okay and if what happened could be considered self defense.
• 41:59
  Speaker 13: Officers take evidence photos showing blood on Anthony's hands, but
• 42:03
  Speaker 13: don't find the knife on him.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: In the last days, just weeks after his murder conviction,
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: Carmelo Anthony hadds high profile attorneys to his legal team,
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: all working pro bono. One of them Mike Howard. Who
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: is Mike Howard? He's a Dallas Fort Worth criminal defense
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: attorney who has spent his career representing people charged with
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: felonies in both state and federal court. But can someone
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: even of his ilk, overcome damning facts?
• 42:44
  Speaker 8: He say, I'm gonna come over and see you this week,
• 42:46
  Speaker 8: so can look forward to it.
• 42:49
  Speaker 7: Hey, I love you, dad.
• 42:50
  Speaker 8: That's a love you, Tucson.
• 42:52
  Speaker 16: Those were the last words.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: Ever heard from me, the author and the twin speaking
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: to our friends at Dallas Morning News. What about the
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: blood evidence in this case? With conflicting witness reports, with
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: the suspect claiming self defense and stand your ground although
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: no punches were seen thrown, that blood evidence becomes critical.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: Remember it was raining. The track meet is outside.
• 43:23
  Speaker 5: Listen as law enforcement and paramedics arrive on scene. The
• 43:27
  Speaker 5: rain is falling harder.
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: One officer moves the memorial tent over the victim of
• 43:31
  Speaker 4: medics train to save his life and finding the bloody
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: knife in the stands quickly takes photos of it before
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: the rain could wash away all the blood. A blue
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: tarp is used to cover the knife in an effort
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: to preserve the evidence, and because it was so windy,
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: the officer uses a nearby backpack to weigh down the tarp.
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: He doesn't realize at the time the backpack belongs to
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: suspect Carmelo Anthony.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: Photo. No, juries don't want just a photo, they want DNA,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: do yoxuriy boat and nucleic acid. Straight out to renowned
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: medical examiner, doctor Kendall Crowns, joining us from this jurisdiction
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: of Texas dodger Kendall Crowns. The murder what we believe
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: to be the murder weapon, a knife covered in blood
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: had been thrown or obscured, let me just say euphemistically,
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: and it was pouring rain. What's the likelihood that we
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: can get DNA off that knife? Because the state needs
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: the suspects DNA and the victims DNA off that knife.
• 44:42
  Speaker 14: Well, it should probably still be able to get DNA
• 44:45
  Speaker 14: from it unless it was scrub clean with a cleanser
• 44:48
  Speaker 14: or a soap of something of that nature. There's probably
• 44:51
  Speaker 14: still enough DNA on the handle and on the knife
• 44:54
  Speaker 14: itself to be able to get a good DNA sample. Also,
• 44:59
  Speaker 14: you have to figure because of the contact between the
• 45:01
  Speaker 14: two boys, there's probably a way of getting DNA from
• 45:05
  Speaker 14: the victim as well.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Kt Barber. Where exactly was the knife discovered?
• 45:10
  Speaker 15: It was discovered in the bleachers on the north side
• 45:14
  Speaker 15: of the stadium, which is.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: Where, well, how the hey did he get in the bleachers? Ktie?
• 45:19
  Speaker 15: He ran off after the stabbing.
• 45:21
  Speaker 9: It didn't quite say a total direction, but he did
• 45:24
  Speaker 9: run off, and it's presumed that he threw the knife
• 45:27
  Speaker 9: when he ran off, because he didn't have the weapon
• 45:29
  Speaker 9: on him when he was detained.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: Right a minute, right there, Katie Barbermi san Antonio dot
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: Com to doctor John Delatory. If someone attacked me, and
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: I thought, back, I wouldn't take off running and then
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: hide the weapon, thought.
• 45:50
  Speaker 17: Yeah, you wouldn't.
• 45:51
  Speaker 18: But here's the thing is that if Anthony saw a
• 45:54
  Speaker 18: bunch of other people, dozens of other people that were
• 45:57
  Speaker 18: also around and in that tent, he might have felt overwhelmed,
• 46:01
  Speaker 18: he might have felt scared.
• 46:02
  Speaker 17: He could have done all of these things just as
• 46:04
  Speaker 17: a matter of panic. So he runs off, knowing that
• 46:08
  Speaker 17: he shouldn't have stabbed this person, but he did it anyway.
• 46:11
  Speaker 17: He throws a knife away, he takes off thinking that
• 46:14
  Speaker 17: he's going to get very far. There's all kinds of
• 46:16
  Speaker 17: things that could be happening, because it does not appear
• 46:19
  Speaker 17: as though he intended to go to that track meet
• 46:24
  Speaker 17: with the specific purpose to kill Austin Metcalf. It does
• 46:27
  Speaker 17: seem like things were going on underneath that tent that
• 46:31
  Speaker 17: neither one of these two boys were prepared for, and
• 46:34
  Speaker 17: both are now suffering the consequences, with Austin having lost
• 46:38
  Speaker 17: his life for some kind of nonsense.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: Lisa Herrick, you see where this is going. This state
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: is going to argue to a jury he ran off
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: and disposed of the weapon because he knew what he
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: did was wrong, and then immediately began forming a defense
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: in his mind and even asked law enforcement, Hey, could
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: that be self defense? You think that self defense?
• 47:04
  Speaker 11: There are a couple of things that cut in favor
• 47:06
  Speaker 11: of the self defense argument, and those are that he
• 47:09
  Speaker 11: did run away if he was scared, and he so
• 47:15
  Speaker 11: he's he stabs Uh.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: Scared, isn't he? If he was touch me and find out,
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: isn't he the one to say, go oh, punch me,
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: just see what happens. That doesn't sound scared to me.
• 47:30
  Speaker 11: I don't disagree with you, but getting into his mind
• 47:33
  Speaker 11: for a moment, and the argument that the defense is
• 47:35
  Speaker 11: going to make, right, they have to come up with something.
• 47:38
  Speaker 12: In his mind.
• 47:39
  Speaker 11: So if he'll say I was scared, I stabbed him.
• 47:43
  Speaker 11: I felt like the danger was subdued enough that I
• 47:47
  Speaker 11: could now safely escape, then then I can see how
• 47:51
  Speaker 11: running away would cut in favor of self defense. I
• 47:54
  Speaker 11: can see what you're saying. How running away?
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: You just said? Have you ever heard the price words salad?
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: Because I just heard one. Okay, wait a minute, what
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: did you say about the threat was subdued? You mean
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: he stabbed Austin in the chest? Is that what you're
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: talking about? So if the threat is subdued, why run then?
• 48:19
  Speaker 11: Because there were plenty of other people around who were
• 48:24
  Speaker 11: potentially new dangers, right, people who saw him?
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: No, No, I don't know what you're saying. You're making
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: that up like a good defense attorney. What other people
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: presented a danger? Nobody? What is are you serious?
• 48:40
  Speaker 10: Well?
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, so he stabs Austin dead, and then he
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: is in danger of.
• 48:44
  Speaker 11: What retribution people who want to hurt him now that
• 48:49
  Speaker 11: Carmelo hurt their friend.
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, guys, she's spinning this out, Lisa Harrick, That's why
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: she wins cases. She's spinning like rumpel Stiltskin. She's trying
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: to take Hay and spinning.
• 49:00
  Speaker 13: Into Gold Centennial High School's Carmelo. Anthony reaches inside his bag,
• 49:06
  Speaker 13: grabs a knife, and stabs Austin Metcalf in the chest
• 49:09
  Speaker 13: underneath the memorial's high school pop up tent, and then
• 49:12
  Speaker 13: he runs away as Metcalf's twin brother, Hunter comes to
• 49:16
  Speaker 13: his brother's aide. Witnesses point out Anthony to a nearby
• 49:19
  Speaker 13: middle school resource officer, who chases the suspect down.
• 49:22
  Speaker 7: First Off, roos for hav a second. I didn't know
• 49:25
  Speaker 7: what to do, and then us I saw him on
• 49:28
  Speaker 7: the fall over.
• 49:30
  Speaker 15: There good stuff, you.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: Were just saying Austin's twin brother and his mother with
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: our friend at the Will Kine show over on Fox,
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: joining me in All Star panel making sense of the
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: fact that a stabber killed an unarmed high school track
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: star and has walked free. I've heard from the bond
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: hearing about how the stabbers family needs to quote survive
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: how they need more money in addition to the nearly
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: half a million dollars they have raised online. But Dave
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: mac I've heard very little about what the victim's family
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: has endured. On top of their son being murdered with
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: his twin brother trying to stop the flow of blood.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: In addition to that, we now know there have been
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: attacks on the victim's family and the victim, Austin Metcalf's
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: mother's home was swatted.
• 50:34
  Speaker 12: What happened, Nancy, It's almost like a media blackout when
• 50:39
  Speaker 12: it comes to the victim's family. At eight o'clock at night.
• 50:44
  Speaker 12: What they get a nine to one to one phone
• 50:46
  Speaker 12: call giving the address of Austin Metcalf's mother and saying
• 50:52
  Speaker 12: somebody has been shot in the mouth. And this person
• 50:58
  Speaker 12: stays on the phone for an extended period of time
• 51:01
  Speaker 12: until Swatt can get out to the residence. They surround it,
• 51:05
  Speaker 12: they build up the whole.
• 51:07
  Speaker 5: Blue shield around the home.
• 51:09
  Speaker 12: They're trying to get in touch with Austin's mother, Megan,
• 51:12
  Speaker 12: and they can't get her on the phone. Well, her
• 51:15
  Speaker 12: phone isn't working right now. Swatt didn't know if she
• 51:19
  Speaker 12: had been killed. They didn't know if there were people
• 51:21
  Speaker 12: inside the house. They sent a drone inside this house
• 51:25
  Speaker 12: that has been swatted Nancy to go through every little thing,
• 51:28
  Speaker 12: and of course they didn't find anybody in there, and
• 51:32
  Speaker 12: they were able to clear the home. This is how
• 51:34
  Speaker 12: this family is mourning, going through police coming and thinking
• 51:40
  Speaker 12: they're being held against their will and being trashed.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, let me understand, Dave mag you're talking about Austin Metcalf,
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: the dead boy. His family, his mother's home was swatted.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: Someone calls police, an anonymous tipster and says a victim
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: has been shot in the mouth inside the home.
• 52:01
  Speaker 5: You have that one hundred percent correct.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: You know, maybe I'm projecting, but I recall when my
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: fiance was murdered. I couldn't even think straight. I could
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: barely form words. I felt like just howling like an animal.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: And this is a mother, a mother whose son, a
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: twin has been stabbed dead, who bled out in the
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: rain at a truck meet, and someone swats her home.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: I don't understand. Douglas Griffin joining me, senior police officer,
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: President of the Houston Police Officers Union, that's saying a lot.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: Twenty nine years on the Gang Task Force, you've seen
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: it all, Douglas Griffin, how is it that the victims
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: family has somehow become the bad guys in this scenario.
• 52:52
  Speaker 19: I really don't understand it. There's so many questions to
• 52:56
  Speaker 19: this case that you sit there and look at it
• 52:58
  Speaker 19: and go, how did this have happened? You have an
• 53:01
  Speaker 19: individual that goes to the wrong tent, not even his
• 53:05
  Speaker 19: school with h To me, it's almost like he intended
• 53:09
  Speaker 19: to start something somewhere in there. Then on top of that,
• 53:12
  Speaker 19: where are all the coaches and the teachers and the
• 53:15
  Speaker 19: staff these track bent events, There's people everywhere, and for
• 53:21
  Speaker 19: this to end up the way it did is just
• 53:24
  Speaker 19: a tragedy and it should never have happened. And I'm
• 53:28
  Speaker 19: still unfounded by the fact that he was able to
• 53:30
  Speaker 19: get a knife into a school facility like that, and
• 53:33
  Speaker 19: why would you have it in the first place. So
• 53:35
  Speaker 19: there's a lot of questions here that we have to answer.
• 53:37
  Speaker 19: We have to look at the way the school is
• 53:40
  Speaker 19: set up, the way the tints were set up, and
• 53:44
  Speaker 19: why it was so easy for him to pull a
• 53:49
  Speaker 19: knife from a bag and stab a student like that.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: You know, you brought up a really good point, and
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: I haven't thought this aspect through and that is why
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: Douglas Griffin, I would spend so much time with my investigator,
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: Ernest and go over and over all the facts. I
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: guess I knew it, but it's staring me straight in
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: the face. He Carmelo Anthony the stabber, the confessed stabber.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: If he hadn't confessed to it. And by the way,
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: I believe it's been caught on video, which I'm getting to,
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: he's not alleged. He confessed to it, all right. He
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: walks into the tent during a track mate carrying his
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: bag with a knife in it. It's very clear. I mean,
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: we've all been to high school football games and track events.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: It was lightly raining, so they have a tint. It's
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: very clear whose tent is who's there's the colors of
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: the school on the tent. There's all the teammates from
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: that school under the tent. They're all wearing their uniforms
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: from that school. It may even have the school's name
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: on the tent. So, Carmelo Anthony the stabber walks into
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: the tent with a concealed knife. Why, just as you said,
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: why would you go into the other side's tent with
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: a knife if you were not looking for trouble to
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: Lisa Herrick joining US veteran juvenile attorney partner at Vargie Somerset.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: This is important, former juvenile prosecutor, Lisa, thank you for
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: being with us.
• 55:46
  Speaker 11: Thank you, Nancy.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: That's enough time to form premeditation right there now. I
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: know that you defend juveniles after having been a juvenile prosecutor.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: But the reality is, under the black and white letter
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: of the law, Okay, premeditation, the intent to kill, or
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: the intent to commit any act can be formed in
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: the blink of an eye, the twinkling of a moment,
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: the time it takes you to raise the gun and
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: pull the trigger. The law does not require a long
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: drawn out period for a premeditation or planning mensrea malicea forethought,
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: for instance, a long drawn out period of poisoning someone
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: every single day, just a tiny bit of arsenic and
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: then they die. It can be formed just like that.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: Why do I care? Because premeditation or malissa forethought minsrea
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: is a key factor, the critical ingredient in a murder
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: one prosecution, isn't it.
• 56:48
  Speaker 15: Absolutely?
• 56:49
  Speaker 11: Intent is one of the main elements of a murder
• 56:53
  Speaker 11: or an assault, an aggravated assault with a deadly weapon
• 56:55
  Speaker 11: that turns into a murder. Because in Texas we have
• 56:59
  Speaker 11: a number of different ways that murder can be committed,
• 57:02
  Speaker 11: or the language for murder can be alleged, one of
• 57:06
  Speaker 11: which can be that you intend for a person to die,
• 57:09
  Speaker 11: but another can be that your actions, your intentional or
• 57:13
  Speaker 11: knowing actions, are.
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: Such that.
• 57:17
  Speaker 11: You would know that a person would die. So stabbing
• 57:20
  Speaker 11: someone in the heart, you would certainly know that a
• 57:22
  Speaker 11: person would die if you stab someone in the heart,
• 57:24
  Speaker 11: and that knowledge or that intent, like you said.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, Lisa Harriet joining me better in try
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: a lawyer. Lisa, You're absolutely correct. And I've got a
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: great example because when I speak to juries very often
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: or really anybody, and I can't tell I can't state
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: that this was my idea. I got it from someone
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: in the New Testament. I like to give examples, Okay, stories.
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: For instance, if I take a gun and point it
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: right over at my executive producer right here, Jackie, and
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: pull the trigger, and then it's say, oh, I just
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: meant to scare her. I didn't mean to kill her.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: The law presumes you intend the natural consequence of your act.
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: You don't have to say I will now kill you, bam.
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: The law presumes you intend the natural consequence of your act.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: So when you take the time to go to your
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: duffel bag, your athletic bag, unzip it, get out a knife,
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: and then stab someone, and then we have the previous
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: threat to touch me and see what's gonna happen. All
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: of that adds together to make a premeditated murder case.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: Now you have not only prosecuted juvenile cases felonies, which
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: is a whole other animal prosecuting in juvenile court GV
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: Court versus big court. Uh, what's your defense in this case? Lisa?
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: What would your defense possibly be? Is it true that
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: A and your ground defense is brewing? How can that
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: perk light that didn't happen?
• 59:06
  Speaker 11: A standard ground defense is hard in this fact situation
• 59:10
  Speaker 11: because stand your ground law presumes that the victim is
• 59:15
  Speaker 11: somewhere that they are not supposed to be. Right, you're
• 59:18
  Speaker 11: defending your space when standard ground law applies. And certainly
• 59:23
  Speaker 11: Austin was in a place where he was allowed to be.
• 59:25
  Speaker 11: Now I think Carmelo probably was allowed to be where
• 59:28
  Speaker 11: he was as well. It's a public place right. But
• 59:30
  Speaker 11: in order to claim standard ground and in order to
• 59:35
  Speaker 11: use that as your defense. You have to be defending
• 59:37
  Speaker 11: your space. And so I know Carmelo is saying that
• 59:41
  Speaker 11: Austin put hands on him. But deadly force is self
• 59:46
  Speaker 11: defense theory that is supposed to be used deadly force
• 59:51
  Speaker 11: meets deadly force. Self defense is not.
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: Lisa, again, you're absolutely correct regarding the less of the law.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: I like to use this example. You can't slap me
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: and then I shoot you down with an oozy okay,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: As for instance, I can't battle back against your fly
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: swater with a machine gun. So you said it deadly
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: force equals deadly force. But here isn't it true that
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: Austin Metcalf was unarmed, So to introduce a deadly weapon
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: that's deadly force versus no force.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 11: Correct, And even more so self defense without a deadly weapon.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 11: Regular self defense is not a justifiable defense to use
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 11: against words alone. The law says that words are not
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 11: sufficient provocation to use self defense.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: To Katy Barber joining me, content producer at my San
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: Antonio dot com. Was the track event still ongoing? I
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: take it that it was, since so many guys were
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: still under the tent.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 15: At the time of the stabbing.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 9: It was a rain delay so everybody had taken a
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 9: beat and they were waiting for the rain delay to
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 9: be over when the fight first began.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: So simply that's a yes, the event was still ongoing.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: What does that mean to me? That means to me
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: that there are going to be a lot of witnesses
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: and everybody waiting for the rain delay to end. We're
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: all huddled under that tin. There was no way that
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: Anthony did not know he was going in the wrong tint,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: no way with a knife. I just wanted to clarify
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: that It's not like the track meet was over and
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: everybody was gone and the only one sitting under there
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: was Austin Metcalf and that somehow he carmelo. Anthony didn't
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: know where he was going. No, he went into the
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: other side's tent with a knife. Okay, Dave Mack, you
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: mentioned that Austin's mother's home was swatted with someone saying
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: someone have been shot in the mouth in the home,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: so police swarm the place. What about threats on Austin's father.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 12: He has been getting threats since this first began, by
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 12: text messages, by phone calls. Nancy, this grieving father had
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 12: a person show up at his house banging on the
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 12: door and he had to call police. He is under
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 12: attack online, on everywhere you can imagine. And again, the
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 12: scariest thing I can think of is somebody you don't
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 12: know showing up at your address knowing who you are,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 12: and that happened to him. I don't even know how
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 12: you go to sleep at night knowing that people can
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 12: find you and they're gonna they're verbally violent towards you,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 12: and you're the victim.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: I just don't understand how this has gotten so best Awkwards.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: Neither family is the bad guy. Carmelo Anthony's family not
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: the bad guy. The victim's family certainly not the bad guy.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: So how has the victim's family turned into the scapegoat here?
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: Why is the mom's house getting swatted? Why is the
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: dad getting threats? People showing up bamming on his door.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: They have put their son in the ground, they have
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: been to his funeral. I can't even imagine anything worse
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: than that. I want you to listen to the dad
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: Jeff metcalf foughts.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 8: For and his brother was holding him, trying to hold
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 8: the blood in, and he passed. My son watched his
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 8: brother die in his arms.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: The father Jeff Metcal describing the moment his son Austin
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: was stabbed dead at a high school track meet. As
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: Carmelo Anthony adds a fleet of high price defense attorneys,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: all working for free, to his appellate team, we are
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: hearing about his life behind bars, including pancakes for breakfast,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: chicken parmesan for lunch, chicken and rice for dinner, breakfast, burritos,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: port noodle casseroles for lunch, beef chili for dinner. What okay,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: I'd love somebody to bring me chicken palm. As Carmelo
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: Anthony and his fleet of high priced lawyer's fight to
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: set him free, we wait.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: A different calling County Judge. We'll hold a hearing on
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: August nineteenth on the motion to replace Judge Roach. The
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: next day, the defense team will argue their motion for
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: a new trial.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: Nancy Gray's crime story, signing off goodbye for him,