Latest / The Elevator Careers Podcast / Inside Elevator Consulting & Sales | Mike Balsamo

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Inside Elevator Consulting & Sales | Mike Balsamo · The Elevator Careers Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: I hate the term business development because it's I just think of a salesman who's out there trying to, you know, sell and run.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's definitely not what I'm about.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's definitely not what VDA is about.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm more into client relations, existing clients.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's so it's I think it's easier to bring in a new client because you can pretty much say whatever you want to get them to sign the paper.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: The problem is keeping those existing clients.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that that's something that I've always prided myself on at Pierce Marcado and also here at VDA.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's very easy to lose an existing client.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I we have our top 40, which I always email them just to check in and say hello and see how things are going.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: But believe it or not, that's really where 85% of my business comes from, is for my existing clients who I've been dealing with for the last 30 years.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um they've been so loyal to me, and it's because I've always been there for them.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, and welcome to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the Allred Group.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: I am your host, Matt Allred.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: In this podcast, we talk to the people whose lives and careers are dedicated to the vertical transportation industry, to inform and share lessons learned, building upon the foundation of those who have gone before to inspire the next generation of elevator careers.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: Today our guest is Mike Balsamo, Senior Vice President with Van Dusen Associates in New York City.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: Mike started his career with P.S.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: Marcado working summers as a helper, and he credits his early time in the trade to being foundational to the work he does today.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: Mike says responsiveness to customers is critical because that is how you build trust.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: Mike is also a champion of continuing education, knowing education is the key to opportunity.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: Mike, welcome to the show.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm excited to be able to talk.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: It was it's been good talk with you before, but uh to to really dig in a little bit deeper to your experience, your career, and and obviously the insights that you have about the elevator industry.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'm curious, how did you get started in the elevators, uh, elevator industry?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I was sort of a lost soul uh going to college uh after high school, and college just was not for me.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And uh my father, he had worked for a large independent here in New York City, where he was the service manager right out of the army uh for about 54 years.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was his first job out of the service, and that's where he retired from.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: And ummers during college, uh during high school and college, I was uh a helper within the industry, learning pretty much about elevators, performing maintenance, uh, more on the service and not on the new construction side or the construction side.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: And um I was pursuing actually a career in finance.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: And uh the owner of the company, I had stopped at Salo, and me and him, you know, from knowing my dad and whatnot, we were sitting and having lunch, and uh he told my father after lunch, you know, I'm gonna offer your son a position here in sales.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: And my father said, sales.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, he's no sales guy, he can never sell elevators.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Dad.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I mean, talk about vote of confidence.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so we spoke, me and the owner, and I accepted the the the uh position back in 1996 as a an account executive.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And believe it or not, I was there for 21 years.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so tell me, let's let's yeah, for before we get into to kind of the the end of that story, your father obviously didn't see you as a salesperson.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: What what was your initial thought?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, did you I mean obviously you accepted it, but was there some uh some fear of of saying, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna go sell.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even know what that means.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, I just think I was young and I didn't care.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, you know what, this this I I know elevators.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I remember while I was a helper speaking with some of the superintendents, building managers, and uh to be very honest with talking to them came natural.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I could see that I was speaking, I was actually working with older mechanics at the time, as I was only 16, 17, and I was speaking to the managers, and the mechanics didn't want to speak to the agents or the superintendents.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: You could see kind of that spot where you could fit, right?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I I didn't see it then, I just felt comfortable doing it.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: So when I was offered the position, I was very intrigued and really didn't take too much uh stock of what my father had to say.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's why I I sort of went after the the position and accepted.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: That's great, yeah.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: And especially like you say, you trying to get through college and you a good job comes along, it's like man, why not?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and college was not for me.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And um, even my you know, my parents knew that today.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, you really have to understand your child and what their limitations are.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I know some parents say me, my son or daughter's going to college to become a doctor, and I sit back and say, No, they're not, you know.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: So my father knew I was not.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh uh, I was pretty much after high school, I was done with education aspects that go in that round.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so the formal education, right?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, right your your education.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm learning every day.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and and I've said before that uh the the formal education system doesn't necessarily serve everyone, right?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: There's there are different ways to learn.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: I I tend to be pretty hands-on type learner, and I I got through college, but I I struggled and I didn't feel any smarter when I got done.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: I I remember being super scared about actually stepping into the real world and being expected to know something, and I and I didn't feel super confident in my abilities, so yeah, I get it.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so yeah, I then I accepted the position and then uh pretty much worked through the ranks.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: I was learning every day about elevators, new applications on elevators, new systems.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I had a I had a nice foundation as being a helper.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, helpers today compared to almost 30 years ago is much different as far as what your mechanic expected out of you.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't think, and that's something that we could discuss even further.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's like a lost art is you know, how you pass down that that knowledge and how do you train the younger generations coming in?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so let's yeah, let's talk about that a little bit because I mean, on one hand, we're talking about education and and I feel like formal education, you know, my dad is a state legislator out west, and he he's kind of big, you know, he was a school teacher for 35 years, but he tells me that college, for example, only serves 20% of the population, that that there's there is a niche that that's gonna thrive in that environment, but he says it's only 20%.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so he's pushing for you know more trade schools, which in my experience it's like they that used to be there.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know if the education system has said, hey, we don't we don't need that as much because we're just gonna send everybody to college.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: But if 80% are are not gonna thrive in that environment, then you know, you I'm just curious what I mean, if that's uh kind of what you were thinking as far as uh, you know, I definitely am.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: And believe it or not, my my daughter is now in college, so I speak to a lot of her friends, and I, you know, I'm very curious as to what the younger generation really sees as far as their future.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: And and I could tell that there's a large majority that they're not cut out for college.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I tell them, you know, you're good with your hands, uh, you know, and they take interest when I speak about elevators and not just elevators specifically, they're very curious about trades.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: The problem is there's no one on the educational side that's informing them that that's even an option.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it's I sort of feel like a recruiter, you know, after speak with them, I'm like, hey, listen, get a formal degree.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you might be interested in elevators as far as the business aspect of it.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Get a two-year business associate, you know, get a two-year degree, come out and work for an OEM or local independent here, you know, wherever you wherever you locate it.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't have to be hands-on as far as a mechanic, but you could take the business path too.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it we're always looking for operations managers, saleswomen, salesmen, so you know, any type of salesperson, uh, account representatives.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's again, it's not in the field, you're not getting your hands dirty, it's not hands-on, but it's it's just that it's another path to an amazing career.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: And students and the younger generation, it's like elevators.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: I keep on saying because that's what I'm involved with.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's like an untapped market when they're like, What are you involved with?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I sell elevators, and they're like, Wow, explain that.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: What does that even mean?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, when you get into it, eight out of 10 people I speak to, they're so intrigued by it and they're so curious.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's, you know, hey, Mike, they call me the following week.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm interested.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, can you set me up with one of the OEMs locally?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like to talk to them about maybe going to school at night, getting a business degree, and working for them during the day.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's, I think the education system is is failing some of the students as far as not giving them trades as an option.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: And and and culturally, see, it seems like the the minds of a lot of people, you know, it's like they don't even think of of trades, and yet there's some really, really well paid trades.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I have a friend from you know years ago that he uh he took about one college class and is like, no, not gonna do that.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: He now owns his own roofing company and does really, really well, you know.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I'm like, yeah, that's uh it's a great, a great way to go for a lot of people.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: And like you say, whether they're learning the business or maybe they do want to get their hands dirty and maybe they do want to learn the the technical pieces.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: There's always in in my experience as a recruiter, I'm always talking to company owners that just can't find enough talent.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's so funny you said that because my friend owns a large plumbing company here in the city, and he says, I I can't find anyone to work, and whoever I have, they're not here, they they can't make a full week.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: He says, if I had someone out of college that really took an interest in plumbing, I mean, with overtime, he could be running my shop and he could be hands-on, he could be making overtime, he could be making an amazing salary, more than what some of these kids coming out of college are gonna wind up making.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, but like you say, I just I can't find the people.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's uh it's everywhere.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: So hopefully, hopefully somebody's listening that that will uh you know steer their kids uh towards the trades and and to great careers.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hopefully it's some of the uh union reps that are listening, and they actually can start maybe a recruitment program or a guidance program where they can become a speaker guest speaker at these colleges and talk about the trades.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, it doesn't have to be elevator specific.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Plumbers, carpenters, electricians, I mean, you you name it, uh trades here, especially in New York City, they're doing phenomenal.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: Cool.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: I know when I was in high school, there was a it was before I got in high school, actually.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: They they had a program where they would build a house, like the shop classes.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, you're kidding me.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, by the time I came along, they'd kind of disbanded that.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: But I thought, that is brilliant, you know, to teach somebody to build a house in in high school.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: Amazing, right?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: So you you said you you took the sales job, you did that for 21 years.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, what were some of the biggest obstacles, challenges to kind of stepping into that?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it sounds like you just kind of went full steam ahead.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: So it it it's more of uh we keep on honing in on education, it's learning the business.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say learning the business, um I I took a different, I took more of the business path in elevators, but you really have to have understand the fundamentals of an elevator system, how it works, what's needed.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's basically custom service.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, if you have your product knowledge and your custom service, the career in elevators is actually very easy.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: And echoes for really any job.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: You have to know what you're talking about, you have to be able to guide your clients and customers, um, and responsiveness.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, those those are the key factors right there.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: Where do you see responsiveness showing up?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: Uh you know, just I I hear different things, right?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm not in the trade to to know, you know, exactly how that's working.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: But just just curious, you know, do you see certain companies losing out because they're not responding?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: And and how does that affect you as on the consulting side?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it actually I see it uh as an industry issue right now where custom where where contractors are not responding um to the client's needs.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it's great for us as the consultant because clients are calling us up saying, hey, I need your help.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Can you call this contractor?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just a way for us to build our relationship with our existing clients.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: So we sort of act like an intermediate for them.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we're stepping in and we're really following up with the contract to say, hey, you know, Mr.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: and Mrs.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Jones needs you to respond to these emails, and and she's been sending them, he's been sending them for the last two or three weeks, you know, and and we we get involved, we sort of really go after the contract of not forcing them to respond, but we're we're on top of them where they do.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And the client's really appreciative of us, and and we sort of see that the job gets done or the questions get answered.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: And what what what is it something you can do to, you know, but if they don't want to respond, they just keep not responding.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, how how do you well if if that happens, I mean, I'm up front with the client, say, hey, listen, you know, we've we've reached out to them 10, 12 times, they're not responding.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know what the problem is, but you might want to look for an alternate route for a contractor.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and that that happens a lot, or we just get the phone call from the client saying, Hey, Michael, I need you to bid out the service agreement because the contract is totally unresponsive.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes we're left out and the client will just call us and say, Hey, listen, I need a new service contractor.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: They're not responsive.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: I I've heard that it can be extremely difficult to actually get out of those contracts.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: So how does that how does it even work?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, it depends.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: To rebid it another particular there's there's different variations of maintenance agreements.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know as far as a consultant agreement, there is uh a 30-day out for cancellation for just cause.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: And we say just cause because we don't want a contractor ever doing a very costly repair and then losing the building for no reason 30 days later.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: So we want to make sure that there's there's there's a record of cause, and we're also giving a timeline for that contractor to be put on notice and correct the conditions.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: If he fails to meet what you know, two of those three uh criteria, then the then the client can cancel them.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we're we're fair on both sides.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if the client's happy and they're gonna keep the contractor, but the contractor's got to keep the client happy.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: If one of them becomes unhappy, then there's certain guidelines on how to get out of that contractor for both parties.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's that's good to know.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, and it does seem like you you kind of walk a razor-thin line.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, obviously, you've got to, you know, work for and and with your clients, but you also can't alienate the contractors because you know it's a it's a partnership all the way across.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: And listen, we're sometimes we're hired to do a maintenance contract, handle the bidding.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Some clients come to me and say, hey, this is the contract which was given to me.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have the cost to enter into a VDA contract at this time.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna sign with them.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll give a quick review and I just look at the cancellation clause and the terms, and I just make sure that it that it's uh equitable on both sides for both parties.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: Cool, cool.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: So kind of kind of the uh the the consultation, but hey, I can't afford to to hire you full-time, but right.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_03: Can you help me for a minute?
• 15:41
  unknown: Correct.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, some of these contracts state that we're on a term of 15 to 20 years.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I would never sign a contract with anything for 15 to 20 years.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think you would either.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I just advised my client, you know, see if you could push this down, you know, to a three or five-year term.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end, either party has the option to get out.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's cool.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: So so let's talk a little bit more.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: You you talked about learning the business.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: And what what were some of the things that you did early on to really, you know, really learn the business?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: So when it comes to what you're doing now, you know, obviously you've you've known it for a long time.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: You're able to walk, you know, that walk the talk, as it were.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um what what in the early days really helped you to learn the business?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it it was basically all the mechanics that I work with and doing grunt work.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say grunt work, it's you know, it's what the newbies in the industry don't want to do.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, painting machine rooms, cleaning the pits, uh being a parts runner, going back to the shop and finding those parts that you need.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that this chemistry between helpers and the elder mechanics, you know, when I say that, I I I tell all the younger ones coming in, try to anticipate what your mechanic needs.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, try, you know, focus.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Don't stand there with your hands in your pocket looking around aimlessly.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Watch what he's doing because indirectly he's teaching you.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: So watch what he's doing, ask questions.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: And uh again, whatever he tells you to do, just make sure that you do it and make sure you do it to his liking.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you're gonna paint something, paint it like you live there.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's your house.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, make it a show job.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, take pride in your work, show your mechanic that you care.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that that's how you build a relationship with your mechanic.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And as we have a lot of good mechanics in the industry and and they're willing to teach.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: The problem is I don't see that the younger ones coming in are willing to learn.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's yeah, that's a huge challenge there.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, okay, if you if you like you say, if you show up and and you're not paying attention.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is this a job where you're just collecting a check or you want this to be your career?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: You have to decide, you know?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's your career and you want to own it, a lot of these mechanics are willing to teach you.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: How how critical was it to your career that you spent time as a helper before just coming in as a salesperson?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it sounds like you you have it it that was very critical.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's my foundation.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, um uh I'm not gonna say I was the greatest helper, but I was a good helper.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was very good at understanding the systems.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not I'm not mechanically inclined or the best with my hands, but um, you know, like I said, I was always the type that didn't stay around aimlessly.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: I asked a lot of questions.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know if I was going to be on the mechanic side when I was a helper.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even know if I was going to be in the business, but I was very curious as to what I was doing every day.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I asked a lot of questions and whatever my mechanics did, and also, you know, my father was in the business and I was working for the same company.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: I also didn't want any complaints to get back to my father that I was a bad helper.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um I made sure that I was I was doing everything by the book.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was paying attention, I was listening, I was asking questions, and I was doing whatever they asked of me.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um what who were some of the the big mentors that you have?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: Who were some of the people that you felt like really took the time to invest in you?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'd say I gotta be honest, I work with about 50 mechanics at uh I was working for P.S.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Marcado.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of the largest uh independents here in New York City, still around.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: They've been around since 1903.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um and every mechanic that I work with really helped me in some way, shape, or form.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Every one of them.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the list would be too long, but uh I knew all these mechanics, and like I said, I mean, I was a helper for summers, but my father would do dispatching.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: I would speak to these mechanics since I'm seven, eight, nine years old.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they used to call the house and whatnot.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's funny because now that I'm here at VDA, some of those mechanics that I work with in their 20s are now retiring out of PS Marcado.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: And they're coming here to be inspectors.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we hired one gentleman, and um, when he walked through the door, he started leaving.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, I can't believe I know you since you're seven years old.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's you know, it's scary.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: But uh he was one of the hires that we had that I worked with him on the upper west side of Manhattan, and he was a troubleshooter for PS Marcado, and I learned so much from him.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: And um, like I said, it was all the mechanics, and and you understood where their faults were and you learned what not to do, and but you also have to take away all the positive because they all have positives, and you gotta hone in on that, and you got to take the positive from everyone that you work with.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um different personalities and techniques, just take the good from each one of them and just learn from it.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, and that is that is truly the education process, right?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's not about a formal class necessarily, it's about learning from life, learning from the people, you know, seeing the goods, the bads, and then and then choosing who are you gonna be?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: What are you gonna be giving giving all these inputs?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: Because you can you can choose to do bad, right?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: You can you can choose to be lazy or or whatever, but then you know, you get a pick.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: Very true.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: How how did how did that change as you moved into sales?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I assume you weren't, you know, working, you know, still helping as a as a as a helper, but you'd already kind of done that.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but believe it or not, um when I first started in sales, you you have a lot of downtime.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um and to to mitigate that as a loss, I would actually go out with the mechanics still and keep on learning and watch them.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: I would take them for lunch, say, hey, you're on a service call, I'm gonna go with you.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not so much to hang out, but just see different problems, understand different situations, and all that learning is paid off because believe it or not, even though I'm not a mechanic per se, I have clients call and say, Hey, this is the condition I have.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I say, you know what?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you tell the contractor look for this or this or that?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And nine times out of ten, I nail the problem from from from a phone call.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's all about learning.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: So still going out, but then obviously also having to to incorporate, you know, I guess calls, you know, calling on existing customers and new customers, I assume.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: And then and and uh you were you were selling like service mod repairs, uh new uh like new construction or pretty much I was not involved with new construction, it was pretty much modernization, repairs, maintenance.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Those were the three aspects of uh, and that's local three here, that's the electrical union here in in New York City.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, local three, that's what they do.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: They're involved with mods, repairs, uh, and maintenance.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Local one is involved with all that, including new construction and new installations.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, okay.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: And so uh for 21 years, what what kind of motivated you to leave after 21 years?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's a long time.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Good story.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: So uh when I first started at PS Marcado, um the operations manager was a gentleman by the name of Robert Coozie.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um he trained me and he was worked with me at PS Marcato for four years.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: And when he left after four years, he went to VDA.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And subsequently he became the owner here at VDA.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I've always stayed in touch with him.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: And after 21 years, I was just uh I was looking for a change, maybe a different aspect of the business, look at different just a different perspective.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I was having lunch with Robert Coozie, and he says, Why don't you come over to VDA?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: And um it just it happened to work out that way, and it was an amicable breakup between me and PS Marcado.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, very tough one.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I still consider them like family.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh yeah, that was that was after 21 years, the business was changing, and I had grown, I think I just met my height.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: I was ceiling out at PS Marcato.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I think by moving here to VDA, I had more of a uh a pad to Excel.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: And you've been at V VDA how long now?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Almost eight years.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Eight years, yeah.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: And you as I understand it, you've got all of the New York area.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: Do you cover like the entire Northeast, or what's what's kind of your area of responsibility?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so my area is the New York City metro area, um, which encovers northern New Jersey, New York City, and the five boroughs.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: So VDA is uh a very large organization.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: We are national, but um metro area handles approximately 55% of our revenue.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it's yeah, it's it's a big chunk of our revenue.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I oversee it here with three others uh for this New York City VDA market.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I know I think your part of your title is business development.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: So are you constantly you know pulling in new customers along with keeping everybody else happy, as it were?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I hate the term business development because it's I just think of a salesman who's out there trying to, you know, sell and run, and that's that's definitely not what I'm about.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's definitely not what VDA is about.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm more into client relations, existing clients.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's so it's I think it's easier to bring in a new client because you can pretty much say whatever you want to get them to sign the paper.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: The problem is keeping those existing clients, and that that's something that I've always prided myself on at Pierce Marcado and also here at VDA.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's very easy to lose an existing client.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I we have our top 40, which I always email them just to check in and say hello and see how things are going.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: But believe it or not, that's really where 85% of my business comes from, is for my existing clients who I've been dealing with for the last 30 years.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um they've been so loyal to me.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's because I've always been there for them.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say it's mutual, right?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, they they trust you, you trust them, and it's like yeah, I know who to call, you know?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: What would you say is the most critical skill in in what you do as a as a consultant?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, i it's communication.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it goes back to that responsiveness.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, you could be the smartest engineer, tech mechanic.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the problem is if you're not communicating to your clients, and what we you have to understand the temperament of the business.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of these boards and and owners of buildings, they're very demanding people.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they rely on their management companies to obtain answers.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: If we're not giving them the answers and they're emailing us or they're calling us and we're not getting back to them, they're flying blind and it's making them look bad.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's it's responsiveness.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I do here is uh, you know, I'm like an email jockey.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I get over 300 emails a day.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they responded to within 24 hours, every one of them.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I don't have the answer, but I tell the client, hey, I I just I received your email.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking into this, I'll circle back within the next day or two.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: At least they at least they know there's someone on the other side that answered their email.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I tell all the employees here at VDA, if you don't have an answer, just tell the client you receive the email, you're looking into it.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Just make sure you follow up with them and give them the information that they're looking for.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think that's critical.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: And again, that's indirect sales.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the more responsive you are, the client feels that you are reliable and they're always going to come back to you.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that you're gonna get new business from that.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, if you had some advice for the industry overall, what would you say?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: The industry overall.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um again, education, um the the technology is rapidly evolving.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: So if the mechanics that are out there, and we see this all the time, the the these systems have become like iPhones.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: And the problem is we don't have real technical, we don't have um mechanical mechanics anymore.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you were able to walk in a room 30 years ago and actually see the problem on a controller and say that part's broken, let me fix it.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: I can put the car back in service.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Today it's microprocessor, it's false, and it leads you down an area or a rabbit hole that you can have five or six different components which are failing.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: And now you're you're just swapping boards out.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of this falls on the education between the controller manufacturers giving educational seminars on their systems and the mechanics wanting to learn about that.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because now, years ago, when you were on a given route, you had Otis controllers.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: That was the majority.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you go on a route, one route, you could have smart rise, motion, proprietary equipment, GAL, different versions of GAL, Thompson.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's very hard to understand every system.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's continuing education.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, is it a job or a career?
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: If it's a career, enroll in some of these classes to understand the different types of controllers and and the workabouts and how you work about the problems.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that that's really how you become successful.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Also, just basically, you know, I we spoke about this uh a while back is treating treating the buildings as if you live there.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Take pride in your work.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, don't leave a messy lobby area, don't leave greasy fingerprints on, you know, it's not okay just because you don't live there.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Treat the location as if you live there, take pride in your work.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know I said the mechanics will see that, but so will the buildings.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know, have you seen that change over the years at all?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we've seen some shoddy workmanship, and it's just because no one takes pride.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the type of mechanic has definitely changed over the last 30, 40 years.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they some of the mechanics I work with would they would not sign off or leave a job unless it was to their satisfaction.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: And when I mean their satisfaction, it was it was and they would do this on their own time, they wouldn't even put overtime in.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: But that's how much pride that they had.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Their work was their signature, and they wanted to make sure that it was 100%.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that that's sort of that's sort of fallen off a little bit.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something I think we need to get back, and that's all the trades.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've seen some carpenters, you could tell an excellent carpenter, and you could tell there's a carpet, some carpenters out there that you would not want doing your woodwork.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but again, it's it's lack of pride, and that that's something that that that goes noticed at every level.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: So um I guess you know, we're we're kind of wrapping up with our time here, but um if you were to, and this again, this may be a little bit repetitive, but if you were to to give advice to an individual coming out of high school, what what would you say to them if if they, you know, maybe they wanted to come into elevators, where would you point them?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um conversation would be has to have be had as to what do they really want to do.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: If you're really curious about elevators, are you looking to go into the field?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Are you looking to go into the business end of this?
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: I would start in the field first, see if you like it.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would not pause continuing education.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: I would try to get some type of degree at night.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I it it's a lot of work, but I do, I do know a lot of helpers that are in the industry right now.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: They're very curious about elevators.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: They came in with a pathway of becoming a helper, which they're doing now, but they're also going for an associate's degree at night in the city.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: So while they're in the city doing their day job, afterwards they go and they're trying to, it's going to take a little bit longer than two years, but they have something to fall back on.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: They're learning the elevators.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: And if they want to stay in, at least they have a business degree and they can proceed down the path of management.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Or they can actually stay in the field.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know one individual who now um he's totally switched.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: He was taking the business course just as a fallback.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: He's now stopped at, but he's going for electrical classes at night.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: He wants to become a master electrician.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: He wants to stay in the elevators.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: And he's so appreciative.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Thank you for guiding me down this road because I would have wasted four years going for something that I probably would have never used.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: At least now I understand that there was a trade out there for me.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm changing my career, I'm keeping my career path by changing my continuing education.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going for my electrical license.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's the younger ones that want to speak and they want to talk and they want to conversate.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, it's the ones that have been in the business to really get out there and talk to these and guide the the younger ones and sort of help them and guide them into making the right decisions.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because right now, everyone's like, you know, you got to go to college for the experience.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what is that experience?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have to look.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's short term, it's only four years.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: But when you get out of college, are you going to be able to, one, you're gonna have hefty loans in some cases, and are you really gonna be doing what you like?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, if you love what you do, it's not a job.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, don't waste the four years.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's even though it's a short window, it's still a long time, but get in and figure out what you want to do, whether it's a trade or not, but still go for the continuum education to back up that trade if you want to go for it.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I do know a lot of people who, you know, they're graduate from college and and you know, aren't aren't doing anything with with what they learned.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: And yet, to your point, with a little bit of mentorship, a little bit of guidance, a little bit of you know, conversation around, you know, what do you really want?
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, it could probably save some people a lot of time.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: Good friend of mine, he's uh went to college and graduated, uh psychologist.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: He's a longshoreman.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, go figure, you know, go figure.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's what happens, you know, it happens a lot, it happens often.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: And that's part of the, I guess, I guess back to education.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: It education of life, you know, will throw curves at you, right?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: And and I'm not doing exactly what I went to to college for the first time, and yet it's all good, it works out.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, it does.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Mike, I appreciate you being here.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: Is there anything you wanted to say as we wrap up?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, just uh, you know, I don't know if you're gonna put any contact info, but uh anyone coming into the industry or any type of uh recruitment uh avenues that we could go down.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: If anyone wants to reach out to me, I'm always here to help, um, whether it's on the client side, uh elevator side.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like I said, I'm very big into the recruitment and trying to draw uh younger talent into the business.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, any union reps out there that want to start some type of recruitment program, they should really be focused on engineering and electrical schools and try to get some good talent into the business because it's it's something that we're lacking.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's definitely a huge need for that.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: And elevators and escalators, it's just an untapped market.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: Huge opportunity, uh, great, great paying opportunities.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, and I say this all the time to people who who get in kind of ground floor, you know like like you, you know, as a as a helper.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you can write your ticket so many different ways.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: If you just get in, learn the business, you can go anywhere you want.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to work and you put those things in motion, you can write your own ticket.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: You're absolutely right.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: Mike, thank you so much for being with me today.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate it.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Matt, thank you for the opportunity.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: You bet.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to you soon.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for listening to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the All Red Group, a leader in elevator industry recruiting.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: You can check us out online at elevatorcareers.net.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_03: Please subscribe, and until next time, stay safe.