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Tommy and Krissi Green: How to End Human Trafficking · The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine

• 0:29
  Speaker 1: We've got none other than Christy Green. And you know,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: unfortunately next to her is Tommy Green.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't know who invited that guy on
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: the podcast, but this is the start of the show.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: Tonight is going to be Christy Green.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Uh. You know, I was just joking with her before
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: we started recording. Uh, Tommy, whenever we've had you on
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: the podcast, I feel like you've talked.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: About Christy Green more than you've ever even.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Talked about like sleeping Giant. So like, clearly, clearly you
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: love this woman so much. And the other the other
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: thing is every time you mentioned her name, it's not
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: just Chrissy, it's Chrissy Green, as if like her first
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: name is two first names, where it's Chrissy Green. I
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: I love that, like I I love that. It's almost
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: like you have your own personal nickname for your wife,
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: which you know it's it's just it's like another little
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: testament of like how close you are, Like I mean,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: it's just like it's so great.
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: I love it.
• 1:28
  Speaker 5: It's the version of marking your territory. I think it's just.
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there it is mine, woman, You're mine. I really
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: like her. That's good. Thank you very much. For having us.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: We're big fans. Well, the reason why Christy Green is
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: the star.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Of the show today is, uh, you've got a new
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: book coming out, uh that has come out, and we're
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: just excited to chat about this book. Uh. Timmy reached
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: out to us a little while back and was like, hey,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Christy Green's got book comes out.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: We need to we need to promote this.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: And we're like one hundred percent, like, we've got to
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: get Christy Green on the podcast, like she's she's the
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: star of the show. And mind you the other thing
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: I gotta mention too, Colin, you probably know this. So
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: we put your episode out like, uh, maybe like a
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: year and a half ago now, Tommy, when we last
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: chatted before you guys played Furnace Fast. We like did
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: a whole Furness Fast episode. We put that out on
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: We put that out on YouTube. It is by far
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: our most watched YouTube video by far, like not even
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: like the second place one is probably like three times
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: less view. Why don't I don't know that you like,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: clearly people care about what you have to say about
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: it looks.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Well I would agree, thank you.
• 2:49
  Speaker 5: Yes, I'm playing to the crowd.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: If if if it's his dashing good looks. We're gonna
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: get We're gonna go viral then, because now we got
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Christy Green on the podcast You.
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: Look so good? No, that's wild. Well, I hope maybe
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: it was, like was it the faith stuff?
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: I don't think it. I don't really want Maybe you
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: know what we did.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: We did talk a lot about like kind of like
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: the Orthodoxy stuff, So maybe maybe maybe that was part
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: of it.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: I don't know, but like people, people were all into it.
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: I hope it's great for you guys.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: So anyway, so we've just we're I mean, we're really
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: struggling for numbers right now, so we're like we got
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: to get Tommy, even if that means that we have
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: to bring Chrissy Green on the podcast.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: We really need to tell me back on the podcast.
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: Is so well, let's dive right into the book.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Christy Green, tell us tell us about the book,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: like what what made you?
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah? So yeah, tell us the title. Just tell us
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: all about it.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Uh, many More like Me is the title of my book.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: It's available on Amazon and shortly we should have the
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Kindle in audible out there as well. But it's a memoir,
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: so it's my it's really nice story of the first
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: trafficking survivor that we worked with years ago. Now, it
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: took me quite a bit of time to actually like
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: sit down and write the book. Tommy's currently writing his
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: book about his big run in twenty eighteen, and that
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: was back he did the run from the top of
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Utah to the bottom in an effort to gain traction
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: for our non nonprofit organization that we started called Run
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Against Traffic. And I was going to write that book,
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: and that was in twenty eighteen, and so here we are,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: in the beautiful delays of life that it's finally here
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: and so it's yeah, so we got hit up. Tommy
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: was doing a YouTube channel and we got hit up
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: by a young girl in Europe that needed help. She
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: took us up on that offer. At the end, we'd
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: always say, like, you know, if you need prayer or anything,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: let us know. And so she hit us up and
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: I started emailing with her, and I really thought that
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: we were going to just kind of be a little
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: support from far away for this young girl that her
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: parents seemed like they were fighting a lot. There was
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: like a lot of like I was like, oh, her
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: parents are going to get divorced, how do we like
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: help support her? And then and then over it just
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: kept going and these amazing things happened, and not amazing
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: in a good way. And when she ended up in
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: a what would she called like an orphanage is like
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: such a hard harsh word, but it was like in
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: an organization that works with at risk youth and they
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: have to live there. And then her mom actually kidnapped
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: her out of that organization, that safe house. She yeah,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: she got her and traded her at a brothel in
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: downtown Paris and at a bar that you know, has
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: other services, and so she was literally trafficked. And so
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: it was like the wildest thing because I thought, oh
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: my gosh, like how does this young, beautiful, affluent girl
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: goes from this wealthy family into the life that she's had,
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: that she suffered so much, and she was so broken
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: in that place of like I just don't understand, Like
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: I don't understand how my mom it's my mom, you know.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: And so so we I've worked, I worked close with
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: the organization and then we I worked with her and
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: trying to do the best to try to resource and
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: then to realize that the organization itself was has various
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: levels of abuse and was abusing her and reached out
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: with mostly Tommy's network and connection and and so it
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: was like a gal down in Colombia that was helping
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: us with somebody in the south of France that actually
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: ended up, you know, doing a rescue mission in the
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: middle of the night and extracting her and they ended
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: up closing down the entire safehouse that they were they're at,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: and and so it's just like my journey because all
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: of this was like in this world of emails and
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: chat and you know, Google chats and and that sort
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: of thing. And so yeah, so I actually sat down
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: and told the story and her story, which was like
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: such a powerful right, I don't know, like she's such
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: a beautiful soul, and really it's like it's a sad
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: story because she doesn't make it at the end. And
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: so it's like, uh, I felt like I was such
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: an honor and a privilege to actually witness her story.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: And she asked us at the end, she said, you know,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: I know that I was loved, and I know that
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: I had family, and Tommy, you have to keep sharing
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: because there's many more like me. And and that is
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: one of those conversations that and relationships that. It was
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: like really only a year span of time that altered
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: and changed our life so drastically because we started we
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: carried that story because I mean, I'm like, I was
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: so heartbroken when it all like kind of all of
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: a sudden, it was like how is this to end?
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: And like how do we like, where do we go
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: from here? And what do we do? And we just
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: didn't know. We just like pried about it and tried to,
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: you know, live our life and then we're like this,
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: there's this whole world out there. And then it was
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: probably what six seven months later, I got an email
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: from just a random email that said, you know, hey,
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: my name is you know so and so. And many
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: months ago I was in a I was in a
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: bar with Claire and she said if I ever needed
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: needed help that I could contact her mom and she
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: gave me your email and I hope that this works
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: by And I was like blown away by that because
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh my gosh, this is real because
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: I'm here, I'm thinking this is how is this even real?
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: Like this can't be somebody's life. And so I started
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: working with her all the way through like twenty twenty
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: and her story was like much much messlier because she
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: grew up in the system and she had been in
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: that bar off and on for the majority of her
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: teenage life. So it was like, Okay, this is real.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: And then to learn and to be in that place
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: of like, oh my gosh, how are we in the
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: same situation? We have no new numbers to call, like,
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: and I can't send her to the you know, like
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: we can't go the same process because it's so messy.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: And and so that's that's really the birth of Run
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Against Traffic and we're like we have to find there's
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: this huge gap between the rescue and like extraction of like, hey,
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: this is your situation, right, And especially with the second survivor,
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: it's like, oh, she would she just went back because
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: that's that was the only life that she knew. So
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: then it's like, okay, there's not who do we call?
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: Where does she go to actually learn skills? Because she's
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: you know, had like a third or fourth grade education,
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: you know, cause she never went to school. She didn't
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: have to. So it's like, you know, how do you
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: like go, oh, there's a different life possible, and we
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: can help resource and then to realize that this is
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: severely underfunded, and so we thought, let's do this, let's start,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: let's try to close the gap. And for people like
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: us that are like, oh my gosh, this story, like
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: I'm impacted. I didn't even know that this was a thing.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that human trafficking was. And I know
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: that in the last years it's gotten more, more traction
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: and more spotlight. I guess on it. But most of
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: us are like, we go like, Okay, I know it now,
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: but now what do I do? How do I fix?
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: How do I be part of the solution? And it's
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: so scary and it's so messy, and you know, and
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: there's something real sexy about like, oh, I do this
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: covert operation and I jump in and I rescue these
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: girls and like whatever. We just met a guy the
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: other night that it's like that was what he that's
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: what he does, and he's ex military and it's like
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: it's so awesome, that's so amazing. And he told us
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: a story about he's he rescued the same girl three
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: times out of a shipping container.
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: And he didn't get a fourth because she died.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she didn't make it.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: So is it's generally, not like law enforcement that's like
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: doing these rescue missions. Like it's people that are just
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: like like almost like hired or this.
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: Is why it's why it's tricky, and there's a thin
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: line like to even talk about it. But it's like
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: you have dudes that are like security forces or ex military.
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: They're like, no, I've seen it, it's wrong. Who's going
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: to do anything about it? And the reality is they're
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: not doing They're not doing anything here in the US
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: because the government doesn't like vigilante justice, but overseas, it's
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: like they'll figure out ways to get to these people.
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: And so that's what's interesting is like you go to
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: Cambodia on a Christian mission, you ride through Cambodia, there's
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: five girls, yeah, out in front of a bar, and
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: you just pick one. You can travel to those parts
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: of Asia for sex with children, and it's just like
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: part of the culture is like you can go be
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: a sex buyer in other parts of the world. And
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: that makes sense because we go, Wow, that's what it
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: looks like internationally in the US in terms of like
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: the sex trafficking part of it, not the labor trafficking
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: or you know, coercion or fraud or you know, people
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: that don't have their papers and they're being exploited for
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: really cheap labor. Like that's a huge percentage. But in
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: the sex trafficking world in the US, a lot of
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: times it's family and friends that are trafficking people. So
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: it's not out in the street in the bars. It's
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: they're using people for sex and bringing them home at night.
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: And so familial trafficking is like a huge deal. Here
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: it looks different than Thailand or Cambodia, you know what
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: I mean. It's like it just looks different here than
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: it does somewhere else. And so some of the sensational
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: looking that's not real. That's that's just not it's like
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: it's played up. It's not. It's way grosser than that.
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: And that's where we were just like, no, it's like
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: really cool to be like g I Joe, But ninety
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: percent of them are going right back if they don't
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: have good aftercare, and that takes a lot. We got
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: to help there because I don't know, you know, that's
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: a long term solution. We got to figure that out.
• 13:14
  Speaker 6: So you're saying that it's it's like a covert operation uh.
• 13:18
  Speaker 6: For like the traffic its itself, it's so much more
• 13:21
  Speaker 6: under the surface than like what you'd seen like Cambodia
• 13:24
  Speaker 6: or something like that. And on top of that, because
• 13:27
  Speaker 6: the legal waters in America are so muddy when it
• 13:31
  Speaker 6: comes to like you know, family rights and stuff like that,
• 13:34
  Speaker 6: you know, it creates a situation where there really isn't
• 13:37
  Speaker 6: a great u do you how do you put it?
• 13:41
  Speaker 6: A great solution to it?
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 13:42
  Speaker 6: And it's it's almost like that that noddle part is
• 13:45
  Speaker 6: what you're is what we're missing, and that's what runs
• 13:48
  Speaker 6: lim space dog.
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: That's like it's that weird that's where we occupy it,
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: and that's it's strange. It's like if you could take
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: like I work as a hospice chaplain part time with
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: Chaydon right from Holy Name, Like we both are hospice chaplains.
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: You go to these like adult assisted living facilities for
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: people that are like maybe dementia, memory care, hospice, or
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: at the end of their life. You walk into those spaces,
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: it's like it's a facility that is partially covered maybe
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: by Medicaid or insurance or whatever, but it's like it
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: is a secure space for these people that can't take
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: care of themselves. So mix that with a rehab, with
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: a foster care, with the freedom to leave all at
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: the same time. Like, I don't know what that system
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: is because it's like that's a different kind of solution.
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: But it's happening in every I would lay a five
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: dollar bet it's happening in nearly every It's happening in
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: every major city for sure. But it's happening everywhere. And
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: that's the thing is, it's that thin line between I
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: was a sixteen year old girl. I got an older boyfriend.
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: We would just smoke weed together and hang out too.
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: Then we graduated to harder off. He started taking videos
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: of us making love sending it to his friends. Now
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: he's extorting me to sleep with all of his friends.
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: And I'm nineteen and I'm hooked on drugs. So if
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: I get busted by the cops, I'm a prostitute and
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: I'm a criminal. I'm not the victim of coercion. It's
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: like a weird line, man here, It's it's tricky.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it does seem like and I've heard this before
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: around like even some of the like prostitution laws in
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: the US where like it the laws themselves almost make
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: it extremely difficult for people to get out of the
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: industry because they themselves can get busted, and they probably
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: get busted more than like the pimps, the people who
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: are doing the trafficking or extortion totally and it almost
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: makes it like where the laws themselves are like keeping
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: people in these like really obusive and toxic situations.
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: You should There's a and I would say, because we
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: stay like we stay out of a lot of it
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: on purpose because it's so crazy. We're like, what are
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: we gonna do. We're gonna rally people to the car,
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: We're gonna help raise funds, and then we'll get funds
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: to the best places we can find it. There's a
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: lady who's really good friends with b that with Brian
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: that we were talking about, and she does a ministry
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: in Las Vegas and she's formerly a part of that world.
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: She would be a good person to talk to about
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: what that life is. And she's got very she's got
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: a hot take on all of it because she sees it.
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: So yeah, anyways, so that's that's the aftercare space was
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: the space that we went. We watched a kid get
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: seemingly out of the blast zone, and it was it
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: was it sucked. It sucked trying to put a broken
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: life back together again, and we didn't have enough help.
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: And I thought, well, it's happening there, It's definitely happening here,
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: and most people don't even believe it's happening here. So
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: that's going to be the long road for Run Against
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: Traffic is we just want to help support aftercare because
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: there's plenty of people that are gonna want to kick
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: indoors and rescue people or whatever that is. I want
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: them to get their life back together long term. It
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: takes a long time, so you.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: Know, yeah, go ahead.
• 17:00
  Speaker 6: I think I think one of the things that oftentimes
• 17:02
  Speaker 6: gets missed is that labor trafficking that you're talking about,
• 17:05
  Speaker 6: especially with children. I know in the area that I live,
• 17:09
  Speaker 6: I'm a teacher by day. I have I know I.
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: Have students that have been labor trafficked.
• 17:15
  Speaker 6: But I know where are you at in South Dakota,
• 17:18
  Speaker 6: So we have a lot of we have a woweries
• 17:19
  Speaker 6: and things like that that definitely play with the boundaries
• 17:23
  Speaker 6: of what is acceptable and that's totally right stuff.
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: Not not to mention that.
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: I grew up grew up in San Muelquan County, like
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: in Stockton and California, and you have all the like
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: migrant farm workers and all the day workers that would
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: come through and kids at my school, and it was like,
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: that's a bigger percentage. That's the thing that's crazy is
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: is all of these issues everyone's fighting about. It's like
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: the human lives that are mostly impacted worldwide, Labor trafficking
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: is way more of a percentage of human trafficking than
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: sex trafficking is. And I think that there's yeah, yeah, worldwide.
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: Then what were you looking at when.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: I was looking at some statistics and it yeah, I
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: mean it's pretty close, but you.
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: Know, is it? I think, yeah, I thought it was
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: way lopsided, and I could be wrong.
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: Maybe in the US it's way more like labor.
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: Well yeah, just like in general, it's like labor trafficking
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: is easier to exploit I think in a lot of
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: ways then, but I'm kind of grateful. I got to say.
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: This is like a side note. Have you been seeing
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: any of the funny like Hulu and Netflix documentaries about
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: all these people getting scammed and like how crazy? It's
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: like that's what like coersion looks like like the there's
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: like an HBO documentary about Chris Brown, the like musician
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: and what he's done to people, and like that level
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: the levers of power and influence and what they're able
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: to get away with. And it's like, I'm grateful because
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: people can watch it and go, how does that happen?
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: And it's like that's coercion. That's someone with more power
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: using someone with less power, and that's it's not power
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: itself that's bad. But it's like, can you see it?
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: These are normal people and they end up in these
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: horrible situations. That's how it happens all the time, and
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: it's not as crazy as you think when you put
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: it into context of like people looking for something. And
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: so anyways, I was there the other day, So yeah, sorry, I.
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: Think you're right on it.
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: Christy's book. Yeah sorry, so that.
• 19:16
  Speaker 6: Was like Christy, I think the part that I love
• 19:18
  Speaker 6: so much is that you're obviously focusing on the human
• 19:20
  Speaker 6: aspect of this. I mean, we could talk about the
• 19:21
  Speaker 6: legal ratifications and the statistics and all that stuff, but
• 19:24
  Speaker 6: the human aspect is really the part that we're all
• 19:27
  Speaker 6: in this for, right, that we want to draw attention
• 19:30
  Speaker 6: to this because that is that's what's most precious and
• 19:34
  Speaker 6: that's what needs protecting.
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm curious.
• 19:40
  Speaker 6: How how has the response been to more of that
• 19:44
  Speaker 6: human aspect of the human trafficking.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'll tell you something. I was surprised, which I
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: know because I enjoy reading. But I have had people
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: that read the back, like to read the story right,
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: and they know me, maybe personally, and they're like, oh,
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: I think that's awesome, and then they read the story
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: like on the back and then they're like, oh, no,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: I can't read that because it's like it's like it's
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: too I don't know, like maybe it brings something up right,
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: like which I know. Like I've had friends that like
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: knew the story, they were part of the story, they
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: remember me during that time, and then to read it again.
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: I have one friend that she was like, I know
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: that I'm waiting. I'm hesitating because I know the story
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: and I'm so scared to actually relive it because I think,
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: you know, one of the things that we're big proponents
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: of the connection codes. So and if you look it
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: up connections, the connection codes with doctor Glenn.
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: And hey, he'd be an interesting guy. You guys talked
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: to you. He is a licensed family and family therapist.
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: We also a marriage and family therapist in Nashville, but
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: he's also a licensed sexologist and he works with everyone
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: and he's wild. So him and his wife and Mary
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: for a really long time, and he wrote a book
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: about the way the science of human connection, how our
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: brains wire together when we share emotion and all the
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: science of the connection codes. He's like, yeah, that's just
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: how it works anyway, book and Connect. We worked with
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: them for them for a while and just been friends
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: with them now for probably five five years, six years
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: something like that. He helped us a lot when we
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: were going through the all the miscarriages and like the
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: death and stuff like that. It was really nice to
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: just have a dude be there to hear us and
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: help us stay emotionally connected. And then because of like
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: if you're emotionally connected on a deep level, the natural
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: overflow in a in a partnered pair is that your
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: trust level goes up and you're probably going to experience
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: better sexual connection and stuff too. So they call it
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: dynamics sexual connection. And they're wild. They're like wild, so
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: super cool. It's so really fun.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: But I think in when we started working with them
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: and kind of learning this, I mean all the science
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: and all this. It's like really brilliant. One of the
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: things that we learned was that what happened so that
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: you know, somebody goes like they get sad, right and
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: they're like in tears. And I think most people don't
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: realize that our nature is to connect and to empathize
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: and to actually get in like so like when somebody
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: else is sad, it actually brings up our own sadness,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: you know, and we try to get out of it.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: So the first thing we do is like, oh, don't cry,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: don't cry, like it's not that bad. Let's let's look
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: at the positive. Let's just do like whatever, as opposed
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: to actually holding space for the sorrow and and recognizing
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: when it because it's like we love to share joy, right,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: like you just like that.
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: Why we all like cocaine.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: But it's like Black Sheep podcast, So what the ex
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: is in Death Star Wars?
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: Is it like some sort of cocaine reference X That's
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: like my.
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: New band is actually what that is?
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Forgive me you don't have to be like I'm just
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: saying like it's easy to like connect there, and it's
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: hard because when there's sorrow, it doesn't feel good in
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: the same way, and so we try to escape it.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: And I think that's what I've been surprised by, and
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: that people don't want to they don't want to engage
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: with that reality. And and I tried to do my
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: best in giving hope at the end of like ways
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: to actually like, you know, because I have read books
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: where I'm like, oh, I hope they turn it around
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: real soon because I don't know what to do.
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: John Steinbacker, You're like, God, everyone dies and.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: At the end and you're like, this is I don't
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: know what to do with this now because now it's
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: like everything tad.
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: Hearts way, I think I can.
• 23:53
  Speaker 6: I can make that analogy is like it's like, well,
• 23:56
  Speaker 6: watch Schindler's List, right, Schindler's List.
• 23:59
  Speaker 5: It is it is.
• 24:01
  Speaker 6: It's it's the movie you have to see, but you
• 24:03
  Speaker 6: only really want to see it once. Yeah, one time,
• 24:07
  Speaker 6: because anything more than that, you're like, God, do I
• 24:09
  Speaker 6: have to do I have to feel these things again.
• 24:13
  Speaker 7: You know?
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: Or the passion passion in Christ same one.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: That's also it's like similar to hanging out with Cullens.
• 24:20
  Speaker 6: It is similar to you gotta do it once, but
• 24:23
  Speaker 6: just only do it once.
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: So it's interesting. I mean, that's an interesting space to
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: try to occupy. I would say this as like a counterpoint.
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: What I've heard from people is the book is so
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: easy to read that everyone is like burning through it.
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: Like even my friends that are like not Jesus, folks
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: are like, bro, I like that it was like three four.
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: I just like couldn't put it down. And then they're
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: thinking of it like true crime. So they just got
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: questions like how did that go and like what did
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: you so anyways, So that's what I'm getting from people's like,
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: the book is super good and it's really easy to read,
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: but it is, like you're saying, it's like it's it's
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: a heavy subject.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: It's not as much like it's not a time commitment.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: That's what I try to tell people. It doesn't take
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: you weeks to get through it. It's like a day,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: day or two read. But it is an emotional there's.
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: An investment the hopefully it does something, which is the point.
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: I I appreciate that you like bring up actually this
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: true crime connection, because you know, when we think of
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: like true crime, we often think about these like very
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: sensational stories of like serial killers, right but probably maybe
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: the most common form of true crime that's happening right
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: now is trafficking, and in terms of like serious crime,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: it's probably some of the like the most common form of.
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: Crime that's happening.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: And so I actually like bring like I like that
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: you bring this up as sort of like four people
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: that like maybe come at this from that lens of
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: like they really care about true crime, Like it's actually
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: really important for them to recognize this as like maybe
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: the most common form of true crime that's actually happening
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: right now. And so like you like you know, like
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: the title of the book, many more like us, Like
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: there are so many of these stories, and so what
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: it is does is it focuses in on one story
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: while illuminating that this is like a really serious thing
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: that's happening all around us right now.
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, I'm glad you said that. Yeah, we met
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: with a We met with one of the homieson It's
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: been interesting, like talking we had people pray for us
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: like in the former you know world that we were
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: a part of, and everyone before the book was even
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: out was just like I could see this story translating
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: into a bunch of other areas in media, and then
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: we got hit up by a homie that was like,
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: I want to talk about buying the rights to the
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: book to make it like a film. And we were like, huh,
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: that's cool. That'd be interesting. And then we talked with
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: the dude and he said the same. He was like,
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: it would be very interesting to turn this into Like
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: you guys go on the journey of actually solving some
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: of the holes, like some of the stuff that you
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: couldn't get answers and some of the things that they
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: kept you out of. Like we at a certain point
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: in time when everything started going haywire, we were kind
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: of cut out of communication, not with her and not
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: with other people in the network, but we were opposed
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: by the people that were hurting her. And then they
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: even after she passed, if I would go to talk somewhere,
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: all of a sudden, we'd start getting threats from these people,
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: like it was wild. And so the Attorney General's office
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: in Utah helped us an issue to cease and assist
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: to like one of them. And so it was this
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: whole thing that happened, which is part of why it
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: took so long, because it sucks to be in so
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: much pain and then feel like this thing that really
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: affected us, like we were opposed, like we were getting
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: called liars by the liars, and it was like, what
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: is going on? Like if it was such a mind
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: beleep that, I was like, and I can deal with
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: it because I'm used to getting screamed at by morons
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: or threat and anyway. But Chrissy Green is like she's
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: a sweet human and she's like, you're You're bad like that,
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: what are you doing? Like this is.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Hard, You're a liar, You're lying, You're actually lying. You
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: did it. I remember you did it to her. I
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: remember all of that, and now you're doing it to me.
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: It was like that Kevin hartbit where he talks about
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: finding that girl in his trunk. Yeah, and he like
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: opens it up and she like was his girlfriend fighting
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: with him, and he's like, I saw her, and I
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: saw her, see me see her. She got out of
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: my trunk and ran home and I got home and
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: I was like, she's just making food like nothing happened,
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: and I'm like, I saw you, see me, see you.
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: It's just how are you lying to me? Like this
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: is crazy? So anyways, that was part of why the
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: delay was like it was already painful enough and then
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: it felt like if we tried to tell the story,
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: all hell would break loose again. And it wasn't until
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: we had kind of some help in America dun duh
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: du anyways, and they were like stop and so then
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: it was like we could finally breathe. But it was
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: real weird, man, very very strange, you know, kind of
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: I don't know, you.
• 29:06
  Speaker 6: Know, you did talk about how like people have approached
• 29:08
  Speaker 6: you about different kinds of media that this would probably
• 29:12
  Speaker 6: work really well in And I think the book is
• 29:15
  Speaker 6: is obviously the great start, because thats where're gonna get
• 29:17
  Speaker 6: the most amount of detail. But my wife introduced me
• 29:21
  Speaker 6: to a channel on YouTube called Soft White Underbelly, which which.
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: Does, Oh, that's a great channel. That's such a.
• 29:28
  Speaker 6: There's a lot of people on there who have been
• 29:30
  Speaker 6: you know, sex trafficked and labor trafficked and all sorts
• 29:33
  Speaker 6: of other different kinds of like things that aren't usually
• 29:37
  Speaker 6: talked about at an normal basis. It's becoming kind of
• 29:40
  Speaker 6: a pretty big sensation of a channel. And I think,
• 29:43
  Speaker 6: will you send us the link because I listen. I mean,
• 29:46
  Speaker 6: I think it's the kind of thing that you know,
• 29:49
  Speaker 6: a lot of times it's it's people telling their story,
• 29:51
  Speaker 6: but there's not always like this, like hey, there is
• 29:53
  Speaker 6: an option here to like to make that middleman part
• 29:59
  Speaker 6: of the problem, you know, fixed.
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: At least, like what that's cool I should.
• 30:04
  Speaker 5: Say with runn against traffic?
• 30:06
  Speaker 6: So yeah, I know I didn't know what that was.
• 30:08
  Speaker 6: That's cool, that's awesome, a cool deal. So that might
• 30:11
  Speaker 6: be a might be an optional So just thinking of it.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one thing that comes to mind, and uh, this
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: might be a little bit of like it might feel
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: like not. I don't mean it to be like an
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: accusatory question because it's not at all. But one of
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: the things that uh, I like in terms of my
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: reflection around a lot of the conversation that's happened around
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: like trafficking over the last number of years is like
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: I remember, and I grew up. I think I've told
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Tommy this, Like I grew up in the like conservative
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: evangelical world in South Dakota, and that like the conversation
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: around trafficking never came up that like growing up in
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: the two thousands tens, nobody ever talked about it. Now
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, like I'm even like when I
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: go back home and my parents are like you know,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: big conservative evangelic kind of people still, and all of
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: a sudden, like the church like that, these churches in
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: that world like they're starting to talk about trafficking, which
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: I think is great, but I'm like wondering, like why
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, now is this like becoming something
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: that's like on their minds? And again, like this this
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: is not to say like you all are doing this.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying like part of my thinking around or
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: my reflections on this is maybe some of the reason
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: why is because there is this like sort of sensationalism
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: in that world around this sex trafficking part.
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: And part of the.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Reason why there's such sensationalism or sensationalism around the sex
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: trafficking part of human trafficking and why they even care
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: about any of this now is because like obviously in
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: that conservative evangelical world, it's all about like, don't have
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: sex toal you're married and all of that, and so
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: there's so much it's all about like we have to
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: like make sure that these young women are remaining pure,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: and we're trying to create, like you know, we're trying
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: to like preserve that as much as we can in
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: the middle, you know, And so in my mind, that's
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: the only reason why they care about that. Now there
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: might be really maybe maybe that's not the case, right,
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Like that could do. That's just my own reflection on
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: but I'm just curious, like if that's something that you
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: all have like experienced around like this whole conversation around
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: sex traffic, I even care about it now.
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: No, it's wild. I'll say it like this, if it
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: was cool to hate, Well, here's the thing. There's capitalism
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: and then their sexuality, and if capitalism had the same
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: like almost like buzzwords on the right, it would be
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: louder on the right. So what I would submit to
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: you is, here's what sucks about that. Your reflection is
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: not inaccurate. What sucks is people are saying this is wicked,
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: it's not cool. It's really a violation of the dignity
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: of humanity. Because we care about faith. These are people
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: made in the image of God. This is so wicked, horrible,
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: But because they're Republicans, people on the left don't want
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: to hear it, so it becomes this rallying cry. We've
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: had people say they can't support us because conservatives care
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: about this issue. Wow, like literally said yes, they would
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: help us with a thing. And then enough people that
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: were more left leaning were like, that's a conservative thing.
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: And then I got the call like, hey, they don't
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: want to do it anymore. That's the problem with this,
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: like divide. It's not a bipartisan issue. But the problem
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: is that the conservative side of the aisle bangs the
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: drum super heavy on the sexuality and not on the
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: commodity of people. And the left is so about human
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: rights and also human freedoms that they're they're more likely
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: to advocate for unionizing sex workers, which is way problematic too.
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: But because they're down for freedom or what that is,
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: the right won't touch it. We can't have a dialogue
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: because now the it's a it's a republican issue to
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: care about. Everything's become political. It's not a movie.
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: It's like a movie that came out last Christmas time.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah that all that, Like conservatives got around what
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: what what what was that called?
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: Sound?
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: It's called the Sound of Freedom and it was by
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: the it was really put out by the former founder
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: of Operation Underground Railroad And yeah, you're right, it's like,
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: and who were the backers? Who are the people that
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: were banging that drummerly loud? It was a lot of
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: people on Fox News, And so the minute that happens,
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: the whole issue gets.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: But I think that like and even like the producers
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: of that movie were like, wait, wait, like that's not
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: where we kind of like stand on that, but they
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: ended up obviously again that got all the backers this thing,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: and then Fox News picks it up and then all
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: of a sudden it becomes this like political thing totally.
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: And I would say for us, like most of my
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: most of my friends here, they're liberal democratic people, most
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: of my family liberal democratic people. Most of the fans
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: of any of my are like more conservative Republican kids.
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: So what I would say is, like, here's what sucks
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: about that is the people that are going to help
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: us help people. That's who I'm going to rock with,
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: right And I feel really sad that, like because it
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: gets divided in the political world, which is really all
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: it is. Those talking points that you brought up to me.
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: It's like, that's because more people probably in the worlds
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: that resonate with you are willing to look at it
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: from that point of view, but like it's hard to
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: get a holistic view of the thing because it gets
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: divvied up into the teams, and so it's like I
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: don't care because Republican kids and Democratic kids get trafficked.
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: LGBTQ kids are massively at risk, especially homeless youth massively
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: at risk. But if I say human trafficking is a problem,
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: I'm treading on the like immigration line that the left
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: doesn't want to talk about or the right wants to
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: talk about too much, or it's like it's just this
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: minefield of like, hey man, people are getting rocked, can
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: we help them? It's like pick your team. So that's
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: the thing that sucks is you're not wrong. And I've
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: literally been turned down by people that love me because
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: they don't want to They don't want to be seen
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: supporting a potential issue from the right, which is just
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: bananas to me. So that's I've had more of that
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: on the left, people from the left saying no, than
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: people on the right saying okay, whatever you want. So
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: where am I naturally going to end up gravitating? Probably
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: where it's easier to actually get traction, which just sucks
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: because then I'm like hanging out with people that are
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: like and also I'm like, whoa, whoa, Okay, well I
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: was with you in the first half of that sentence
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: and then you just lost me.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: You had me in the first half. Well, Colin. It
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: reminds me like sometime.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: I think it was this summer we Colin and I
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: were waiting to get a tattoo together and You're just
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: going to bring a coffee shop and then this guy
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: like this guy was like talking with us whatever, we're
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: chit chatting, you know. Again, we're waiting for a tattoo,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: so we've got some time, and he like talks about
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: how he in South Dakota is working on trafficking yea,
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: but he's coming from it from a very left perspective.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Like it became very obvious both that Colin and I
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: like he's thinking about this as like a labor issue,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: so he's definitely thinking of it from like more of
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: a leftist kind of perspective. And I was like, oh,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: like that's really interesting because I you're you're right, Like
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: the only people that I'm right right for the most part,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: hearing talking about trafficking are from people from the mostly
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: on the right, and so it was really interesting, like,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: oh wait, there's actually like maybe like a left position
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: to take where you actually really give a shit and
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: care about these people too, so that like that is
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: a possibility, but you're you're right that I think in
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: terms of just the general discourse of it, probably more
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: people on the right like are really talking about it
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: right now, and I just find it really interesting of
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: like what are the reasons why?
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: So anyway, that's so that's why I like that Chrissy
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: Green and I like that you brought up the connection
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: codes because it's important for probably me and Chrissy when
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: we talk about this with people, is like we like
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: we're super like we're Orthodox Christians, so you can you
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: could like say, oh, we play our own like religious
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: party line or whatever, but that's like our personal business
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: for our spirituality. But we're like super trying to be
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: sex positive for people. We'd rather have people express who
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: they are than be controlled and manipulated regardless, So like
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: how do you model for people? Like I don't care
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: about the sexuality part, that's not the heavy thing for me.
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: What are you doing to people's lives and minds? Like,
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: let's get through the like gnarly sex talk for a second.
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: This is really messed up, and there's a soul thing
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: at play in the buyers and in the sellers because
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: I've had in my spaces, the sleeping giant spaces. I've
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: had multiple men at Christian festivals come up to me
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: and say they struggle and they use prostitutes. I don't.
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: I don't hang out a bunch of like secular shows
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: where people are saying that to me. But I know
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: that's true, and I got homies to do it. That's fine.
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: But like I've heard just as much from Christian dudes
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: that are struggling with sexual issues like that's fine, Like
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: that's just people stuff. So if I could keep it
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: with the people, I would feel like maybe we might
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: be able to have an honest conversation because the people
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: that I know would say, let me, let me shoot
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: holes in the legalized sex work camp, and then people
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: on the left would be like, well, let me shoot
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: holes in part of that. Maybe we could get somewhere.
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: But because it's like we're not even allowed to talk
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: about it because then you look like a right winger
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: and you look like a lib tard, or it's like
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: it doesn't matter, like it just gets all crazy. So
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: that's that's what I'd submit to you guys, is like
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: I care about the people gay, straight, black, white, rich, poor,
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: you know, documented, undocumented, Like everyone is at risk. And
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: what I've experienced is in the trafficking world because it's
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: people's souls, anyone can get it. And that is like
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: a So if we're gonna divvy it up, it's like
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: we're gonna be ineffective. Right, A house divided, it's not
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: gonna work. So that's my that's my thought. Like reflecting
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: back on that is like I think the right is
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: interested in talking about it because it plays to their issues.
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: But I also think that Christian people are more apt
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: to go. I don't find just the dignity of humans
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: as just humans. We have a different, like uh distinction
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: about what humans are, and so we take a high
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: issue with it. That's the altruistic version of it. Or
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: at least it gives them a whole lot of stuff
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: it should, right, but it gives them a whole lot
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: of crap to talk about. So let's divvy that out
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: and say no politics, Christian should really care. I hope
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: everybody else does. My experience is everyone wants to what
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: sucks is when they step into these political land minds
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: and then they have to shut down everyone should care,
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: because everyone should care, and everyone should have the right
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: to care to whatever degree they want. The political landscape
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: and the divisive landscape is partly what ruins the conversation
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: around it all. Like we all like each other and
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: there's multiple conversations and perspectives happening right now. That's what's
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: cool about this issue is like it will bring up
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: your issues, yeah, for sure, And that's probably why people
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: don't want to read it.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: That's probably why people don't want to read it.
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: It's hard. It's like high stakes, you know, like.
• 41:27
  Speaker 6: When when would you say the first time that you
• 41:30
  Speaker 6: recognize that human trafficking was actually a real thing going on,
• 41:35
  Speaker 6: not actually not actually that covert, but it does happen.
• 41:40
  Speaker 6: I remember, this is a weird thing to think of,
• 41:43
  Speaker 6: but like first time I actually realized, oh, this is a.
• 41:46
  Speaker 5: Thing that happens is from the movie Taken, which is.
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: Most people you think, so I think I.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: Think a lot. I think that's what like even to
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: speak with what you were seeing in where it's like
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: when when does this become now it's a thing?
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: And I think that Taken was such a huge even
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: though it was like it's a very Hollywood like, right story,
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: hollywoodized story, right, but but it was like that that
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: was the first time like going like oh, like where
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: people can see it, and then it's like, oh, and
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: that's what people a lot of times reference when it's
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: like when you bring up human trafficking. I think in
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: the last few years, as we've gone where it's like
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: because the reality is that it's not new. It's been
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: around forever, you know, like as long as humans have
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: been around. This kind of like manipulation or slavery really
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: is it has been a part and so it's like
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: so then then you know you have taken. And then
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: you start having like as stuff comes out and there's
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: more documentaries and there's things of the like people like right,
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: the influx of docuseries and like people want to see
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: these true crime, real life stories, and we're fascinated by
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: how people are taken captives, like mentally, like the mind
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: game of it all. We find it so right because
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: you're like, who's the one guy that had a crappy
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: little car and got all the people and they killed
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: them all, like in the Little Bug you know, like
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: you're like said, I can't remember, right, and you're like
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: looking at this guy and you're like yeah, yeah, yeah, right,
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: and you're like, oh, this guy like how many women?
• 43:23
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: And we're all like and we're drawn into this like
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: fantasy world of like how has that even happened? And
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: then to realize, like if if you've ever you know,
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: had a friend that gets into or a family member
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: that gets involved in like a narcissistic relationship where you're
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: like watching them lose themselves, right, I mean I think
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: we all have like a touch of that somewhere where
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: we go like I don't know if this guy is
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: really good for you or this girl, right, Like there's
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: some head games going on and it's so hard to see.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: But then in this influx of like you know, listening
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: to women and the me too movement and where it's
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: like all sudden, it's like this has been part of
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: our culture that has made it okay. And that's not
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: even to mention the immigration and that because I remember
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: we were in Salt Lake being at a restaurant and
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: that this restaurant is no longer around, but we knew
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: people that worked there and we were like there like whatever,
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: and they just one person like told me this story
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: is like oh this, I was like, how often are
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: they here? Like you know, we're just talking about like
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: some of the people that are coming and going, and
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: it's like and they literally just were like, well yeah,
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: because they want to bring their family over. So the
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: owners keep their papers, oh wow until they can help, right,
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: And it's like I'm like sitting at the table like oh,
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: like you know, like I'm like, this is labor. This
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: is that's how it happens where it's like I'll help
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: you come over and you'll owe me this and you
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: have a way to work it out, but until you do,
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: I'll hold the thing and you go. Like and in
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: some where it's like this person that was telling me
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: was innocently telling you this arrangement, and it's like did
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: you guys hear that? Okay, you're like whoa, that's yeah.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: That like brings me to like a question around like
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: what are the things that people should be looking for
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: or listening for?
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: Uh? And then like what can they what should they
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: do about it?
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: Because like I remember, like you know, I live in
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: Minneapolis right now. Even in Minneapolis, there's signs, you know,
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: like if you go into the bathroom or whatever, like
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: like now it's saying like, you know, like fifty people
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: are traffic through m ms P every month or whatever
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: now and like so and and then they like you know,
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: say something like.
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: If you see anything suspicious, let us know.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: So like, but what I'm curious about is like what
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: are the what are the things are maybe the most
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: common things that we should be looking for or listening for,
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: And if we do hear or see those things, what
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: should we do? Like what what are just like the
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: what are like the best next steps for folks?
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: I would say this right, So there's two parts. So
• 45:56
  Speaker 4: the first time that ever got exposed to human trafficking,
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: which is really interesting, was the fourth lethal weapon. Oh yeah,
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: Danny Glover brings that Asian family home and they find
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: him in a shipping container and he's like free and
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: slaves Like no one did for my ancestors. I'm free
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: and slaves And I thought no way, Like they were
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: in a shipping container. He had to like bring him
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: in and he was supposed to work for one of
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: these criminal organizations, and I thought very romanticized. But again wow.
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: And then the second one, which is way more feels
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: like our world less like taken, more like ugh is
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: Eastern Promises with Vigo Mortensen, which is it's brutal because
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: it's really about a nurse that delivers a baby from
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: a girl who's being used and she dies and there's
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: this baby that she doesn't know what to do with
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: and that's the that like gritty, gross, like oh God
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: like that. I remember thinking this feels really not good.
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: And it was within probably a year that we were
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: we met with a dude that was a ministry guy
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: that had us pray. He prayed for us and said,
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: would you guys just be willing to be willing if
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: you meet a girl? And this is very Christian, so
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: please forgive me. This is very where we were. But
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: it's like he said, if you meet a girl and
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: she's struggling and she's thinking of having an abortion, even
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: would you be willing to take her child? Would you
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: be willing to say, like, we will adopt your baby.
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: It was like being that responsible for like if someone struggling,
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: would you care enough for unborn life? Would you care
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: enough for these issues that you say you care about?
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: And if you see children at risk, would you be
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: willing to be willing, and they'd taken in like six
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: or seven kids at this point, and so I remember
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: us standing up and he prayed for us, and it
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: was just very simple prayer. And within a couple of
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: months I wrote Descending into Health with Sleeping Giant because
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: that was the first time I'd ever been like, I
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: didn't know human trafficking modern day was like a thing.
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: And this dude is brought in two sisters whose family
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: was trafficking them on the Marshall Islands. He adopted a
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: little boy from a year u Cranian orphanage, Like it
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: was just I mean built rooms in their garage to
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: house all these kids. It was like, wow, that was
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: two thousand and seven, and so it was like that
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: was where it first started, like coming across from me.
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: People that could ever hear this podcast are probably like
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: modern kids on the internet hanging out in music scenes.
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: I ended up on a plane next to a girl
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: coming home. I spoke at a conference in California and
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: was flying back to Salt Lake and sat nice as
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: girl and I was wearing my run against Traffic shirt
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: and I think I just was trying to be nice,
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: but she had kind of a vibe like something wasn't good,
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: and so I just made a point to ask her
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: if she could hand me maybe like the brochure or something.
• 48:42
  Speaker 4: And so she's like, what are you doing coming back
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: from And so I started telling her I come back
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: from this church, my wife and I do this thing.
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: And she met a dude on Instagram that was a
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: tattoo artist, and she traveled to his shop for the
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: weekend to go party with him, and within two hours
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: of getting there, they started drinking together and hanging out,
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: and then he tried to get her to go to
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: this house in his friend's car, and she didn't want
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: to do that, so she rode with him to the house.
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: And then she's at a house with a bunch of
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: strangers and this guy she met on Instagram. He leaves
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: and then starts messaging her that if she wants to
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: ride back, she's gonna have to sleep with the dudes
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: that are at the party. So like Instagram hookups, online relationships,
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: things that seem inappropriate, the leverage of power in a relationship,
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: shifting a narcissistic relationship, people using drugs too early, getting
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: caught up in addiction, people that become sexualized too soon.
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: I know, that can be weird because I want people
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: to be sexual beings or whatever. But like, if teenagers
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: are getting experimental like that, they run the risk of
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: running into people that would would love to exploit that.
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: That's the reality is Like, so if you have friends
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: or family, that's literally what this like my run was was,
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: like I thought, I will go to schools and I
• 50:02
  Speaker 4: will talk to kids that are fourteen to seventeen, because
• 50:05
  Speaker 4: that's how old this first survivor was, and I will
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: just tell them pay attention. That's it, because they are
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: the first responders. So how could we be first responders
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: on this call? Hey be willing to admit that sexuality
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: is freaking awesome and it will get exploited by perverse
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: and greedy and broke down people. And it's men or women,
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: it's gay and straight. If someone needs a place to stay,
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: they'll do some stuff that they wouldn't normally do. If
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: someone's hungry enough, they'll do some stuff that they wouldn't
• 50:40
  Speaker 4: normally do. If people are starved for attention enough, they
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: will do some stuff that they would not normally do
• 50:47
  Speaker 4: in their right mind. So pay attention to people their
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: behaviors around drugs and alcohol, their behaviors with their romantic
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: partners or their communities. Maybe they'd just start hanging out
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: with Like I know what it was like when I
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: was eleven or twelve and I started rolling with dudes
• 51:02
  Speaker 4: that were doing drugs or dealing drugs or selling drugs,
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: started hanging out with all the gangster kids, and like
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: all of a sudden, you end up in cars with
• 51:07
  Speaker 4: people that you're like, I this car has bullet holes
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: in it, Like, oh no, I don't know where we're going.
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: This is gonna be crazy. So I mean, Chrissy Green,
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: you were like young, you started hanging out boys that
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: were older, and like you could end could have ended
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: up in some really bad situations. So it's those interpersonal
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: things that's what you pay attention to. But I saw
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: a twenty something year old competent girl go from I
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: thought I was gonna go hang out with this dude
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: I met online too. I had to wait for his
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: friend to fall asleep, and then I ran out of
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: that house with my stuff and I called an uber
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: and came to the airport and spent three hundred dollars
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: to get a one way to get home. So that's
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: like that just happened. A couple of years ago. So
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: it's like online people, Dude, who are you talking to?
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: What are you talking about? Like do you know them? Really?
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: Like that's the stuff that people got to be careful with.
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: Don't send them pictures, bro, don't send nudes to people.
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: Stop that you're gonna get like sex storted or you're
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: a dude that thinks you're sending some like shirtless photo
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: to some babe and then it ends up on some
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: kids computer and then you're gonna be a sex offender
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: for the rest of your life. Like you pay attention,
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: Like if that's weird, it is weird.
• 52:22
  Speaker 5: It's basically what you're saying.
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, dude, that's real. That's hey man, that's I mean,
• 52:28
  Speaker 4: that's pretty good. I don't and I don't know how
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: to put that in a context that people can't divvy
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: up because it's like, look at these weird Christian virgins
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: talking about I'm just saying it's like, yo, if it
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: feels off, it's off, don't Okay, Yeah.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: But I think that's where it's like coming back to
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: like connection codes all the time, right, because it's like
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: it's like the biggest like antidote to suicide is connection
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: is actually like yeah, like having so it's like thinking
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: about how lonely people are. And I think, like, you know,
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: there's when we I can't remember what when we were
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: kind of dealing with some of the aftermath of this,
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: like meeting help from the Attorney General and that sort
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: of thing, and then like our Tommy's oldest daughter was
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: in high school up the street from us, and they
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: told us like, oh, we've got eight open cases right now.
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: It was like file, I'm meeting with the Joint Task
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: Force in the city and they go, where did your
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: daughter go to high school? And I said, one of
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: the high schools is downtown Salt Lake. And I think
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: it was four. I don't think it was eight. I
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: don't want to exaggerate, but she said, I have X
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: amount of open files of kids at your daughter's high
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: school being trafficked by family members right now, not sold
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: in shipping containers, used four things, and they're kept at home,
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: so like cities in cities in a marror. And I
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: looked at her and I was like what, because it's like,
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: it's not because it's poor, it's not because it's rich.
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: It's just because people are fun man, Like it's like
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: it just happens, Like I don't know what else to say,
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: Like the soul needs are not being met. And my
• 54:09
  Speaker 4: opinion is if you don't, if you don't have a
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: therapeutic or holistic or healing or repentant, humble relationship with Christ,
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: dog anyone can get it. Man. Like it just happens.
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: Like it's not a just a Christian. Christians don't do it.
• 54:26
  Speaker 4: Christians do it too. But I would just say, like,
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: the judge to me is the Lord, and if that's
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: not right in your life, I have no idea what
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: standards are, but I do know that in the Christian
• 54:37
  Speaker 4: context of things, this whole thing makes way more sense
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: to me because I go, oh, Okay, there's this like
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: decay in the soul of people that the only treatment
• 54:47
  Speaker 4: is unconditional love from the Father and then connection with
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: those around us, loving God, loving our neighbor. If that
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: gets off or it's in the wrong order, dude, chaos ensues.
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: So that's my goofy Christian you know bullshit. What I'm
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: saying is it's weird to have that conversation with a
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: caseworker and have her say, yeah, where your daughter went
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: to school. It's happening in the neighborhood, and I'm like, no,
• 55:12
  Speaker 4: that's where I was like, Oh, in the US, it
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: looks different because the survivors we worked with were in Europe,
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean. But we're not there, and
• 55:19
  Speaker 4: it's easier to get traction overseas. It's cheaper to run
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: a nonprofit, it's cheaper to do your missions. It's everything
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: is less expensive, and it's like less red tape. It's
• 55:29
  Speaker 4: harder here in America, but it's it's worth it, and
• 55:33
  Speaker 4: we're going to figure it out, you know, not me,
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: but like smarter people. I'm going to put on rock
• 55:38
  Speaker 4: shows and then try to get money to the people.
• 55:41
  Speaker 4: That's what I'm going to do.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: People that are doing quality.
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, quality aftercare. But yeah, yeah, what do you think?
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I was saying, it's like it's probably similar,
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: like right where it's like check on your friends, they
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: check on the people that you know. Because we had
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: another like when his daughter was in high school. It
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: was like, you know, an allegation came out of an
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: inappropriate relationship with a student and teacher, right, and then
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: it was like so then talking to her about it,
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: she was like, I should have asked because she's had
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: so much trouble at home. She's like bouncing between homes
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: and she's like on her own. And then obviously this
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: teacher like took her in and then crossed like the
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: boundaries and it was it became like completely inappropriate. But
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: it was like that thing of going like, ah, it
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: happens like that easy, like that just where you make
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: enough compromises that you're in a in an inappropriate connection
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: or conversation, you know, And and so he has you know,
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: a daughter tried to reach out a number of times,
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: you know, just like but on the kind of on
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: the tail end of it, it's like, oh, I don't know,
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: I should have checked, right, I should have if something
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: feels weird, she'd probably just check in. And most of
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: your time, people are going to lie and they're going
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: to self preserve and they're going to protect themselves, but
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: they'll remember it when it comes down to it and
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: they go like, hey, this is really not a good
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: situation and I need to get out, and then they're
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: going to reach out to the people that were like
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: that were.
• 57:05
  Speaker 4: At least the same place. So I like, I like
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: what you said, Like, if it feels weird, it is,
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: and if we can just be brave enough to be like,
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: I'm here. If there's anything out of line, I'm here,
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: And like if you make a mistake, I'm here. But
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: I'd rather I'd rather start communicating that in ahead of time, like, hey,
• 57:22
  Speaker 4: it can happen.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: I don't love because now, I mean and some of
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: the more some of these you know, like the taking
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: kind of right, because like in that kind of world.
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: Is a very special set of skills. Know the real story.
• 57:41
  Speaker 4: She's she's gone gone, Liam Neeson, That is not real anyways, glorious,
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: It would be glorious if it was real. We need
• 57:49
  Speaker 4: four million, that's what.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: We don't have. But I mean, like we have the
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: National Human Trafficking Hotline, yes, right where people can call it.
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: That's probably what you've seen in the airports. It's very common.
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: So then then they started, you know, airlines have taken
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: it on. It's like, how do we notice like odd
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: behaviors and people that are maybe you know, being forced
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: into the situation. Hotels have also done it where it's like, well,
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: how do we kind of pick up on these key behaviors.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: And I'm sure that there's tons of false calls in
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: the myths that you know that like misreading and that
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: sort of thing. But I love that it's on people's
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: radar and we're looking for it.
• 58:27
  Speaker 4: Like you if you talk to a person and their
• 58:29
  Speaker 4: partner won't let them talk, that's weird. It's just weird.
• 58:33
  Speaker 4: Maybe it's because they don't speaks good of English, maybe
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: it's because they're just quiet. But if you get the
• 58:38
  Speaker 4: sense that it's weird, hey, it's it might be weird.
• 58:41
  Speaker 4: It's exactly stuff like that where you're like that was
• 58:43
  Speaker 4: a little off, like why didn't he let her talk?
• 58:45
  Speaker 4: Like what is that? And then you have people that
• 58:48
  Speaker 4: are like trying to be the what is it? Like
• 58:50
  Speaker 4: the Karen thing where everything becomes like a trafficking thing
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: or it's like so that's the weird thing. But it's
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: like I'd rather us play that game than not, because
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: what happens in the absence of people paying attention is nothing.
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: So it's okay, like, let's you know, I'd rather traffickers
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: feel nervous. I'd rather people feel like I don't want
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: it to be weird, Like that's fine, that's great, that's
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: a better world for my daughters. That's great. I love that,
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: you know, it's a more accountable world for my son.
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: So that's great. It's all good with me, man, I'm cool,
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: Like my job is to love their mom and be
• 59:22
  Speaker 4: free sexually and not be a weirdo and not be
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: into all sorts of crap and be able to talk
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: about it. And then they go, oh, I know what
• 59:29
  Speaker 4: it's like to be able to have a relationship. So
• 59:31
  Speaker 4: I don't need to become a sex buyer. I don't
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: need to mess around with the pornography world, which is
• 59:38
  Speaker 4: a fear for all sorts of bad behaviors and it
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: hurts people and it helps traffickers. That sucks. So it's like,
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: if we can model better relationships, like everything goes back
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: to like eyes on your own plate. If you can
• 59:50
  Speaker 4: do your your human part, well, you have a better
• 59:54
  Speaker 4: chance of impacting the world. You know, a lot of
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: people are like, what do I do. It's like, try
• 59:58
  Speaker 4: to be a decent human. Just try that. Just try
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 4: that and be willing to be willing to pay attention
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 4: and and the world can get incrementally better. But if
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: millions of us do that, the world gets better, Like
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 4: we get better recognizing it, we hopefully get better at
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: connecting with one another. We we create healthier relationships, we
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: create stronger communities. But it's not up to the states,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: it's not up to all these systems. It's up to people.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: Like always, we are the magic always, and we're the
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 4: disease when we're messed up. So it's like it's on us.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: I don't I don't know. I don't know. It's like
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: it's like, pay attention, please pay attention. Love that and
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: read Chrissy's book Many more like me on Amazon with
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 4: great pictures.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: You didn't say, Christy Green, So I don't know whose
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: book you're actually talking.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: True, this is Christy Green. Read Christy Green's book. It
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: says right there, it says Chrissy Green. It's and then
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: there's a picture right there and next to the fame
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 4: right to the picture.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: So yeah, all right, Well with all that said, Christy Green,
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: you ready for your top five most influential albums, My
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: top five most influential albums you were writing down before,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: So I'm ready for this.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: I had to.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: I had to brainstorm just a little bit, make sure,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: and so okay, young me, little me. I love like
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: the Cranberries and Edie Burkel, and I know I love
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: Nade O'Connor. I loved nothing.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: That's been over a year ago that she died, right, yeah.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 4: Over a year. We just went to Ireland. There was
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 4: mad graffiti of like her face all over the place
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 4: in Dublin. It was tight.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: I thought she was so. I thought she was so cool,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: and my dad was like, I can't believe you would
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: listen to somebody who was yes, like it was so offensive, right,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: I know, But I just thought she was like the
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: coolest for you know, standing.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: Up against authorities.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I got into hardcore, so let let me
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: be honest, Like Altered Mission, Oh do you remember the
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: small little bands from ever ago ago?
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 4: They're every pre no innocent victim, right and then.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: Like anyways, some of the guys now play in n.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: Ivy hold on talk about that though for a second,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: because that would be in this world, talk about what
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: Altered shows at the Yeah, okay that, yes, so I.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: Was I was little.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 4: Eric Gregson guitarist of Sleeping Giant, also guitarist and vocalist
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 4: of Death Star, also guitarist of Cast and Stone, also
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: guitarist of Consecrate from Redlands got saved back in Chrissy
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: Green's living room when he was like fourteen.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we go way back, yes, And so I yeah,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: that's how I went to school with Kyle Fisher and
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: Jason and all these guys that played. They were like, hey,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: you should come to the show like after it's a
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: like at my church, right, And I was like, oh,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: that's weird, Like that's weird, okay, But because it was
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: out of church, my dad let me go because I
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: was in so much trouble. I was hanging out with
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: all the wrong kind of riff raff and.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 4: Christian Green was one of the quiet ones. Yeah, so
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 4: she would be quiet and then she would disappear for
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 4: days on end, and just like yeah, so she was
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 4: in trouble.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: And then the hardcore kids, Christian skinhead kids were like, hey,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 4: come to a show on.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: Show And I was like, I was so blown away
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: that here's this like Harker music that but they had
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: it felt so different to me, like and I was
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: already like I was already listening to like Judge and
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: uh Youth of Today and like all these you know,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: like where's I goh, And so then I thought they
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: sound a lot similar, like it's the same vibe, but
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: it has like a completely different feel and because of
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: that connection, I actually got saved. I started going to
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: that church and that's how I came to to follow Jesus.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: That was like a huge, a huge part. And then
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: and then like you got to think like that late
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: late late right late nineties, yeah, late.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 4: When did you go to Cornerstone with Hey, Christy Green
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 4: hung out with Ryan Clark at Cornerstone in.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: The mid was he bald then.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: He was a little we were all little.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 4: It was when he was in vocal.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we went. We were friends way back then, so
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: it was it was so crazy because we did. We
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: took a picture at the Holy Name show and it
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: was like Jason Moody and Kyle Fisher and myself and
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: Ryan and uh Brooke Doom, you know, like and I
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: was like, oh my gosh, this is like not you know,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: we're like old people now and look at us. We
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: have like decades decades, shared decades of hardcore shows.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 4: And Kyle sent me Kyle sent me a picture of
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 4: them on a rope swing with me and n IV
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 4: on tour. I booked them on tour in ninety nine
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: or two thousand, and there's a picture of us on
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 4: a rope swing up the mountains and Kyle sent me
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 4: a picture and I was like, holy smokes, So.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: Just years of you know, yeah, yeah, So they were
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: super influential in my life.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: It was so awesome.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: So and then Heather Clark that was another I don't know,
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: it's she.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 4: Very ihop prayer Room, harp and bull intercessories.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: She did a couple records, I think two of them
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: where she literally just sings some of the psalms and
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: and I would I would go to what we built
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: a prayer room, and I would go to the prayer
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: room and I put that on and I would dance
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: just four hours. I would dance through the entire albums,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: and then I would do that like every day. I
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: loved it so much.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 4: Now, when I met Chrissy, she was on the actual
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: like prishatic I dance team at this House of Prayer
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: in southern California, And so when I met her, I
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 4: was like whoa like she it was like so sick.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 4: There was a bunch of people they and they all
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 4: coordinated together. So it wasn't like you know, like when
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 4: you go to like conferences and stuff's like real willy
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 4: really and it's very like whoa Okay, what are they doing?
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: These guys were like the sickest. They were almost like
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 4: an extension of the worship band on the floor and
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 4: they would move together and it would be like powerful.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 4: Like I was like shocked because I was like, whoa.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 4: So when I met Christy she was like a She
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: would dance like she was a dancer and it was
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 4: very like I don't know, it was beautiful, really really holy.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 4: It was all super cool to watch. But I was like,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: what is this? Like this is crazy? But yeah, so
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 4: Heather Clark dancing, dancing in the presence of the Lord.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: Sleeping giant change. It's such a big journey.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: What album in particular, Well, she does guest vocals on
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: Army like the Chosen One.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 4: For those of you really know, that's her praying Lord,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 4: We're asking that you would do all the the stuff
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 4: and we just love that. Like that's Christy Green guest
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 4: vocal care of the Holy Spirit. So that's a big
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 4: record for her. But I don't know which one, Which
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 4: one did you actually like?
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: Which which one has Covenant on it?
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 4: First one? Yeah, that's Christy Green's song that was like
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 4: Covenant was that was our first show was the night
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 4: before my bachelor That was my bachelor party. That was
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 4: Sleeping Giants. First show was the night before I married Chris.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 4: That's why I know exactly how long we've been a band.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 4: We finished our concert career. Our last show was twelve
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 4: years to the date of our first show, which was
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 4: the night before our anniverse amazing. So that's why we
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 4: did February seventeenth, two thousand and six, and then we
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 4: ended February seventeenth, twenty eighteen, because like I just knew
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 4: it was like, yeah, the night before I got married
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 4: was like this bachelor party show that Eric helped me throw.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 4: We played like four songs, Death Star played, Doom played,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 4: and we raised a bunch of money and Eric just
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 4: came and gave me a hat full of cash and
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 4: was like, have a great honeymoon man, And I was like,
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 4: holy spoy. I started crying.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: I was like yo, And so we what year was
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: it that came out.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: Two thousand and eight, seven or eight? That record was
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 4: two thousand and record the first one, first one that
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 4: was like there's a video on the documentary actually of
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 4: the Farewell documentary where Chrissy's dancing with flags in Salt
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 4: Lake City because she was danced. She'd come out and
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 4: dance on stage, so all my ruffian ass friends or
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 4: like beating people and then they'd stop, like what going on?
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 4: And they love Chris so they just be like, yo,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 4: I don't know what she's doing. It's like me without you.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: Like back in the hardcore days, they would like throw
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: out flowers or whatever, and it's like kind of this
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: weird economy where it's like they're throwing out flowers but
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: they're playing like hardcore music.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: And it was like, that's that was the beauty of
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: me without you.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 4: I think, yeah, that well, those are just yeah, that's
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 4: a special that's a special band. You know, those are
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 4: beautiful souls. Those people just like Chrissy.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you know this, but Tommy had
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: a little acoustic project called a White Flag.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, come put it out?
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: Do you remember coming with chat and Yeah.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 4: Come and live put out My first like EP was it.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 4: I don't know where it is.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: It's like I don't eat a white Flag.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 4: It's it's it's not good.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: But it's it also is in the timeframe of when
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: we were dating and getting married, and so it's a
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: very like like a cool little time, you know, like
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: I think about these times because then Sleeping Giant, it
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: was like, you know, he was they were touring and
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: they were doing like Scream the Prayer tours, and we
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: were trying to figure out. We were like, you know,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: because co parenting and you know, little and then and
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: then having starting when our kids, our babies started coming,
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: and it was like how do we how do we
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: do all this? And then it was so well because
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: now we're thinking about it, like you know, Sleeping Giant,
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: we just went through so many years, especially with our
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: son being young and then adding our daughters and stuff.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: It was like, there's so many times when there's cool
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: opportunities like Tomy's been in New Zealand a couple of times,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: you know, like these festivals and that sort of thing,
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: and and it was just always cheaper and more affected, right,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: you just go, we couldn't. We just couldn't. We can
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: do it all. And then and then just to be
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: able to go just recently with Holy Name out to
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: the loud and proud in Germany, them getting invited and
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: that sort of thing, and we just got to the
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: point where we're like we have to We're gonna like
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: break the bank, and we're gonna We're just gonna make
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: it happen because our kids are, our kids are We're like,
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: you know, yeah, we can't just keep waiting for everything
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: to line up. Yeah, And so it's been I think
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: Holy Name has been such an amazing project and create
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: creative aspect to like a different season and time in
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: our life, and and it's been really amazing. I think
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: it's been necessary and needed for Tommy and his own.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 4: This is your is your records?
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: Basic?
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: Come on?
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 4: Now you're doing that? It's like, so what Tommy?
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: So what?
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: What?
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 4: What else? But I am going to be sure you're
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 4: the best issue.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: So I think that's amazing.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 4: You're such a fucking amazing person. Amazing.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: So it's really cool to see it and and see
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: the kind of where it comes up against. You know,
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: it's hard. It's hard being you know, to somebody that's
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: an artist and creative. It's like, how do you not.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: Say especially hard at being at Tommy Green, who's.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 4: A circus and a moron? Can we talk about good music?
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: Listen?
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 4: She's got other bands. And then my wife likes me,
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 4: which I love. But what I'm saying is what I have.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: Other things written down.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 4: But there's other bands written down, but.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: Those are by the way. A White Flag is on YouTube.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 4: Great.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the EP is on YouTube.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 4: Great.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: Hey.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 4: If you want to hear the better version of A
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 4: White Flag, listen to Holy Name, because like, I wrote
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 4: songs on the acoustic guitar and then Joe took them
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: and made the laws.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 3: Well, that's what Joe does, that's what does made me.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 4: Somewhere quiet and like my way, we're just me and
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 4: my living room in twenty fourteen by myself, and then
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 4: he's made them Incredibleesome it better?
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, A couple more, A couple more here, Christy Green,
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 3: A couple more or albums music I love.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: I think of Fanta Grand.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 7: Oh yeah, they're early.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: I know that they just released a newer album and
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: uh but what's the name of the one. Gosh, we
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: rocked it forever, let.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 4: Me look at it. It's one of the earliest.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 4: One of their first releases was so Far.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: That Vibe because I also like I teach yoga and
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: and so I love that. I love some of the
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: vibe that feel because I usually play music my classes,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: which one is.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 4: Its voices voices. Islid Movies is really good. That's twenty ten.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 4: That was like the first but that Voices record is
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 4: that was great? It's really good.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah, one more, one more?
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 4: Bi what else you got? Real? But something you rock
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 4: out with the kids, and you're saying more recent? Yeah,
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 4: more recent?
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, what con what okay? Before he got like
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: I've stumbled upon his song?
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 3: What is it?
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: Stick Season sixties?
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: And and yeah, I was like I laughed because I
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, he talks about COVID in it, right,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: And and so I showed it to my son. I
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, you got to hear the song, like whatever.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: And then we literally rocked that album for the whole
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: year to all the school rights to and from school,
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: and and then he became really popular. It's like one
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: of those ones where you're like, remember because I like
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: to read long and now I can't even afford to
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: go to your show.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 4: It's two minutes away from my house. See, you never
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 4: get it. You're cool before the best. Yeah.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 3: That reminds me of like when Colin showed me thrift
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: Shop the Macklemore song when it had like ten thousand
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: views on YouTube, and I was.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 4: Like, it's a dope video.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: It was a great video, great song, or you know,
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: catchy song at least, and yeah, Colin was like, dude,
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: you got to you got to see this. This is
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: so different and then it and then it became like
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: the biggest song of what was that like two thousand
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: and eleven or twenty twelve.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 4: I did the same. I did the same.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: It's so weird, right, Oh that what about? That? Just
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: blew up? And then it's like weird because you're like, oh,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: I'm listening to this, I'm loving it. And then you're like,
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: why are they on the Grammy next night? Like they're
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: like before me, I remember we listen.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, wait a minute, is that turnstile and military gun
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 4: on a top of it?
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 5: It was so much.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: Did you did you guys see speaking of Grammys in
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: alternative bands, did you see that Knocked Loose was nominated
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: for Metal Albums in the year.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 4: I was talking about that with Rada because Spirit Boxes
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 4: on Knocked Loose is on.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 5: House of Protection on there too.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 4: No, no, or maybe they are, but it's for me.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 4: I was talking about metal.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 5: I think it's for music video action.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 4: I think about it. Yeah, yeah, so like I hope
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 4: that day. I was telling Rada because he was like,
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 4: my son is fault he really likes Tyler the creator,
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 4: and he likes he's he's kind of falling in love
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 4: with I think is like really resonating for him, Like
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 4: he really likes it, like I'm seeing he just likes
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 4: hearing people's words, I think. And so we were talking
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 4: about how for him, he's got a list of what
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 4: were the most important kind of hip hop records that
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 4: he's heard, and you know, top of the list that
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 4: should be the Grammy winner in that category would be
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 4: not like us, like that is a cultural phenomenon. But
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 4: I said, but they're probably gonna give that song to
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 4: like Taylor Swift, and he's like, really, it just seems
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 4: like the Grammys they have a different thing and whole
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 4: subcultures are like this is the biggest deal ever and
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 4: they're gonna get mixed. And he's like, knock Loose has
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 4: changed the game. Like Billie Eilish watching knock Loose at Coachella,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 4: that is a sentence that really happened. However, that's not Metallica,
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 4: so it's like, oh, like it's just not.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: Loose was charting higher than Taylor Swift for like a
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: couple of weeks this summer, crazy, which.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 4: Is so necessary because Taylor Swift has no good breakouts.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 5: Although that shake it off, so did kind of have
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 5: a good breakdown?
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 4: She listen.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 3: She doesn't have a cookie monster sounding guy is a
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: bit of a.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 4: Swifty her and my Piper Green, my little piper Poo,
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 4: they both are like if I walk in my house
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 4: on the wrong day, it's Taylor Swift all the way.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: So I'm just like, it's like easy cleaning music like you,
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: just like you know, no soul.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 4: No beatdowns, there's nothing happening, there's there's no stage.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 3: Taylor Swift makes music for cleaning your toilets.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 4: There you go.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: She should be proud.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 4: Gosh, darn it she is. It's fine, love it.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 3: Well, that's a great list. Christy Green, let's hear what
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 3: you want to plug?
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: Obviously book is out, it's been out for a number
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: of months now, but yeah, what do you want to plug? Uh?
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: The book is out. Many more like Me, Many more
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: like Me. Dot com is easy has all the links.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: We're also getting ready to release Holy Name Live the Name.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 4: Rock Against Traffic. That's gonna be a ticketed live stream show.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 4: It's a benefit for Run Against Traffic and it's also
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 4: kind of the more public launch of Chrissy's books. So
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 4: there's some like little commercials in it and stuff like that.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 4: So I think it's gonna be just December six on
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 4: YouTube or on some streaming service. You'll start seeing posts
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 4: about that in the next week or two.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 5: Christy Greens instead and stuff like that, or what.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 4: All the socials right, it's Chrissy against Traffic and then
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 4: many more like me dot com, Tommy against Traffic, Chrissy
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 4: against Traffic, Run against traffic, Loving against traffic.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 3: Do you have a couple's account that's like Tommy and
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 3: Christy against Traffic?
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 4: No, because we aren't like secretly fighting and no one's
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 4: cheated on each other. I thought that's the only reason
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 4: that couples keep tabs on each other. It's like, it's
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 4: like that. It's like the Fall family photo. We're like, okay,
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 4: there was totally I'm just kidding.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 3: You know, you're absolutely right. It's you're absolutely right.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 4: But no, we don't joint account. She just has full
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 4: access to whatever she wants of mind at any.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 5: Open door policy.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: Uh, Christy Green, what else would you like to plug?
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: What else would I like to plug? Well, I'll say
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: this real quick. I'm gonna plug our print shop because yeah,
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: we got tired of not getting our own gear, so
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: we started our own print shop. It's called Ritual Print
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: Company in Salt Lake City. So yeah, and then I
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: don't know if you knew not, but I did grow
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: up in California, as you have referenced, like some of
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: the bands that I listened to in my experience in
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: southern California. But I love doing trying to get into
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: the Hollywood scene, going down to being extras and showing
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: up and you know, did a little Garth Brooks and uh,
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: you know full House with that. I loved America's funniest videos.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 4: So so.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 3: Rest in Peace were you were.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 4: America's first videos? Memory be Eternal Bro.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 5: So you were hanging out of the full House set.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 4: That's wild, I know, right, Uncle Jesse and the Rippers?
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 3: Did you rock it out? He just Uncle Jesse or
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 3: not Uncle Jesse? What was the other one that did
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 3: the cut it out thing?
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 5: Joey Dave?
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 3: He just announced he has cancer. I just saw like
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 3: this on the news.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 4: That's gonna bum me out because I thought we were
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 4: trying to make fun of him, and I was getting
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 4: cued up to make fun of him. But then you
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 4: said that, So now I have, but you.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: You can make the joke like, maybe they can cut
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: it out, you know, cut out cut that tumor out out,
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: cut it out.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 4: Hey, what about I thought? Is that the guy is
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 4: Dave cool Cot or whatever? Is that the dude that
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 4: El Morris?
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 3: I brought this up somebody somebody mentioned most like you, and.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: She's like, because I feel like there's a couple of
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: songs where I was like, oh, I know.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 4: What she got, dude?
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 3: Is that real though?
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 4: Is that just a rumor?
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: No, they know that that's true, Like they they dated.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: That whole album is all about him. Yeah, one hundred percent.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 4: So Jagged's Little Pill is about that guy. What kind of.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: One last thing, Christy Green, about your if you know,
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: filling in as an extra. You know, obviously it sounds
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: like you were filling in as an extra years ago.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying right now, though, if you were to
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: do any extra kind of gig these days, you I
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: was about to say, you could totally fill in for
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian right now if they need like a little extra,
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: a little stunt double or whatever, you could totally do it.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: Hit me up.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 7: Right, it will just be a sliding pay scale for
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 7: the day, which one because one of the Kardashians was
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 7: like pretty passionate about some of the litigation for trafficing.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 6: I'm pretty sure it was Kim. I don't know, I
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 6: don't she like went to she went to the White
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 6: House and.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 4: Like and like made it that during Trump's previous Really, listen,
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 4: here's what we want. And this is this has nothing
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 4: to do with my own desire to hang out with him.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 4: Here's what we want. We want Blake Lively to read
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 4: the book because she cares about counter trafficking. But then
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 4: that way we'd get a chance to hang out with
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 4: Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds. And that's fine. He could
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 4: have his shirt on or it's fine, it doesn't matter
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 4: to me. Either way is good. We just wanted to
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 4: read the book, That's all I'm trying to say. So,
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 4: oh lord gods, and.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: Really it is. It's a quick read, but it's also
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: one to be shared. So having people read the story,
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: take action, be a party.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 3: Send it to Blake Lively.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 4: Yes, hey, send us your guys' address and we'll send
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 4: you a great book. That'd be great.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll do that.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: Do that.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 3: Uh, Christy Green and Tommy Green. So great to hang
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 3: out with y' all. We got to do this again.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: Actually, I just need to come to Salt Lake and
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: just hang out with you guys. That would be so
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: much fun. Yeah, I love me, so I'd love to.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: I'd love to come out to Salt Lake sometimes.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 3: And then hang out.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 4: I think. I think it's some of the best skiing
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 4: in the country, fact, if not the world. It's like
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 4: there's something really special. Come and do it, Come and
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 4: do it. It's great. We got homies that you could
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 4: ride with and they're really great, So do it.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 3: Let's do it well. Thank you all so much, so
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 3: great to chat with you, great to meet you.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: Christy Green. We've heard so much about you. Finally finally
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: able to put a name and a face together. So great,
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: so lovely, so thank you so much.