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164. Shifting Your Mindset Around the Legal & Financial Challenges of Divorce · Dear Divorce Diary: A Fresh Approach To Healing Grief & Building A Life Of Confidence After Divorce

• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Hi love, is it just me or does the legal system in general lawyers, the law, the court system cause an activated nervous system response?
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Right, at a minimum, it's like moves nervous system green light into yellow light and probably into red light, right Like complete nervous system collapse.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know how to navigate this.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: It's completely overwhelming and I'm going to shut down now, just from intimidation and fear and insecurity and all the things.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Imagine there was a woman who revolutionized the entire divorce process for women and allowed you to have some faith in your legal representative.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I would want to talk to her.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Would you want to talk to her?
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Let's talk to her together.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Hi love, welcome to Dear Divorce Diary, the podcast helping divorcees go beyond talk therapy to process your grief, find the healing you crave and build back your confidence.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, dawn Wiggins, a therapist, coach, integrative healer and divorcee.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Join me for a fresh approach to healing grief and building your confidence after divorce.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: All right loves.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Today we have with us Heather Wick, and she is the CEO of the only divorce and family law firm for only women in Northeast Florida.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Love that, and she has revolutionized the way women are represented throughout the entire divorce process and has such a heart for empowering women to take control of their lives that as soon as we connected online I knew that she was a fit.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: She has her own podcast called Women Winning Divorce, and it is such a treat for us to have her today.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Heather welcome.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Dawn.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: It is a pleasure to be here today.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: So the law is so overwhelming for people, especially women.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: I think that divorce you know this is a time where we feel particularly disempowered or, like you know, we're just low vibe, depressed, anxious, insecure All those things are heightened Right and the legal system feels so overwhelming.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Can you tell us today the reasons we shouldn't be intimidated by the legal system, right Like help us understand what it is inside our flawed thinking that has us intimidated by the legal system?
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, I will do my best, and but I will start with the, on the premise that it is kind of created to keep outsiders out right so it's the fact that, you know, any of us are intimidated, but particularly women is I want to say, probably a little bit by design because of the, you know the lingual language like this common law from old English you know, in the 1600s, like this common law from old English, you know, in the 1600s.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: But then there's a lot of procedure and that scares people, right?
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: What does that mean?
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Well, it means there's a lot of rules, and I think, in order to like, maybe limit some of that anxiety, is to know that one.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: there are a lot of rules and you're not going to maybe know all of them, but there's time frames and so understanding that it's not anyone attacking you, because I will tell you in a divorce, you know, many of our clients feel like why are they insisting I do this right, like in 30 days?
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: So that part isn't personal.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: There is a lot of these timeframes and deadlines that occur and there is a lot of language that you know.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you're like what, what are they speaking?
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Are they saying is my attorney talking English or what?
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: And so not that you know, I think, just wanting to know that that is the way that the process exists.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: I do like to compare it to.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: You know, if you just go into the hospital, like in the ER, and you're listening, you're going to be like what are they saying?
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Like medical terminology, things, and and.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: So, because it it is.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of stuff that is kind of within that context, that doesn't translate always to regular English, but the I think the biggest thing that can help women is an attorney that they can communicate with and that will communicate with them, because you want to understand in plain English what do I have to do One and what does this process involve?
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Because it's a lot and every state varies, but there are deadlines and judges have a lot of rules and the courtroom has rules.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: But you know, if you just are able to say, please explain it to me, I think that is really important.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: You want to only work with people who will be like, yes, I'm going to explain it to you so that you understand it, not because you're stupid, right?
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: That is one thing right.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: It has nothing to do with that.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: That is not your realm and it's not the language every day.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: So you have to have somebody that you can work with that will translate the legalese to English.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: So that's part of it, right there, right, somebody that you can work with that will translate the legalese, so so that's part of it, right there.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Right, the communication piece having an attorney that has an open flow of communication and doesn't make you feel or doesn't speak in a condescending way, or yeah, yeah.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Because that's nobody wants that in any professional that they hire.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: But there is something about the divorce process, the legal system, that can be very intimidating, just like sometimes I'm talking to some financial professionals.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: You feel like okay, like I don't know what you're talking about and I it feels intimidating.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: So then you don't ask the questions that you really want to ask, because you're like I think.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: I know this, I think I know this.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, let's talk about that, right?
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Let's say a woman comes in your office and she's overwhelmed and her nervous system is dysregulated, she's anxious, she's judging herself, she's judging God knows what.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Right, that's not the best client either, right?
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: There's a role that we play as women in setting ourselves up for success, in coming to talk to you.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: How much would you say that makes a difference?
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: A woman's mindset, a woman's capacity to work through what she's feeling?
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: How much would you say that impacts her legal outcomes?
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: I think it impacts it.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: I mean probably impacts at least 75% of your case and a lot, because just of what you said, don, when you're when you know and we've talked about it and your nervous system is overrun, and when you're in a fight or flight kind of mode and unable to receive information and listen, then you can't ask the questions that if you were able to, you know, be in a good mind headspace, and if you're able to be calm, you can, then you would have good questions but, sometimes you know you get so anxious you don't ask those questions and it's so important because this is, you know, for these women going through divorce it's your life, it's your future and that bright headspace, mental space to allow some calm in that chatter is so important, especially when you're going in to meet with an attorney and with your team so that you're able to receive the information and ask questions.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's right.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: Ask good questions and then get good information.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: So by women just managing their own mental, emotional space, they can positively impact potentially, right, their case 75%, that's massive.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: So now you're starting to get at what sets you apart, right, there's something that really sets you apart from most attorneys.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about that, right?
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: How do you relate to your clients?
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: What is it that's inspired you to create this legal practice, which is typically kind of cold and sharp edges and intimidating?
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: And you're you're teaching yoga to your team, right?
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Like what makes you so different, love, Well, I feel like, because I really care.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: I really care about women, right?
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: It's not that I don't like men, but I really care.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: I feel like we do so much.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: I watched my mother do so much and just have a hard time standing up for herself, right.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: As a pleaser and I do see you know over the years so many women come in and maybe they just really don't value what they do.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: And many lawyers can get someone divorced and go through the process.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: It may not be their best deal or whatever, but you know they can do that procedurally.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: But how many really care about the person going through it do, and my staff does.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: We've really just hired only women and women attorneys and the supporting teams that really do care and want to know what they want.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Very few lawyers will ask clients that they are going to tell them what is going to happen it?
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: will tell them what they want, versus asking and really, really listening.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: That is a skill that is different than hearing.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: And a lot of lawyers like to talk more than they like to listen.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Listen to you saying all the things we're all thinking.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Listen to you saying all the things we're all thinking.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: So it sounds like a good chunk of how you practice was informed by your maybe early childhood experiences?
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and do you find in your practice I know I do in mine right, but that it's not enough for you to just care.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Women also have to be willing to step into that power place.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Right, you can't do it for them.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: It's like an I thou.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: It's like two puzzle pieces.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Right, you can offer one half of the puzzle piece, but we as women have to be willing to step into that power stance that I can-ness of it.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Do you see women really struggle with that, even when you have such a warm environment for them?
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: I do, and I I recognize that right.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: We, we, we meet our clients where they are and sometimes they make it more difficult for us as attorneys to represent them, and that can be a challenge and and not everyone is ready to make that shift and it sounds harsh, but from a victim- and they're just not there yet.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: And yet they are going through a divorce and so're not.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: We're not doing that kind of work.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: We're just having those kinds of conversations where we're trying to help you make decisions about your future and we want your input, but, um, you know, many, many times women just aren't quite ready to step into that possibility that level of power power because with the power comes responsibility, right, like accountability for my own life, my own feelings, my own situation, right.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: So I'm just curious, this is like a total one-off, like we're going to go down a rabbit hole here.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: But how do you think it got this bad where women, where we ended up just saying, like, whether we realize it or not, like we just feel very victimized because it really it truly.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Everything's vibrational right change your mind, change your life, and once we believe we can, I can, everything kind of clicks into place after that.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: But there's such a resistance I see from many women to say I can and to step into that.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: How do you think we got this far?
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know, and I think a lot of it is you.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: You know you're repeating that generational like behavior and you're very unaware.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: I think the majority of humans walk around unaware of, like you know, their family history and this generational stuff that they're just repeating, and it is.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: It can be daunting to do the work and look inward at your responsibility for your circumstances, and not everyone is in a space to do that and I think that we, I guess you know we have a culture where you don't have to take responsibility and at least maybe in a marriage where it's his fault and I think there is, you know, obviously it's easy on one hand to blame.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: I don't think it benefits any of us down the road, but Brene Brown told us in her research that what she found in the research about blame is that it's a familiar and comfortable way for us to offload our pain and discomfort.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: It's a quick fix to feeling icky quick, quick fix to feeling icky correct, and and so, yeah, we do it and and it's harder to look in inward.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: How did I get?
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Here, exactly, and how did?
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: I get here how did I get here and you know that life is happening.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: You know you can choose it's happening to you or happening for you, and I, even I, sometimes I'm like you know you're right and I look at things through that lens, but sometimes I just have to remind myself okay, well.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: I need to change.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: You know the vibration.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: I need to change something within the business right and how I'm relating, even with our attorneys or employees.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: If I want to see a change and you can't, you know, continue to ask the same question and do the same thing and expect a different result.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: I think that's the definition of insanity and it and if you feel it right, and so I think, especially when we're talking about divorce too, it's just so personal, right, and and it's so, it's just you know that inner part of your life you love somebody, you trusted them, and then it breaks up, and you know, I think.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: And then I think there's the opposite side where someone would go way overboard.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: It's all my fault, right, it's like it takes two, and at least being able to begin to see your part in it, I think, will just help you heal over and have a different relationship the next time around, hopefully, and maybe different relationships with, you know, family and friends and children.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Absolutely as women, when we want to be rescued, right, that's, that's kind of what the victim mentality is.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: It's like this really strong urge to like solve it, likeependency, right, like, rescue me, rescue me.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Do you ever feel the weight or pressure of that representing women?
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Like gosh, it's on you.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: It's not real, right, but it.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: But we sometimes send that message vibrationally to you that we want you to fix it for us.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: We want the law.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: We want the msa, the marigold separation agreement right, we want the law.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: We want the MSA, the marigold separation agreement right, we want the law to fix it for us.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Does that feel heavy, ever for?
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: you?
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, very much so.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: That's why I started doing yoga.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: And um, and even before yoga, I, I ran, and usually my best right, you know we're at the end of the day just to kind of release that because you know I think it'll make you sick, like you know if you can't find a healthy outlet for that, because I do and we as attorneys, we feel a huge responsibility.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: We are your advocate in court, which is a different set of rules of you know evidence, different set of language.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: You know you are relying on us in so many ways and it is our job to help you get a better.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: You know the result you want, or the best result for you based on your circumstances and the law, and it's it's a lot and we do have to.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: I feel very strongly as well for our team that they recognize that and and and stay strong by having some boundaries and not working yourself in the ground, because then we don't do our clients any good.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: We are completely stressed out, working all the time and you know not allowing that.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: I don't really.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: I don't think balance is the right word, but you know the harmony like you know it's just harmony.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: I love that yeah.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: So, um, yes, it's, it is a lot, and I I do think that your attorney does carry that you know for you.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: I just need them to come along with me.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Be good partners.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a way to be a good client.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: There's a way to be like a resistant client, like in anything, right?
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: So you've said that you want women to feel empowered, to know that they're important, to know that they deserve to be heard and that they're entitled to certain things.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: I can hear now you saying that you watched your mom do certain things right Like that.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Each client of yours, in a way, is like a representation of mom to a certain extent.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: That's so powerful, charged your work in such powerful ways.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: What do you wish women understood they were entitled to?
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: That they are entitled one to be heard by their attorney and that they, you know, what they have brought to this marriage may not have been financial, but that doesn't mean it doesn't matter.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: And and I think that's really important, and I think, because they, they brought value and the only way in the law right we can, you know, meet that value is through support and distribution of the financial assets.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: And it's like, yeah, you were a part of this and so there was value there.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: Now it may not be what you think, and that's where you need to, you know, you need to express and communicate with your attorney and understand that.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Because there's what's possible and then there's what you feel right, but what's?
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: legal and what you feel like they don't always line up right.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Right and you know, with divorce there can be not every divorce but there can be some things that have been hurtful and you, you know you want them to pay pound of flesh and we can't get that for you and there's just limits.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: However, you know, I mean that hopefully, you know, I like I want our clients to know, but that doesn't define you right, like that is.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: But there is what there is in that marital estate and you know, depending on where you live, how that law will be applied and, at the end of the day, though, you know you're worth so much more than any dollars, right, your, your wellbeing, your sense of who you are, and that peace and freedom can be worse so much, and you know, I that, I also think, is really something helpful for most women, and I think you know to know, like, hey, it's worth it and and yeah, sometimes there are going to be changes and differences, and, and we hope that you at least view it that it was for the best for you.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: I think we get into such a scarcity mentality, right, as you're ironing out the details, especially of finances and whatnot.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: I think we start to think in those moments I've got to get the best deal, because this is what there is for me, right, A very limiting kind of scarcity-oriented thought process.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: And I love to teach women that we have to reframe where abundance comes from.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Abundance isn't going to come from this marital separation agreement or division of assets, right?
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Abundance is going to come from an abundant mindset, from an understanding that there's a source, energy, and that if I'm in flow, I'm going to receive abundance.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: If I'm in scarcity, I'm going to cut myself off from it.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, tell us a few key mistakes that you see women often making in the process of divorce.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Right, like, what are some things you just see women doing over and over and over again?
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: You wish you could just send out a blanket memo to all women getting divorced.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Please hear this.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so for one, just almost the paralyzed by the fear and they just don't want to face it.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: No, please, don't, don't call the other attorney, don't do this Like don't call the other attorney, don't do this like don't rock the boat, don't move this forward, and you know the process happens.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: It then, you know, enters the legal world and there are certain deadlines and things.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: That's one where you know there are opportunities when cases can move slower, but they're so afraid that if we talk to them then they're going to have a bad result when it's like well, there is this professional side, in order to move you forward, you know that we have to communicate with the other side.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: So that that's one thing, and I think other is that if I ask for too much, my husband will be mad, and then he'll never.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: He won't follow the orders, he'll take it out on the kids.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: There's still a sense of fear of making him mad.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Um, and that, yeah, and I, I hate that because I'm like, well, something's probably going to make them mad and you can't predict that or control it.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: So that was a difficult one, because we're trying to help them stand up for themselves.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Let us stand up for you.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: But it's still scary.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: It is still scary and that you know is one.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: And then you know in a lot.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I think it's hard to hear, but that I think, women, you know, if you are able, you should find something to do that can support yourself financially.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Creating that, as small as it is, is going to start to hopefully build that confidence and that sense of purpose and esteem.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Right Doing esteemable acts creates esteem.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: And when you're feeling badly about yourself, yeah, like out of your comfort zone earning a couple of bucks, having a purpose, yeah a couple of bucks having a purpose, yeah, and, and I think too often that I see a lot and it's hard because I am, you know, we were on their side right, and so sometimes we deliver things, and I do too.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: I know and it seems like and it really is it's meant out of love, out of respect for you, but it may not be what you want to hear, but you know the fact that you have you left the workforce and you just want to be at home with your kids.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: That is, I hear you, I understand, but if the divorce and many times it's going to happen, there's not going to be the financial support to provide for that.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: And that is okay.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: That we are, you know, as women, I know you know you can tie up your.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: When your identity is tied up so much in being a mom, it's hard to imagine that I can do something else.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: But but I know that you can and I I have seen it and I just I wish women would open up to that.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I feel like too many, too many.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: You know too many times and you see a lot of it in social media.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: You know it's just like Cinderella, my prince charming, and now I don't have to work and he's going to pay for everything, and then, um, you give up your financial autonomy.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Give up your freedom, you give identity, the ability to have some power, because money, money is needed in this world right to feed us, to clothe us, to get from you know place.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: That, yeah, but it's not.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: You know, as we get into the nitty gritty of this piece, it's not the lack of money, I think.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: It's the lack of belief that I can go make money, the lack of belief that I'll be okay if I'm not, if my identity isn't wrapped up in my kids.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: That's like our attachment styles are being like.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: It's the codependency with children, I think, right.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: And then and then not knowing how to have a sense of security or well-being out in the workforce or out in the world doing other things independent of that role of mother or wife.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: So it's less about money and more about my belief in myself in other spaces that have gotten rusty or cloudy.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Right, if we knew we could, if we believe we could, then just go pick up a job and you make the money.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Is the secondary benefit, right?
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: It's the belief in oneself that's missing, or the maybe ego of it.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Do you think that's part of it?
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Like, is it embarrassing to have to go get a job sometimes?
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: We?
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: don't always really know.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: I think that that is part of it, but I think you're right with the worth and it's just the world we live in today, I think, is amazing with technology Like there's.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: So there are a lot of options and I get it.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: I look through a lens of abundance and opportunity and, yes, I have a particular.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: You know my education.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: You know I do have a lot of opportunity, for sure but, there still exists and I see it out there.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: So I I recognize that maybe there is an ego like, oh my gosh, am I going to have to go, you know, work at a restaurant or rate tables, and it's like I don't.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but I know that there's a lot of opportunity out there.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: And when I said that about the money though, but in a divorce I think many women feel trapped because they kind of gave up that part of themselves and and it's like you know.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: But when you get that back, you just feel you stronger and I think it goes.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: It's not just one thing, right, dawn, because your sense of worth feels better.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: You feel?
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: independent and maybe you are able to stick up for yourself more in your marriage that really might even help your marriage.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: And it may not be over.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: So I think it's very helpful and important for women to have that, and so that's something that when they come to us, it's really you very well may have to find an additional source of income and you are going to be okay and you know, and really you may be, I think could have the opportunity to really thrive.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Yes, I say that right, the divorce I mean.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: For me certainly divorce was a portal kind of to every good thing and that wasn't without its brutal growing pains, but it was such an opportunity for me to meet myself where I was right and grow, grow, grow yeah.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: And I think we all have those opportunities right, because we all have various points.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Life is filled with that's right challenges, challenges and obstacles, but we have a choice and you know I was.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know who I was talking to the other day and it's not that I made this up, I copied it from somebody, but it's like.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: You know, that might have been a tough lesson, that might've been a tough lesson, that might've been an expensive lesson, but don't lose the lesson Don't lose the lesson, Expensive as it may have been.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Don't lose the lesson.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Let's not lose that, because I do think you know things show up for us and sometimes I have I hadn't picked up on the lesson.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: So isn't it?
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: interesting how the universe kept putting me back to you again and again.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: So you're like, oh yeah, I'm not going to do it this way anymore.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Um, so I do feel like divorce presents a very unique opportunity, because it's such a life changing event.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: That you have, you can really reinvent yourself.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: You can really look at, okay, that you have, you can really reinvent yourself.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: You can really look at okay, now I can.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can, that's it, I can.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: I can redirect.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, talk to us a little bit about women and money.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: What do you notice us do?
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: Right, we talked about kind of the identity piece and needing to maybe go get a job or whatever.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: But what do you notice with women and money in general?
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: get a job or whatever.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: But what do you notice with women and money in general, I noticed that there is a um, there's some, you know I'll see more of a, a fear, um, in regards to sometimes even understanding the whole picture and maybe now, okay, you've got to take that responsibility.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: So there's definitely that part.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: And I do think that you know divorce costs money, right, like I mean, and for any of your listeners you don't know that it does.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: You know you are represented and you really do get what you pay for.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: And it's part of, like you know, looking at the overall, like you know, that money going towards your ultimate resort, resort result.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: But I also think you know, with women and money I, you know I've met the savers and I've met the spenders and I've said it on my show many times in many of the breadwinners, it's all it can be harder for them to go into the divorce process because they do not feel as though their husband is entitled to any of what they've worked so hard for.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, and in that it's tough Cause I mean, hey, first time I'd be like why I hear you, you, girl, but the law doesn't work that way, because then we as women take on more at work and at home, even if we are working, and so that can be a very difficult thing, but it again is something I do see on the other extreme, yes, I see so, even if they're working and earning or breadwinning.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: We want the end to be like the beginning, right.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: We want you to pick up the check in the beginning and we want you to pick up the check at the end, exactly, and and that's where it's like, you know, I, I don't know why we're wired that way, but we are, and so I recognize it and it's just like I, you know, I can see your point of view.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: I, you know, I can see your point of view, no doubt about it, really probably personally agree with you, but that the law is not going to support that and and that's what's hard and same with you know, well, I just want to stay at home.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: We agreed I would do this, and just because he wants to leave the mayor's like, I still want him, you know, to cover the check for this.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: And it's like I understand that, right, I do, but the law will not make him do that.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: There will be a certain point in that and that is tough.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: And so I think many women sometimes are like, well, I'm not going to go through with this.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: You know, if they were going to initiate the divorce when they don't think you know they're going to get the financial support that they would want.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: What resources do you wish women understood were available to them to understand more of this right?
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Maybe some of the resources are yours, like what?
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: What do you want women to look at to really inform themselves?
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: We have.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: We have some great resources because there are not a lot of books out there.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: We have one coming out probably in the fall of the end of this year, we'll have a great book on divorce for women.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: I have a lot of videos.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: One thing that we do have they can certainly, you know, contact us for is we compiled stories from our former clients to explain their process from the beginning to the end, and they each really had unique ones.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: There's about eight, and our book is called Time to Fly, and I think that is one of the best resources, because when you're contemplating divorce I think it's very often many women find themselves feeling very alone and they're.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: They're not yet ready to talk to anybody and they don't know who they would talk to about it.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: And so the idea behind this, to our gracious clients, former clients who gave their stories so that women don't feel so alone.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: So we can kind of see ourselves and maybe control and predict a little bit, like we love to do yeah.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: And be like, okay, she did do this because they're not sugarcoated.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: There's some difficult things, that, but yet they persevered and they're sharing that just to help other women.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: I think, no, you're not alone, even though it feels like it many times.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: And um, and that that's one of the biggest things is because you can do it, and we both know how resilient women are and how strong we are, and you know when, when we are, when we know we're ready, we got to do it.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: We can do it.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: We could do it.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: You know, I just was recording an episode earlier today on um it was just a little brief one, but on the nervous system, the red light, yellow light, green light or the nervous system.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: So when we feel alone or lonely, it's because we're perceiving threat or danger.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: So we're isolating right, because we can be alone and not feel lonely.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: That's alone and feeling safe.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: So alone and feeling threat is that kind of loneliness right.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: And so what we need in those moments is a perception that it's safe to connect with someone.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: And so that's what you've created right as a resource so that when I'm feeling like nervous system, yellow light or red light, you have stories, so that I can digest these stories, connect with these women and their stories and go more to a nervous system green light response feel less alone, safer, less threat.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Maybe hopefully I can right, it's possible.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that one.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: And then we, we have created a Facebook group just for women Um, it is called women winning divorce just to have those positive conversations and supportive conversations.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: You know, maybe you're you're thinking about the process, you've been through the process or you're in the process, but it's, you know, safe and somewhat anonymous, right?
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, facebook isn't totally but, you know, allowing a space for that conversation to be supported Because, again, that exactly what you said.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: And about the right you can be lonely in your home, right With your spouse, but you can also be alone and feel wonderful.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: So, again, exactly what you said with the red light, green light, yellow light.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: And you know, we just want women to feel that support so that they have the strength to make the decisions and make the choices that will help them out best and sometimes that is working on their marriage.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: A lot of times it is, but they need the strength.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: They need the strength to do that so they can show up how they want to in that relationship.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: And sometimes it's to end the marriage and you know that just goes in a different way.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: But you know we really are wanting women to feel supported and get resources.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: So they understand right.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: What can I expect?
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: What is going to happen during?
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: this process.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: Well, I just want our listeners to hear that there is an attorney out there who values nervous system health and transformation as much as legal outcomes.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, what an advocate you are for women.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: I'm so impressed.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: I know there was a reason we connected, so we'll put all those resources in the show notes for them to check out your Facebook group, your website, the book, all all the good things, right, your podcast Women Winning Divorce.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: They can find you there also.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: All right, thank you so much for being with us.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: Be well, dear.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: Divorce Diary is a podcast by MyCoachDawn.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: You can find more at mycoachdawncom.