Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Fedex Shooting - Brandon Hole

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Fedex Shooting - Brandon Hole · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: On April fifteenth, twenty twenty one, nineteen year old Brandon
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Scott Hole opened fire at a FedEx ground facility in Indianapolis,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: killing eight people and injuring several others before turning the
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: gun on himself. The attack, which lasted less than four minutes,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: became the deadliest mass shooting in Indiana's history and raised
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: urgent questions about missed warning signs, gun access, and mental
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: health intervention. This is the story of the FedEx shooting.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: and Grim, a true crime podcast.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: The following podcast in material intended.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: For mature audience listener discretion. He's advised, well, this is weird.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: What's weird?
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: I have a FedEx delivery arriving today, do you Yeah.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: I rarely ever get anything via FedEx, but today I'm
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: getting something, and today you're covering this case. That's like
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: kind of odd, isn't it.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a little bit, a little bit of a coincidence,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: maybe even serendipitous. Who knows?
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Feels odd?
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Now, Well, hopefully you just get your package and the
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: delivery person can get home safe at the end of
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: the day.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: No kidding, Oh, man.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: This is actually kind of an interesting story. There's not
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, I got a bit to talk about in it,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: but there's not a whole lot really to unravel in
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: this story, which is unfortunate. But I mean, like, we
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: don't have convictions and all that sort of thing after
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: the fact because the perpetrator turns the gun on themselves,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: So a lot of the things that we have are
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: from prior to the case and speculative things and discussions
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: that occurred after the fact. That makes any sense.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, what year was this?
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: I had occurred in twenty twenty one, so.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: For okay, yeah, because yeah, and like this is not
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: very old. No, So did you say that in the intro?
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: I did?
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: Oops.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Lots of times I'm just like, what did you say?
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: Again?
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know if other people have that problem, but
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: if I'm listening to an audiobook or a podcast, like
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: I rewind a lot because my mind just go somewhere
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: else for a hot minute, and then I'm like, what
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: the shit did they just say?
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: We actually had this conversation on discord the other day.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Oh really, Yeah, people talking about like, you know, having
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: to repeat things and listen back, and I was like,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: you know, there's situations where even when we're recording, we
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: have to stop and kind of go back because like
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: the person who's listening to the story sometimes zones out,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: and honestly, while I'm going through scripts sometimes I zone
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: out too, So even though I just read it, I'm like, wait,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: what did I read? Kind of like going back in
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: a book, you know.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Well, you see that meme to circulate every once in
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: a while where it's you're at the age now where
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: you need to like turn off the radio to focus
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: on driving or something like that. Yeah, if it's like
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: busy traffic or something, it's like this is too much.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: I can't. I can't like just turn the sound off.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I need to turn down the radio so I
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: can see where I'm going. Yes, But before we move
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: on to the show and talk about this case, we
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: do have some patrons to think, So shout out to John,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Alex Greeve, Alex Wright, Melissa Bursara, and Stephanie DeShane. They
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: all joined us over on Patreon get behind the scenes,
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: and of course they get that exclusive episode at the
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: end of the month.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: So good list of people.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, shout out to you guys, and thank you very
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: much for the support. We appreciate it, we sure do.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: But should we get into this case, let's do it, okay. Well,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: it started like any other night shift. It was Thursday,
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: April fifteenth, twenty twenty one, and it was just past
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: eleven pm at the FedEx ground facility near the Indianapolis Airport.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: The warehouse was buzzing with activity. Some workers were wrapping
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: up their shift, others were just clocking in. More than
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: one hundred people were inside, you know, sorting packages, moving
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: between loading docks, you know, vending machines and brake areas
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: even and that's when the first shot rang out. A
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: man in a hoodie stepped out of his car in
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: the parking lot. Without warning. He raised a rifle and
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: started shooting indiscriminately. Bullets sprayed across the lot, random, rapid
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: and terrifying. People dove behind cars and ran for buildings,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: or maybe even some who frozen place, not knowing what
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: to do. But by the time some workers realized what
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: was happening, he was already inside, trying to access the
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: actual workspace. He moved to the lobby and fired round
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: into the open space. Employees screamed and scattered, some tried
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: hid behind sorting equipment. Others ran back outside, straight into
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: more chaos. The shooter wasn't stopping. He returned to the
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: parking lot and kept firing at anyone in his path.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Calls began pouring into nine one one, things like, quote,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: we have shots fired, shots fired, they're still shooting as
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: we speak. Quote he's shooting at everybody. I don't know
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: how many he's hit. Quote we can't even get through
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: the turnstills, he's aiming a gun through them. But by
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: the time police pulled up to the building, eight people
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: were already murdered, four in the parking lot, four inside.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Several others were wounded, some barely made it out. One
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: employee later said that she hid under a trailer in
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: the loading area and stayed on the phone with a
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: dispatcher from nine to one one for more than thirty minutes.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: I'm sure if the shooter was still nearby or not,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: or where he was, what was happening. And the worst part,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: no one at the time had any idea why this
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: was happening or even who this guy was. Now, this shooter,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: he didn't come out of nowhere. Surveillance footage and witnesses
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: accounted later filling in that timeline. He pulled up to
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: the parking lot at about ten fifty four pm, and
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: there he sat in his car for a couple minutes.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: At first, no one really noticed, just another vehicle in
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: a sea of night shift workers or delivery trucks, you know,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: coming and going as constant as the minutes passed by
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: in a clock. Then he stepped out, wearing a black hoodie,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: a black mask, and armed with two legally purchased which
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: they would later find out ar style rifles. There were
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: no words that were spoken, there was no hesitation. He
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: just began open.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Firing, just like complete chaos.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Complete chaos, indiscriminately just kept firing.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Honestly, it would take me so long to even like.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Understand to process it.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because lots of times you even hear loud noises
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: and it could be a gunshot, but then your mind
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: doesn't go there, right, You're like you make an excuse
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: that it's something else or something right, like, you just
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: wouldn't expect that, so before you process what the hell
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: is even happening, it like very well could be too late.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: For you for sure, And that's it's human nature to
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: like make up those excuses to assume that it, oh,
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: it's not dangerous, like we're okay, you know. Yeah, it's
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: something that's built into us to think that, no, we're fine.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: The last time I heard like a huge bang, I
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: was like in the bath, and I was like, I
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: noted it. And then I just like carried on with
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: my day and oh that was nothing. And then you
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: like get out of the bath and there was like fire,
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: trugs and ambulances all on the road, and here there
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: was like a big accident, and I was just like,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: what it up?
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: You know, your brain makes that excuse right now. One
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: FedEx employee, still in their car, barely ducked down time.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Another ran for cover behind a concrete pillar. People outside
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: sprinted towards the building, yelling warnings for anyone else to
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: take cover and hide. Others didn't know where to go inside. Outside,
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: they both felt like a trap. So the shooter, after
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: coming out of their vehicle, made their way into the
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: entryway inside and kept firing. Now, according to witnesses, he
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: was shouting something, but no one could really make out
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: the words, whether it was through the gunshots, the chaosk
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: or the mask he was wearing. The words were just muffled.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: It wasn't a targeted attack on any individuals. There was
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: no specific person who was working there that was being
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: sought out. He was just firing into the open whoever
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: he saw. A few people tried to duck behind machines.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: According to multiple reports, one employee actually had a weapon
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: on them as well, So they had a legally owned
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: firearm which probably wasn't allowed to be on shift.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: In the workplace.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but I digress. They did take this weapon
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: and turned back and returned fire. Now presumably being like
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: a pistol or something like that that they would have had.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: I don't think the capacity of rounds in there would
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: have been very much. And this guy's got high capacity
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: AR rifles, so you can return a couple shots. But
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: that's about the gist of it. And that return fire,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: as I mentioned, missed and it didn't even slow the
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: gunman down. He just simply kept walking and kept shooting.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm actually not really familiar with those weapons. Is
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: that one where you're kind of hold the trigger and
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: like numerous rounds are kind of coming out or whatever.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: So fully automatic, so there's there's single shot, there's semi automatic,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: and fully automatic. I'm unaware. I'm pretty sure he had
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: fully automatic AR style AR fifteen rifles, but it was
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: at the very least semi automatic. So every time you
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: pull the trigger, a shot is fired, and you can
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: just keep pulling the trigger. No single shot. You generally
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: have to, like you know, reload and fully automatic, you
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: hold the trigger down and just keep shooting. But the
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: difference is he had high capacity magazines, which basically means
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: it's a clip that holds all your bullets, and you
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: have a high capacity, which means it holds a shit
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: ton of bullets.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: It basically means like you do not stand a.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Chance really pretty much. So I don't know how many
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: bullets a high capacity magazine of this firearm would hold.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Let's just say, for the sake of argument, it holds
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: thirty bullets. Okay, so thirty bullets versus your handgun, which
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: holds somewhere in the vicinity of maybe five six. Yeah,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: something like that. You don't stand a chance unless you
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: have a single perfect shot and you can take them out,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: which unfortunately this person missed. And that's all she really wrote.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: So yeah, he just kept firing, kept walking, didn't seem
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: to care.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: That's terrifying.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: He then made his way towards the facility's main entrance turnedstells,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: which are like those full height and metal revolving gates
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: of like open when you scan your proper id sort
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: of thing. Okay, this case, obviously it's a FedEx batch
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: because it's a FedEx facility. Now, this guy couldn't get
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: through those gates, but he didn't stop. He aimed between
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: the bars and kept shooting at anyone he saw on
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: the other side. Once he couldn't make his way into
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: the actual facility, he walked back out through the lobby
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: and back out into the parking lot and began firing
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: again at anyone else he saw who was leaving the
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: facility trying to get to their vehicles or escape. And
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: of course more chaos ensued and there were more bodies.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Good lord, this is just like he's like a madman,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: eh basically huh.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: Now, just a few minutes after it started, it was
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: all over. The shooter then turned the gun on himself
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: and ended his own life. From the first bullet to
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: the last, it happened in under four minutes. That's how
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: fast this went down.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: It seemed like it lasted way longer. Than that. And
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm assuming like for the victims and people
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: in the situation, it would have felt longer, right or
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: would it have felt shorter? Probably longer like forever.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: I'm sure it would have felt like forever. And now
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: here's the thing I mentioned already that there was one
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: person who was hiding and on the phone with nine
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: oh one for like half an hour, right, So this
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: happened for four minutes, but that terror kept going like
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: they didn't know where he was, what was happening. They
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: just were terrified and hiding and begging to survive basically yep. Now,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: when police arrived, they didn't find that standoff. They found
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: a massacre and a dead nineteen year old laying near
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: the lobby with two rifles by his side, both decked
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: out with my little pony stickers. His name was Brandon
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Scott Whole, and he was the one who went through
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: and shot eight people and killing them shot more, but
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: killed eight people.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, excuse me, so I don't need to wind where
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: the hell were the my little pony.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Stickers on the rifles?
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? Okay? That seems so I was
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: like on his bumper, like what Okay, no, he gone
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: on the firearms.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: They were decked out with my little pony.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Stickers, something so innocent, decked out on something so like evil. Yes,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: just that is very unexpected.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, Now, my little pony plays a little bit of
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: a part in this story. We'll talk about it here
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: in a little bit, but to the extent it plays
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: is definitely up for debate. But I digress. So it
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: seems like this wasn't a random act of violence, though,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: because Brandon had a history and this honestly probably could
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: have been all prevented. The day the system could have
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: stopped Brandon was March third, twenty twenty, almost exactly a
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: year before the shooting occurred. That morning, Sheila Hole, his mother,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: walked into the Indianapolis Police Department, not as a victim,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: but as a mother trying to stop her son from
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: becoming something of a monster, or even a victim himself.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Her son, Brandon had just turned eighteen. The day before,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: he bought a shotgun legal but no AMMO, just the gun,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: and Sheila confronted him about this and things got pretty tense.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Brandon snapped, He hit her in the arm, told her
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: to shut up and then drop the words. No parent
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: ever wants to hear quote, this is not the life
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: I want to live. I'll end it my way. So
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: imagine having your son say that after purchasing a shotgun.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I had to just process that for a minute
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: and I was like what yeah, dang.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: See. He continued on by saying that he was going
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: to point the gun at police so they'd shoot him.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Whoa aka suicide by police?
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Oh? Man, was he struggling?
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming definitely, and we'll get into it.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: So when that conversation hap happened, she had had enough.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Sheila and her daughter made a plan and went straight
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: to the police. Officers responded quickly. They went to the
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: house handcuffed Brandon without incident, but he was He was
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: anxious and panicking, saying, please just turn off the power
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: strip to my computer. I don't want anyone to see
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: what's on it.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Oh and he's saying this to police, yes, oh okay.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: This of course raised some eyebrows.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: And when officers went upstairs to retrieve the shotgun, they
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: also took a look at the monitor. What they saw
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: was exactly what you'd think. There was some heavy content,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: in particular some white supremacist websites, extreme material and search
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: histories that matched the profile of someone deeply disturbed. Still,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Brandon insisted he wasn't suicidal. He told officers that he
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: was depressed, felt sad, and would probably benefit from some counseling.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: This was all enough for them to place him under
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: an immediate detention mental health hold. They took him to
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: a local hospital and confiscated the shotgun. On the paperwork,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: they even wrote quote seized from dangerous person, so he's
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: labeled as a dangerous person that they seized this shotgun. Front.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: This sounds like the system is doing their job, and
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: the system is working. You know, the policies, the procedures
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: that are in place, they're being followed, and you know,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: things can be prevented here. But that hold on him,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: that mental health hold, it lasted less than two hours. Okay,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: there was no full psychological evaluation that was ever done,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: no criminal charges, no court date, no official red flag case.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: The computer was just left at home and not investigated
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: fully at all either. They just kind of took a
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: quick look and like, oh shit, there's some crazy shit here. Whatever,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: let's go take the shotgun and bring him in. And
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: then he was released two hours later.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Oh now that okay, I was expecting something a little different,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: But I mean, I don't know why considering what you've
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: already divulged here.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Now, that shotgun it was never returned, but the rest
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: of the system never really followed through the next day.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: It was just business as usual. And the problem was
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: that Brandon, he didn't just snap. There were a lot
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: of warning signs that just it went totally unchecked. See,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: by the time he walked into that FedEx facility with
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: those two rifles, he had been on a long, slow
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: decline and people had been worried about him for years.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: His trouble started in elementary school. He was already on
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: the radar, and by fourth grade he was diagnosed with
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: disruptive behavior disorder and anxiety, and possibly, though he wasn't
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: officially diagnosed, it was potential that he had OCD as well.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: He certainly showed the signs. He had outbursts, trouble focusing,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: difficulty connecting with other kids, and when you have your OCD.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: He had routines and if they were interrupted, those teens
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: had to start right over from the very beginning.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Oh okay.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: His mother said that as he got older, things only
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: got worse. In twenty thirteen, at the age of eleven,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: he attacked his mum. It wasn't just a tantrum. He
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: physically assaulted her and left her with minor injuries that
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: landed him on probation and into mandatory counseling. Still, the
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: pattern didn't stop. In twenty fifteen, he was diagnosed with
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: autism spectrum disorder. Over time, his behavior became so severe
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: that he couldn't attend school anymore. Police were called to
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: the house multiple times. At some point it became clear
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Brandon wasn't going to be graduating his family. They did
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: what they could. He saw therapists, he was enrolled in
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: behavior programs, but none of it stuck. His mental health
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: challenges were compounded by isolation, confusion about his identity, and
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: what seemed like a growing obsession with violence. Later investigators
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: would describe Brandon as someone who wanted to prove he
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: was capable, strong, in control, dangerous. He told people he
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: was interested in the military, and he started eating MREs,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: which are like those ready to eat meals, those rations
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: for soldiers and combat zones.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Now, In the summer of twenty twenty, Brandon made an
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: effort to step out on his own. At eighteen, he
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: moved out of his family home into a place by himself,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: something investigators would later say was part of his attempt
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: to assert independence, prove his capability. You know, kind of
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: like become a man almost, I guess, and I don't
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: say that it's kind of being a man is actually
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: part of what's going on here.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: He probably wasn't ready to be moving out on his own,
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: by the sounds of it.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: He may have been, but he wanted that masculinity and
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: that independence. That's what he was searching for now. Not
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: long after, he got a job at the FedEx ground facility.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: I was like waiting for this. I'm like he had
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: to have been working there or worked there.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: It was the very same one on the south side
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: of or sorry, southwest side of Indianapolis, and he worked
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: there as a package handler on the overnight shift. It
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: was a physically demanding job, but it gave him structure, paycheck,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: and at least outwardly a fresh start, and for a
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: while it looked like he was trying to put his
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: life together after years of instability, mental health struggles. At least, right,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: you know, he has something here. He has an independence.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: You know, he's got that feeling of being a man
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: for what he's trying to search for, and it's giving
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: him everything he's really looking for. But things didn't stick.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Within two months, he stopped showing up for his shifts
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: and he was fired in October of twenty twenty for absenteeisms.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: He moved back in with his family shortly after, and
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: according to the FBI, this failed attempt at that independence,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: losing his job, having to return home, it deeply affected him.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: It left him feeling defeated, emasculated, and unable to meet
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: expectations that he set out for himself. And that's the
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: big thing here, is what he's setting out for himself.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that going out and living on your
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: own and doing a job is something that makes someone
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: a man, you know, is a masculine thing. Those are
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: the parameters that he's setting for himself. Those are the
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: barriers that he's trying to overcome, saying, you know, if
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: I do these things, I'll feel better, I'll feel independent,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: I'll feel like a man. That's the sort of thing
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: that's going on.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: So he has quite like high expectations kind of for himself.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: I think at a pretty young age.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Really definitely, and maybe it's not necessarily expectations, but it's
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: hopes thinking, you know what, I can do this, and
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: if I can do this, I can do the next.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: And if one of those steps along the way fails
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: or he falters, then he beats himself up over it.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Now, over time that feeling it turned inward, and then
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: it became darker. Investigators would later conclude that his experience
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: during this period helped shape the motivation behind the attack
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: that he was well already quietly planning. And of course
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: there was the online world. Dark corners of the Internet
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: had fed into his mindset. There was Nazi propaganda, white
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: supremacist forums, hours of browsing through German military content from
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: World War II. Now, out of the more than one
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: hundred and seventy five thousand files on his computer, fewer
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: than two hundred were directly tied to that kind of content,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: but it was there. It was a fraction of what
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: he was searching for and what he was watching and
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: what he was saving, but it was part of it.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: It was enough to get noticed, but not enough to
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: get him stopped. By the time his mother went to
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: police in March of twenty twenty. The signs had been
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: flashing red for years, but after his brief hospital visit
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: of like two hours, he walked right back into civilian
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: life and right through the cracks of the system that
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: wasn't built to hold him. Now here's the part that
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: still makes many people furious. After Brandon's shotgun was taken
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: away by police in March of twenty twenty, and after
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: he was briefly hospitalized, there was a chance to stop
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: him from ever legally owning a gun. Indiana has what's
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: known as a red flag law, one of the earliest
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: in the country. It's supposed to give law enforcement a
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: way to step in when someone shows signs that they're
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: dangerous to themselves or others. The process is not too complicated.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: In fact, if police sees a weapon, prosecutors have fourteen
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: days to go in front of a judge and make
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: the case that this person shouldn't be allowed to buy
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: more guns or firearms. That never happened.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: Why the hell not, hey they had, because at one
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: point you said they had kind of deemed him a
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: dangerous person. Yes, so why they just didn't do this
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: one step further?
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: I guess they didn't.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Oh that is that's pretty shitty.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: It is. There's a caveat to it, though, which we'll
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: talk about in a little while.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: That shotgun that Brandon had purchased, it was never returned
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: to him, and neither Brandon nor his family asked for
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: it back. In fact, there is an interview like with
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: a psychologist I believe, or like a social type worker
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: who's on this case, and they're talking to Brandon and
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: they asked Brandon, what should we do with the gun
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: if you don't want to back and he's like, I
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: don't destroy it whatever, it doesn't matter, Okay.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: I do have to just say one thing though, regardless
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: of if they had done this, he still could have
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: probably got a weapon if he wanted one. It just
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: would have been a lot harder.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: It's hard to say potentially, I mean, where there's a will,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: there's a way. But at least it makes it much
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: harder to do this, you know, it makes someone think twice.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: There's more steps to go through it, right for sure,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: And at the very least it's not on legal conscience.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: You know, the person who legally sold him the gun.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: That sort of thing. Right now, maybe prosecutors thought this
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: was enough, but without a formal hearing, no red flag
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: ruling was ever filed. That meant Brandon's name was never
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: added to any list. There was no restriction or barrier
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: attached to his name. He was still free to walk
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: into a gun shop and buy whatever he wanted even
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: after that incident. And that's exactly what he did. In
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: July and September of twenty twenty, Brandon legally purchased to
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: ar fifteen style rifles from a licensed dealer. These were
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: the same guns that he'd bring back to the FedEx
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: facility seven months later. Now, these weren't black market guns.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: They weren't bought in secret. He passed background checks. The
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: system cleared him all because the case never made it
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: to a courtroom.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like, it definitely should not have been that easy
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: for him to just walk in there and get these
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: However, here's the kicker. If prosecutors had followed through and
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: gotten that red flag order, it would have only lasted
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: one year.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, it's not a forever kind of thing.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Yep. After that, they'd go back and proved that he
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: They would have to go back to court and prove
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: that he's still a danger. Okay, so by March twenty
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: twenty one, just weeks before the shooting, the restriction likely
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: would have expired anyways, so he potentially still could have
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: gone out and legally purchased firearms. Okay, it's hard to
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: say what difference it really would have made, but the
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: opportunity was there and it slipped away. But after his
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: brief stint in the hospital and the gun seizure, Brandon
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: he kept a low profile. He didn't have a job, now,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: you know, after he got let go from FedEx. He
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: wasn't in school. He mostly stayed at home. But while
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: the outside world saw a quiet kid trying to get
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: his life back together, something else was happening behind those
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: closed doors. According to investigators, Brandon spent at least nine
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: months planning this attack. He wasn't motivated by revenge on FedEx, though,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: I want to make that clear. He wasn't out to
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: settle a score with FedEx in you know, wrongful dismissal,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: or angry about him being fired or anything. In fact,
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: the fb I said this wasn't about an ideology, a race,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: or work grievance. They simply said that he chose FedEx
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: because he knew it.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's what I was thinking.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: He knew it, yeah, h he had Sorry, go ahead.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: I was just going to say, planning something for nine months. Hey, yeah,
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: that right there just is It's almost kind of it
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: gives you like an uneasy, creepy kind of feeling.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: It really does.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: These people for nine months you're living there like day
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: to day life, going to work and stuff, and they
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: literally no idea what the hell someone is doing?
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Yep, what's coming?
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: So he worked there in twenty twenty. He was familiar
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: with the layout, the security, the shift change patterns. He
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: knew the parking lot would be full. He knew when
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: you know people will be most vulnerable, that sort of thing.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: And he didn't talk to anyone about what he was planning.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: He didn't leave behind a manifesto. There was no clear message.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: The closest thing he posted came just an hour before
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: the shooting, which was on Facebook, and he wrote this quote,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: I hope that I can be with apple Jack in
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: the afterlife. My life has no meaning without her. If
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: there's no after life and she isn't real, then my
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: life never really mattered anyway. Now. Apple Jack, for context,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: is a cartoon Pony, a character from My Little Pony
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Friendship is Magic Show. Okay, so you see, Brandon is
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: what many people would call a bronie, part of a
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: niche internet subculture of mostly adult male fans of the
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: children's show.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: Oh I've never heard of this bronie.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah no, I'm pretty sure we talked about it before
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: actually on the show.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, Okay, well I've clearly forgotten.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: Clearly now, Brandon's obsession with My Little Pony may have
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: played a very heavy role in this story, potentially with
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: his disconnection from reality and the depths that he dove
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: into this show's world. But unfortunately it's not something we
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: really know much about. What we do know is that
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: this post was weird, sad, and rather confusing. I mean,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: he's talking about saying that if this cartoon character doesn't
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: exist in the afterlife, his life never meant anything, and
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: he's hoping to spend his afterlife with this cartoon character.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: There's a lot wrong psychologically with that.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Okay, this the show is meant for kids or whatever, right,
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: it's a kid's show. But for some reason, there's just
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: like a draw to some there's something.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: I could google this on the side.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: No, it's all good. It's all good. A lot of
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: this bronie culture, let's put it that way. Not all,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: but there's a lot within this culture that have sexualized
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: the show.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, okay, gross.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not saying Brandon did. I mean, he definitely
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: had some heartfelt attachment to the character apple Jack, for sure,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: but there is some connotations with the word bronie and
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: sexualization of my little pony.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Oh fuck, Okay, I wish I.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Didn't ask Oka sorry, which, honestly, it does make it
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: we understand it a little bit more knowing that. I mean,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: he's in his mind, he's doing this to try and
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: get himself killed so he can he can spend time
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: with the one he loves, probably the only one he loves. Yeah,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: so it is exactly what I just said. Weird, sad
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: and confusing.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I don't know what the hell to
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: say to this, So I'm yup.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: Now. Eight lives ended that night when Brandon opened fire
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: at the FedEx facility. Eight families were left with a
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: hole that they will never be able to fill. For
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: some of the victims, they had just started their jobs.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Others had been there for years. They were parents, teenagers, veterans, friends.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: For many of them, FedEx wasn't just a job. It
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: was a stepping stone, a means to support their family,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: or routine that kept them going. Matthew Alexander was thirty
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: two years old. He was a sports lover and a
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: loyal friend. Matt had been with FedEx for nearly a decade.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: He loved road tripping to baseball games, collecting babble heads,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: and handing out baseball cards to his buddies, always picking
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: out their favorite players.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: He just bought a house in the suburbs and was
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: finally feeling settled when he was killed.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, this is okay. We're going through all the victims,
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: aren't we. This is going to destroy us.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Samaria Blackwell was nineteen years old, the youngest of four siblings.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Samaria was athletic, full of drive, and deeply kind. She
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: played soccer, worked as a lifeguard, and wanted to become
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: a police officer one day. Her parents described her as
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: someone who naturally connected with older people, quietly, respectful, and
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: full of heart. Carly Smith was also nineteen. She was bubbly,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: outgoing and known for making people laugh. Carly had only
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: recently started working at FedEx. She was saving up for
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: her first car, studying for her driver's license, and planning
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: to start community college. She played softball in high school
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: and shared a close bond with her mom and siblings.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: They had dinner together every night. John Weissert was seventy
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: four years old. He was a retired Air Force veteran
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: and mechanical engineer. John had taken a part time job
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: at FedEx just to make ends meet. His wife had
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: been urging him to retire. He was hunched and slowing down,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: but he kept showing up. He was soft spoken, played guitar,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: loved old movies, and carried a quiet sense of duty
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: until the end. Amarjite Kuar Jahal was sixty six. She
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: had clocked out early that night just so she could
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: make it home to celebrate her granddaughter's birthday. Amarjite was
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: a grandmother, a cook, a caretaker, and a beloved presence
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: in her Sikh community. She made legendary bean dip and
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: attended temple every weekend. Her family begged her to stop working,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: but she insisted on on contributing. Jiswinder Singh was sixty eight.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: He just started at FedEx and was excited to collect
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: his first paycheck. Known for his gentle nature and devotion
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: to temple service, Joswinder lived nearby and volunteered daily in
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: the Sikh community kitchen. His life was rooted in prayer, humility,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: and helping others. Amarjit Sekhon was forty eight, a single
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: mom of two teenage sons. Amarjit had moved from Ohio
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: to be closer to family and had taken the night
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: shift at FedEx to support her kids. Her niece described
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: her as a sweet soul who was the glue of
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: their family and she never missed a weekend at temple visits.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Just Vender Kuar fifty. Just Vender was always thinking of others,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: especially her sons. Back in India, She was preparing to
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: help celebrate her granddaughter's birthday when she was killed. Her
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: family remembers her yogurt recipes and her quiet strength. She'd
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: been planning to get her drivers license so she could
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: be more independent. The shooting took less than four minutes.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: These were people, not statistics, and they deserved much more
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: than what they got in the end. In the hours
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: that followed the incident, the parking lot of the FedEx
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: facility turned into a scene we've come to know all
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: too well. Flashing lights, news cameras, Families huddled together waiting
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: for word. Some were reunited, while others got the call
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: that no one should ever have to take.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: FedEx created a relief fund and pledged one million dollars
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: to support the victims and families, but questions hung heavy
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: in the air about security, about policies, about how they
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: even got there in the first place. The company came
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: under fire for its no phone policy. See in many areas,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: they were not allowed to have their cell phones and
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: their persons while they were working on the floor. It
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: presents both a distractional safety hazard and a production issue.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: This policy, though, left many employees without a way to
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: call for help when the shooting had started. Families couldn't
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: reach their loved ones inside the warehouse, People hit under equipment,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: and they were completely cut off. That policy is still
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: being debated. I actually kind of understand this policy. I've
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: worked in places where there was no phone policies on
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: the floor, and I totally get it. Yeah, you're not
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: expecting a shooter in the workplace, right. Perhaps there could be,
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: you know, situations where emergency personnel do need to be called.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: But that's why supervisors are allowed to call or to
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: carry their phones for emergency personnel. So I totally understand it,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: but I also do understand why it's debated.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I guess it kind of it isolates
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: you slightly, right it does.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: But the problem is, like you're there for work, right
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: in an emergency situation, having everyone on a phone could
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: clog up emergency phone lines, right, it can make things
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: worse in all honesty.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: Well, and in some workplaces like it can cause danger
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: too if people distracted on their phone, right, So it
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: is like a safety thing too.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: It is a massive safety thing now in this connotation,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: if someone is on the phone with the loved one
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: in these you know, potentially last minutes of their life. Yeah,
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: of course we want them to have it, but that's
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: not what workplaces are where this is happening. Yeah, yeah,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: so I totally understand, but I do also understand the debate.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: But I do have to say I firmly agree with
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: the no cell phones on the floor. I really do.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: You should have certain personnel with phones with accessibility to call,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: being supervisors, managers, that sort of thing. But I Digress investigators.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: They combed through Brandon's computer, they comb through his phone,
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: his search history, and yes, because I mentioned there was
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Nazi and World War II content less than two hundred
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: files of the one hundred and seventy five thousand reviewed.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: But there was no evidence of bias or hate driven
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: ideology in what he'd done. It wasn't enough to suggest
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: a motive. But looking back, it's not like there weren't
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: obvious signs of things to come. There was this individual
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: who was on the radar for over a year before
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: FedEx shooting occurred. His mother warned police in March of
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty. He was talking about suicide by cop. Remember that.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he just.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Bought a shotgun. He hit her when she questioned him,
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: and when police arrived, he begged them to turn off
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: his computer and not look what was on there.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that yeah, right there.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: But the thing is they still saw some things on
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: his computer, white supremacist websites, Nazi content, There was violent talk.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: There was a lot of My Little Pony too, which
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: I mean doesn't necessarily fit in, but it was there.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: So you have questionable content in a computer. You have
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: a violent individual who's confessing to suicide by comp and
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: just purchased a shotgun. You think this meets all the
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: criteria for an individual who's going to go on and
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: do something like a mass shooting.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I guess the signs were there, but
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: also was there enough?
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: You know, I think there was definitely enough. But we'll
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: get into a little bit here because that whole like
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: red flag law, Yeah, it may not be as perfect
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: as people think. Okay, So the police took him under
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: Indiana's immediate detention law and the shotgun was confiscated. He
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: was held for a psychiatric evaluation and then released, although
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: that psychiatric evaluation was not a very full one.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: Okay. I'm like, yeah, how to what extent did they
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: do that? Because you think they would have found something there?
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: Well, as I mentioned, it was only two hours he was.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Held, right, Yeah.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: Now, the FBI followed up in April of twenty twenty,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: questioning him, but they closed the case. No criminal charges,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: no diagnosis, required commitment or anything. And critically that red
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: flag petition filed. There was nothing, nothing was filed with
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: that red flag law. That was the moment Indian as
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: red flag law gave authorities fourteen days to ask the
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: judge to bar him from buying more guns, and they didn't. Now,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: according to prosecutors, they believed taking the shotgun was enough,
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: and since the family didn't ask for it back, they
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: figured that the issue was resolved.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: You know, yes, but I don't think something like that
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: resolves that quickly either, right.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: You're right, you're right, because clearly it wasn't. Now Brandon
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: legally bought those two AR fifteen style rifles later that summer.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Because this sort of stuff didn't go through the system. Right,
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: all of this happened in the open without that system, sorry,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: with the system that was supposedly designed to stop it
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: from occurring. The law existed, the warning was there, The
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: chance to intervene was real and reachable, but it slipped.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: After the shooting, Marion County Prosecutor Ryan Meures faced heavy criticism.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: The Fraternal Order of Police accused him of sidestepping the process. Mears, however,
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: for his part, said the red flag law had too
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: many holes to be effective, which is why it was
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: not implemented in this situation. Because if they had taken
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Brandon to court saying that he's too dangerous and should
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: be barred from purchasing rifles. If they lost the case,
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: guess what what they'd have to give him the shotgun back?
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: Oh shit? Really yeah, and like, okay, I'm assuming too
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: he can probably be present in there. Oh yeah, defending
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: himself or whatnot.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, this is a legal proceeding. Yeah, okay, So
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: now we understand why they didn't proceed with this red
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: flag law and try and get them barred. Yeah, because
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: it's two sides of the corner, and is either he
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: gets all the fucking guns he wants now or huh,
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: you know, we hope it's resolved and we.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Take the one that he has at the moment exactly.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: Oh that is really tough. Ah.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: So they didn't even try.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: Oh I don't love that at all.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: So it wasn't just a single missed opportunity. It was
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: a chain of events that led to this. With my
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: safety background, we call this the Swiss cheese effect, because
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: you line up a bunch of pieces of Swiss cheese
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: all with the holes in them, and eventually you line
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: them up long enough, there's going to be a hole
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: leading right through all of them and stuff falls through. Now,
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: by the time anyone realized how fragile that chain was
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: or in my case, the Swiss cheese pile was effect. Yeah,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: eight people were dead, gosh, And that weekend Indianapolis grieved hard.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: There were candlelight vigils at city parks, Prayers prayer circle
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: were happening outside Seek temples for the four murdered members
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: of the Sikh community who work there. Family members stood
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: in front of microphones struggling to put their pain into words.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: And honestly, in the Sek community there was it was
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: hard not to feel targeted for it to be racial,
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: because you have this racial content found in his computer.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: He worked there before. There's a heavy Seak community working
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: at this place. So though it's not official that they
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: say it was a racial driven situation, it's hard not
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: to feel that it may have been.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: It's it definitely like, yeah, it crossed my mind for sure.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: Mayor Joe Hoagsitt called it a quote scourge of gun violence.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: Community leaders said enough was enough, and President Joe Biden
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: at the time ordered a flags to be flown half mass,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: calling the shooting the country's repeated failure to stop this
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: kind of violence quote a national embarrassment.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, I just have a slight question here. This eight
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: people dead, is that including him or or does that
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: make it nine?
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: No, that's eight people murdered.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: Sorry, Okay, I wasn't certain. Okay, damn So he was
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: and half of them are from that one community.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Correct, Yeah, so he would be the ninth dead. So
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: you have eight murdered, one self deleted, and several injured.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, I would imagine.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: Now, one speaker at this about this said basically what
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: a lot of people were thinking. Quote, you're not wondering
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: if there will be another math shooting, You're wondering when. Yep,
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: because this is a very well known thing at this
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: point that in the United States of America there is
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: an epidemic in regards to mass shootings occurring. In fact,
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: there's memes about it occurring in schools and stuff you
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: can find on like Instagram and the Internet all over
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: the place.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so, it's really fucked up, actually it is. Now.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: In the weeks that followed the shooting in Indianapolis was quiet.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: It felt very different. There was grief, yes, but also
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: in the sense of a collective exhaustion. Another mass shooting
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: in America, another round of funerals, another group of families
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: that were shattered, people started asking what now, what can
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: actually change the seat. Community still in mourning leaned in tradition.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: Temples held daily prayer services. Community kitchens served meals to
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: anyone who walked in. It was part of healing, part protest,
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: as well an active resilience in the face of fear.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: At Arsenal Park, eight trees were planted in memory of
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: the victims, one for each life that was lost. Politicians
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: offered condolences, some offered more than others. Democrats in the
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: state House. They pushed for stronger red flag legislations, hoping
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: to close the very gap that let Brandon buy those
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: guns in the first place, but it stalled and the
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: session ended before an thing passed. In April of twenty
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: twenty three, two years after the shooting, some of the
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: victim's families filed a lawsuit against the US distributor and
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: German manufacture of high capacity magazines used in the shooting.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: They wanted someone, anyone, to be held accountable. If the
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: system wouldn't change through laws, maybe it could change through
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: the courts. Meanwhile, people kept showing up to vigils, They
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: kept sharing stories. Some just needed to say their loved
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: one's names out loud again. Others needed to make sure
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: that no one was forgotten. The FedEx shooting in Indianapolis
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: wasn't just another entry in a long list of American
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: mass shootings. In fact, each shooting has its own tragic
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: tale that needs to be looked at much closer, and
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: in this case, it's the story of a young man
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: spiraling alone, a family, asking for help, and getting lost
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: in the system, and also a red flag law that
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: looked good on paper but fell flat when it mattered.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: Most Like most things in today's modern world, laws, procedures,
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: and legislations are great in theory, but it's only ever
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: on paper. Practical real world situations work much differently. This
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: incident wasn't about ideology. It wasn't about revenge. It wasn't
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: about the hate that was in someone, at least not
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: in the traditional sense. It was something much harder to define,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: a need to feel power, a desire even to die,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: but not quietly. The FBI called it a suicidal murder.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: The shooter wanted to prove something about masculinity or strength,
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: about the ability to take lives before ending their own.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: That's what makes this case so frustrating. It didn't fit
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: the usual mold that we're used to. There's no manifesto,
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: no list of enemies, or grand justification, just silence, planning,
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: and calm leading up to chaos. But that doesn't mean
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: the red flags weren't there. His mother saw it, the
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: police saw it, even he somehow seemed to know something
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: was broken, but still nothing stopped him. And that's the
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: worst part, because for every high profile shooting case that
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: dominates headlines, there are dozens more that are just close calls,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: people in crisis, families asking for help, and systems not listening.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: This story, as brutal and senseless as it was, it's
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: a glaring reminder of the truth. It's not always about politics.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's about what happens when nobody is willing to
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: connect the dots, something we have talked about time and
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: time again on this show, due diligence. It's a lack
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: of caring and turning a blind eye even when all
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: the signs are there. Now, I want to end today's
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: episode with a quote from Brandon's mother, Sheila Hole, spoke
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: candidly and emotionally about her son's mental health, her attempts
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: to intervene in the grief and horror she felt after
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: the shooting. During the interview, she recalled how she begged
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: authorities to take his threats seriously more than a year
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: before the attack occurred, especially after he told her you
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: want to provoke police into killing him. After that tragedy,
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: she expressed profound remorse and sorrow, not primarily for her son,
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: but more for the victims. To quote her quote, I'll
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: mourn the victims more than I'll mourn him, damn. And
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: that's the story of the FedEx shooting.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: I was wondering, like I had thought about the mother too.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: I'm like, this probably just completely destroyed her.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: Really, yeah, I imagine so.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Because yeah, she did try. And like, oh man, oh man,
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: this one is horrible because I hate I mean, any
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: death is like terrible and and stuff, right, but to
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: lose a loved one, I feel like in this sort
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: of way, so unexpectedly, and you know a lot of
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: them had so much more life to live and stuff,
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: and I just think, yeah, that would not be easy
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: because there was literally no reason for this to happen.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: Not at all. I mean, in situations you can point to,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: you know, natural disasters or something happening, a failure and
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: a mechanical device that causes you know, a car to
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: convene off, veer off a road or or something. There's reasons,
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: there's explanations, there's something to point to. The only thing
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: we have to point to is a person. But there
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: is zero why and that hurts so much.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and a system that kind of failed to right,
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: so it would make you more angry really.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: But that one though, is again we don't have a
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: why from the system. We just have excuses from a system. Yeah,
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: because it's not like that red flag policy or the
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: red flag law or whatever has been fixed since it's
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: still just sitting there.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's so fucked up to that, Like
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: someone is struggling and they they go and take you know,
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: here in this instant eight other people's lives with them,
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: Like holy shit, Yeah it is. It's just not okay.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: It's really not all to prove something to themselves that
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: they think proved something to other people about masculinity or
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: independence or power. It proves nothing.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: But in the end, does it act you know, like
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: before he took his own life, did he prove anything
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: to himself? Probably not really.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: Delusionally, I bet you he did. I bet you he
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: felt something. Whether that was a delusion or whether it
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: was reality. I mean, I'm heavily leaning on the side
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: of delusion, but I could see it being up for debate.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: But I digress. I'm sure he felt something of proof
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: of his concept that he is going out and seeking.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: He's saying, I'm gonna do this, so I can, you know,
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: have this ability above you and I like I killed you.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: I'm stronger than you, I have more power than you.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: You're running away from me in fear, you know.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, And the thing is too how long he
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: went about planning it, right, So it's like very very premeditated.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, which also, like everything just makes it worse, really,
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: it just makes it harder process and shittier feeling.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: I just really hope that something can be figured out
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: soon in regards to these mass shootings. I mean, governments
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: really need to be taking things seriously and obviously like
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: they are to many degrees. Could you have this red
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: flag law being put in place now? Is it faulty? Sure,
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: it's a new law, but they are putting legislation in place.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: Does more need to be done, yes, yeah, but there
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: is some attempts at.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: And it's not fully a United States issue, like we
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: get we have them here too, there was one not
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: that long ago, and gosh yeah, I mean, but it's
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: also hard because I think you can do you can
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: do certain things, but I also think, yeah, if there's
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: a will, there's a way, and if someone really wants
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: to do this, they're going to figure it out, I guess, right,
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: which is horrible.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like you said, when there's a will, there's a way,
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: it's right, It's very true, and it's unfortunate. Anyways, that
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: was a heavy episode. I don't really like covering mass
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: shootings all that much generally because people who do it,
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: they're looking for that attention. But I also do think
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: it's a topic that we really need to discuss because
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: it's something that it takes so many lives. There's a
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: lot of people who need help, who can commit these crimes,
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: and you know what, something needs to be done well.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: And we didn't even touch on the fact that the
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: people that had to show up that night, like the
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: first responders, holy shit, Yeah, the scene that they're walking
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: into definitely, you know, oh goshfect it just like the
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: list of people that this incident affected is huge.
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, first responders, the.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: Communities like the city that you know.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: Frick Yeah, it's a spider web. It just goes out
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: from there. Anyways, Thank you for being here. Don't forget
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: to check out the description in this podcast for more
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: more links and stuff. We have another podcast, did you
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: know that. It's called Fearful. You can go and listen
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: to it. It covers some spooky things, historical, paranormal, that
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: sort of stuff. Check it out. Also check out the
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: other links. We appreciate review or an independent podcast myself Nicole.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: It's us, no one else owns it. We do the research,
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: the writing, the talking, the editing, the uploading, the social
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: media what else, patroon, Patreon, all the social media, we do,
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: all the things. It's us and only us, So we
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: appreciate all the support and thank you for being here.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: And until next time, stay wicked.