Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 46 yr-old George Floyd dead, face down on pavement. WHAT REALLY HAPPENED?

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46 yr-old George Floyd dead, face down on pavement. WHAT REALLY HAPPENED? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: From Minneapolis to New York, to DC to Atlanta to California.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Riots across our country. Why because George Floyd was killed
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: by a cop? Over what crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: George Floyd was killed? Buy a cop. I'm Nancy Grace.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. More tense clashes around the country,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: including this standoff of the Berkeley Center in Brooklyn, where
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: a police car burned as officers pepper sprayed the crowd,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: and in Detroit, demonstrations turned deadly when someone fired shots
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: into a crowd, killing a nineteen year old man. Officials
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: say police were not involved. From Louisville, still reeling over
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: the death of twenty six year old Brianna Taylor, killed
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: by police officers as they served a narcotics warrant. It's
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: like directly at US where NBC affiliate Wave three reporter
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: and crew came under fire from police. To San Jose,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: California protesters they are flooding a freeway, smashing windows with
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: drivers still inside before clashing with police. And Cincinnati, where
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: protesters stormed the area's Justice Center. Calls for justice echoing
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: through city after city while amid the escalating tensions, many
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: are hoping the message does not get lost. But it
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: keeps happening, no matter what's done, no matter how many protests,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: it keeps happening. It's always been happening, but now it's
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: just recording. That's why it's getting seymore. Our friends at
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: NBC Today, that was Blaine Alexander detailing the riots that
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: are taking over and tearing our country apart. Why over
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: the death of George Floyd? What really happened? And how
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: is looting a Gucci store gonna fix it? You know
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: you've got two theories. You've got the MLK theory peaceful
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: nonviolent protests. You got the Malcolm X theory. They're not listening,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: so violence is necessary. What is the answer? How many
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: lives will it take? Let's just start at the beginning,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: joining me an all star panel, New York lawyer Jason
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Oceans Karen Start, New York psychologist at Karen Start dot com.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: James shell Nutt twenty seven years Atlanta Metro Major Case
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Division swat now lawyer at snut Firm dot com. Professor Forensics,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, death investigator, author of Blood Beneath My
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Feet on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan and Sierra Gillespie investigative
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: reporter Crime online dot Com. Everybody take a listen to this.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: For thirty one years, Cut Foods has been a part
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: of this South Minneapolis community. We don't just work in
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: that community. That is our community. We know the community.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: It's a vibe that is unmatched to another community. It's
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: the best thing that's happened to our family. The family
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: owned business has come under fire after a phone call
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: to police about the passing of a counterfeit twenty dollar bill.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: The staff that called the police followed protocol when he
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: identified the bill is fake. The patron was out of
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: the establishment when the police arrived. He was outside of
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: the establishment, which normally never takes place while he was
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: still there. We're not sure. Most of the time, when
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: patrons give us a counterfeit bill, they don't even know
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: it's fake. So when the police are called, there's no
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: crime being committed. They just want to know where they
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: got it from, and that's usually what takes place. It's
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: hard for me to imagine all this started over twenty
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: dollar counterfeit bill. Having prosecuted violent felonies for my whole
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: legal career almost. I would never even assume there'd be
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: an arrest over one twenty dollar bill. But why is
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: cup Foods falling under attack? They got a counterfeit, they
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: call a cost. Thats what they're supposed to do, and
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: to U Sierra Gillespie, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter,
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  Speaker 1: I imagine the reason George Floyd was still outside was
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: either a he didn't know he had used a counterfeit,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: and he I believe bought a pack of cigarettes and
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: was having a smoke. I imagine that's what happened. But
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: fill me in, Sierra Gillespie, how did the whole thing start? All? Right?
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: So it was pretty basic. As you said, he was outside,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: nothing really was going on at the time. I mean,
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: he was just kind of hanging out in a vehicle
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: with a couple other people when the officers arrived. And
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: from what we've heard over and over again in the
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: weeks since this happened, he wasn't violence in any way,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: and he wasn't resisting arrest in anyway. We've seen this
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: on surveillance video and some of the video that bystanders
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: there were shooting. He didn't resist arrest, he didn't put
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: up a fight, and he was going along with everything
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: that the officers were asking. Overall, agree with you two
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: hundred percent, sire. However, there was a struggle inside the
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: police car. I believe they were transferring him from one
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: cop car to another. You can see a struggle in there,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: and according to reports, he was saying, I'm claustrophobic. He's
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: having a hard time. I don't know that that amounts
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: to a struggle, but there was some something going on
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: in the car. Here's the other thing to Jason Oceans.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Even if there was a brief struggle inside the back
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: of the police car before he was taken out, that
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: would still not justify what happened. Time had passed. The
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: guy was laying on the ground, face down, so any
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: pre vs. Resistance due to claustrophobia or whatever reason wouldn't matter.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: You're correct, Nancy. I mean what you're taught at the
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: academy or any retraining is that once you have the
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: suspect under control, that's it. You've got them under control.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: So as he's down on the ground with you know,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: handcuffed at that point, if he was still being belligerent,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: you would simply carry him and place him in in
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: the vehicle. But you know another thing at that point
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: that he was violent. I can't really trust what I'm
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: seeing in the headlines and on TV. I'll tell you
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: what I found. It was on Washington Post website, Jason
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: and they had gathered surveillance video from cup Foods where
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: the counterfeit bill started, from sidewalk video there at thirty
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: a street, from people's cell phones, from all different surveillance videos.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, and they threw in police and EMT calls.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: I believe it's mostly ambulance calls. And you can put
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: together a timeline and really see for yourself everything that
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: we know so far happened. I found that at Washington Post. Guys,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: from there, this is where it starts going sideways. You
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: were listening to CBSWCCO for Minneapolis Reg Chapman. Now listen
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: to Minneapolis Fox nine KMSP listen. The initial nine one
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: one call about a forgery in progress came in at
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  Speaker 1: eight o two Monday evening. Two officers walk across the
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: street and approach opposite sides of the vehicle, which already
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: had at least one door open. The officer on the
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: passenger side, shining a flashlight in the suv as a
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: man gets out. At that same time, George Floyd and
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: one of the other officers on the driver's side begins
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: to visibly struggle and the other officer comes to assist. Meanwhile,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: the man in the front passenger seat and a woman
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: in the backseat exit the vehicle. At this point, Floyd
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: is clearly cuffed and walked away from the suv and
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: seated on the sidewalk just as a park Police vehicle
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: pulls up to assist. Through body camera footage from the
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: park Police, we see officers taking notes, talking with witnesses,
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: and things appear to be calm and routine. It did.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: It did to James Shelnutt, twenty seven years Metro major
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: case including Swat now lawyer. It all seemed okay. I
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: watched myself where the cops go to the suv where
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Floyd is sitting, they get him out. At first I
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: thought there was a struggle right there, but it looks
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: as if they reached it and pulled him out and
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: immediately handcuffed and moves very quick and James and they
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: walk him over to the sidewalk and sit him down,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: no problem, still cuffed. Would you agree with that procedure
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: that far, Yes, so far at that one time textbook,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: I do aggre it wouldn't. I mean, I'm not sure
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: why it had to be cuffed on a counterfeit twenty.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know what was said inside Floyd's SUV that
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: he was sitting in, but he got arrested and so far,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: so good. He's cuffed, he's sitting on the sidewalk, no problem.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Where does everything go? Sideways? Time stories with Nancy Grace?
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Why are there riots? Because this guy was killed by
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: a cop. That's why the guy was down. He was
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: no longer resisting arrest. Why did this happen? I am
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: not taking his laying down. I am not taking it
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: without a fight. Listen to KMSP. Floyd is then escorted
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: across the street to the waiting patrol car. From there
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: we can see the struggle continue. It's unclear how much
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: time passes, but next we see the witness video, which
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: has now been seen around the world. Over the course
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: of the next three and a half minutes, Floyd is
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: heard saying please, I can't breathe, or a combination of
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: both at least fourteen times, as people on the sidewalk
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: beg the officer to get off him or the other
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: officers to intervene. I will right. Less than three and
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: a half minutes into the video, Floyd goes quiet. According
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: to the Minneapolis fire incident Report, EMTs recalled to the
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: scene at eight thirty, arriving two minutes later. Medics performed
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: pulse checks several times, finding Floyd's time of death at
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: HCMC officially declared at nine five pm. In about an hour.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: It was all over one hour. It's gone over. What
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  Speaker 1: a twenty dollar bill? You know. I want to go
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: back to you, Jason Oceans, New York defense attorney. The
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: law is, you cannot shoot a fleeting felon unless they're
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: in the commission or you think they're in the commission
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: of an ongoing violent, violent crime. You can't just start shooting.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: So why when this guy is laying face down on
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: the street, why was he suffocated dead? I just I
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: don't understand it. And you know what breaks my heart
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: so much, Jason, is people are coming up. You gotta
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: look at that video I told you about At Washington Post.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: People are coming up, going, hey, let him up. People
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: are taking pictures and videoing and asking the cops to
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: get often one cop I think takes his pulse right
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: there and can't find a pulse, but nobody does anything. Jason. Yeah,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: that's the shocking part in that aspect of the video
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: is clearly you see him within procedure now secured, face down,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: hands behind the back off. I mean, he in that
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: position was not struggling in any way. And that's you know,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: that's that's the disconnect right there. Why if he is
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: complying at that time, regardless of anything else that happened
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: up to it, and we all agree he seemed to
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: be compliant. Jackie in the studio keeps waving notes at
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: me that the COD is not suffocation. Actually, Joe got Morgan.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: The family has called in an independent autopsy for an
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: independent pathologist, and Joe got Morgan. Let me jump ahead
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: from where we are right now. But the officials CD
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: is a mixture. They're saying heart problems. Well, I mean,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: explain to me what the official COD cause of death is. Yeah,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: what they're saying, Nancy, is that initially and this is
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: just a preliminary finding because we don't have talked yet.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: What they're saying is that he did, in fact have
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: hypotensive cardiovascular disease, which high blood pressure. Just so folks, yeah,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: high blood pressure. But there's also like you can see
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: that in the heart. What happens is is the heart
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: muscle itself actually thickens. Okay, Now that's also associated with
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: the heart disease, which you know people think about all this,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: which I think, please please, Yeah, I can see the
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: man on the ground with a knee on his threat
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: And are you actually telling me he died of a
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: pre existing heart issue. I'd love pressure. No, I'm Hennepin
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: County medical examiners saying that. And do you believe that?
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Am I supposed to believe him? Are my lion eyes?
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Just tell me, Joe Scott. Please, it's like you shoot
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: him and go, oh yeah, he died of a heart attack. Yeah. Yeah.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: You have to ask yourself the question would he have
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: died under any other circumstances, like if he had just
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: been walking down the street and I probably without the
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: police intervening. If he's got this kind of severe cardiac problem, okay,
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: or a clusion in his vessels. You pile on literally
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: not figuratively, but literally with this gentleman. His system is
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: already compromised to this point. So it's just enough to
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: push him over the edge. And you have to keep
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: in mind, Nancy, he's saying that he can't breathe. You
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: already stated that he was a smoker in addition, so
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: he's compromised from a respiratory standpoint, his oxygen uptake is compromised.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: So when you get him pinned to the ground like this,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: and we know that this is wrong that you place
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: your knee on somebody's neck, because you can cause neurological problems.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: You can break his bones in his neck. It just
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: goes not to mention. You can suffocate it. But right
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: now they're not saying that yet. What they're saying is
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: is that they're waiting for the tops to come in. Okay,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: So they're saying preexisting blood heart problem and they said
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: about that included in that was something that happened and police,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: what impairment? What exactly are they trying to say? Well,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: I think what they're the road that they're going to
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: go down with this see is actually a condition I
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: know you've heard of before. It's excited delirium, and that
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: is it goes back. It was actually first identified back
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: in the eighteen hundreds. And what this means is that,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: you know, let's go back to what he said, I'm claustrophobic.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: I'm claustrophobic. That's an indication that this guy has got
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: something going on in his mind. I'm cloustrophobic by nature.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: I don't like to be in tight spaces. You pinned
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: somebody down, and now you're blowing their blood pressure and
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: their pulse rate up, You're reducing their oxygen uptake. It
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: is a lethal combination. The problem, you know, he's compliant.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: The police are not compliant in this if they were
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: actually taking time. The most striking thing about this entire
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: thing is that the officer is sitting there, uh, you know,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: on in the street with George on the ground, and
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: his knee is on his neck, and it's very nonchalant.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: He's got his in the army we used to call that.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: He was John Wayning. He's got his hands in his
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: pocket with his knee and he's just kind of casually
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: looking around. And this man is begging for his life
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: and suddenly he goes silent. They don't get anything else
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: out of him. After he's actually calling Mama, Mama, to
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: think Karen Stark psychologists joining me out of New York.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: This grown man, in his last minutes is calling for
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: his mother while a knee was dug into his neck,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: and of all people, by a cop. I mean, you know, Karen,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: I will bend over backwards to support the cops, to
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: support our justice system, to support prosecutors, and try to
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: understand why they do what they I cannot support this.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: I get the riots. I understand why everybody's crazy angry.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: I don't get looting Gucci or any other store. I
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: contacted my longtime friend, you know, were Well Eleanor Eleanor
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Owdom that I prosecuted with in DC. Guess where they
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: were right before we went to air. She and her
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: husband Peter were walking to their church because it was
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: attacked last night and they're trying to go over there
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: and help fix it. Now. I don't know how that's
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: honoring mister Floyd, but I do know why everybody's angry.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: The fact that he's calling out for his mother. I mean,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: they couldn't hear that, but as you could tell, Nancy,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: they might have been able to hear it. I'm sure
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: they heard it. But this guy. I like what Joe
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: said that it had to do with him having this
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: John Wayne's stance where he could care less what he
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: was saying, and the fact that he was calling for
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: his mother tells you he was dying. He was desperate.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: I heard my own mother call for her mother when
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: she was really, really in pain. As for the violence,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: it's not a surprise to me. When you take huge
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: crowds of people who are frustrated and filled with hurt
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: about the way they've been treated in the system, about racism, discrimination,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: and you have them in this tense environments so many people,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: it's inevitable that violence is going to occur. Either the
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: police will react and the respond to that, or their
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: frustrations will boil over. It's a crowd mentality. It's very
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: different than an individual crime stories with Nancy Grace. The
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: death of forty six year old George Floyd has sparked
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: protests and violence all across our country. And it's easy
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: to say that the violence of the protests are tearing
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: our country apart. But what about as I see it,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: the murder of George Floyd. Video surveillance is show in
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: a struggle and a struggle with police in the back
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: of the police car before being pulled out. Now, many
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: would argue, let me go to you, James shell Night,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: you were twenty seven years metro major case detective swat
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: now lawyer. Many are arguing, well, he put up a
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: fight in the back of the police car. All right,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: that's bad. Don't put up a fight against cops. But
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: my point is, once he's pulled out and put on
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: the ground in handcuffs, he's subdued. Why why didn't have
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: to go further than that? What should the cop? What
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: should the cop have done? Shall Nut Well, I don't
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: understand why you take a combative individual out of a
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: police car anyway. I understand that sometimes try to kick one.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: That's a good point. Yeah, I mean I've had windows
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: get the back of cars. Well, put people in the
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: back of cars. I get it. I understand. That's just
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: a bad idea to me. You know, there's ankle restraints
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: and leg restraints to prevent people from and that's a
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: bad idea. But number two, once you take him out
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: and you put somebody on the ground that they're on
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: their stomach, it is not very difficult to control that
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: person if they are handcuff You know, there's simple techniques
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: such as raising the wrist up and there a little further.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: It doesn't take putting your knee on the back of
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: someone's nick to maintain control of a manness on the ground.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: I just I can't fathom under what training scenario or
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: what real life scenario that that would be appropriate. Take
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: a listen to our friends. In Minneapolis's WCCO four Christianne Kadero,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Floyd was arrested around eight pm for forgery, a non
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: violent crime that implies he tried to use forged documents
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: at a nearby deli. Officers say he resisted arrest before
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: this person started filming. You can see him struggling, saying
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: I can't breathe. Another officer faces the crowd the whole time.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: What you cannot see is what happens. Four minutes in
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Floyd appears to go unconscious. The MPD officer holds his
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: knee on him for another four minutes until he pulled
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: onto a stretcher, then taken to HCMC, where he died.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Minneapolis Mayor Jacob fry I saw this entire video, called
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: it wrong on every level. This does not reflect the
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: values that Chief Arredondo has worked tirelessly to instill. It
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: does not represent the training we've invested in or the
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: measures we've taken to ensure accountability. We're learning more about
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: what happened inside the Cup Foods. Back to Minneapolis WCCO,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: this is esmy. Murphy County Attorney Mike Freeman was overheard
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: telling a reporter that all four police officers had invoked
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: their Fifth Amendment rights against self incrimination and we're not cooperating.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Police also release the transcript of the nine on one
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: call from Cup Foods. The nine on one caller says
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: a man gave them fake bills and that the man
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: is sitting on his car because he is awfully drunk
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: and he's not in control of himself. The nine on
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: one caller seems more concerned about the man then fearful,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: telling the dispatcher he's not acting right now. The medical
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: examiner announced this evening they are waiting on lab results
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: for a final determination of cause of death in this case.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Legal ex world say the cause of death is critical
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: because if it turns out to be asphyxiation, that and
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: that video would make prosecutor's jobs much easier. Let me
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: understand something inside the cut video to Sierra Gillespie investigative
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: reporter Crime online dot Com Sierra. In the video we
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: see him lying there flat, not moving, but in cup foods.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: They say he was acting strangely. What do we know, Yeah, Nancy,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: he was acting a little bit out of the norm
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: of character. We are still waiting on toxicology. We touched
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: on that a little bit, so people are kind of
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: at a question mark here. What was really in his system.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: He could have, I don't know, represented a little bit
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: of a runk person at times, kind of fumbling around
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: a bit, but it was nothing that was belligerent in
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: the store. It was nothing that was caused for we
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: need police here right now because we're hearing for our danger.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: It wasn't something like this. It was just more, this
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: guy isn't really right right now. We have this twenty
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: dollars counterfeit bill. We need to call police because that's
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: kind of protocols. Apparently Weaving having difficulty walking and that
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: was before nine one one was called. But it seems
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: to me, Jose Scott Morgan, then if you were drunk,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: if you haven't drinking, that you'd be even easier to subdue.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: It's not like he was belligerent or angry not an angry,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: agitated drunk, but as an unsteady on your feet drunk.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: If that that makes it seem like it would be
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: easier to subdue him, Joe Scott. Yeah, if that, in
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: fact is the agent that we're talking about from a
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: chemical standpoint, if it's if it's something other, it could
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: trigger another response. So that's why they're waiting on talks. Well,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: it's not necessarily completely why talks is interminably slow, as
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: you well know, uh, you know, in dealing with the cases.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: And they're going to do a standard panel on him, Nancy.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: They're gonna look not only for a BA which is
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: a blood alcohol level to see if that was on board,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: but they're also going to look for standard things like opiates.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: They're going to look for benzodiazepine. They're gonna look for cocaine, metabolite,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: and even THC. All of that stuff will be covered.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: I think that they're going to fast track this. I
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: would imagine this isn't going to be like you know,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: in the old days, where we had to sit around
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: and wait and wait and wait and wait. And there's
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: also a political aspect of this. I'm sure that the DA,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: the prosecutor, the police, and the m are all going
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: to meet before this information is released. And my fear
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: is is that if it doesn't say what either side
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: wants to hear, it's going to create a problem. But
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: we have to be patiently at this point trusting what
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: anybody says. I'm glad we're bringing in an independent, independent pathologist, Jason,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: So all the cops lawyered up and took the fifth.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Do you you have Jason Joss with me in the meantime
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: while we wait to rehook him up. Take a listen
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: to CBS WCCO for Minneapolis Jennifer Mayry Department of Public
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Safety Chief John Harrington that came back up to the
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: podium to let us know that Derek Chovin is in custody.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Derek Chovin is a former Minneapolis police officer seemed prominently
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: on the video that has been seen around the world
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: who is on the ground with his knee on George
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Floyd's neck. People have been calling for his arrest since
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: seeing that video. They have been calling for his arrest,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: protesting riding in the streets of Minneapoli US. Derek Chauvin
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: is now in custody. We are being told that he
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: was taken into custody by the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Let's listen to Chief Harrington delivering that news. I've just
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: received information from Andrew Evans, the superintendent of the Bureau
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: of Criminal Apprehension, that the officer who has been identified
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: as Derek Chauvin in the death of mister Lloyd has
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: been taken into custody by the BCA. We will be
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: giving out further information when we have it. At this point,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: we do not have any further information on charging decisions
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: that will be coming from the county Attorney. Learned a
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: lot about the BCA there. They call it Bureau of
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Criminal Apprehension, not fugitive Squad BCA. Derek Chauvin, forty four
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: year old, under arrest in the death of George Floyd.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Do I have Jason Ash's back? Jason are you there? Yes? Now, Okay,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: I don't hear him, so I'm gonna go to James
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: shell Nut on that. James shell Nut sounds like the
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: cops are all taking the fifth hold on shell Not
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: to you, Karen, start your psychologists explain to me, when
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: you see a cop, you see Chauvin with his knee
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: on the net a Floyd. Why do the other cops
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: just stand there and don't do anything because they don't care, Nancy,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: I mean deper than that grandfant. I don't know that
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: they don't care. But it's a fellow officer, so they're
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: supporting what he's doing. They they are. They even went
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: one of them went and chucked and checked the pulse
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: and knew there was no pulse. But it's a situation
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: where I believe they're paralyzed, not saying that it's right,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: wore a pressure exactly. It's their fellow officer, and so
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: they are in a position where did they go against
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: him or did they seem like they're supporting him? And
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: they're frozen? Time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: about the death of George Floyd. Unarmed, mister Floyd dying
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: his face down on the pavement after telling cops repeatedly,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: reportedly fourteen times, I can't breathe and calling out for
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: his mother as bystanders stood by begged the cops to stop.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: They didn't stop. Now he's dead. What about the other
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: cops involved? What's happening with them? Take a listen now
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: to our friends at k STP. ABC. Maya son to
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Maria says the two men worked for her as recently
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: as last year. She says she does not know if
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Derek Chauvin and George Lloyd Ever actually spoke to each other.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: The first time she saw this video, Maya Santa Maria
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: says it took her a moment to make the connection
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: because my friends said said, this is your guy, the
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: guy who used to work for you, and I can
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: since it's not him, and then they did it close up,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: and that's when I said, oh my god, that's him,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: she says. Now, former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin worked
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: security for her at El Nuevo Rodeo for seventeen years
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: before she sold the club just months ago. He sometimes
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: he sometimes had a real short fuse and he seems afraid.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: When there was an altercation, he always resorted to pulling
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: out his mace and ever sprang everybody right away. Then
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: when I felt it was unwarranted. Even more surreal, Santa
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Maria says, is that George Floyd, the man pinned under
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Chauvin's knee on Monday night, worked for her too. So
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: what does this mean to Sierra Gillespie. They knew each other.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know that we can say definitively that they
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: knew each other, Nancy, but they were in the same community.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: They probably may have even run into each other at
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: some point ahead of this. But I think it's important
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: to know what we just heard in that news package
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: that Chauvin may have had a history with violence. She
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: said that he always ran for his mace instead of
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: kind of just talking things out. What we do know
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: he had been involved in several other officer involved shootings
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: over his time with the Minneapolis Police Departments, and nearly
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: twenty complaints were filed against him. Now I looked into this,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: we weren't sure exactly what the complaints are, but I mean,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: eighteen complaints over his nineteen years with the department. That
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: sounds like a lot to me. James Shelnutt, is that
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: a lot? It sounds like a lot to me too. Yeah,
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: I think that's a lot. You know, the reality of it, Nancy,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: is that if you're doing your child as a police officer,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: you are going to get complainants. They're unaboridable. Is going
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: to happen if you do it long enough and you
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: do the right thing. And you step up and you
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: enforce the law. People don't like getting arrested, and people
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: don't want the police. They are going to complaint. That
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: number of complaints is the number of complaints that as
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: a police administrator, you start looking a little bit deeper
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: into these complaints, the more cumulative they become, and you
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: start one or into yourself and start asking questions, do
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: we have a problem with this officer? This is a
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: lot of complainants. So now we know there are charges,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: but listen to the charges. WCCO four Minneapolis asked me, Murphy, listen.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Former minniaps police officer Derek Chauvin has been charged by
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: the hand of a county attorney's office with murder and
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: with manslide. County Attorney Mike Freeman left open the possibility
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: of more charges against Derek Chauvin, as well as charges
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: against the other three officers. Investigations ongoing. We felt it
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: appropriate to focus on the most dangerous perpetrator, but we
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: are leading the investigation. The announcement of a possible charge
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: had been widely anticipated at a news conference yesterday. The
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: fact that it didn't happen has been criticized for fueling
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: the frustration blind last night's protests. We have now been
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: able to put together the evidence that we need. Even
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: as late as yesterday afternoon we didn't have all that
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: we needed, we have now found it. To you. Sierra Gillespie,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. What are the charges?
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: So right now, the only officer that is facing charges
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: is Derek Officer Schaubin, and he's facing third degree murder
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: and second degree manslaughter. And these are kind of interesting
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: charges here. Third degree murder, I don't think you hear
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: that that often. And basically what that just means is
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: he didn't intend to kill. Like he didn't wake up
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: this morning with a premeditated I'm going to kill George Floyd.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: It wasn't a situation like that. But when he was
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: put in the situation, he didn't have any regard for
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: human life. He knew that there was a risk and
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: he just acted carelessly. To Jason Eshen's New York defense attorney,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: what does third degree murder Maine? Exactly? Well, it was
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: described pretty well. I mean it's it's that that act
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: that causes it. It's like a criminally negligent thomicide, I mean,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: a reckless act without regard knowing that something. It pulls
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: away the intention. Uh, it's watered down murder charge in
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Leyman's terms. What was the sentence on a third degree?
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: I haven't looked into Minnesota statute, but I got murder
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Minnesota penalty. Jackie and Mancy, I will tell you this.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Many states don't have a third degree. Yeah, that's my point.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: A lot of people don't even have it because it's
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: so watered down and it's so weak. And you know
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: the reality is, Jason, you could say that about a
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: lot of murders, the majority of murders. I didn't wake
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: up that morning and main to shoot my wife. It
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: just happened, doesn't matter. The law, as I remember, presumes
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: you intend the natural consequence of your act, Jason. As
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: I would tell jurors, it's like taking a piece of
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: fine china and then throwing it down onto a cement
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: floor and then say, oops, I didn't mean to break it. No,
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: you point a gun and pull the trigger. The law
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: presumes you mean to kill. You hold your knee on
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: a man's neck for this long, the law presumes you
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: mean to suffocate him. A bit more nuanced right there,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: that's a good summation for the jury. Um, but are
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: you telling me I'm a more nuanced No, I would
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: never do that. I'm just saying it's a bit more nuanced.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: But you are right in that time, I can't believe
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: a third degree murder. Jackie says, it's twenty five years
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: according to our legal expert, Google, Google, Google and Google.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: So tell me about that. The maximum? Is that the maximum?
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: The max? Right? What's the minimum? What's the men? Okay,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: there's who is James. There's a recommended twelve and a
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: half and guidelines no prior confections, no prior history. And
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: jack also, while you're there, um, look up in Minnesota
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: put Minnesota second degree manslaughter penalty. So we're looking at
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: twelve and a half to twenty five on that. Why,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: I mean shall Nut you're not just major case or swat.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: You're also a lawyer at shall Nut Law Firm dot com.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: That's your website. I think you're a lawyer. So how
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: is my argument just nuanced? Nuanced? As Jason Oceans just said,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: it's dead on that's the law. What does it say
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: up to ten years in prison? However, most likely will
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: serve five five to ten on second degree manslaughter. So
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: tell me what was wrong with that argument? Why is
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: this not murder? One shall not? I think that it
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: could be. You know, you and I both know that
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: that intent to commit a murder can be formed in
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: the blink of an eye. Malice of four thought can
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: just be an instant, just a moment before this occurs.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: This went on for eight minute maybe minute number one.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: It wasn't intentional. Maybe minute number two, maybe minute number five,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: maybe minute number seven. But I think that by the
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: time you get to minute number eight and this man
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: goes from talkative to agitate, it to unconscious, telling you
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: that he can't breathe, and you continue to put your
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: knee on the back of his neck, that's a problem,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: and you start to really get close to being able
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: to meet that birth Take a listen to Minneapolis news
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: reporter Asney Murphy WCCO four. This new charging document does
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: contain a revelation. It says Floyd did not die of
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: strangulation or asphyxiation. The document says Floyd had heart disease
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: and that the combined effects of mister Floyd being restrained
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: by the police, he's underlying health condition and any potential
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: intoxicans in his system likely contributed to his death. I speaking,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: the third degree murder charge is the same charge Freeman
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: used to successfully prosecute Minneapolis police officer Mohammed Nor in
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: the twenty seventeen death of Justine Rustchuk. Damon Nor is
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: now serving twelve and a half years in prison. I
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: don't believe it, J Scott, tell me if I'm wrong.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: I do not believe this guy died from heart disease, restraint,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: underlying health conditions and other intoxicas in a system which
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: they don't even know what those intoxicas may be. Right now,
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: I don't believe that the man's saying, I can't breathe,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: I can't breathe, I can't breathe. He dies. I mean, well,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: that's that's the cool thing about having Michael Boden come
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: in behind them, because right now, you know they're saying
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: that that there's no evidence of strangulation, asshixiation. And we know,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: just from years of talking about this Nancy to some
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: things we look for, hemergon strap, muscles of the neck,
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: does he have the TIQII in the eye, all those
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: things that go along with an asphyxial death. What Boden
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: is going to do. Now, my understanding at least is
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: that he is going to perform or has performed, a
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: second autopsy. So what that means is that everything that
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: was taken in hit up Ac County at the Medical
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Examiner's office, he will be able to review. There's even
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: an all tense that he will take a look at
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: mister Floyd's body again in another location and he's going
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: to be looking for trauma of the neck. He's gonna
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: look at this very carefully. You know, Boden was neck
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: deep and no pun intended in the Epstein case. He
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: was present for Epstein's so he has a plethora, as
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: you know, of experience in these types of death. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: I'm not even concerned about Boden's experience. I know Boden.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: He's a great Emmy. I just I want answers. Like
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: everybody else, we wait as God willing justice foles, no
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: matter what it takes, no matter what it causes, the
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: truth is what we're looking for. Nancy Grace Crime Story
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: signing off, Goodbye friend,