Latest / Kids Ministry Calling with Jana Magruder / 76. The State of Biblical Literacy: How Churches Can Strengthen Discipleship in the Next Generation with Scott McConnell

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76. The State of Biblical Literacy: How Churches Can Strengthen Discipleship in the Next Generation with Scott McConnell · Kids Ministry Calling with Jana Magruder

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Are you dedicated to working with kids and families in the local church?
0:03
SPEAKER_01: Well, clearly that's more than a career, that's a calling.
0:06
SPEAKER_01: I'm Dana Magruder, and this is Kids Ministry Calling.
0:10
SPEAKER_01: Let's be honest.
0:11
SPEAKER_01: If your child came home with a D on their rapport card, you would probably have a few questions.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: What happened?
0:19
SPEAKER_01: Did you study?
0:20
SPEAKER_01: How can we help you improve?
0:23
SPEAKER_01: Nobody celebrates a D.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: But what if I told you the church is getting a disappointing grade when it comes to discipleship and biblical literacy?
0:34
SPEAKER_01: Recent research actually reveals that many Christians struggle to understand the core truths of their faith.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: And the younger generations are being shaped by countless voices competing for their attention every day.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: The good news is this isn't a report card to make us feel defeated.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: It's a wake-up call that reminds us where we have the greatest opportunity.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: And that opportunity starts with kids.
1:02
SPEAKER_01: As kids' ministry leaders, we have the incredible privilege of helping lay a foundation that can shape someone's relationship with Jesus for the rest of their life.
1:12
SPEAKER_01: Every Bible story, every gospel conversation, every memory verse, and every caring volunteer matters.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: In our very first episode of this season of Kids Ministry Cumbling, I'm joined by LifeWays Executive Director of Research, Scott McConnell.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: We're going to unpack what recent research reveals about the current state of discipleship and biblical literacy in the church.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: We'll discuss what the data tells us and why it matters for children's ministry and how churches can intentionally build disciples from a young age by anchoring kids in the truth of God's word.
1:47
SPEAKER_01: Now, here's my timely and important conversation with Scott McConnell.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: Scott, thank you so much for being here.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: I have been so excited about this episode, but also just this whole season of the podcast because we are going to be unpacking the value and the urgency of discipleship in kids ministry specifically.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: And so for our audience, I really want to with you uh unpack two key studies that you and your team have been working on and that we um have been um a little disappointed with.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: So I want to start with the state of discipleship uh research.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: And I just want to show, even for people who are watching, I printed out a report card, state of discipleship report card, which is evaluating just the church.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: And guess what this letter says we have in red circled a D.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: We have a D.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: And it goes line by line.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: I know that y'all identified eight signposts that you're evaluating people on.
2:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's nothing but C's.
2:57
SPEAKER_01: So we're passing on a few things, but just by a C.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: And then down to D's and even an F.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: So um we can just walk through those very quickly.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: There's one that I really want to highlight before we get to state of theology.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, let's just look at line by line what we let's start with what we passed on.
3:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we we have passing grades on seeking God.
3:22
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think that reflects the fact that if you are a Christian, you're you're wanting to follow Christ.
3:27
SPEAKER_02: Um we ask for each of these, there's a handful of questions behind them.
3:31
SPEAKER_02: Uh that try to capture someone's beliefs, what they're what they're desiring to be doing in their walk with Christ, and then what are they actually doing?
3:40
SPEAKER_02: Um so seeking God does the best.
3:42
SPEAKER_02: Obeying God comes comes right behind it, which captures both obeying God and denying yourself in that process.
3:49
SPEAKER_02: Uh serving God and others and exercising faith are the others that get a a a C grade.
3:54
SPEAKER_02: Um we we drop a bit when we get to Bible engagement, building relationships, and then and then kind of the lowest ones are are living unashamed of of Jesus Christ and and and our relationship with him and sharing Christ with others.
4:09
SPEAKER_01: Right.
4:09
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I I don't think that last one will surprise a lot of pastors, even when we ask them.
4:14
SPEAKER_02: That's the one they kind of say, hey, we're sh we're not doing great on.
4:17
SPEAKER_02: Right.
4:18
SPEAKER_02: Um, but at the same time, these are always a challenge because these reflect things that we don't just check the box, hey, I've done that and I'm done with it forever.
4:28
SPEAKER_02: Right.
4:28
SPEAKER_02: It's no, today or in this season, have I shared Christ with somebody?
4:33
SPEAKER_02: Am I seeking God today?
4:35
SPEAKER_02: Am I am I investing in the relationships that God's brought into my life?
4:38
SPEAKER_02: You know, those are all today.
4:40
SPEAKER_02: How am I doing?
4:41
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: And so that F grade specifically is our evangelism efforts.
4:47
SPEAKER_01: And I know you've done work around that too.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: The last statistic I read about that was I mean, most people in the church share their faith maybe zero to one times.
4:57
SPEAKER_02: Actually, the numbers aren't too bad when we ask in here.
5:00
SPEAKER_02: So people in the church, there's a quarter who have not shared in the last six months.
5:04
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
5:04
SPEAKER_02: There's about a quarter who've shared roughly once a month or more.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: That's good.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: Half are in the middle.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
5:10
SPEAKER_02: The reason why it feels so bad is so many of those people don't respond.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
5:14
SPEAKER_02: So you share your faith story and well, it didn't go anywhere.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:19
SPEAKER_02: And that could mean we need to do some training to make those conversations more effective, but but more so, uh, I I think we need to be on our knees and and really asking God for those opportunities as well as asking God that He He He would change lives when they hear the gospel.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, let's go back to Bible engagement where we got a D.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: And that's where I really want to circle uh and highlight that for us as kids ministry leaders about how can we make sure that our kids understand biblical truth from a very young age to by the time we send them to student ministry, they have a deep biblical literacy that they're walking away with.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: And so these are adults that have been surveyed, I realize, but at one point they were perhaps a child even in the church and even in student ministry.
6:13
SPEAKER_01: And something's missing, you know, something is there's a gap.
6:18
SPEAKER_01: And um, I wanna I wanna be able to highlight that as well.
6:22
SPEAKER_01: So um very quickly, that's a a view of the state of discipleship study.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: Keep that Bible engagement in mind, and let's talk about how we did on the state of theology report.
6:36
SPEAKER_01: Because to me, if we're not in our Bibles, that's gonna show up when we start answering questions about what we truly believe.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, and in the in the doctrines of our faith.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: And so let's talk about that study next.
6:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:51
SPEAKER_02: As you mentioned, all the questions on that survey are are focused on on what do you believe uh about God.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: And uh it's fun to look at that data both to understand what Americans believe in total, but then specifically zoom in on those who are in the church.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: Right.
7:09
SPEAKER_02: And uh there's uh it's some encouraging findings that eve in an America that we feel is very secular today, there's still a lot of knowledge about God.
7:18
SPEAKER_02: There's still a lot of belief about God that that's actually accurate.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so that can be encouraging.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: We have a place to start conversations in those gospel conversations.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: Hey, there's some shared knowledge, there is a God.
7:29
SPEAKER_02: I can jump to that step of sharing our faith.
7:33
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, a few of the surprises that came out, I I'd like to share four things that that really jumped out in the state of theology uh that I think are helpful in understanding some of the shifts that are happening.
7:44
SPEAKER_02: But the shifts are happening very slowly because a lot of it's generational.
7:48
SPEAKER_02: And so that you know, that that happens very slowly over time.
7:51
SPEAKER_02: But if we look at the young adults and how they differ from just the total responses, uh the biggest difference is a 17% difference in uh believing that modern science disproves the Bible.
8:04
SPEAKER_02: So just that reliability of the Bible and feeling like there's another source of truth, science, the cis, you know, having a process for uh, you know, the scientific method of you know that really leaning on that more than there's a someone um who's who's created and who who uh has shared truth with us.
8:26
SPEAKER_02: Um and so that that's a challenging thing as we think of the next generation.
8:30
SPEAKER_02: Uh two other things where where young adults are less likely to believe.
8:35
SPEAKER_02: There's a 13% difference in believing God created marriage.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
8:39
SPEAKER_02: Uh and there's a 13% lower uh belief that that Jesus Christ rose from the dead.
8:45
SPEAKER_02: Uh and that was an actual fact.
8:47
SPEAKER_02: He actually did that uh bodily.
8:49
SPEAKER_02: Um they're 16% more likely to believe uh that we should be able to choose our own gender.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: And so the younger, so the younger people surveyed are 16% more likely to believe that.
9:03
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
9:04
SPEAKER_02: And so again, several of these things we I just you know, two of these things I just mentioned are are right there in Genesis.
9:10
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's like you know, just those first couple stories in our Bible, um, male and female are created and and and then um and then marriage itself, uh, you know, are are right there up front in the Bible.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: And so uh you know, these are core truths that that young adults either have not been taught or they've chosen not to believe.
9:32
SPEAKER_02: And that can be a mixture of those.
9:34
SPEAKER_02: And um and sometimes that they obviously soak in uh what they perceive adults are really buying into or not.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: So I know biblical authority showed up.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was a whole category that we dove into with this study.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: And there are it's kind of half and half, if I remember correctly, of people who do believe the Bible is true and and uh the authority, but then the whole other half kind of fall apart on that.
10:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it it's a very you know, the authority of the Bible, the the accuracy of the Bible is uh is a very polar issue.
10:13
SPEAKER_02: Um so as you mentioned, right around half say the Bible's 100% accurate.
10:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:18
SPEAKER_02: Right around half think the Bible is full of myths and not literally true.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we we we put it in there twice just to make sure they they caught that this is this is not the truth answer.
10:29
SPEAKER_02: Um but half of Americans are are saying it it could it could still be considered a good book because it has some morals in there and some good teaching, but it's myth mythological.
10:40
SPEAKER_02: It's it's made up.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:41
SPEAKER_02: And and it's like, no, it it was revealed.
10:44
SPEAKER_02: And so how do we tell that revelation story um that this is God's story?
10:49
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: And those same group of people would say that other b religious books are the same.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: So they put the Bible in that category.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: So that that's a little bit of a fire alarm, I think.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: Um that's why it's so important, even just from a very young age in preschool.
11:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we love to hold up the Bible and say, this is God's word, and everything that it says is true.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: We emphasize that every week, every every time that we have kids gathered.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: Uh whether that's a little preschool cardboard Bible, storybook Bible is your reading with kids, but we always talk about the Bible is God's word, and it is true.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: Those are core foundational beliefs that we have to agree to first before we even start talking about these other things.
11:40
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
11:41
SPEAKER_02: And and making sure they understand that the truths that are in there came from someone.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
11:46
SPEAKER_02: You know, I I think that's that's a key thing.
11:48
SPEAKER_02: That you know, I uh our goal is to to help them fall in love with God.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: And and they need to see that in us.
11:54
SPEAKER_02: Have we fallen in love with God?
11:56
SPEAKER_02: And the and the more they see that in us, I I think the more that that that those truths we're sharing will will be believable.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: So true.
12:04
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: Another surprising thing for me uh was the confusion around the Trinity.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about that because I feel like one statistic kind of said a lot of us under or agree that the the Trinity is God in three persons.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: But then when you unpack that about Jesus and about the Holy Spirit, there's confusion.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: Right.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: Tell us about that one.
12:27
SPEAKER_02: So we we don't use the word Trinity in in the question since the word's not in the Bible, but uh, but that concept uh of one God in three persons, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit is one of the most consistent answers we've gotten on the survey through the years.
12:41
SPEAKER_02: Uh, we've done the survey, I think, six times uh over the last 12, 13 years.
12:46
SPEAKER_02: And seven out of ten Americans believe in that statement about God.
12:53
SPEAKER_02: And and yet when we go to ask about Jesus Christ and we give two heretical statements, Jesus Christ was a good teacher, but he's not God, almost half agree with that with that heretical statement.
13:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:07
SPEAKER_02: And more than half agree with the heretical statement that the Holy Spirit is a force and not a personal being.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
13:13
SPEAKER_02: And so I I I think there's a mixture of things going on here.
13:18
SPEAKER_02: What one is the statement on the Trinity sounds really familiar.
13:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, if you've been around church at all, you've been around Christians at all, you've probably heard that phrase.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: And so it sounds familiar.
13:29
SPEAKER_02: And so I'm willing to agree with that.
13:31
SPEAKER_02: Um, but when they start to think about, well, who really is Jesus or who is this Holy Spirit?
13:38
SPEAKER_02: Well, maybe I haven't had a lot of teaching on him.
13:40
SPEAKER_02: Who is he?
13:41
SPEAKER_02: He was a good teacher.
13:43
SPEAKER_02: But God?
13:44
SPEAKER_02: No.
13:45
SPEAKER_02: God's God.
13:46
SPEAKER_02: And so it just tells you that they've not been around a lot of teaching.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: Right.
13:51
SPEAKER_02: Um, or or again, may not accept the teaching they've heard.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: And that's again a urgent call for us as children's ministry leaders to make sure that we are helping kids understand that from a very young age.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, I love referring to the levels of biblical learning.
14:11
SPEAKER_01: We talk about that a lot on this podcast, um, also known as ages and stages.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: We'll link those in the show notes.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: But um, for if you're worried about maybe even your volunteers, your teachers, maybe having some theological confusion, that is entirely possible.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, this document would help guide them to make sure that they are teaching truth at uh at the right level, the right age group, and how kids learn and grow in that age group to unpack those 10 biblical concepts that we've identified in those levels.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: So that includes God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, church, Bible, all of these things that that show up in the report to make sure that kids have a true understanding of those things.
14:57
SPEAKER_02: So and even as we look at those levels of biblical learning across ages, those 10 persist.
15:03
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, you know, at at the very youngest age, you can begin to understand core truths that yes, we're gonna add some details as as you become an adult, but the core truth hasn't changed.
15:15
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
15:15
SPEAKER_02: And and it's those core truths.
15:18
SPEAKER_02: Most of these questions on our survey are core things.
15:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:20
SPEAKER_02: You know, we're not getting into tiny little nitpicking kinds of things.
15:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:26
SPEAKER_02: And and there are a lot of adults that have missed those core truths or or have walked away from them.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: So big surprises for me was the one on biblical authority, the one on um uh the Trinity.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: I know we don't use the that word, but uh the I read your article where it said Trinity Troubles is what I think it was called.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: Um and then um the third one I want to call out is the one about um church gathering.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: Um so the statistic I I or the what they the statement they were reacting to was um it's okay for me to, it's perfectly fine for me to um gather my family uh as our own little church and not go to church, basically.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: And we had over 50 percent, I'm gonna say 60 percent of even churchgoers at one point said, Yeah, that's totally fine.
16:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: During COVID, it was even worse.
16:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: So it did improve slightly in this last survey, but it it it is still far from uh an understanding of how we're supposed to be following Christ.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:32
SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, Jesus was very clear, choosing to follow Christ is an individual choice.
16:37
SPEAKER_02: Are are you going to follow or not?
16:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:39
SPEAKER_02: But once you do, we're following together.
16:42
SPEAKER_02: And and there are so many Americans and as well as those within the church who don't understand that.
16:49
SPEAKER_02: And why does it matter that Americans would understand that?
16:52
SPEAKER_02: They need to understand that they're joining a community.
16:55
SPEAKER_01: Right.
16:56
SPEAKER_02: And so when they make that individual choice to follow Christ, there's a community here to join who's going to love you and help you on this journey.
17:03
SPEAKER_02: You're not just doing, you know, this is not a solo effort.
17:06
SPEAKER_02: And uh uh young adults are are trailing on this one as well.
17:10
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
17:10
SPEAKER_02: Um and so the you know, that understanding of the body of Christ, I think is an essential thing to be just underlining.
17:18
SPEAKER_02: And uh it it shows up so subtly in scripture, but throughout that so many of the pronouns are plural.
17:27
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's we, it's us.
17:29
SPEAKER_02: And and you know, our prayers need to be we and us, and our our lives need to be lived that I'm not alone.
17:36
SPEAKER_02: I I need you, you need me, let's let's do this together.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: Do you think that this kind of slide is um indicative of just where we are in terms of being more isolated and uh self-sufficient and uh even pandemic stuff is is is that a reflection in where we are with that belief?
18:00
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, sociologists would say it's it's part of a journey towards secularization that that that typically uh you you uh you know you you stop attending and and you stop identifying with with with Christ.
18:15
SPEAKER_02: Um and uh and then finally all of you know the rest of your beliefs drop as well.
18:21
SPEAKER_02: And but I mean they're describing a society, they're not describing an individual.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: Right.
18:25
SPEAKER_02: Um and so with individuals it it it's it's it's it's messy, you know, because some people stop attending, but they still call themselves a Christian, they still have a lot of beliefs.
18:34
SPEAKER_02: Other people um are uh you know have dropped the Christian name and yet they still have some beliefs.
18:41
SPEAKER_02: You know, it it's just kind of kind of a messy uh uh trying to describe uh everybody in our culture today.
18:49
SPEAKER_02: But uh, you know, I I think as as leaders uh uh you know who are trying to teach the word, we have to understand that that everybody needs to understand the truths from God's word better.
19:04
SPEAKER_02: Whether they're seeking to be a disciple of Christ and trying to grow closer to him, or whether they're far from him.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: They need to understand better who he is and and what he's revealed to us.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: And for me, the takeaway on the church statistic is um we talk a lot about building that belonging.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: And we want kids to feel that in um in our environments as they're coming maybe for the first time, uh, maybe they don't have a church background.
19:35
SPEAKER_01: How can we immediately create that sense of belonging, not only for kids, but for families, so that they do see the body of Christ being their church family and and want to be part of that.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: And um, and you know, at some point as they grow in their faith, realize that they can't do it without the body of Christ.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: So that to me is a takeaway for children's ministries as well as how can we make sure that um our families feel that and um and create that space for them.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: Well, I have I sent you some questions because I I really want to know your thoughts on this.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: First of all, I'm so grateful for just the the research science and and how we can really um understand people around us and where they are on these different things.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: But we've talked about two different reports state of theology, state of discipleship.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: How do those things go together?
20:35
SPEAKER_01: Do they go together?
20:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:37
SPEAKER_02: Uh I mean, being a dis a disciple is is somebody who's following Jesus Christ.
20:43
SPEAKER_02: And theology is is our knowledge of God or our studying God.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: Um I believe everybody's a theologian.
20:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:50
SPEAKER_02: Because everybody has has thoughts about who God is, even if your thoughts are he doesn't exist.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:55
SPEAKER_02: And that's a good point.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: And people have different levels of how much they're studying him, not at all, or or they're really engaging, trying to understand who he is.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: Um you can't follow Christ without knowing him.
21:07
SPEAKER_02: And so they work very closely together to be knowing God as well as desiring to follow him and living that out.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: I feel like discipleship is why LifeWay exists.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: You know, we're not the church, but we create resources that help equip churches to do discipleship.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: And even though this season we're dedicating to the theme of discipleship, really everything that we do in certainly at LifeWay is in that category of discipleship.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: And so you have done a lot of work on creating disciples' path.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: And that's something new that we're offering churches in light of this state of discipleship to help them.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit about what that is.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: So disciples' path uh is is really a challenge.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: For a whole church to say how are we going to build a path of building disciples in our church?
22:06
SPEAKER_02: And w honestly, our research has found that churches are doing a lot of activity that that is discipleship directed.
22:15
SPEAKER_02: It's heading that direction.
22:17
SPEAKER_02: But only half of churches have a plan.
22:19
SPEAKER_02: Right.
22:20
SPEAKER_02: And and more than nine out of ten pastors are not satisfied with where they're at.
22:26
SPEAKER_02: They're not thinking discipleship's effective.
22:28
SPEAKER_02: So Disciples Path says, let's get gather the leaders of your church.
22:33
SPEAKER_02: Whether you're if you're in a big church, that could be the staff.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: If it's a smaller church, the volunteer leaders of your key ministries, let's get together and let's go to the first of all, let's go discover in the word of God what it is, what what is a disciple?
22:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:47
SPEAKER_02: And and what could this path look like?
22:50
SPEAKER_02: And uh we're not gonna prescribe that for you as LifeWay, we're gonna take you to the Word.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: And so that's the process that's there.
22:56
SPEAKER_02: And I should I should point out all of Disciples Path is free.
22:59
SPEAKER_02: So LifeWay is not trying to make money off this.
23:02
SPEAKER_02: We want to encourage this conversation.
23:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so as uh as those leaders spend several sessions going into God's Word, landing on here's how we're gonna talk about discipleship uh in our church, uh the the second step is to discern um and understand where your people are at.
23:21
SPEAKER_02: And so there are a couple of assessments that are there, including questions that we've asked have been put in there as well.
23:26
SPEAKER_02: And another is just for the leaders to answer some questions to spur their conversation about where are we at as a church, as a congregation.
23:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, when we look at Jesus' ministry, he knew what people needed.
23:38
SPEAKER_02: And so whether he was teaching a group or talking to somebody individually, he went straight to that need.
23:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:43
SPEAKER_02: Challenging people or teaching the truth, you know, for what they needed.
23:47
SPEAKER_02: We get we need to be doing the same thing.
23:49
SPEAKER_02: We need to understand what people need and be teaching uh and challenging people and encouraging people on the very things that that they need.
23:56
SPEAKER_02: Um and so that discerning step is an important one.
24:00
SPEAKER_02: Um then as as the church begins to to uh those leaders begin to craft, well, what do we do about this?
24:07
SPEAKER_02: And and so they they look at the current ministries, you know, do we need to make any changes to our current ministries?
24:13
SPEAKER_02: How do they fit?
24:13
SPEAKER_02: How can they help?
24:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, do we need to add anything to this?
24:17
SPEAKER_02: And and then finally beginning to prepare for the last step of deploying where we're gonna communicate this to our church and and sh tell them how they can be involved and and and really challenging people to take their next step in discipleship.
24:31
SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, it's hopefully this brings a whole lot of clarity to a church.
24:37
SPEAKER_02: Because it this is a longing for all of us to follow Christ.
24:40
SPEAKER_02: And yet we if we were to ask what is a disciple of 10, if we ask 10 people that, we get 10 different answers.
24:46
SPEAKER_02: That's true.
24:47
SPEAKER_02: That wouldn't be all wrong, you know, it but we don't have a shared language.
24:50
SPEAKER_02: We don't so within your church, let let let's land on this so that uh when we do training and we say, hey, what we're doing right now is connecting to this.
24:59
SPEAKER_02: Oh, we understand.
25:00
SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's that's why we're doing this.
25:01
SPEAKER_02: Let's go for it.
25:02
SPEAKER_02: And um and I think that clarity you know will motivate leaders.
25:07
SPEAKER_02: I and I think it will let us know what you know the activities we're doing are worth it.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: So that's a free tool that churches can use.
25:17
SPEAKER_01: And that would mean children's ministry is a part of that.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: Right.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: A huge part of that.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: And so if if you're hearing about this for the first time and maybe your leaders don't know about it, uh, we'll definitely link all this in the show notes.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: And maybe that could spur on or start a conversation about intentional discipleship planning.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: Because more than anything, that's what the survey really shined a light on was just churches a lot of times don't have a plan.
25:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:45
SPEAKER_02: Let's be intentional about that.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: Be intentional.
25:47
SPEAKER_02: And you know, the fact that it's a group of leaders, not just your pastor doing this.
25:51
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
25:51
SPEAKER_02: Just reflects the fact that the Great Commission wasn't pastors, go make disciples.
25:56
SPEAKER_02: It was disciples, make disciples.
25:58
SPEAKER_02: That's all of us in the church.
26:00
SPEAKER_02: And so we share this responsibility, we share this need.
26:04
SPEAKER_02: Let's go do it together.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: Well, as we're talking, um, we keep coming back to what God's Word says, biblical truth.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it reminds me of a study that you and I did together years ago that I still reference all the time.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: So the nothing less study where we um surveyed uh parents to look back and see what did you do as you were raising your children?
26:30
SPEAKER_01: And then um, how are they doing today spiritually?
26:34
SPEAKER_01: And we put all that in the statistical mix master.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: And that gave us 10 indicators of spiritual growth in in kids.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: And so um there's, you know, I'll just go ahead and give a spoiler alert if you're not familiar with the research.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: But the number one thing by far, I remember you coming to us and saying, Jana, the number one thing is so far and beyond all the other nine that it needs to be in its own category because it's very clear that the number one thing that we can do as parents, as ministry leaders, is Bible reading.
27:11
SPEAKER_02: Sounds simple.
27:12
SPEAKER_01: Sounds so simple.
27:12
SPEAKER_01: And I gotta tell you, I was a little um, I kind of felt a little taken off guard, like, oh, shouldn't we have known that?
27:20
SPEAKER_01: You know?
27:21
SPEAKER_01: But sometimes we chase all these other things.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: And it all comes back to God's word is what truly transforms hearts.
27:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: And so we keep going back to that.
27:33
SPEAKER_02: And and it's a because it's a practice though, it it also reflects the fact that that that child, that student, that adult is saying, Yes, I'm willing to engage in this.
27:44
SPEAKER_02: Because we can't read it, you know, we can't do it for them.
27:47
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the way we word the question is them reading on their own.
27:49
SPEAKER_02: Right.
27:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, and and so, you know, we we can't make them believe, we can't make them know, we can't make them want to, but we can do everything we can to set it up.
28:02
SPEAKER_02: To set the table.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: Here's how to do it.
28:04
SPEAKER_02: Here's a Bible, so you can do it.
28:06
SPEAKER_02: Uh let's talk about it.
28:08
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
28:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, you can do this.
28:09
SPEAKER_02: What did you discover today?
28:11
SPEAKER_02: What did I discover today?
28:12
SPEAKER_02: Let me show you what was in my Bible reading today.
28:14
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
28:15
SPEAKER_02: And and those conversations that that make them understand why we're reading, we're wanting to get to know God, the person behind this Bible, uh, the the God behind this Bible.
28:24
SPEAKER_02: You know, the you know, all those things point to the fact that that Bible reading is a bunch of truth, yes, but it's engaging with that truth and engaging the the God of that truth.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
28:37
SPEAKER_01: And that's how God speaks to us.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: And so if we want our kids to have that relationship, that's God's word is living and active.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: So, well, that's a good place for us to close.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: And uh, for everybody out there, I just want you to, your big takeaway to be that this urgent work matters so much and it starts so young.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: And I hope that that this doesn't discourage you, but excites you and motivates you and affirms you in your calling to this important work of children's ministry.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna close it out here.
29:11
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Scott, so much for joining us.
29:14
SPEAKER_01: Always so fun and interesting to hear uh the the important, valuable research that you and your team do.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: And listeners and watchers, thank you for joining us on this episode.
29:26
SPEAKER_01: And remember to have joy in your calling.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: See you on the next one.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: This episode of Kids Ministry Cumbling Podcast was brought to you by our amazing team, including executive producer Angie Elkin, producer Nikki Officer, edited by Trey Garza, and recorded in the Lifeweight Podcast Studio in Brentwood, Tennessee, with Sound Engineer Donnie Gordon, and artwork by Cameron Wilson.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: And I'm your host, Janet McGruder.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening to Kids Ministry Calling.