Latest / The Partial Historians / A Dry Period
Transcript
- Dr Rad 0:17 Welcome to the Partial Historians, Dr G 0:20 we explore all the details of ancient Dr Rad 0:23 ruins. Everything from the political scandals, the love of ours, the battles waged, and when citizens turn against each other. I'm Dr. Rad. Dr G 0:35 And I'm Dr. G. We consider Rome as the Romans saw it by reading different authors from the ancient past and comparing their stories. Dr Rad 0:44 Join us as we trace the journey of Rome from the founding of the city. Welcome to a brand new episode of the Partial Historians. I am one of your hosts, Dr. Rad. Dr G 1:15 And I am one of your other hosts Dr. G. Welcome to the show. Dr Rad 1:21 That sounds like there are more to come. Dr G 1:23 And you imagine if we expanded our repertoire and brought other people in as hosts? I don't know if that the vibe would be the same. Dr Rad 1:31 No, I don't think each of us could handle that. We're already too talkative. To two fabulous. Exactly. Yes. So, Dr. G, I'm so glad to see you. Because it's been too long since we talked about the history over and from the founding of the city. Why it feels like more than 24 hours. Dr G 1:51 I can't get enough to be honest. And I'm excited to dive in because on the back of where we just wrapped up, which was 431 BCE, and I'm still getting over various mascius being such an incredible dude. Dr Rad 2:08 And then disappearing without a trace. Suspicious. I mean, I think we all know what happened to him, but still, Dr G 2:16 did it involve stepping maybe Dr Rad 2:19 you don't get to throw a name as fabulous as that out there. Maybe and then not tell me what happened to this man. Dr G 2:25 Look, Livy is letting you down right now. I'm sorry. Dr Rad 2:29 Well, I mean, Dionysius has disappeared. So you know, glass houses, stones? Dr G 2:35 I might not have any sources, but boy, do I have names? Dr Rad 2:39 That's right. Dr. G, let's do a quick recap. So we've given a bit of a hint there about what happened last episode. But where are we up to in the narrative of rooms history last time we spoke? Dr G 2:52 Look, as far as I can remember, it was a pretty exciting year full of ups and downs, military prowess by the Romans, everybody heading out down south for a bit of a battle at Mount Algidus and just mayhem generally speaking, I believe there was a dictator could be wrong about that. Dr Rad 3:13 There definitely was a dictator. Dr G 3:15 I had lots of like little supplementary sources hinting at various things that happened in this year because it was Tubertus as dictator and he was quite an incredible figure. And he's made it into the history books, partly on the back of a story that we're not sure can be fully ascribed to him. It might be apocryphal, that involves the killing of his own son for disobeying orders on the battlefield. Dr Rad 3:42 Yeah, Postumius Tubertus showed his stuff on the battlefield against the aqueous and the Volscians to great acclaim. And then bit sour for us. Not for the Romans killed his own son. Maybe, maybe not. Dr G 3:57 Yeah, yeah, if so: tragic, but also a huge demonstration of Roman virtus, placing the state before anything else. Dr Rad 4:05 Exactly. So basically, we left Rome on a bit of a military high, I suppose you could say last episode. Yeah. They're excited. Yeah, exactly. Which means it's a perfect time to transition into another year. So I think we're heading into 430 BC. All right, Dr. G, so it's 430 BCE. Tell me who's in charge. Dr G 4:53 So it's a good question. I literally have the names of the consoles and the names of the sensors. And that is almost all I have in terms of source material. Dr Rad 5:06 I kind of fake it. Yeah, I kind of fake it and that's why I thought I'd let you tell me who the magistrates were Dr G 5:11 That's very kind of you. So as you know, Dionysus of Halicarnassus is sadly missing in action is becoming more and more fragmentary, and will soon be completely gone. The Fasti Capitolini is also missing for these years. So we're relying on some fastI records that are kind of like a little bit of a backup system. This means I'm left with source material like Diodorus Siculus, a little reference from Cicero, and a bit of Festus, which has never really been translated into English, so I had to do a bit of a dodge on the Latin. So Dr Rad 5:48 Latin Oh, no. Dr G 5:50 I know I used to be alright at Latin. Now it's just a little bit tricky, but you know, I gave it a whirl. So our consuls for this year. Lucius, in brackets or Gaius Papirius, son of nobody grandson of nobody, Crassus, consul for the second time, apparently, also consul in 436 BCE. Dr Rad 6:15 Yeah, they're amazing. Papirius I remember that Dr G 6:18 Papirius Crassus and he's joined by Lucius. Or Gaius, Julius Vopiscus Iullus . Also a patrician, and was previously military tribune with consular power in 438 for people following the career, like a red hot razor, and was also most famously master of the horse in the previous year to Tubertus himself. So this guy has been elevated from being the master of the horse to the consulship. Fancy, Nancy. Dr Rad 6:55 Nice, nice. Now, I believe you mentioned we have some censors as well. Dr G 6:59 We do. And I mean, things are gonna get a bit weird with the sensors, I think, as I'm sure you're about to tell me, but we have Lucius Papirius who sounds like he must be related to Lucius Papirius, the consul. I was like, I don't think this is the same person. But I also can't be sure Rome... Dr Rad 7:20 I'm not gonna say anything yet. I'm not gonna say any Dr G 7:22 Rome and their names we've got two Lucius Papirii, what could be going on. And we also have Publius Pinarius as the co-censor. So the job of the censor is count everything up, basically, check how the population is going, look at the distribution of the wealth and so forth. So I guess we'll see what happens. Dr Rad 7:47 We will, we will, I mean, their censorship has been an interesting controversy in this past decade. So it's interesting that we have sensors named again. Now look, I'm not going to not gonna lie. Livy does not have a huge amount of detail for this year. If I'm not alone, I'm going to say yeah, I'm going to say I think this episode might be a low point for Livy as well, and you'll see why later on. Not as it is not interesting, but just as in in terms of the depth of the information provided, but well, we'll get to that. Of course, here we are in 430 BC, and what are the tribune of the plebs pushing for but military tributes with consular power? I think you can already know how that wound up given that you've given me the magistrates as consuls. Dr G 8:37 Yeah. So they wanted this year to be filled with military treatments with consular power. Is that the idea? Dr Rad 8:43 Yeah, they wanted military ship into the consular power but didn't get there. It seems to be the way to be honest. They seem to lose more often than they win in this battle. So the previous year, as we mentioned, we had some conflict with the Aequians and the Volscians mentioned and the Romans did pretty well in that scenario. In this year the aqueous erstwhile enemies of room sent envoys to the Romans Senate requesting a treaty the Senate come back yes the Senate come back to the aqueous and say, You know what, why don't you just flat out surrender and say that were awesome and where the man and nobody can be at room? Dr G 9:23 Fascinating. Okay, so that's, that's not really a treaty. That's just they're asking Romans like, rather than a treaty, how about you completely submit to us? Dr Rad 9:32 I think that the Romans are doing what I try and do, which is you ask for something that's more than you want. And then you work your way down. Dr G 9:41 I see. I see a great negotiating strategy from the victor of the battle. Dr Rad 9:46 Yes, exactly. Anyway, it ends up happening that the Aequians secure an eight year truce with Rome. Dr G 9:54 Okay, very specific. We'll see how that goes. I know Dr Rad 9:57 it is very specific, isn't it? Eight years like why not just and even 10. Guys, just an x. Dr G 10:03 I mean they use base 10. They, that's odd. Okay. Dr Rad 10:07 Yeah. Anyway, the Volscians of course, we're also defeated in this recent military combat that was going on. But internally, they're now facing division. And to be honest, this I love this because we often find that we end up talking about like, what's happening in Rome after something big has happened. So it's kind of nice to get a sneak peek into what apparently is happening for the Volscians. So there are those who want to secure peace with Rome, and those who want to, I think, pursue more war. So they're kind of arguing amongst themselves, which means Rome is in a very peaceful state, right? There's not a lot going on. Dr G 10:49 Oh, yeah. Well, if the Volscii Aren't organised, then they probably still mourning the loss of Messius. Well, I did say I kind of like if we can breed them like that maybe we can take the whole place and make it our own. Dr Rad 11:01 Who knows. So the Romans turned to what they normally do in peaceful times, which is needless bureaucracy. Dr G 11:09 I see the censorship I sense is coming. Dr Rad 11:12 Yes, this is where it is coming in. So Livy mentioned that there was a new law introduced regarding the valuation of fines, which was very popular with the people. Now when it actually happened was that the tribune of the plebs were actually putting this law together, and they knew it would go down well with the people. Unfortunately, one of them got a little bit too chatty, loose lips sink, ships strategy. And so the consuls ended up putting forth a law before the tribunes and they get the credit. Dr G 11:43 Oh, no. Okay, so distributors come up with a great law, only to have it stolen out from underneath them by the consuls. Fascinating. Dr Rad 11:53 Yeah. Now, of course, I had no idea what they were talking about in terms of what this actually involved. I've got a little bit of detail on this, I think, okay, I can I can I can say this is where I think Cicero comes in. Dr G 12:05 Yeah. Yeah. So Cicero's sort of jumps in to the to breach the gap, as it were, of all of our the source material. And, you know, he's spoiling on about a whole bunch of things like Cicero does. But he's honing in on this moment of the censorship. And he gets the names, right, generally speaking, and he talks about this transfer of the imposition of fines. So and it's something to do with lightening the final load for people and figuring out how to measure that so that they can distribute the fines appropriately, but also lower their sort of consequence. In effect, it seems like fines are getting out of control, and nobody's very happy about it. And their choice seems to be to shift a number of cattle out of private ownership and into public ownership. Now, these are two details. And I do not know how they're related. How does shifting some cows, from private to public ownership actually alleviate the situation with fines? And I think this is related to how they measure wealth. So how they count up somebody's assets for the censorship test. If the cows are owned by the people, 'the public' as it were, rather than by a certain person individually, then that capital doesn't count to your asset marker. So you're looking after some cows, but you don't technically own the cows. Dr Rad 13:42 Interesting. Yeah. Well, when I was sort of doing a bit of digging into this, the previous law that was replaced by this law was apparently a local the Lex Aternia Tarpeia, which was introduced in 454 BCE, so not that long ago. And it apparently had set up the conversion rate for fine. So one ox was the equivalent of 10 sheep was the equivalent of 100 pounds of bronze or 100 asses - aw yeah. Give me that booty. Apparently, see, we're not entirely sure what is happening with this new law. But we think that the conversion rate is what has been made more favourable. And probably because there might have been people who wish to pay in money, rather than in things like cattle, I guess. And so kind of might have ended the optional payment. This is just a theory. This is a set in stone. It might have ended the optional payment and it might mean that all fines had to be paid in money from this point onwards. Dr G 14:51 Ah, this might tie in I'm not sure necessarily how, but Festus does suggest In a passage 220, from the Lindsay addition, if anybody's keen for that, that it was about estimating cattle based on the hundreds within the herd for and then sheep were estimated based on the 10s in the herd. So they came up with a new counting method that allowed them to count less, essentially. Dr Rad 15:22 Right. Okay, gotcha. That's it. It might be there. Yeah, the conversion rate kind of thing. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, clearly something is going on. It's getting mathematical. I don't care for it. Shall we move on to 429 BCE? Because that is all I have. Dr G 15:38 You want to end this year on the high note of bovine counting and we'll leave it at that. Dr Rad 15:43 I think I'd like to I'd like to leave the cows behind. Let's move on. Dr G 15:51 Or as the case may be, all right, well, that wraps up what a year to be in Rome. Dr Rad 16:21 Okay, 429 BCE. Tell me what you got Dr. G. Dr G 16:24 Well, no surprise Dionysius of Halicarnassus is missing. Dr Rad 16:30 I had a hunch. I had a hunch. I've learned from history. Dr G 16:36 I think I have even less source material for 429 that I did for 430. Which is kind of a abysmal, because all I've got is the consul names. And a little snippet from Diodorus Siculus. Who as we know, tries his best, but is often a little bit confused. So I mean, I'll take you through it. We have as our consuls, apparently Hostus Lucretius Tricipitinus, so I hate that name. Tri-cip-i-tinus, yeah. And Lucius Sergius Fidenas. And he's consul for the second time previously consul in 437. And also previously and a little bit more recently, military tribute with consular power in 433. They're the only magistrates I've got names for for this year. Dr Rad 17:33 I don't have any other magistrates either. So strap yourself in this is what Livy tells me happened in 429. Nothing? Nothing happened. Dr G 17:45 What now? Dr Rad 17:46 Yeah, no, not as in not as in he's missing like Dionysius, as in, he actually is there. And he just says, Look, nothing happened. So let's just move straight onto 428. Dr G 17:56 Oh, incredible stuff. Livy. I mean, he loves to talk, I can't believe we found nothing on this time period at all. Well, that means my source becomes very handy. Diodorus Siculus you back in the mix, buddy. So the thing with Diodorus Siculus. And it's been going on for a while in his narrative is that there is a about a 10 year discrepancy or more between the things he tells us and when they happened, and how they might line up with when the Roman say that they happened in Rome. So the annalists may be a little bit out in their count, Diodorus might be a little bit out in his count. But the thing that he's giving us that the Romans aren't giving us yet is he's lining things up according to the Athenian dating system, the eponymous Archon in Athens, and generally speaking historians feel pretty confident about those dates. So it's a bit problematic for all of the Roman writers like Livy to be like, it's 429 when Diodorus is like it's 422. We got some missing years somewhere in there something has happened. But the thing that redeems the Roman analysts and where Diodorus then immediately lets himself down as he gets everybody's names slightly wrong. So Dr Rad 18:15 It doesn't bode well. Dr G 18:26 No, it's not great. I feel like he's probably maybe okay on numbers, but he's not great on his source material. So there's a lot going on. He says the consuls for this year are Opiter Lucretius, 'Opiter' being a name that we've never heard of as a praenomen, so nice try, but probably wrong. And then Lucius Sergius Fideniates which is very close. Yeah, very close. He's just gotten the last one a little bit a little bit smooshed up. Dr Rad 19:51 Yeah, but I'm not giving him a cigar. Dr G 19:53 Yeah, but maybe you overheard at a dinner party. You know, I feel like that's the Diodorus Siculus way where it's like somebody's saying the names to him when he's writing them down. He looks at his notes later. And he's like, What did I even put there? Yes. For the manuscripts. Dr Rad 20:06 Yeah. Look, I agree. Certainly there have been modern academics that have suggested that actually, if we, we probably should shift events around a little bit. And there probably was stuff happening in this year. But just in the version of Livy that we have the way that Livy chose to record things, it seems like a very dull year, indeed. Dr G 20:28 Nothing to report a living well, well, well, Dr Rad 20:33 I think we're gonna go for a record. That means we're on tour 428 BCE. Oh, we're speeding through thing I know, people will think we've had a stroke, Dr G 20:43 Dear listeners, calm yourselves. It's a whole new year again. Dr Rad 21:10 Now, this is a bit of a confusing year, as far as magistrates are concerned. Dr G 21:14 This is very confusing. Yeah. And we've got some, there's a whole bunch of potential issues here. So for instance, one of the things that I was holding on to for a long time, and I think I flagged in many episodes prior to now is that Dionysius of Halicarnassus kicks back in about 428. But I think I was mistaken about that. Having read what is there in the source material, in preparation for this episode, I was like, wait a minute, that doesn't sound like 428 to me at all. So some minor revisions might have to take place. Dr Rad 21:56 That's all right, wait, as long as we know that, we're going to briefly catch a glimpse of him again one day, that's all we need to know right now. Dr G 22:03 He shall return - not in his full glory - but he'll be back limping across the finish line in his fragments. So we have two sets of consuls. In this year, as far as I'm aware we've got which means we have to divide them up between the consul ordinarii, the ones who named the year and the consul suffectii the ones who sort of fill in, in the back catalogue. But I also have and this is where Broughton, bless his soul is always so helpful. Also knows that there is a special commission in this. Yeah. And there's a bunch of people involved in the special commission. So we've got plenty of names, even if we're not really quite sure. What is going on. Dr Rad 22:47 I think I can help you with that maybe actually does provide me with some detail this year. So why don't why don't you tell me who the magistrates are and then I'll try and fill in the blanks. Dr G 22:55 All right, this this sounds good to me. It's a deal. It's a deal. So our first consul is Aulus Cornelius Cossus. Dr Rad 23:05 Not the most handsome man in the world. Dr G 23:10 You may remember him, dear listeners, for being awesome. In 437, where you may have first encountered him, he was merely a military tribune. But this year, he's actually a consul. Dr Rad 23:25 Nice. Dr G 23:26 So you know, I mean, I don't know what he's been doing for the last 10 years, but I'm gonna assume he's even more handsome than before. Dr Rad 23:33 Absolutely handsome men don't need to work hard for political office. Dr G 23:37 I wouldn't assume so especially when women have the vote. Oh, wait. And then we also have Titus Quinctius Poenas Cincinnatus. Another quite familiar name at this point is this is his second bite at the consular cherry previously consul in 431 and also most likely one of the sons with a very famous Cincinnatus. Dr Rad 24:03 I weas gonna say he's not THE Cincinnatus. Dr G 24:06 No. Poenas Cincinnatus is one of the sons of the very famous twice dictator Cincinnatus for those tuning in from Cincinnati and possibly also the younger brother of Lucis Quinctius Cincinnatus who has exactly the same name as the great man himself, so very confusing. So those two are consuls. Then apparently we have another two sets of consuls and that would involve Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus. Dr Rad 24:39 Right. Dr G 24:39 The brother Dr Rad 24:41 Just to makes things even more confusing. Yeah. Dr G 24:44 Two Cincinnatuses consul in the same year. Dr Rad 24:47 Did that make them a Cincinnati? Dr G 24:49 I think it does. I think I think we've reached the Cincinnati moment. It's finally happened and also Aulus Sempronius Atratinus. Dr Rad 25:01 We've heard that name before. Dr G 25:04 Yeah, I mean, it sounds vaguely familiar to me. But I haven't written any notes on that. So I have not done my due diligence with that guy. Dr Rad 25:10 Now, I think I don't think it's necessarily the same person. But I do remember that name of Atratinus. And of course, Sempronius. I mean, the Sempronii are going to pop up again and again. Dr G 25:23 They are going to have a long legacy as patrician family. Dr Rad 25:26 Yeah. Dr G 25:27 So that's our two pairs of consuls. Then we head into our special commission, and I'm excited to learn about what this special commission might be all about. But it involves at least three people. Lucius Sergius Fidenas, who cropped up in the previous year as consul. Quintus Servilius Priscus Fidenas. So, two Fideni in there. Dr Rad 25:54 Yeah. Dr G 25:54 And Mamercus Aemilius Mamercinus, who we also have previously seen was a military tribute with consular power in 438. And also seems to been appointed to investigate the participation of the Fidenates in the raids led by Veii Dr Rad 26:19 Yeah, so that's what I'm going to fill in a little bit for you. So let's get to it. Okay, so we've got our consuls of Cossus, who, as you mentioned, was our ridiculously good looking tribune who managed to defeat an Etruscan King on the battlefield had the whole spolia opima thing going on for him which nobody, but Romulus had managed to do so what a consul. And then we also have Titus Quinctius Poenas Cincinnatus, as you said, now, what starts to happen under their consulship is that the people of Veii start to make moves on Roman territory. A common tale, we have talked about the fact that this time period as much as it seems to be filled with these awesome Hollywood blockbuster epic battles, really seems to be this constant kneeling of Rome and its neighbours and they're constantly trying to get each other's territory and steal each other's stuff. I mean, honestly, it feels a bit like kindergarten sometimes, Dr. G. Now is also rumoured, as you just mentioned that some of the young men from Fidenae were in on these raids. Okay, we're taking part. Lest we forget, the Romans aren't feeling really great about Fidenae right now do you want to remind us why? Dr G 27:40 There seems to be a bit of a problem. So in the history of Fidenae, it starts out as a Roman colony that seems to be it's how it comes into being. So the Romans always consider it theirs. And it's actually a really strategic anchor point to the slight north of Rome, because it sits on the same side of the Tiber as Rome. And this means that they've got a sort of like a defence in the north, that allows them to sort of feel more at ease about where their enemies might be coming at them from. Problem for Rome is that the Fidemae populace decides that they're not having anything to do with Rome anymore, and they decide to throw in their lot with the Etruscans, which makes a lot of sense, the Etruscans are really quite close. They are a much more numerous people. And if you were looking at a side by side comparison of who you should ally with at in this time period, you've got Rome, a single city, a little outpost, run by a bunch of gangsters, versus the Etruscans, who have centuries of history in the region, and a full 12 member kingship going on, there is a lot of power and a lot of history there. They're well embedded in their power structures. So it makes sense that a reasonable offer might have been made to Fidenae and they fluttered their eyelashes at they and said, well yes, of course we'd love to join you. And Veii and the Etruscans now have a strategic position to filter into Rome from a side that they are not usually able to approach the city from. Dr Rad 29:26 Strategically important. Absolutely. So obviously, they have a bitter taste in the room, his mouth and I'm going to tolerate these rumours that are going on there like look, it's one thing for today like we expect it from Veii, but Fidenae after everything we've just been through, I don't know think so. So as you mentioned, a special commission is set up I feel like we need to have some some cry music Don't Don't do too. And so we got Lucius Sergius, Quintus Servilius and Mamercus Aemilius according to Livy who are putting in charge of looking into these rumours, and some men could not account for their whereabouts at the time in question. So I'm definitely putting the Law and Order vibes right now. Dr G 30:12 You don't have an alibi. Why? No, sir. I was sleeping in the field. Dr Rad 30:17 Yeah, they were away from Fidenae. And they but where were they? Who could vouch for their whereabouts? Nobody. That's who. So they are banished to Ostia. Dr G 30:26 I mean, that's pretty disappointing that they couldn't even get a friend to lie for them. Dr Rad 30:32 It would seem to be pretty easy back in this day and age but it's not like they're battling you know, CCTV and mobile phones cell tower was pinging all around. Nonetheless, the goats were quiet that day. And nobody could say where they were. They're banished to Ostia. And I guess Rome is also starting to think about, hmm, what can we do with this whole Fidenae situation? Because clearly, they're still not really on board with this whole idea of being allied with the most awesome city state in all of Italy. Not that it's known as Italy right now, but hey. So they decided they're going to send more settlers and establish what not establish a colony, but reinforce the colony at feed name. And so they take land from the property of people who had died. And they give it to the new colonists. So they're sort of trying to, you know, set them up. Dr G 31:27 Okay, so they shift some things around like, yeah, it's an offworld opportunity. Dr Rad 31:33 Some creative accounting. Dr G 31:34 Yeah, it's gonna be very exciting for you here, take this stuff. Yeah, I think the other thing that might be said for this year is this is the year that Cossus holds the consulship. So for some scholars, and it would make sense to go down this path, this is actually the year where the king of Veii, Lars Tolumnius, is met in battle and is slain directly by Cossus. Dr Rad 32:03 Okay, see, I have that a little bit later in some of the stuff I've written. So definitely the fact that he's consulship. Now is Yeah, definitely. Dr G 32:11 This is yeah, this is one of the candidates is going to pop up. This is going to crop up again. Dr Rad 32:16 And of course, we've also got Mamercus Aemilius too. Yeah. also has those connotations. So yes, this is one of the candidates, but I definitely with my Livy narrative, because you know, Livy is my man. I'm going to plump for a bit later on. But anyway, so we've got to colony set up at Fidenae. And then of course, it's been far too peaceful. And Disney-like for too long, Dr. G, a drought hits are really, really bad drought. Dr G 32:16 I see. Okay, I think these things might crop up in a slightly different year for me. So we'll, we'll see, we'll keep going. Dr Rad 32:54 Okay. Dr G 32:55 I'm interested. Dr Rad 32:55 So Livy tells me that it's not just the fact that it's not raining very much, which is part of the problem, but also what he calls perennial streams, do not have enough water. So I think that probably means that obviously, where people would normally locate their water, it's, you know, they don't usually have any problems from the sources that are drained from from the ground. They're also drying up. Dr G 33:19 Yeah, yeah. So creeks and small rivers are also dry. Yes, it's bad time. Dr Rad 33:25 Yeah, exactly. Now, of course, when we don't have enough water, what happens? People start to die. So basically, the cattle the first today, so they start dying, and you'd find them sort of strewn all around these dried up water sources where they would normally go to get a drink. And they're also starting to die from mange, which is still a disease that can afflict various animals these days. But basically, it's some sort of skin condition, which is caused by these parasitic microscopic mites. And what ends up happening is when you've got all this drought, people are suffering, cattle are suffering, cattle are dying, cattle are diseased, sure enough, our disease spreads from the cattle to the Roman people. So at first, you start to see people who are living in more rural areas and slaves starting to die, but then also it spreads into the city. And it's obviously again, I mean, it feels like only yesterday we were talking about a bad sickness in Rome, but it seems like once again, the Romans are really suffering badly. Dr G 34:28 Yeah, I think we would have to assume that if we're in a situation of this kind of drought, we're looking at years of consequence, not just a single year, like in order to be in a situation where usual water sources are actually dry. This is an ongoing drought that's been happening for some time and it's now getting quite severe. Dr Rad 34:51 Absolutely. Now, the people because they are suffering so badly, they start getting desperate and what In terms foreign superstitions become very popular, and other people in room are starting to take advantage of the situation, presumably to, like make not money like cash, I would presume, but presumably to earn some sort of financial gain or to win influence with people. So some people are pretending to be seers. So sort of taking advantage of that superstitious state desperate state that people are in. And they start talking the room and people into adopting new types of beliefs and weird ways of sacrificing, and it's happening in their homes, the leading citizens start to notice that it's spreading everywhere. And that there are just like strange sacrifices happening all over the city, because the people just, they can't help but think that they've done something to upset the gods, and that the only way that they're going to make it right is if they figure out, you know, what's the right offering? What's the right sacrifice? How can I possibly, you know, restore the balance between our people and the gods. So it seems to be getting out of hand, I'm gonna unpack what this all means in a second. Eventually, the angels are put in charge of ensuring that everyone returns to normal, and I'm using my flesh rabbits religious practices, and that they return to only worshipping Roman gods in a Roman way, God dammit. Dr G 36:25 I see. I mean, it makes a lot of sense that things like this would happen. And it is also quite interesting that the Roman response to this would, is not that sort of expansive, inclusive sort of approach that we see much later in Rome, where they, they really do just sort of absorb and embrace and adapt different modes of worship into their own way of doing things. There seems to be like a distinct moment of crisis, in terms of like ritual practice, brought about by environmental crisis. Dr Rad 37:00 Yes, absolutely. And I think we can sympathise with that these days, even though it might not necessarily be an environmental crisis, although it might be. We see people in tough times these days, often, that's the moment that they find some sort of faith because you know, when push comes to shove, and you're desperate, you might look for answers in places you haven't considered before. Now, that's not to say that the Romans haven't considered being religious for for all, but they just might be looking in into new gods. Now. Dr G 37:28 Well, certainly if the rituals that they've been performing, haven't done the trick, and the drought is getting worse, then it would be a reasonable thing to assume that maybe there's something wrong with the ritual practice. Dr Rad 37:40 Yes. So looking at how academics have interpreted what Livy is saying here, because he doesn't give me any specifics about exactly what kind of practices and that sort of thing, it seems to be assumed that he's referring to the cult of Apollo. So you might have forgotten, but in 431, they dedicated a temple to Apolo, when we're suffering from that really terrible plague, it actually been vowed in for 33. But it wasn't until first 431 that the temple was, you know, up and running. And so it might be something to do with that, Dr G 38:19 Somebody built it wrong. You gotta gotta take that down. Dr Rad 38:23 Well, it might just made it that was like, you know, the new cult on the block. Oh, yeah. So it might be that there is something like that going on. It's possible. That's what they're referring to. And it won't be the last time that we see this kind of outbreak of extreme. Well, what the room is sore is like more extreme or superstitious practices, like people getting a bit caught up in things, we're gonna see this again, when we get to the years of like the Second Punic War and that sort of thing. Now that we've isolated Yeah, the final weird thing I'm going to note is that we of course, have the seemingly plebeian aediles. Now, it's not explicit that this is who they are, but possibly, it's the plebeian aediles who have been put in charge with restoring everything to rights, which might not seem to add up at first, if we think about the kinds of functions that the aediles serve later on in Rome's history where they're more concerned with, I suppose, more prosaic matters of life rather than religious beliefs. But for this earlier period, it does seem that there is potentially a connection for them where there is that sort of religious aspects obviously there I mean, all magistrates obviously, it's not like in the modern day where you have a real separation between politics and religion. Obviously, all magistrates are going to be involved in religious practices somehow, whether it's the rights they have to carry out or whatever, but But we've seen also that it seems like the Aidells were the ones put in charge of the publishing of the 12 Tables, they also possibly were overseeing senatorial records and making sure that they were kept at this point in time. And they therefore might have been seen as valid people to be overseeing how people are observing their religion, I suppose. And that, yeah, they have this sort of religious aspect to their role. Dr G 40:32 Interesting, very interesting. So we've had this mention of aediles, we don't know, we don't have any names. Dr Rad 40:41 We do not. We didn't know. And then so this is all speculation, we don't really know what's going on here. We don't have enough detail. And it's not that they're trying to wipe out the cult of Apollo. They're just trying to make sure that it doesn't get excessive. And there is a balance between what and who the Romans are worshipping. Dr G 41:01 And there's also the broader question of like, what's going on with like, the demarcation of responsibility here. So we have had previous years before now where we've known who the Pontifex Maximus is, yes. And it doesn't happen very often in this early period. But they have been mentioned. And we also get this sense, particularly from very early on, definitely pre Republic, that there are a whole bunch of really quite significant priesthoods that are already in existence, such as the fetiales, such as a whole bunch of sort of priests to Jupiter, priests to Mars, the pontificates as a college, augers. And so the idea that it is in this moment, that the responsibility is delegated to the aediles to try and sort out this issue does raise some questions Dr Rad 42:08 It does. And as I say, it's just a theory. But I think it's, it does sort of highlight that. We honestly can't say a lot for certain about a lot of people's positions at this point in time. It's not that they are they're not obviously a pretty straight as you're saying they're not a pretty soon, as you say it's more that something's been delegated to them, and that they might have been seen as the kind of people that were able to oversee something like this, Dr G 42:32 The idea that this could fall within their remit somehow, Dr Rad 42:36 Potentially, but again, like I think it just sort of even even if this is just a theory, it's just once again, a reminder that we really know so little about exactly what being a consul this period, you know, Dr G 42:47 well, yes. And I think, I mean, it's worth noting that often, this has been simplified as well, like when we talk about consuls in this period, we're not even sure that they're called 'consul'. Dr Rad 42:57 Exactly. That's the question marks and it's just sort of highlights that if you look up what an aedile does, this would probably not be something that I think they would normally associated with when you get later in Rome's history. Dr G 43:10 Yeah, and we're in this period where things nothing is solid. Uncertainty is high. Yes. I think unless you have other details this might be the place to wrap up this episode. Dr Rad 43:24 That is all I have. But I will say that some of the details that I've just given you are going to come back in the most major way you have no idea or maybe you do I don't know if Dionysius is kicked back in or not but the next episode some of these little seeds that are planted they're going to flower into something horrible. Dr G 43:42 Oh, I can't wait to find out well and well if you share your story with me I'll let you know what I discovered. Dr Rad 43:50 All right, Dr. G, that means it is once again time for the Partial Pick all right, Dr. G, so this is the point where we sum up Well normally the year that was but in this case it's the three years that we're and we rate room out of five different categories and in each of those categories, they have the potential to score 10 Golden Eagles Something tells me it's going to be rough today. Dr G 44:23 Yeah, like in a year where nothing happened well all right, so let's see how they do the first category is military clout Dr Rad 44:34 Nope that to stick really Dr G 44:39 I couldn't fight I had the mange Dr Rad 44:43 Yep, so that's that's this year. So what's our next category diplomacy. Okay, well, there's a little bit of that going on here. We've got the truce with the aqueous that's true Dr G 44:53 and they did negotiate some people out of feed and a get you there get you to Ostia will bring it A pack of robots to replace you. I mean, they could be seen as diplomatic. For the Dr Rad 45:05 Romans. I think that is diplomatic. They didn't just outright kill them. Not Yeah. Nice. Yeah. So what, like four or five? I mean, it's not that impressive. Dr G 45:16 Well, I feel like yeah, the diplomacy with feed and a doesn't count for much. I don't think that's maybe a one. But actually coming to it. You truce with the aliens and the volsky. I that actually does sound pretty. Oh, okay. The moleskin is under the bus like that. I retract I retract the A quien treaty. Yeah, true. So I should say so the treaty a truce for eight years? Yeah. Yeah, look, I'm gonna give them about a five. Dr Rad 45:48 Okay, so we'll give them a five. Alright, so we've got five what's our next category? Dr G 45:51 Expansion? No. Dr Rad 45:54 Fear while I feel Dr G 45:56 it's hard to expand under these conditions, they're being pressed from all sides. Dr Rad 46:00 They are and from and internally the cows. Dr G 46:07 Sorry, I was like being pressed internally, I went somewhere else. We're tourists Dr Rad 46:14 can't say that I do. Dr G 46:17 That a lot of winters going on. No specific examples come to mind. They're just they're doing things but uh, and citizen score. Dr Rad 46:27 Look, for the first few years that we talked about the fact that there's a lot of peace that nothing is happening. Dr G 46:33 There's fines being alleviated? I mean, it all sounds pretty good. Really. Dr Rad 46:37 That's pretty good. It's just unfortunately, we've bundled it together with this hideous route, which makes everyone really suffer and makes them ill. Yeah. So it's gonna be balanced out. I think maybe maybe like a four Dr G 46:53 points for reduced fines, taking your way points for the mange Dr Rad 46:58 given that we're not really entirely sure exactly. What that whole fine business involved. It's all very speculative. I'm Dr G 47:06 assuming it benefits the rich more than it benefits the blue bands. But I could be wrong about that. We have Dr Rad 47:13 talked a lot with the people. So I'm presuming it was actually to their benefit and don't don't Dr G 47:19 look for something into things that haven't been good for them before. Dr Rad 47:23 This is true. But the fact that Libby says the tributes of the collapse were the ones that are originally coming up with it. And then the console stole their idea. And Dr G 47:32 maybe, well, maybe a four then as you say, Dr Rad 47:37 Okay, well that actually you know what, it's better than I thought although not great when you consider it three years rolled into one cart with a total of nine golden eagles. Dr. G. Dr G 47:48 Wow, Rome, you've really excelled? Dr Rad 47:53 Yeah, yeah. Definitely have Hey, you know what, there? It's definitely better than some of the other years we've dealt with in the 40s. I thought that the December it was a bad period, but actually the full 30s have been rough. Dr G 48:07 They have I mean, between like the absence of source material and just like hit after hit to the Roman psyche. It's been a tough time. Dr Rad 48:17 Well, that's a G, there's no one I would rather talk about nothing. We're Dr G 48:23 gonna take that as a compliment. Dr Rad 48:25 Absolutely. Join us next time for the podcast about nothing. Oh, Dr G 48:30 from the foundation to nothing. Dr Rad 48:44 Thank you for listening to this episode of the partial historians. You can find our sources, sound credits and automated transcripts in our show notes. You too can support our show and help us to produce more intriguing content about the ancient world by becoming a Patreon. In return, you receive exclusive early access to our special episodes. Today, we'd like to give a special shout out to some of our newest Patreon, Daniel, Nicole, Vincent and Michael. There are other ways that you can support our show. We have merchandise a collaboration with Bridget Clark on Gumroad. And we now also have a book and you can find all the details of that on the highlands press website as well as our website if you'd like to purchase a copy of Rex, the seven kings of Rome, our popular history. However, if you are travel short of denari, we would massively appreciate it. If you told someone about the show. That kind of recommendation is worth its weight in gold. Until next time, we are yours in ancient Rome. Hey, Dr. Chi, would you know what to do if a fella started floating in the fire before you? Dr G 50:29 Probably not? Dr Rad 50:32 Well, then have I got the book for you? Did you know that we wrote a book? Dr G 50:37 What we wrote a book? No way. Dr Rad 50:39 I think we wrote a book. Yeah, absolutely. We read a book and it's called Rex, that seven kings of Rome. Dr G 50:47 Oh, that's right. The details are starting to come back to me now. Yes, yes, the Regal period. What a time for the Romans to be alive. And also what a time for historians to revisit and to consider the source material. Dr Rad 51:00 Absolutely. So if you're interested in picking up a copy of our popular history of the Roman monarchy, please head over to the highlands press website. Dr G 51:10 That's Highlands, Dash press.com Dr Rad 51:15 It'd be a great way to show your support of the show and to get a great read Transcribed by https://otter.ai